WM Thor vs Silver Sufer

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The Great Galen
Sufer is blloodlusted as well, they are both fighting at the max of there powers...who takes it?

skyfather
wm thor ftw
regular thor gives surfer a hard time..besides surfer,dr starnge or the infinity watch couldnt handle wm thorerm

guy222
thor

The Great Galen
Well this would be a non jobbing SS though, a well written bloodlusted SS is the one im talking about.

guy222
one of norrin's best feats, is calling upon the crunch to defeat t&a

llagrok
I don't think WM Thor is that much better than regular Thor. He fights like a dumb shit!

tkitna
Hasent WM Thor already smacked Surfer around? Well, I know it wasnt conclusive because of Beta Ray Bill, but I do believe Thor was in the position to win. I'll have to reread that issue again.

Grinning Goku
Thor based solely on what I've read in this thread.

quanchi112
Thor wins.

Lord Feron
SS wins big grin

The Great Galen
Hmm well although I believe SS is above Thor, WM was pretty good...im undecided at the momment.

JerseyMage
Thor

Soljer
Considering that the OP made it 'CBR-Surfer,' he most definitely wins.

If we consider Warrior Madness Thor vs. the Surfer as we normally do, Thor wins.

ultimatethor
A non jobbing current surfer for da win. He was great in annihalation and channeling the crunch puts him on a really high level. Plus when he fights thor normally he really doesnt use his powers that well but using them to their fullest he should win especially as WM thor does not evn fight as smartly as normal thor

janus77
Surfer bloodlusted should obliterate Thor, WM or not.
it's only 'cos Thor's more popular that he even manages to hang with Surfer (and of course, there's the jobbing aspect of Surfer no expression).

Surfer is still millions of times faster, can phase and attack Thor's mind (and soul - he has beaten gods/monsters on the astral plane), he has far more versatility than Thor and no Achilles heal in the shape of a mallet without which he cannot do much. Surfer should always trump Thor, in any rational evaluation of their abilities and potentials.

also, Surfer can endure attacks from Aegis and Tenebreous, yet normal Thor states that he almost died from a +warning+ blast by The Surfer.

llagrok
How can you get more versatility than matter manipulation?

Fanboy
Thor I think I remember Surfer saying his power was dwarfed by Thor's.

ultimatethor
Originally posted by llagrok
How can you get more versatility than matter manipulation?

There are levels of matter manipulation and surfer is a level up on thor.(If not a few levels). He has matter manip feats that blow thors away

janus77
Originally posted by llagrok
How can you get more versatility than matter manipulation?
easy, manipulate the waves and particles that form and animate 'matter'.

Surfer's beyond Thor by quite some margin, he can synthesise magic (Odinforce), can fight and kill via the Astral plane and generally do every-single-thing Thor can do, but better and on a greater scale.

Surfer's durability alone makes WM Thor look like a flea.

llagrok
Odin allowed him to "Synthesise" the Odinforce. And it happened in a comic where someone was able to TAKE Stormbreaker from BRB. A rugged scoundrel at that.

No spiritual attack nor telepathic attack would work on Thor during warrior madness, Karma blast failed and Odin was barely able to perform the feat.

Both Thor and Surfer have taken injuries that would kill normal beings, Thor has been phased with the ground, broken every single bone and tendon in his body (yet moved) and the Surfer has been shattered, etc.

Since Thor's matter/energy manipulation stems from magic, he only needs to "make mjolnir do it" instead of thinking it through. Which lets him reverse any injury or MM attack on his person.

I've yet to see the Surfer reverse really fatal injuries on himself. If you've got an examples, I'd gladly look at them.

DigiMark007
Originally posted by janus77
yet normal Thor states that he almost died from a +warning+ blast by The Surfer.

laughing out loud

No objection to a well-written Surfer winning, but have you actually seen the scan you just referenced there? If it didn't even knock out the street levelers, or visibly hurt anyone on panel, how is it that it supposedly "almost killed" Thor? He was angry and overstated the blast...happens probably twice an issue in comics. Believe what you actually see on-panel, not what it said as subjective opinion.

The Great Galen
So a well written SS for 6/10 is what im getting.

janus77
Originally posted by DigiMark007
laughing out loud

No objection to a well-written Surfer winning, but have you actually seen the scan you just referenced there? If it didn't even knock out the street levelers, or visibly hurt anyone on panel, how is it that it supposedly "almost killed" Thor? He was angry and overstated the blast...happens probably twice an issue in comics. Believe what you actually see on-panel, not what it said as subjective opinion.
Thor states that such a blast (which Surfer only intended as a warning blast) could kill them (Thor and the others who Surfer sought to deter).

how many times does Thor indulge in such chickheartedness, seems somewhat unlike Thor to me?


anyway, it was just to bring balance to the claims that Surfer says Thor is more powerful than him (this being Surfer at a time when he was depowered by Galactus, nevermind the fact that Surfer has been upgraded several times since then).

Surfer is just way out of Thor's league, imo.

janus77
Originally posted by llagrok
Odin allowed him to "Synthesise" the Odinforce. And it happened in a comic where someone was able to TAKE Stormbreaker from BRB. A rugged scoundrel at that.

No spiritual attack nor telepathic attack would work on Thor during warrior madness, Karma blast failed and Odin was barely able to perform the feat.

Both Thor and Surfer have taken injuries that would kill normal beings, Thor has been phased with the ground, broken every single bone and tendon in his body (yet moved) and the Surfer has been shattered, etc.

Since Thor's matter/energy manipulation stems from magic, he only needs to "make mjolnir do it" instead of thinking it through. Which lets him reverse any injury or MM attack on his person.

I've yet to see the Surfer reverse really fatal injuries on himself. If you've got an examples, I'd gladly look at them.
magic <<< Power Cosmic, in general, from what I've seen. characters that tower over Odin (in fact, against whom Odin would fail to even register) are humbled by Galactus who solely utilises the Power Cosmic.

I've yet to see Thor do the kind of energy manipulation, the sophistication and scale, that Surfer does, I dispute the idea that Thor even comes remotely close to Surfer in matter/energy manipulation.
Thor has some magic tricks, but nothing to match or even compare with Surfer. Surfer's evolved a PLANET, controlled minds across a planet and given a whole world's population emotional/spiritual "joy"... mentally.

also, when has Thor ever phased matter or phased himself through matter? Surfer does that stuff without effort, Surfer works on the actual primal forces that manifest themselves in the movement and formation of matter, Thor's magic doesn't have anything like the finesse, from what I've seen (can you provide scans otherwise?)

"allowing" someone to do something is, in the strictest sense, giving permission, it is not enabling or assisting nor in any other way giving aid to the person. Surfer did it with +his+ power, of +his+ volition, it was still his feat. the only thing you might say is that Surfer, wisely, would not want to tread on Odin's toes by doing such a thing as synthesising Odinforce without Odin's blessing.

regarding healing/rejuvination. Surfer EVOLVED a planet, stands to reason he can heal himself. moreover SURFER healed Thor!

Surfer also pulled himself together, INSTANTLY, after being smashed to pieces, several times, during his fight with UniLord.

Classic Surfer > Thor in healing. Current Surfer is >>>>> Classic Surfer.

Surfer survived everything T&A threw at him, he even survived The Crunch Energies long enough for Galactus to be impressed.

lannfear
thor ftw.....when they first met......SS stated that the power from thors hammer was mightier than his power cosmic.....i take it surfer has had power ups since then.......has thor ?

llagrok
Originally posted by janus77
magic <<< Power Cosmic, in general, from what I've seen. characters that tower over Odin (in fact, against whom Odin would fail to even register) are humbled by Galactus who solely utilises the Power Cosmic.

Yes, but Silver Surfer cannot replicate Galactus' feats, nor can Thor replicate Odin's feats. The Odinforce does not represent the strongest force within magic anyways.

Originally posted by janus77
I've yet to see Thor do the kind of energy manipulation, the sophistication and scale, that Surfer does, I dispute the idea that Thor even comes remotely close to Surfer in matter/energy manipulation.
Thor has some magic tricks, but nothing to match or even compare with Surfer. Surfer's evolved a PLANET, controlled minds across a planet and given a whole world's population emotional/spiritual "joy"... mentally..

And if I'm not mistaken, the whole "emotional spiritual joy" thing happened in Silver Surfer: Requiem. If I'm mistaken, I'd like to see a scan.

Originally posted by janus77
also, when has Thor ever phased matter or phased himself through matter? Surfer does that stuff without effort, Surfer works on the actual primal forces that manifest themselves in the movement and formation of matter, Thor's magic doesn't have anything like the finesse, from what I've seen (can you provide scans otherwise?)


Thor was fused with the concrete once and "phased" out of it using Mjolnir.

Originally posted by janus77
"allowing" someone to do something is, in the strictest sense, giving permission, it is not enabling or assisting nor in any other way giving aid to the person. Surfer did it with +his+ power, of +his+ volition, it was still his feat. the only thing you might say is that Surfer, wisely, would not want to tread on Odin's toes by doing such a thing as synthesising Odinforce without Odin's blessing.

Odin created Mjolnir, which NO ONE else has ever been able to lift unless permitted. The Surfer wouldn't be able to lift Mjolnir without permission (unless I'm wrong) so I doubt he would be able to replicate the Odinforce without permission.

And he has NOT done anything with the "synthesised" Odinforce besides reviving BRB and altering him, which he did together with Odin. And once again I call attention to the fact that BRB's hammer was used by another space pirate in that very comic.

Originally posted by janus77
regarding healing/rejuvination. Surfer EVOLVED a planet, stands to reason he can heal himself. moreover SURFER healed Thor!

Ok? Thor can use mjolnir to do similar things. Evolving a planet won't do much in their fight.

Originally posted by janus77
Surfer survived everything T&A threw at him, he even survived The Crunch Energies long enough for Galactus to be impressed.

Are you kidding me? You're STILL throwing that fight around? T&A disposed of him with TWO attacks. He survived an energy blast and a physical attack. The writer of Annihilation also noted that they weren't equal to Galactus, but were only able to face him thanks to tech from Thanos.

Even without the interview, the only "impressive" thing the Surfer did there was channel the crunch energies. Unfortunately that makes absolutely no difference in this fight, they won't be fighting in the Kyln ruins.

Originally posted by janus77
Classic Surfer > Thor in healing. Current Surfer is >>>>> Classic Surfer.

No objections to this. The Surfer couldn't heal Air Walker though.

Originally posted by janus77
Surfer also pulled himself together, INSTANTLY, after being smashed to pieces, several times, during his fight with UniLord.


Seems to me that Surfer's greatest feats comes from ONE single fight. We have a name for those kinds of fights, don't we? Where a character fights someone who's far above him and still prevails smile

I'm also assuming we're using the classic Surfer and classic Thor.

Either way, Thor defeated Durok. Durok whom the Surfer couldn't even scratch, he had to BFR him to the future. And Thor didn't even use Mjolnir.

Mindship
I dunno.

I do feel that classic Surfer should've defeated classic Thor (and arguably he did but then paused in his attack, this allowing Thor to recover).

For the sake of fun (and out of respect for Thor fans, a generally rational bunch), I've never argued for Surfer winning (or that he should've won) against WM Thor (especially if there is any truth to WMT being 10x more powerful).

As for current Surfer against WM Thor...that's a toughie, mostly because I'm not sure current Surfer really is so much more powerful (what Galactus says is somewhat ambiguous), or he just had his inhibitions removed. He did withstand major blows from (near?-) Galactus level beings, but then, we don't know how WM Thor might've done against T & A (oh I can hear the comments from the peanut gallery now).

For the moment, I'm tempted to say current Surfer wins, but I will chalk this up to bias, if nothing else.

llagrok
I believe T&A would've stomped Thor.

Just like I think they would've stomped WM Thor, current Surfer, the Keeper and King Thor together. Surfer beat them thanks to his impressive ability to channel the energies that BIRTHED them. He released the crunch energies on them and killed them.

I would give regular Thor 5/10 against the Surfer, and WM Thor maybe 6/10.

Ouallada
Thor has only been in WM like twice? I can't remember any other instances. Has he ever shown any kind of intelligent use of his more exotic powers in WM?

llagrok
Originally posted by Ouallada
Thor has only been in WM like twice? I can't remember any other instances. Has he ever shown any kind of intelligent use of his more exotic powers in WM?

616 Thor has only been WM once, which was induced my a mental disease or something. After that he couldn't induce the madness anymore, because he had become too human or something. He mentioned it during the Onslaught Saga.

Either way, he has used little more than hammer throwing and lightning when "mad"

ultimatethor
Originally posted by llagrok


Thor was fused with the concrete once and "phased" out of it using Mjolnir.



Odin created Mjolnir, which NO ONE else has ever been able to lift unless permitted. The Surfer wouldn't be able to lift Mjolnir without permission (unless I'm wrong) so I doubt he would be able to replicate the Odinforce without permission.

And he has NOT done anything with the "synthesised" Odinforce besides reviving BRB and altering him, which he did together with Odin. And once again I call attention to the fact that BRB's hammer was used by another space pirate in that very comic.



Ok? Thor can use mjolnir to do similar things. Evolving a planet won't do much in their fight.



Are you kidding me? You're STILL throwing that fight around? T&A disposed of him with TWO attacks. He survived an energy blast and a physical attack. The writer of Annihilation also noted that they weren't equal to Galactus, but were only able to face him thanks to tech from Thanos.

Even without the interview, the only "impressive" thing the Surfer did there was channel the crunch energies. Unfortunately that makes absolutely no difference in this fight, they won't be fighting in the Kyln ruins.



No objections to this. The Surfer couldn't heal Air Walker though.



Seems to me that Surfer's greatest feats comes from ONE single fight. We have a name for those kinds of fights, don't we? Where a character fights someone who's far above him and still prevails smile

I'm also assuming we're using the classic Surfer and classic Thor.

.


When it comes to matter and enrgy manipualtion well the surfer is indeed above thor and he has the feats to prove it. That should not evn be an argument. Thor does not have anything evn close to evolving an entire planet by billions of years or channeling the crunch or surfers unilord feat to name a few.

Now to the whole odinforce thing lifting mjolnir and copying its enrgy signature are two very different things. Odins put an enchantment on the object mjolnir preventing anyone other dan thor from lifting it. SS probably cant lift it. Howver manipulating the enrgy from it is a totally different thing. Surfer would certainly not need permission to synthesize its enrgy just like he would not need permission to absorb enrgy balsts from thor which is another form of enrgy manipulation. A person does not need permission to manipulate enrgy. Obviously to avoid trouble he certainly needed odin to assent to him doing it.

And now to the Tand A fight, it really did show a huge durability increase in the surfer. Lets us not forget that he was oneshotted by odin who is far below T and A so for him to survive evn one intended to kill attack from near galctus level beings is impressive whichever way you look at it.

Overall surfer just has that bit more than thor in evry department be it healing, matter manip, enrgy manip or whatever else you would like to add.

And using Durok as a benchmark is ABC logic. I could use the hulk in the same way and we would have a whole different story

llagrok
Originally posted by ultimatethor
Lets us not forget that he was oneshotted by odin who is far below T and A

Prove it.

Ouallada
Originally posted by llagrok
616 Thor has only been WM once, which was induced my a mental disease or something. After that he couldn't induce the madness anymore, because he had become too human or something. He mentioned it during the Onslaught Saga.

Either way, he has used little more than hammer throwing and lightning when "mad"

Wasn't he alluding seriously to descending into WM in one of his battles against Hulk? Either way, you're right in that Thor hasn't shown versatility to any kind of extent when in WM, even though the sample size arguably isn't very large. Due to that reason alone, I expect SS to take some kind of majority.

Soljer
Hulk >>>>> Warrior Madness Thor.

Silver Surfer >>>>> Hulk

Simple math, no?

stick out tongue.

darthgoober
Originally posted by llagrok
616 Thor has only been WM once, which was induced my a mental disease or something. After that he couldn't induce the madness anymore, because he had become too human or something. He mentioned it during the Onslaught Saga.

Either way, he has used little more than hammer throwing and lightning when "mad"
I though 616 Thor used went into WM against Him(Adam Warlock), Maestro, and the whole Blood and Thunder arc?

llagrok
Originally posted by darthgoober
I though 616 Thor used went into WM against Him(Adam Warlock), Maestro, and the whole Blood and Thunder arc?

Wasn't 616 Thor that fought the Maestro.

And the Adam Warlock time you're referring to was under the Blood and Thunder arc.

DigiMark007
Originally posted by janus77
Thor states that such a blast (which Surfer only intended as a warning blast) could kill them (Thor and the others who Surfer sought to deter).

how many times does Thor indulge in such chickheartedness, seems somewhat unlike Thor to me?

Seems unlike him to me too, but the fact is it didn't phase street-levelers, so there's no rational way Thor felt more than a tingle.

darthgoober
Originally posted by llagrok
Wasn't 616 Thor that fought the Maestro.

And the Adam Warlock time you're referring to was under the Blood and Thunder arc.
Ok on Maestro, but I'm not thinking of Blood and Thunder in regards to Adam(though I know he was there too). I'm referring to Adam's first appearance when he kidnapped Sif and Thor had to track them down.

llagrok
Originally posted by darthgoober
Ok on Maestro, but I'm not thinking of Blood and Thunder in regards to Adam(though I know he was there too). I'm referring to Adam's first appearance when he kidnapped Sif and Thor had to track them down.

I'm pretty sure he didn't go WM there, could be wrong.

darthgoober
Originally posted by llagrok
I'm pretty sure he didn't go WM there, could be wrong.
I'm almost positive that it was specifically stated that he went WM, but then again that might just been an impression I got and then latched on to as well.

llagrok
Hmm, I'll make sure to check that out.

janus77
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Seems unlike him to me too, but the fact is it didn't phase street-levelers, so there's no rational way Thor felt more than a tingle.
and the fact is that Surfer's power is shown to be sufficient for him to easily withstand a pretty angry Hulk's attacks, something Thor (WM or not) has never managed to do. so for Surfer to say that Thor's more powerful would be just as obviously false.

Surfer by his feats alone is far and away superior to Thor, he just lacks the fanbase and appeal of Thor (and of course the very enduring appeal of Norse mythology) to allow him to be shown in proper relation to Thor, imo.

quanchi112
Originally posted by janus77
and the fact is that Surfer's power is shown to be sufficient for him to easily withstand a pretty angry Hulk's attacks, something Thor (WM or not) has never managed to do. so for Surfer to say that Thor's more powerful would be just as obviously false.

Surfer by his feats alone is far and away superior to Thor, he just lacks the fanbase and appeal of Thor (and of course the very enduring appeal of Norse mythology) to allow him to be shown in proper relation to Thor, imo. Uhm he lost to wm Thor in this series. Case closed. He would lose again.

The Great Galen
Surfer fights Thor the sameway he fights thanos....completly leaving behind sense and rational thinking. Honestly I never quite understood why SS never oneshotted Thor.

Mr. Slippyfist
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Surfer fights Thor the sameway he fights thanos....completly leaving behind sense and rational thinking. Honestly I never quite understood why SS never oneshotted Thor. No he doesn't.

Mr. Slippyfist
Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm almost positive that it was specifically stated that he went WM, but then again that might just been an impression I got and then latched on to as well. No... he did. Balder commented on it a couple times.

quanchi112
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Surfer fights Thor the sameway he fights thanos....completly leaving behind sense and rational thinking. Honestly I never quite understood why SS never oneshotted Thor. Surfer isnt as powerful as you think he is. Thor is a bad matchup for him. While I think Surfer can beat regular Thor this wm Thor was too much for Norrin to beat. This Thor was an animal. An animal I tellz ya.

CPT Space Bomb
WM Thor owns Surfer.

They have fought 3 times in comics, and Thor has won every time. Surfer even admitted that with Loki's power combined with his own, he still couldn't beat Thor. And that was normal Thor.

WM Thor fought Surfer and Beta Ray Bill together and beat them both.

Thor wins.

Mr. Slippyfist
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
WM Thor owns Surfer.

They have fought 3 times in comics, and Thor has won every time. Surfer even admitted that with Loki's power combined with his own, he still couldn't beat Thor. And that was normal Thor.
Except... he did beat Thor. confused

::TNA_TITAN::
thor

CPT Space Bomb
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Except... he did beat Thor. confused When? In that fight with Loki he did not beat Thor. Thor admitted that he was holding back and not even fighting, and Surfer couldn't even beat Thor there.

Mr. Slippyfist
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
When? In that fight with Loki he did not beat Thor. Thor admitted that he was holding back and not even fighting, and Surfer couldn't even beat Thor there. Surfer had him pinned on the ground while Thor couldn't do shit all. Surfer stopped attacking him, and the fight stopped, and Thor grabbed Mjolnir that Surfer had previously knocked out of his hand.

Thor never said he was holding back, and he was fighting back.

Surfer's comments don't match what was on panel, and you're smoking crack if you think Thor won that fight.

CPT Space Bomb
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Surfer had him pinned on the ground while Thor couldn't do shit all. Surfer stopped attacking him, and the fight stopped, and Thor grabbed Mjolnir that Surfer had previously knocked out of his hand.

Thor never said he was holding back, and he was fighting back.

Surfer's comments don't match what was on panel, and you're smoking crack if you think Thor won that fight.
Well, since I'm new to this site I can't post links or pics
sad

I have scans of that fight I'd love to show you where Surfer (I meant Surfer originally not Thor) admits that Thor knew about what was going on and was Holding back.

Also, Thor overcomes Surfer's power and breaks Mjolnir free with one hit. Surfer was amazed.

And also, Surfer admits in that fight That Mjolnir ALONE is greater than his Power Cosmic.

And since Loki had combined his power with Surfer's, even if Surfer had won (which he didn't), you can't count it as a win for him.

Mr. Slippyfist
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Well, since I'm new to this site I can't post links or pics
sad

I have scans of that fight I'd love to show you where Surfer (I meant Surfer originally not Thor) admits that Thor knew about what was going on and was Holding back.

Also, Thor overcomes Surfer's power and breaks Mjolnir free with one hit. Surfer was amazed.

And also, Surfer admits in that fight That Mjolnir ALONE is greater than his Power Cosmic.

And since Loki had combined his power with Surfer's, even if Surfer had won (which he didn't), you can't count it as a win for him. Surfer said Thor was holding back though, and obviously Surfer knows everything about Thor.
Actually Surfer made an assumption that Thor was holding back. Is this truth enough?

Ya, I know. However, this is where Thor loses. And Thor does lose.
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1812/silversurferv1004p041co8.jpg
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/6692/silversurferv1004p042ul2.jpg

Pretty irrelevant when Surfer won that encounter, isn't it?
Even though details are explainable, Surfer won that fight, which you previously said he lost, and that's all that matters.

You could. Surfer has gotten multiple upgrades since that fight (3), and he was depowered by the sonic shark previously. Either way though, Thor did not win.

CPT Space Bomb
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Surfer said Thor was holding back though, and obviously Surfer knows everything about Thor.
Actually Surfer made an assumption that Thor was holding back. Is this truth enough?

Ya, I know. However, this is where Thor loses. And Thor does lose.
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1812/silversurferv1004p041co8.jpg
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/6692/silversurferv1004p042ul2.jpg

Pretty irrelevant when Surfer won that encounter, isn't it?
Even though details are explainable, Surfer won that fight, which you previously said he lost, and that's all that matters.

You could. Surfer has gotten multiple upgrades since that fight (3), and he was depowered by the sonic shark previously. Either way though, Thor did not win. Thor wasn't fighting!! laughing
Surfer was amped with Loki's Power and he admitted Thor was holding back.

Sure Surfer was able to knock Thor down for a second, but Thor busted through (with just his strength alone) Surfer's shield on Mjolnir which Surfer said he couldn't.

Surfer, with his own power has never beaten Thor. This fight with Loki/Surfer, I still count as a win For Thor because Thor wasn't even fighting and made Surfer admit he was weaker.

Sure I guess in terms of Pure fighting Thor didn't win because he wasnt fighting, but it certainly wasn't a win for Surfer, if anything it made him look worse.

Mr. Slippyfist
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
THOR WASN'T FIGHTING!! laughing
Surfer was amped with Loki's Power and he admitted Thor was holding back.

Sure Surfer was able to knock Thor down for a second, but Thor busted through (with just his strength alone) Surfer's shield on Mjolnir which Surfer said he couldn't.

Surfer, with his own power has never beaten Thor. This fight with Loki/Surfer, I still count as a win For Thor because Thor wasn't even fighting and made Surfer admit he was weaker.

Sure I guess in terms of Pure fighting Thor didn't win because he wasnt, but it certainly wasn't a win for Surfer, if anything it made him look worse. Is that why he kept throwing his hammer at Surfer? And he didn't get a chance anyway, because Surfer was too fast for him.
OK.

No he didn't. Thor was knocked on his stomach crawling for Mjolnir after Surfer stopped hitting him.
He broke Surfer's 'cosmic blast' that Surfer hastily threw up to separate the two. He later separated them by blasting the shit out of Thor.

OK. You still added it in, and said Thor won, which he didn't. You brought it up, not me.
Thor was fighting, and Surfer's comment doesn't even make sense. As he said:
"I have seen his mallet's magic! It is truly mightier than my cosmic force!"
Did he see the magic when Thor's strength broke through the shield, or did he see it when Thor's hammer kept missing him?

No it didn't. And you're counting a 'personality' victory as a win, rather than the actual fight.
That's a horrible way to go about it, especially when Thor was dropped.

CPT Space Bomb
Nothing you can say makes me think Surfer won. He was AMPED by Loki and Still admitted Thor was holding back. End of story.


Don't get me wrong, I thin Current Surfer could probably beat or win as many times as Classic Thor if they fought, MAYBE even win a slim majority.

But just based off of their comic fights alone, Thor uses his head/powers better than Surfer and until Surfer actually wins a legitimate fight against Thor, I'll have to say Thor wins.

Mr. Slippyfist
Another thing to note...
Surfer has had three powerups since his last fight with Thor.

smile

CPT Space Bomb
And Thor has The Odinforce now! If they fought Now Thor would utterly own Surfer.


Look, don't misunderstand where I'm coming from, I think that Surfer jobbed in that Loki/Surfer vs Thor fight. I think classic Thor vs classic Surfer is a little in favor of Thor, and Classic Thor vs Current Surfer is even, if not in favor of Surfer. I like both characters, but Thor has the better record between them.

Mr. Slippyfist
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
And Thor has The Odinforce now! If they fought Now Thor would utterly own Surfer.


Look, don't misunderstand where I'm coming from, I think that Surfer jobbed in that Loki/Surfer vs Thor fight. I think classic Thor vs classic Surfer is a little in favor of Thor, and Classic Thor vs Current Surfer is even, if not in favor of Surfer. I like both characters, but Thor has the better record between them. And Thor is WM in this thread. smile

No he didn't. Surfer was weakened by the sonic shark earlier in his stay on Earth and it lasted until a little bit after his fight with Thor.

And besides, Surfer back then was not as fast as he is now, and he still showed us that he can beat Thor using speed/power. Thor couldn't hit him.

CPT Space Bomb
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
And Thor is WM in this thread. smileWhich is why he wins the easy majority.

where did it say it lasted until then? And even if it did, He still admitted that Mjolnir alone > his power cosmic.
Prove this statement. If you are settling to saying that Surfer "beat" Thor in that fight, you are stooping to pretty embarrasing lows. Surfer was AMPED with Loki's power! The fact he didn't just obliterate Thor is laughable and sad. Which is why I say he jobbed. In my opinion, he would have wiped the floor with Thor from the beginning if he wasn't jobbing.

Thor was never visibly hurt. When he got up and destroyed Surfer's barrier around Mjolnir, he was visibly fine. And that barrier Surfer said Thor couldn't break it, which he did.

The most I'll say is it wasn't a win for Thor (because he was holding back) But to say it was a win for Surfer is hilarious because it wasn't Surfer under his own power.

That would be like Saying when Doom killed the Fantastic Four with Surfer's power that it was a win for DOOM ONLY.. wait, no it wouldn't even be like that because Doom utterly destroyed his opponent, where Surfer didn't even make Thor bleed.

llagrok
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
You could. Surfer has gotten multiple upgrades since that fight (3), and he was depowered by the sonic shark previously. Either way though, Thor did not win.

The Surfer was amplified in that fight?

Wouldn't you agree that Thor has gotten stronger over the years though? He looked pretty strong in disassembled.

ultimatethor
Originally posted by llagrok
Prove it.

Um galctus actually considered them as threats. The big G would probably one shot odin

ultimatethor
Id say thor has a better chance as normal thor( evn though hed still lose) when he will at least try to fight smartly than if he is in warrior madness.All he seems to do in warrior madness is swing his hammer and use lightning. If surfer is not fighting like a fool , lightning and hammer throws wont get the job done against him. Current surfer( and evn classic surfer) has shown to be WAY more adept at enrgy manip, matter manip and so on than thor. He is also considerably faster and of recent has shown to be way more durable. He wins if he fights well

CPT Space Bomb
Originally posted by ultimatethor
Id say thor has a better chance as normal thor( evn though hed still lose) when he will at least try to fight smartly than if he is in warrior madness.All he seems to do in warrior madness is swing his hammer and use lightning. If surfer is not fighting like a fool , lightning and hammer throws wont get the job done against him. Current surfer( and evn classic surfer) has shown to be WAY more adept at enrgy manip, matter manip and so on than thor. He is also considerably faster and of recent has shown to be way more durable. He wins if he fights well Um, the thing is WM Thor owned Surfer in a Real fight.

ultimatethor
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Um, the thing is WM Thor owned Surfer in a Real fight.

Yes i have that fight and dont deny it but the thing is i do not think SS was fighting to the best of his ability or evn close to it. Not to mention that was b4 annihalation where it seems he got a significant powerup.

CPT Space Bomb
Originally posted by ultimatethor
Yes i have that fight and dont deny it but the thing is i do not think SS was fighting to the best of his ability or evn close to it. Not to mention that was b4 annihalation where it seems he got a significant powerup. Neither of them were fighting to their best abilities. Thor had the WM and wasn't thinking too clearly. Yet he still beat Surfer.

As for Surfer's power up? Yes, he *technically* received a power up because Galactus removed his remorse. Yet as far as I know, his only power up feat is Surviving on the fringe of the "Crunch". Don't get me wrong, that is still very impressive. Yet it's not enough to say that he has been significantly upgraded. We'll need to see more of Surfer actually using his powers and defeating people before we can say he's been power-ed up.


In my opinion, Classic Thor and Current Surfer are around even. And in my opinion, Surfer needs a legitimate win over Thor (without being amped by someone else's power) before I can in good conscious give him a win.

llagrok
Originally posted by ultimatethor
Um galctus actually considered them as threats. The big G would probably one shot odin

I asked for PROOF, not speculation.

Mr. Slippyfist
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Which is why he wins the easy majority. OK. Either way, he doesn't have the Odin Power here.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
where did it say it lasted until then? And even if it did, He still admitted that Mjolnir alone > his power cosmic. Because he was still depowered in comics after the Thor fight I believe.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Prove this statement. All of Surfer's best feats come from after his volume one.
When he traveled 500 thousand light years in seemingly seconds. When he searched the entire Earth in seemingly less time than it took for a sentence.
When he was blitzing other heralds.

Etc.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
If you are settling to saying that Surfer "beat" Thor in that fight, you are stooping to pretty embarrasing lows. Surfer was AMPED with Loki's power! The fact he didn't just obliterate Thor is laughable and sad. Which is why I say he jobbed. In my opinion, he would have wiped the floor with Thor from the beginning if he wasn't jobbing. The problem with this is that you lied in your first post.
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
They have fought 3 times in comics, and Thor has won every time. Surfer even admitted that with Loki's power combined with his own, he still couldn't beat Thor. And that was normal Thor.


You brought it up... I didn't.

You said Thor won. Thor didn't win. The details don't matter at all of that battle if you want to get technical. All that matters is that Surfer won, which you previously said he didn't.

You also made it seem like Thor was so above Surfer that even with an amp, he goes down to Thor.

Plus, how is it even relevant when you think Surfer was jobbing? You just contradicted your own proof.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Thor was never visibly hurt. When he got up and destroyed Surfer's barrier around Mjolnir, he was visibly fine. And that barrier Surfer said Thor couldn't break it, which he did.

The most I'll say is it wasn't a win for Thor (because he was holding back) But to say it was a win for Surfer is hilarious because it wasn't Surfer under his own power.

That would be like Saying when Doom killed the Fantastic Four with Surfer's power that it was a win for DOOM ONLY.. wait, no it wouldn't even be like that because Doom utterly destroyed his opponent, where Surfer didn't even make Thor bleed. He got up after Surfer let up his attack. Obviously he was hurt, or else he wouldn't have dropped. If Surfer wouldn't have let up his attack, he would have been out.

You took it into consideration when you said Thor won. And he didn't.

OK, sure. Either way, does 3 powerups and getting his power back account for Loki's amp? Make up your own mind.

Also, how many battles do you see when Surfer makes someone bleed?
And how many battles do you see when Thor is sprawled out crawling to his hammer?

llagrok
Branlicious.

Mr. Slippyfist
Originally posted by llagrok
The Surfer was amplified in that fight?

Wouldn't you agree that Thor has gotten stronger over the years though? He looked pretty strong in disassembled. I realize that. Everyone realizes that.
What I'm saying, is things that people don't even take into consideration.

Has he?

You're talking specifically about when he took out Durok, aren't you?
And either way, he made it seem like he's always been able to do that... it's just that he relies on his hammer too much. It's just that he got more showtime with his real powers. It highlighted his skills, and showed what his Godly essence can do without Mjolnir.

llagrok
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
I realize that. Everyone realizes that.
What I'm saying, is things that people don't even take into consideration.

Has he?

You're talking specifically about when he took out Durok, aren't you?
And either way, he made it seem like he's always been able to do that... it's just that he relies on his hammer too much.

Yeah, and his fight with Loki/Fenris.

But killing Durok and clearing most of the battlefield with a single attack is pretty impressive though, especially when he's not using his hammer. But you're right, I can't really call it a power-up.

The Great Galen
Hmm I still believe a well written SS could beast Thor, hell he should be able to beast Thanos.

Mr. Slippyfist
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Hmm I still believe a well written SS could beast Thor, hell he should be able to beast Thanos. What does 'beast' mean?

CPT Space Bomb
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
OK. Either way, he doesn't have the Odin Power here.

Because he was still depowered in comics after the Thor fight I believe.

All of Surfer's best feats come from after his volume one.
When he traveled 500 thousand light years in seemingly seconds. When he searched the entire Earth in seemingly less time than it took for a sentence.
When he was blitzing other heralds.

Etc.

The problem with this is that you lied in your first post.


You brought it up... I didn't.

You said Thor won. Thor didn't win. The details don't matter at all of that battle if you want to get technical. All that matters is that Surfer won, which you previously said he didn't.

You also made it seem like Thor was so above Surfer that even with an amp, he goes down to Thor.

Plus, how is it even relevant when you think Surfer was jobbing? You just contradicted your own proof.

He got up after Surfer let up his attack. Obviously he was hurt, or else he wouldn't have dropped. If Surfer wouldn't have let up his attack, he would have been out.

You took it into consideration when you said Thor won. And he didn't.

OK, sure. Either way, does 3 powerups and getting his power back account for Loki's amp? Make up your own mind.

Also, how many battles do you see when Surfer makes someone bleed?
And how many battles do you see when Thor is sprawled out crawling to his hammer? Of all of this, I take offense to saying I lied. I DID NOT LIE. In my opinion, Thor won. WHY, because he was holding back because he knew Surfer was being manipulated. He wasn't fighting. And SUrfer admitted he was holding back and also admitted that his power cosmic was weaker than Mjolnir. That to me is a win. It doesn't matter that Thor got knocked down for a second. If he had fought back and used his powers, SUrfer would have been knocked down as well. Especially based on the fact he admitted he was weaker. But yes, Fighting wise Thor didn't technically win, but Surfer looked pretty darn aweful. Amped with Loki's power and he still struggled to do much to Thor. And at the point in question where he took Thor down, Loki was taking over Surfer (as he admitted another hand was guiding him). Any way you cut it, Surfer looked like a chump, as Thor wasn't fighting back. Sorry but you lose any cool points when you call me a liar.

Nihilist
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Hmm I still believe a well written SS could beast Thor, hell he should be able to beast Thanos.
lulz at galan trying to bait thanos fans.

llagrok
Originally posted by Nihilist
lulz at galan trying to bait thanos fans.

lulz at you bringing back your old Hunger sig big grin

Nihilist
Originally posted by llagrok
lulz at you bringing back your old Hunger sig big grin
you got me theredur

Mr. Slippyfist
So, if you didn't lie, you completely ignored the context of their fight. Which is plenty bad in itself. And the mere fact that you think Thor won... is bad enough (not to mention wrong). Even following this logic, how is it relevant when it was Thor laying on the ground at the end? Whether Thor was holding back, and even if it took Surfer tons of time to take down Thor, it still means he won.
It doesn't matter how bad Surfer looked. It doesn't matter if he admitted Mjolnir was more powerful (and please, if this means anything, then about a good majority of Thor's fights don't count). It doesn't matter if he was amped by Loki. Hell, it doesn't even matter if Thor wasn't fighting back.
What matters is that Surfer was victorious at the end.

You said Thor had won every time. You even brought up the fight to try and prove a point.
At this point in time, everything else but the outcome is completely irrelevant. And the outcome is simple. Thor did not win.

But, fact is:

Thor was fighting back.

Thor said he couldn't slay Surfer, and then crossed that out in the same panel.

Surfer said he was holding back. Surfer said he didn't use his strength against him. How is Thor going to use his strength against Surfer, when he can't even hit him with faster attacks?

Surfer had Thor pissed off in one page.

Surfer had no problems with Thor when he turned his attention to Thor. He basically took him out in one page.

It took Thor over a page to get up after Surfer's assault.

Yes Surfer was amped by Loki. Yes Thor broke through two shields. However, it wasn't the shields doing the damage.

CPT Space Bomb
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
So, if you didn't lie, you completely ignored the context of their fight. Which is plenty bad in itself. And the mere fact that you think Thor won... is bad enough (not to mention wrong). Even following this logic, how is it relevant when it was Thor laying on the ground at the end? Whether Thor was holding back, and even if it took Surfer tons of time to take down Thor, it still means he won.
It doesn't matter how bad Surfer looked. It doesn't matter if he admitted Mjolnir was more powerful (and please, if this means anything, then about a good majority of Thor's fights don't count). It doesn't matter if he was amped by Loki. Hell, it doesn't even matter if Thor wasn't fighting back.
What matters is that Surfer was victorious at the end.

You said Thor had won every time. You even brought up the fight to try and prove a point.
At this point in time, everything else but the outcome is completely irrelevant. And the outcome is simple. Thor did not win.

But, fact is:

Thor was fighting back.

Thor said he couldn't slay Surfer, and then crossed that out in the same panel.

Surfer said he was holding back. Surfer said he didn't use his strength against him. How is Thor going to use his strength against Surfer, when he can't even hit him with faster attacks?

Surfer had Thor pissed off in one page.

Surfer had no problems with Thor when he turned his attention to Thor. He basically took him out in one page.

It took Thor over a page to get up after Surfer's assault.

Yes Surfer was amped by Loki. Yes Thor broke through two shields. However, it wasn't the shields doing the damage.

The whole battle: Your links don't work for me, but it matters not. I see it differently than you. I call it a moral victory for Thor. Surfer was being played like a fool by Loki and Thor got him to admit he was weaker and that Thor was holding back. You aren't going to dissuade me from my opinion on this, so you might as well stop trying. And I'm obviously not changing your view. How about we just agree to disagree on this one. I dunno about you but I'm getting tired of it. cool

llagrok
This is high level straw-grasping.

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