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Who will win?

If Darth Maul came close I'm sure Revan could defeat the duel.

Maul may have the advantage of saber skills over Revan but definitely not in the force department.

I just saw that this is ROTS Obi Wan. Same conclusion.

Which Revan is this?

Revan obliterates the duo.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Revan obliterates the duo.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Revan rapes the duo.

If they get close enough for sabers then Revan is screwed. If not, well, Revan > Team.

How do you know that they're superior to Revan in sabers? Or is that just an assumption?

Originally posted by Enyalus
If they get close enough for sabers then Revan is screwed. If not, well, Revan > Team.

The duo are well outmatched in the force and sabers. I would prolly put Revan at his full power in line with NJO Luke though thats just my opinion. Either way, Revans feats are far more inpressive than anything that Obi wan and Qui gon have done so thats why Revan is the most reasonable choice here.

r u frickin kiding? njo luke is the source of all teh roxorz notin can beat fanboyism. Hes in a league above DE sideous...

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
How do you know that they're superior to Revan in sabers? Or is that just an assumption?

Qui-Gon was Dooku's best apprentice and one of the most skilled duelists of his Order. ROTS Obi-Wan Soresu was top-notch. And Revan's saber skills are unknown. Thus, team gets the nod based on what we know and feats performed.

ya but isn't revan's skills always assumed to be average? along with his force? everyone assumes revan's power and specialism. But enough, we know that revan is the pwnzrz and takes them out, just cause they are annoying. And revan has a wai cooler outfit then both of them put together.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
ya but isn't revan's skills always assumed to be average? along with his force? everyone assumes revan's power and specialism. But enough, we know that revan is the pwnzrz and takes them out, just cause they are annoying. And revan has a wai cooler outfit then both of them put together.

Thank you for your informed and enlightening opinion.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
I would prolly put Revan at his full power in line with NJO Luke though thats just my opinion.

You'd be wrong. And that's not just my opinion. If we're to take Darth Malak at his from his observation that Revan, at the end of KotOR, as a Jedi, was more powerful than as his tenure as a Dark Lord of the Sith, he is inferior to Yoda, whom the omniscient narrator of Revenge of the Sith declares "the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known."

I must be the only person in the world who hates Revan's outfit. The only uber coolz outfit of the KotOR timeline is Nihilus'.

And the team will win the saber fight. I can also see them taking an all-out fight, actually; who is to say that Revan's lightning, say, will break through Obi-Wan's defenses, considering that Dooku's (who is an extraordinary force user) lightning could not budge Obi-Wan when Obi-Wan was far, far weaker than he is now? Well, I suppose that Revan can defeat him in a force fight, overall. But in an all-out fight? I suppose he can destroy Qui-Gon with the force and proceed to do the same to Obi-Wan.

But, I see Revan managing to kill Qui-Gon with the force and being forced to engaged in a saber duel with Obi-Wan, where Obi-Wan certainly has a chance.

It could go either way, really. I'm undecided.

Jesus Christ, I just friggin' blanked. It was either in the TFU novelization, CVD, or Clone Wars Visual Guide where Kenobi is stated to be a true master of both Ataru and Soresu. It doesn't matter, though. Revan's Force powers are seemingly a tier or so above Count Dooku's own. The duo might be able to overcome him in a lightsaber battle, but his mastery of the Force is simply too great for them.

Well, while Revan's knowledge base and dark side mastery should be above Dooku's, Dooku is still a skilled force user. And, mind you, Obi-Wan blocked Dooku's lightning (easily) when he was far weaker than in his incarnation during this duel. He could resist Revan's lightning for some time.

Maybe Qui-Gon will be a force dummy, so Obi-Wan can close in and saber duel Revan. Don't you think Obi-Wan can beat him in a lightsaber duel?

No, I don't think Obi-Wan, one on one, could beat Revan. He uses a defense style. He'd end up like in his fight with Dooku on the Invisible Hand. Also, Revan made his own effing Sith Holocron, plus wrote at least one book on the Dark Side. Safe to say, his knowledge and control of the Force is greater than Dooku's.

In a pure saber duel, not an all-out fight.

Well, if what Gideon says is true and Obi-Wan is a master of both Ataru and Soresu, well, that should end the 'he has no offense!' argument. Ataru is one of the most offensive forms, and Revan is a complete unknown in lightsaber dueling- with what we know of Obi-Wan, who is a top-notch lightsaber user, he could beat Revan in a pure saber duel.

Wasn't it said that Revan was the best duelist in an Order of thousands? Or am I thinking of another KotoR godlike being?

Originally posted by Gideon
You'd be wrong. And that's not just my opinion. If we're to take Darth Malak at his from his observation that Revan, at the end of KotOR, as a Jedi, was more powerful than as his tenure as a Dark Lord of the Sith, he is inferior to Yoda, whom the omniscient narrator of Revenge of the Sith declares "the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known."

And how did you deduce hes inferior to Yoda? Opinion. Also about the Sidious quote, the ROTS novel is not exactly a trustworthy source because it contradicts the movie several times, but either way that quote is unrelated to Revan because he has the option of becoming a Jedi, and even if he becomes a Sith its heavily implied in kotor 2 that it was solely for the reason of countering the hidden sith empire and that Revan never truly fell.

I think you're thinking of Revan.

As far as I knew, Obi-Wan switched from Ataru before he had mastered it. (Switching right after TPM, because of his master's death.) But, Gideon has the sources, not me.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
And how did you deduce hes inferior to Yoda? Opinion. Also about the Sidious quote, the ROTS novel is not exactly a trustworthy source because it contradicts the movie several times, but either way that quote is unrelated to Revan because he has the option of becoming a Jedi, and even if he becomes a Sith its heavily implied in kotor 2 that it was solely for the reason of countering the hidden sith empire and that Revan never truly fell. What are you talking about? Revan was said to have been more powerful coming back to the lightside than he was as a Sith. Yoda, a Jedi, is noted as being "the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known." That would include Revan both times as a Jedi. "Ever known" includes all time periods.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
What are you talking about? Revan was said to have been more powerful coming back to the lightside than he was as a Sith. Yoda, a Jedi, is noted as being "the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known." That would include Revan both times as a Jedi. "Ever known" includes all time periods.

Ah your right I misinterpreted, I thought he was talking about that Sidious quote. Still, my argument stands because Revan isnt easily classed as a Jedi just the same as he isnt easily classed as a Sith. And the ROTS novel is full of crap, it contradicts the movies.

"Opinion", "full of crap", "contradicts the movies" are excuses, but not good ones.

The omniscient narrator calls Yoda "the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known". He is not only stronger than any Jedi but anyone who has ever fought the dark side; Revan, canonically, is one of those people. Moreover, that does not contradict the movies.

Yoda > Revan. Accept it and move on. It's not up for debate.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Wasn't it said that Revan was the best duelist in an Order of thousands? Or am I thinking of another KotoR godlike being?

I have no idea. But even if that quote was 'bout him, that doesn't say much, considering that virtually everyone in the Order was basically an unknown in terms of saber skills. Stick Mace or Obi-Wan there, and they would also be the greatest swordsman in that order.

Unknowns are unknowns. And Obi-Wan isn't an unknown; he's arguably one of the greatest lightsaber combatants of all time.

Originally posted by Gideon
It doesn't matter, though. Revan's Force powers are seemingly a tier or so above Count Dooku's own.Based on...?

Originally posted by Faunus
Based on...?

My say so, apprentice. That is enough.

Originally posted by Faunus
Based on...?

Originally posted by Enyalus
Also, Revan made his own effing Sith Holocron, plus wrote at least one book on the Dark Side. Safe to say, his knowledge and control of the Force is greater than Dooku's.

Yup...that's my reason. And sure, you could come back with, "that doesn't mean anything, Dooku was busy starting a war." Or, uh, something. But then I'd probably say, "And Revan was busy winning one." And we could go from there.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Yup...that's my reason. And sure, you could come back with, "that doesn't mean anything, Dooku was busy starting a war." Or, uh, something. But then I'd probably say, "And Revan was busy winning one." And we could go from there.You side with the infidel?

But, um, no. Revan certainly had a greater grasp of the Dark side, but that doesn't mean he was more powerful. And while I actually adhere to that stance (Revan > Dooku in power) I don't really know why, as he has little supporting him but hyperbolic statements from those who were awed and enamored by him.

Originally posted by Gideon
"Opinion", "full of crap", "contradicts the movies" are excuses, but not good ones.

The omniscient narrator calls Yoda "the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known". He is not only stronger than any Jedi but anyone who has ever fought the dark side; Revan, canonically, is one of those people. Moreover, that does not contradict the movies.

Yoda > Revan. Accept it and move on. It's not up for debate.

They arent excuse, if the novel contradicts higher level canon(the movies) that puts the entire novel into a questionable area.

Also the Jedi fight the darkness with light, Revan became a lesser evil in order to fight a greater evil, it would be ignorant to classify him as of the light side. He made his own decisions and didnt directly follow the light or dark side as heavily implied in kotor 2.

It is up for a debate, its been debated countless times before and there will never likely be valid evidence which shows that Revan is stronger or weaker than the more modern powerhouses.

Originally posted by Faunus
I actually adhere to that stance (Revan > Dooku in power)...

You see? We agree. Case closed.

Excuse the double post, but GV's canonicity point is pretty good. Is there more than one quote that states Yoda as being the most powerful Jedi ever? Otherwise you could argue that that particular author was using hyperbole. Especially if only one author confirms it. Authors have made mistakes *coughs*Drew*coughs* and exaggerated their characters abilities *coughs*Drew*coughs*. In addition, we've seen all the crap that the TFU novel put into play, stomping all over canon and in general making no sense whatsoever. At least we have multiple and numerous in-novel and in-movie quotes that state Sidious as the most powerful Sith Lord ever.

No. It's not a good point.

The novel was personally reviewed by George Lucas, who approved of every line and every statement made by the book- if he didn't think Yoda > Revan (and all other Jedi previously), he wouldn't have allowed that line. Seriously, that's ridiculous.

This is valid evidence putting Yoda directly over Revan. And, besides, Revan would still have fought the darkness; Yoda was labelled the most powerful person to ever fight the dark. That includes Revan.

GL should stop thinking, and save himself the embarrassment. Seriously. TFU and Clone Wars. *sigh*

He's still the ultimate canon.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
They arent excuse, if the novel contradicts higher level canon(the movies) that puts the entire novel into a questionable area. Actually, according to L. Chee (I believe) any time a novel contradicts the movie, just the part that is contradicted is dismissed. Plus, the fact that GL worked extremely close with the author, further suggests that it is one of the more complete canon novels we've been given.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
No. It's not a good point.

The novel was personally reviewed by George Lucas, who approved of every line and every statement made by the book- if he didn't think Yoda > Revan (and all other Jedi previously), he wouldn't have allowed that line. Seriously, that's ridiculous.

This is valid evidence putting Yoda directly over Revan. And, besides, Revan would still have fought the darkness; Yoda was labelled the most powerful person to ever fight the dark. That includes Revan.

Where was it said that George Lucas approved everything in the novel? Im not necessarily calling you a liar but your position would be more credible if you would provide proof. I find it hard to believe that GL would willingly allow contradictions to the movies in the novel.

And no, Yoda was labelled the most devasting foe that the darkness had ever faced. Lets look at the definition of foe:

1: one who has personal enmity for another
2 a: an enemy in war b: adversary, opponent
3: one who opposes on principle <a foe of needless expenditures>
4: something prejudicial or injurious

A foe must have opposing principles. The principles that the book means in paticular are the light and dark sides of the force, what else could 'the darkness' mean? Revan as Sith may be a lesser evil than the true sith but he was still far removed from the ideals of the Jedi. For instance in the novel Darth Bane: Path of Destruction, Bane finds a holocron from Revan and described him as a true lord of the sith, and the holocron is where he learned alot of his knowledge and ideals. Does Revan sound like an opponent to the dark side now? Though he cant truly be classified as Sith because they only work out of self interest where as Revan wanted to preserve the galaxy from the hidden sith, even if his means to do so were decidedly against Jedi teachings. Its evident that Revan cant be classified as dark or light which has been my point all along. Revan is unrelated to the conflict between the dark and light sides of the force which the ROTS quote describes.

Originally posted by Gideon
"Opinion", "full of crap", "contradicts the movies" are excuses, but not good ones.

The omniscient narrator calls Yoda "the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known". He is not only stronger than any Jedi but anyone who has ever fought the dark side; Revan, canonically, is one of those people. Moreover, that does not contradict the movies.

Yoda > Revan. Accept it and move on. It's not up for debate.

I'm afraid, Gideon. That is up for debate.

Because, you know, the notion that Revan as a Jedi > Revan as a Sith Lord, just happens to be the personal opinion of Malak, which doesn't make that statement a fact. And since that statement isn't a fact, Revan could still have been stronger as a Sith than he was as a Jedi. As we are discussing Darth Revan here, he still can be stronger than Yoda .

Not that it would even matter, Gideon. Because we neither know how great that "gap" between Yoda and the second most powerful Jedi is, nor do we know, if said gap in terms of power can't be compensated with other abilities that would matter in a direct confrontation

And aside of that, Gideon, you should edge forward to the fact, that any piece of literature is subject to interpretation, hyperbole or, when it comes to character thoughts / statements, falsification. In this case, you might notice something in the original quote:

"Finally, he saw the truth. This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known "

Notice. The omnicient narrator clearly recaps the "truth" from Yoda's point of view. The "truth" that Yoda was seeing. Which might be "true" from an objective or omniscient point of view - but doesn't have to be. And in this case, the statement would prevent any Jedi from defeating Sidious, since Yoda is the most powerful one and can't do the job, which - obviously - can't be true, since we know that Mace Windu did already defeat Sidious prior to the Sith Lords confrontation with Yoda.

Yep. And if were allowing hyperbole to be considered valid evidence, Kreia called Revan the 'heart of the force'. Do I win now? How could anyone defeat the heart of the force?

I also agree with GV statements about Revan. Can we actually call Revan a Jedi during the events of Kotor? When he gained his memory he never returned to the Jedi Order. All we know is that Reven has the ability to use both light and dark side techniques.

We have yet to see Revan at his full potential as force user.

Being a less powerful "foe of the darkness" doesn't mean Revan couldn't take Yoda in a fight, not that I'm stating he could.

And Revan is confirmed as a lightsider by the NEC, I believe, so the quote applies to him as well.

That is where you are completely wrong. The parts that conflict with the movie are thrown "into a questionable area", not the whole thing itself. The statement that Yoda is the most powerful foe the darkness had ever known is stated by the omniscient narrator and is one hundred percent narrative. Moreover, Matthew Stover revealed in an interview that George Lucas personally edited and went over the novelization; anything that is present is because he wanted it there. You will have to prove that Yoda being the strongest Jedi in history contradicts the movie.



Irrelevant. Yoda is stated to be the most powerful foe the darkness had ever known. It did not say "Jedi" or "lightsider" but said that Yoda is the most powerful individual to ever oppose the dark side. Revan, canonically, fought against the dark side in the form of Darth Malak and his Sith forces. Ergo, he was a foe of the darkness. But according to the omniscient narrator, not the strongest. That would be Yoda.



Incorrect. There is. Like statements such as this.



Actually, you don't. For two reasons. First, Kreia isn't the omniscient narrator. She's a fallible third party who is prone to prejudices and biases. Second, "heart of the Force" does not necessarily translate to power. Someone can construe ambiguity. "Most powerful" is fairly straightforward.



Lightsnake posted the proof on EoD. It is supposedly an interview with Mr. Stover. I'll ask him.

Where was it said that George Lucas approved everything in the novel? Im not necessarily calling you a liar but your position would be more credible if you would provide proof. I find it hard to believe that GL would willingly allow contradictions to the movies in the novel.


An entire paragraph of misinformation and irrelevance. Canonically, Revan returned to the light side of the Force to defeat Darth Malak and the opposing Sith. He is not bigger than the dark side versus the light side, and he is part of it. He, canonically, opposed the darkness and is therefore a foe of it. And, therefore, he is weaker than Yoda.



The statement is coming directly from the omniscient narrator, Nai. It's as clear cut as it gets. If you're going to shroud that in ambuigity and claim it is from Yoda's perspective, then there is no such thing as the omniscient narrator in the mythos, since all statements can be construed as coming from a particular individual. But it isn't, say, Harry Potter where all observations come from the characters. The narrator specifically identifies the truth that Yoda was seeing. Furthermore, as to the notion that the statement means that no Jedi could stop Sidious, nothing indicates as much. That's an inference. It simply says that the strongest lightsider in history wasn't going to win that fight. And he didn't. He was destined to lose and so he did. As did Mace Windu. He was unable to kill the Sith Lord.

Ill concede this point if you provide proof of your claims that Lucas approves the novel.


My argument clearly went over your head. Opposing the dark side does not mean simply fighting dark siders, you need to oppose the dark side in principal. How else can you oppose an ideal? By another ideal.

That remark wasnt a legitimate argument, it was rather a mockery of the logic that you are using. It doesnt matter if hyperbole comes from a third party or the 'omniscient' narrator, its still hyperbole. The quote was meant to add dramatic effect. To take everything that the narrator says at face value is ignorant.

Im not talking about those events. Before he lost his memory's, Darth Revan was a canonical sith(though with different intentions than other sith). That bit about Malak saying that Revan was at the height of his power when he was light side is from a third party and can be disgarded. Bastila had talked about how the light side weakened Revan, so do you see the fallibility of relying on such sources? How would Malak know the true depths of Revans power? And also Revan had forgotten so much knowledge after losing his memories(like the teachings of Malachor V) that it would be against common sense to believe that he hadnt lost a considerable amount of power by forgetting those teachings.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
That remark wasnt a legitimate argument, it was rather a mockery of the logic that you are using. It doesnt matter if hyperbole comes from a third party or the 'omniscient' narrator, its still hyperbole. The quote was meant to add dramatic effect. To take everything that the narrator says at face value is ignorant. Sorry to butt in. It does matter where hyperbole comes from in this case. A character is part of the story and is subject to the fallibilities the author conveys upon him/her. Kreia is manipulative, Harry potter is hot-headed. The author (or owner) is the ultimate source of a character and what is said about him/her. And if the narration is approved of by the author (and owner), then it is canon and is as good as law (unless later overridden and retconned by the owner, i.e Lucas). Rowling says Tom Riddle was gifted, it is not up for debate. The writers of KotOR have contradicted nothing in the movies, so what they say about their characters is green light. And if Lucas wants to go and (probably indirectly) say Yoda is more powerful than Revan, he is.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Im not talking about those events. Before he lost his memory's, Darth Revan was a canonical sith(though with different intentions than other sith). That bit about Malak saying that Revan was at the height of his power when he was light side is from a third party and can be disgarded. Bastila had talked about how the light side weakened Revan, so do you see the fallibility of relying on such sources? How would Malak know the true depths of Revans power? And also Revan had forgotten so much knowledge after losing his memories(like the teachings of Malachor V) that it would be against common sense to believe that he hadnt lost a considerable amount of power by forgetting those teachings. I've no source to back this up with, but Revan isn't canonically set as stronger as a redeemed Jedi than his Sith-self for no reason. Let's not get carried away and start "supposing" or contemplating what he might have had.

By the by, if there's something in Lucas's world of editing and transitions that dispells any of that ^ do let me know. I hate looking like an ass and not knowing why.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Sorry to butt in. It does matter where hyperbole comes from in this case. A character is part of the story and is subject to the fallibilities the author conveys upon him/her. Kreia is manipulative, Harry potter is hot-headed. The author (or owner) is the ultimate source of a character and what is said about him/her. And if the narration is approved of by the author (and owner), then it is canon and is as good as law (unless later overridden and retconned by the owner, i.e Lucas). Rowling says Tom Riddle was gifted, it is not up for debate. The writers of KotOR have contradicted nothing in the movies, so what they say about their characters is green light. And if Lucas wants to go and (probably indirectly) say Yoda is more powerful than Revan, he is.

I've no source to back this up with, but Revan isn't canonically set as stronger as a redeemed Jedi than his Sith-self for no reason. Let's not get carried away and start "supposing" or contemplating what he might have had.

By the by, if there's something in Lucas's world of editing and transitions that dispells any of that ^ do let me know. I hate looking like an ass and not knowing why.

Well it may very well be canon but that doesnt make it right. If Lucas came out and stated C-3PO is the most powerful force user in Star Wars would all you people blindly believe him? That quote in the ROTS novel was clearly intended for dramatic effect, the author most likely has never played kotor nor read about the ancient Sith and Jedi. But I know Im walking a fine line here so I'll leave it be, the real meat in this argument lies in the fact that the quote doesnt even apply to Revan.

The only source which states that the light side Revan is stronger was Malak. Hes a fallible third party. On top of that hes never even shown any paticular wisdom or good insight into anything, and I already gave reasons why it would not make sense for Revan to be stronger during his light side career.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Well it may very well be canon but that doesnt make it right. If Lucas came out and stated C-3PO is the most powerful force user in Star Wars would all you people blindly believe him? T

Yes. Lucas' word is law. Always. If he said tat TPM Anakin > Dooku in lightsaber combat it'd pretty much just be a fact in the Star Wars universe. We can't pick and choose canon.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Well it may very well be canon but that doesnt make it right. If Lucas came out and stated C-3PO is the most powerful force user in Star Wars would all you people blindly believe him? That quote in the ROTS novel was clearly intended for dramatic effect, the author most likely has never played kotor nor read about the ancient Sith and Jedi. But I know Im walking a fine line here so I'll leave it be, the real meat in this argument lies in the fact that the quote doesnt even apply to Revan.

The only source which states that the light side Revan is stronger was Malak. Hes a fallible third party. On top of that hes never even shown any paticular wisdom or good insight into anything, and I already gave reasons why it would not make sense for Revan to be stronger during his light side career. If anybody, Malak would be the one who'd know wouldn't he? He's not absolute certainly, but in lieu of any other source, Malak can suffice. He knew Revan's power as a Dark Lord better than anyone, and as an Echani would say, he'd have a pretty accurate gauge of Revan's power in the Light in their battle. I could swear that's a canonical piece, but I'm not great at finding sources.

And sorry, but like Blax said, in the Star Wars mythos, George Lucas (creator and legal owner) has God-like powers of decision over what Is and what Is Not. Doesn't make it morally right on his part, and we don't have to agree with his choice or remotely like it (I personally hate the idea of the Sith ruling the galaxy pre-Ruusan), but in terms of canon, he's Draco.

Malak is the best source to determine Revan's power in kotot. He was Darth Revan's fvkin apprentice, you know the same Revan who went to Malachor and had all that knowledge. Malak would obviously be able to sense his power in the force. You mean to tell us that Malak would not be able to determine how powerful Revan has become by the end of kotor compared to his former self after being Revan's best friend/apprentice for years? And all quotes aside Darth Revan's is a virtually as unknown as the ancient sith, while the Revan in kotor at least has combat related feats that we can judge him by. Darth Revan has the force storm on the rakatan scouts, killing Mandalore and killing Yusanis. Then a shit load of quotes of how uber he is. Hardly enough to put him above Yoda. (or postkotor Revan)

@Great Vengence



Wait so for an author's work to be considered canon to you, he/she must have an intimate knowledge of the enitre star wars mythos? Guess what, none of the authors have read everything there is to know about star wars, they got payed to do a job and they do it. By this logic half of the EU(especially the newer material since kotor's was created) or more wouldn't exist probably.


Would you care to remind us why Revan left the galaxy? I'll answer that Revan left the galaxy to oppose the true sith. Unless your willing to tell us that the true sith aren't dark side users then the(yoda) quote still applies to Revan since he left to face the true sith.


I mean no offense to anyone but from what I read this thread reads like a "desperate" attempt (to me) to find anyway to make Revan more powerful or more specifically to surpass Yoda.

I understand what GV is stating concerning Revan. GV I guess we will have to wait until Kotor III to confirmed whether Revan became a full devoted light side force user.

Point I believe GV is making is that Revan was one who opposed the light and dark side of the force. Since Revan opposed the light side no matter what his reasons where that would automatically put him below Yoda, Nomi, Obi Wan, or anyone who was dedicated to the light side and opposed the dark side.

Anakin was the most powerful force user ever known but that did not put him above Yoda and we know why.

Personally though I believe Yoda is second to Luke and Anakin in force potential. Yoda I do not believe is most knowledgeable in force techniques for the light side of the force.

Originally posted by Tangible God
If anybody, Malak would be the one who'd know wouldn't he? He's not absolute certainly, but in lieu of any other source, Malak can suffice. He knew Revan's power as a Dark Lord better than anyone, and as an Echani would say, he'd have a pretty accurate gauge of Revan's power in the Light in their battle. I could swear that's a canonical piece, but I'm not great at finding sources.

And sorry, but like Blax said, in the Star Wars mythos, George Lucas (creator and legal owner) has God-like powers of decision over what Is and what Is Not. Doesn't make it morally right on his part, and we don't have to agree with his choice or remotely like it (I personally hate the idea of the Sith ruling the galaxy pre-Ruusan), but in terms of canon, he's Draco.

No, he doesnt suffice. If Malak had such an accurate gauge on Revans power, why even fight when he was destined to lose? From what I recall Malak was pretty cocky early on in the fight. But anyways, all the speculation in the world doesnt change the fact that Malak is a fallible third party. Otherwise everything that Kreia said about Revan would be equally Valid if not much more so because Kreia actually trained Revan where as Malak was just his idiot apprentice that had no appreciation of Revans true intentions.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Malak is the best source to determine Revan's power in kotot. He was Darth Revan's fvkin apprentice, you know the same Revan who went to Malachor and had all that knowledge. Malak would obviously be able to sense his power in the force. You mean to tell us that Malak would not be able to determine how powerful Revan has become by the end of kotor compared to his former self after being Revan's best friend/apprentice for years? And all quotes aside Darth Revan's is a virtually as unknown as the ancient sith, while the Revan in kotor at least has combat related feats that we can judge him by. Darth Revan has the force storm on the rakatan scouts, killing Mandalore and killing Yusanis. Then a shit load of quotes of how uber he is. Hardly enough to put him above Yoda. (or postkotor Revan)

@Great Vengence



Wait so for an author's work to be considered canon to you, he/she must have an intimate knowledge of the enitre star wars mythos? Guess what, none of the authors have read everything there is to know about star wars, they got payed to do a job and they do it. By this logic half of the EU(especially the newer material since kotor's was created) or more wouldn't exist probably.


Would you care to remind us why Revan left the galaxy? I'll answer that Revan left the galaxy to oppose the true sith. Unless your willing to tell us that the true sith aren't dark side users then the(yoda) quote still applies to Revan since he left to face the true sith.


I mean no offense to anyone but from what I read this thread reads like a "desperate" attempt (to me) to find anyway to make Revan more powerful or more specifically to surpass Yoda.

Ive already addressed why Malak doesnt suffice. Yes pre light side Revan is an unknown, which is precisely why somone cant take that quote from the ROTS novel and expect it to apply to Revan. You guys cant conviently choose which Revan were dealing with, if you want to prove that Yoda is more powerful than Revan than you have to deal with all his incarnations.

I wasnt debating that the ROTS novel isnt canon(as long as somone provides the proof that Lucas approves it).

I know why Revan left the galaxy, and Ive already addressed this many times. The ROTS describes the conflict between light and darkness, in order to be a foe to darkness you need to oppose the darkness in principle. 'The Darkness' is an ideal. Just fighting dark siders isnt enough, otherwise the quote would say that Yoda was the most devasting opponent that dark side users have ever faced.

It may seem desperate to your questionable intellect. Im not trying to prove a positive that Revan is stronger than Yoda. Im just dispelling the heavily convoluted argument that the ROTS novel quote = Yoda is stronger than Revan.

Originally posted by Kotor3
I understand what GV is stating concerning Revan. GV I guess we will have to wait until Kotor III to confirmed whether Revan became a full devoted light side force user.

Point I believe GV is making is that Revan was one who opposed the light and dark side of the force. Since Revan opposed the light side no matter what his reasons where that would automatically put him below Yoda, Nomi, Obi Wan, or anyone who was dedicated to the light side and opposed the dark side.

Anakin was the most powerful force user ever known but that did not put him above Yoda and we know why.

Personally though I believe Yoda is second to Luke and Anakin in force potential. Yoda I do not believe is most knowledgeable in force techniques for the light side of the force.

Yes Kotor III will answer alot of our questions about Revan, as long as they include a decent storyline and do not go the way of WoW. Its been confirmed as an MMO.

Vengeance is right in that some of your are operating under double-standards regarding the validity of Kreia's and Malak's respective opinions.

That's fair enough. Though I don't think it would be conducive to put any of Revan's incarnations at Yoda's level. If he's stronger than Yoda as Jedi, then he contradicts Lucas, and if he's stronger than Yoda a Dark Lord, he contradicts Lucas.

Before anyone overreacts, Yoda may have lost to Sidious but I think it's generally agreed upon that the two are close enough in power levels. To put Darth Revan between them is enough to threaten Lucas' stance on Sidious being #1. It's quite ridiculous, by anyone's standards that Revan should be so close.

Originally posted by Tangible God
That's fair enough. Though I don't think it would be conducive to put any of Revan's incarnations at Yoda's level. If he's stronger than Yoda as Jedi, then he contradicts Lucas, and if he's stronger than Yoda a Dark Lord, he contradicts Lucas.

Before anyone overreacts, Yoda may have lost to Sidious but I think it's generally agreed upon that the two are close enough in power levels. To put Darth Revan between them is enough to threaten Lucas' stance on Sidious being #1. It's quite ridiculous, by anyone's standards that Revan should be so close.

And what are you refering to, when you say Sidious is #1? The other quote in the ROTS novel? That quote labels Sidious as the greatest sith lord. Greatest doesnt necessarily mean most powerful, it could mean most successful in achieving the goals of the Sith for instance. Of course Palpatine would be greater than Revan in that regard because Revan wasnt even trying to dominate the galaxy. Greatest is open for interpretation and could mean alot of things.

If your refering to some other source than feel free to share.

No, the NEC notes him to be "the most powerful Sith Lord in history."

Originally posted by Faunus
No, the NEC notes him to be "the most powerful Sith Lord in history."

Ah I see. I havent debated here in a long time, I had no idea about that.

No worries.

So yeah, there you go.