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http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/8533/iron2ha7.jpg

vs

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/2499/f22k1024fe7.jpg

Fight takes place high in the sky above the Alps.

Who wins?

Starscream.

Starscream.

Starscream...he'd kick Tony's ass

Ironman - the movie Decepticons were being owned by regular soldiers.

Starscream you fail me yet again!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Ironman - the movie Decepticons were being owned by regular soldiers.

Starscream you fail me yet again!!!!!!!!

Movie Decepticons werent being owned by regular soldiers. The 2 that were fighting on the street were fighting both Autobots AS WELL as Soldiers who were using upgraded heat generated firepower.

Starscream, next to Megatron was the only Decepticon who was owning. Starscream air fighting is more advanced than movie Ironmans. Plus Ironman doesnt have the weaponry to actually hurt Starscream. Also, If Starscream gets hold of Ironman, its a wrap too.

I believe Iron Man would put up a good fight... might win via those heat beam things he uses on Jericho missiles

Originally posted by Hannibal-Lector
I believe Iron Man would put up a good fight... might win via those heat beam things he uses on Jericho missiles

Werent those flares? Projectile flares?

Originally posted by jrodslam
Movie Decepticons werent being owned by regular soldiers. The 2 that were fighting on the street were fighting both Autobots AS WELL as Soldiers who were using upgraded heat generated firepower.

Starscream, next to Megatron was the only Decepticon who was owning. Starscream air fighting is more advanced than movie Ironmans. Plus Ironman doesnt have the weaponry to actually hurt Starscream. Also, If Starscream gets hold of Ironman, its a wrap too.

true Starscreme was owning but if Iron-Man has his advanced miniature arc reactor and his suit is fully charged he can do far more damage to Starscream than Starscream can do to him.

oh and those weren't flares, they were his repulsor beams.

http://deathstrokemedia.com/tutorials/Beam/iron.jpg

Starscream.

Originally posted by complexbrother
true Starscreme was owning but if Iron-Man has his advanced miniature arc reactor and his suit is fully charged he can do far more damage to Starscream than Starscream can do to him.

oh and those weren't flares, they were his repulsor beams.

http://deathstrokemedia.com/tutorials/Beam/iron.jpg

iron man was struggling with the raptor detachment sent against him....starsreams maneouverabilty was far superior to conventional f22s ("none of our pilots fly that low, it must be the alien fighter" i just saw transformers on cinemax hd. Starscream's flying was clearly superior than anything the human's can do....and as good as the suit makes tony, it doesn't give him the flying expertise of a veteran pilot, and it damn well doesn't give him the knowledge to even keep up with a transformer who was taking that entire squadron of f22 raptors to school by himself

Call me crazy, but Tony has a shot.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Starscream. Originally posted by snoopdogg
Starscream. Originally posted by steverules
Starscream...he'd kick Tony's ass Originally posted by Avlon
Starscream. Originally posted by norrinradd43
Call me crazy, but Tony has a shot. You're crazy! duryes

Originally posted by Tenebrous
iron man was struggling with the raptor detachment sent against him....starsreams maneouverabilty was far superior to conventional f22s ("none of our pilots fly that low, it must be the alien fighter" i just saw transformers on cinemax hd. Starscream's flying was clearly superior than anything the human's can do....and as good as the suit makes tony, it doesn't give him the flying expertise of a veteran pilot, and it damn well doesn't give him the knowledge to even keep up with a transformer who was taking that entire squadron of f22 raptors to school by himself
Well, to be fair IM wasn't really trying to fight them, and when one of them hit him, he took its wing off

Originally posted by Tenebrous
iron man was struggling with the raptor detachment sent against him....starsreams maneouverabilty was far superior to conventional f22s ("none of our pilots fly that low, it must be the alien fighter" i just saw transformers on cinemax hd. Starscream's flying was clearly superior than anything the human's can do....and as good as the suit makes tony, it doesn't give him the flying expertise of a veteran pilot, and it damn well doesn't give him the knowledge to even keep up with a transformer who was taking that entire squadron of f22 raptors to school by himself

Well Tony didn't really fight the two F-22's per say. They were unloading on him while Tony, on the other hand, was struggling to avoid any combat with them because he didn't want to shoot down American planes.

Originally posted by Evangel94
Well Tony didn't really fight the two F-22's per say. They were unloading on him while Tony, on the other hand, was struggling to avoid any combat with them because he didn't want to shoot down American planes. exactly...tony was doing everything he could to NOT damage the fighter planes

I think starscream loses...movie version sucks

Originally posted by superchron
Well, to be fair IM wasn't really trying to fight them, and when one of them hit him, he took its wing off Originally posted by Evangel94
Well Tony didn't really fight the two F-22's per say. They were unloading on him while Tony, on the other hand, was struggling to avoid any combat with them because he didn't want to shoot down American planes. Originally posted by Starscream M
exactly...tony was doing everything he could to NOT damage the fighter planes

I think starscream loses...movie version sucks

I'm not talking about the damage at all...I'm talking about iron man being unable to out-manouevre them. He had to use counter-measures instead of getting out of their tactical range...he could not out-fly the missile, and he wasn't faster than the jets...if he were, why did he purposely hang around and allow them to fire at him, then realize he needed countermeasures to have a comfortable chance of surviving the whole ordeal? basically, they were chasing him, and he couldn't escape.

"Avoiding combat" means escape, and he didn't do that, because he couldn't.

Now you're talking about Starscream? He easily overpowered 6 of those Raptors, several of them with "hand-to-hand" combat...he didn't even use any ordinance. And comparing cybertronian ordinance to U.S. military ordinance....well we all saw how worried tony was about those conventional missiles.

Tony has no chance.

Originally posted by Starscream M
exactly...tony was doing everything he could to NOT damage the fighter planes

I think starscream loses...movie version sucks

Well, he lives and Megatron is dead, so he's starting to live up to the original, unless Galvatron comes 'round.

Originally posted by Tenebrous

Now you're talking about Starscream? He easily overpowered 6 of those Raptors, several of them with "hand-to-hand" combat...he didn't even use any ordinance.

IM could've ripped those jets like butter if he wanted to.

Originally posted by Tenebrous
I'm not talking about the damage at all...I'm talking about iron man being unable to out-manouevre them. He had to use counter-measures instead of getting out of their tactical range...he could not out-fly the missile, and he wasn't faster than the jets...if he were, why did he purposely hang around and allow them to fire at him, then realize he needed countermeasures to have a comfortable chance of surviving the whole ordeal? basically, they were chasing him, and he couldn't escape.

"Avoiding combat" means escape, and he didn't do that, because he couldn't.

Now you're talking about Starscream? He easily overpowered 6 of those Raptors, several of them with "hand-to-hand" combat...he didn't even use any ordinance. And comparing cybertronian ordinance to U.S. military ordinance....well we all saw how worried tony was about those conventional missiles.

Tony has no chance.

Well, Tony could have shot down those jets at any time if he really wanted to. Now because he didn't want to shoot them down, he spent his whole time running away from them while they shot at him both with missiles and guns.

I don't know what your definition of out-maneuvering them means, but doesn't the fact that Tony didn't get shot down (despite them trying to shoot him down) tell you he out-maneuvered them? He even hung on the underbelly of one those planes without the pilots realizing it for a while. Wouldn't you call that "out-maneuvering?"

Originally posted by Tenebrous
I'm not talking about the damage at all...I'm talking about iron man being unable to out-manouevre them. He had to use counter-measures instead of getting out of their tactical range...he could not out-fly the missile, and he wasn't faster than the jets...if he were, why did he purposely hang around and allow them to fire at him, then realize he needed countermeasures to have a comfortable chance of surviving the whole ordeal? basically, they were chasing him, and he couldn't escape.

"Avoiding combat" means escape, and he didn't do that, because he couldn't.

Now you're talking about Starscream? He easily overpowered 6 of those Raptors, several of them with "hand-to-hand" combat...he didn't even use any ordinance. And comparing cybertronian ordinance to U.S. military ordinance....well we all saw how worried tony was about those conventional missiles.

Tony has no chance. Yeah I don't see not wanting to hurt the people inside of the jets as the same as not being able to defeat them.

Originally posted by complexbrother
oh and those weren't flares, they were his repulsor beams.


I dont think he used his repulsor beams in the movie. Even when he fought the Hulk buster Iron Man, he used flares. Here he even says it.

Also note that the regular shots from the f-22 had a part or his back smoking. I dont know if that was due to slight damage or smoke from heat. It happens right before he opens the flaps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6-h7pv0y08

Since Movie IM went through the jets effortlessly with no serious damage I think IM should be able to fly right through Starscream and kill him.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
Since Movie IM went through the jets effortlessly with no serious damage I think IM should be able to fly right through Starscream and kill him.

Went throught the jets effortlessly? What do you mean? When he crashed into the one jet and took the wing off?

Both Autobots and Decepticons are more durable than the regular vehicle and or aircraft they simulate.

Starscream

He has a better name.

well i have weighed up all the factors and i have decided that overall the winner is ............................................................. Optimus prime

Originally posted by lordmohahat
well i have weighed up all the factors and i have decided that overall the winner is ............................................................. Optimus prime

I...........I.......... HATE......Optimus Prime!!!! I........HATE........him!

Originally posted by jrodslam
Went throught the jets effortlessly? What do you mean? When he crashed into the one jet and took the wing off?

Both Autobots and Decepticons are more durable than the regular vehicle and or aircraft they simulate.

Like he literally went through a jet effortlessly. He did go right through a jet mayy it be the wing or whatever (do the same to starscream). Effortlessly because going through the jet was accidental because the jet went into him.

They do seem to be more durable but can they stand up to Unibeams, repulsors, and that chest canon blast?

IM is also very durable, getting smashed around by the other suit def shows some durability even tho it did bust up his suit he was still alive and on the smaller battery to.

Still think IM takes it.

By the way Optimus Prime is pretty much the coolest name ever!!!

Originally posted by Evangel94
Well, Tony could have shot down those jets at any time if he really wanted to. Now because he didn't want to shoot them down, he spent his whole time running away from them while they shot at him both with missiles and guns.

MMM hmmm. Tony was actually HIT by some ordinance. Now you observe, he spent "his whole time running away from them"

Essentially, you confirm he couldn't escape by that statement right there. I'm not debating whether IM could have destroyed them if he intended to do so, that's the point that everyone gets hung up with.

The point is that to avoid confrontation...you run away from a fight Tony was unable to run away as you yourself stated he spent "his whole time running away from them".


No. He got hit by their fire...obviously he didn't get shot down, but that's much more the durability of his gold titanium or whatever his suit is made from than maneuverability.

If he out-maneuvered them, he should never have been hit...but he was hit. Once by ordinance, and again when the force knocked him into the smaller wing of one of the raptors. So basically, he was hit twice, once by ordinance, and another time by the force of being driven back by the ordinance, and getting struck by the plane.

If he out-maneuvered them, then all of those situations should not come to pass. But they did. Since he was not looking for a fight, he should not be in a situation where he was vulnerable to their fire. He was.

Logically, why would he get hit by their ordinance, and be close enough to them to make physical contact with one of the planes......while he was trying to avoid fighting them. The only other explanation is that tony wanted to test the limits of the suit, and discovered he could not out run F22 raptors.



Impressive, but you forget he did that after he realized he couldn't out-run the jets, and in fact were closing in on him.

Now the whole point of my post is that Starscream displayed exceptional maneuverability, far superior to normal pilots and that was stated in the movie.

Let's replicate the situation. Iron man is being chased by Starscream. Iron Man will get hit...as the air force raptors hit him. Tony was trying to escape, and could not. Cybertronian ordinance>>>US military ordinance. Tony was worried about 1 conventional missile, that is proved by his deployment of countermeasures since he could neither out-run the missile nor could he be confident that the suit would survive a direct impact.

Now suppose Iron Man is not being chased by starscream...but rather is chasing starscream. Iron man will not catch up to starscream. Proof: As mentioned above, Tony could not escape tactical range of the jets. So even if the Iron Man movie situation were reversed, and Iron Man was chasing the raptors instead of the raptors chasing him...see where I'm going?

***And this whole post doesn't even bring into play that Starscream can fly above the atmosphere, troposphere, etc. etc. into space while IM's armor has not been shown to do as such (regardless if IM solved the "icing problem" or not).***

Originally posted by Blight
Yeah I don't see not wanting to hurt the people inside of the jets as the same as not being able to defeat them.

Tony couldn't outrun the jets, and he got hit.

What is tony doing, hanging around and letting them shoot at him, so he can still be close enough to purposely save them later after he incapacitates the jets?

Originally posted by Tenebrous
Tony couldn't outrun the jets, and he got hit.

What is tony doing, hanging around and letting them shoot at him, so he can still be close enough to purposely save them later after he incapacitates the jets?

ok he couldn't out run them but he didn't want to hurt them so he pretty much had to sit there and take it. Until on of the jets accidently ran into him.

Anyway you know that stopping trick he did. You think he couldn't stop and shoot both planes in the rear sending them crashing down? Thats pretty much the standard way of taking down a air craft in air to air combat. Also couldn't IM fly with his back toward the ground and easily shoot back at the jets?

Starscream....

Unfortunately. .

I'm sorry but I dont consider the fact that during his 3rd flight ever, Tony had a hard time outmaneuvering experienced pilots in f22's. Tony was trying to get away from them, while on the phone, and was trying not to hurt them.

Originally posted by jrodslam
I dont think he used his repulsor beams in the movie. Even when he fought the Hulk buster Iron Man, he used flares. Here he even says it.

Also note that the regular shots from the f-22 had a part or his back smoking. I dont know if that was due to slight damage or smoke from heat. It happens right before he opens the flaps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6-h7pv0y08

Tony used flares on the other suit because he didn't have enough energy for his repulsor beam, but he did use them in the movie.

I would give it to Starscream because of his superior ability to absorb damage.

I'd give Tony the benefit of the doubt of having weaponry that can hurt Starscream but he took noticeable damage from the jet gunfire. With that, I'd give Starscream the benefit of the doubt on packing something stronger than that.

Originally posted by superchron
I'm sorry but I dont consider the fact that during his 3rd flight ever, Tony had a hard time outmaneuvering experienced pilots in f22's. Tony was trying to get away from them, while on the phone, and was trying not to hurt them.

you're still ignoring the fact that he got hit. Starscream>>>>>>experienced pilots in f22's. Cybetronian weaponry>>>>>air force weaponry

tony's 4th (presumably the 4th, which is this match) flight ever vs. Starscream, whose role in the decepticons is "air commander".

a bit more about starscream's weaponry.....several of starscream's missiles destroyed the legs of bumblebee

earlier in the film, the us airforce uses an AC-130 Spectre gunship against scroponok, if you remember. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC-130_Spectre
This is in addition to two A10 Thunderbolt air-to-ground fighters
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-10_Thunderbolt_II. Now if you recall these planes were just pummeling scorponok with many shots....the A10s alone are anti-tank planes....nevermind the huge AC-130 Spectre. After all those shots.....all they managed to do was break off the end of scorponok's tail. That gives everyone an idea about the durability of the decepticons when being shot at from the air. Now, keep in mind what i mentioned a bit earlier, a couple of starscream's missiles severed the legs of bumblebee, essentially damaging a transformer to a far higher degree than the air force did with two anti-tank planes and one huge aerial gunship.

now, tony was afrain of ONE missile from the F22.

it seems everyone is equating starscream's maneuverability, weapons, piloting skill, and durability to those F22 raptors that caught up with, and fired, and hit tony.

I always wondered. If IM being hit by what i assume heat seeking missiles. Why doesn't he just cut his boosters for say 20 seconds as the missile flies by then start it again.

Again he IM can stop in place where no transfomer or jet going at those speeds can. (well there is momentum and inertia and all that jazz but you know what i mean) Like i already said before Stop, let the enemy fly past and shoot them in the butt. The butt means directly in the engine thrusters where there should be no significant protection.

I think teh weapons that IM has will be enough especially if IM can get on the belly of a jet. So i assume taht he can get on th ebelly of Starscream. He had plenty of time to charge up any of his weapons (chest canon comes to mind) to blast away at the plane at point blank range.

Starscream for the way to easy win...i.m.o

Originally posted by Lord Feron
I always wondered. If IM being hit by what i assume heat seeking missiles. Why doesn't he just cut his boosters for say 20 seconds as the missile flies by then start it again.

Again he IM can stop in place where no transfomer or jet going at those speeds can. (well there is momentum and inertia and all that jazz but you know what i mean) Like i already said before Stop, let the enemy fly past and shoot them in the butt. The butt means directly in the engine thrusters where there should be no significant protection. There's no way to prove that...IM "can stop in place where no transformer or jet going at those speeds can". Perhaps I've got the advantage of having seen transformers again on tv this past weekend, while others may have seen it when it came out last year....

...starscream flew at full speed straight towards the hoover dam, flew under a bridge, swooped up, transformed in mid ascension, grabbed the bridge in mid-transformation, and landed on the bridge....all while slowing his velocity, transforming, and preventing himself from landing on the bridge with such force so as to not break it once he landed. Iron Man broke through his roof, into his living room, down to his basement, and ruined one of his cars, just by slowing down, then dropping 10 feet or so. Now I'll give you conventional jets, Iron Man can stop in place at those speeds, and conventional jets won't be able to replicate....but again you make the same error everyone else in the thread is, just because starscream looks like an F22....he does NOT fly like one, have weaponry like one, or have the same durability. He's far superior in every regard.

Starscream is a cybertronian strike jet....like Megatron in the movie was. When the TFs land on earth, they scan earth vehicles so they can take its form, not its function. Now, being a cybertronian strike jet appearing to be an F22...how would you know that it can't stop at full velocities? It's an alien craft...why are you equating alien craft to conventional jets? You can't.

You assume he can get to the belly of starscream....assuming he can get that close. as I proved in earlier posts Iron Man can't outrun F22s. On the converse, he couldn't catch up with one if he were chasing it.

What is iron man gonna do when Starscream flies into orbit...then comes back in and strafes a bewildered tony?

More on maneuverability....recall that when Tony is taking the suit for a ride, he blunders down the street in Santa Monica (I think) wildly and nearly loses control several times.....contrast with Starscream being the first decepticon to arrive in the city where the autobots and military are, diving through the streets...which prompts the military on the ground to recognize that Starscream is not one of their pilots by any means.

Think about it....something as large as an F22 strike plane flying through city streets at high velocities......impossible for any professional pilot, let alone an extreme amateur like Tony Stark, even if only wearing a suit, as he failed to exhibit any kind of precision when flying through the streets.

Originally posted by Tenebrous
More on maneuverability....recall that when Tony is taking the suit for a ride, he blunders down the street in Santa Monica (I think) wildly and nearly loses control several times.....contrast with Starscream being the first decepticon to arrive in the city where the autobots and military are, diving through the streets...which prompts the military on the ground to recognize that Starscream is not one of their pilots by any means.

Think about it....something as large as an F22 strike plane flying through city streets at high velocities......impossible for any professional pilot, let alone an extreme amateur like Tony Stark, even if only wearing a suit, as he failed to exhibit any kind of precision when flying through the streets.
He says F22 pilots wouldn't fly below buildings. Not that they couldn't. He recognizes it as alien due to him not following protocol. And also because he shot at them.

And for it being impossible, he sure was doing it, albeit very haphazardly and out of control.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
He says F22 pilots wouldn't fly below buildings. Not that they couldn't. He recognizes it as alien due to him not following protocol. And also because he shot at them.

I see, the mandate of not flying below buildings has nothing to do with the inherent danger and human error that arises when flying a high speed plane 10 stories above traffic lights and turning with more precision than a car going 30 mph. Now I understand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_New_York_City_plane_crash#NTSB_investigation

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/268780

I saw Tony piloting through the streets in a suit about the size of a man. I must have missed Tony piloting through the streets in a 62-foot long craft. And a wingspan of 45 feet.

Originally posted by Tenebrous
There's no way to prove that...IM "can stop in place where no transformer or jet going at those speeds can". Perhaps I've got the advantage of having seen transformers again on tv this past weekend, while others may have seen it when it came out last year....

...starscream flew at full speed straight towards the hoover dam, flew under a bridge, swooped up, transformed in mid ascension, grabbed the bridge in mid-transformation, and landed on the bridge....all while slowing his velocity, transforming, and preventing himself from landing on the bridge with such force so as to not break it once he landed. Iron Man broke through his roof, into his living room, down to his basement, and ruined one of his cars, just by slowing down, then dropping 10 feet or so. Now I'll give you conventional jets, Iron Man can stop in place at those speeds, and conventional jets won't be able to replicate....but again you make the same error everyone else in the thread is, just because starscream looks like an F22....he does NOT fly like one, have weaponry like one, or have the same durability. He's far superior in every regard.

Starscream is a cybertronian strike jet....like Megatron in the movie was. When the TFs land on earth, they scan earth vehicles so they can take its form, not its function. Now, being a cybertronian strike jet appearing to be an F22...how would you know that it can't stop at full velocities? It's an alien craft...why are you equating alien craft to conventional jets? You can't.

You assume he can get to the belly of starscream....assuming he can get that close. as I proved in earlier posts Iron Man can't outrun F22s. On the converse, he couldn't catch up with one if he were chasing it.

What is iron man gonna do when Starscream flies into orbit...then comes back in and strafes a bewildered tony?

More on maneuverability....recall that when Tony is taking the suit for a ride, he blunders down the street in Santa Monica (I think) wildly and nearly loses control several times.....contrast with Starscream being the first decepticon to arrive in the city where the autobots and military are, diving through the streets...which prompts the military on the ground to recognize that Starscream is not one of their pilots by any means.

Think about it....something as large as an F22 strike plane flying through city streets at high velocities......impossible for any professional pilot, let alone an extreme amateur like Tony Stark, even if only wearing a suit, as he failed to exhibit any kind of precision when flying through the streets.

okay not stop in place but pretty much bring his velocity to almost a stand still when in the movie they past him when he let out his flaps and they were like wtf!

look like starscream kinda swung around curbing his momentum but im not too sure. Anyway its totally different doing that in the air and continuing to be airborne.

As for the weight thing the hoover damn is far greater a structure then Starks house which is not ment to hold back like a gazillion gallons of pressure coming from a large body of water. THe roof of his building is ment to protect from rain, his living room able to withstand a large piano or anything else one would normall put in the living room, and a car both starscream and iron would easly crumple a car if they stepped on it (i assume Starscream should be far heavier then IM anyway look how big he is and if he is suppose to be have greater fire power and great durability and all that cybertornian jizz jazz it would be safe to assume that he should be heavier then the average F-22 or whatever jet which is def heavier then the iron man suit.)

In the movie it didn't say starscream is a cybertronian strike jet did they (i mean did they i don't remember). I mean Yes i agree the Starscream is a cybertronian strike jet but the IM suit is suppose to have so much other stuff technological wise but they didn't do it in the movie or even alluded to it. I mean yes Starscream is a alien space craft and yeah i don't know if it can do that in the atmosphere but neither do you because it never happened in the movie. The reason im relating alien craft to manmade jets is because in the movie starscream went up against jets and IM had to deal with jets and that is how we are trying to debate based on something both movies have in common. Without this commonality it would be all speculation. If starscream never fought jets but fought subs and IM also fought subs this thread would be "who would win in a under water fight." That is why im comparing Starscream to a jet.

Well in the movie the jets were chasing him and he slowed down to a point where the pilots could not react and lost sight of him. He grabbed them in their pursuit after him. Yes starscream could possible catch IM but it wopuld be like flying cicrles around him but he could likily do the same here. Run a bit lets starscream try and persue him and then when he is about to catch IM slowdown let Starscream blow past him and grab his belly! for a nice hug.

IM would let go but I think IM would have more then enough time to damage or destroy Starscream. I don't know the math but from teh height of normal altitude of what I assume they would be fighting against each other on it should take 10-45 secs atleast and i mean im sure it takes longer but lets just give starscream the benefit of the doubt. Ironman can launch all his weapons and including that tank buster weapon (that missle that was the size of a chap stick that stuck on to the tank and it went KABOOM!)

As someone did mention IM did go through the streets i mean even all crazy like but he didn't crash into anything.

Originally posted by Tenebrous
I see, the mandate of not flying below buildings has nothing to do with the inherent danger and human error that arises when flying a high speed plane 10 stories above traffic lights and turning with more precision than a car going 30 mph. Now I understand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_New_York_City_plane_crash#NTSB_investigation

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/268780

I saw Tony piloting through the streets in a suit about the size of a man. I must have missed Tony piloting through the streets in a 62-foot long craft. And a wingspan of 45 feet.

Was Starscream flying in between buildings?

" I saw Tony piloting through the streets in a suit about the size of a man. I must have missed Tony piloting through the streets in a 62-foot long craft. And a wingspan of 45 feet." oh ok I assumed that you were saying that IM couldn't do it.

As for the later comment about size then we are comparing apples to oranges hence causing the whole manuverbility argeument via manuvering through streets moot. As you said one is a size of a large man and one is a size of a large aircrft.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
" I saw Tony piloting through the streets in a suit about the size of a man. I must have missed Tony piloting through the streets in a 62-foot long craft. And a wingspan of 45 feet." oh ok I assumed that you were saying that IM couldn't do it.

As for the later comment about size then we are comparing apples to oranges hence causing the whole manuverbility argeument via manuvering through streets moot. As you said one is a size of a large man and one is a size of a large aircrft.

It is not moot. You missed the point where tony struggled to maneuver in a man-sized suit.

Starscream did not, in the same situation.

Originally posted by Mindset
Was Starscream flying in between buildings?

He dove in through buildings to attack bumblebee and iron hide, destroying bumblebee's legs in the process while in jet form with missile attacks.

Later, he again flew through the streets, transformed in mid-flight, and landed on his feet to fight iron hide and ratchet, both of whom he incapacitated by his quick strike.

As far as I remember, he only made dives into the streets in straight lines. I don't recall him taking any turns within the streets like a car.

Originally posted by Tenebrous
I see, the mandate of not flying below buildings has nothing to do with the inherent danger and human error that arises when flying a high speed plane 10 stories above traffic lights and turning with more precision than a car going 30 mph. Now I understand.
You're putting sarcasm in my mouth.


You said it was "impossible for any professional pilot, let alone an extreme amateur like Tony Stark, even if only wearing a suit"

Even with the suit it would be impossible? It clearly wasn't.