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Apparently Bowser>Ganon, I disagree however.

HA! This is kinda funny. Who said Bowser>Ganon?

Me.
Call me when Ganon can survive being thrown intoa star or can shake planetoids by just jumping.

You should be telling people to call you, afterall your the one who said it not the person "me" whoever "me" is......thats trying to aly the blame off someone else

I agree.

Bowser in a stomp.

this thread already exsists.

I checked, and I didn't see one that was strictly Bowser vs. Ganon. Closest was Giga Bowser, which kind of fell apart due to silly timeline arguments and presumptions of Ganon's weight.

mmm nevermind then.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Me.
Call me when Ganon can survive being thrown intoa star or can shake planetoids by just jumping.

And yet Mario punching Bowser seems to be capable on putting him in his place three times in that game. Ganon holds the Triforce of Power and is vastly stronger then Mario and there is nothing Bowser can do that can even phase Ganon.

Mario can easily throw castles and race around blackholes....
Getting hit by him is nothing to laugh at.



Show me a single strength feat of Ganon matching what Mario has done.



No Limits Fallacy.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Mario can easily throw castles and race around blackholes....
Getting hit by him is nothing to laugh at.
Show me a single strength feat of Ganon matching what Mario has done.
No Limits Fallacy.

Well to begin with Ganon destroyed a castle (twice once in OoT after being beaten to an inch of his life by Link and again in TP as a result of fighting a fully powered Fused Shadow Midna after Ganon had just been defeated by Link twice), with but a punch he killed one of the six sages after he broken the chains that kept his bound with a sword of pure energy or light pierced through him, the goddesses themselves had to intervene to stop Ganon in the WW, and as for Mario running around the black holes, that's a result of the gravitational pull on the planetoids he's on because we see him easily get sucked in by the black holes.

Ganon is vastly superior to Mario and Bowser with or without the Triforce of Power and again Bowser has no power that could even scratch Ganon. We see Ganon get hit at point-blank range by a dragon (I forget his name)'s fireball and is unharmed and yet it destroyed the entire top of the fortress.

Then show me a feat from Ganon to suggest he could hurt Bowser more than being knocked into a star did.

And Mario can wipe castles out of existence...literally. So, all your listed feats of castle destruction fall short.

Stop wanking Zelda. It's weaker than the Marioverse. SMG just further confirmed this.

Bowser calls out his girlfriend and Peach beats the crap out of Ganon.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
Bowser calls out his girlfriend and Peach beats the crap out of Ganon.

*snickers*

Seriously

Bowser, call his children and they beat up Ganon.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Then show me a feat from Ganon to suggest he could hurt Bowser more than being knocked into a star did.

Again Mario/Luigi were able to injury Bowser; those punching bag plants thingies were capable of injuring Bowser, those small pools of lava on the planetoids were capable of injuring Bowser, bombs were capable of injuring Bowser, small fireballs were capable on injuring Bowser, Mecha-Koopas tossed at his head were capable on injuring Bowser, and I could go on and on.

Because (A) if Mario whipped a castle out of existence (which has nothing to do with one's physical powers) then explain the ruins seen afterwards, (B) if Mario/Luigi was capable on injuring Bowser then Ganon can easily do it as well. There are facts as seen in TP that puts Link physically above Mario/Luigi as well, and (C) show me a feat that would even suggest Bowser is capable on besting Ganon.

Excellent question. Same goes for every other castle in the game.



ABC Logic for the loss.



Those would be?



I don't recall ever saying he could. I said Ganon couldn't defeat Bowser and thus would lose.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Excellent question. Same goes for every other castle in the game.

Well then give an answer.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Those would be?

wcF0s0_ZGCY


You have yet to explain how Ganon would lose if Bowser could not even harm him. Ganondorf with his own hand obliterated one of the six sages with a sword in his chest.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Then show me a feat from Ganon to suggest he could hurt Bowser more than being knocked into a star did.

And Mario can wipe castles out of existence...literally. So, all your listed feats of castle destruction fall short.

Stop wanking Zelda. It's weaker than the Marioverse. SMG just further confirmed this. 1. Warping a whole dimension, using Twilight Magic to reduce Bowser to a soul, and that star couldn't incinerate rock. Some star.

2. That game's castle sequences were obviously exaggerrated. And Ganon jumped from under the remains of his castle, which was bigger than Mario's.

3. Zelda>Mario. Ganon could solo a good portion himself.

There is no answer.
The cutscenes after completing a castle show Mario destroying them and even launching them into space.
Yet after that, we see ruins.
I have no answer and it's not up to me to prove it to you.



Stop with the No Limits Fallacy. If only the Master Sword can hurt Ganon then that means Galactus couldn't do it.



And Dimentio could destroy all of Zelda by himself.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
There is no answer.
The cutscenes after completing a castle show Mario destroying them and even launching them into space.
Yet after that, we see ruins.
I have no answer and it's not up to me to prove it to you.



Stop with the No Limits Fallacy. If only the Master Sword can hurt Ganon then that means Galactus couldn't do it.



And Dimentio could destroy all of Zelda by himself. 1. There is one. The cutscenes are obviously exaggerrated. Is Seph a solar system buster now?

2. Galactus can prolly make the same kinda power as the MS if he wanted.

3. And he is too slow to avoid being cut in half.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
If only the Master Sword can hurt Ganon

The Master Sword is not the only thing that can hurt Ganon.

*cough*LightArrowsandSilverArrows*cough*

Which Bowser doesn't have.

However the point still stands, more than just the Master Sword will hurt Ganon...

Originally posted by Peach
However the point still stands, more than just the Master Sword will hurt Ganon...

Point aside that it was the person who said Bowser would win said that (Pyron_Knight) and not those who say Ganon wins.

We see Bowser's biggest and strongest attack to be his fire breath and we see Ganondorf take a hit from a dragon's fire breath at point blank range and come out of it unharmed and that attack destroyed most of the Forbidden Fortress.

And that isn't even his greatest durability feat.

Taking the Master Sword to the hand, and being able to speak afterwards is, and he didn't even have the Triforce of Power.

Hmm, looks like most of you are agreeing that Ganon wins here and talking about their durability feats. If it were hand to hand, Bowser would probably win, because Ganon having the Triforce of Power was the only thing giving him his durability feats, Bowser didn't use any items or Artifacts to accomplish his own. And if Ganon can get something, why not Bowser? If he can get his Star Rod, it's a stalemate, because neither will be able to kill the other; Bowser won't have any Light/Silver Arrows or Master Sword to damage Ganon because he has the Triforce of Power, and Ganon won't have any Star Spirits to nullify Bowser's Invincibility gained by the Star Rod, so, he won't be able to do anything to Bowser either. But Ganon was a powerful wizzard even before gaining his Trifoce Piece, just not Near-Immortality.


But if it's the usual normal empty handed Bowser vs Ganon with his usual Triforce Piece, Ganon wins. He has too much of an advantage over Bowser.

Oh and Pyron_Knight, for that part where you talked about Dimentio's beastiness he's not even a part of this thread and would give it to both Bowser and Ganon without much effort but since the thread is "Bowser vs Ganon" we have to stay on-topic and say who would give it to who between Bowser and Ganon, and it depends.

Ganon even without the Triforce has better feats than Bowser at his base level.

I don't know, he was a powerful wizzard even before gaining his Triforce, but was he able to leap a 500 feet into the air and shake Battle Grounds and cause Shockwaves like Bowser, and he wasn't getting hurt by Mario's punches and instead, Mario hurt himself, and Mario had to toss him into 3 Exploding Spike Bombs to totally beat him. He even survives things that would normally kill someone else, like Blowing Up, Falling into an Endless Pit of Lava, a Black Hole, etc, all the time despite a few Punches being able to damage him properly, but Mario and Luigi could easily throw Bowser around like a rag doll so that's perfectly understandable. Ganon has shown higher level feats, but only with his Triforce Piece. Ganon took a Master Sword to the hand? What a joke! Of course he's not gonna die because he's not hit in a more vital area like when Link kills him in Twilight Princess.


But there are Artifacts in the Marioverse as well (just not as powerful as the full Triforce ), and if Bowser gets the Star Rod, it's level, because neither can kill the other, and ultimately, it's a stalemate as explained earlier.


Overall, it depends. Does Bowser go empty handed while Ganon gets his usual Triforce Piece, or does Bowser get something too, or is it just hand-to-hand?

I meant head. He took it to the head in Windwaker without the Triforce.

Link never killed him in TP. We have no idea what happened to him.

O RLY? Bowser with the Star Rod ever resisted a soul attack? Can Bowser travel through dimensions?

And the Triforce of Power is part of Ganon's basic powerset, Star Rod is not part of Bowser's.

If it is H2H, Ganon dominates. He is faster, stronger(unless this is 50 foot Bowser), and he is shown to literally disintegrate a Sage with a punch.

Actually Link did kill Ganondorf in TP he stabed him in his chest
Ganondorf would win with his sword of goddesses and his move in the zelda games and super smash bros games yeah ganondorf would win
the green ginger man would win

Oh, head.... Never mind what I said then.

As for Link killing (or not) Ganondorf, yeah, we don't know what happened, but then Ganondorf loses his Triforce Symbol, and Zant clearly snaps his own neck. We don't see him after this so he may or may not be dead. He might escape death again like he always does though if he did die.

Bowser with the Star Rod can resist all but the combine efforts of the Star Spirits nullifying his invulnerability so why not soul attacks. And he can grant himself wishes so he could most likely travel through Dimensions easily.

And I don't see what's so wrong with Bowser getting the Rod just because it's not part of Bowser's basic powerset and the Triforce of Power is part of Ganondorfs basic powerset, and this has nothing to do with the fact that they're both still Artifacts/Items helpful for combat. The Rod is his basic powerset in Paper Mario, just not in any of the other games.

And, clearly, Mario/Luigi is physically stronger than Link if he can throw Bowser high into the air and like 100 feat away.

Hand-To-Hand, Ganon is faster (unless Bowser is anything like he is in Super Mario 64) but I can't say stronger. But then that part where he wipes out a Sage with a punch, that's lethal. I hope he can hit Bowser with that before getting Burned by Bowser's Trademark Fire Breath though. And without the Triforce to protect him since it's hand-to-hand (if it is), he can't keep from being phased by that attack anymore. It won't kill him any time soon or anything, but he can hit him from afar for a while.

Mario Luigi can't beat Link cause Luigi is always scared and afraid and Link can lift bowser with his power gloves with one hand

Again, these are Items and if he can get some, why not the Koopa King?

I do find it hard to believe that the Ganondorf from Brawl can beat the Bowser from Brawl or anyone else because he was like the worst in the Brawl; even Kirby could just Inhale him and jump off the stage and spit him out underneath the stage and fly back up. Ganondorf is far more powerful in the Zelda Games than in the Smash Series, just like almost everyone else.

Didn't Ganon die in TP? It was stated that Zant wouldn't die unless his master did too. So by showing Zant dying in that scene it implies that Ganon had died.

The difference between link and ganondorf that link can fight with a sword and ganondoft can fight with or without

Originally posted by Dark Shenron
Oh, head.... Never mind what I said then.

As for Link killing (or not) Ganondorf, yeah, we don't know what happened, but then Ganondorf loses his Triforce Symbol, and Zant clearly snaps his own neck. We don't see him after this so he may or may not be dead. He might escape death again like he always does though if he did die.

Bowser with the Star Rod can resist all but the combine efforts of the Star Spirits nullifying his invulnerability so why not soul attacks. And he can grant himself wishes so he could most likely travel through Dimensions easily.

And I don't see what's so wrong with Bowser getting the Rod just because it's not part of Bowser's basic powerset and the Triforce of Power is part of Ganondorfs basic powerset, and this has nothing to do with the fact that they're both still Artifacts/Items helpful for combat. The Rod is his basic powerset in Paper Mario, just not in any of the other games.

And, clearly, Mario/Luigi is physically stronger than Link if he can throw Bowser high into the air and like 100 feat away.

Hand-To-Hand, Ganon is faster (unless Bowser is anything like he is in Super Mario 64) but I can't say stronger. But then that part where he wipes out a Sage with a punch, that's lethal. I hope he can hit Bowser with that before getting Burned by Bowser's Trademark Fire Breath though. And without the Triforce to protect him since it's hand-to-hand (if it is), he can't keep from being phased by that attack anymore. It won't kill him any time soon or anything, but he can hit him from afar for a while. 1. Well the way I took it was that Ganon had to bond with Zant to keep a physical presence, so when Zant killed himself in spirit form, Ganon could no longer remain on the physical plane.

2. Because he has never shown to be able to do it. Soul attacks are on a whole other plane of reality than physical.

3. The Triforce of Power is literally a part of Ganon, it is part of his basic powerset, should I give Ryu Hayabusa the Dark Dragon Blade in threads? Or should I give Tifa the Masamune cause she used it once? No, I'm not giving him the rod.

4. Link tossed something bigger than Bowser into magma in Twilight Princess.

5. Why not stronger? Cause you say so? What strength feats does Bowser actually HAVE? Ganon in OoT while near death leaped from under the weight of his castle(not the whole thing, but a good portion). Ganon by feats is stronger.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx

Should I give Ryu Hayabusa the Dark Dragon Blade in threads? Or should I give Tifa the Masamune cause she used it once?

Ryu Hayabusa and Tifa aren't exactly a part of this thread but, whatever.

Well then there's nothing Bowser can do. In that case, Ganondorf has the advantage and wins by that default setting.

Just for funzies I will lower Ganon's durability to base level for you.

It's alright. If Bowser can't hurt him Bowser can't hurt him and if Bowser can't hurt him Bowser can't beat him as ESB-1138 explained earlier. I do like that part where Ganon's Durability is at Base Level though (hopefully it isn't against any rules). That actually does make things a lot better because even though Bowser has lost, at least he actually did do some kind of damage to Ganon's body.

But one thing you are forgetting is that Bowser is SLOOOOOOW. Ganon however has proven to be quite quick and agile for his size, how will Bowser hit him?

Generally speaking that is true, but the Bowser from Super Mario 64 and it's Nintendo DS remake are actually quite fast, faster than Mario, not to mention he can jump out of a near-bottomless pit that would kill Mario, so that Bowser breaks that rule.

(-EDIT-)

It is worth noting that he only runs short disances though.

Bowser gets his @$$ owned by a little fat Italian plumber and Ganon gets his @$$ owned by an elf. Care to tell me who has the most humilitaion here?

you, because you're generalising

Originally posted by Dark Shenron
Generally speaking that is true, but the Bowser from Super Mario 64 and it's Nintendo DS remake are actually quite fast, faster than Mario, not to mention he can jump out of a near-bottomless pit that would kill Mario, so that Bowser breaks that rule.

(-EDIT-)

It is worth noting that he only runs short disances though. Granted it has been a few years since I last played 64...But when was Bowser fast?

And he has never proven to be as agile as Ganon, effortlessly blocking and dodging Link's blows and Light Arrows when he got serious.

Originally posted by MadMel
you, because you're generalising


Can I get through at least one damn thread that doesnt give me insults?

Originally posted by Nemesis X
Can I get through at least one damn thread that doesnt give me insults?

Yeah, if you use common sense.

I don't know why Ganon haters try to diss him by saying an elf beat him. Watch Lord of the Rings, elves are the most thuggin species there is.

and i dont know why people diss bowser because he gets beat by a fat italian plumber..watch the super mario bros. super show..mario's a friggin' pimp

Bowser and Ganon always do that same crappy routine all the damn time: Kidnapping a princess and get their butts owned later.

Mostly all the Mario games have the same thing going on and on and on. There's just no stop to it! Cant Nintendo or whatever think of things better other than having a game where you keep jumping blocks and jumpin on enemies heads so they can die, ridiculous. I'm gonna bounce on the creators head and see if he'll die for making the same thing every friggin damn year. The only game Mario is good in is
Super Smash Bros.

nearly every new mario game brought something new and orginal..a few examples -
kaizo mario world (uber difficulty..not exactly nintendo, but they should definately hire the guy who made this)..mario 64 (3d), mario galaxy (gravity and space)
etc
despite you narrow minded point of view, mario is the biggest selling videogame fanchise of all time, and is now also the highest rated game in the world(galaxy)

So is Halo.

No it isn't.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
No it isn't.

You're a Halo hater aren't you?

Nope. Own the whole series personally. But Halo will never be as popular as Mario.

Originally posted by Nemesis X
Bowser and Ganon always do that same crappy routine all the damn time: Kidnapping a princess and get their butts owned later.

Great way to forget the side characters with interesting personalities.


Originally posted by Nemesis X
Mostly all the Mario games have the same thing going on and on and on. There's just no stop to it! Cant Nintendo or whatever think of things better other than having a game where you keep jumping blocks and jumpin on enemies heads so they can die, ridiculous.

And yet, Mario is No.1 in the leading sales of games.

Originally posted by Nemesis X
I'm gonna bounce on the creators head and see if he'll die for making the same thing every friggin damn year. The only game Mario is good in is
Super Smash Bros.

That's just your narrow minded ass opinion.
98% of Mario's games have been mass successes.
YOU FAIL.

Originally posted by Nemesis X
So is Halo.

Halo is shit game made successful.
Though, I do admit it's a fun series.
It justs gets boring in a extremely fast pace.

heres one
mario saved videogames
videogames would not be played if it werent for him

Originally posted by MadMel
heres one
mario saved videogames
videogames would not be played if it werent for him


That's the biggest load of bull$#!+ I ever heard.

Originally posted by MadMel
heres one
mario saved videogames
videogames would not be played if it werent for him

Not necessarily true.

Originally posted by Nemesis X
That's the biggest load of bull$#!+ I ever heard.

Not necessarily true.

Originally posted by Nemesis X
That's the biggest load of bull$#!+ I ever heard.
too bad for you its true
ill bring in a long description of the whole affair by esb..he said it 2 years ago, so gimme a sec to find it..

here we go..sorry for the double post but it took ages to find this thread..

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Early cartridges were 2KB ROMs for Atari 2600 and 4K for Intellivision. This upper limit grew steadily from 1978 to 1983, up to 16KB for Atari 2600 and Intellivision, 32KB for Colecovision. Bank switching, a technique that allowed two different parts of the program to use the same memory addresses was required for the larger cartridges to work.

In the game consoles, high RAM prices at the time limited the RAM (memory) capacity of the systems to a tiny amount, often less than a Kilobyte. Although the cartridge size limit grew steadily, the RAM limit was part of the console itself and all games had to work within its constraints.

By 1982 a glut of games from new third-party developers less well-prepared than Activision began to appear, and began to overflow the shelf capacity of toy stores.

In part because of these oversupplies, the video game industry crashed, starting from Christmas of 1982 and stretching through all of 1983.

In 1984, the computer gaming market took over from the console market following the crash of that year; computers offered equal gaming ability and since their simple design allowed games to take complete command of the hardware after power-on, they were nearly as simple to start playing with as consoles.

In 1985, the North American video game console market was revived with Nintendo's release of its 8-bit console, the Famicom, known in the United States under the name Nintendo Entertainment System (NES). It was bundled with Super Mario Bros. and suddenly became a success. The NES dominated the North American market until the rise of the next generation of consoles in the early 1990s. Other markets were not as heavily dominated, allowing other consoles to find an audience like the PC Engine in Japan and the Sega Master System in Europe, Australia and Brazil (though it was sold in America as well).

Without Mario video games would have ceased to be.

Video Games was too good an idea to stop with Mario.

Mario left a large impression on Video Game industry, but it would not have ceased without Mario.

considering the industry crash im sure it would have knocked development back a good few years, at the very least

I highly doubt that other videogames wouldnt have existed if it wasnt for Mario. How owuld that be even possible anyway? Some idiot told me that if it wasnt for Pac-Man, videogames wouldnt exist. You expect me to believe you when there are other dumb A's saying the same thing but different game names? No I wont!

Just to answer this forum, Ganon wins.

im guessing you didnt even bother to read what esb posted
yet more ignorance from you, just what this forum needs

Originally posted by MadMel
im guessing you didnt even bother to read what esb posted
yet more ignorance from you, just what this forum needs

It never ends, does it?

Look, I'm sorry if I'm being ignorant. I came to this site because I like to chat about videogames. I never wanted to pick an argument with anybody. I have been talking crap because I've been having a very bad day. Can we just please forget what's been happening in the past and just talk about what we're supposed to talk about in here? I promise not to be ignorant and I also promise to keep insults about videogames to myself, okay?

Originally posted by Nemesis X
Bowser gets his @$$ owned by a little fat Italian plumber and Ganon gets his @$$ owned by an elf. Care to tell me who has the most humilitaion here?



...what does this have to do with anything (especially when neither Mario nor Link have any part in this thread)?

Just hating.

Hating? ...okay then.

I mean he is just hating on t3h characters.

I see he isn't too much of a Mario or Zelda fan. Otherwise, he wouldn't be dissing them so badly.

Ganondorf wins. In the games, only the Master Sword (and sometimes Silver/Light Arrows) can damage Ganondorf.

Bowser doesn't need any special conditions to be met for him to take damage from Mario or Luigi.

Ganondorf might not necessarily be stronger physically (considering Bowser did hold up a massive collapsing section of a castle in Super Paper Mario, and it must take a massive amount of concentrated power to jump as high as he did in Super Mario 64 with his size), but he's most likely a better fighter with his superior agility and magic.

Then again, Ganondorf did kill a Sage with one punch (though this is probably not the best argument for his strength considering Link is okay whenever he gets hit like that unless he's like already dying or something).


Also, if you google "killermovies bowser vs ganondorf", you will see that a thread like this already exists here that was made back in October 29, 2005 (it's at the top of the page).

And:

Quote taken from Peach in Video Game Versus Rules:
"12. Certain characters are known to be omnipotent or invulnerable canonically. Examples of such are Pyron, whose actual limitations are not known, Pyramid Head, who is essentially an incorporeal manifestation of psychological issues, and Ganon, who cannot be defeated without the Master Sword and/or Light Arrows."

"We will allow these characters only if the first post specifies that they have lost that unbeatable element, enough so that the opponent(s) have, at the very least, a chance of winning."

You just necro'd a thread to cite a rule violation. haermm ON A FORUM WITH NO MODS.

I cited some rules, but at least I also contributed to the actual discussion.

Who do you think would win this match? If you have something meaningful to contribute to this debate, then yeah, go ahead and do that. I'll listen.

I don't have anything to add to this thread, honestly.

But I will direct you to the other versus forums since you're new.

Movie Versus
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f102/
Anime/Manga Versus
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f104/
Comic Book Versus
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/
And lastly
Cross Genre Versus
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f89/
Our Cross Genre forum has basically eaten the VG forum, no one really posts here anymore.

Cool. Thanks.