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General Grievous (LOE/ROTS), Asajj Ventress (Season 5), and Savage Opress (Season 5) all clash head to head in a free for all duel.

Who will be standing by the end of this bloody confrontation? The Apprentice who left Tyranus for Maul, The apprentice who Left Tyranus for the Nightsisters, or the apprentice who left Tyranus's corpse aboard his ship?

Discounting the nonsense that TCW subjected Grievous to, I'll back him. He's at least as skilled as Ventress as a duelist if not flat out superior, and has better physical stats than both of them. They have telekinesis on their side, but aside from BFRing him I don't see how they can kill him with it.

Originally posted by ILS
Discounting the nonsense that TCW subjected Grievous to, I'll back him.
Here's a little thread addressing that
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=595911

I have a new found respect for Grievous after SOD and his total stompage of Kenobi in the unfinished episode of TCW's final season.

I think all 3 of these are bad ass's and can win on any given day, but I'm going to give Opress the most wins due to his beastly Tk.

Opress' TK rage will be the end of Grevious, and Ventress will just about scrape through thanks to her infinitely superior style.

GG.

Ventress.

I'd give it to Grievous for a majority. At his peak, he outclasses either of his adversaries as duelists, and boasts substantially greater speed than them in combat. Though Ventress and Savage both have the edge of telekinesis, I doubt Ventress would use it consistently enough to actually take Grievous out of the fight, and while I think this is something Savage is capable of doing under the right circumstances, I doubt it would happen for a majority.

Something to be addressed here is Grievous's hubris. The relatively low performances he gives in some of his TCW fights, were often a result of overwhelming hubris. Fortunately for the good General, this appears to only come in play up to a certain point in time. Ever since he failed to kill Ahsoka on Florrum, he appears to take his duels a lot more seriously. In every fight we've seen him in since then, meaning the Utapau Arc where he beat Kenobi, Son of Dathomir where he contended with Maul, Labyrinth of Evil where he held his own against Windu, and Revenge of the Sith where he was overwhelming Kenobi's defenses. His second duel with Ahsoka is the last time I can think of where his hubris gets the better of him, and from that point on is when he attains the best of his dueling feats. I doubt his hubris will hinder him in this fight, given that this is him at his peak.

So aside from the fact that I consider Grievous the greatest warrior of the three, I also believe he is the best suited for the occasion. His greater number of blades provides him with more defensive coverage, offensive viability, and unpredictability than Savage or Asajj, which should be a decent edge in a free for all such as this. Also for consideration is the tactical computers slaved to Grievous's brain via cybernetics, which are the same ones that allowed him to adapt and respond to Windu's Vaapad offensive.

So in a multiple opponent free for all such as this, Grievous is the greatest duelist, is the most unpredictable, and can adapt to the situation more easily than his opponents can, and for these reasons, I'd say Grievous wins the majority of the fights here.

Is the Utapau Arc canon?

Either Ventress or Grievous imo

1- Savage
2- Ventress
3- Grievous

All battles would be close though.

Also, lets not forget, Season 4 & 5 Savage is even more powerful than the one in Season 3,

Dooku himself declared ;

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''That creature Savage Opress is growing stronger and stronger as each day passes... He is a threat to all of us."

Originally posted by Marco1907

''That creature Savage Opress is growing stronger and stronger as each day passes... He is a threat to all of us."

If we're going by quotes, then didn't Sidious himself think that Dooku was plotting to betray him with Ventress and ordered Dooku to kill her because He considered her a threat?

But, anyway, i'm going with Grevious, despite his odd performances, he's a powerful duelist and is pretty capable of taking on Ventress and Savage, and this is a free for all, he has(you saw nothing dmb) Four lightsabers at his disposal. Things could get problematic.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Here's a little thread addressing that
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=595911
I don't think there's any way to address it other than - it's TCW. It's the same show which had Maul being shot by pirates, Anakin being kicked across a room by a senator (or someone along those lines), and Ahsoka Tano not being slaughtered by Grievous in moments.

I believe it was Filoni who said that General Grievous isn't skilled enough to fight a Council Member by himself, and is a coward. Yes, that includes Yarael Poof.

Separate EU Grievous from TCW which is inherently very inconsistent with EU portrayals, and you're good to go.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
If we're going by quotes, then didn't Sidious himself think that Dooku was plotting to betray him with Ventress and ordered Dooku to kill her because He considered her a threat?

But, anyway, i'm going with Grevious, despite his odd performances, he's a powerful duelist and is pretty capable of taking on Ventress and Savage, and this is a free for all, he ass Four lightsabers at his disposal. Things could get problematic.

True. I never said this would be ease fight though, but still Savage already proved that he can take Asajj in Season 4, and his sheer strength gives him the advantage against Asajj's makashi.

Originally posted by Marco1907
True. I never said this would be ease fight though, but still Savage already proved that he can take Asajj in Season 4, and his sheer strength gives him the advantage against Asajj's makashi.


Well she was down to a single saber when Opress beat her.

So I'd personally give Ventress the Saber fight, but I still give Opress the edge in an all out due to his Beastly Tk.

Sabers:

1. Ventress
2. Grievous
3. Opress

(Ventress vs Grievous will be close though).

All Out:

1. Opress
2. Ventress
3. Grievous

(But honestly, any one of them can win on any given day).


Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
he has(you saw nothing dmb) Four lightsabers at his disposal. Things could get problematic.


Actually Grievous has consistently performed better fighting with 2 Sabers.

But yeah I can see 4 Sabers causing someone as untrained and unskilled as Opress some serious trouble.

Poor Komari Vosa.

Ventress had enough trouble with TCW Grievous, I'm pretty sure peak Grievous can take her.

Micro-series Grievous make no sense to me. Dooku himself said in LoE novel that Grievous can't defeat council member level jedi masters ;



Since Dave Filoni was close to Lucas, and can learn his opinions on Star Wars, I am going with TCW / Movie canon Grievous, which is council member jedi level at best,

and clearly Savage and Asajj can be a little better than that level.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Ventress had enough trouble with TCW Grievous, I'm pretty sure peak Grievous can take her.


That was without use of TK though. Someone of Ventress's caliber should be able to take him with TK added to the mix.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Savage Opress

Lol. Are we all electing to ignore the fact that EU Grievous has stalemated Mace Windu (Labyrinth of Evil), repeatedly given Dooku close sparring sessions (can't quite remember the source but I can dig it up), overwhelmed Obi-Wan Kenobi's defences with twenty strikes per second (Revenge of the Sith), defeated a duo of Asajj Ventress and Durge in a comic, ect. Then you have him losing to Ventress, and backing away from the likes of Eeth Koth in TCW. As far as I'm concerned it's a different version of the character altogether.

As far as sabers are concerned it's
Grievous > Ventress > Savage
Even adding in TK wouldn't help them unless they BFR'd him, because none of them have demonstrated Force crush or anything similar.

Originally posted by ILS
Lol. Are we all electing to ignore the fact that EU Grievous has stalemated Mace Windu (Labyrinth of Evil), repeatedly given Dooku close sparring sessions (can't quite remember the source but I can dig it up), overwhelmed Obi-Wan Kenobi's defences with twenty strikes per second (Revenge of the Sith), defeated a duo of Asajj Ventress and Durge in a comic, ect.


Nope, you're right. GG wins.

Ahsoka kicks GG's ass.

TCW General Grievous* Not EU Grievous.

TCW Grievous also stomped Obi-Wan in a duel, which, to me, is even better than his Hypori feat in OCW.

Are we not forgetting.... Tol Skorr??

Ok, any of the main trio would pwn him in a second ^^

Originally posted by Nargaroth
TCW Grievous also stomped Obi-Wan in a duel, which, to me, is even better than his Hypori feat in OCW.

Which episode ?

Originally posted by Q99
Are we not forgetting.... Tol Skorr??

Ok, any of the main trio would pwn him in a second ^^

Were forgetting a LOT of people dude.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Which episode ?

This one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAe5Ogs6a-c

My feeling is that while Griev improved, so did Ventress. In the end I think she'd still have the small edge.

Originally posted by Nargaroth
This one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAe5Ogs6a-c

Hmm. Good one. (I hope you are counting Maul's lightning deflection with sabre and TK feat against Darth Sidious as well, since this one is un-aired episode just like that deleted scene)

I need to say ''but'' ... Obi-Wan defeated him via TK attacks twice in TCW as well. People saying that using TK attacks on Grievous is not fair, but he is using cybernetic limbs all the time and is that fair ? Because he only defeated Obi-Wan there via surprise factor with his cybernetic limb.

In total count at TCW ; Obi-Wan 2 - Grievous 1,

Nice catch from that un-aired episode though.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Hmm. Good one. (I hope you are counting Maul's TK feat against Darth Sidious as well, since this one is un-aired episode just like that deleted scene)

I need to say ''but'' ... Obi-Wan defeated him via TK attacks twice in TCW as well. People saying that using TK attacks on Grievous is not fair, but he is using cybernetic limbs all the time and is that fair ? Because he only defeated Obi-Wan there via surprise factor with his cybernetic limb.

In total count at TCW ; Obi-Wan 2 - Grievous 1,

Nice catch from that un-aired episode though.

Maul vs Sidious is a deleted scene from a finished episode, and it's not canon, not to mention Filoni said that Maul was no match for his former master. This is an unaired episode from an unreleased story arc, and it should be canon, otherwise I wouldn't have included it. Huge difference.

On a second thought however, this feat is probably inconsistent, unless we accept Emperor's explanation that Grievous was being cocky in his other fights throughout TCW.

I'll note Anakin and Kenobi seemed the most actually intimidated by Savage.

Originally posted by Nargaroth
Maul vs Sidious is a deleted scene from a finished episode, and it's not canon, not to mention Filoni said that Maul was no match for his former master. This is an unaired episode from an unreleased story arc, and it should be canon, otherwise I wouldn't have included it. Huge difference.



I didn't say he was a match for Sidious. Holding his own for a while doesn't mean you can match with him, Dooku hold his own against Yoda, but clearly he is no match for Yoda without any amp or advantage.
And Maul was not even alone, Savage was helping Maul there.

As for the deleted scene, they certainly did something there, otherwise there was no reason to change the location of their fighting place at mandalore.
Originally posted by Nargaroth

On a second thought however, this feat is probably inconsistent, unless we accept Emperor's explanation that Grievous was being cocky in his other fights throughout TCW.

I agree that is inconsistent, but surely that is a win for Grievous's account.

Originally posted by Nargaroth
TCW Grievous also stomped Obi-Wan in a duel, which, to me, is even better than his Hypori feat in OCW.

So has Ventress.

Originally posted by Nephthys
So has Ventress.

In a duel? I doubt it, and she should only be Obi-Wan's equal. I also recall that Dooku regarded Grievous as the best duellist among his apprentices, and this should be correct based off EU/OCW/Utapau Arc feats.

In one duel she knocks out Kenobi in under 10 seconds while dueling Anakin at the same time.

Could you please post it? I don't remember that.

Can't find it on youtube. It's in the episode Nightsisters, about 4 minutes in.

Originally posted by ILS
Lol. Are we all electing to ignore the fact that EU Grievous has stalemated Mace Windu (Labyrinth of Evil), repeatedly given Dooku close sparring sessions (can't quite remember the source but I can dig it up), overwhelmed Obi-Wan Kenobi's defences with twenty strikes per second (Revenge of the Sith), defeated a duo of Asajj Ventress and Durge in a comic, ect. Then you have him losing to Ventress, and backing away from the likes of Eeth Koth in TCW. As far as I'm concerned it's a different version of the character altogether.

As far as sabers are concerned it's
Grievous > Ventress > Savage
Even adding in TK wouldn't help them unless they BFR'd him, because none of them have demonstrated Force crush or anything similar.


Actually, aside from no longer being a challenge for Dooku and Windu and a few low showings, TCW Grievous has been consistently depicted as being a challenge for jedi masters such as Kenobi. I mean, the only force users who didn't seem to struggle with Grievous were Ventress (who was on dark side nexus and and a place imbued with nightsister magic; though I'm not sure if the imbued nightsister magic would have benefitted Ventress as it would Talzin. I find it unlikely especially in a saber duel) and Fisto. Other than that, most of the force users who beat Grievous or gained an advantage over him, happened when they distanced themselves from him, otherwise Grievous's speed was usually good enough to make it hard for force users to use the force on him mid-combat. Majority of his fights with Kenobi had Grievous holding the upper hand until Kenobi found the opportunity to utilize the force on him. In other words, it required Kenobi, who is one of the greatest saber masters of his time, a ton of experience to finally defeat Grievous handily as of ROTS. I don't think Grievous is as terrible as most make him out to be, considering the trouble he gives jedi masters.

As for what Filoni said about Grievous, he depicted the exact opposite. However, he did depict Grievous as being a coward, running off when one gains an advantage over him, but that doesn't make him less threatening.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Actually, aside from no longer being a challenge for Dooku and Windu


Who said he's no longer a challenge for those 2? I mean sure with Tk in the picture he'd get crushed by either of those 2, but that was also true in the OCW and Eu.

Filoni didn't make Grievous coward. Lucas did ;



Filoni only followed the right code.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Who said he's no longer a challenge for those 2? I mean sure with Tk in the picture he'd get crushed by either of those 2, but that was also true in the OCW and Eu.


The fact that Dooku has far superior feats in regards to strict sabers. If you view exchanging a few blows as being a challenge then sure.

As for Windu, TCW didn't give us much from Windu other than some good TK feats, but unless we are talking about strict canon here, Mace is still a peer of Dooku. I was only suggesting that TCW didn't water Grievous down compared to his EU counterpart as most seem to think, as he's still depicted as being a challenge for jedi masters.

Originally posted by Q99
My feeling is that while Griev improved, so did Ventress. In the end I think she'd still have the small edge.
The difference is that after their duel, Grievous continued to train with Dooku, while Ventress went off and became a bounty hunter. Unlike Ventress, Grievous proceeded to attain the vast majority of his best feats after that fight.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
The difference is that after their duel, Grievous continued to train with Dooku, while Ventress went off and became a bounty hunter. Unlike Ventress, Grievous proceeded to attain the vast majority of his best feats after that fight.



So how do you stack up him getting stomped by Kenobi by ROTS? Do you see that as a vastly improved Kenobi or just a one-off?

Not arguing it one way or another, just curious on people's views.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
So how do you stack up him getting stomped by Kenobi by ROTS? Do you see that as a vastly improved Kenobi or just a one-off?

Not arguing it one way or another, just curious on people's views.
Considering that he was overwhelming Obi-wan's defenses before Kenobi reduced his arm count, and that even with two arms Grievous was still driving Kenobi back, I wouldn't exactly call that a stomp.

But yes, I do think Kenobi improved throughout the Clone Wars as well.

Actually, there is a quote stating that Obi-Wan became a master of Soresu, which surprised Dooku, who knows him well. This indicates improvement and superior skill with Soresu to me.


"- and this image, this plan, was so clear in Dooku's mind that he almost failed to notice that Kenobi met every one of his thrusts without so much as moving his feet, staying perfectly centered, perfectly balanced, blade never moving a millimeter more than necessary, deflecting without effort, riposting with flickering strikes and stabs swifter than the tongue of a Garollian ghost viper, and when Dooku felt Skywalker regain his feet and stride once more toward his back, he finally registered the source of that blinding defensive velocity Kenobi had used a moment ago, and only then, belatedly, did he understand that Kenobi's Ataro and Shii-Cho had been ploys, as well.

Kenobi had become a master of Soresu."

-- Revenge of the Sith

Yeah but that whole passage has been pretty much rendered non-canon by TCW. I mean to think now that Dooku didn't know Skywalker's fencing style is just silly.

Also TCW season 5/6 are supposed to be close to ROTS time wise. So I'm not sure how much people expected him to have improved in that period, especially given his best feat to date is still stalemating/defeating Maul and Opress which was TCW Season 5.

Ventress could outsmart either of them. I feel like because Savage and Grievous have newer feats (chronologically story-wise), people are choosing to go with them.

This would be a tough fight though and anybody could potentially win.

Grievous has to take the last wins though. Always hated the idea of cyborgs or other non - force sensitives being able to take the more powerful Jedi/Sith when they unleash their full power set. Mainly Tk.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yeah but that whole passage has been pretty much rendered non-canon by TCW. I mean to think now that Dooku didn't know Skywalker's fencing style is just silly.

Also TCW season 5/6 are supposed to be close to ROTS time wise. So I'm not sure how much people expected him to have improved in that period, especially given his best feat to date is still stalemating/defeating Maul and Opress which was TCW Season 5.

When was it stated that Dooku didn't know Anakin's fencing style? The passage I posted says nothing about that. And last I recall, S5 takes place 1 year before Rots. I think there should be enough room for improvement.

Originally posted by Nargaroth
When was it stated that Dooku didn't know Anakin's fencing style? The passage I posted says nothing about that. And last I recall, S5 takes place 1 year before Rots. I think there should be enough room for improvement.

In that same chapter of the ROTS novel, Dooku is surprised to find out Anakin utilizes Djem So. Which is ridiculous.

Plus Dooku's fought both Anakin and Obi-Wan in Season 6, not 5.

So the whole passage in ROTS where the duo are "faking forms" and Dooku has no clue to what their actual form is, and is surprised and shocked to see their "true" forms in action, has no relevance anymore really.

You could apply it solely towards Obi-Wan if you like, since Kenobi seemed to be on the offense in their Season 6 battle, but to me it's clear that whole passage has no relevance anymore.