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Jean Grey has absorbed the full power of the Phoenix Force (assume is the maximum power Phoenix) vs The strongest manifestation of Ion which might be classic Ion with Kyle (not sure)

Maximum power of Phoenix vs Maximum power Ion

Arena: Deep Space

To the death

No prep

IMO Phoenix is going to ruin Ion but idk too much about Ion. So tell me i'm wrong and debate!

Phoenix doesnt hold a candle to kyle wielding the ion force+starheart.

Looked up this starheart http://en.dcdatabaseproject.com/Starheart doesn't seem too impressive...

anyone have a compelling argument?

Classic Ion could control energy completely, even to the degree that he could travel time laterally and be countless places simultaneously. The power itself was even referred to as that of a god when Nero tried to obtain it first.

Current Ion power is nothing more than pure green lantern power amped without need for recharge. Where as classic was more like then entire Green Lantern Corps, Central Power Battery, and The Guardian's life forces merged together.

White Crown Phoenix IMO is the only one that could even bring a real fight to an experienced Classic Ion. And god only knows who would win that. So stalemate IMO.

P.S. Pretty sure I make this thread when I first started here.


Nope wasn't me but still done plenty of times! http://www.killermovies.com/forums/search.php?action=showresults&q=title%3A%28Ion+vs+Phoenix%29&showposts=0

Ion.

The starheart is very impressive,but im mainly talking about classic ion+the starheart which=phoenix getting raped.

If this is classic Ion, then Ion for the win. Current Ion gets stomped.

Whoops about the repeat thread but i briefly looked over the other thread seems like Ion's greatest feat is time, matter, and energy manipulation. Jean can do all that jazz and much much more. Jean is one with the Phoenix Force the power of creation in the marvel universe what is Ion going to do? I think there is alot of support of Ion in the forums but none have said a credible/possible way Ion can hurt Phoenix.

Parallax who is alot weaker then classic kyle ion was a universal destroyer/multiversal maker who fought the spectre just fine,go read some comics really cause phoenix has no feats whatsoever to even remotely come close to stalemating classic ion let alone beating him.

Originally posted by Lord Feron

Jean is one with the Phoenix Force the power of creation in the marvel universe

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Parallax who is alot weaker then classic kyle ion was a universal destroyer/multiversal maker who fought the spectre just fine,go read some comics really cause phoenix has no feats whatsoever to even remotely come close to stalemating classic ion let alone beating him.

He also was running low on power after that fight with the Spectre and was stopped by an arrow to the chest. Not to mention all the power he released to recreate the universe was absorbed and used to undo what he was trying to do while he was doing it. Waverider protected everybody he gathered by transporting them outside of time which is where the full power of the Phoenix resides. The Phoenix is the spark that precedes and ignites the big bang, finally consuming all that is.

Originally posted by LordKaos

The Phoenix is the spark that precedes and ignites the big bang,

finally consuming all that is.

That's hyperbolic comedy that's finally been put to rest on panel in FF#531-532. (2006)

Phoenix (any version) has never created even a single Universe on panel,
so PF being the "spark that ignites" anything is a falacy that was never proven on panel,
and finally dismissed on panel likewise.



Here's the REAL "Spark" that ignites the creation of the Marvel Universe through the Big Bang:

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/2412/f3wq4.th.jpg

......................................................................................


Not only did the Alien Entity fold back all of Marvel's Space/Time

to it's Pre-Big Bang Void:

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/3356/f4qu8.th.jpg

......................................................................................


But the Alien Entity/Reed created the "Spark" that ignites the Fires/Engines of Creation:

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/6674/f5uu7.th.jpg

......................................................................................


And indeed, the Alien Entity even manipulated the "Spark" into motion:

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/3997/f6hs0.th.jpg

"Let there be Light ... let the Universe itself ... become"

......................................................................................

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/7080/ae1ra7.th.jpg

......................................................................................


Also,
Phoenix (any version) has NEVER destroyed all that is,
not even a single Multiverse,
not even two Universes simultaneously,
so Phoenix consuming "all that is" ... is simply more exaggerated hyperbole.

Phoenix has only destroyed a single Alternate Universe twice,
both occasions took place in What if issues.

If it hadn't been stated on panel by the Watcher (you seem to respect his knowledge and power any other time) within 616 (and by Reed), I'd beg to differ but since it is, I don't have to. Jim Jaspers never warped the omniverse but because Merlyn says he is a threat to it, you say he can. FYI Merlyn and Roma think everything is a threat to the omniverse or their roles as guardians of it would never have be to mentioned in the books. P.S. you don't have to come in here with scans of Merlyn, Japsers or any of that other crap as it would have nothing to do with the thread it was just an example. I've had you on ignore for countless months, I just thought reading your response might provide me with amusement it hasn't.

Originally posted by LordKaos

If it hadn't been stated on panel by the Watcher (you seem to respect his knowledge and power any other time) within 616 (and by Reed), I'd beg to differ but since it is, I don't have to.
So according to your logic,
hyperbolic statements > actual On Panel depictions of the action taking place.

Got it. durlaugh

Watcher and Reed stated that, (as in TALK, TALK, TALK)

While the Alien Entity (ON PANEL) actually did CREATE the "Spark" (in Reed's face)
AE did manipulate the "Spark" into initiating the Engines/Fires of Creation,
AE did merge with the Engines/Fires of Creation,
AE did remake the entire Marvel Universe using Reed's mind as a guide.
Officially making the Alien Entity the embodiment of the Engines/Fires of Creation,
who also creates the "Spark" that ignites the same Engines/Fires of Creation (Big Bang)


But be my guess and willfully ignore what I just PROVED up top with undeniable PROOF!


I CHALLENGE you to show us Phoenix "sparking" the creation of the Marvel Universe,
since that will be impossible,
how about a single Universe.

Originally posted by LordKaos

Jim Jaspers never warped the omniverse
but because Merlyn says he is a threat to it, you say he can.

Jaspers' 616's weaker counter-part (Jaspers 238)
actually thwarted Omniversal Matrix/Merlyn's power when he tried stopping J's warp.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8343/jjgo1.th.jpg


Merlyn fused the entire Omniverse into tiny crystals
to erase any Universe in the Omniverse he (or Roma/Staturnyne) wishes,
with the Celestial Nullifier:

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1056/r8fu4.th.jpg

"This Crystal embodies the LifeForce of your Home Dimension,
by breaking it, that Entire Portion of the Omniverse CEASES TO EXIST"


This isn't hyperbole either,
we've seen the Celestial Nullifier in action on panel (got those scans too if you wish)

So Matrix/Merlyn absolute Omniversal power < Jaspers 238
Jaspers 238 < Jaspers 616
it ain't that hard to tell.
..................................................................................


Omniversal warping by Jaspers!

Cobweb is psychically connected to her Past and Future selves,
she tapped into one of her possible Future-selves:

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/1046/25152532kp1.th.jpg

These are NOT cheesy visions of some future,
Cobweb literally connects to her counter-parts residing in even possible Futures,
so what Cobweb saw,
would DEFINITELY have happened.

Anyway, guess what she witnessed,
had Jaspers not been stopped by his personal anti-JJ plot device. (the Fury)

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/9255/99178716vp9.th.jpg

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/7533/48392736kk4.th.jpg

..................................................................................

That above is Jaspers canceling the entire Omniverse,
just like Omniversal Matrix/Merlyn predicted would happen if he wasn't stopped:

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/1219/m17iu3.th.jpg

..................................................................................

Originally posted by LordKaos

FYI Merlyn and Roma think everything is a threat to the omniverse or their roles as guardians of it would never have be to mentioned in the books.
That's funny,
because to date,
only Jaspers and a Cosmic Containment Unit,
has been a threat to the Omniverse according to Merlyn/Roma.

And the CCU WAS indeed about to collapse the Omniverse on panel,
and Cobweb saw Jaspers literally doing it in a future where he wasn't stopped
by the only thing that ever defeated Jaspers 616 (Fury)

Originally posted by LordKaos

P.S. you don't have to come in here with scans of Merlyn, Japsers or any of that other crap as it would have nothing to do with the thread it was just an example.
I'll do what I wish, thanx.

Originally posted by LordKaos

I've had you on ignore for countless months,

I just thought reading your response might provide me with amusement it hasn't.
Gibberish.

You're just upset cause you just got proven wrong lovely. (with On Panel PROOF)

Your Phoenix fanboyism is not that amusing either son.

Originally posted by Mr Master
So according to your logic,
hyperbolic statements > actual On Panel depictions of the action taking place.

Got it. durlaugh

Watcher and Reed stated that, (as in TALK, TALK, TALK)

While the Alien Entity (ON PANEL) actually did CREATE the "Spark" (in Reed's face)
AE did manipulate the "Spark" into initiating the Engines/Fires of Creation,
AE did merge with the Engines/Fires of Creation,
AE did remake the entire Marvel Universe using Reed's mind as a guide.
Officially making the Alien Entity the embodiment of the Engines/Fires of Creation,
who also creates the "Spark" that ignites the same Engines/Fires of Creation (Big Bang)


But be my guess and willfully ignore what I just PROVED up top with undeniable PROOF!


I CHALLENGE you to show us Phoenix "sparking" the creation of the Marvel Universe,
since that will be impossible,
how about a single Universe.



Jaspers' 616's weaker counter-part (Jaspers 238)
actually thwarted Omniversal Matrix/Merlyn's power when he tried stopping J's warp.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8343/jjgo1.th.jpg


Merlyn fused the entire Omniverse into tiny crystals
to erase any Universe in the Omniverse he (or Roma/Staturnyne) wishes,
with the Celestial Nullifier:

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1056/r8fu4.th.jpg

"This Crystal embodies the LifeForce of your Home Dimension,
by breaking it, that Entire Portion of the Omniverse CEASES TO EXIST"


This isn't hyperbole either,
we've seen the Celestial Nullifier in action on panel (got those scans too if you wish)

So Matrix/Merlyn absolute Omniversal power < Jaspers 238
Jaspers 238 < Jaspers 616
it ain't that hard to tell.
..................................................................................


Omniversal warping by Jaspers!

Cobweb is psychically connected to her Past and Future selves,
she tapped into one of her possible Future-selves:

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/1046/25152532kp1.th.jpg

These are NOT cheesy visions of some future,
Cobweb literally connects to her counter-parts residing in even possible Futures,
so what Cobweb saw,
would DEFINITELY have happened.

Anyway, guess what she witnessed,
had Jaspers not been stopped by his personal anti-JJ plot device. (the Fury)

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/9255/99178716vp9.th.jpg

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/7533/48392736kk4.th.jpg

..................................................................................

That above is Jaspers canceling the entire Omniverse,
just like Omniversal Matrix/Merlyn predicted would happen if he wasn't stopped:

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/1219/m17iu3.th.jpg

..................................................................................


That's funny,
because to date,
only Jaspers and a Cosmic Containment Unit,
has been a threat to the Omniverse according to Merlyn/Roma.

And the CCU WAS indeed about to collapse the Omniverse on panel,
and Cobweb saw Jaspers literally doing it in a future where he wasn't stopped
by the only thing that ever defeated Jaspers 616 (Fury)


I'll do what I wish, thanx.


Gibberish.

You're just upset cause you just got proven wrong lovely. (with On Panel PROOF)

Your Phoenix fanboyism is not that amusing either son. Phoenix FTW

WC Phoenix also has power over time, Phoenix has been shown to be capable of destroying a universe, has Ion?

Phoenix

Ion.

Originally posted by Estacado
Ion.

Sweet av and sig pal.

Ion FTW.

Originally posted by Terryc250
WC Phoenix also has power over time, Phoenix has been shown to be capable of destroying a universe, has Ion?
Like I said earlier,someone who is weaker then classic ion was a universe destroyer/multiverse maker and someone who fought the spectre for a prolonged period,phoenix gets stomped.

I got a question is Ion stronger then Pyrallax? If so then I believe that Ion can win. Although if its the same Ion that fought Superman Prime then Omf forgetabout it

Originally posted by xJLxKing
I got a question is Ion stronger then Pyrallax? If so then I believe that Ion can win. Although if its the same Ion that fought Superman Prime then Omf forgetabout it

It's not the new Ion. The thread creator stated that we're using the most powerful forms of both characters.

Oh then Ion can beat Pheonix

Not really,he didnt have prep when he droped the spectre or when all the energy he used to make the new universe got turned against him,if your going to bring up external things phoenix gets her power from other people...parallax is easily in the universe destroying/making/more level and ion is way way above him.

Phoenix takes energy from future generations to power herself doesnt she?,shes also never done universal destruction level feats without the whitehot room,parallax did use entropy to help bring the universe to the end point(even though he could have destroyed it himself)he did beat time trapper on his own power,he managed to practically stalemate a spectre who was actually trying to judge him and he had all the energy he spent making the new universe turned on him and only then did spectre win,its quite obvious he really didnt need entropy to do anything,ion is the central battery+starheart and ion entity instead of fear entity(which might also hamper the central battery energy)its quite easy to see him stomp phoenix.

Ion.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
And what feats post that are anywhere close to destroying a universe/creating one,having that energy thrown back at yourself,and fighting the mother ****ing spectre...o yea none,phoenix is so overhyped and overrated it makes me sick she has like 2 actual good feats and everyone likes to put her on this ridiculous eternity+level pedestial.
She is strong. She just doesn't want to use a lot of power because she destroy future generations

Is the Spectre like Galactus or closer to the Living Tribunal. I know the spectre is crazy powerful.. what can he be compared to in marvel. In Phoenix respect thread it shows that Is the birth of reality and shapes reality to its own desires. Reality > Universes. She is omniversal capabe of doing fewats has humbled galactus (under what circumstances im not sure) but i have seen them one on one and Galactus self proclaimed his lose. Since Phoenix has virtually (i say vitually because she can consume all reality to acheive something but I don't think that energy is needed for anything but maybe trying to take on the infinites..anyway i digress) unlimited power and is connected with all. He says something like "I am exhausted from this battle and you havent even felt tired once." Galactus needs to go places and feed. Phoenix like someone else said is simple tapping into her energies of reality to acheive her goal.. hence the whole consuming future generation talk that galactus had with Phoenix. So She can beat Galactus and he is mad uber lol. The power of Ion is the Central battery power of Oa or something yeah? Is that comparable to the omniversal ho0me of the White room? To me ion can do what he wants with universe and phoenix is the actual life energy of all creation and destruction.

White Phoenix of Crown

Hey GS

Most powerful form of the Phoenix

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Phoenix takes energy from future generations to power herself doesnt she?,shes also never done universal destruction level feats without the whitehot room,parallax did use entropy to help bring the universe to the end point(even though he could have destroyed it himself)he did beat time trapper on his own power,he managed to practically stalemate a spectre who was actually trying to judge him and he had all the energy he spent making the new universe turned on him and only then did spectre win,its quite obvious he really didnt need entropy to do anything,ion is the central battery+starheart and ion entity instead of fear entity(which might also hamper the central battery energy)its quite easy to see him stomp phoenix.


1) The Phoenix Force itself is the life force of reality. The very energies of the Big Bang turned sentient. However universes in Marvel are closed systems. After the Big Bang, that is it, everything within a reality stems from the Big Bang. Life feeds on life, energy is transferred not created anew. By leaving its formless state and taking on sentience, the Phoenix avatar became a life form itself within that closed system and was therefore drawing those life energies back into itself, thereby depriving future generations of life. Thats what Galactus was saying to her. Before she was the sum of life, but as a sentient entity unto itself it was taking away fromn that whicj it celebrated, life!

That is why the Phoenix avatar abandoned sentience and just let Rachel tap into its power without it itself taking control.

So whereas Parallax was utilising the powers of others, the Force was only guilty of taking awai ITS OWN POWER from the system.

2)Parallax as stated on panel was using chronal energies to bring about a new reality. He was basically rewinding time and making alterations here and there to events to make events turn out how he wished. I.e Coast City wouldnt have been destroyed.

http://www.dccomics.com/heroes_and_villains/?hv=origin_stories/parallax&p=2

"Hal Jordan unleashed violence in a vain attempt to turn back time and restore coast city to life"

Rewinding and replaying time, making modifications here and there to events isnt as impressive as atomic control of an entire reality within the palm of your hand.

Parallax used Entropy to wipe out reality, not his own power and then he never recreated a reality off of his own back, he rewound time and intended to make changes to events, but he was defeated before he could achieve his goal.

Phoenix FTW

Originally posted by guy222
Hey GS

Most powerful form of the Phoenix
The strongest Form of Phoenix is Dark Phoenix

Originally posted by xJLxKing
The strongest Form of Phoenix is Dark Phoenix

Nah. Thats the most unpredictable and out of control version of Phoenix.

The form with the highest level feats is the White Phoenix of Crown

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Nah. Thats the most unpredictable and out of control version of Phoenix.

The form with the highest level feats is the White Phoenix of Crown
Even though it was stated?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Even though it was stated?

By what source?

The best thing Jean did when she went through the whole Dark Phoenix thing was absorb the energy of a sun and blow up a Shiar warship.

The White Phoenix telekinetically cut away a contaminated future from the rest of reality, before materializing 616 within her palm and then she peered into it and changed events within, so that the future she cut away would never come about.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
By what source?

The best thing Jean did when she went through the whole Dark Phoenix thing was absorb the energy of a sun and blow up a Shiar warship.

The White Phoenix telekinetically cut away a contaminated future from the rest of reality, before materializing 616 within her palm and then she peered into it and changed events within, so that the future she cut away would never come about.
If we go by feats then you are right but if we go by statement then DP. They do say it in the Dark Phoenix Sage, and they have a website which is pretty accurate

Originally posted by xJLxKing
If we go by feats then you are right but if we go by statement then DP. They do say it in the Dark Phoenix Sage, and they have a website which is pretty accurate

The Dark Phoenix Saga dates back to the late 70's early 80's. The White Phoenix has been seen as recently as December. More recent stuff is going to supercede whats come before.

Galactus has been stated to be the most powerful being back in the 60's, should we accept that statement despite consistent showings since contradicting it?

On top of that Marvel.com bios are fan written and edited. Go by on panel events and handbooks.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Dark Phoenix Saga dates back to the late 70's early 80's. The White Phoenix has been seen as recently as December. More recent stuff is going to supercede whats come before.

Galactus has been stated to be the most powerful being back in the 60's, should we accept that statement despite consistent showings since contradicting it?

On top of that Marvel.com bios are fan written and edited. Go by on panel events and handbooks.
Actually the website i used doesn't use fanboyism of any kind. In fact it has WPOTC. Although i cant seem to locate it now. Its on wikepedia tho

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Actually the website i used doesn't use fanboyism of any kind. In fact it has WPOTC. Although i cant seem to locate it now. Its on wikepedia tho

The only sources you can trust are those written by marvel staff. So handbooks and comics, otherwise you're just getting an average joes opinion and we get enough of that on these forums.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The only sources you can trust are those written by marvel staff. So handbooks and comics, otherwise you're just getting an average joes opinion and we get enough of that on these forums.
true but i remember why they stated it though. Its because of her emotions.
can you possible some me something about white pheonix i dont know much

Originally posted by xJLxKing
true but i remember why they stated it though. Its because of her emotions. But then i could go use Flash or Dreamweaver and within the hour make up a website and say White Phoenix is the strongest. Would you then believe my average joe opinion because i put it on a website?

Trust me. Go by official sources as theyre the only ones which truly represent Marvels opinion on the matter.

The comics show the White Phoenix to have had the highest showings so far.

To be honest, i dont believe it was stated anywhere officially that the different colours had anything to do with powers anyway. The colours seem more to do with emotional state and mental wellbeing.

Green seems to be the good, benevolent Phoenix somewhat in control.

Red is the the fiery passionate Phoenix who lets her emotions control her.

White seems to be a complete, mentally balanced Jean who has completed her Phoenix work and is ready for the White Hot Room.

maybe i am wrong

I wonder how many more posts it's going to take until GS, and MM start debating each other...

I'd say less than 40 posts (or 2 pages). Probably 15 posts...

Jean Grey w/PF

http://i110.imagethrust.com/t/829001/newxmen148pyrate12.jpg

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
And what feats post that are anywhere close to destroying a universe/creating one,having that energy thrown back at yourself,and fighting the mother ****ing spectre...o yea none,phoenix is so overhyped and overrated it makes me sick she has like 2 actual good feats and everyone likes to put her on this ridiculous eternity+level pedestial.

As aforementioned, Parallaxs feats arent as good as you thought they were. Entropy wiped out reality, Parallax merely triggered that.

Parallax didnt create a new universe from scratch. He rewound time and attempted to edit events as he brought time back to the present all in an effort to stop Coast City's destruction. (thereby making use of what was already created)

Nice cosmic feat. Not the best.

Phoenix telekinetically cut away a future of 616 like it was physical matter, thereby warping the laws of space/time on a massive scale. She then went on to materialise the remaining timeline within the palm of her hand.

Manipulating a universe down to its component parts, materializing it from one place to another is far more impressive than just destroying one. Its a whole level beyond that and takes far more power and control. Any top cosmic can blow up a reality, but to be able to manipulate an atomic structure on a universe scale, casually in the palm of your hand? Only the cream of the crop.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
I wonder how many more posts it's going to take until GS, and MM start debating each other...

I'd say less than 40 posts (or 2 pages). Probably 15 posts...

It will start with Here Comes Tomorrows.

Originally posted by id369
It will start with Here Comes Tomorrows.


I'm not going to let it get to that again. Trust me! lol

All thats relevant from HCT for this debate is the fact that Jean had total telekinetic control of a universe right down to the atomic level and her last handbook entry confirmed this as part of her powerset by talking of her ability to manipulate atomic structures on a universal scale.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
y talking of her ability to manipulate atomic structures on a universal scale.

And also written that her full power scope is yet to be seen.

Originally posted by Xplosive
And also written that her full power scope is yet to be seen.

i agree with this

Originally posted by Xplosive
And also written that her full power scope is yet to be seen.

Doesn't contribute much to this fight though does it

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
Doesn't contribute much to this fight though does it

I agree with this comment

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

The White Phoenix telekinetically cut away a contaminated future from the rest of reality,
before materializing 616 within her palm and then she peered into it and changed events within,
so that the future she cut away would never come about.
durlaugh

Originally posted by Mr Master
durlaugh

Not gonna get into all of the ins and outs of whether you believe it was 616 or not, either way Phoenix manipulated the matter of an entire universe.

I dont care whether you believe it was 616 or not because for the purpose of this argument it really doesnt matter.

Even if it was an alternate future, thats merely the universe in a future state down the timeline. Still a universe, still a whole load of matter.

Marvel agrees as shown by their updated bio listing telekinetic control of atomic structures on a universal scale as part of her powerset.

Thats all that matters here.


Cool.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I'm not going to let it get to that again. Trust me! lol

All thats relevant from HCT for this debate is the fact that Jean had total telekinetic control of a universe right down to the atomic level and her last handbook entry confirmed this as part of her powerset by talking of her ability to manipulate atomic structures on a universal scale.
Comic book and the handbook state it vary clearly. To deny it would be using bush league argument, with malicious interpretation in mind.

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
Doesn't contribute much to this fight though does it
Well members do get well into what have they done, versus how they perform in battle. But I agree that in battle demonstration should be the focal point, with feats as a substitute.

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
Doesn't contribute much to this fight though does it

It doesn't, but the way she manipulated the universe, you could tell that she can do more.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Not gonna get into all of the ins and outs of whether you believe it was 616 or not, either way Phoenix manipulated the matter of an entire universe.

I dont care whether you believe it was 616 or not because for the purpose of this argument it really doesnt matter.

Even if it was an alternate future, thats merely the universe in a future state down the timeline. Still a universe, still a whole load of matter.

Marvel agrees as shown by their updated bio listing telekinetic control of atomic structures on a universal scale as part of her powerset.

Thats all that matters here.
I agree, WC Phoenix can repair a Timeline atomically (but so far, ONLY withIN the WHR)

I agree, a Timeline is a Universe.

So yes, obviously Phoenix is an absolute Universal power,
I've never demeaned that truth,
I only object to exaggerations.

Like Phoenix holding 616,
like Phoenix containing the power of Mkraan,
like Phoenix projecting the Excalibur Tower without a plot device (Interface Alignment)
or the biggest bull shit to date ... Phoenix is Multiversal.
Other than that, I myself have proven Phoenix to be a Universal power,
so no one can say I've ever said otherwise.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I agree, WC Phoenix can repair a Timeline atomically (but so far, ONLY withIN the WHR)

I agree, a Timeline is a Universe.

So yes, obviously Phoenix is an absolute Universal power,
I've never demeaned that truth,
I only object to exaggerations.

Like Phoenix holding 616,
like Phoenix containing the power of Mkraan,
like Phoenix projecting the Excalibur Tower without a plot device (Interface Alignment)

Other than that, I myself have proven Phoenix to be a Universal power,
so no one can say I've ever said otherwise.

The "only in the WHR" comment is irrelevant because the feat as stated was achieved through her telekinesis, NOT some imagined powerup she received by stepping into the crystal.

All whats stated on panel is that she has telekinetic control of all of those atoms. Nothing about a power boost therefore your comment is without merit.

Further highlighting the redundancy of that comment is the fact that her ability to perform such a feat via telekinesis was listed in her official bio within the abilities section.

So lets have no more talk of that here ok? Cool.

I cant be bothered to get into all of the other things you mentioned as theyre not necessary to do well in this debate. Responding to each of those issues just provides you with an excuse to copy and paste your old arguments into this thread. Not a chance!

Good afternoon mate

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The "only in the WHR" comment is irrelevant because the feat as stated was achieved through her telekinesis, NOT some imagined powerup she received by stepping into the crystal.

All whats stated on panel is that she has telekinetic control of all of those atoms. Nothing about a power boost therefore your comment is without merit.

Further highlighting the redundancy of that comment is the fact that her ability to perform such a feat via telekinesis was listed in her official bio within the abilities section.

So lets have no more talk of that here ok? Cool.

I cant be bothered to get into all of the other things you mentioned as theyre not necessary to do well in this debate. Responding to each of those issues just provides you with an excuse to copy and paste your old arguments into this thread. Not a chance!

Good afternoon mate

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

The "only in the WHR" comment is irrelevant because the feat as stated was achieved through her telekinesis,
NOT some imagined powerup she received by stepping into the crystal.
I never said she got a powerup,
I said she's only been able to perform that task withIN the WHR on panel,
and that's a fact.

The WHR is a HOSPITAL for Universes:

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/6773/hoskj5.th.jpg

"Hospital White Hot"


So the question is, can Jean repair a Timeline (atomically) outside of this HOSPITAL? (WHR)

You have NO proof she can, but this is proof that as far as we know,
this is the only way for her to accomplish this task.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm


All whats stated on panel is that she has telekinetic control of all of those atoms. Nothing about a power boost therefore your comment is without merit.
All whats stated on panel is that she did it withIN a Hospital. (WHR)

Nice try.

Can a surgeon operate outside a hospital without his tools?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Further highlighting the redundancy of that comment is the fact that her ability to perform such a feat via telekinesis was listed in her official bio within the abilities section.
What do I care what a bio states,
if it's not proven On Panel it's bio hyperbole.

Just like Phoenix saved Galactus.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

I cant be bothered to get into all of the other things you mentioned as theyre not necessary to do well in this debate. Responding to each of those issues just provides you with an excuse to copy and paste your old arguments into this thread. Not a chance!
Solidified proof is a pain.

BEFORE Jean entered the White Hot Room as stated, she TELEKINETICALLY amputated the future and absorbed it into the White Hot Room as shown on panel and as supported in many bios where the point is stated.

That alone sets the precedence for her to again do amazing things with her telekinesis, and that she does. ALL that is mentioned on panel is that the feat was achieved via telekinesis. Nothing about an imaginary powerup, therefore talking about the existence of one is totally unsupported mate.

Marvels bios support the comic in their assessment that the universal scale feat was achieved by telekinesis as that is ALL that is shown.

Sorry mate, you win some lose some. Lets get back on with the debate now.

Originally posted by Mr Master



.

Can a surgeon operate outside a hospital without his tools?



not quite the same thing becaus she always has her tools with her (her mind) but
yes thay can with a swiss army knife. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracheotomy
should thay? no
the out come might not be as pretty but thay can still do it

Originally posted by Xplosive



Dude, do your own research and stop yankin crap from a respect thread.

Where, ANYWHERE in that scan,
do you see Phoenix atomically manipulating that Timeline?

Where, ANYWHERE in that scan,
do you see Phoenix holding that Timeline in her hands?

Where, ANYWHERE in that scan,
do you see Phoenix stopping a Universal nullifier from doing it's job?


She stopped some nukes in that scan. uhh, that's it.
You know how many beings have prevented the eradication of a Universe,
without the need to manipulate said Universe?

Please.

Originally posted by Mr Master


Dude, do your own research and stop yankin crap from a respect thread.

Where, ANYWHERE in that scan,
do you see Phoenix atomically manipulating that Timeline?

Where, ANYWHERE in that scan,
do you see Phoenix holding that Timeline in her hands?

Where, ANYWHERE in that scan,
do you see Phoenix stopping a Universal nullifier from doing it's job?


She stopped some nukes in that scan. uhh, that's it.
You know how many beings have prevented the eradication of a Universe,
without the need to manipulate said Universe?

Please.

Where anywhere in a Marvel comic is it stated Phoenix got a powerup within the crystal which enabled her to manipulate the universes atomic structure?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Where anywhere in a Marvel comic is it stated Phoenix got a powerup within the crystal which enabled her to manipulate the universes atomic structure?

OUch! Sup GS

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

BEFORE Jean entered the White Hot Room as stated,
she TELEKINETICALLY amputated the future and absorbed it into the White Hot Room as shown on panel and as supported in many bios where the point is stated.
Bull, Jean extracted Sublime from Beast's body, nothing more,
this did amputate the Future, but she never absorbed anything into the WHR,
then, when she enters the WHR, the amputated Future is in her hands.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

That alone sets the precedence for her to again do amazing things with her telekinesis, and that she does. ALL that is mentioned on panel is that the feat was achieved via telekinesis. Nothing about an imaginary powerup, therefore talking about the existence of one is totally unsupported mate.
You're still on this imaginary powerup, when I already explained myself,
I guess when there's no turn to take,
you repeat yourself in an attempt to sway attentions elsewhere.

Again,

I never said she got a powerup,
I said she's only been able to perform that task withIN the WHR on panel,
and that's a fact.

The WHR is a HOSPITAL for Universes:

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/6773/hoskj5.th.jpg

"Hospital White Hot"


So the question is, can Jean repair a Timeline (atomically) outside of this HOSPITAL? (WHR)

You have NO proof she can, but this is proof that as far as we know,
this is the only way for her to accomplish this task.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Marvels bios support the comic in their assessment that the universal scale feat was achieved by telekinesis as that is ALL that is shown.
What's shown on panel is Jean atomically repairing that Timeline withIN the WHR,
the WHR is a HOSPITAL for realities.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Sorry mate, you win some lose some.
Don't cry, I'll send you a cookie.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Where anywhere in a Marvel comic is it stated Phoenix got a powerup within the crystal which enabled her to manipulate the universes atomic structure?
Third time's a charm.
Originally posted by Mr Master

Again,

I never said she got a powerup,

I said she's only been able to perform that task withIN the WHR on panel,
and that's a fact.

The WHR is a HOSPITAL for Universes:

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/6773/hoskj5.th.jpg

"Hospital White Hot"
yawn

Originally posted by Mr Master


Dude, do your own research and stop yankin crap from a respect thread.

Where, ANYWHERE in that scan,
do you see Phoenix atomically manipulating that Timeline?

Where, ANYWHERE in that scan,
do you see Phoenix holding that Timeline in her hands?

Where, ANYWHERE in that scan,
do you see Phoenix stopping a Universal nullifier from doing it's job?


She stopped some nukes in that scan. uhh, that's it.
You know how many beings have prevented the eradication of a Universe,
without the need to manipulate said Universe?

Please.


What are you babbling about? First you claim that the phoenix can NOT, do anything to an entire time line, with out resorting to the White Hot Room.

Some one comes along an presents the evidence that refutes your previous comment. And you only abrupt with more frustrated comments?

My how the mighty fall in despair.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Bull, Jean extracted Sublime from Beast's body, nothing more,
this did amputate the Future, but she never absorbed anything into the WHR,
then, when she enters the WHR, the amputated Future is in her hands.


You're still on this imaginary powerup, when I already explained myself,
I guess when there's no turn to take,
you repeat yourself in an attempt to sway attentions elsewhere.

Again,

I never said she got a powerup,
I said she's only been able to perform that task withIN the WHR on panel,
and that's a fact.

The WHR is a HOSPITAL for Universes:


Jean extracted Sublime from reality and then stated she had to telekinetically amputate that future, as she states that, the Here Comes Tomorrow reality disappearred and Jean was outside the crystal, outside the WHR.

On panel Jean used her telekinesis to manipulate the atoms of the universe. She performed this feat from the WHR, however on panel the feat was attributed to her telekinesis therefore your comment about "only in the WHR" is irrelevant.

Please get over it.

Originally posted by id369

What are you babbling about?
What are you babbling about?

See, that's easy.

Originally posted by id369

First you claim that the phoenix can NOT,
do anything to an entire time line, with out resorting to the White Hot Room.

Some one comes along an presents the evidence that refutes your previous comment.
What evidence?

I know that bull shit came from you respect thread, and WHAT?

NOWHERE in that scan,
or ANYWHERE in that issue does Phoenix hold/manipulate that Timeline.

What the hell does Phoenix saving that Timeline,
have to do with her atomically repairing a Timeline like she did in Here Comes Tomorrow?

Absolutely NOTHING!

How about holding a Timeline?

Absolutely NOTHING!




I left the fantasies surrounding your thread alone duke,
you can continue to debate with yourself in it, all you wish.


Originally posted by id369

And you only abrupt more frustrations comments?

My how the mighty fall in despair.
Inconsequential, pointless off-topic gobbledygook.

Originally posted by Mr Master


Dude, do your own research and stop yankin crap from a respect thread.

Where, ANYWHERE in that scan,
do you see Phoenix atomically manipulating that time-line?

Where, ANYWHERE in that scan,
do you see Phoenix holding that time-line in her hands?

Where, ANYWHERE in that scan,
do you see Phoenix stopping a Universal nullifier from doing it's job?


She stopped some nukes in that scan. uhh, that's it.
You know how many beings have prevented the eradication of a Universe,
without the need to manipulate said Universe?

Please.

Not much about that thread, but dude, where did you see Galactus actually absorbing an Omniverse to use it as a feat (you literally did that and ranked Galactus based on that in your list)? Come on, man.
Where did you see MJJ actually collapsing an Omniverse (again, you were giving that as a feat, literally and used, again, to place MJJ in your list)?
So, Sinister said Phoenix saved an entire timeline, literally. And in this case, timeline was saved by Phoenix, the job was done. Or maybe he was just joking. But if you use that, we can also use Sinister words.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Jean extracted Sublime from reality
and then stated she had to telekinetically amputate that future,
as she states that,
the Here Comes Tomorrow reality disappearred
and Jean was outside the crystal, outside the WHR.

I see, so the Future was withIN Sublime:

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/9987/fudr4.th.jpg



Originally posted by GalacticStorm

On panel Jean used her telekinesis to manipulate the atoms of the universe. She performed this feat from the WHR, however on panel the feat was attributed to her telekinesis therefore your comment about "only in the WHR" is irrelevant.
Her telekinesis withIN the WHR you mean.

Which isn't surprising,
many entities are more versatile/powerful etc. withIn their own dimension.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Not much about that thread, but dude, where did you see Galactus actually absorbing an Omniverse to use it as a feat (you literally did that and ranked Galactus based on that in your list)? Come on, man.
Bullshit - I've never ranked Galactus as an Omniversal power.

And yep, Galactus was indeed in the process of absorbing the entire Omniverse.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Where did you see MJJ actually collapsing an Omniverse
(again, you were giving that as a feat, literally and used, again, to place MJJ in your list)?
You need to read comics before stepping to me son.

Originally posted by Xplosive

So, Sinister said Phoenix saved an entire timeline, literally. And in this case, timeline was saved by Phoenix, the job was done. Or maybe he was just joking. But if you use that, we can also use Sinister words.
Wow, ooh, big freakin deal,
Jean saved the 616 Universe once,
doesn't mean she did anything to the 616 Universe directly, which she didn't.

Originally posted by Mr Master
You need to read comics before stepping to me son.

Funny. Hahahhahaa. What I said, it's true. BAM!

Originally posted by Xplosive
Funny. Hahahhahaa. What I said, it's true. BAM!
Should I make you feel silly?

I busted out those scans many times, maybe you were sleeping,
but come again, and I'll make you eat your words.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Should I make you feel silly?

I busted out those scans many times, maybe you were sleeping,
but come again, and I'll make you eat your words.

Do it.

Originally posted by Xplosive

where did you see Galactus actually absorbing an Omniverse to use it as a feat
Even though I never used this as a feat,
swallow this:

........................................................................................................

That future-self of Galactus 616 in the Black Celestial arc,
was an OMNIVERSAL threat,
not just a threat in fact,
indeed,
Galactus was beginning the process of absorbing the Omniverse entire:

........................................................................................................

These scans are from Avengers v1. #296 - 297

The beginning of the whole Black Celestial drama.
........................................................................................................

Where Galactus was being prepped to begin absorbing the ENTIRE OMNIVERSE,

and the EDITOR of this arc was MARK GRUENWALD ...

........................................................................................................

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/8987/biggomni1iq6.th.jpg

"Celestial renegade (Taimut) constructed a weapon (Galactus)
mighty enough to threaten the ENTIRE Space-Time structure of the OMNIVERSE"

........................................................................................................


Nebula had control of some avengers and was planning on taking Galactus' power:

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/1222/biggomni2dt6.th.jpg

"I have learned about the great weapon (Galactus) in Time"

........................................................................................................


MAKE NO MISTAKE!


The weapon is Galactus! (FF#341)

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/3127/9te0.th.jpg

"Galactus Himself is the WEAPON"

........................................................................................................


A mini artistic depiction of the actual OMNIVERSE:

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/239/biggomni4vw9.th.jpg

"Suffice to say that the weapon is Supreme (Galactus)
the OMNIVERSE is vast beyond imagining"

........................................................................................................


(Notice at the bottom of the scan, who the EDITOR is)

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1489/biggomni6zc9.th.jpg

"The greatest weapon (Galactus) in the OMNIVERSE is nearly mine"

........................................................................................................

Is MARK GRUENWALD (the Editor) allowing hyperbole? ermmno

........................................................................................................


This (FF#337-341) is from the actual continuation of the arc above:


Galactus was in the process of absorbing "ALL EXISTENCE"


http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/5524/11ms5.th.jpg

"Galactus who's busy wolfin' (eating) down ALL of TIME and SPACE"

............................................................................................

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/8093/10qt9.th.jpg

"The time will come soon when ALL the Energy in the UNIVERSE,
through out it's HISTORY will NOT be SUFFICIENT to feed him"


The History of the Marvel Universe ... as in the expanded OMNIVERSE!!!

........................................................................................................


Galactus was in the process of absorbing "ALL EXISTENCE" (Omniverse)


Confirmed by the Guardians of the Galaxy in yet another separate arc:

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/5047/20396565ii7.th.jpg


RESPECT Galactus yall! (evidently a potential Omniversal power)


=========================================

Originally posted by Xplosive

Where did you see MJJ actually collapsing an Omniverse
Swallow this too:

..................................................................................


Omniversal warping by Jaspers!

Cobweb is psychically connected to her Past and Future selves,
she tapped into one of her possible Future-selves:

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/1046/25152532kp1.th.jpg

These are NOT cheesy visions of some future,
Cobweb literally connects to her counter-parts residing in even possible Futures,
so what Cobweb saw,
would DEFINITELY have happened.

Anyway, guess what she witnessed,
had Jaspers not been stopped by his personal anti-JJ plot device. (the Fury)

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/9255/99178716vp9.th.jpg

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/7533/48392736kk4.th.jpg

..................................................................................

That above is Jaspers canceling the entire Omniverse,
just like Omniversal Matrix/Merlyn predicted would happen if he wasn't stopped:

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/1219/m17iu3.th.jpg

..................................................................................


Meh, not to mention:

Jaspers' 616's weaker counter-part (Jaspers 238)
actually thwarted Omniversal Matrix/Merlyn's power when he tried stopping J's warp.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8343/jjgo1.th.jpg

Matrix/Meryn = Omniversal power
238 Jaspers > Matrix/Merlyn
616 Jaspers > 238 Jaspers

..................................................................................

Hope that tasted good.

He just got owned Good Scans Mr master

Originally posted by Mr Master
Even though I never used this as a feat,
swallow this:

........................................................................................................

That future-self of Galactus 616 in the Black Celestial arc,
was an OMNIVERSAL threat,
not just a threat in fact,
indeed,
Galactus was beginning the process of absorbing the Omniverse entire:

........................................................................................................

These scans are from Avengers v1. #296 - 297

The beginning of the whole Black Celestial drama.
........................................................................................................

Where Galactus was being prepped to begin absorbing the ENTIRE OMNIVERSE,

and the EDITOR of this arc was MARK GRUENWALD ...

........................................................................................................

"Celestial renegade (Taimut) constructed a weapon (Galactus)
mighty enough to threaten the ENTIRE Space-Time structure of the OMNIVERSE"

........................................................................................................


Nebula had control of some avengers and was planning on taking Galactus' power:

"I have learned about the great weapon (Galactus) in Time"

........................................................................................................


MAKE NO MISTAKE!


The weapon is Galactus! (FF#341)

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/3127/9te0.th.jpg

"Galactus Himself is the WEAPON"

........................................................................................................


A mini artistic depiction of the actual OMNIVERSE:

"Suffice to say that the weapon is Supreme (Galactus)
the OMNIVERSE is vast beyond imagining"

........................................................................................................


(Notice at the bottom of the scan, who the EDITOR is)

"The greatest weapon (Galactus) in the OMNIVERSE is nearly mine"

........................................................................................................

Is MARK GRUENWALD (the Editor) allowing hyperbole? ermmno

........................................................................................................


This (FF#337-341) is from the actual continuation of the arc above:


Galactus was in the process of absorbing "ALL EXISTENCE"

"Galactus who's busy wolfin' (eating) down ALL of TIME and SPACE"

............................................................................................

"The time will come soon when ALL the Energy in the UNIVERSE,
through out it's HISTORY will NOT be SUFFICIENT to feed him"


The History of the Marvel Universe ... as in the expanded OMNIVERSE!!!

........................................................................................................


Galactus was in the process of absorbing "ALL EXISTENCE" (Omniverse)


Confirmed by the Guardians of the Galaxy in yet another separate arc:

RESPECT Galactus yall! (evidently a potential Omniversal power)


=========================================

Mr Master, that never happened, we don't know if it truly would (we can't know until it happens), so don't use it or mentioned anymore in favor of Galactus, only feats.
You placed Galactus on your hierarchy list literally relying on those scans and putting him above White Crown of the Phoenix, who actually had a feat manipulating entire Universe atomically.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Swallow this too:

..................................................................................


Omniversal warping by Jaspers!

Cobweb is psychically connected to her Past and Future selves,
she tapped into one of her possible Future-selves:

Originally posted by Mr Master
These are NOT cheesy visions of some future,
Cobweb literally connects to her counter-parts residing in even possible Futures,
so what Cobweb saw,
would DEFINITELY have happened.

It didn't happen, man, literally. Always, something ''He was stopped'', so he couldn't do it, was stopped, literally was stopped, because he couldn't do it.


Originally posted by Mr Master
Anyway, guess what she witnessed,
had Jaspers not been stopped by his personal anti-JJ plot device. (the Fury)

..................................................................................

That above is Jaspers canceling the entire Omniverse,
just like Omniversal Matrix/Merlyn predicted would happen if he wasn't stopped:
..................................................................................


Meh, not to mention:

Jaspers' 616's weaker counter-part (Jaspers 238)
actually thwarted Omniversal Matrix/Merlyn's power when he tried stopping J's warp.

Matrix/Meryn = Omniversal power
238 Jaspers > Matrix/Merlyn
616 Jaspers > 238 Jaspers

..................................................................................

Hope that tasted good.

Again, like I said, saddly, no feats.
Enough already of using Merilyn predictions ''He predicted it, but MJJ was stopped''. Ha.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
He just got owned Good Scans Mr master

Hahhaah. He didn't own anyone. When Mr Master is owned, he can't admitt it. But then he shown some useless scans and someone like you say, ''Wow, look what he shown, scans, he must know a lot, he is correct''.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I guess you think, if someone saves a Timeline it automatically means they have atomic control over said Timeline.

We know that Phoenix has it, atomic control over a universe, HCM, now this, so it fits very well.

Heh that was worth a chuckle.

Mr. M states Jean stopped the nukes.
Comic: Nukes and the destruction of an Entire Time line ware stopped.
So tell me who is spewing fanatical bullshit?

And the entire point of that vary scan is to depict how the Phoenix interacts with a time line in its totality.
Did she need to go into the WHR? - NO!
Did She need to hold in her hands? - NO!

The scan doesnt prove that either way really....it didnt show her doing it so no one can say she did or did not go into the white hot room.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Mr Master, that never happened, we don't know if it truly would
(we can't know until it happens),
so don't use it or mentioned anymore in favor of Galactus, only feats.
Interesting, even though it's right there happening On Panel,
are you just playing dumb?

Cause it's working.

Originally posted by Xplosive

It didn't happen, man, literally. Always, something ''He was stopped'',
so he couldn't do it, was stopped, literally was stopped, because he couldn't do it.
Silly boy, go read a comic book.

It was Galactus who stopped himself, NO one esle was able.

In order to stop himself from absorbing the rest of the UNIVERSE and EVERYTHING BEYOND!

Galactus ERASES HIMSELF and that UNIVERSE from existence with the UN,
in order to prevent this future from coming to pass:

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/1834/13vp5.th.jpg



http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/858/14xo4.th.jpg

"And without a sound,
the UNIVERSE behind them softly and suddenly VANISHES AWAY"




Go READ Comics and stop posting so much garbage.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Again, like I said, saddly, no feats.
Enough already of using Merilyn predictions
''He predicted it, but MJJ was stopped''. Ha.
No offense, but this reply proves tat you're an idiot.

Jaspers literally DID warp the entire Omniverse in a possible alternate Future.

Just like Jean manipulated those atoms in a possible alternate future.

You didn't even know that did you, silly child.
Originally posted by Xplosive

Hahhaah. He didn't own anyone. When Mr Master is owned, he can't admitt it. But then he shown some useless scans and someone like you say, ''Wow, look what he shown, scans, he must know a lot, he is correct''.
Gibberish!

Originally posted by Xplosive

We know that Phoenix has it, atomic control over a universe, HCM
Yes, I know what Jean is capable of withIN the WHR. youpi

So I guess everytime she battles,
she'll be running for her life into the WHR to affect a Universe.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Interesting, even though it's right there happening On Panel,
are you just playing dumb?

Cause it's working.


Silly boy, go read a comic book.

It was Galactus who stopped himself, NO one esle was able.

Ok. Don't know who is the idiot. Wouldn't except that from you, who reads comics and know other powerful beings in MU. Wow, what a memory and logic. Bravo!

Originally posted by Mr Master
Yes, I know what Jean is capable of withIN the WHR. youpi

So I guess everytime she battles,
she'll be running for her life into the WHR to affect a Universe.

Wow! Bravo once more! Yeah! Of, you forgot that Jean saved an entire timeline in and it wasn't mentioned it was within WHR.

Originally posted by id369
Heh that was worth a chuckle.
Heh that was worth a chuckle.

Originally posted by id369

Mr. M states Jean stopped the nukes.
Comic: Nukes and the destruction of an Entire Time line ware stopped.
So tell me who is spewing fanatical bullshit?
Go ahead homie,
show us Phoenix atomically manipulating that Timeline,
show us Phoenix applying her power to that Timeline,
show us Phoenix doing ANYTHING at all to that Timeline directly.

Please, show us.

Wait, all you have is that statement?

Get that shit out of here son.

Originally posted by id369

And the entire point of that vary scan is to depict how the Phoenix interacts with a time line in its totality.
Did she need to go into the WHR? - NO!
Did She need to hold in her hands? - NO!
The FF/Silver Surfer and many others save the Universe all the time,
does this make them atomic controllers of said Universer?

Nah.

So again, in Here Comes Tomorrow,
Jean did manipulate the atoms of a Timeline withIN the WHR,
Jean did hold a Timeline in her hands withIN the WHR.

Jean did NO such thing in that AoA scan.
Nothing even remotely resembling that.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I see, so the Future was withIN Sublime:

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/9987/fudr4.th.jpg



Very cute Emmie.

You know i never said that.


Originally posted by Mr Master
Her telekinesis withIN the WHR you mean.

Which isn't surprising,
many entities are more versatile/powerful etc. withIn their own dimension.

When thats the case, it is stated to be so on panel or in bios.

Here it isnt.

Unless you can show me otherwise?

Therefore it would be somewhat naive and really rather foolish to assume that that was the case here when the point isnt stated and what is stated is that Jeans feat was accomplished via telekinesis. Bio says the same.

You have nothing but your opposing opinion. Not good enough

Ok guys

Lets chill

Originally posted by Mr Master
show us Phoenix atomically manipulating that Timeline,
show us Phoenix applying her power to that Timeline,
show us Phoenix doing ANYTHING at all to that Timeline directly.

Show us where it states that Phoenix didn't do it. Please, show us.
It says she saved entire timeline, it pretty much looks directly. But show us where it states it wasn't and show us how she did it, please.
Sinister said by power. Silver Surfer saving an Universe never did it through sheer power.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Ok. Don't know who is the idiot. Wouldn't except that from you, who reads comics and know other powerful beings in MU. Wow, what a memory and logic. Bravo!
hum

Originally posted by Xplosive

Wow! Bravo once more! Yeah! Of,
you forgot that Jean saved an entire timeline in and it wasn't mentioned it was within WHR.
Saving a Timeline from destruction,
does NOT equal to,
manipulating a Timeline at the atomic level,
unless stated/depicted as the course of action that was taken.

Heroes save Universes all the time, big deal.


Jean needs the WHR to manipulate a Timeline atomically, get me?

On Panel she had to enter the WHR,
and the Here Comes TOmorrow bio states, she shifter herself into her dimension (WHR)
in order to Heal:

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/6308/pfrz8.th.jpg
(excerpt from the Marvel Handbook - Here Come Tomorrow bio)



Again, read comics my friend.

Originally posted by Mr Master
hum


Saving a Timeline from destruction,
does NOT equal to,
manipulating a Timeline at the atomic level,
unless stated/depicted as the course of action that was taken.

Heroes save Universes all the time, big deal.


Jean needs the WHR to manipulate a Timeline atomically, get me?

On Panel she had to enter the WHR,
and the Here Comes TOmorrow bio states, she shifter herself into her dimension (WHR)
in order to Heal:

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/6308/pfrz8.th.jpg
(excerpt from the Marvel Handbook - Here Come Tomorrow bio)



Again, read comics my friend.

Love the selective editing Emmie.



Jean used her telekinesis outside the WHR to amputate the HCT future thereby setting a precedence for what she did inside.

Inside she once again used her TK, this time to manipulate the atomic structure of reality. All whats talked about is that she used her TK. That is it. No speculation please

The bio from December added universal scale matter manipulation to her powerset.

That says it all

Originally posted by Mr Master
hum


Saving a Timeline from destruction,
does NOT equal to,
manipulating a Timeline at the atomic level,
unless stated/depicted as the course of action that was taken.

Heroes save Universes all the time, big deal.


Jean needs the WHR to manipulate a Timeline atomically, get me?

On Panel she had to enter the WHR,
and the Here Comes TOmorrow bio states, she shifter herself into her dimension (WHR)
in order to Heal:

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/6308/pfrz8.th.jpg
(excerpt from the Marvel Handbook - Here Come Tomorrow bio)



Again, read comics my friend.

It never says that Jean needed to go to the White Hot Room to manipulate the atomic structure of reality.

It sets a sequence. It talks of Jean going to the White Hot Room and says she was able to heal the universe.

Lets not be deceitful Emmie

Originally posted by Xplosive

Show us where it states that Phoenix didn't do it. Please, show us.
Who said she didn't do it?

Seriously dogs, if your high right now, don't debate with me,
wait till you're sober.

I hate circles.

Originally posted by Xplosive
It says she saved entire timeline, it pretty much looks directly.
Whoopi do what it says,
FF save the entire Universe all the time,
they don't need to apply their power on said Universe to do so though.

Originally posted by Xplosive

But show us where it states it wasn't and show us how she did it, please.
Show us how she did it?

Dude, you're arguing on behalf of that story,
and you don't even know what the scans say?

Did you just copy and paste what you swallowed in the respect thread,
without even checking for yourself first?

Bad, bad.

Anywho, on the how:

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/1588/xmenageofapocalypse0506qj1.th.jpg

Like we all know, by stopping some nukes.

Phoenix for the win

When are we going to stop giving Kyle/ion- parallax's feats..enough! they are different people...we dont give all green lanterns the same feats because they have the same power or weapon?...its a joke

For kyle as ion lets see some of his feats...where do i look, a dual respect thread?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Love the selective editing Emmie.
Actually that's what you Pino.

Remember the LT bowing to Jean? shifty

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Jean used her telekinesis outside the WHR to amputate the HCT future thereby setting a precedence for what she did inside.

I see, so the Future was withIN Sublime:

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/9987/fudr4.th.jpg



Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Inside she once again used her TK, this time to manipulate the atomic structure of reality. All whats talked about is that she used her TK. That is it. No speculation please
WithIN the WHR she was able to repair the Timeline, I agree.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

The bio from December added universal scale matter manipulation to her powerset.

That says it all
On Panel >>> bio

On Panel Jean has never manipulated a Universe entirely outside of the WHR.

That says it all.

You can give them the same feats for the most part because they were powered by the exact same powersource,trying using your brain,and no phoenix isnt winning against the strongest version of ion,want some feats?go read some green lantern comics its not my job to provide shit.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Like we all know, by stopping some nukes.

And stopping nukes means saving an entire timeline?

Originally posted by Mr Master


On Panel >>> bio

On Panel Jean has never manipulated a Universe entirely outside of the WHR.

That says it all.

On panel it was never stated that Jean got a power up from stepping into the WHR, therefore arguing as if that was the case, makes for a very flawed argument.

All what is stated is that Jean used her telekinesis. The bio went on to add telekinetic manipulation on a universal scale to her powerset.

Can you show me where its stated on panel that Jean received a powerup from the WHR which she needed to use her own telekinesis to perform the feat?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

It never says that Jean needed to go to the White Hot Room to manipulate the atomic structure of reality.

It sets a sequence.
It talks of Jean going to the White Hot Room and says she was able to heal the universe.
I find it funny how your trying to diverge the facts.

Jean went into the WHR (which just happens to be a HOSPITAL for Timelines)

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/6773/hoskj5.th.jpg

"Hospital White Hot"


She's clearly guided into the WHR to perform the atomic reparation,
yet, although she's NEVER done this outside of this room,
you'l say she can.





The bio also clearly stated,
that she shifted into the WHR in order to be able to Heal:


http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/6308/pfrz8.th.jpg
(excerpt from the Marvel Handbook - Here Come Tomorrow bio)

This isn't directed to any single poster.


I don't want to see any more flaming or bashing from this thread. Please debate the issues without the insults. Thanks.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
On panel it was never stated that Jean got a power up from stepping into the WHR, therefore arguing as if that was the case, makes for a very flawed argument.

All what is stated is that Jean used her telekinesis. The bio went on to add telekinetic manipulation on a universal scale to her powerset.

Can you show me where its stated on panel that Jean received a powerup from the WHR which she needed to use her own telekinesis to perform the feat?
Your using bios...honestly,do I need to site shit on the dc comics website that call ion a near omnipotent being with infinite power.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
You can give them the same feats for the most part because they were powered by the exact same powersource,trying using your brain,and no phoenix isnt winning against the strongest version of ion,want some feats?go read some green lantern comics its not my job to provide shit.

OK lets analize this...."WE gcan give them the same feats for the most part"...are you high or somthing? for the most part is the best you have....and you ask if i am using my brain

"Powered by the exact same powersource" like the GL's right...so every phoenix gets all the feats from every phoenix ever....every GL gets the same feats for every one in the corps.....every weilder of the quantum bands gets the same feats......How old are you? should i be debating with someone who is 8 years old?

Hey there lets not be so tuff over the internet..ok, i dont question wether you use your brain or not..give it up...your stroking of the DC universe is well known

So ...we at KMC.....we can now give all green lanterns the same feats? we can all give weares of the infinity gaunlet the same feats?, .We can give all the weilders of the quantum bands the same feats.i am being fair and level headed....what are you doing?

Originally posted by id369
Can the Silver Suffer with the FF do the same unaided? Not with out a plot device.

They can't through their power. Sinister said by power, so it indicates Phoenix saved a timeline by power and he wanted that power.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I find it funny how your trying to diverge the facts.

Jean went into the WHR (which just happens to be a HOSPITAL for Timelines)

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/6773/hoskj5.th.jpg

"Hospital White Hot"


She's clearly guided into the WHR to perform the atomic reparation,
yet, although she's NEVER done this outside of this room,
you'l say she can.





The bio also clearly stated,
that she shifted into the WHR in order to be able to Heal:


http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/6308/pfrz8.th.jpg
(excerpt from the Marvel Handbook - Here Come Tomorrow bio)

I find it funny that on panel it is stated that Jean used her telekinesis and the bio from November went on to take the feat and incorporate what she did into her powerset, yet for the sake of your hierarchy you would ignore this and go on and on and on and on and on about an imaginary powerup Jean gets everytime she steps into the WHR.

Why dont you show us where that points stated on panel because its not.

As for your selectively edited bio:

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
It never says that Jean needed to go to the White Hot Room to manipulate the atomic structure of reality.

It sets a sequence. It talks of Jean going to the White Hot Room and says she was able to heal the universe.

Originally posted by starlock
OK lets analize this...."WE gcan give them the same feats for the most part"...are you high or somthing? for the most part is the best you have....and you ask if i am using my brain

"Powered by the exact same powersource" like the GL's right...so every phoenix gets all the feats from every phoenix ever....every GL gets the same feats for every one in the corps.....every weilder of the quantum bands gets the same feats......How old are you? should i be debating with someone who is 8 years old?

Hey there lets not be so tuff over the internet..ok, i dont question wether you use your brain or not..give it up...your stroking of the DC universe is well known

So ...we at KMC.....we can now give all green lanters the same feats? we can all give weares of the infinity gaunlet the same feats?, we can give every one who has reality control the same feats..We can give all the weilders of the quantum bands the same feats.i am being fair and level headed....what are you doing?
Not every phoenix user is at the exact same level we know that,not every gl operates at the exact same level because of willpower ect effecting their powers,PARALLAX AND ION HAD THE LITERAL EXACT SAME POWER ABSORBED INTO THEM THEY CAN USE EACH OTHERS FEATS FOR THE MOST PART,what your doing is trolling and my dc stroking right what would that be,omgloltehhuccantbeatsuperman must be some serious wanking or I know myx can fight on the level of the inf gauntlet god I must be wanking,stfu and go read some ion comics and get back to me,the examples you tried to use fail because they are all dependant on the user something the central battery is not.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Not every phoenix user is at the exact same level we know that,not every gl operates at the exact same level because of willpower ect effecting their powers,PARALLAX AND ION HAD THE LITERAL EXACT SAME POWER ABSORBED INTO THEM THEY CAN USE EACH OTHERS FEATS FOR THE MOST PART,what your doing is trolling and my dc stroking right what would that be,omgloltehhuccantbeatsuperman must be some serious wanking or I know myx can fight on the level of the inf gauntlet god I must be wanking,stfu and go read some ion comics and get back to me,the examples you tried to use fail because they are all dependant on the user something the central battery is not.

Ion took on the energies Parallax has left behind, however how well those energies can be utilised depends on teh users experience and their willpower, therefore you cannot use Parallax's feats to directly speak for Ion.

Originally posted by Mr Master


Phoenix has NEVER manipulated a Timeline outside the WHR,
I challenge you to prove otherwise.

As far as we all know,
Jean can atomically manipulate a Timeline withIN the WHR.

Jean can save Timelines outside the WHR, but through other methods,
just like all Phoenix avatars can do,
I mean, it's their job for crying out loud.



Show us an on panel reference which states that Jeans high level telekinesisi is only activated by her geing in the WHR.

Show us where in that scene its stated that Jean gets a powerup from being in the WHR

Before she was in the WHR she extracted Sublime from reality. She then says she had to telekinetically amputate that future and we see that reality disappear and Jean is now outside of the crystal.

That feat with her telekinesis set precedence for what she went on to do.

All whats stated is that she used her telekinesis. You therefore have no justification(regardless of whether you actually believe it) to talk as if its a fact, that Jeans TK feat was dependent on her being in the WHR)

Jeans handbook, which is the very latest on the matter updates her powers with the feat. It makes no mention of your opinion, just like the actual comic itself.

Im sorry Mr Master, but you might as well let this one go

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Ion took on the energies Parallax has left behind, however how well those energies can be utilised depends on teh users experience and their willpower, therefore you cannot use Parallax's feats to directly speak for Ion.
Yea I can the energy was never said to depend on willpower or anything,it wasnt just the energy left over it was part of parallax+oblivion+kyles energy+the guardians the only thing that can be said is that ions power was greater then parallaxs and of course thats before he got the starheart amping and the complete power of the battery back,ion has better feats then parallax so it doesnt matter anyways,phoenix isnt winning this just stop trying to prove she can because she cant.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Yea I can the energy was never said to depend on willpower or anything,it wasnt just the energy left over it was part of parallax+oblivion+kyles energy+the guardians the only thing that can be said is that ions power was greater then parallaxs and of course thats before he got the starheart amping and the complete power of the battery back,ion has better feats then parallax so it doesnt matter anyways,phoenix isnt winning this just stop trying to prove she can because she cant.

At the end of the day, you cant assume that someone can tap into an energy source and use it as well as those who have used it before. It doesnt work like that here on the comic forums.

Post some feats of what Ion has done himself and we'll take it from there

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Not every phoenix user is at the exact same level we know that,not every gl operates at the exact same level because of willpower ect effecting their powers,PARALLAX AND ION HAD THE LITERAL EXACT SAME POWER ABSORBED INTO THEM THEY CAN USE EACH OTHERS FEATS FOR THE MOST PART,what your doing is trolling and my dc stroking right what would that be,omgloltehhuccantbeatsuperman must be some serious wanking or I know myx can fight on the level of the inf gauntlet god I must be wanking,stfu and go read some ion comics and get back to me,the examples you tried to use fail because they are all dependant on the user something the central battery is not.

Trolling? you wish....but i let mods decide those things....and again"for the most part" and are you going to enlighten us as to what is the most part? is it when you feel your on the loosing side of a debate? or when you need a crutch to fall back on?

It is not a debate...Ion is not parallax...Ions feats are not Parallax's feats
Parallax is not ion..parallax feats are not Ions.....

Experience,intelligence,willpower and in some cases Strength, agility etc are going to make a difference with any...weapon...power source..Even a normal gun..The dual respect thread is a farce if its ment to say they have the same feats..if its used to save space...well that ok i guess..and sharing their feats is beyond ridiculous its bordering on cheating and ignorance

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Show us an on panel reference which states that Jeans high level telekinesisi is only activated by her geing in the WHR.
Show us Jean activating Universal telekinesis outside the WHR.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Show us where in that scene its stated that Jean gets a powerup from being in the WHR
No one's ever made that claim, so no need to.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Before she was in the WHR she extracted Sublime from reality.
She then says she had to telekinetically amputate that future
and we see that reality disappear and Jean is now outside of the crystal.
Nah,

Jean extracted Sublime, this amputated the future,
the amputated future is in her hands once inside her dimension.

Unless you're gonna try and say Sublime was the Future.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

That feat with her telekinesis set precedence for what she went on to do.

All whats stated is that she used her telekinesis. You therefore have no justification(regardless of whether you actually believe it) to talk as if its a fact, that Jeans TK feat was dependent on her being in the WHR)
I never said her TK is dependent on the WHR, that would be foolish.

I clearly said many times,
Jean needed to be withIN the WHR to perform her feat during Here Comes Tomorrow.

Am I lying?

You know I'm not.


Can she do the same thing outside the room?

Perhaps, but it hasn't occurred on panel yet.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Jeans handbook, which is the very latest on the matter updates her powers with the feat. It makes no mention of your opinion, just like the actual comic itself.
On Panel > bio

A bio has to corroborate on panel depictions to have merit.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Im sorry Mr Master, but you might as well let this one go
Im sorry Galactic Storm, but you might as well let this one go

See, easy.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Jean can save Timelines outside the WHR, but through other methods,
just like all Phoenix avatars can do,
I mean, it's their job for crying out loud.

Cool, was waiting you to say that.
Now back about manipulating universe only in WHR.
You act Mr Master like she doesn't have telekinesis outside of the WHR.
Like she only has universal scale of telekinesis in the WHR. It doesn't work that way. Also bio doesn't state anything like that about only having such telekinesis in the WHR, but it states generally, she having on universal scale.

Maybe she is using WHR only to pull the universe from the multiverse (from WHR she can probably simultaneously watch all universes) in the WHR, so that she can choose which universe to heal, to atomically manipulate. But about having telekinesis to atomically reconstruct only in the WHR, doesn't make sense, because also bios states she has the power and it doesn't mention she can only do it in the WHR and that also makes more sense.

But you, Mr Master, can sometimes only be limited too much literally (no offence, because I don't mean anything bad or aiming for you to be stupid or can't think logically, but it seems no matter what, you only want to win this debate and debates generally) what is shown on panel, because she has done it in the WHR and you don't think other logical possibilities, but only bounded to them (panels) and then it's no way for other things (but necessarily must be shown on panel). But here is shown on panel actually and also bios states this, on panel is shown that she has atomically universal power (proven in HCM), but you act like outside WHR her telekinesis is considerably lesser. It doesn't work that way.

She has also proven outside WHR to have complete atomic control over matter, that she can feel every atom (never mentioned on universal scale), but it was logical she has and HCM supports this and now also bios supports this.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345

PARALLAX AND ION HAD THE LITERAL EXACT SAME POWER ABSORBED INTO THEM THEY CAN USE EACH OTHERS FEATS FOR THE MOST PART,what your doing is trolling and my dc stroking right what would that be,omgloltehhuccantbeatsuperman must be some serious wanking or I know myx can fight on the level of the inf gauntlet god I must be wanking,stfu and go read some ion comics and get back to me,the examples you tried to use fail because they are all dependant on the user something the central battery is not.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Hahhaah. He didn't own anyone. When Mr Master is owned, he can't admitt it. But then he shown some useless scans and someone like you say, ''Wow, look what he shown, scans, he must know a lot, he is correct''.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Cool, was waiting you to say that.
Now back about manipulating universe only in WHR.
You act Mr Master like she doesn't have telekinesis outside of the WHR.
Like she only has universal scale of telekinesis in the WHR.
It doesn't work that way.
I never said that, that's you interpretation of my posts.

What I've said, I've repeated several times, and won't do so again.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Also bio doesn't state anything like that about only having such telekinesis in the WHR, but it states generally, she having on universal scale.
On Panel > bio

Originally posted by Xplosive

Maybe she is using WHR only to pull the universe from the multiverse (from WHR she can probably simultaneously watch all universes) in the WHR, so that she can choose which universe to heal, to atomically manipulate.
Unsupported speculation.

Nothing at all to suggest this as a possibility.

Originally posted by Xplosive

But about having telekinesis to atomically reconstruct only in the WHR, doesn't make sense, because also bios states she has the power and it doesn't mention she can only do it in the WHR and that also makes more sense.
Please, bios are meaningless unless corroborated with on panel proof.

Originally posted by Xplosive

But you, Mr Master, can sometimes only be limited too much literally what is shown on panel, because she has done it in the WHR and you don't think other logical possibilities, but only bounded to them (panels) and then it's no way for other things (but necessarily must be shown on panel).
Correct, if it didn't happen on panel, then it never happened.

That is truly Mr Master's mindset I'll admit.

Originally posted by Xplosive

But here is shown on panel actually and also bios states this, on panel is shown that she has atomically universal power (proven in HCM),

but you act like outside WHR her telekinesis is gone or considerably lesser.
No one said that, so please pay attention so we can avoid circles.

Originally posted by Xplosive

She has also proven outside WHR to have complete atomic control over matter, that she can feel every atom (never mentioned on universal scale)
That's true, and I agree.

See Mr Master is fair if truth is being posted.

Originally posted by Xplosive

but it was logical she has
and now also bios supports this and also HCM supports this.
Bio (alone) supports that, true,
but HCT does not.

Originally posted by Mr Master
No one said that, so please pay attention so we can avoid circles.

I didn't say you had said that, but you act like that, like her TK control outside of WHR being lesser. And since it was not mentioned about she being powered up in WHR, I don't see why would her universal TK power be lesser outside of WHR, especially as we know that she said she can feel every atom and now bios stating she has universal atomic control and HCT showing her really having such control, although it was in WHR, she still shown her having universal TK power.
It's not like God-Like Cable could come in WHR and doing what WPOTC was doing with universe.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Bio (alone) supports that, true,
but HCT does not.

Yes, also HCM supports it, was it in WHR or outside, she still shown universal atomic control, so it supports her having universal atomic control, yes, it was in WHR, but it was still universal atomic control.

Originally posted by starlock
Trolling? you wish....but i let mods decide those things....and again"for the most part" and are you going to enlighten us as to what is the most part? is it when you feel your on the loosing side of a debate? or when you need a crutch to fall back on?

It is not a debate...Ion is not parallax...Ions feats are not Parallax's feats
Parallax is not ion..parallax feats are not Ions.....

Experience,intelligence,willpower and in some cases Strength, agility etc are going to make a difference with any...weapon...power source..Even a normal gun..The dual respect thread is a farce if its ment to say they have the same feats..if its used to save space...well that ok i guess..and sharing their feats is beyond ridiculous its bordering on cheating and ignorance
Fine we will ignore ion and parallax having the exact same power source because you whine so much,ion still has the feats to win this because before his massive powerup via the starheart he was still an omnipresent being said to have infinite power,complete control over space and time with the utmost of ease,and described as the right hand of god,even the spectre acknowledges ions power,your reaching so far its ridiculous but whatever.

If not to the white hot room which is outside of space and time, where exactly would Jean have taken an amputated timeline? She could not have amputated the universe and not taken it away or it would not have been amputated. The WHR was not used as a place for power in that arc it was used as a place for diagnoses and healing they even call it a hospital, therefore Jeans TK can be looked at as the ambulance needed for transport. And during Vulcans time within the WHR the power that was there was not some force beyond Jean it was Jean/Phoenix, so she is the white hot room.

Originally posted by Xplosive

I didn't say you had said that, but you act like that, like her TK control outside of WHR being lesser. And since it was not mentioned about she being powered up in WHR, I don't see why would her universal TK power be lesser outside of WHR, especially as we know that she said she can feel every atom and now bios stating she has universal atomic control and HCT showing her really having such control, although it was in WHR, she still shown her having universal TK power.
On Panel, Jean was able to repair that Timeline atomically withIN the WHR,
the WHR is a Hospital for Timelines:

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/6773/hoskj5.th.jpg

"Hospital White Hot"


Think about it X,
why did she need the Timeline to be carried into the Hospital,
IF, she was able to repair it atomically on her own?

Why is it so blatantly spelled out for us, that indeed,
that Timeline entered a Hospital, where Jean THEN repaired it atomically withIN?

Come on X, be reasonable.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Yes, also HCM supports it, was it in WHR or outside, she still shown universal atomic control, so it supports her having universal atomic control, yes, it was in WHR, but it was still universal atomic control.
Absolutely, I agree.

What's funny is,
we're all arguing about this Timeline reparation nonsense,
when Phoenix has done more important things,
like consuming a Universe, (in a What if ... but still)
which is of greater consequence in a battle.

I mean, how will her universal doctoral technique help in a fight?

Exactly, it won't.

Now, exploding a Universe in your enemy's face might help though, imo atleast.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Fine we will ignore ion and parallax having the exact same power source because you whine so much,ion still has the feats to win this because before his massive powerup via the starheart he was still an omnipresent being said to have infinite power,complete control over space and time with the utmost of ease,and described as the right hand of god,even the spectre acknowledges ions power,your reaching so far its ridiculous but whatever.

There really is no debate here..concerning thier feats..they cant be used as one...but the fact that you come here and try and tell me to use my brain ,and now i am whining....is the fact that posters like you cant just come out and say...hey i can see where your coming from,but i think etc....you have to resort to name calling and insults..which to me is a sign of a bad debator who lost a debate and needs to slam the person who showed you the fault in your logic....but these things can be dealt with with the ignore button, so be good and good luck with your debating skills

Originally posted by starlock
There really is no debate here..concerning thier feats..they cant be used as one...but the fact that you come here and try and tell me to use my brain ,and now i am whining....is the fact that posters like you cant just come out and say...hey i can see where your coming from,but i think etc....you have to resort to name calling and insults..which to me is a sign of a bad debator who lost a debate and needs to slam the person who showed you the fault in your logic....but these things can be dealt with with the ignore button, so be good and good luck with your debating skills
Ignore me because you cant counter my points,yes im the bad debator here clearly,they have the exact same power ounce for ounce in their original forms,ion only got exponentially stronger after that,saying I cant use parallaxes feats is just lulztastic,but like I said lets ignore his feats ion still stomps the phoenix.

Originally posted by Mr Master
On Panel, Jean was able to repair that Timeline atomically withIN the WHR,
the WHR is a Hospital for Timelines:

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/6773/hoskj5.th.jpg

"Hospital White Hot"


Think about it X,
why did she need the Timeline to be carried into the Hospital,
IF, she was able to repair it atomically on her own?

Why is it so blatantly spelled out for us, that indeed,
that Timeline entered a Hospital, where Jean THEN repaired it atomically withIN?

Come on X, be reasonable.

I am reasonable, you see I can debate seriously, if I want. She truly did heal it in WHR, but still did it with her own power. Like I said, it's not like God-Like Cable could do that in WHR despite he is powerful TK. I don't know, I think also outside of WHR she can atomically reconstruct and feel every atom on universal scale. I think she can fire it or tear it apart atomically, since her godlike TK.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Absolutely, I agree.

What's funny is,
we're all arguing about this Timeline reparation nonsense,
when Phoenix has done more important things,
like consuming a Universe, (in a What if ... but still)
which is of greater consequence in a battle.

I mean, how will her universal doctoral technique help in a fight?

Exactly, it won't.

Now, exploding a Universe in your enemy's face might help though, imo atleast.

Yes, Pheonix did in What if, destroyed an Universe twice. Once consume it, 2nd in a single outburst of power destroyed it. I don't doubt that she has such destructive power in canon. Especially doing it easily twice in what if and is still a top tier in Marvel, belongs among powerhouses. It's also true that Pheonix has very very low showings, which are some just unacceptable due to what power Phoenix has and just shouldn't have happened or shouldn't be taken seriously.
Once she can do that and then next time loses to much lesser being or to much lesser power that otherwise shouldn't even have affect on Phoenix.

When she took the timeline to the WHR, the decision of what to do with it had not been made until after much dialog, Quire talked about what he thought should happen to it, but it was because Jean remembered her friends and family that after taking it there she decided to fix it. The purpose of taking it to the WHR was for examination,(mostly of herself as she had suddenly transcened to the status of White Crown, and had no idea what that meant until she recieved enlightenemt from the consciousness) had she known what to do while she was in the universe she could have fixed it or destroyed it without taking it as she already had tk control over the entire thing during the trip into the WHR.

.

Originally posted by Xplosive

I am reasonable, you see I can debate seriously, if I want.
She truly did heal it in WHR, but still did it with her own power.
Her own power that can only be applied at that scale withIN the WHR evidently,
concerning atomic manipulation.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Like I said, it's not like God-Like Cable could do that in WHR despite he is powerful TK. I don't know,

I think also outside of WHR she can atomically reconstruct and feel every atom on universal scale.
I think she can fire it or tear it apart atomically, since her godlike TK.
Fine you think that, but there's no evidence of any kind to prove that.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Yes, Pheonix did in What if, destroyed an Universe twice. Once consume it, 2nd in a single outburst of power destroyed it. I don't doubt that she has such destructive power in canon. Especially doing it easily twice in what if and is still a top tier in Marvel, belongs among powerhouses.
Actually both times Jean died with the rest of the Universe,
it was the Force itself that presumably survives.

What if's are not taken seriously though,
they're never referenced in any kind of Handbook bios,
but technically speaking,
they have happened in mirror realities that have diverged.

Anywho, Phoenix still hasn't affected 616 entirely TK style,
not even a tiny portion like a pocket dimension within 616.
So, officially, 616 Phoenix hasn't really done much. (concerning the 616 reality that is)

But still, I'm surely not doubting Phoenix's universal status.

Originally posted by Xplosive

It's also true that Pheonix has very very low showings, which are some just unacceptable due to what power Phoenix has and just shouldn't have happened or shouldn't be taken seriously.
Once she can do that and then next time loses to much lesser being or to much lesser power that otherwise shouldn't even have affect on Phoenix.
Imo, Phoenix is more powerful performing "Phoenix work" than in battle.

Perhaps that's why on panel the Phoenix is not even a part of the Cosmic Hierarchy.

Originally posted by LordKaos

When she took the timeline to the WHR,
the decision of what to do with it had not been made until after much dialog, Quire talked about what he thought should happen to it,
but it was because Jean remembered her friends and family that after taking it there
she decided to fix it.

"after much dialogue?" ... hum

(First time Jean appears with this Future in her hands,
in the SAME Page ... Jean fixes this Future)

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/5770/nxm15420uj8.th.jpg


Next panel: (Job done)

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4728/fixwx1.th.jpg

"Telekinetic control of all those atoms at once ian't as easy as it sounds,

not even for a White Phoenix of the Crown"

...................................................................................

The Quentin Quire moment is on the second to last page way after this.

Originally posted by LordKaos

The purpose of taking it to the WHR was for examination,
(mostly of herself as she had suddenly transcened to the status of White Crown, and had no idea what that meant until she recieved enlightenemt from the consciousness) had she known what to do while she was in the universe she could have fixed it or destroyed it without taking it as
Where is any of this stated?

I read the entire arc,
and all corresponding bios,
never heard of this anywhere.

Originally posted by LordKaos

she already had tk control over the entire thing during the trip into the WHR.
Jean amputated 15104's future,
and she didn't have control, she nearly killed it, and it took prep to ampuate,
then she needed the WHR to fix it atomically.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
I wonder how many more posts it's going to take until GS, and MM start debating each other...

I'd say less than 40 posts (or 2 pages). Probably 15 posts... Ooh.

9 posts and MM made a gesture, and took 14 posts for MM to respond fully. I'm pretty good.

She nearly killed it because she is supposed to burn away what doesn't work, she found a way to make it work by finding out her new role as White Phoenix, in that new role she is not governed by the consciousness she is one with it, so she can make changes to what the Phoenix does because she is no longer a host or merely the house where Phoenix lives she is Phoenix, the power within the crystal, essentially the power that floats around the WHR. When she ascended she brought it with her, where else could it have gone if not to the WHR? You can talk in all the circles you want the point being you know nothing of Ion and live for down playing the Phoenix so unless you know a way Ion is equipped to take her out you're presence only complicates matters and makes a thread go for pages of rhetoric.

yawn I love how cats just make shit up.


Anywho ...
............................................................................

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Ooh.

9 posts and MM made a gesture, and took 14 posts for MM to respond fully.

I'm pretty good.
You're the best.

Originally posted by LordKaos
She nearly killed it because she is supposed to burn away what doesn't work, she found a way to make it work by finding out her new role as White Phoenix, in that new role she is not governed by the consciousness she is one with it, so she can make changes to what the Phoenix does because she is no longer a host or merely the house where Phoenix lives she is Phoenix, the power within the crystal, essentially the power that floats around the WHR. When she ascended she brought it with her, where else could it have gone if not to the WHR? You can talk in all the circles you want the point being you know nothing of Ion and live for down playing the Phoenix so unless you know a way Ion is equipped to take her out you're presence only complicates matters and makes a thread go for pages of rhetoric.
Regardless of what mr m knows or doesnt know,ion will **** phoenix up.

prove it show me him having enough power to beat something that will always come back no matter how much others don't like it. Ion is no more the Phoenix ain't went nowhere since her conception. Say what you want she is forever, just ask marvel, they are the ones who said she is the big bang, the nexus of all psionic energy, the end of all that is etc... and everytime they bring her back she gets an upgrade it is them not me that wants you to know that she is the most powerful, she is not in the hierarchy because those who are in it know she is seperate from them, the only cosmic who is bold enough to manifest on the earth plane without an m-body.

Wha?try making sense when you talk,and go read some ion comics or look at a respect thread,ion had complete control over time and space in the dc universe he could do anything he wanted with it,hell he was omnipresent was all over the universe in current time and past times as well,phoenix on the other hand has to use the whitehot room for her only really good feat and ion does his stuff effortlessly,the spectre talks to ion like an equal,and of course this was all before he got a massive powerup,ion at his strongest would show phoenix the meaning of true power.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345

Regardless of what mr m knows or doesnt know
Mr M knows he's not making shit up,
funny though to watch money play himself.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345

ion will **** phoenix up.
Juntai and Estecado proved that a long time ago.

Ion at his most powerful is stronger in my opinion.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345

phoenix on the other hand has to use the whitehot room for her only really good feat
Precisely.

Phoenix can destroy a "What if" universe outside the whr.

Phoenix can psychically connect to every being in an alternate universe.

Phoenix has never created a universe or even a pocket universe ... alternate or not.