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Who is Seraph?

This is my explanation.

The reason Seraph (the Chinese guy Neo meets before meeting the Oracle) had golden code and was so spectacular is that he came from the first incarnation of the matrix, which was heaven. "Seraph" is singular for the plural "seraphim". The seraphim are the highest choir of angels and included amongst others: Lucifer, Gabriele, Raziel and Malaciah, and they sit on the 8th level of Heaven just one below God. So Seraph will obviously have a big part in Revolutions, helping the freedom fighters.

any thoughts?

This has been discussed a few times, but you are right on the money. BUT it is important that you remember, this isn't the ONLY explanation to what Seraph is (just one of many).

Also, Lucifer is the Merovingian. Have a think why and how it can link in - you wont believe it if you put the pieces together (I have )

Nyuh... well... I knew that. So wasn't really a breakthrough, sozzle. Still, nice to see some people are still lookin' into these things!

~AI

Therte was something about seraph in that spoiler i've read the other day. if i remember correctly, they said that seraph wasn't the oracle's guardian, but the guardian of the future. of what matters most

I have also heard that. But the Oracle specifically say's:

"I'm interested in one thing, the Future, and I know the only way to get there is together"

Well if that is the only thing she is interested in, doesn't that make it her reason for being here. She is an intuitive program, She knows everthing from the beginning of the path to the end and She is referred to as the Oracle for being just that, an Oracle:

(from Dictionary.com)
A shrine consecrated to the worship and consultation of a prophetic deity, as that of Apollo at Delphi.

A person, such as a priestess, through whom a deity is held to respond when consulted.

The response given through such a medium, often in the form of an enigmatic statement or allegory.

So doesn't that make the Oracle "Future". Hrmmm

The rest I shouldn't have to explain, let your brains do some working and see what you can come up with

LucifeR??? emmm but he's not an angel :s

He WAS an angel. But he turned from God, choosing his own rebellious path.

Supposedly the most beautiful favorite angel of God.....

Indeed and what did he want? More Power

Keep baking those noodles...Keep going....

yeah but.. he was an angel..no he's the devil =p
because he want to has all the power of God.. be more
powerfull than God.. so.. .. God get angry and send him to the hell =) hahaha so he's not an angel

You're getting there

hahahaha..then.. dont put lucifer whit the angels
and everybody will be happy

I was in no way suggesting that the Merovingian was a beautiful angel....matter of fact, I think he's butt ugly!! Don't see what Persephone saw in the guy!!!!! Merely clarifying Lucifer USED to be God's most beautiful and favored angel...b4 he went 'bananas' I mean!!!!! http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/dev.gif

I love that dancing banana - hilarious

So would agent smith be the new Merovingian. The highest Agent of the machines who turned away?

What bothers me about christianity, well just one of the many, is that. I didn't think Angels, even the most high, were given free will, like man was after eating the forbidden fruit. Yet lucifer, "chose" to disobey God by trying to be more powerful than he. Now to me they contradict each other.

And we are taught that God is all powerful, and all good. Yet Satan needs permission from God to tempt man, so either God isn't all good, that he allows such temptation from Satan towards man, or he isn't all powerful, that he can stop Satan from tempting man...

Ugh, christanity. I'll take my Buddhism anyday.

There are more biblical, buddhist, and many other religious connections in the Matrix than you will ever know

However it is the Merovingian who is the Fallen Angel, Lucifer. Now this DOES make sense completely as he CHOSE to want more power, but in turn didn't particularly get what he wanted. So he himself was decieved by "choice" hence the "choice is just an illusion......".

There is more to this concerning the Merovingian/Lucifer/Hades etc. Who was Lucifer struck down by? I wonder hint hint

oooooooooo!!! hahahaha well.. I think you're right !

Wait you Said Seraph and Other angels are on Level 8 just below God.
SO

9-God
8-Angels-Seraph
7-?
6-Neo 6.0

This is how I see it:

9-God-The Oracle
8-Serpah-Angels The OTHER angels may appear in part 3
7-Now, Since Lucifer/Merovingian has been Struck down by God, would that make him More or Less powerfull than level 6??
6-Neo 6.0
5-The One
4-The One
3-The One
2-The One
1-The One

"Also, Lucifer is the Merovingian. Have a think why and how it can link in - you wont believe it if you put the pieces together (I have )"

Why Wont I believe it Sifer? Spill your knowledge.

Personally it seemed almost Blatant that The Oracle was being protected by Seraph, she "Mattered Most", therefore she is God.

So Im assuming she Struckdown Lucifer. Andwhat about the Holy Spirit is he in there too?

no, seraph protects the future, not the oracle. it is because the oracle is the one pushing the future along that seraph is with her.

this is my understanding of the lucifer story. perhaps we can unlock what sifer is giggling about:

lucifer was one of the highest angels in heaven (and yes, he had free will). he was sort of like heaven's prime minister of the angels. one day, an unrighteousness developed in lucifer, and he was cast out of heaven because of the 5 "I Will's" that he said to god --
(paraphrased)
1 -- i will rise over all of heaven
2 -- i will raise my throne higher than any other angel
3 -- my throne will be the center of the governing body of the universe
4 -- my glory will be more glorious than god's
5 -- i will become like god, if not better

god apparently did not strike lucifer down immediately -- he waited to see if lucifer would repent. otherwise, lucifer would have been thrown out after his first "i will." instead, god waited for him to finish, and cast him to earth. lucifer then became what we think of as "satan." he was absolutely corrupted and became bitter and evil. he created his own throne in hell. with him, he convinced an entire third of heaven's angels to go with him and help create his kingdom. the angels apparently had mistakenly thought that lucifer (their "prime minister" was the one that gave them power -- and thus, they would continue to be as powerful in hell. they did not realize that they got their power from god -- through lucifer, but by god. they too became bitter and evil. when it was all said and down, god mourned over lucifer's choice. even though he became satan, god still referred to him as "lucifer," his light-bearer, and brightest of his stars.

so . . . sifer, isn't it god that struck lucifer down? or maybe you're hinting at michael, the angel that stuck by god? either way, who do you think represents those characters in the movies?

i can see several similarities between lucifer and the merovingian. namely, that the merovingian is an outcast and seats his throne in a type of hell -- the matrix (we know how agent smith felt of the matrix, so i imagine many other AI's shared that sentiment). he obviously has a thirst for power. lucifer was called the God of Self Love, and the merovingian certainly appears to be quite vain and full of himself.

but i'm interested again, sifer, by who you are referring to when you say, "Who was Lucifer struck down by?" -- if you mean god, i would suppose that the architect plays that role in the movie, and so the merovingian was thrown out by the architect. hmm. or, if you mean michael, maybe that's the oracle? the oracle and seraph, side by side, representing angels? unless the oracle is god, and the architect isn't . . .

*massive head scratch*

by the way, flipmode, good thinking on the order of the characters . . . i never would have thought of that.

help me out here, sifer. am i scratching the surface?

Michael.....

michael? ok, this is what i researched on michael:

"Michael is our sword and our shield against evil. He is heaven's defender. Michael was thought to be the angel that handed down the ten commandments. Prince of Light is one of his names and he was often called upon at the hour of death. He appears when we or the world are really in need. He is often referred to as the Prince of the Angels.

In the bible he is said to have been a friend of Lucifer before the fall of the Angels but became the Christian war cry against the Christian enemies, including Satan. Michael is said to be able to rescue our souls when most in need, particularly at the time of death. Though he is also the Angel of Judgement of humankind's souls.

Micahel's name is mentioned in the Bible four times, but he is a very important Archangel in Christian tradition. Michael was the patron of the church and was taken up as patron by many of the military orders that formed around the Crusades. He was Mikha`el in Hebrew, Mika`il or Mikha`il in Arabic, and his name means Who Is Like God.

Michael is said to be the Angel who appeared to Moses as the fire in the burning bush and to have handed him the ten commandments. In the book of Revelation it is Michael who leads his heavenly armies against the Dragon (Revelation 12:7). In the Catholic Epistle of St. Jude Michael is said to have disputed with Satan over the body of Moses. He is the patron Angel of Israel.

In his many depictions during the history of art he is usually pictured in armor, carrying a lance or sword, often with his foot on the neck of a dragon. He may sometimes carry the scales of justice.

Saint Michael the Archangel, as leader of the heavenly army, was viewed as the patron of every Christian knight. Men went to Michael for protection in battle. Medieval women feared losing their lives during childbirth and for protection in birth, they, too, went to visit the shrines of Michael."

i still don't know who that's supposed to be. neo? or are we sticking strictly with the machine world?

My friend, my fine feathered friend, you're missing the KEY concept in all this. Remember what Neo said "The problem is choice". While I'm using it way out of context, what I'm saying is God created choice. He didn't necessarily create evil, but rather allowed it to exist. Our (humans) main choice in life is to choose God over evil. That's why God allowed Satan to tempt man. I don't know what that has to do with the matrix, but I just wanted to clear that up. However whether we truly do have choice, you determine that for yourself. It's your choice to believe or not.

It's all good with the information my friend, but try not to just link what is said about Michael to the person in the film. Have you watched the Animatrix?

If so, watch it again.

I will add one other thing - what you said about Mero being cast down by God - Well, that is also correct. But as to Michael...keep going

Oh and I don't know if this helps any Nick, but lucifer was struck down by Michael under orders, if you will, from God. But as for seraph, if his role is that of a "protector", then there has to be more of his kind out there.

i have watched the animatrix . . .

obviously not closely enough.

*sigh* i'll be back later . . .

mmm animatrix?.. I have watch that "movie" too..
but I dont understand a lot ot things!
I dont like animatrix

michael...animatrix...michael is the kids name...michael trotter or something like that i'm sure of it.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!
hahah thanks!!!

hahaha .. hey I got a pic of seraph...

is it just me, or is that the hobo-looking train station guy from the preview and etm standing on the right with his back turned to us?

but anyway . . . so you're saying that michael, the little twerp with an acknowledged "larger role" in the finale, was the "person" who struck the merovingian down from the--what--mainframe? so michael isn't human, then? he's more like seraph? or is he an enemy?

but if seraph is an outcast too . . . how's that all fit in?

dude . . . this is a noggin' cooker. are you sure about all this? or is it just a theory? i mean, if it's just a theory, i'll respect that and give you props for really using your head -- but do you have some kind of palpable evidence for any of this?

mmm.. the guy that is in the right? with long hair???

i wrote the same in an old seraph-thread. i think youre right. he seems to be very strong, nearly as good as neo.

and he rrrrooooccckkkssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and he helps morpheus and trinity in revolutions. even if destroying he system means his own dead.

It's not about the path that lies behind him, it's about the path that lies before him.

So what does Michael the angel do in the future?

Errr we already know what Michael did - thats the point

Ok now you lost me.

..what is seraph?
look at his code in the tea house, look at neos code when hes restarting trinitys heart

Here is another noggin cooker, how do you know that Seraph is an outcast? This is just another possibility but yes Seraph says he protects which matters most, the future. The future of what? The resistance or the Matrix? If he is "Michael" then would'nt he be a servant or Angel of God (The Architect). Do you see what Im getting at?

Mind, Reason, Power, Truth, and Life

Well no not really, it means he might be another minion of the Matrix. If I recall correctly Neo questions Seraph's loyalty to the Resistance and Seraph only responds in some wise crack riddel. Like I said before its only a possibility.

Just to clarify a few things. Some of you seem to be forgetting a VERY important line in Reloaded.

"The programs doing what they are supposed to be doing, are invisible, you would never even know they where here. But the others...well you hear about them all the time."

Another thing - Seraph is Seraph - NOT Michael.

I am gonna be posting an interesting theory I came up with a couple of weeks ago, about the Merovingian, but have only just been able to think of a way to explain it in something that would be understandable. Keep a look out for it.

I hope Seraph doesn't die caus he's cool, he's my second favourate character

I really like seraph's costume, does anyone know where I can order it or if there is a really good close up picture of him so I can see in detail what he is wearing? Thanks

Oh, it makes sense that the little kid the "thinks" Neo saved him is Michael, and is older than thought to be. For those of you who have read the "revolutions Predictions" forum, i will just paraphase, but i believe that Zion is another program, like the Matrix, in order to control humans. If the kid is Michael, then he would also sort of watch over the One, would he not? Help him along? Think back to the scene where Bane/Smith cuts himself with the knife, and then goes to stab Neo. Suddenly, Michael calls out to Neo, then says "Just in time" and gives Neo a spoon. I believe that the spoon is a reference to M1, but means that there is no spoon in Zion, either. michael stops Bane from harming Neo, because everything has a purpose, a destiny.

Also, back to the Merovingian. his wife is named Persephone, and in Greek mythology, Persephone is the wife of Hades. Also, it makes a plausible argument that, if the Mero. lives in the Matrix, it is hell; as the "freed" minds live in "Zion", so named to make its inhabitants believe it is "heaven", suffer for leaving the Matrix, it is purgatory; and there is a truely free world for those that reject the others, or maybe it is another program, made to be "Heaven".

Just a suggestion...

I was thinking just the same thing about the kid I'm fairly sure his name is Michael. It said somewhere but I can't remember where.

It's Michael Trotter if you must know

it was in the Animatrix, or on some other forums here

Michael Karl Popper actually

he died in the matrix, he didnt take a pill so how did he get out?
trinty "his vitals are good. hes gonna make it. its unbelieveable. i didnt know self-substantiation was possible"
neo "apparently it is"
kid "neo"
neo "its okay. your safe now"
kid "i knew... youd save me"
neo "i didnt save you, kid. you saved yourself"

i just thought of something. In most christian religons, it says that we were created with god and lived in heaven with him. then we came to earth as a test, then when we die and if we're worthy we'll return to him. Now I know it doesnt make perfect sense, and I'm fairly tired, but ponder this. The architech created the first matrix, where everyone was happy. This to me makes me think of Heaven. Then, if he created it, he must be God... so then what if being freed was the test, and eventually you return to him, or something of the such. I'm not sure exactly how to get at what i'm tryin to, but think about it, and maybe post what comes to mind when u read this. I'm interested to see how you all think of it.

After watching the trailer i noticed something, seraph is probabs going to die, which is unfair as i thought he was cool. In the trailer, when trinity turns and puts the gun to the merovidians head in the background you can sort of see seraph fall.

Popper it is - I was rather stoned when I typed it

I have a question. If all of these people are supposed to relate who are "The Twins?"juggernaut.jpg

(woo cool a post from my old account)

you used to be ghastly_twin, Burly? How many people you been? that makes three i know of...

yawn.. i should be asleep.. no i was just theprophecy123
i said post not thread

"Bite your tongue! Bite it!"

Aaaah, I don't know... I'm tired and bored...

Lucifer was given his name because the morning star was the first one in the morning and that made them think of him as a fallen angel, the first star to fall from the heavens.

Eh, Neo could be the new Jesus. :P Wouldn't an angel protect either god or the people? So why is he protecting the Oracle? *shrug*

The twins are Cain and Abel.. lol.. They're just programs from a less old but still old Matrix.. That, or just unruly programs from the current incarnation, like the lycanthropic bodyguards.

or from the FIRST matrix, the perfect one, although, if we were to go by names, they would be from right after the first matrix...and the twins aren't Cain and Abel, the two vampires watching the movie in the library are Cain and Abel...the twins are called THE TWINS...

Yeah, Cain and Abel are the two vampires. Plus, in religion, they aren't twins. (or are they? I thought they weren't)

really loving all the theories on this board - seraph truely rocks, and things seem clearer visa vie the whole "protect what matters most" subject.
with regard to Merovingian being lucifer, i can see the parallels - every1 shud read a book called "i, lucifer" by glenn duncan - its fiction, but a work of genius!! very funny, and makes u think alot about the circumstances surrounding the fall - u almost end up on lucifers side...

And since we're all so keen on looking up the meaning of names....

Merovingian was a French king in the 5th dynasty.

that is ONE of the meanings of Merovingian, but there are others, as have been discussed before

Speaking of Merv. wasn't it implied that Seraph worked for him. in Revolutions. There was the gaurd that recognized him and Merv. said something to the extent of a "prodicule son" and "Judas without wings." So how did Seraph end up with the Oracle then?

I heard something about a game with Seraph ...

Anyone knows something about this ??

as for the prodigal son, i think he is refering to the fact that most of the programs, if not all, work for Mero now, but Seraph decided to guard the Oracle rather than allow himself to be corrupted like the mero, etc have. And as for Judas, Mero would call him this because he is helping the humans, rather than the machines, like he "should be" doing...and the wingless one means he is a seraphim, but on "earth", so to speak...

yeah, t'was i that spread those rumours

So why is Seraph's code gold and firey? I wish the W bros would tell us already.

Actually. We MAY yet get more info on Seraph.

From http://www.dailyhaggis.com/archives/games/000487.html

"Silver added that there is talk about doing another video game, beyond the current hit Enter the Matrix. "There's a moment in , when Seraph comes in with Neo and Trinity and Morpheus, and the Merovingian says to him, 'Oh, the prodigal son returns.' And the boys wanted to kind of explore that backstory."

Actually, Cain and Abel are werewolves to whomever said they are vampires

Yes. Silverbullets are the usual werewolf killer.

I know Smith has a cult following, but the way Seraph fought Neo, I'm a Seraph fan!

If Neo just doesnt use his powers with Seraph, then I would consider them equals in strength...

The bit in enter the matrix where seraph says hes indebted to the orcale, his golden code and the fact that he said hed beaten smith before got me thinking ... Seraph is derived from Serapihm, the highest council of angels and (if i remeber right) the angels of death, wreaking gods vengence with fire and brimstone and wotnot. some of the angles of deaths decided to rebel and not carry out the smiting as they thought this was wrong, thus they were banished by god for not following his actions.

So... maybe seraph was a matrix angel of death, the 'original agent' that somehow repented and decided not to go after rouge programs, anomolies etc anymore and the orcale was key in his becoming sentient and becoming a rouge program himself.

Seraph protects that which matters most. What matters most according to Morpheus, is that "we are still here". He ensures that the equation is unbalanced, this is why he protects the Oracle.

Hmmmmmmmmm, interesting thought, he did have said that he's beaten Smith once, but when or how we do not know.

Hey, come to think of it, if Neo is to the Christ, n Smithy is to Satan, than haven't Satan himself used to be an angel?!

Blimmy.......

Hmmmm, maybe Seraph was an angel of death, or maybe he used to work for Merv...

Hmmmmm, let's follow the leads.

If Seraph used to work for Merv, together against the agents, hence the Matrix, then Merv, as other have said, might used to be one of The Ones.

Hmmmmmmm...........

IT has been said the merv = lucifer, ok got that.

Either the oracle or the archi is god, i think its arch, ok i got that too.

Now people keep saying that Seraph is Micheal, God's right hand man pretty much and th person who cast down Lucifer (merv). Hence the quote "the prodigal son returns".

If I am going to stick with my guns about saying that god is archi, then Seraph can't be Michael because I never recall Micheal being cast out in anyway.

But what if Seraph isn't Micheal he is in fact Gabriel. Gabriel was one of the 2 highly ranked angels, and yes he was cast out for a period of time by God he fell from grace for not obeing a direct order.

Gabriel was also a so called angel of death he is the Archangel of annunciation, humanity, resurrection, heavenly mercy, vengeance, death, revelation, truth, and hope. all of which fit perfectly to Seraph.

You can also use the reference that if seraph is not only an angel of death but of destruction aswell, not necessarily a bad angel, then if we use this with jewish teachings theses angels serve two functions, the first is to descend to the earth and inflict terrible suffering upon those among the living who are wicked and in need of punishment. The second is to inflict even worse punishment upon damned souls in hell. The wicked here would be Smith and hence there previous fights, also since they are to inflict even worse punishment to those who are already condemmned to hell then this would tell us why merv/lucifer hates him so much.


I will have more to add to later, but if any would like to have a stab at this theory right or wrong please feel free to do. I am still only a newcomer.

Good thoery, and it is very probable, but don't forget that not EVERYTHING has to agree exactly with the biblical partner. If Seraph is Gabriel or Michael, who the heck is the Oracle? See...? But great theory nonetheless.

Seraphs my favorite character out of all 3 movies. I remember smith talking about him chasing seraph in REV. but when did Seraph or Smith talk about fighting each other? I don't remember but like most things probably just sliped my mind.

Seraph just said "I've beaten you before"

i liked your theory BadgerBadger http://66.98.199.1/forums/images/moresmilies/thumbup.gif

therefore, i think that seraph was the first agent, the most important, and after some event, he decided to become a defense program.

Seraph protects that which matters most: the future of the one

http://66.98.199.1/forums/images/moresmilies/starwars.gif
Yah... yah... huh... yah... hup...
I must apologize for this...

In Jewish texts there is another archangel Metatron, Metatron is only know by many other names, 72 actually so if some of this sounds like another angel, I doubt it is.

Talking about Seraph as having the golden code when Neo first sees him,
"Metatron is charged with the sustenance of mankind. He has been known as the link between the human and the divine. The angel who wrestled with Jacob" (Genesis 32)
Everywhere I have found is that Gabriel/Metatron is the one who wrestled w/ Jacob, can some please inform me on who Jacob was exactly.
Metatron resdies in the 7th Heaven and when evoked appears as a pillar of fire said to be more dazzling than the sun.
Since Metatron is not exactly Gabriel many have said that he was more powerful/mightier than Micheal and Gabriel.
Metatron was also said to be the teacher of children who have died prematurely hence why Seraph is with the Oracle, all the children that had "died" (been taken out of the matrix) the Oracle is the only person we really see with these kids, and since Seraph is there to protect which matters most which seems to be the future that only the Oracle can predict. Then Seraph is also around the children as often as the Oracle.


Sorry if I blurred texts together in this.
Punctuation isn't my strong point, kinda long sentences.

wow your right. Seraph protects the future "of the children" and the matrix it self because all the children that the Oracle takes care of seem to have special powers and purposes. If you think about it neo trinity morpheus are children of the oracle too. I completly agree with you criminaltwin. Also The Metatron is in dogma.

I don't really beleive I am right xemir, although I would like to think that my theory is quite plausable.

I would actually like someone to prove it wrong, so at least I know where I stand.

I think your right.

in M3 when Seraph is walking towards the warewoofs/Vamps, one of them say 'oh look, its wingless. So they must know Seraph is some kind of angel and they must have seen him b4

i assumed they had seen him before because you have to remeber that we see the story thru the humans PoV. the programs have a lot of backstroy that we don't really know abt

Backed up by the Smith/Seraph Revs conversation much?

AI.

I kind of thought that maybe since they knew Seraph, that he was once one of them, then went good

because we don't really know much about him

yeah I guess...and he's so cool to have the fighting techniques and still have time to take care of the oracle's "children"

When the warewolves see Seraph coming and say "oh look, wingless" they could be refering to the time before the modern matrix. 1.0 where humans lived in heaven. At which point Seraph (hence the name) was perhaps an angel.

Not so hard to get your head around when you think that heaven is inhabited by the dead and the divine.

great thread!

"The seraphim are the highest choir of angels and included amongst others: Lucifer, Gabriele, Raziel and Malaciah"

who else was in this order (names+how many?)
Which matrix charcter represents them or does the charcter of Seraph represent the highest angels as a whole?

some definitions form dictionary.com:
Seraph:A celestial being having three pairs of wings.
Seraphim:The first of the nine orders of angels in medieval angelology.
Lucifer:The archangel cast from heaven for leading the revolt of the angels; Satan
Gabriel:An angel who explained signs from God and announced the conception, birth, and mission of Jesus to Mary.

awesome thread, this is what i get from it:

matrix 1.0-archie writes first program of the matrix. while doing so he writes various programs to control certain functions needed to maintain the matrix. his favorite was most likely the program used for transfering and storing information (merv). there were not as many programs at this time as in later versions but there were important ones such as protection, analysis, and control programs. i imagine that saraph at that time worked for (protected what mattered most) the information systems. at this time there was no oricle although the program was researching aspects of the human psyce. since the program of information knew all that was in the matrix (past and present) he became aware of choice and control. Being aware he believed that he could become more powerful than the Archie so he introduced the first malfunction into the matrix in an attempt to prove he had choice and power. The archie obviously wouldnt be happy with this so he took away the mervs additional abilities (hence he was once good and all like neo). as long as there was an information program this could not be averted by the archie it was simply a matter of time. eventually an anomally occured (the one) due to the sum of all the malfunctions adding up. (this process could have taken as long as needed since the only time line of 200 years or so known of was between the 5th and 6th anomally) the one appears and returns to the source with the code carried after infecting the system with its virus. (the anomally is the virus and the one (personified form) is the balance to the virus that negates it) i also think that merv became aware of the anomally before the architect did and tryed to use him against the archie but failed when saraph turned on him and pursueded the one to work with the archie.

matrix 2.0- archie rewrites matrix with code of the one and more graphic history of violence in attempt to avoid the annomally. during this time saraph has no-one to protect but is very powerful thus being the reason the agents tryed to kill him because he had no purpose. annomally appears again and archie turns to research programs for guidence and thus the oricle is redefined as mother of the matrix. with the one's choosing 23 others to rebuild zion the time between anomallys is sped up because of malfunctions created during hacking into the system and the ones abilities.

matrix 3.0- written with help of the oricle and the code of the one. oricle observes what it means to be human and begins to take a side saraph seeing a new purpose protects her and what she is working towards. oricle observes what happens in the cycle between anomallies and becomes aware of what will happen in future matrixes. the one amerges and the oricle guides it along the path towards the source making the process easier.

matrix 4.0- similar to 3.0 but more and more controlled as far as the anomally is concerned. oricle grows more and more towards the side of the humans.

matrix 5.0- same as 4.0 but the oricle again grows more towards the side of the humans and wants piece between man and machine.

matrix 6.0- instead of following the same path as before the oricle insists to trinity she will fall in love with a dead man (neo). this happens and instead of choosing the same door as before neo chooses trinity and that leads us to now.

some details may be involved but im done typing for now so input is always apreciated. im not sure how the kid ties in though, maybe in an earlier version he was one of the 7 males or something i dont know.

sorry for the double post but to support that the oricle didnt actually see the future but rather experienced it from before was revieled when the cookies werent done by the time that neo came back from moble ave. what she told neo was a bunch of bullwhooy that she thought would happen so that neo would believe her and know that he was the balancing of the equation when smith referred to him as neo instead of mr. anderson. so i guess i dont know whether she could see the future or simply had experienced it all before.

Seraph has gold code, I don't think the matrix assigned that to him because he was "an angel" like other's were werewolves and vampires. I'm sure they all had green code just like everyone else except seraph.

not sure if your post was in reply to mine or a general post but i realise there are no angels,vamps etc.

my question is 'who else was in this order in the bible?' (names+how many?) and
'Which matrix character represents them' or 'does the charcter of Seraph represent the highest angels as a whole?'

in the same way people say Merv represents Lucifer

The Merovingian represents Hades, not Lucifer. Smith would be Lucifer, the anti-Christ.

yep ur right - hades god of the underworld.

but can anyone answer this:
"Seraph" is singular for the plural "seraphim". The seraphim are the highest choir of angels and included amongst others: Lucifer, Gabriele, Raziel and Malaciah, and they sit on the 8th level of Heaven just one below God.

so
my question is 'who else was in this order in the bible?' (names+how many?) and
'Which matrix character represents them' or 'does the charcter of Seraph represent the highest angels as a whole?'

Lucifer is not just the anti-christ. He is referred to as God of the Underworld, keeper of the dead (In oh...that's right, Hell ). He is both representative of Lucifer AND Hades among MANY other things.

Also, I have said this before in another, older thread: According to the Post Production notes of Reloaded, it states that Seraph's name is strictly true in it's meaningful sense. It then say's, a Seraphim is much higher in the levels of heaven than a Power, but the Oracle is a power and Seraph would be the Principality (an order in the level of heaven) protecting the Power.

But from what they say, I would definately assume that the name, Seraph is used for his appearance in the Matrix code (Seraphim were said to have the appearance of a fiery golden glow). One thing we do know is that he is a force to be reckoned with

I think it would also be good to point out again that Lucifer was also a fallen Angel who was cast down because he wanted 'more power'. Coincidence? Who knows

Smith could also be Lucifer. He was an "angel of light" (agent of the system) and revolted against God (starting taking over the Matrix). He was then cast down with the other "fallen angels" into Hell (he and the other Smiths were destroyed).

I know, it keeps getting deeper doesn't it ?

I think that the Merovingian just represents Hades, because all the signs that I've seen point to just that (keys, exiles, persephone, etc.)

If Smith is Lucifer, then Neo could be Michael (and/or God) in the sense that he broke Smith out of the Matrix, and cast him down (took purpose from Smith) when he destroyed him.

I can't think straight right now, but I seem to remember Merv sounding like he really hated a particular person. Anyone know who I'm talking about? They might be God in a sense. Trinity, maybe? Neo? I dunno.

Probably the Oracle, but I don't remember...

Michael - That is the kid's name, just so you know

And it was deduced long ago that Character names have multiple meanings in the Matrix. He isn't SPECIFICALLY any of them, just in general. Even the Oracle said it herself:

"What do all men with power want? More power."

Why was Lucifer cast down from heaven? Because he wanted more power. There is more links than you could possibly imagine.

Hi guys im new here and got tired of just browsing around and decided to have my say in this Seraph disscution.......i believe that Seraphis the One .4 (assuming Neo is the 5) i don't know if this is being discussed in other forums but the reasons i believe this are simple...
1.He fights exactly like Neo (Reloaded)
2.Everyone in Merov's hell recognizes him
3.He tells Smith that he already beat him once
The reason i say this is because i think that everything we saw in this istallment of the matrix already happened (therefore he had already gone to see the Merov to "collect" the keymaker and that is why everyone recognizes him
The reason the Matrix only gets Reloaded is because everyone beats Smith at the end beacuse they are told that that's what needs to be done........that is except Neo who CHOSSES not to beat Smith instead he lets himselg be beaten, ergo SMith dies and the Matrix is finally beaten instead of being reloaded and beginning the cycle again
I believe the Oracle always chosses the formers ONE to be her guardian, hence Merov's hatred for her (she changed him for Seraph) i don't know probably just bs that in talking here because it sure made a whole lot more sense before i started writing........

Seraph is just a powerful program the protects the Oracle. Everyone recognized him because he probably used to work for the Merovingian. If he was a "One" then he would have flown away with Sati instead of just hiding. And the Merovingian is a program. And the thing with Smith has nothing to do with reloading the Matrix (this is the first time it's happened)...

Hi does anyone have a good picture of Seraph pleeeease?

All I got.

Thank-you! Mwah!!!!!!!! Seraph is lurvely

Dont the various levels of heaven/hell belong in islam?

Also if Neo was different to the other "ones" then there should be no need for the oracles answer to the architects question:

Architect: just how long do you think this peace is going to last?
Oracle: As long as it can

That sounds like a degree of uncertainty to me, as though it isnt going to last long. The oracle should know exactly how long it will last and would have mentioned if the peace will be long term. So i believe ultimately Neo didnt achieve much because he hasnt broken the cycle of war/peace between man and machine. It is yet another system of control. Another way of making humans think theyve won when really the machines knew all along.

Or something like that.

Originally posted by Ghastly_Twin
Who is Seraph?

This is my explanation.

The reason Seraph (the Chinese guy Neo meets before meeting the Oracle) had golden code and was so spectacular is that he came from the first incarnation of the matrix, which was heaven. "Seraph" is singular for the plural "seraphim". The seraphim are the highest choir of angels and included amongst others: Lucifer, Gabriele, Raziel and Malaciah, and they sit on the 8th level of Heaven just one below God. So Seraph will obviously have a big part in Revolutions, helping the freedom fighters.

Sorry. this is what Im quoting from in regards to what I wrote above.

Seraph was the shit.

Damn right. Weird glasses though.

seraph should had had a biger role and more story invloved. id rather have more time spent on him then the wasted time on trinitys death JUST DIE ALREADY!

The twins were the shit, too.

Ohhhh Dissssss.

i had always thot seraph worked for merv first...but why would he change his mind and help the oracle? and why wasn't he in the first one?

Whoa; talk about digging up an old thread.

Saw the email notification for this and I was like

But yah; Seraph pwns j00 f00lz!!!11

Originally posted by FallenForever
i had always thot seraph worked for merv first...but why would he change his mind and help the oracle? and why wasn't he in the first one?

he probably had a meeting with the oracle. she said something seraph wanted to hear and he defected.

so...seraph's just a "defected program"?

"defected" does not mean defective, if that's what you're thinking. he just switched sides.

When the dude says "holy shit, its wingless". My first reaction to that was it was some kind of nickname. now that I've pondered it for a while, the guy is actually surprised that seriph has no wings. that would conclude that he was an angel. how did he loose them?

Seraph is the coolest character in Matrix imo
I barely recognised Colin Chou in Fearless, Jet Li's last martial arts epic. Jet Li actually declined role of Seraph or agents I heard