Spiderman vs Nightcrawler

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Placidity
Spiderman vs Nightcrawler


Equipment/Weapons
- Nightcrawler gets 2 Swords

Environment
- Large indoors hall

h1a8
Spidey will use the SS to determine the exact time and place NC will teleport. Then it's lights out.

Placidity
^ I didnt know he could do that with SS...

Plus, NC can teleport multiple times in a second.

Even without teleportation, NC is just as fast as SM, AND he has 2 swords.

Something to consider...

Well, I'm still happy one person replied to this thread ^^

h1a8
Originally posted by Placidity
^ I didnt know he could do that with SS...

Plus, NC can teleport multiple times in a second.

Even without teleportation, NC is just as fast as SM, AND he has 2 swords.

Something to consider...

Well, I'm still happy one person replied to this thread ^^

NC is just as agile (maybe slightly more) but never just as fast. And what is a second to someone who can see bullets in slow motion. The SS prevents Spidey from ever getting hit. This is because it both warns him and guides him before the attack is even launched. Thus it is impossible for NC to even touch Spidey (even if he is just as fast).

Placidity
Originally posted by h1a8
NC is just as agile (maybe slightly more) but never just as fast. And what is a second to someone who can see bullets in slow motion. The SS prevents Spidey from ever getting hit. This is because it both warns him and guides him before the attack is even launched. Thus it is impossible for NC to even touch Spidey (even if he is just as fast).

Do you have any scans that show SM sees bullets in slow motion?

I don't think anyone knows exactly how SS works, but I do know that saying SS never allows SM to ever get hit is grossly incorrect, or do you need scans showing you how many times in his comic history that he has been hit?

Not to mention, NC teleports to another dimension before coming back, so its quite possible that SS won't be that effective. But thats just my speculation.

I don't know why you think NC is not as fast as Spidey...

Anyway, here are some speed feats of NC

NC teleporting in and out to save someone from being shot, after the shots are fired.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e324/MightyEinherjar/Nightcrawler/xmenunlimited4reflex.gif

You're gonna love these ones...
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l130/Red_Atom/Nightcrawler/sp1615.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l130/Red_Atom/Nightcrawler/sp1616.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l130/Red_Atom/Nightcrawler/sp1617.jpg

Scans shows a few things.

* SS cannot always save him from being hit.
* NC is fast enough to hit him
* SS will not neutralize teleportation blitz
* NC is strong enough to hurt spidey
* NC can tolerate a few punches from Spidey

and most importantly,
this match is NOT a curbstomp like you imply.

deadspeak25
kinda leaning towards NC on this one.

Doctor-Alvis
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=294057
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=444888

Placidity
^ oh yea? well, well , well...this one has a poll!

golem370
Another time when they encountered one another. Scans don't work look in Respect Spider-Man thread look under battles.


Spider-Man vs X-Men
http://img317.imageshack.us/my.php?...deyxmen11kx.jpg
http://img379.imageshack.us/my.php?...deyxmen27do.jpg
http://img379.imageshack.us/my.php?...deyxmen35so.jpg

h1a8
Originally posted by Placidity
Do you have any scans that show SM sees bullets in slow motion?

I don't think anyone knows exactly how SS works, but I do know that saying SS never allows SM to ever get hit is grossly incorrect, or do you need scans showing you how many times in his comic history that he has been hit?

Not to mention, NC teleports to another dimension before coming back, so its quite possible that SS won't be that effective. But thats just my speculation.

I don't know why you think NC is not as fast as Spidey...

Anyway, here are some speed feats of NC

NC teleporting in and out to save someone from being shot, after the shots are fired.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e324/MightyEinherjar/Nightcrawler/xmenunlimited4reflex.gif

You're gonna love these ones...
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l130/Red_Atom/Nightcrawler/sp1615.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l130/Red_Atom/Nightcrawler/sp1616.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l130/Red_Atom/Nightcrawler/sp1617.jpg

Scans shows a few things.

* SS cannot always save him from being hit.
* NC is fast enough to hit him
* SS will not neutralize teleportation blitz
* NC is strong enough to hurt spidey
* NC can tolerate a few punches from Spidey

and most importantly,
this match is NOT a curbstomp like you imply.

Sorry but actual fights hold no water if they contradict the truth.
Spidey has SS. This alone makes it impossible for NC to even touch him. So please, no more battle scans that show things that can't happen.

Only true SM fans know how his SS works. It warns him before the attack is even thrown and also guides him to the way of safety.
It also sometimes jerk his body (without his knowledge) out of the way of danger. The more deadly the attack the more stronger his SS acts. That is why Spidey can dodge multiple lasers that are homed to him easily.

And SM has before fought beings that can teleport or were very fast. He used the SS to determine the location they will be in in X time. He did this same tactic to web CA's bouncing shield.

And it doesn't matter how many times SM has gotten hit for they were all low showings. And low showings are against the rules of a character fighting at their best. Defn: A showing is a low showing if many higher ones exists. Spidey dodging bullets and lasers many times are higher than him getting hit by NC's attacks.

NC's durability is not even peak human. Spidey will punch a hole in his furry butt (if Spidey was fighting to kill that is).

Doctor-Alvis
Spidey's spider sense's effectiveness is questionable against teleporting. I believe the Spot's attacks are harder for Spidey to dodge because they come from another dimension, via the spots, and don't trigger his spider sense because of that. And that is exactly how Nightcrawler teleports.

Still, there's the point of Spider-man dodged that bullet when it was like 6 inches from his body. That's powerful fast.

h1a8
Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
Spidey's spider sense's effectiveness is questionable against teleporting. I believe the Spot's attacks are harder for Spidey to dodge because they come from another dimension, via the spots, and don't trigger his spider sense because of that. And that is exactly how Nightcrawler teleports.

Still, there's the point of Spider-man dodged that bullet when it was like 6 inches from his body. That's powerful fast.

SM had used his SS to know where spot was when he was teleporting and he used it to beat him to the punch. Remember?

Also you make a good point about Spidey dodging a bullet from several inches away. I consider bullets faster than a NC attack (after he materializes).

Doctor-Alvis
Originally posted by h1a8
SM had used his SS to know where spot was when he was teleporting and he used it to beat him to the punch. Remember?
Umm... no, didn't Spot use too many of his spots or something?


Is it enough though? Probably not. Everyone dodges bullets. Not always from that close, but still.

BUSTER1
Originally posted by h1a8
Sorry but actual fights hold no water if they contradict the truth.
Spidey has SS. This alone makes it impossible for NC to even touch him. So please, no more battle scans that show things that can't happen.

Only true SM fans know how his SS works. It warns him before the attack is even thrown and also guides him to the way of safety.
It also sometimes jerk his body (without his knowledge) out of the way of danger. The more deadly the attack the more stronger his SS acts. That is why Spidey can dodge multiple lasers that are homed to him easily.

And SM has before fought beings that can teleport or were very fast. He used the SS to determine the location they will be in in X time. He did this same tactic to web CA's bouncing shield.

And it doesn't matter how many times SM has gotten hit for they were all low showings. And low showings are against the rules of a character fighting at their best. Defn: A showing is a low showing if many higher ones exists. Spidey dodging bullets and lasers many times are higher than him getting hit by NC's attacks.

NC's durability is not even peak human. Spidey will punch a hole in his furry butt (if Spidey was fighting to kill that is).

You're absolutely right -In the 2nd episode of the story you took those scans from Spiderman gets beaten up and knocked out by 2 of Jigswaw's cheap thugs. (Something I mentioined in the Spiderman vs Captain America H2H thread several times) Whoever wrote that story clearly knew nothing about Spiderman or was just determined to make him look bad.

Placidity
Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis

Is it enough though? Probably not. Everyone dodges bullets. Not always from that close, but still.

Exactly, its pretty much the standard way used in alot of comics to show how agile a character is (sometimes even beyond the character's abilities).

I mean if someone can dodge a bullet (e.g NC), even though its not from as close as SM, they should be able to have a fair fight. Saying how NC won't even be able to touch him isn't right.

Placidity
Originally posted by h1a8
Sorry but actual fights hold no water if they contradict the truth.


That statement doesn't even makes sense in the context that you're trying to use it. "Contradict the truth"... What truth? The predetermined truth that you've already set that NC can't even touch SM? and therefore any other evidence is a contradiction to your truth?

Wrong, the truth is evidence, and evidence is taken from the comics, not because someone says so.


Originally posted by h1a8
Spidey has SS. This alone makes it impossible for NC to even touch him. So please, no more battle scans that show things that can't happen.



Uh huh, NC can't touch SM. It can't happen because you said so (see above).



Originally posted by h1a8

Only true SM fans know how his SS works. It warns him before the attack is even thrown and also guides him to the way of safety.
It also sometimes jerk his body (without his knowledge) out of the way of danger. The more deadly the attack the more stronger his SS acts. That is why Spidey can dodge multiple lasers that are homed to him easily.


lol, "only true SM fans".... Yer, everyone already knows about what you posted up. That's explaining "what" the SS does, no one knows exactly "how" it works. See the difference?


Originally posted by h1a8


And it doesn't matter how many times SM has gotten hit for they were all low showings. And low showings are against the rules of a character fighting at their best. Defn: A showing is a low showing if many higher ones exists. Spidey dodging bullets and lasers many times are higher than him getting hit by NC's attacks.


So pretty much Spiderman being hit is a "low showing"? He gets hit regularly lol. NC can dodge bullets aswell, but I don't think you want to take that into account... talk about "low showing". If anything, NC would be the one better at "not getting hit".



Proof please. And what did you not understand about how NC travels into another dimension?

Apolloknight
Originally posted by h1a8
Sorry but actual fights hold no water if they contradict the truth.
Spidey has SS. This alone makes it impossible for NC to even touch him. So please, no more battle scans that show things that can't happen.

Only true SM fans know how his SS works. It warns him before the attack is even thrown and also guides him to the way of safety.
It also sometimes jerk his body (without his knowledge) out of the way of danger. The more deadly the attack the more stronger his SS acts. That is why Spidey can dodge multiple lasers that are homed to him easily.

And SM has before fought beings that can teleport or were very fast. He used the SS to determine the location they will be in in X time. He did this same tactic to web CA's bouncing shield.

And it doesn't matter how many times SM has gotten hit for they were all low showings. And low showings are against the rules of a character fighting at their best. Defn: A showing is a low showing if many higher ones exists. Spidey dodging bullets and lasers many times are higher than him getting hit by NC's attacks.

NC's durability is not even peak human. Spidey will punch a hole in his furry butt (if Spidey was fighting to kill that is).


lookaround

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Apolloknight
lookaround

lmao ...hilarious.

h1a8
Originally posted by Placidity
That statement doesn't even makes sense in the context that you're trying to use it. "Contradict the truth"... What truth? The predetermined truth that you've already set that NC can't even touch SM? and therefore any other evidence is a contradiction to your truth?
The truth is definitely taken not only from the comics but from writer's opinions, official power set, and official bios. The truth is that Spidey can dodge bullets before or after they are fired. This is the truth. Not my truth but thee truth. With that truth says that NC can't touch him.
But guess what? The truth is still the truth regardless of who says it.




It can't happen because it is the truth. Me saying so is of no consequence.



Doesn't matter how it works. As long as it warns before the attack is launched and guides Spidey to safety then he shouldn't get hit by NC period.



Doesn't matter if Spidey gets hit a billion trillon times, they are still low showings by definition (because higher ones exist). A character fighting to his best abilities is the rules.


And spot also travels to another dimension. Yet SM used his SS to pop him when he was teleporting. The thing is this is moot anyway. Why? Because when NC materializes he will try to hit Spidey. And the SS will then warn Spidey. If Spidey can dodge bullets from inches away then he can dodge NC when he tries to attack Spidey after materialization.

Placidity
Originally posted by h1a8
The truth is definitely taken not only from the comics but from writer's opinions, official power set, and official bios. The truth is that Spidey can dodge bullets before or after they are fired. This is the truth. Not my truth but thee truth. With that truth says that NC can't touch him.
But guess what? The truth is still the truth regardless of who says it.


Ok, I get what you are saying now. But NC has been shown that he is fast enought to dodge bullets aswell. With this feat in mind, he should be able to at least "touch" spiderman irregardless of whether he wins or not.

h1a8
Originally posted by Placidity
Ok, I get what you are saying now. But NC has been shown that he is fast enought to dodge bullets aswell. With this feat in mind, he should be able to at least "touch" spiderman irregardless of whether he wins or not.

One only has to be 1/10 as fast as a bullet in order to dodge it from 10ft away. Specifically, one must cover 1ft in the same time the bullet covers 10ft. So NC isn't as fast as a bullet because he dodged them. But if he were then he still couldn't touch Spidey. This is because the SS will warn him even before NC begins to stretch out his hand to try to touch Spidey. Remember, Spidey dodges lasers (speed of light) by moving away before the beam is even fired. He uses his SS to do this.

Lord Feron
Okay wiull since we are all saying Spiderman and NC fight to the best of the abilities. NC grabs SM because he can and Teleports pete's head off. GAme over!!! MUHAHAHA

h1a8
Originally posted by Lord Feron
Okay wiull since we are all saying Spiderman and NC fight to the best of the abilities. NC grabs SM because he can and Teleports pete's head off. GAme over!!! MUHAHAHA

NC can't touch Spidey remember.

redhotrash
"irregardless" isnt a word, just stick to "regardless".
Anyway, the spider-sense is one of those powers that really fluxuated between writers. At times hes fallen for boobytraps laid by the Punisher or jumped by DareDevil. Thats said, this is a close fight. It comes down to Teleport vs SS vs Reflexes vs Strength. Lets assume NC can teleport into proximity of Spider-man at the exact speed his SS triggers. That means Spidey would have to locate Kurt, change his position, and counter/attack him. It sounds like a lot but I suppose its possible. This leads to wheter or not he can avoid the attack and be able to take out NC with a single blow before hes able to teleport again. THAT is where I think NC has the advantage. Even if he isnt using his swords to full effect (he isnt bloodlusted in this fight so he wouldnt) being smacked with the blunt edge of a sword isnt fun. So the longer the fight goes and the more rapidly NC teleports, the more in his favor it goes. Nightcrawler is no slouch in the agility department himself, so I think he would likely take about 6/10 of the fights.

h1a8
Originally posted by redhotrash
"irregardless" isnt a word, just stick to "regardless".
Anyway, the spider-sense is one of those powers that really fluxuated between writers. At times hes fallen for boobytraps laid by the Punisher or jumped by DareDevil. Thats said, this is a close fight. It comes down to Teleport vs SS vs Reflexes vs Strength. Lets assume NC can teleport into proximity of Spider-man at the exact speed his SS triggers. That means Spidey would have to locate Kurt, change his position, and counter/attack him. It sounds like a lot but I suppose its possible. This leads to wheter or not he can avoid the attack and be able to take out NC with a single blow before hes able to teleport again. THAT is where I think NC has the advantage. Even if he isnt using his swords to full effect (he isnt bloodlusted in this fight so he wouldnt) being smacked with the blunt edge of a sword isnt fun. So the longer the fight goes and the more rapidly NC teleports, the more in his favor it goes. Nightcrawler is no slouch in the agility department himself, so I think he would likely take about 6/10 of the fights.

low showings aren't valid here. So Spidey won't be falling into any booby traps here. Spidey can dodge a bullet from inches away. Also it is speculatic that the SS can't detect where and when NC will teleport. Spidey used SS to hit Spot when he was teleporting. NC is not touching him at all.

Scoobless
Meh, Spider-Man FTW.

Acrosurge
Nightcrawler's teleport tactics have been easily countered by Wolverine. Spider-Man can do the same with equal or better ability, thanks to his Spider-Sense.

NC is agile, but Spider-Man edges him out in that category too, IMO, and strength is a no contest. There is too much for Kurt to overcome here. Spider-Man takes a majority.

redhotrash
You mean "speculative". Also Spidey has been tagged by lots of people who dont have the tools Nightcrawler has. Fancy Frigging Dan of the Enforcers has connected with Spidey before. So has the Vulture, Kraven, Black Cat, and lots of other people without the credentials of Nightcrawler. The added use of swords makes what wouldve been an irritating punch into a potentially lethal or knockout blow.
Another way to think about it, in a straight up fight, no teleporting, Nightcrawler should be able to make at least a decent showing against Spidey. His teleportation powers should give him a real edge.

Lord Feron
Originally posted by h1a8
NC can't touch Spidey remember.

I don't remember a event that has yet to happen NC not ever touching SM... because he errr... kinda already smacked him in the face a bit so yeah i would consider that touching... ANyway NC wins due to tactical advantage but, this fight will never be written in comic books as NC as victor because
A. SM is a bigger celeb
B. If NC started doing this as a routine move he would be too amazing.
C. NC really not that type of guy who would do that usually.

But in KMC where Characters fight to the best of their ability. I not going to continue on saying NC vs Supes and he will just teleport of his head. Im just saying in this scenario it may be a likely move used by NC. If he didn't do that and it was a straight up fight. hmmm I got to think about it.

jinzin
Since their last fight, NC's gotten better with his teleportation, Spiderman has stayed the same thanks to OMD. lol.

Scoobless
Originally posted by jinzin
Since their last fight, NC's gotten better with his teleportation, Spiderman has stayed the same thanks to OMD. lol.

Yup, nothing like retconning 10 years of character growth to cripple a superhero and lose a quarter of his readers.

wink

I seriously still can't believe that they have him back living with his Aunt .... what a loser.

jinzin
Originally posted by Lord Feron
I don't remember a event that has yet to happen NC not ever touching SM... because he errr... kinda already smacked him in the face a bit so yeah i would consider that touching...

Well, we ARE talking about h1's Spiderman who:
Sees the world as a living statue.
Is actually stronger than the proportionate strength of a Spider has he's claimed all his existence.
Runs faster than a bullet.
Is REALLY 40 times faster than a human.
and has a Spider sense that actually works as precognition so he's seen everything comin his way since way before he was born.

This is of course the same Spiderman based off of his video games, MTV's animated show, and of course *snickers* "common sense"...








hysterical

jinzin
Originally posted by Scoobless
Yup, nothing like retconning 10 years of character growth to cripple a superhero and lose a quarter of his readers.

wink

I seriously still can't believe that they have him back living with his Aunt .... what a loser.

Lol agreed. I actually liked watching him grow up. he was really one of the only comic characters who went from childhood to adulthood... I can't believe they messed that up.

Metalmanx
Spidey wins the majority, but Nightcrawler puts up a good fight.

Raptor22
nightcrawler slight majority 6/10

Placidity
I rule.

Eternal Idol
Taking the scenario into consideration, Nightcrawler wins.

753
I think NC

Mindset
Still Spiderman.

cdtm
Originally posted by h1a8
Spidey will use the SS to determine the exact time and place NC will teleport. Then it's lights out.

Agreed.

The high end SS is hard to beat, considering it tells the direction, and intensity of the attack..

It even warned him off against disease once...

colossulrage
nightcrawler out classes spidey in every way besides strength and brains..so my vote nightcrawler

Mindset
Originally posted by colossulrage
nightcrawler out classes spidey in every way besides strength and brains..so my vote nightcrawler And speed, durability, and agility.

Flameback
With the scenario being indoors and Nightcrawler with two swords I go with him in this one. Now in a more open world scenerio I may go with Spidey. I believe the indoors would just be too much of a disadvantage for Spidey's strengths.

753
Teleportation is too much. SS offers a counter, but it's not 100%

TP also works for evasion and SS wouldnt even tingle when it's used without aggressive intention, so kurt can avoid SM better than SM can avoid kurt.

The swords, even when used in less than lethal ways, render SM's durabilty a moot point and their reflexes are roughly comparable.

sharky137
It kind of seems hard to believe that pete would have problems with kurt. hell he fought and beat firelord. he was terrified during that battle and he completly went of on a herald of galactus and beat him. Even captain america commented on how firelord could not lay a glove on him. I don`t think wagner is as fast or as strong as spidey. It all depends on whether peter`s head is "in the game".

KingD19
Originally posted by sharky137
It kind of seems hard to believe that pete would have problems with kurt. hell he fought and beat firelord. he was terrified during that battle and he completly went of on a herald of galactus and beat him. Even captain america commented on how firelord could not lay a glove on him. I don`t think wagner is as fast or as strong as spidey. It all depends on whether peter`s head is "in the game".

Except Kurt(who didn't want to fight) already slugged it out with Spidey and did pretty good for himself.

And you know as well as anyone else that that fight was BS.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by jinzin
Since their last fight, NC's gotten better with his teleportation, Spiderman has stayed the same thanks to OMD. lol.

thumb up

Parmaniac
Originally posted by Mindset
And speed, durability, and agility. yeah but everything else

753
Originally posted by sharky137
It kind of seems hard to believe that pete would have problems with kurt. hell he fought and beat firelord. he was terrified during that battle and he completly went of on a herald of galactus and beat him. Even captain america commented on how firelord could not lay a glove on him. I don`t think wagner is as fast or as strong as spidey. It all depends on whether peter`s head is "in the game".

you cannot be serious about firelord

Mindset
Originally posted by KingD19
Except Kurt(who didn't want to fight) already slugged it out with Spidey and did pretty good for himself.

And you know as well as anyone else that that fight was BS. Spiderman didn't want to fight either.

Mshinu
Kurt makes the Spider bleed and pass out.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by Mshinu
Kurt makes the Spider bleed and pass out. Spider-man hits his head till he speaks proper german.

SamZED
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Spider-man hits his head till he speaks proper german. laughing thumb up I always wondered - is it so hard to find someone who can speak foreign languages properly? I wanna throw up every time Colossus says something in russian or comes up with an "old russian saying" that wouldnt even make sense in russian. I bet same works for Kurt's german.


PS: Spider-man can sense Kurt's teleportations even if they're not attacks. And he's dodged teleporters before. They werent as fast as Kurt but one of them had a gun. Makes it even harder.

753
Originally posted by SamZED
laughing thumb up I always wondered - is it so hard to find someone who can speak foreign languages properly? I wanna throw up every time Colossus says something in russian or comes up with an "old russian saying" that wouldnt even make sense in russian. I bet same works for Kurt's german.


PS: Spider-man can sense Kurt's teleportations even if they're not attacks. And he's dodged teleporters before. They werent as fast as Kurt but one of them had a gun. Makes it even harder.

I think they have computer programs translate sentences for them. All french, spanish and portuguese ones I've seen were also full of mistakes or simply didnt make sense, although spanish usually does a little better than the others.

SS woul be able to predict the point in space where kurt would teleport to, if it wasn't an attack? I'm skeptical. Even anticipating an evasive, non agressive TP seems out of SS usual showings.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by 753
SS woul be able to predict the point in space where kurt would teleport to, if it wasn't an attack? I'm skeptical. Even anticipating an evasive, non agressive TP seems out of SS usual showings. What advantage would kurt get by that?

753
Originally posted by Parmaniac
What advantage would kurt get by that?

A defensive one, it's easier for him to avoid getting tagged than it is for SM, specially because they have roughly similar reaction times.

Batroc
Originally posted by KingD19
Except Kurt(who didn't want to fight) already slugged it out with Spidey and did pretty good for himself.

And you know as well as anyone else that that fight was BS.

But wasn't that early Spidey/Nightcrawler fight during the time when Nightcrawler was generally shown to have superhuman strength (i.e. during Cockrum's first X-Men run)? If so, it makes sense that Spidey would feel his blows. After this his enhanced strength was forgotten about, he never seemed more than regular human, unless he has strength feats I don't know about.

Anyway, in this scenario I give 5/10 for both.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by 753
A defensive one, it's easier for him to avoid getting tagged than it is for SM, specially because they have roughly similar reaction times. He wouldn't know the exact point but there are examples (recently) where he can estimate how far he is away.

proof from Amazing Spider-man V1 594
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9149/spidersensedifferentlev.th.jpghttp://img191.imageshack.us/img191/1900/spidersense2asmv1594.th.jpg

but of course the whole SS fluctuates

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