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What is the super duper uber official take on this?

I get a bit irritated when Bastila "sacrifices" herself for me, whilst I am beating seven shades of shit out of Malak. He does his stasis move but I wonder if somebody can "prove" (WTF? ) that Revan could not have freed himself before my precious decides to take on Malak herself.

So, in short, could Revan have taken Malak on the Leviathan?

Or did Bastila just want all the glory?

Originally posted by Light_Sith
What is the super duper uber official take on this?

I get a bit irritated when Bastila "sacrifices" herself for me, whilst I am beating seven shades of shit out of Malak. He does his stasis move but I wonder if somebody can "prove" (WTF? ) that Revan could not have freed himself before my precious decides to take on Malak herself.

So, in short, could Revan have taken Malak on the Leviathan?

Or did Bastila just want all the glory?

malak wasn't as strong on the leviathan, that's why you utterly took him apart there. Kinda like, i think its Sion isn't as strong when you meet him on Korriban in KOTOR 2.

I know about the gameplay, but wondered if Malak officially bested Revan on this occasion.

Yes, he did.

hmmm, that would make you wonder about Revan's actual strength. I always thought of Malak as stooge before that, the one the Jedi would rather have in charge of the Sith, but if he DID defeat Revan in hand to hand combat, that would put him at least on Revan's level, and tie their duals at one each.

What you have to remember here is that Revan still hadn't re-claimed all of his memories, which means that he may not have been as powerful as he had once been.

I know bud, I know.

Just wondering if Bastila wanted to take all the glory.

Revan was between worlds but Malak did not have his precious Star Forge.

Thanks for clearing this up.

Revan was beaten.

Originally posted by Light_Sith
I know bud, I know.

Just wondering if Bastila wanted to take all the glory.

As important as Bastilla is for the republic she knew that she was the only one who could hold off Malak because in the end Revan is the only who could have stopped Malak and thus he was the most important jedi in the galaxy.

Originally posted by truejedi
hmmm, that would make you wonder about Revan's actual strength. I always thought of Malak as stooge before that, the one the Jedi would rather have in charge of the Sith, but if he DID defeat Revan in hand to hand combat, that would put him at least on Revan's level, and tie their duals at one each.

Glad that this got you curious.

For what it is worth, Malak (strangely I might add) seemed in complete control up until the very end.

I am rather fond of him and I admired his brutality. He lacked the talent of Revan but went to extremes in an attempt to get the job done.

Talked a bit too much, but no Sith is perfect.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Yes, he did.

Oh, and your answer will not go unrewarded, my good chum.

I may even grant you forgiveness for not finding me that avatar I so desired.

This question I posed had been a thorn in my butt ever since I played KOTOR.

Originally posted by truejedi
hmmm, that would make you wonder about Revan's actual strength. I always thought of Malak as stooge before that, the one the Jedi would rather have in charge of the Sith, but if he DID defeat Revan in hand to hand combat, that would put him at least on Revan's level, and tie their duals at one each.

Except by the fact that on their next encounter, which was on the Star Forge and with Malak being empowered by it, Revan defeated him without much difficulty.

Originally posted by Lt. Valerian
Revan defeated him without much difficulty.
There is no proof that Malak was beaten without much difficulty.

Maybe not 'without much difficulty', but it was not as incredibly hard for him as many make it out be. And the point still stands: Revan is quite simply superior to Malak. If Malak would not have been powered up by the SF, Revan would have won much more easily.

Originally posted by Light_Sith
I know about the gameplay, but wondered if Malak officially bested Revan on this occasion.

i will give the simple and logical answer

yes revan did beat malak on the leviathan, thats why instead of finishing the duel that you were beating him in, he used stasis and fled.
bastilla's "sacrifice" was merely a plot device leading to her fall to the dark side which was meant to enhance the story and make gameplay longer and more interesting.

had bastilla not intervened, malak would have lost but with some difficulty. it wont be a cake walk for the revan who was stunned momentarily with stasis. but i still have revan taking this one.

Originally posted by Lt. Valerian
Maybe not 'without much difficulty', but it was not as incredibly hard for him as many make it out be.
He was described as "nearly unstoppable."

Yes, 'nearly unstoppable' for virtually everyone... except Revan.

Considering that Malak is on Dooku's level and arguably more powerful than the count while on the star forge and Revan is below Yoda, I fail to see how you think everyone's opinion of the difference of power is inaccurate.

So you're saying Revan is more powerful than Count Dooku?

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
He was described as "nearly unstoppable." Nearly unstoppable as in
- A hard fight
- Malaks military still putting up a very good fight
- Other things

Exactly. The quote is referring to Malak's Empire in general, not individually... Although, it is true that the only person with the power to defeat him was Revan.

1) Where is this conjecture that Revan defeated Malak "without much difficulty" coming from? We have no details on the battle, except for its outcome.

2) When was Malak proven to be on Count Dooku's level? I've seen Escape post this once, but there's really very little to support the claim, especially since Dooku is hands-down one of the most powerful Jedi or Sith in the saga.

1) When Revan and Malak fought on the Star Forge, in order for Malak to resist long enough against Revan, he drained the life energy from more than five Jedi. If he had not absorbed the energy from a single Jedi, Malak would have been killed with ease.

2) Yes, I agree. We need more evidence to support this.

Originally posted by Man of Christ
i will give the simple and logical answer

yes revan did beat malak on the leviathan, thats why instead of finishing the duel that you were beating him in, he used stasis and fled.
bastilla's "sacrifice" was merely a plot device leading to her fall to the dark side which was meant to enhance the story and make gameplay longer and more interesting.

had bastilla not intervened, malak would have lost but with some difficulty. it wont be a cake walk for the revan who was stunned momentarily with stasis. but i still have revan taking this one.


Hmp.

I would have appreciated Carth shutting his insolent mouth instead of claiming that Malak would have killed my character if Bastila had not intervened.

He should have said that Bastila lost her head and acted in an irrational manner, stopping my character from carving Malak into small pieces.

I do not take kindly to having my character - a character that I put time into making when I should have been doing more productive things - being made to sound weak in front of the other virtual characters because of poor writing.

Originally posted by Lt. Valerian
So you're saying Revan is more powerful than Count Dooku?

Imo yes(very,very tough fight none the less),though there was the debate going on a few weeks ago that really was never resolved.


^Star wars Databank

I believe that it was only referring to him, due to the previous two sentences otherwise if the armada was suppose to be nearly unstoppable then why not say "the sith", regardless of the means of the quote I still believe that the fight between Revan and Malak was in no way an easy fight,Malak is an accomplished sith and by replenishing his life force makes the duel even harder on Revan. So even with the fight being an unknown I don't seee why it would not be hard.

The idea that Malak was a little less than Dooku but stronger than Dooku while on the star forge, I believe started from an older thread, I was the one who actually disagreed with this, but I am by no means a Dooku expert or even close to being one so I couldn't debate him. Though I don think Malak is in the same league as Dooku regardless if he is weaker or stroner.

Malak was nearly unstoppable, but the Republic emerged from that epic conflict victorious, as the Star Forge was eventually destroyed.

That was referring to his military. Not individually.

It probably came from the fact that Revan beat Malak about 5 times in a row after powering through the Star Forge, stopped to chat with him then walked out smiling.
Beating someone 5 or 6 times in a row immediatly after one another is my idea of ultimate pwnage.

Uber pwnage. With a liberal sprinkling of humiliation to boot.

Yes, I fail to see when does the fight indicate it was a very tough duel for Revan.



Actually, I would agree with you on that one. I consider Revan slightly below the likes of Yoda and Sidious in terms of Force power, and he is, after all, one of the best duelists of the era. It's up for a debate. Maybe I'll make a thread about this.

However, I disagree with what you say about Malak being the Count's equal.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
It probably came from the fact that Revan beat Malak about 5 times in a row after powering through the Star Forge, stopped to chat with him then walked out smiling.
Beating someone 5 or 6 times in a row immediatly after one another is my idea of ultimate pwnage.

Gameplay buddy, it is unknown how many times the Malak replenished his life force so stop throwing out bs when you KNOW the only known details of the fight is this:

1.At some point in the duel they engaged in lightsaber combat and Revan emerged the victor, that is the most likely explanation on how this duel ended. (as seen in qel droma's vision)

2.For all all you know Malak could have drained the life force from more than one jedi at a time. But he did do it at least once as the databank says.

He still did it, which immediately tells us he NEEDED to do it in order to keep fighting. And in the image of Revan standing over Malak's corpse I really don't see any wounds or injuries on him...

I know what you mean, but it just doesn't seem likely that he almost died or that it was an epic fight. Though, you didn't consider this fight extremely close neither, did you? I you didn't, then how would you say it happened?

I have tried to imagine a realistic fight between the two.

Not once.

Not twice.

But three - yes - *three* times.

And yet, I do not have a satisfying fight in my head.

Some authority better clear this up soon.

Originally posted by Light_Sith
Hmp.

I would have appreciated Carth shutting his insolent mouth instead of claiming that Malak would have killed my character if Bastila had not intervened.

He should have said that Bastila lost her head and acted in an irrational manner, stopping my character from carving Malak into small pieces.

I do not take kindly to having my character - a character that I put time into making when I should have been doing more productive things - being made to sound weak in front of the other virtual characters because of poor writing.

i agree 100%
plus at this point in the game, i use revan all the time cuz bastilla is weaker, so if if carth argues i would have lost, why did the weaker bastilla need to intervene lol

Fine, but beating someone twice in a row is still bloody good, especially if you take into consideration all that Revan had previously done without rest. Such as: Powering through the SF, Killing dozens (I think you actually have to kill about 50-100 people there but didn't count) of Sith, Elite troops and Driods, Defeating either a SF enhanced Bastila or the 3 best Sith in Malak's order, then destroying the room with the respawning driods. There is also a possibility that Revan also did all of this straight after taking out the Rakatan temple, with again dozens of Sith and Bastila/the two jedi to kill.
So you'll forgive me if I cling to the 'delusion' that Revan is very impressive and that she pwned Malak



I also agree.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Fine, but beating someone twice in a row is still bloody good,

What you don't get is is that you don't know how much "life" Malak really has and the same goes for Revan for that matter. Like I said before Malak and Revan could have been a near stand still and Malak could have tried to get an advantage by draining the jedi but his real "life" doesn't necessarily have to be "almost empty"






These are impressive.



Except for the fact that he had the help of Jolee and Juhani at the temple and I highly doubt that the other party members just stayed back at the ship and did not help (until the fight with Bastilla) while Revan is trying to save the galaxy.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Fine, but beating someone twice in a row is still bloody good, especially if you take into consideration all that Revan had previously done without rest.He wasn't "beaten twice in a row." SW continuity doesn't play out like the video game, Exodus. There's no HP bar; when someone is beaten, they're either maimed, humiliated, unconscious, or dead. Revan's not an idiot, and considering he and Malak were the only two living Force-users who had ever exerted any degree of control over the Star Forge, I highly doubt that he'd be willing to "beat" Malak and then let him empower himself again and prolong the conflict. The fact that Malak and his forces were described as "nearly unstoppable" would also imply that Revan isn't treating this as a joke.


Gameplay, doesn't matter. By this logic, Jaden Korr has more dueling experience than anyone in the mythos.

As it is, there're far more canon cutscenes and clips featuring some form of confrontation between Jaden and a Force-wielding enemy in JA than there are for Revan in KotOR.

No, I won't, because it has no basis. Revan - canonically male, and therefore a "he" - was logically very impressive, and obviously Malak's superior, but quite contrary to your assertions everything points to their battle, and the larger one taking place around them, as being epic.

Originally posted by Light_Sith
Hmp.

I would have appreciated Carth shutting his insolent mouth instead of claiming that Malak would have killed my character if Bastila had not intervened.

He should have said that Bastila lost her head and acted in an irrational manner, stopping my character from carving Malak into small pieces.

I do not take kindly to having my character - a character that I put time into making when I should have been doing more productive things - being made to sound weak in front of the other virtual characters because of poor writing.

^ Hey, no dissing The Drew's writing.

Originally posted by Kapton JAC
^ Hey, no dissing The Drew's writing.

It would appear that "The Drew" dissed me - a far greater crime.

He shall have to learn to be satisfied with me buying two of his books.

No, everything points to Revan being very tired and still beating Malak. Then Malak gets up again and Revan smacks him down again (and potentially again and again etc).

Even if Revan did immediately drain all the bodies, it would still be immensely impressive to do this whilst holding off a pissed-off Sith Lord and shows Revans absolute superiority.



Firstly, its only possible to activate the cutscene by beating Malak once. The way I see this happening is with you disarming him or disabling him.
Secondly, Revan had no idea of what Malak was about to do, so he didn't 'let' him do anything.
Thirdly, its very rude to cut your ex-best friends head off in mid-sentence (trust me, I've had a few telling offs about that)
Fourthly, when Malak talks to you, he recognises your clear superiority to him by acknowledging that you are better than you used to be, and D Revan is almost certainly better or on par with D Malak. He might also admit that you beat him, but the memories are faint.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
No, everything points to Revan being very tiredBeing really tired? This being based on your assertion that Revan fought through hundreds of droids and Sith, a point that you appear to have dropped in face of the JA comparison.

Besides, when have you seen a powerful Jedi or Sith "tire out" against considerably weaker opponents? Luke literally fought through an army of Yuuzhan Vong, killed seven or eight of their elite slayers, and still managed to kill by far the greatest warrior of their kind. Fatigue wasn't even a factor. Now, Revan's no Skywalker, but the droids and Jedi he faced would not have been nearly as numerous or even as deadly as the hordes of Vong Luke faced.

Again, this is your take on it, and not how SW continuity plays out. There are no life bars. If Revan had the chance to kill Malak, he would have, end of story.



Who's arguing against Revan's superiority? Stop putting words in my mouth, especially since I already clarified this twice in anticipation of this. If you're not going to read, or if you don't bother acknowledging the fact that your points (read: unsupported, biased conjecture) have already been addressed, then don't reply. It's that simple.

Also, no one said anything about Revan "draining" the bodies; the player has the option of simply destroying the tanks and letting the Jedis' spirits go free.

Addressed.

Right. So he disarmed, disabled, or dropped his life bar down to zero, then decided to stand their and watch Malak drain the life out of a fellow Jedi, while not bothering to do anything about it. That makes sense.
So your entire argument revolves around gameplay, putting words in my mouth, pretending this is 'Star Wars According to Exodus,' and PIS.

Embarassing. Actually, I don't even see why you're arguing; everyone agrees that Revan was Malak's superior, it's just that you seem to think - without any canon support or logical reasoning - that Revan curbstomped him on the Star Forge, when absolutely nothing backs that conclusion.

Jesus christ Exodus, the Battle was described as "epic". Look that up in the dictionary. Epic=/=Curbstomp.

Originally posted by Light_Sith
It would appear that "The Drew" dissed me - a far greater crime.

He shall have to learn to be satisfied with me buying two of his books.

How did The Drew diss you? By making an exelent Star Wars game and two awesome books?