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Cloud beats him in the story, but does he beat him in an actual encounter without PIS/CIS?

Not an ice cube's chance in hell

well if its ice taken from the furthest reaches of the void then maybe

He beats him...Off.

That's about all he can do, Seph has him beat in feats, and has shown time and time again that without CIS Cloud is nothing to him.

Originally posted by Burning thought
well if its ice taken from the furthest reaches of the void then maybe

No, not really.

prove a void ice cube would have no chance!! with scans if you can please

Originally posted by Burning thought
prove a void ice cube would have no chance!! with scans if you can please

It would be destroyed by the curious masses of demons.

Void ice cubes, like the battles between Cloud and Sephiroth, are PIS/CIS.

But yeah, the only times Cloud defeated Sepiroth alone were when Sepiroth was either wounded (like at the Mako reactor in Nibelheim, though I don't know if that realy counts), or caught off guard.

That thing at the end of FFVII was more of a mental battle between Cloud and Sephiroth (but that was PIS at its strongest).

Sephiroth would win quite easily if he'd put some effort into his fights with Cloud. At Nibelheim all he had to do was let go of the damn Masamune, but he was so arrogant that he refused to believe a grunt was doing that to him so he held on to the end, culminating in his fall into the lifestream. In FF VII He could have killed Cloud by just focusing all his TK on him before the battle began and ripping him apart, instead of just screwing with everyone. In the final battle of FF VII he had the fight won, but hesitated to finish Cloud off out of arrogance and gave Cloud an opening for Omnislash. In Advent Children he isn't putting any effort to the fight, and even so continues to dominate Cloud, the problem being that when he had a clear shot he poked Cloud in the shoulder instead of decapitating him.

So in summary, Cloud is good, but he's no Sephiroth.

AC was the only moment where Sephiroth lost because of arrogance.
In Nibel he was wounded and shocked. And in FFVII he was focused on Holy and fighting 8 powerful warriors.
The only moment where he showed arrogance(in his actions, words, expressions, etc) was in the movie.

People who say he always loses because of arrogance, are people who wants to make him look like an idiot.

We're just being honest to the character.
Sephiroth is an idiot who doesn't even have a reason to be evil.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
We're just being honest to the character.
Sephiroth is an idiot who doesn't even have a reason to be evil.

Dear gosh, troll comments man.

If you actually understood the storyline of VII, you would know full well, why Sephiroth chose the path that he did. Crisis-Core fleshes it out even more.

Lastly, if Sephiroth actually used his full potential, Cloud would get utterly annihilated. Sephiroth throughout the entire timeframe when he was Soldier to his time as an antagonist against Cloud, he never showed his true abilities ever.

His downfall would be that he'd toy with Cloud too long, and that would ultimately revert to him losing.

However, if we removed all of that notion to the side and Sephiroth was actually content with going out there to kill Cloud, he would easily defeat him.

You mean he originally read in some books that he was a project and believed it all thus deciding to kill humanity?
All CC does is retcon it so now Genesis was the prime motive for his reading frenzy which led to his rampage in Nibelheim.

So, as we know by his own words, he "gained the knowledg enad wisdom of the Ancients". So, he knows his entire motivation is false. The calamity that killed the Cetra was the mother he thought a Cetra. He's not destined for anything like he babbled about. He's just a freak with some alien cells in him.

But does that stop him? No. Does he have any other rationale for his evilness now that his original is gone? No. But he'll STILL be evil. Why? Because FFVII is stupid.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight -snip-

Umm, no, Sephiroth was losing his mind well before the Nimbleheim incident, and before he was reading his books. He was already questioning himself long before that, small little incidents of where he couldn't give out his own blood to Genesis.

Yes, Genesis was used as a character to "open" Sephiroth's eyes, however as to why that should be considered irrelivant makes absolutely no sense in your part is mind boggling.

Not only that, but through reading out and finally realizing everything. He started to be that he was in fact, "the chosen one" and that he was in fact, rightful to this world.

You know, a thing called insanity, and this wasn't an Overnight change of personality. When you've been nothing but puppet your whole life, born into a world knowing only how to fight, and being used as a tool for propaganda and with things being with held from you about your past.

Then you finally start realizing your nothing but a mere experiment that out of thousands was the only successful one, wow...who wouldn't go alittle crazy in the head?

You act as if it wasn't "okay" for him to become the antagonist he is now, and talk as if he turned heel on a whim.

Sephiroth was in conflict with this for years, not just days. Get the facts straight.

As for FFVII being horrible? Right...considering it's the most Popular FF game of All Time, with the Greatest Combination System in FF history with the Materia System, even crap characters like Caith Sith can be made beastly with the Materia System.

This coming a person who played the first FF and the rest (imported the ones that didn't make it over during the early 90's) from the late 80's onward.

And when he arrived in Nibelheim he was weirded out by his mother being named Jenova...there was a lot of little things before what finally caused it. But they're mostly irrelevant.



Good for him.



I understand similar things happen to child soldiers and former Soviet citizens. In fact, they found out Stalin murdered millions of their ancestors just like Sephiroth "found out" his ancestors were all killed.
Did any of these people go insane and start a global panic?



A sensible person?
I don't read books, believe everything they say unquestioningly and then, when everything I read and believed is proven wrong, continue on with the same nonsense.



He pretty much did. After falling into the Lifestream and learning the "humans are evil cowards and I'm the last of the Cetra" crap he was spouting about was untrue he could have easily stopped what he was doing.



Well who's talking about FF1? I'm not.
I'm just commenting on how the plots of FFIX and FFX utterly put VII's to shame.

FFVIII puts it to shame as well IMO...Well, minus Disk 4...Fvck disk 4.

Hojo IMO is the true driving force of evil behind FFVII.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Hojo IMO is the true driving force of evil behind FFVII.

QFT.

Well the storyline of FFVII isn't exactly the thread topic, but theres so many troll threads in the video game forum theres not much of a point in trying to keep thread integrity.

FFVII's plot is no Aeneid, its not even my favorite FF plot, but its far from "dumb". Sephiroths motivation is one of the most interesting aspects of the entire story. He was driven crazy by the information in a library. Yes, driven crazy by books! Theres all kinds of interpretations for this plot event. Whats the effect literature has on the minds of its readers? Is it so simple as it is in school, where we simply read and repeat to a teacher?

Heres a good question for discussion: how does Sephiroths conversion compare to a person who reads the Bible? But if the texts Sephiroth read were scientific records, would it be right if he credited it with the same self-evidence a person of faith would grant to their own creed?

All this thread does is prove why Kefka/Kuja/Seymour is a superior villain to Sephiroth.

Honestly...Cloud beat Seph like 3, I think 4 times. After the 1st and 2nd time I can see CIS and PIS. But not any more...
Seph's got better feats and powers, but some how Cloud is just better.

So I say Cloud wins, he always wins (over Seph). Really sux.

Originally posted by grey fox
All this thread does is prove why Kefka/Kuja/Seymour is a superior villain to Sephiroth.

Let's not take it TOO far buddy.