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People often reference Bane and the rest mocking Darth Krayt as a "pretender" to disparage him. However, who else was called a pretender of the Sith by a powerful Sith spirit?

Exar Kun.
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5210/naddfv3.jpg

Freedon Nadd: I now declare it..Exar Kun is a pretender to the Sith legacy.

Nadd, like Bane, simply has petty selfish reasons for their declarations of pretender: Nadd being resentful at the fact Kun obliterated him and Bane being PO'ed that Krayt did not follow his Rule of Two.

Originally posted by Luminatus
Exar Kun.
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5210/naddfv3.jpg

Freedon Nadd: I now declare it..Exar Kun is a pretender to the Sith legacy.


To bad for Nadd that Marka Ragnos accompanied by few other ancient sith declared Exar Kun the new Dark Lord of the Sith. So it seems that Nadd has been overruled. So Kun was no pretender.

Was Desaan a pretender?

Originally posted by Neo_Version 7
Was Desaan a pretender?

I didn't think he declared himself a Sith.

Originally posted by Luminatus
People often reference Bane and the rest mocking Darth Krayt as a "pretender" to disparage him. However, who else was called a pretender of the Sith by a powerful Sith spirit?

Exar Kun.
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5210/naddfv3.jpg

Freedon Nadd: I now declare it..Exar Kun is a pretender to the Sith legacy.

Nadd, like Bane, simply has petty selfish reasons for their declarations of pretender: Nadd being resentful at the fact Kun obliterated him and Bane being PO'ed that Krayt did not follow his Rule of Two.

Yea, but the Rule of 2 was the best way of the sith, because the dark side elevates the SELF, and a group of sith would not really work by the standards of the dark side.

The reason the Rule of two worked was because the single apprentice learned at the feet of the master, whom the apprentice could only defeat once he or she had grown stronger than the master. Bane understood that.

Krayt's order was just an up-dated version of Kahnn's brotherhood.

They've also accomplished way more than Exar ever did.

Exar wasn't a pretender in the same sense, he was appointed by Ragnos as Dark Lord.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Exar wasn't a pretender in the same sense, he was appointed by Ragnos as Dark Lord.

And as I said Ragnos overrules Nadd any day.

Titally. Lol.

I'm just talking about bane v. Krayt. The rule of 2 v. the rule of 1.

Pretender my ass: Krayt has accomplished more then any Sith has save for Palpatine that includes Sadow, Kun, Revan, Ruin and Bane etc, he controls the galaxy(except for Bastion) and has the Jedi dispersed and on the run. It took Bane's order what a 1000 years for Palpatine to control the galaxy and for 26 years...where as it took Krayt, what a century altogether. Bane and Andnedu(sp) were just being bitter d-bags...

That's different from following the main Sith Tradition......

i'm a tad confused: i havent read about Krayt: but isn't he from something like 100 years after luke dies or something?

and isn't Freedon Nadd an ancient sith? how does he and bane have an opinoin on Krayt?

Read Krayt's wookieepedia profile. He possessed the holocrons of Bane,Nihilus and Andeddu.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Pretender my ass: Krayt has accomplished more then any Sith has save for Palpatine that includes Sadow, Kun, Revan, Ruin and Bane etc, he controls the galaxy(except for Bastion) and has the Jedi dispersed and on the run. It took Bane's order what a 1000 years for Palpatine to control the galaxy and for 26 years...where as it took Krayt, what a century altogether. Bane and Andnedu(sp) were just being bitter d-bags...

That's probably why the legacy comics are going to be deemed n-canon, because they virtually shit on everything star Wars related

when do you find out what kind of cannon something is? when Lucas speaks on it? or is it posted online sometime.

(and thanks Elite Hunter)

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
That's probably why the legacy comics are going to be deemed n-canon, because they virtually shit on everything star Wars related


No it won't, whos going to do it? Lucas doesn't give a shit about the EU, and LFL approved the story before it was even created every thing Mr. Ostrander puts in those comics is approved by LFL meaning they're on board with the general story idea. And considering Legacy is the best selling Star Wars comic in a very long time and their main cash cow till the new CW movie and FU game. I don't think any of the large story arcs are going to be written over.

Krayt is not a pretender he was appointed by a Lord that predates Ragnos, and has accomplished more then Bane could dream of, all the while proving his notions of the Ro2 dead wrong.

I mean Bane hero-worships Revan and yet Revan was appointed to his title by no Lord and completely changed the Sith as he saw fit.

Krayt is a pretender. Talking to a holocron doesn't give you the title of DLOTS. Not to mention xoxaan isn't considered of the ancients that has any authority to appoint anybody. She was one of the first sith lords but there is no indication that she was EVER a DLOTS, so you're wrong. Furthermore, Krayt accomplished what he did ONLY with the empire. I can see the fanboyism coming out of you but you're dead wrong. Krayt could do absolutely nothing without the empire. Look at 7 years after his reign began, he still could not conquer Bastion without losing his entire force. What Bane did was more than Krayt ever could. Not to mention his sith are weak willed with little talent in the force save for the basic dark side abilities. Krayt remade his sith into basically the ancient sith, with a bunch of sith lords and 1 DLOTS. That is ALL he did.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Krayt is a pretender. Talking to a holocron doesn't give you the title of DLOTS. Not to mention xoxaan isn't considered of the ancients that has any authority to appoint anybody. She was one of the first sith lords but there is no indication that she was EVER a DLOTS, so you're wrong. Furthermore, Krayt accomplished what he did ONLY with the empire. I can see the fanboyism coming out of you but you're dead wrong. Krayt could do absolutely nothing without the empire. Look at 7 years after his reign began, he still could not conquer Bastion without losing his entire force. What Bane did was more than Krayt ever could. Not to mention his sith are weak willed with little talent in the force save for the basic dark side abilities. Krayt remade his sith into basically the ancient sith, with a bunch of sith lords and 1 DLOTS. That is ALL he did.

-So once again, where is Revan's legit authority to be crowned Dark Lord, the same person that Bane hero-worships.

-I do miss the old argument of "Yous dont agree wit me so u fanboy!!!11" that you have only perfected.



-Semantics much, and more importantly she predates the ancients she was one of the originals whom without the Ancients wouldn't exist. Her authority is as good as theres. And considering he was studying under the Holocron fro what 15+ years, and he went back to Korriban to finalize his study before becoming dark lord only cements his status.

-Krayt waited and took over an incumbent government, that he had tricked into warfare with the Jedi, he played the Empire, he played the Galactic Allaince, and he played the Jedi. And in the end he's ruler of the Galaxy, where as Bane did what? Owes everything he is to Revan, killed the Sith using Revan's technique, created rules based on Revan's philosophy, and then hid...and died...and some 1000 years later Palpatine comes along and rules the galaxy for 26 years, and even then Palpatine breaks Banes rules...some Legacy. If Krayt is nothing without the Empire, Bane is nothing without Revan, and Palpatines nothing without the weak corrupt Republic to manipulate.

-As for Bastion, its the most heavily fortified place in the GALAXY, ANY fleet would be wiped out trying to take it.

-For his Sith's powers...who cares, they serve they're purpose as the Star Wars version of puddies who can take out a few Jedi here and there, and his orders Sith does have a few talents, as the top dogs have been able to go one on one with top Jedi/Imp Knights.

-Simply because he doesn't burst out his uber Sith powers every three seconds doesn't make him any less of a Dark Lord, I'd consider Krayt no more powerful then Dooku, but thats irrelevant as I consider good stories and characterizations over feat wars and ubah powaz!!1 Krayt is no more of a pretender then Bane is, whom is as illegitamite as he is.

BTW DS who you got for the Finals this year.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
So once again, where is Revan's legit authority to be crowned Dark Lord, the same person that Bane hero-worships.
Nobody said Revan was a legitimate DLOTS either.





Except you don't know how long he studied with the holocron seeing as how he got caught by an advance scout Vong ship, which could have been anywhere from 10-25 ABY. Furthermore, a DLOTS can crown another DLOTS. A sith lord can't just crown you DLOTS. At the same time, I don't see Xoxaan crowning him a DLOTS, so I don't know what you're bitching about. Darth Krayt is as much a DLOTS as Jacen is, aka self proclaimed.


Krayt didn't corrupt ANYBODY. Krayt sided with the Empire to destroy the Jedi, that's all. The Empire did the legwork while Krayt came in and claimed the prize. Unless of course you think 1-2,000 weak sith are a match for the empire. Palpatine is the most successful and influential sith in the star wars mythos, give it up. Palpatine manipulated everybody starting from scratch, and destroyed the Jedi Order. Krayt sided with a powerful empire and destroyed the Jedi Temple. Congrats.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
BTW DS who you got for the Finals this year.

Spurs and Pistons but it's not looking for San Antonio right now. They can't seem to win on the road.

So what is Bane bitching about? That makes him an illigitamite Sith Lord, as his reign stems from anther "self proclaimed" Darth, and his original Sith lineage through Ruin is a group of pretenders also. Bane has no right to point fingers.




But we do know it was for a number of years likely more then 10, but its irrelevant.




Meaning all other Sith save for Exar Kun and Palpatine, and Vader are all illegit pretenders, as these are the only ones with the blessings from the Ancients.




Fact - The Sith sabotaged the Ossus project

Fact - That lead to the Galactic/Imperial War

Fact - The Sith lent themselves to the Empire whom allowed the Empire to even win the war against the Jedi and GA as the Imp Knights did not participate in the conflict

Fact - Krayt took power from Roan Fel then had the Moffs swear loyalty to him.

Though less subtle and doesn't compare to Palpatine it sure as hell beats out anything Bane did.

And your saying this like I care, I'm defending Krayt v Bane and his absurd comments not Krayt v Palpatine, who was a Banite sith in name only as he didn't follow Banes rules and probably didn't give a shit about Bane either. Krayt saw his opportunity and snatched it, Bane did nothing but hid, I'm saying if his Legacy is having Palpatine rule the galaxy for 26 years after a 1000 year wait then he failed pretty hardcore.

And its most likely gonna be a Lakers/Pistons Finals.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
because they virtually shit on everything star Wars related

I hope this is true, it just pains me to see the Skywalker legacy reduced to a brat that somehow outdone Anakin in whinyness.

Krayt's feats are not unimpressive. He certainly is not Palpatine in regards to manipulation and take-overs, but he has steal achieved to assume a seat of power by blunt force. As Styles has said, he played pretty much everyone. The Empire and the Alliance were coexisting peacefully as they were both trying to rebuild the Galaxy. All was peaceful and going well until Krayt had the Ossus Project sabotaged, which triggered the war between the Alliance and the Empire.

But Krayt is no better than Bane. Sure, Bane did not become a galactic ruler, but he took an original view of the Sith Order and perfected his plans so that eventually someone could take over. Bane did not want to be ruler, he wanted a Sith to be ruler, whoever it eventually would be. This ended up being Palpatine, of course. Bane was willing to have the patience to do this, as all prior Sith attempts to take over the Galaxy through military might had utterly failed.

Anyways, Krayt did not just side with the winning team. I find it likely that he intended to side with the Empire unless his plan failed, as the Empire has had its history with the Emperor Palpatine as opposed to the do-gooders of the Rebellion that the Alliance was known for affiliating with. The Empire is inherently corrupted, whereas the Rebellion is inherently sparkling and shiningly moral and just. Not that that gets them anywhere, really...

As for achieving the title of Dark Lord of the Sith, I thought it was always delegated to whichever Sith was the most powerful and able to remain in command, rather than being picked. For example, Revan was Dark Lord until Malak tried offing him, and so since Revan no longer remembered his identity as a Sith, that left Malak to fill the power vacuum.

So it is with Krayt. He is, currently, the most powerful Sith. Even though his training to become a Sith is a little sketchy and doesn't pass with many people, training with the holocron is enough for him to be canonically considered a Sith Lord.

As for the numbers of the Sith, Sexy, the authors of the series have reported in interviews that the Sith Order is meant to number at least ten thousand after a hundred years of recruiting and training. Far easier for the Sith to fill the ranks than the Jedi.

So then at this point, is the current government on the completely opposite side of the spectrum compared to the Old Republic? Whereas it was the Jedi Order/Republic it's now Sith Order/Empire, right?

It's actually kind of interesting to note that this is actually the first time the Sith have had there own order that isn't like.. illegal. When Palps and the GE were in power there was no actual Sith Order, just him and Vader, so that doesn't count.

You would think that with thousands of sith, someone would try to take over Krayt's position, as this has always been done by the sith in the way of treachery. But for some reason the authors made it so all of these weak sith were completely loyal and wouldn't dare take over Krayt's position, not even if he was in stasis, thereby contradicting all of the characteristics of a sith.

Maybe they consider his longevity as a sign of his power, and are still too afraid to challenge him. That or they're devoted to the Sith's cause and don't want to see it damaged by in-fighting.

And itsn't it now Jedi/Galactic Alliance/Half the Empire(Fel) vs. Sith/Other Half of Empire?

Pretty much, yeah.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You would think that with thousands of sith, someone would try to take over Krayt's position, as this has always been done by the sith in the way of treachery. But for some reason the authors made it so all of these weak sith were completely loyal and wouldn't dare take over Krayt's position, not even if he was in stasis, thereby contradicting all of the characteristics of a sith.

Simply put Krayt changed the Sith, their power hungry backstabbing is what allowed them to weed out the weak, but it is ultimately almost ALWAYS their undoing. And these Sith are trained from birth mostly to be dead loyal to Krayt. Also its not like the Sith colors have been completely erased, you can already see the seeds of deception with Maladi and Nihl plotting against him as they see him growing more and more unstable, and as they learn of the old Sith. His power is keeping them in line, nothing new, Revan controlled his Empire through his sheer power, and the only one strong enough to challenge him at any level was Malak and he only dared to go against Revan because thats what Revan taught him by his own admission. So really what are you crying about?

Hows the Empire doing under Krayt? Is he as mad and as tyrannical as Palpatine or has his Jedi roots made him a marginally fair ruler?

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Simply put Krayt changed the Sith, their power hungry backstabbing is what allowed them to weed out the weak, but it is ultimately almost ALWAYS their undoing. And these Sith are trained from birth mostly to be dead loyal to Krayt. Also its not like the Sith colors have been completely erased, you can already see the seeds of deception with Maladi and Nihl plotting against him as they see him growing more and more unstable, and as they learn of the old Sith. His power is keeping them in line, nothing new, Revan controlled his Empire through his sheer power, and the only one strong enough to challenge him at any level was Malak and he only dared to go against Revan because thats what Revan taught him by his own admission. So really what are you crying about?

He didn't change the sith. He reverted back to the ancient sith ways when there would be 1 DLOTS and the rest are sith lords, and he got a full bunch of weak sith so they couldn't challenge him. And your whole loyalty logic is thrown out the window, seeing how betrayal is the way of the sith, whether it was the ancient sith, or Bane's sith. Krayt is a pretender to the thrown. The sith lords of the past don't recognize him, ergo he is a pretender, as was Jacen.

Least i prefer krayt over caedus, caedus is phucked up. He gets nifty powers all of a sudden with no source of knowledge and somehow gets shatterpoint.

Feck LOTF. Bloodlines was enough to make me stop reading.

Originally posted by Ivalice
Least i prefer krayt over caedus, caedus is phucked up. He gets nifty powers all of a sudden with no source of knowledge and somehow gets shatterpoint.

Feck LOTF. Bloodlines was enough to make me stop reading.

So putting the anger of the authors aside do you like the character of krayt over the character of Caedus?

krayt is more badasphault. hes got the viking look. Caedus is a gay piece of writing.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
So putting the anger of the authors aside do you like the character of krayt over the character of Caedus? yes

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
So putting the anger of the authors aside do you like the character of krayt over the character of Caedus?

I think he's a terrible Sith Lord in general....

They both suck, but IMO Invincible makes Caedus a little more acceptable.

My two cents: IMO, Nihilus, though I like him, was a Pretender Sith. He cared nothing at all for the Sith, and shared none of their goals, he only wished to use his power to feed the hole that is his being, and would have devoured the Sith as well.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
He didn't change the sith. He reverted back to the ancient sith ways when there would be 1 DLOTS and the rest are sith lords, and he got a full bunch of weak sith so they couldn't challenge him. And your whole loyalty logic is thrown out the window, seeing how betrayal is the way of the sith, whether it was the ancient sith, or Bane's sith. Krayt is a pretender to the thrown. The sith lords of the past don't recognize him, ergo he is a pretender, as was Jacen.

1. Revert, change, is a matter of semantics. He changed the Sith from what they were currently doing (the Ro2) in favor of what he viewed a stronger method.

2. These Sith are not purposly weak, none of them in his era currently have the power to be viewed as a threat except for Cade whom he planned to make his heir. His group contains decently powerful members, White Eyes for example was said by Lomi Plo to be strong as well as the other Sith she encountered.

Talon and Nihl can go one on one with the strongest Jedi we've seen in this series and only lose to a RAGE'D Skywalker, which well almost everyone also does. Had a Sith been powerful enough to kill Krayt, he'd be groomed to do that and take his spot. Really, your blaming the era not producing uber leet people(that we've seen in a 24 issue comic so far) and making it Krayts fault.

3. Betrayal a way of the ancients? The same ones that were Ragnos's sycophants? The same one's that kept Simus a head in a jar alive...and when he died cried out "Oh poor Simus?" The same Sith who challenged each other head on? Sadow added the betraying aspect.

4. Once again, the old Lords don't recognize him...Bane...who himself is a pretender...Nihlius whom doesn't give two shits on a stick about the Sith...and Andnedu...who we know absolutely nothing about. Ok. And yeah he's a self declared lord but every Sith save for Kun, Palpatine and Vader are also. Does it matter?

The point: who cares if he doesn't have the blessings of a bunch hybrids, and anther "pretender" whose stupid rules got broken. I'll enjoy good stories and characters over worrying about "Sith Legitimacy" cry moar jeez...

Actually it could be argued that Nihilus is more Sith than any other as he was the only one to ever totally free himself from all restrictions ( rules, stigma, expectations) and chains. It could be argued that he is the epitimy of the Sith Code.

could be, but isn't, unless you start arguing it.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
could be, but isn't, unless you start arguing it.

And you're luring him into a useless argument, why?

He secretly craves my attention. I've noticed him giving me eyes for a while.

What? I too deserve attention here!

You want it too much. Knightfa11 only falls for the slick, unfazed guys.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
He secretly craves my attention. I've noticed him giving me eyes for a while.

He gives you eyes? Like, human eyes?

Bastard just mails me keychains and post-cards. I never get any human body parts.

Actually they're too big to be human eyes. I'm thinking either Gorilla or large dog.

****.

I'm reporting him now.

:-

Ho ho, you just can't stand being snubbed in favour of a better model.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Ho ho, you just can't stand being snubbed in favour of a better model. Lol, look whose talking there, slick.

What does that mean?