Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

this sprang from a different discussion. thoughts?

I say galctus. Evn when not fully powered he should be above a cube being

Until I see a scan of 'standard' Galactus doing something remotely close to this:

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/5500/kubik1kq5.th.jpg


Kubik wins, easily.

I was just goin to post that

Kubik is a reality warper. Kubik FTW

Originally posted by guy222
I was just goin to post that

Kubik is a reality warper. Kubik FTW

So is Galactus, nah?

Galactus is a reality warper?

Waits for Utrigita and Tenebrous

My Galactus buddies

Yes he is Guy Doom showed that when he stole Galactus powers doing the secret wars, Reality wars been warped around doom by his thoughts.

Well Tenebrous I'm sure will be here.

We are yes

As for the battle standard galactus is difficult to make a accurate judgement from, The standard Galactus can either get his ass kicked by Thing ore causing multiversal destruction in a battle with Agamotto which none of them was taking very serious. Galan said that Until we see a Standard Galactus performing that Feat ore something close to it he would say Kubik, I have never seen the Celestials perform any feat that is close to what Kubik performed if it wasn't for Kubik own words I would place him above the Celestials too. I will say that I haven't seen many impressive feats from the Watchers on the scope of the Celestials yet they are widely regarded as roughly equals with a slight edge to the single Celestial against the Single Watcher yet no feats that place them close to Kubik. We have however seen Galactus destroy a watcher without much difficulty I know this sounds like abc logic and I admit that it's partial abc logic, but I will like to remind that Galactus have showed that he can absorb a entire dimension Mephistos to be exact, and I would like to make a second observation that it was Galactus with Gamora as a scapel that managed to break the Hold Magus had over Eternity with five Cosmic Cubes, and the Cosmic cubes are more powerful then the sentient cubes and he broked five of those power. Now that is imo more impressive then Kubik warping a (pocket???) universe.

Celestials>Watchers. IMO, Celestials by a wide margin

Uatu seemed powerless when the Monolith Gatherer arrived and we all know happened when the Celestials and Watchers faught. Exitar arrived and he killed the large bald Watcher

Originally posted by guy222
and we all know happened when the Celestials and Watchers faught. Exitar arrived and he killed the large bald Watcher Only after Exitar spent "several thousand years" gathering energy for the sole purpose of wiping out the Watchers.

Originally posted by guy222
Celestials>Watchers. IMO, Celestials by a wide margin

Uatu seemed powerless when the Monolith Gatherer arrived and we all know happened when the Celestials and Watchers faught. Exitar arrived and he killed the large bald Watcher

Yes as a combined Race then the margin expand, but a single celestial against a single Watcher should be close with a win to the Celestial.

remember that he couldn't interven even if he wanted

After Gathering his energy for Eons to destroy the entire race which more ore less was gathered on the same Planet and yet he had to gather energy for Eons, It speaks volume for what it takes to defeat the watchers But the war would undoubtebly have ended with a win to the Celestials if Sue hadn't destroyed Exitar.

Originally posted by Utrigita

Now that is imo more impressive then Kubik warping a (pocket???) universe.
Actually, that's a whole Universe.

Beyonder encompasses an entire Universe unto himself.

Kubik is below a Celestial according to his own words.

The Cosmic Cube wins this fight.

Kubik.

Kubik rhymes with something hair that grows excessively around some one's midsection...

Pubic wins.

Originally posted by guy222
Galactus is a reality warper?

Waits for Utrigita and Tenebrous

My Galactus buddies

Guy, for some reason, I KNEW you'd mention the "bald watcher" LOL

Anyway....

....Kubik has stated Celestials>>Kubik, Kosmos, Glorian, and the other Cube Beings...

...Kubik also told Kosmos, during Kubik's cosmology lesson, that the Celestials that Kosmos thought she remembered when she battled them as the beyonder, were mere shadows that were sent by "The Great Powers." However, "they" (ambiguous "they"..may refer to the Celestials that were sent by the Great Powers, or the Great Powers themselves) sometimes deign to interact with such insignificant creatures such as themselves (meaning, Kubik and Kosmos)

....Next few pages after that, Kubik reveals who the Great Powers are....Living Tribunal, Lord Chaos, Master Order, Eternity...and...Big G

so if we go by those scans......it's Big G.

Feat-wise, G has never reached into some other cosmic being's beer gut and broke out a sphere-sized universe.

Cosmic containment units>Cosmic cube beings...like Utrigita said Eternity was catatonic from the power of 5 containment units...G freed him using Gamora as a tool. Magus blew up G's ship with his 5 containment units, killing G. Big G reconstituted himself.

Originally posted by Tenebrous

....Kubik has stated Celestials>>Kubik, Kosmos, Glorian, and the other Cube Beings...
Actually Molecule Man is beyond Cube beings as well.

Originally posted by Tenebrous

...Kubik also told Kosmos, during Kubik's cosmology lesson, that the Celestials that Kosmos thought she remembered when she battled them as the beyonder, were mere shadows that were sent by "The Great Powers." However, "they" (ambiguous "they"..may refer to the Celestials that were sent by the Great Powers, or the Great Powers themselves) sometimes deign to interact with such insignificant creatures such as themselves (meaning, Kubik and Kosmos)

....Next few pages after that, Kubik reveals who the Great Powers are....Living Tribunal, Lord Chaos, Master Order, Eternity...and...Big G

so if we go by those scans......it's Big G.


Originally posted by Tenebrous

Cosmic containment units>Cosmic cube beings...
True that.
Originally posted by Tenebrous

like Utrigita said,
Eternity was catatonic from the power of 5 containment units...
G freed him using Gamora as a tool.
That's not exactly accurate friend.

The 5 CCU's were stolen by the Goddess by the time Galactus operated:

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/7950/g2rn8.th.jpg


A few pages later Gamora returns from freeing Eternity.
(the operation was depicted on panel in Warlock #9 - 1 week later after IW#5)

The power of the Cubes aren't mentioned once,
and clearly Eternity/Infinity's essence was bonded in catatonia,
not by the Cubes themselves.

Which is inconsequential anyway cause the Cubes were not even in Magus' control anymore.

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/5476/79198077fv9.th.jpg
...........................................................................................................

Eternity was ko'd by CCU, and left bonded in catatonia,
but he was not being held by the power of the CCU's.

The CCU's were busy merging the 616 Reality with the duplicate 616 Universe they created:

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/3462/g5zx4.th.jpg



This is why Magus (with the IG) later said:

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/8180/myw4.th.jpg

"My takeover of your Actuality,

USING my now missing Cosmic Containment Units,
would have taken Hours to Accomplish"

Originally posted by Tenebrous

Magus blew up G's ship with his 5 containment units,
killing G. Big G reconstituted himself.
Magus was never intending on killing Galactus though,'he wanted Galactus to live in fact,
for Galactus played a role in his evil plans:

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/2660/g3nn5.th.jpg

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/1863/g4wb4.th.jpg
...........................................................................................................

Galactus, imo, is above Cube beings,
but Cosmic Containment Units are far beyond Galactus,
as they are above even Eternity in power.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Yes he is Guy Doom showed that when he stole Galactus powers doing the secret wars, Reality wars been warped around doom by his thoughts.

Well Tenebrous I'm sure will be here.

We are yes

As for the battle standard galactus is difficult to make a accurate judgement from, The standard Galactus can either get his ass kicked by Thing ore causing multiversal destruction in a battle with Agamotto which none of them was taking very serious. Galan said that Until we see a Standard Galactus performing that Feat ore something close to it he would say Kubik, I have never seen the Celestials perform any feat that is close to what Kubik performed if it wasn't for Kubik own words I would place him above the Celestials too. I will say that I haven't seen many impressive feats from the Watchers on the scope of the Celestials yet they are widely regarded as roughly equals with a slight edge to the single Celestial against the Single Watcher yet no feats that place them close to Kubik. We have however seen Galactus destroy a watcher without much difficulty I know this sounds like abc logic and I admit that it's partial abc logic, but I will like to remind that Galactus have showed that he can absorb a entire dimension Mephistos to be exact, and I would like to make a second observation that it was Galactus with Gamora as a scapel that managed to break the Hold Magus had over Eternity with five Cosmic Cubes, and the Cosmic cubes are more powerful then the sentient cubes and he broked five of those power. Now that is imo more impressive then Kubik warping a (pocket???) universe.

Here ya go, my friend

Kubik's words

http://i117.imagethrust.com/t/832220/fantasticfourannual2645st.jpg http://i110.imagethrust.com/t/832221/fantasticfourannual2646st.jpg http://i103.imagethrust.com/t/832222/fantasticfourannual2647st.jpg http://i114.imagethrust.com/t/832223/fantasticfourannual2648st.jpg

We should all realize that the Celestials created Mankind in Marvel,
and Mankind will one day have the LT (and all the abstracts) bowing to them:

http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/4708/bowxv9.th.jpg


In fact,
the destiny of Mankind of Earth 616,
is to become ONE with the infinite Multiverse,
that encompasses the ever expansion that is Eternity:

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1227/et1uh0.th.jpg

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/1182/et3ie5.th.jpg

I suppose this means all of 616's Mankind will become Gods unto themselves,
their own UniverseS,
where time-space is directed by they themselves,
time-space may even be meaningless,
as conceptual ideas will be dependent,
on the Human God that manages his/her corner of infinity.

I love the ending with Eternity

Originally posted by Mr Master


That's not exactly accurate friend.

The 5 CCU's were stolen by the Goddess by the time Galactus operated:

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/7950/g2rn8.th.jpg


A few pages later Gamora returns from freeing Eternity.
(the operation was depicted on panel in Warlock #9 - 1 week later after IW#5)

The power of the Cubes aren't mentioned once,
and clearly Eternity/Infinity's essence was bonded in catatonia,
not by the Cubes themselves.

Which is inconsequential anyway cause the Cubes were not even in Magus' control anymore.

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/5476/79198077fv9.th.jpg
...........................................................................................................

Eternity was ko'd by CCU, and left bonded in catatonia,
but he was not being held by the power of the CCU's.

The CCU's were busy merging the 616 Reality with the duplicate 616 Universe they created:

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/3462/g5zx4.th.jpg



This is why Magus (with the IG) later said:

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/8180/myw4.th.jpg

"My takeover of your Actuality,

USING my now missing Cosmic Containment Units,
would have taken Hours to Accomplish"


Magus was never intending on killing Galactus though,'he wanted Galactus to live in fact,
for Galactus played a role in his evil plans:

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/2660/g3nn5.th.jpg

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/1863/g4wb4.th.jpg
...........................................................................................................

Galactus, imo, is above Cube beings,
but Cosmic Containment Units are far beyond Galactus,
as they are above even Eternity in power.

Ah but see I will prove that Utrigita and I are correct, with one simple scan!

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/7232/warlockinfinitywatch090ui4.th.jpg

Publication-wise, warlock and infinity watch may have been released a week after IW#5...but conveniently the editor has provided us with the info box that says Warlock & Infinity Watch#9, where Galactus frees Eternity, takes place between Infinity War #4 (Doom and Kang peep the 5 CCU's) and Infinity War#5 (Magus discovers their theft). So there you have it!

Originally posted by Tenebrous

Ah but see I will prove that Utrigita and I are correct, with one simple scan!
Not exactly, but there's really no arguing that CCU > Galactus.
So basically there can be no scan that even remotely suggest Galactus > CCU.
Originally posted by Tenebrous

Publication-wise, warlock and infinity watch may have been released a week after IW#5...but conveniently the editor has provided us with the info box that says Warlock & Infinity Watch#9, where Galactus frees Eternity, takes place between Infinity War #4 (Doom and Kang peep the 5 CCU's) and Infinity War#5 (Magus discovers their theft). So there you have it!
They can say that, but On Panel it happened in #05 (Infinity War)
in fact, it began deep in #05, Galactus hadn't even sent Gamora till page 14.

Besides that,

again,
the CCU's were not keeping Eternity catatonic,
the CCU's only ko'd Eternity, he remained ko'd in catatonia.

The CCU's were busy merging the 616 Reality
with the duplicate 616 Universe they had created. (as I presented already)

The power required to do that would smite Galactus,
obviously the Cubes were not what Galactus overpowered during the operation,
it was a bond of catatonia,
which doesn't really matter cause the Cubes were stolen by then anyway.

The operation began in issue #5,
in issue #5 we discover the Cubes had been stolen previously:

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/3665/514zw2.th.jpg
(page 14 - Infinity War #5)

Mr Master,just asking but are you aware that the Celestials creating man has appeared to have been retconned?

Hey Martian

The latest Thor issue about Odin. They made some mistakes with that issue. Its in Thor...so

Celestials will still kick Odin's ass if he goes up against the 6th Celestial Host

Hey Guy,I believe that Celestials making humans was also retconned in the Latest Eternals mini.

Gaiman's run

Originally posted by Martian_mind

Mr Master,just asking
but are you aware that the Celestials creating man has appeared to have been retconned?
I'm not buying that one statement by Odin.

Celestials have been depicted on panel working,
they have historically carried that stamp on their shoulders,
and they are officially confirmed to have manipulated Humanity's existence in bios.

In order for a retcon to have merit,
it has to be depicted on panel with action,
otherwise it's empty hyperbole.

Ay,But I Think Gaiman may have retconned it in the recent Eternals mini.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually Molecule Man is beyond Cube beings as well.





True that.

That's not exactly accurate friend.

The 5 CCU's were stolen by the Goddess by the time Galactus operated:

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/7950/g2rn8.th.jpg


A few pages later Gamora returns from freeing Eternity.
(the operation was depicted on panel in Warlock #9 - 1 week later after IW#5)

The power of the Cubes aren't mentioned once,
and clearly Eternity/Infinity's essence was bonded in catatonia,
not by the Cubes themselves.

Which is inconsequential anyway cause the Cubes were not even in Magus' control anymore.

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/5476/79198077fv9.th.jpg
...........................................................................................................

Eternity was ko'd by CCU, and left bonded in catatonia,
but he was not being held by the power of the CCU's.

The CCU's were busy merging the 616 Reality with the duplicate 616 Universe they created:

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/3462/g5zx4.th.jpg



This is why Magus (with the IG) later said:

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/8180/myw4.th.jpg

"My takeover of your Actuality,

USING my now missing Cosmic Containment Units,
would have taken Hours to Accomplish"


Magus was never intending on killing Galactus though,'he wanted Galactus to live in fact,
for Galactus played a role in his evil plans:

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/2660/g3nn5.th.jpg

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/1863/g4wb4.th.jpg
...........................................................................................................

Galactus, imo, is above Cube beings,
but Cosmic Containment Units are far beyond Galactus,
as they are above even Eternity in power.

Never the less it was the five cubes that caused Eternity to be knocked out, and imo kept him catatonic els he would have escaped the stasis by himself, and not requiring outside help in order to be seperated from Infinity. And imo master It's a little strange statement that you don't think that the CCU can accomplishe more then one feat of the time, It's imo full possible that the CCU's was still holding Eternity in his Catatonic state with perhaps a minimum of there energy while the rest was being diverted to other tasks, The Goddess stealing them, doesn't imo show that the cubes would no longer use there energy on Eternity.

imo

Originally posted by Mr Master
Not exactly, but there's really no arguing that CCU > Galactus.
So basically there can be no scan that even remotely suggest Galactus > CCU.
No, no one was arguing that. A>B is completely different, from A having complete dominance over B (i.e. there are properties of B that can effect the works of property A)



Disagree. You're taking the sequence on absolute terms, meaning chronological events in the comics mirror chronological publication. All throughout Infinity War there were tie-ins that over-lapped with individual issues in the Infinity war limited series. Warlock#10 featured Thanos vs. Thanos in its entirety, ending with true Thanos standing before Magus' door. Yet Thanos doesn't even open the door till page 12 in Infinity War #6....highly unlikely that Thanos stands at the doorstep from the time Warlock 10 ended to page 12 of IW5 (during which time the heroes fight amongst each other, Galactus gathers the heroes to assault Magus' fortress, and Magus uses the IG to imprison all of them).

There's also the fact that the "they" you reference to are in fact one and the same....Starlin wrote Warlock 9 and 10....and there was the same editor for Warlock (craig anderson) as for the Infinity War series.

Magus discovers the cubes stolen, and two pages afterwards we see Gamora expelled from Eternity, lying on the ground. If we really want to be technical, in Warlock 9, going from the exact point in time (i.e., Gamora being expelled) G/Gamora had freed Eternity/Infinity 4 pages prior. But the point is moot....all of warlock 9 is stated to occur between IW4 and IW5, as per Jim Starlin and Craig Anderson.

What happens in IW5 is simply recounting events. Why recounting? If they did not recount events in the limited series proper, and if you did not buy Warlock 9 (stated by Warlock and Infinity Watch/Infinity War writer Jim Starlin to take place between IW4 and IW5), you would never have known that Galactus freed Eternity. It's just that simple. Replicating events in the limited series proper allows readers who missed out on the tie-ins to catch up on the plot. Necessarily, there's chronological over-lap. That's my point, and I in the inclination that my point is correct because it agrees with the writer/creator's intentions of the entire story-arc, regardless of the limitations of publishing.



Induced by the power of the containment units. In IW#1 G already observed how an external force of incredible power rendered Eternity catatonic. Maintaining wasn't my contention, inducement was my contention. I don't know if containment units need to "maintain" their granted wishes (meaning, grant the wish, then "maintain" the wish so it continues to exist). I don't think they are. My interpretation: Magus wished for Eternity to be catatonic, and units obliged. Therefore Eternity was rendered catatonic by the units' power (perhaps not collective power, but by their power nonetheless).



Per Jim Starlin, that's simply incorrect friend.

Originally posted by Utrigita

Never the less it was the five cubes that caused Eternity to be knocked out,
and imo kept him catatonic els he would have escaped the stasis by himself,
and not requiring outside help in order to be seperated from Infinity.
Magus never intended for Eternity to stay KO'd anyway,
so one way or another friend,
the Cubes were programmed to let Eternity go,
with or without Galactus.

Originally posted by Utrigita

And imo master It's a little strange statement
that you don't think that the CCU can accomplishe more then one feat of the time, It's imo full possible that the CCU's was still holding Eternity in his Catatonic state with perhaps a minimum of there energy while the rest was being diverted to other tasks, The Goddess stealing them, doesn't imo show that the cubes would no longer use there energy on Eternity.

imo
Without the Cubes being manipulated by a wielder's wishes,
they have no reason to bound Eternity.

In fact, by nature,
the Cubes are initially programmed to serve reality positively.

Aside from that,
it was in Magus' interest that Eternity be freed,
so I doubt he would've bounded Eternity to the point where Galactus couldn't free him.

Originally posted by Tenebrous

No, no one was arguing that. A>B is completely different, from A having complete dominance over B (i.e. there are properties of B that can effect the works of property A)
Cool, still CCU > Galactus.

Originally posted by Tenebrous

Disagree. You're taking the sequence on absolute terms, meaning chronological events in the comics mirror chronological publication. All throughout Infinity War there were tie-ins that over-lapped with individual issues in the Infinity war limited series. Warlock#10 featured Thanos vs. Thanos in its entirety, ending with true Thanos standing before Magus' door. Yet Thanos doesn't even open the door till page 12 in Infinity War #6....highly unlikely that Thanos stands at the doorstep from the time Warlock 10 ended to page 12 of IW5 (during which time the heroes fight amongst each other, Galactus gathers the heroes to assault Magus' fortress, and Magus uses the IG to imprison all of them).

There's also the fact that the "they" you reference to are in fact one and the same....Starlin wrote Warlock 9 and 10....and there was the same editor for Warlock (craig anderson) as for the Infinity War series.

Magus discovers the cubes stolen, and two pages afterwards we see Gamora expelled from Eternity, lying on the ground. If we really want to be technical, in Warlock 9, going from the exact point in time (i.e., Gamora being expelled) G/Gamora had freed Eternity/Infinity 4 pages prior. But the point is moot....all of warlock 9 is stated to occur between IW4 and IW5, as per Jim Starlin and Craig Anderson.

What happens in IW5 is simply recounting events. Why recounting? If they did not recount events in the limited series proper, and if you did not buy Warlock 9 (stated by Warlock and Infinity Watch/Infinity War writer Jim Starlin to take place between IW4 and IW5), you would never have known that Galactus freed Eternity. It's just that simple. Replicating events in the limited series proper allows readers who missed out on the tie-ins to catch up on the plot. Necessarily, there's chronological over-lap. That's my point, and I in the inclination that my point is correct because it agrees with the writer/creator's intentions of the entire story-arc, regardless of the limitations of publishing.
T ... I always enjoy your posts,(you're a true debater)
but the IG saga is one of my favorite, and if you know me,
you know I'm a Marvel Cosmic aficionado, Starlin fan since the 80's.

But this post doesn't change this fact:

The operation began in issue #5,
in issue #5 we discover the Cubes had been stolen previously:

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/3665/514zw2.th.jpg
(page 14 - Infinity War #5)

.....................................................................

Aside from that,
I'll quickly prove how it was in Magus' interest for Galactus to FREE Eternity,
so even IF they would've been under Magus' control during the operation,
Magus would've surely allowed Galactus to succeed.

Originally posted by Tenebrous

Induced by the power of the containment units. In IW#1 G already observed how an external force of incredible power rendered Eternity catatonic. Maintaining wasn't my contention, inducement was my contention. I don't know if containment units need to "maintain" their granted wishes (meaning, grant the wish, then "maintain" the wish so it continues to exist). I don't think they are. My interpretation: Magus wished for Eternity to be catatonic, and units obliged. Therefore Eternity was rendered catatonic by the units' power (perhaps not collective power, but by their power nonetheless).
POf course Eternity was ko'd by the Cubes,
but the Cubes didn't have to keep Eternity ko'd.

But like I said, aside from that,
it was Magus' interest for Galactus to FREE Eternity,
so even IF they would've been under Magus' control during the operation,
Magus would've surely allowed Galactus to succeed.

Originally posted by Tenebrous

Per Jim Starlin, that's simply incorrect friend.
Per Jim Starlin?

Jim is not gonna tell me the operation began before IW#5 Page 14,
when On Panel it clearly began in IW#5 page 14.

Anywho,
the reason Jim says the events took place between issue #4 and 5,
is because Galactus and Gamora reached Eternity at the end of issue#4,
but all the action took place in #5.

Here's the On Panel PROOF,

Magus wanted Galactus to free Eternity,
so even if Magus had control of the Cubes during Galactus' rescue mission,
Magus would've seen to it that Galactus succeeded.

............................................................................................................

Galactus and Eternity were only pawns in Magus' plans,
he wanted to keep Eternity KO'd until Galactus played his role in freeing him,
he wanted Galactus to ask Eternity to make the reconstitution of the Gems effective,
because ONLY Eternity's word was able to sway the LT.

It was all part of his plan.
............................................................................................................

Eternity is KO'd .. Magus watches as the LT arrives,
yes, even the LT is part of the Magus' plan:

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/9210/16251650rz3.th.jpg

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7811/59598240ho4.th.jpg

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/5998/48858041tb0.th.jpg

............................................................................................................

Magus wanted the LT to arrive:

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8084/18608211sf5.th.jpg

............................................................................................................

After Magus steals the IG from Warlock,
Warlock tells Magus the IG doesn't work,

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/8881/96852236sw0.th.jpg

............................................................................................................

But like I said,
Eternity getting KO'd is only part of Magus's plan,
Magus is counting on Galactus freeing Eternity,
so in desperation they can ignite the IG, (because Galactus thinks Warlock has it)
but in fact, Magus has it:

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8342/63742649ey8.th.jpg


Again,

Magus was always aware of what Galactus was doing with Gamora,
it was part of his plan:

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/2356/25898010fh1.th.jpg

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/7808/58160120tu0.th.jpg

............................................................................................................

Even the LT played a role in Magus' plans.
he even shielded his presence from the LT with the 5 CCU's,
on top of the fact that the 5 CCUs were merging 616 and its duplicate.

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7988/87013409rj3.th.jpg

............................................................................................................



continues in the next post ...

Magus is counting on Galactus freeing Eternity,
so in desperation they can ignite the IG,
(because Galactus thinks Warlock has it) to counter the 5 CCUs
but in fact, Magus has the IG:

............................................................................................................

This is why Galactus was the most important piece in Magus' chess game,
Galactus was supposed to free Eternity,
it was in Magus' interest:

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3862/10lc7.th.jpg


He WANTED to KO Eternity,
so Galactus could free Eternity,
so Galactus could ask Eternity to make the IG function with a phrase,
so Magus could become the wielder of the IG:

(On Panel proof)

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/9913/11ho0.th.jpg

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/35/12da9.th.jpg

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6203/13wb0.th.jpg

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/7595/14vj4.th.jpg

You guys rock. lots of good information.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
You guys rock. lots of good information.

I agree, lots of good debaters in this thread Always good to learn.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Magus never intended for Eternity to stay KO'd anyway,
so one way or another friend,
the Cubes were programmed to let Eternity go,
with or without Galactus.

Something doesn't quiet fit here master, I believe that you earlier said that the cubes was on longer in effect towards eternity duo to the Cubes being stolen by Goddess, so obviously the cubes didn't let Eternity by themselves, Galactus was needed to perform the feat.

Without the Cubes being manipulated by a wielder's wishes,
they have no reason to bound Eternity.

Yet he remained Catatonic.

In fact, by nature,
the Cubes are initially programmed to serve reality positively.

Aside from that,
it was in Magus' interest that Eternity be freed,
so I doubt he would've bounded Eternity to the point where Galactus couldn't free him.

I know, but the entire argument isn't based on whether ore not the CCU>Galactus which they does the question if is Galactus can break such a enchanment performed by the CCU, it's no more different then SS breaking free Galactus from holding in the Annihilation which was Galactus own energy used Does that mean that SS>Galactus no.

Taking Kubik

Originally posted by Utrigita

Something doesn't quiet fit here master,
I believe that you earlier said
that the cubes was on longer in effect towards eternity duo to the Cubes being stolen by Goddess,
Right, I did say that.

Then to give your post the benefit off the doubt,
I said,

even if the Cubes were under Magus' control at the time of Galactus' operation,
it did NOT matter,
cause it was in Magus' INTEREST for Galactus to free Eternity,
bacause that was part of the Magus' plan.

So in fact, if the Cubes were holding Eternity in catatonia,
I'm 100% confident,
Magus allowed Galactus to be able to free Eternity from his bonds,
because that WAS Magus' PLAN all along.

(there's NO arguing this)

Surely you couldn't have missed all the On Panel proof I posted above,
the evidence is indisputable.

Originally posted by Utrigita

so obviously the cubes didn't let Eternity by themselves,
Galactus was needed to perform the feat.
Inconsequential Ut.

If the Magus was controlling the Cubes at the time of the operation,
Galactus was going to be allowed to free Eternity by Magus.

If the Cubes were stolen before the operation,
then the Cubes were of no consequence during the operation,
since Cubes are directed by the wishes of their wielders.
Goddess had no interest in the unconsciousness of Eternity.

So one way or another,
the Cubes were not using their power to restrict Galactus from succeeding.

Bacause 1: Magus' plan was for Galactus to free Eternity.
Because 2: If Goddess had stolen them prior, then the bond would've become null,
as in not sustained by the Cubes.

Originally posted by Utrigita

Yet he remained Catatonic.
Correct, he was ko'd.
Eternity was once in a Two Month coma,
so it's not the first time it happens.
Originally posted by Utrigita

I know,
but the entire argument isn't based on whether ore not the CCU>Galactus which they does
Cool, so long as we understand that.
Originally posted by Utrigita

the question if is Galactus can break such a enchanment performed by the CCU

I don't know, what I do know is that wasn't the situation in Infinity War,
and I proved that already.

Please review the unquestionable On Panel evidence posted above.

Originally posted by Utrigita

it's no more different then SS breaking free Galactus from holding in the Annihilation which was Galactus own energy used Does that mean that SS>Galactus no.
This has nothing to do with the CCU scenario.
So this comparison is inconsequential.

Mr M.

Who do you think wins this particular thread?

Originally posted by Galan007
Mr M.

Who do you think wins this particular thread?
As you pointed out,
Kubik has definitely performed feats on a greater scale,
but Galactus is a slippery character, who can't imo, be judged too much on his feats,
due to his purposeful role in the Multiverse,
it's simply not in his nature to warp/destroy/or create realities, as we know Kubik is able.

Then again, sevarl alternates have displayed power that Galactus 616 should posses.

Like the creation of the next Marvel Universe (Last Galactus Story)

And other incidents we all know of.

616 Galactus has proven to be composed of Infinite energies
like when he returned to his natural state.

His would be Herald claimed he contained a Cosmos withIN him.

And other interesting extras.

So based on feats alone, Kubik > Galactus.
But when we observe the two more indepth, Galactus, imo.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Right, I did say that.

Then to give your post the benefit off the doubt,
I said,

even if the Cubes were under Magus' control at the time of Galactus' operation,
it did NOT matter,
cause it was in Magus' INTEREST for Galactus to free Eternity,
bacause that was part of the Magus' plan.

So in fact, if the Cubes were holding Eternity in catatonia,
I'm 100% confident,
Magus allowed Galactus to be able to free Eternity from his bonds,
because that WAS Magus' PLAN all along.

(there's NO arguing this)

Surely you couldn't have missed all the On Panel proof I posted above,
the evidence is indisputable.


Inconsequential Ut.

If the Magus was controlling the Cubes at the time of the operation,
Galactus was going to be allowed to free Eternity by Magus.

If the Cubes were stolen before the operation,
then the Cubes were of no consequence during the operation,
since Cubes are directed by the wishes of their wielders.
Goddess had no interest in the unconsciousness of Eternity.

So one way or another,
the Cubes were not using their power to restrict Galactus from succeeding.

Bacause 1: Magus' plan was for Galactus to free Eternity.
Because 2: If Goddess had stolen them prior, then the bond would've become null,
as in not sustained by the Cubes.


Correct, he was ko'd.
Eternity was once in a Two Month coma,
so it's not the first time it happens.

Cool, so long as we understand that.

I don't know, what I do know is that wasn't the situation in Infinity War,
and I proved that already.

Please review the unquestionable On Panel evidence posted above.


This has nothing to do with the CCU scenario.
So this comparison is inconsequential.

One last question and I didn't overlook all your evidence above.

If the Cubes hadn't been stolen and Galactus had seen no reason to act to save eternity then what? Would the Cubes then by the order of Magnus act to turn back the Catatonic ore would Magnus still need Galactus because that's what it looked like to me Magnus even with 5 CCUs needed Galactus to do something he should be capable of doing relative easy. But maybe i'm miscalculating something. Ore maybe It's a circle I'm a bit tired right now, so isn't sure

Originally posted by Tenebrous
Guy, for some reason, I KNEW you'd mention the "bald watcher" LOL

Anyway....

....Kubik has stated Celestials>>Kubik, Kosmos, Glorian, and the other Cube Beings...

...Kubik also told Kosmos, during Kubik's cosmology lesson, that the Celestials that Kosmos thought she remembered when she battled them as the beyonder, were mere shadows that were sent by "The Great Powers." However, "they" (ambiguous "they"..may refer to the Celestials that were sent by the Great Powers, or the Great Powers themselves) sometimes deign to interact with such insignificant creatures such as themselves (meaning, Kubik and Kosmos)

....Next few pages after that, Kubik reveals who the Great Powers are....Living Tribunal, Lord Chaos, Master Order, Eternity...and...Big G

so if we go by those scans......it's Big G.

Feat-wise, G has never reached into some other cosmic being's beer gut and broke out a sphere-sized universe.

Cosmic containment units>Cosmic cube beings...like Utrigita said Eternity was catatonic from the power of 5 containment units...G freed him using Gamora as a tool. Magus blew up G's ship with his 5 containment units, killing G. Big G reconstituted himself.

Would you by any chance have the Scan Tenebrous???

I will look for them, my eternal friend

If Tenebrous beats me to it, I'll call Tiamut

Originally posted by Mr Master
As you pointed out,
Kubik has definitely performed feats on a greater scale,
but Galactus is a slippery character, who can't imo, be judged too much on his feats,
due to his purposeful role in the Multiverse,
it's simply not in his nature to warp/destroy/or create realities, as we know Kubik is able.

Then again, sevarl alternates have displayed power that Galactus 616 should posses.

Like the creation of the next Marvel Universe (Last Galactus Story)

And other incidents we all know of.

616 Galactus has proven to be composed of Infinite energies
like when he returned to his natural state.

His would be Herald claimed he contained a Cosmos withIN him.

And other interesting extras.

So based on feats alone, Kubik > Galactus.
But when we observe the two more indepth, Galactus, imo.

agreed.

Originally posted by Utrigita

If the Cubes hadn't been stolen
and Galactus had seen no reason to act to save eternity then what?
Would the Cubes then by the order of Magnus act to turn back the Catatonic ore would Magnus still need Galactus because that's what it looked like to me Magnus even with 5 CCUs needed Galactus to do something he should be capable of doing relative easy.
The point of Eternity getting KO'd,
was for Magus to seem so dangerous that the IG would be needed to defeat him,
this is because Magus wanted the IG all along,
but Magus knew the IG was not functioning,
and Magus knew the IG could only work if Eternity asked and the LT allowed it,
so Magus created a situation of desperation, this was his plan:

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8342/63742649ey8.th.jpg

This would force Galactus to go to Eternity and get the IG to function,
get the IG to function right after he stole it from Warlock.

If Galactus would've been unable to free Eternity,
then that would've foiled Magus' plans,
cause then the IG would never become functional.

This is why without a doubt,
if the Cubes were controlled by Magus at the time of the operation,
he would've made sure Galactus freed Eternity.


So yes, Magus needed Galactus to run to Eternity in desparation,
to get Eternity to turn on the IG through the LT,
so Magus could have a functioning IG.

If Magus would've freed Eternity himself,
then there would've been no panic, therefore no need to turn on the IG.

Originally posted by Utrigita

But maybe i'm miscalculating something.
Ore maybe It's a circle I'm a bit tired right now, so isn't sure
It's a good subject and needed to be investigated meticulously,
so I think it worked out in the end.

I love discussing comics with true debaters such as yourself and others Ut.
it's the trolls that make me sick,
I'm dealing with one elsewhere as we speak.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The point of Eternity getting KO'd,
was for Magus to seem so dangerous that the IG would be needed to defeat him,
this is because Magus wanted the IG all along,
but Magus knew the IG was not functioning,
and Magus knew the IG could only work if Eternity asked and the LT allowed it,
so Magus created a situation of desperation, this was his plan:

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8342/63742649ey8.th.jpg

This would force Galactus to go to Eternity and get the IG to function,
get the IG to function right after he stole it from Warlock.

If Galactus would've been unable to free Eternity,
then that would've foiled Magus' plans,
cause then the IG would never become functional.

This is why without a doubt,
if the Cubes were controlled by Magus at the time of the operation,
he would've made sure Galactus freed Eternity.


So yes, Magus needed Galactus to run to Eternity in desparation,
to get Eternity to turn on the IG through the LT,
so Magus could have a functioning IG.

If Magus would've freed Eternity himself,
then there would've been no panic, therefore no need to turn on the IG.


It's a good subject and needed to be investigated meticulously,
so I think it worked out in the end.

I love discussing comics with true debaters such as yourself and others Ut.
it's the trolls that make me sick,
I'm dealing with one elsewhere as we speak.

But couldn't Galactus ask the LT to turn on the IG by himself, I remember him saying something in the story along the linies "the Living Tribunal will only address the concerns of a being of my stature a truly cosmic entity"

http://s208.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/DarkCrawler90/ Galactus%20Respect%20Thread%20I%20The%20Power%20of
%20Galactus/?start=20

top left scan

Originally posted by guy222
I will look for them, my eternal friend

If Tenebrous beats me to it, I'll call Tiamut

Cool

He will get his ass handed to him by Galactus

Tiamut FTW

Originally posted by Utrigita

But couldn't Galactus ask the LT to turn on the IG by himself,
I remember him saying something in the story along the linies "the Living Tribunal will only address the concerns of a being of my stature a truly cosmic entity"

Galactus did ask the LT,

the LT refused to help unless Eternity asked himself:

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/9913/11ho0.th.jpg


I explained this in the previous page with the scans,
I thought you didn't overlook my evidence?

Bad, bad Ut.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Galactus did ask the LT,

the LT refused to help unless Eternity asked himself:

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/9913/11ho0.th.jpg


I explained this in the previous page with the scans,
I thought you didn't overlook my scans?

Bad, bad Ut.

That one I must be franked I looked through real quick so

btw they take a hundred years to open

Too much work for u, my friend

I throw ya a party

Originally posted by guy222
Too much work for u, my friend

I throw ya a party

Well I could need it

Originally posted by Utrigita
btw they take a hundred years to open
I just noticed it did take about a minute or so, imageshack is falling off.

The server may just be slow right now.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I just noticed it did take about a minute or so, imageshack is falling off.

The server may just be slow right now. umm

Took like a second or two for me...

Originally posted by leonidas
agreed.
cheers

Originally posted by Galan007
Took like a second or two for me...
Yea, sometimes it's a locational matter.

edit*

That's funny, it took just a second or two for me now too.

The server may be running smoothly again,
you clicked it at the right time, man with the golden touch I see.

Originally posted by Galan007
umm

Took like a second or two for me...

What speed do you have???

Originally posted by Utrigita
What speed do you have???
I think it's the server, try it now Ut, see if there's a difference,
unless you're dealing with dial up, ouch.

Imagethrust>Imageshack

Originally posted by Utrigita
What speed do you have??? T3. But I don't think that's the cause.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The server may be running smoothly again,
you clicked it at the right time, man with the golden touch I see. If only it worked that way with everything.

Originally posted by guy222
Imagethrust>Imageshack Until it crapped out a few months back, and caused every 'thrust' image I had uploaded, to corrupt.

Sorry, good friend. Never had a problem with it

Originally posted by Mr Master
I think it's the server, try it now Ut, see if there's a difference,
unless you're dealing with dial up, ouch.

No difference a empty might be a good idea and with a speed at 4mb it shouldn't be a problem

Originally posted by Galan007

T3. But I don't think that's the cause.
Wow, impressive, it may not be the case but that speed must be sweet regardless.
Originally posted by Galan007

If only it worked that way with everything.
I know what you mean sly dog.
Originally posted by Galan007

Until it crapped out a few months back,
and caused every 'thrust' image I had uploaded, to corrupt.
That sucks.

I've been using Imageshack for a few years now,
every scan I've ever posted at kmc is still functional,
with the exception of a very few. (a mystery as to why the selective few)

Originally posted by Mr Master
Wow, impressive, it may not be the case but that speed must be sweet regardless.It is.

When browsing the internet, there's not much of a difference between T3, and DSL/cable...

But DL'ing files is great, .

Originally posted by Mr Master
That sucks.

I've been using Imageshack for a few years now,
every scan I've ever posted at kmc is still functional,
with the exception of a very few. (a mystery as to why the selective few) Yeah,
I either use Imageshack, or Photobucket.

Both are excellent for uploads.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Cool, still CCU > Galactus.


T ... I always enjoy your posts,(you're a true debater)
but the IG saga is one of my favorite, and if you know me,
you know I'm a Marvel Cosmic aficionado, Starlin fan since the 80's.

But this post doesn't change this fact:

The operation began in issue #5,
in issue #5 we discover the Cubes had been stolen previously:

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/3665/514zw2.th.jpg
(page 14 - Infinity War #5)

.....................................................................

Aside from that,
I'll quickly prove how it was in Magus' interest for Galactus to FREE Eternity,
so even IF they would've been under Magus' control during the operation,
Magus would've surely allowed Galactus to succeed.


POf course Eternity was ko'd by the Cubes,
but the Cubes didn't have to keep Eternity ko'd.

But like I said, aside from that,
it was Magus' interest for Galactus to FREE Eternity,
so even IF they would've been under Magus' control during the operation,
Magus would've surely allowed Galactus to succeed.


Per Jim Starlin?

Jim is not gonna tell me the operation began before IW#5 Page 14,
when On Panel it clearly began in IW#5 page 14.

Anywho,
the reason Jim says the events took place between issue #4 and 5,
is because Galactus and Gamora reached Eternity at the end of issue#4,
but all the action took place in #5.

Well I have the great misfortune of no longer having my scans available due to hard drive failure (I will get my scans back shortly, RAID ftw), but I still would like to mention:

To be clear, are you in the position that the CCUs need to be under the influence of the controller, to maintain the controller's wishes (i.e., I use the CCU to wish that I am a billionaire, you steal the CCU from me, am I still a billionaire)? Between the many points being debated I believe that topic became somewhat blurry.

I agree with you that it was in Magus' best interest for G to free Eternity, but I don't believe it was a type of "hold Galactus' hand along the way" best interest, because, on the other side of the coin, the Catatonia still had to be maintained until G arrived to perform surgery. I.E. Eternity had to be subdued up to and including the point of arrival of G and Gamora. If I had my scans I'd put up the one that shows G/Gamora blasting bands that are clearly binding Eternity/Infinity in place...implicitly, the bands are purposefully not powerful enough to withstand G (per Magus' directive), but directly, still powerful enough to effect and maintain catatonia on Eternity's person. The two goals are somewhat contradictory but that is my interpretation. Lastly, there's also the scan where Magus is explaining to warlock the reasoning behind his plan "I needed Galactus for his naked might and cosmic prestige"=I needed Galactus to free Eternity, and I needed Galactus' prestige to request a hearing with the Tribunal and enable the IG to be effective by edict

anyway good to see that debate is providing for amusement for more people than ourselves

I agree

U and Utrigita are the Galactus experts and u always provide excellent points

Originally posted by Tenebrous

Well I have the great misfortune of no longer having my scans available due to hard drive failure (I will get my scans back shortly, RAID ftw), but I still would like to mention
I can send you issues if you'd like via messengers (iChat/AIM)

Originally posted by Tenebrous

To be clear, are you in the position that the CCUs need to be under the influence of the controller, to maintain the controller's wishes (i.e., I use the CCU to wish that I am a billionaire, you steal the CCU from me, am I still a billionaire)? .
Good question, yes and no.

So long as no one else claiming said Cube that granted your wishes changes your wish,
your wish stays in tact,
so long as no one destroys the Cube that granted your wish,
your wish stays intact.

Now obviously if the versa happens, then you lose your wish.

Originally posted by Tenebrous

I agree with you that it was in Magus' best interest for G to free Eternity,
but I don't believe it was a type of "hold Galactus' hand along the way" best interest, because, on the other side of the coin, the Catatonia still had to be maintained until G arrived to perform surgery. I.E. Eternity had to be subdued up to and including the point of arrival of G and Gamora.
I agree.

Although this doesn't mean that at the point Galactus finally reached the bondage,
the Cubes didn't know to allow Galactus to succeed in his mission,
that being, to free Eternity.

So even by your sound logic,
the Cubes only had to maintain the bond until a specific point in time.
(that is, until Galactus struck)

Cubes are uber enough to bend logic and make it so Eternity can't break free,
but Galactus can break Eternity free.

I actually like that interpretation and I agree with it.

Originally posted by Tenebrous

If I had my scans I'd put up the one that shows G/Gamora blasting bands that are clearly binding Eternity/Infinity in place...implicitly, the bands are purposefully not powerful enough to withstand G (per Magus' directive), but directly, still powerful enough to effect and maintain catatonia on Eternity's person. The two goals are somewhat contradictory but that is my interpretation.
I have all the issues, and I know what you're talking about.

I agree, and it is contradictory if we look at it that way.

But if we say,
the Cubes maintained Eternity in bondage until Galactus operated through Gamora,
thus the Cubes themselves allowed Galactus to free Eternity after he struck through Gamora,
it makes more sense imo.

Cause Galactus should not be overpowering something that overpowered Eternity/Infinity.

I think we both agree on that.

Originally posted by Tenebrous

Lastly, there's also the scan where Magus is explaining to warlock the reasoning behind his plan "I needed Galactus for his naked might and cosmic prestige"=I needed Galactus to free Eternity, and I needed Galactus' prestige to request a hearing with the Tribunal and enable the IG to be effective by edict
True that,
but I don't think he meant,
I need Galactus as in, the guy who can do what Eternity can't.

Surely he needed Galactus to approach the LT,
and he needed Galactus to perform the operation,
but nevertheless it was an operation that was pre-destined to succeed.

Originally posted by Tenebrous

anyway good to see that debate is providing for amusement for more people than ourselves


I always enjoy discussions with true debaters.

One last point T,
we shouldn't forget that the whole point of waking up Eternity and getting the IG,
was to oppose Magus' power (the Cubes)

So if Galactus would've been even remotely capable of truly overpowering the Cubes,
I don't see why the IG would've been necessary.

Heck, even the UN was thought into the picture by Galactus before the IG.

Just sayin friend.

Wow, when it comes to Cosmics, you all know your shit.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I can send you issues if you'd like via messengers (iChat/AIM)


Good question, yes and no.

So long as no one else claiming said Cube that granted your wishes changes your wish,
your wish stays in tact,
so long as no one destroys the Cube that granted your wish,
your wish stays intact.

Now obviously if the versa happens, then you lose your wish. Yeah...since we disagree on the Starlin/WatIW9/IW4+5 stance, I wanted to know your position on cubes maintaining wishes, which would make our disagreement pertaining to when galactus acted irrelevant. I looked through my old issues of IC and found a few instances were Goddess' possession of the cosmic egg were compromised (by Pip) yet a lot of her wishes remained intact. So if Magus' CCUs were jacked by Goddess long before, I'm under the impression that the CCUs were maintaining their effect on Eternity/Infinity no matter how late or how early Galactus acted.



Eh...that ventures a bit too far in conjecture for my taste. Though I do remember reading somewhere Mephisto giving Thanos and Warlock council on the CCUs...i don't have that issue and i don't have the scans but it was pertaining to some quasi sentience/will that the CCUs had...as in being genies that have certain self-imposed restrictions and self-administering logic. If that's truly the case then I can see the logic behind the situation




Yeah. That goes with the point above^


i'm sure he didn't mean that either. I gather what he meant was that G was the only party capable of pulling off 1 and 2 at the same time.

However, since we never saw Magus actually wish for the CCUs to maintain hold over Eternity until Galactus arrived, my interpretation:

1. Magus knew that out of desperation, one of the hero leadership of Warlock/Galactus/Thanos would seek the IGs powers to counter the CCUs

2. Galactus petitions LT, LT tells G to ask Eternity. Now at this point, if G failed in his quest in freeing Eternity, or if he was struggling to free Eternity, Magus simply could have wished the bonds to evaporate (assuming Goddess didn't steal them...Goddess wasn't a factor in Magus' plans) and have Galactus believe he was responsible...either that or Galactus simply broke the bonds.

3. In any case, bonds are broken, Eternity is free, and Magus' plans move forward

The logic pertaining to the CCUs is appealing, but Magus never directly stated he made that specific wish (as in, hold Eternity till Galactus comes). All we see is that Eternity has been jumped by an outside power and is held in that state. Going by what's on-panel, I'm inclined to believe G over-powered the bonds...as you said the plan was destined to go forward, but it wasn't destined to go forward contingent solely on G's success...Magus could have wished it in either case.

Another interpretation is that the bands were akin to a jail cell...inside, you can't do shit, but the person outside can open the door using proper techniques, which is what I'm gonna go with. That would explain how superior strength is suppressed, and how external force (not necessarily as strong as the superior strength) overcame that suppression.




word

Originally posted by guy222
I agree

U and Utrigita are the Galactus experts and u always provide excellent points

Knicks>Lakers ...................................

Originally posted by Mr Master
One last point T,
we shouldn't forget that the whole point of waking up Eternity and getting the IG,
was to oppose Magus' power (the Cubes)

So if Galactus would've been even remotely capable of truly overpowering the Cubes,
I don't see why the IG would've been necessary.

Heck, even the UN was thought into the picture by Galactus before the IG.

Just sayin friend.

Yeah, I had a problem with that though. G wasn't even remotely capable, but the UN was. Magus was shook of the UN.

Instead of going directly for the IG, the heroes should have sent Warlock and Thanos (which happened, as they were both there) to Magus' control room, and sabotage the blanketing field which prevented the UN's activation. Quasar can then activate the UN. We know Magus couldn't use the CCUs to counter the UN because

1. Thanos states it could easily terminate the "annoyance which is the magus"

2. magus started shitting bricks "it could destroy us all, even me!"

3. Further panic on the part of magus "only hope is to reach the containment units and directly use their wish granting powers!"

4. Increasing panic on the part of magus "he could fire the UN at any moment! Reach a unit and turn quasar into"

at which point he finds the CCUs stolen.

meaning, magus didn't seem to think he could directly affect the UN's power itself with the CCUs, only turn quasar into a cow or whatever to make the user of the UN ineffective.

So if the heroes used the UN first, and if that failed, then the IG (sequentially, that's what happened, but in terms of planning, the IG was the main objective, the UN the after-thought), that plan would have been much more sound, considering how unwilling all the parties were to reactivate the IG. I'm surprised Galactus went straight for the IG, while Thanos just whimsically decided to use the UN while everyone was on G's ship.

But, it's starlin's book, so that's how it is

Lakers FTW

http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Energy%20manipulation/Gamora%20scalpel/

Galactus performing the "operation" on Eternity in case someone isn't aware of the discussed incident.

Originally posted by Tenebrous

Eh...that ventures a bit too far in conjecture for my taste. Though I do remember reading somewhere Mephisto giving Thanos and Warlock council on the CCUs...i don't have that issue and i don't have the scans but it was pertaining to some quasi sentience/will that the CCUs had...as in being genies that have certain self-imposed restrictions and self-administering logic. If that's truly the case then I can see the logic behind the situation


This scan Tenebrous???

http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cosmiccubesareallpowerful1wc.jpg

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Wow, when it comes to Cosmics, you all know your shit.

Originally posted by Galan007

Yeah,
I either use Imageshack, or Photobucket.

Both are excellent for uploads.
True that.

Originally posted by Tenebrous

Yeah...since we disagree on the Starlin/WatIW9/IW4+5 stance, I wanted to know your position on cubes maintaining wishes, which would make our disagreement pertaining to when galactus acted irrelevant.

I looked through my old issues of IC and found a few instances were Goddess' possession of the cosmic egg were compromised (by Pip) yet a lot of her wishes remained intact.

So if Magus' CCUs were jacked by Goddess long before,
I'm under the impression that the CCUs were maintaining their effect on Eternity/Infinity no matter how late or how early Galactus acted.
Based on that example T, I have to disagree.

Goddess' wishes remained intact, because Pip never changed them.

What I said was,
if another wielder of the Cube that you made wishes with,
does not change your wishes, then they stay intact:
Originally posted by Mr Master

So long as no one else claiming said Cube that granted your wishes changes your wish,

your wish stays in tact,

so long as no one destroys the Cube that granted your wish,
your wish stays intact.

Now obviously if the versa happens, then you lose your wish.



In the IC case when Pip gets control of the Egg,
he never changes the Goddess wish,
in fact, he just fantasized through an entire issue (W &the IW #20)
even killing Eternity/Infinity along the way:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2871/p1my2.th.jpg

................................................................................................

Pip even made himself GOD!

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/8126/p2bu7.th.jpg

But when we read,
we can see,
none of what he fantasized about during his time wielding the Egg he wanted,
hence, he never changed the Goddess wishes,
he never changed anything at all.

................................................................................................

When he finally decided to make one wish,
he got kick dropped off the Egg,
and the Goddess was quickly back in control:

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/6369/p3cd6.th.jpg

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/1829/p4cl7.th.jpg

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/6434/p5xb4.th.jpg

Originally posted by Tenebrous

Eh...that ventures a bit too far in conjecture for my taste. Though I do remember reading somewhere Mephisto giving Thanos and Warlock council on the CCUs...i don't have that issue and i don't have the scans but it was pertaining to some quasi sentience/will that the CCUs had...

as in being genies that have certain self-imposed restrictions and self-administering logic.

If that's truly the case then I can see the logic behind the situation


http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/8274/ccu2ra8.th.jpg

Originally posted by Tenebrous

i'm sure he didn't mean that either. I gather what he meant was that G was the only party capable of pulling off 1 and 2 at the same time.

However, since we never saw Magus actually wish for the CCUs to maintain hold over Eternity until Galactus arrived, my interpretation:

1. Magus knew that out of desperation, one of the hero leadership of Warlock/Galactus/Thanos would seek the IGs powers to counter the CCUs

2. Galactus petitions LT, LT tells G to ask Eternity. Now at this point, if G failed in his quest in freeing Eternity, or if he was struggling to free Eternity, Magus simply could have wished the bonds to evaporate (assuming Goddess didn't steal them...Goddess wasn't a factor in Magus' plans) and have Galactus believe he was responsible...either that or Galactus simply broke the bonds.

3. In any case, bonds are broken, Eternity is free, and Magus' plans move forward

The logic pertaining to the CCUs is appealing, but Magus never directly stated he made that specific wish (as in, hold Eternity till Galactus comes). All we see is that Eternity has been jumped by an outside power and is held in that state. Going by what's on-panel, I'm inclined to believe G over-powered the bonds...as you said the plan was destined to go forward, but it wasn't destined to go forward contingent solely on G's success...Magus could have wished it in either case.

Another interpretation is that the bands were akin to a jail cell...inside,
you can't do shit,
but the person outside can open the door using proper techniques,
which is what I'm gonna go with.

That would explain how superior strength is suppressed,
and how external force (not necessarily as strong as the superior strength) overcame that suppression.
I agree with this final interpretation 100%

I was gonna bring up the incident where Giraud cauterizes 691 Eternity's cancer.

That's a perfect example how a cat that's >>>> beneath you, can save you.

edit

Originally posted by Utrigita
This scan Tenebrous???

http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cosmiccubesareallpowerful1wc.jpg
yeah that's exactly the scan. the fat bastard says it all

Originally posted by Mr Master
Based on that example T, I have to disagree.

Goddess' wishes remained intact, because Pip never changed them.

What I said was,
if another wielder of the Cube that you made wishes with,
does not change your wishes, then they stay intact:




In the IC case when Pip gets control of the Egg,
he never changes the Goddess wish,
in fact, he just fantasized through an entire issue (W &the IW #20)
even killing Eternity/Infinity along the way:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2871/p1my2.th.jpg

................................................................................................

Pip even made himself GOD!

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/8126/p2bu7.th.jpg

But when we read,
we can see,
none of what he fantasized about during his time wielding the Egg he wanted,
hence, he never changed the Goddess wishes,
he never changed anything at all.

................................................................................................

When he finally decided to make one wish,
he got kick dropped off the Egg,
and the Goddess was quickly back in control:

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/6369/p3cd6.th.jpg

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/1829/p4cl7.th.jpg

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/6434/p5xb4.th.jpg




http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/8274/ccu2ra8.th.jpg

We are actually both in agreement. My understanding of the CCUs was that, if I wished I were a billionaire, then you took the CCUs from me, and then someone took them from you, and so on and so on, the CCUs can be passed around like a cheap whore but yet I remain a billionaire so long as no one wishes me to be otherwise.

My reasoning: if that is in fact the case, then that makes the timing of Goddess' theft of the CCUs irrelevant, insofar as imprisoning, then maintaining, Eternity's imprisonment until G&G arrived.



They should never have allowed Eternity to be "revitalized" by Storm and the temporary FF in that Fantastic Four storyline last year. Heinous.

Big G from Nova #13:

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4782/3120newstoryimage766671eg9.jpg



G looks PIMP. Reminds me of a Roman Emperor in battle armor, with a bit of Eternity thrown in. Nova is literally a flea next to him.

Originally posted by Mr Master
One last point T,
we shouldn't forget that the whole point of waking up Eternity and getting the IG,
was to oppose Magus' power (the Cubes)

So if Galactus would've been even remotely capable of truly overpowering the Cubes,
I don't see why the IG would've been necessary.

Heck, even the UN was thought into the picture by Galactus before the IG.

Just sayin friend.
I don't know if that's really much of an indication Mr. M.. Galactus and the heroes couldn't FIND the Magus and time was of the essence because the universes were merging more with each passing moment. The IG was the quickest and simplest solution to the problem.

I'm not saying that Galactus>Cosmic Cubes, but given the opportunity I'm pretty sure that Galan would prefer to confront the Magus himself rather than allow Adam Warlock to acquire ultimate power again if he were actually given the choice.

Originally posted by Tenebrous
Big G from Nova #13:

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4782/3120newstoryimage766671eg9.jpg



G looks PIMP. Reminds me of a Roman Emperor in battle armor, with a bit of Eternity thrown in. Nova is literally a flea next to him.

This is going to be great, the writers have begun to change Galactus from being a Jobber to being the Enormous powerful entity that he always should have been.

Hopefully...

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Hopefully...

indeed.

Big G needs to have a good showing. That **** with Gravity was terrible

yes, probably, but it's pretty damning evidence.

I'd say a Cube being would be over Eternity using feats... good thing Kubik screwed Cube beings though.

Originally posted by Utrigita
This is going to be great, the writers have begun to change Galactus from being a Jobber to being the Enormous powerful entity that he always should have been.
Originally posted by guy222
Big G needs to have a good showing. That **** with Gravity was terrible

Dwayne McDuffie: Black Panther cosmic hammerlock/the Ultimate Nullifier belongs to Uatu/Gravity fiasco



looks like DnA have a great understanding of cosmic stories (they should, after all) while Alves' art looks excellent.

McDuffie.....I ain't gonna comment on that dude.

cosmic hammerlocks, and saying the UN belongs to Uatu??...

Originally posted by Tenebrous
Dwayne McDuffie: Black Panther cosmic hammerlock/the Ultimate Nullifier belongs to Uatu/Gravity fiasco



looks like DnA have a great understanding of cosmic stories (they should, after all) while Alves' art looks excellent.

McDuffie.....I ain't gonna comment on that dude.

cosmic hammerlocks, and saying the UN belongs to Uatu??...

You know Tenebrous the "writer" with the name Dwayne McDuffie is a person which has been wiped from my mind, and who's comics has been burned. Galactus and SS along with Stardust appearances in Fantastic Four vol. 1 #544 Fantastic Four vol. 1 #545 has to my knowledge never happen, people keep claiming that but

It was terrible reading, But Annihilation was awesome which is what my statement was originating from

I got my raygun pointed at Dwayne