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Strongest Flash, Barry or Wally not sure who has the best feats.

Fight 1 The Runner without his space gem
Fight 2 with his space gem

If its rape for the runner its both Barry and Wally vs him.

Runner

The first one, I don't know.

The second one, the Runner have owned Thanos in his second most humilious defeat ever. So I say the Runner

KC Flash vs Runner with SG would be cool, though I think Flash would win.

Runner by far. He humiliated Surfer, and can stand up to Thanos.

Flash wins the first one.

The second one I'm not sure about.

runner in both cases.

the runner doesn't need the space gem, he stated that it transported him anywhere he was planing to go to instantaneously with out willing it. it didn't influence his speed at all.

and the golden cosmic glaze that is the runner's skin is on par if not stronger than the silver surfer's.

plus the runner has the ability to make a beings like him just by being in his presents, even a blood lusted opponent loses their rage steadily just by being near him.

so the runner is:
-as fast as the surfer (even in space)
-as durable
-more powerful (at the time they fought)
-totally immortal
-causes opponents to not want to fight him

He has like three feats?

And explain to me what evidence leads you to believe that he is as durable as surfer.

And he may be remarkably long lived, but the time gem showed that he is not immortal.

However, the making others not want to fight him thing is what would probably make him win this.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
runner in both cases.

the runner doesn't need the space gem, he stated that it transported him anywhere he was planing to go to instantaneously with out willing it. it didn't influence his speed at all.

and the golden cosmic glaze that is the runner's skin is on par if not stronger than the silver surfer's.

plus the runner has the ability to make a beings like him just by being in his presents, even a blood lusted opponent loses their rage steadily just by being near him.

so the runner is:
-as fast as the surfer (even in space)
-as durable
-more powerful (at the time they fought)
-totally immortal
-causes opponents to not want to fight him

All this is true except the totally imortal part. His durability is at least on par with Surfers for being able to travel just as fast thru deep space and thanks to the big bang energies of the Power Primordial.

Originally posted by Sirius77
He has like three feats?

And explain to me what evidence leads you to believe that he is as durable as surfer.

And he may be remarkably long lived, but the time gem showed that he is not immortal.

However, the making others not want to fight him thing is what would probably make him win this.

The Runner is immortal he is 5 billions years old. Since curse by Death he can't die at all, The Runner is class 100 in strength, has energy projection that can blow up a planet, runs at warp-speed, indestructible, has great fighting ability. Both cases The Runner wins he will put Flash in a Coma.

1)well, he lacks a title of his own and his emotion powers kind of make him the worst choice for a main villain. plus he is a baby now remember

2)the runner was introduced as surfer's superior in his first showing.
plus galactus gave the surfer the silver cosmic glaze to withstand micro-meteors and other space hazards that ftl speeds create.
the writers gave the runner a golden one to symbolize his superior power (gold >silver get it). maybe galactus encountered the the runner before he created the surfer as the elders were battling him for millions if not billions of years.

3) he is immortal in the sense that his spirit is immortal, his body will age but over time he will notice the change and simply make himself look young again with his matter manipulation.

plus death barred the elders from her realm so he can't die, period.
he can only go to oblivion's realm, the realm of the nullified.

4)yup, the only one that power didn't fully work on was thanos because he lacks pleasure centers in his brain. his brother eros has a similar power and throughout their lives it has never worked on thanos.

Originally posted by the Darkone
The Runner is immortal he is 5 billions years old. Since curse by Death he can't die at all, The Runner is class 100 in strength, has energy projection that can blow up a planet, runs at warp-speed, indestructible, has great fighting ability. Both cases The Runner wins he will put Flash in a Coma.

He is not immortal. Thanos with the time gem aged him into an old man in the matter of a page.

Class 100 strength? Did you read that in a bio? Show me scans.

He's blown up a planet? Scans.

Great fighting ability? His presence makes people not want to fight

runner

again, his spirit is immortal.

the contemplator's head was torn off by reptyl prime but his spirit lived on regardless, he is now a cosmic ghost.

Originally posted by Sundipped
All this is true except the totally imortal part. His durability is at least on par with Surfers for being able to travel just as fast thru deep space and thanks to the big bang energies of the Power Primordial. thanos aged his body trillions of years in the span of a moment, but his spirit is still immortal. he can always matter manipulate his molecules to look whatever physical age he wants to be.

and the grandmaster cheated in a game with death so that she would bar the elders from her realm forever(it was his origional plan).

the runner was consumed by galactus in the elders effort to destroy him, the elders including the runner survived in the "stomach" of galactus until freed.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
1)well, he lacks a title of his own and his emotion powers kind of make him the worst choice for a main villain. plus he is a baby now remember

I see what you're saying, friend. But he has very few feats that truly judge his powerlevels imo, and has only made like three apearences.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
2)the runner was introduced as surfer's superior in his first showing.
plus galactus gave the surfer the silver cosmic glaze to withstand micro-meteors and other space hazards that ftl speeds create.
the writers gave the runner a golden one to symbolize his superior power (gold >silver get it). maybe galactus encountered the the runner before he created the surfer as the elders were battling him for millions if not billions of years.

He was introduced as someone that made surfer not want to fight, and out speeded him.

I understand the gold>silver thing, and that may be true regarding currency, but that doesnt mean that gold from the metal men can beat surfer. It's an opinion. A good, plausible opinion. But an opinion nonetheless. I dont doubt that they look the same, but that doesnt mean that they are.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
3) he is immortal in the sense that his spirit is immortal, his body will age but over time he will notice the change and simply make himself look young again with his matter manipulation.

plus death barred the elders from her realm so he can't die, period.
he can only go to oblivion's realm, the realm of the nullified.

I see what your saying, but isnt nullification death?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
4)yup, the only one that power didn't fully work on was thanos because he lacks pleasure centers in his brain. his brother eros has a similar power and throughout their lives it has never worked on thanos.

Interesting. I see your points, and I do agree that the runner would win this by default, as the Flash has pleasure centers in his brain.

about his power level-

the elders tap into the remnants of the energies of the big bang(sort of like galactus does), they originally wanted to kill galactus because he was the only being older than them and they believed that with him gone they could use the infinity gems to destroy and rebirth the universe with all of them granted a larger portion of the energies making them all galactuses. (if galactus was left alive they thought he would get a further power boost)

so in essence each elder is a mini galactus. their power is not only cosmic but linked to eternity.

and concerning nullification-

nullification is worst than death as death(in comics) isn't really the end of a being entirely, as they can be revived by magic, power cosmic, etc.

thor has journeyed to hela's realm to retrieve a soul and he was successful, all he had to do was go to hel, walk past garm the hell hound, journey across the bridge which takes 9 days no matter how fast or slow you travel, walk past the goddess of the gate, snatch the soul from hela, beat the goddess of the gate(she only prevents souls from leaving), go back across the bridge, beat garm(he too prevents souls from leaving) then get back to earth. see, dieing isn't that bad.

nullification is what happens when your atoms/soul is erased.

Zoom would be a better match for Runner.

This has been done many times before

OMG Flash is hideously overrated, what on earth makes people push for Flash against someone who humbled The Surfer? someone who nearly did the same to Thanos?

and neither of the above feats actually utilise the Space Gem, iirc, since he is (like the rest of his race) a bit stupid and incapable of operating the Gem consciously.


Runner wins this in a pico second.

come on, give Flash opponents he has a chance against, say Thor or Sentry or something.
Originally posted by Sirius77
He is not immortal. Thanos with the time gem aged him into an old man in the matter of a page.

ageing and mortality are not necessarily mutual.
like Banner in one story, he could just suffer the indignity of remaining decrepit for the rest of eternity, as his body remains indestructible yet weak.

Although there is a thread that exists similar to this one this is not a fist fight alone.

- Wally West vs The Runner -
----------------------------------

The 1st scenario is a race across the Universe and back. The length of this particular Universe spans 100 light years. There are two parts to this one though.

Part A. The Runner has the Space Gem.
Part B. The Runner does not have the Space Gem.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The 2nd scenario is a speed fight in which the Runner does not have the Space Gem. The fight is sanctioned on a desolate planet the size of the earth so that the gravity is the exact same as ours.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since the Runner does not require food to replenish spent energy, and the Flash does, Hank Pym (Giant Man) and The Atom have combined their size reduction physics (or whatever) to have nutrients pumped into the Flash's body as the race/battle unfolds ( to make this somewhat fair).

Forge has designed a device that allows Wally to breath in space.

Rules.
There is no outside help, and no extra Go Go gadgets allowed (other than what has been designed for Wally).

I believe that speed feats for both can be found in the Comic Book Character Respect Section, so please feel free to dive right in.



Once and for all who wins this?

This is KMC,
so Wally wins by default.

This came up in another thread. How does The Runner do against both flashes?

Loses to Wally.

Wins against Bart.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
This came up in another thread. How does The Runner do against both flashes? cosmic likability for the win. (a fight with the runner would be asinine)

the flashes will succumb to it, and end up buying the runner a beer.

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/1002/runnerthanos1.th.jpg http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/7473/runnerthanos4.th.jpg

I'm gonna go out on a limb, and say that his likability aura does not apply under forum rules. All combatants are trying to win and will use their full abilities. We've seen people attack Runner when they really wanted to attack him. Surfer being affected once is not an endorsement, because he wasn't fully committed to fighting him.

If it's in effect, he might have a shot. But if not, he can't beat either of them. They're both faster and more versatile than he is. And Speed-steal is a OHK against someone like him.

lulz

the guy can create thrust in space by running within his own energy trail, i don't even want to know what he could achieve with actual ground under him.

the likability effect is the same as the one starfox has, it's part of his powers and emanates from him seemingly at all times, you wouldn't say starfox can't use it now would you?

yeah, likeability is a "power" and should apply. what's runner's best feat sans the gem?

beating the surfer

Originally posted by psycho gundam
beating the surfer

really? i thought he had the gem when he did that? i was referring to his greatest SPEED feat though.

iirc they wer introduced later in the series.

and the runner could only tap into it subconsciously to teleport, his speed feats were all him.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
iirc they wer introduced later in the series.

and the runner could only tap into it subconsciously to teleport, his speed feats were all him.

to teleport? i thought he tapped it unconsciously to augment his natural abilities. in a race with makkari later, he lost. he would never have lost with the gem.

I think the runners best speed feat is running across galaxies in the time in took moondragon to scream or something like that.

Originally posted by leonidas
to teleport? i thought he tapped it unconsciously to augment his natural abilities. in a race with makkari later, he lost. he would never have lost with the gem. of coarse he wouldn't lose, the gem allowed him to travel instantaneously. he even said that he could be somewhere before he even started moving or something to that effect.

the race with makkari was a homage to barry allen flash since makkari had to become one with this force analogous to the speed force in order to beat the runner.

the drawback was that any being who utilized the technique would be forever trapped in it, which is why the runner never wanted to use it since it would go against his lust for total freedom. and he didn't use his gem as well.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I'm gonna go out on a limb, and say that his likability aura does not apply under forum rules. All combatants are trying to win and will use their full abilities. We've seen people attack Runner when they really wanted to attack him. Surfer being affected once is not an endorsement, because he wasn't fully committed to fighting him.

If it's in effect, he might have a shot. But if not, he can't beat either of them. They're both faster and more versatile than he is. And Speed-steal is a OHK against someone like him.

So the Flashes can steal his speed, but he cant use a power that he's been shown to use before?

Originally posted by Naija boy
I think the runners best speed feat is running across galaxies in the time in took moondragon to scream or something like that. Like when Superman heard Kyle yell for help from deep space in his sleep, and showed up a moment later?

facepalm it's always about superman...

Originally posted by psycho gundam
facepalm it's always about superman...



have you met juntai?

Originally posted by leonidas


have you met juntai?

:P
lol.


It's a matter of comparison. Superman would have trouble trying to keep pace with Wally and Bart at once. Yet he has comparable space-travel feats to the fastest characters out there. Similarly - Green Lantern.

Wally and Bart obviously don't run in space very often, so they don't have 'ran to another galaxy' feats, for a reason.

Originally posted by Juntai
:P
lol.


It's a matter of comparison. Superman would have trouble trying to keep pace with Wally and Bart at once. Yet he has comparable space-travel feats to the fastest characters out there. Similarly - Green Lantern.

Wally and Bart obviously don't run in space very often, so they don't have 'ran to another galaxy' feats, for a reason.

i've no doubt that flash would have those kinds of feats--and he has even better ones i think.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
facepalm it's always about superman...

He's not Super for nothing!

.

This is runner with space gem vs. Barry Allen with speed force.

runner wins, also theres a marvel speed force that him and makkari was tapping into

Barry Gets his shit canned but all the while admiring how cool runner is

Barry.

Elder

stalemate at the least in the runner's case. if he wants to be away from flash then he can instantly, no matter the distance and flash would have no way other than actively searching for him to locate him

Runner.

Yo.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
stalemate at the least in the runner's case.

agreed, since we have no idea wat it would be like if Barry actually tapped into the SF

Originally posted by psycho gundam
if he wants to be away from flash then he can instantly, no matter the distance and flash would have no way other than actively searching for him to locate him

IIRC the Runner was barely using the SG when he had it, so while thats a POTENTIAL MOVE for him, whether he'd actually pull that off AND it being effective w/somebody as fast as SF-generating Barry is still debateable.




Tazer

the elders had them for a short time between when thanos last owned them and after thanos quest, but he at least can subconsciously teleport when he needs to instinctively i presume even though his training/experience is lacking.

grandmaster only gave that one to him cause he knew that nobody would be able to get it from him if he was in danger cause he could just escape effortlessly.

he said sometimes he arrives before he even thinks about moving or some-such, so he has done it in some fraction of his normal travel.

Sorry I meant to put up sceniaros
1:Who is faster
2:Who would win in a fight

Also could barry just completely drain runners speed?

The Runner would win. Superior in Every way except maybe Speed. But with the gem he doesn't need speed when he'd be using his own speed plus teleportation. It would be like fighting Night Crawler with Flash level Speed. And the Runner is as strong as Superman and as dense as Thanos. And he's got energy powers.

Originally posted by lightyeargee
And the Runner is as strong as Superman and as dense as Thanos. i wouldn't go that far

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i wouldn't go that far I do believe he is. He seemed to be physically Superior to Surfer and I don't see anyone being stronge than Surfer but types like Thor, Superman, Hulk. etc. And he moves so fast. Faster than Surfer. You'd have to be way dense in order to move that fast and not die from the tremendous pressures.

If this is avatar of speed force Barry, he wins.

Pre-Crisis Barry would give Runner a fight. He did run circles around PC Superman, who can travel the multiverse in moments.

Originally posted by lightyeargee
I do believe he is. He seemed to be physically Superior to Surfer and I don't see anyone being stronge than Surfer but types like Thor, Superman, Hulk. etc. And he moves so fast. Faster than Surfer. You'd have to be way dense in order to move that fast and not die from the tremendous pressures.

Going by their fight, Runner is only a few steps beyond Surfer. Thanos pretty much treated Surfer like an insect.

runner vs thanos (for those who missed it)

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/VoltronForce/runnerthanos1.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/VoltronForce/runnerthanos2.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/VoltronForce/runnerthanos3.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/VoltronForce/runnerthanos4.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/VoltronForce/runnerthanos5.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/VoltronForce/runnerthanos6.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/VoltronForce/runnerthanos7.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/VoltronForce/runnerthanos8.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/VoltronForce/runnerthanos9.jpg

No jobbing. All out fight. Who wins?

I can tell you beforehand that this match will be a mess due to the Runner's lack of feats, especially without the space gem.

Wally steals his speed and/or IMPs him down.

Runner with little difficulty

Runner wins.

Runner 10/10

barry allen already outran runner

Originally posted by MrMind
barry allen already outran runner Nope

Originally posted by MrMind
barry allen already outran runner That's flat out incorrect.

it was buried alien

---------------------------------------------------

runner without the space gem

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/9703/defenders14315.jpg

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/439/defenders14316.jpg

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/2539/defenders14317.jpg

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/8943/defenders14318.jpg

Wally could beat him. As far as I'm aware he is the fastest of the flashes and considering that the Speed Force is the ultimate measure of velocity in DC and of the Flashes Wally traverses the speed force barrier most often enough for it not to be called a PIS device for him. If he breaks the speed force barrier he beats Runner as there is no equivalent that I'm aware of in Marvel. The speed force barrier is above light time and dimensional barriers in DC so... I don't see how Runner can take this. Also Speed Steal is pretty much an instant loss for him.

Originally posted by Uriel005
Wally could beat him. As far as I'm aware he is the fastest of the flashes and considering that the Speed Force is the ultimate measure of velocity in DC and of the Flashes Wally traverses the speed force barrier most often enough for it not to be called a PIS device for him. If he breaks the speed force barrier he beats Runner as there is no equivalent that I'm aware of in Marvel. The speed force barrier is above light time and dimensional barriers in DC so... I don't see how Runner can take this. Also Speed Steal is pretty much an instant loss for him. http://i46.tinypic.com/24qmv12.gif

Your denial doesnt make it any less true.

http://i48.tinypic.com/2q1t478.gif

tomcat>>>> your argument Mindset

Your mom + me.

http://i46.tinypic.com/rm41l2.jpg

ewww. enjoy ur herpes.

http://i50.tinypic.com/qqtjbk.jpg

Originally posted by Uriel005
ewww. enjoy ur herpes.

Originally posted by Uriel005
ewww. enjoy ur herpes.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
it was buried alien

---------------------------------------------------

runner without the space gem

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/9703/defenders14315.jpg

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/439/defenders14316.jpg

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/2539/defenders14317.jpg

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/8943/defenders14318.jpg


Originally posted by Uriel005
ewww. enjoy ur herpes.
lol youpi

bump

PC Barry owns all.

I just realize OP said strongest Flash. Speed force Barry, Wally/Krakl, or many others ftw.

Wally strongest overall. In comparison to the other flashes regularly breaks the speed force barrier too often for it to be PIS. Him failing against Zoom is more CIS PIS than anything else at this point to stop him from being an unbeatable character.