Hawkman (Carter) versus Captain America

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Starscream M
Who wins?

Eel O'Brian
Hawkman. Stomp.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Eel O'Brian
Hawkman. Stomp. it would def not be a stomp

Battlehammer
..............hawlkman from dc.............the one who has thousand years of fightign experiences............vast super human abilities...........amazingly powerful weapons..............and can fly...................kinda a spite...........

Starscream M
Originally posted by Battlehammer
..............hawlkman from dc.............the one who has thousand years of fightign experiences............vast super human abilities...........amazingly powerful weapons..............and can fly...................kinda a spite........... he doesn't have 'vast' superhuman abilities

his weapon is negated by the best defensive equipment in comics

and his thousand years experience is superseded by the unmatched skill of Captain America

Hawkman may win, but it certainly won't be easy for him

Eel O'Brian

Battlehammer
lol thanks was just about to go to the respect thread lol

Starscream M
Originally posted by Eel O'Brian
Stop talking like you know things. nothing very impressive in those scans...denting a car and breaking a pillar with a mace are things even streetlevelers can achieve

also, wikipedia states that Hawkman has the strength of about 12 men, so not much greater if at all than Captain America's

Galan007
Originally posted by Starscream M
Hawkman may win, but it certainly won't be easy for him Yes.... It would. confused

Starscream M
Originally posted by Galan007
Yes.... It would. confused not really, hawkman is not as skilled as Cap, is barely stronger, and his weapon is negated by cap's shield

I have doubts if Hawkman can even take majority

Badabing
Originally posted by Starscream M
he doesn't have 'vast' superhuman abilities

his weapon is negated by the best defensive equipment in comics

and his thousand years experience is superseded by the unmatched skill of Captain America

Hawkman may win, but it certainly won't be easy for him Claw of Horus, for rell.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Badabing
Claw of Horus, for rell. Shield of America ftw!

Eel O'Brian
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/hm-33-07.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/hm-33-08.jpg

"Barely stronger than Cap"... no expression

Badabing
Originally posted by Starscream M
Shield of America ftw! durelly Claw of Horus KOed Supes. You need to look it up, for rell.

Endrict Nuul
Carter 10/10

Badabing
Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
Carter 10/10 Keeping it rell. Sweet ass sig btw. cool

Soljer
Originally posted by Eel O'Brian
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/hm-33-07.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/hm-33-08.jpg

"Barely stronger than Cap"... no expression

I think that Captain America could push a car out of the way just as easily, given the ability to fly at those speeds. Especially considering that it was midair (no friction), and that Hawkman was visibly "NGGH" struggling.

Not that I don't believe that Hawkman is significantly stronger than Cap. I just don't feel that those two scans prove it.

srankmissingnin
Seriously - It would be a good fight. Hawkman has to come into melee and aside from strength they are pretty even, and even his strength isn't a huge gab (aside from the plane thing - which I'm willing to write off as PIS), certainly Cap has fought MUCH stronger opponents. Hawkman will win in the end but Cap will make him work for it.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Badabing
durelly Claw of Horus KOed Supes. You need to look it up, for rell. and? Captain America's shield can certainly take whatever the claw of horus can dish.

and I am well aware of the Superman incident.

Badabing
Originally posted by Starscream M
and? Captain America's shield can certainly take whatever the claw of horus can dish.

and I am well aware of the Superman incident. Then you also know the Claw would crush Cap under his shield, for rell.

Starscream M
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Seriously - It would be a good fight. Hawkman has to come into melee and aside from strength they are pretty even, and even his strength isn't a huge gab (aside from the plane thing - which I'm willing to write off as PIS), certainly Cap has fought MUCH stronger opponents. Hawkman will win in the end but Cap will make him work for it. exactomundo

Hawkman is prob stronger...but not enough that it would make much difference in a battle

Starscream M
Originally posted by Badabing
Then you also know the Claw would crush Cap under his shield, for rell. just like how Hulk 'crushed' Cap under his shield right....oh wait, he didn't.

Eel O'Brian
Originally posted by Soljer
I think that Captain America could push a car out of the way just as easily, given the ability to fly at those speeds. Especially considering that it was midair (no friction), and that Hawkman was visibly "NGGH" struggling.

Not that I don't believe that Hawkman is significantly stronger than Cap. I just don't feel that those two scans prove it. The car had its own velocity as well, and Hawkman tossed it out of the way afterwards, despite being under it. Not to mention it WAS thrown by Grundy.

Badabing
Originally posted by Starscream M
just like how Hulk 'crushed' Cap under his shield right....oh wait, he didn't. The Claw has the power of a small planet landing on Cap. This is KMC where bad writing and PIS aren't in the equation. Bottom line is Hawkman crushes Cap. He's too versatile, has too many weapons and outclasses Cap. The dude also put up a good fight against Black Adam, for rell.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Badabing
The Claw has the power of a small planet landing on Cap. This is KMC where bad writing and PIS aren't in the equation. Bottom line is Hawkman crushes Cap. He's too versatile, has too many weapons and outclasses Cap. The dude also put up a good fight against Black Adam, for rell. umm...well, Caps shield not only blocks attakcs but also absorbs momentum and energy, hence I doubt he will get crushed by the claw of horus

Eel O'Brian
Cap hurts Hulk and it's considered a high showing.

Hawkman knocks the teeth from Despero and nobody bats an eyelash...

Hawkman matches Cap in everything that he doesn't hold advantages in.

And while Cap can parry for some time with the shield, as soon as a solid blow is landed, the fight's over.

Until then it would just be Carter driving Cap through wall after wall.

Were the fight on page, but KMC rules, everybody would go "lol curbstomp!!"

But seeing as the fight isn't, and people figure Cap can last a minute before being ground into the pavement, everybody figures that it's a good fight.

Soljer
Originally posted by Eel O'Brian
The car had its own velocity as well, and Hawkman tossed it out of the way afterwards, despite being under it. Not to mention it WAS thrown by Grundy.

Having a large negative vertical velocity doesn't make it any more difficult to impart a horizontal one.

And, I could have missed it, but it didn't look like Hawkman tossed it out of the way. It looked like the car was about to squish someone and Hawkman pushed it out of the way - allowing it to continue falling, just a few meters away, where it wouldn't kill anyone.

srankmissingnin
... Because the Claw of Horus, is standard gear for Carter? Am I right? Huh, huh?


No.

Soljer
Originally posted by Badabing
The Claw has the power of a small planet landing on Cap. This is KMC where bad writing and PIS aren't in the equation. Bottom line is Hawkman crushes Cap. He's too versatile, has too many weapons and outclasses Cap. The dude also put up a good fight against Black Adam, for rell.

Psh.

Hawkman doesn't have a wing or a prayer against Teth.

Not that doing badly against Teth means he can't take Cap. :-P.

Soljer
Originally posted by Eel O'Brian


Hawkman matches Cap in everything that he doesn't hold advantages in.

Hawkman doesn't match Cap for skill.

Again; not trying to argue that Cap wins. He doesn't. Not even close.

Just, you know. Being Soljer.

Eel O'Brian
Originally posted by Soljer
Having a large negative vertical velocity doesn't make it any more difficult to impart a horizontal one.

And, I could have missed it, but it didn't look like Hawkman tossed it out of the way. It looked like the car was about to squish someone and Hawkman pushed it out of the way - allowing it to continue falling, just a few meters away, where it wouldn't kill anyone. No, but having a negative vertical velocity makes it harder to impart a positive vertical one... look at the scan and Hawkman's "wind trail". He flys from above, underneath the car and holds it for a second, before imparting a horizontal velocity, as gravity imparts a negative vertical velocity.

Then look again. He's placed directly against the car's momentum. No matter how you slice it, that's more than pushing it out of the way.

srankmissingnin
Captain America could easily be written to beat Hawkman in a believe able manor; it isn't that far out of the question. They have similar levels of durability and speed and Hawkman isn't so much stronger (I'd place him somewhere in the 5-20 ton range) that Captain America would be totally overwhelmed. Captain America could definitely manage to pull out off a win with a lucky shot.

Hawkman will take the majority but people aren't giving Captain America enough credit.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Eel O'Brian


But seeing as the fight isn't, and people figure Cap can last a minute before being ground into the pavement, everybody figures that it's a good fight. I love how little credit you are giving to Cap, as if he fights street burglars all day. Cap has faced and beat guys much more powerful than Hawkman.

Soljer
Originally posted by Eel O'Brian
No, but having a negative vertical velocity makes it harder to impart a positive vertical one... look at the scan and Hawkman's "wind trail". He flys from above, underneath the car and holds it for a second, before imparting a horizontal velocity, as gravity imparts a negative vertical velocity.

Then look again. He's placed directly against the car's momentum. No matter how you slice it, that's more than pushing it out of the way.

Yes, he does attempt to negate part of the vertical momentum, I acknowledge that. But he never out and out lifts the car. He gets under it, slows it (to an entirely indeterminable degree) and pushes it a few meters away so it won't crush someone.

Give Cap similar flight powers, and I think he could do exactly the same. Get under the car, slow it (to an entirely indeterminable degree) and push it far enough so that it doesn't kill an innocent.

Badabing
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
... Because the Claw of Horus, is standard gear for Carter? Am I right? Huh, huh?


No. No is right. It's gear that he uses regularly enough. Since the VS forum rules state they're at their best he brings his "big gun"....not that he needs it for rell.Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Captain America could easily be written to beat Hawkman in a believe able manor; it isn't that far out of the question. They have similar levels of durability and speed and Hawkman isn't so much stronger (I'd place him somewhere in the 5-20 ton range) that Captain America would be totally overwhelmed. Captain America could definitely manage to pull out off a win with a lucky shot.

Hawkman will take the majority but people aren't giving Captain America enough credit. Except this isn't a comic and you're not writing it. Hell, Batman has "been written" to take many people but on KMC that means nothing, for rell.

Eel O'Brian
Originally posted by Soljer
Hawkman doesn't match Cap for skill.

Again; not trying to argue that Cap wins. He doesn't. Not even close.

Just, you know. Being Soljer. Definitively and unquestionably equal?

No.

But the difference is minimal... IMO.

Especially given that Hawkman's more used to melee combat in the air vs. a grounded enemy than Cap is vice versa.

Soljer
Originally posted by Eel O'Brian
Definitively and unquestionably equal?

No.

But the difference is minimal... IMO.

Especially given that Hawkman's more used to melee combat in the air vs. a grounded enemy than Cap is vice versa.

Hawkman is quite skilled, I give him that unquestionably. But he's definitely not an A-lister by any stretch of the imagination, whereas Cap is the tippy-top of 'A.'

But you've got a point about their comparative experience - grounded vs. flying foes and what not.

Eel O'Brian
Originally posted by Starscream M
I love how little credit you are giving to Cap, as if he fights street burglars all day. Cap has faced and beat guys much more powerful than Hawkman. You really don't need to teach me respect for Cap. I have it. But Cap won't have any edges in this fight. And Hawkman will have quite a few.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Badabing
No is right. It's gear that he uses regularly enough. Since the VS forum rules state they're at their best he brings his "big gun"....not that he needs it for rell.


Not nearly enought by any stretch of the imagination to assume he'd have it by defualt.

Originally posted by Badabing
Except this isn't a comic and you're not writing it. Hell, Batman has "been written" to take many people but on KMC that means nothing, for rell.

I said written in a believable manor, not just written....

Captain America could easily come out on top against Hawkman with out people say "Bullshit, that's PIS!"

Eel O'Brian
Originally posted by Soljer
Yes, he does attempt to negate part of the vertical momentum, I acknowledge that. But he never out and out lifts the car. He gets under it, slows it (to an entirely indeterminable degree) and pushes it a few meters away so it won't crush someone.

Give Cap similar flight powers, and I think he could do exactly the same. Get under the car, slow it (to an entirely indeterminable degree) and push it far enough so that it doesn't kill an innocent. Sure he does. He doesn't let go of the car until the girls ran off a ways away. Again, that's not simply pushing a car... he's underneath a car, for long enough for the girls to have the conversation and get gone, and the car starts with its own velocity. I'd really put that as an extremely noteworthy Cap feat. Next time you see Cap catch a car so some little people can move their asses, let me know.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Eel O'Brian
Sure he does. He doesn't let go of the car until the girls ran off a ways away. Again, that's not simply pushing a car... he's underneath a car, for long enough for the girls to have the conversation and get gone, and the car starts with its own velocity. I'd really put that as an extremely noteworthy Cap feat. Next time you see Cap catch a car so some little people can move their asses, let me know. Cap has blocked powerful punches by an angry hulk...the forces which dwarf that of a falling sedan

Badabing
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Not nearly enought by any stretch of the imagination to assume he'd have it by defualt.



I said written in a believable manor, not just written....

Captain America could easily come out on top against Hawkman with out people say "Bullshit, that's PIS!" And I say it's part of his arsenal, for rell. You don't get to decide his default, relly. Being at his best, per forum rules, means he'll have the best weapons especially since the thread starter didn't specify no Claw.

There's a difference between what can be written and how things work on KMC. Logan was written to beat Lobo (crossover), WW Hulk to beat Marvel, Batman batkicks DS and he bled, etc. A lot can be written for the sake of the plot but here we take most of that out to reflect a characters true strengths. Cap is simply outgunned in almost every conceivable area. Cap has great feats which support a few wins. But a bloodlusted Hawkman will make Cap lose, for rell.

batdude123
Oh my God, MB is retarded... doh

Eel O'Brian
Anyways, I certainly don't see Cap easily doing this:

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkmanv42810.jpg

(The car HAD been moving pretty fast)

Soljer
Originally posted by Eel O'Brian
Sure he does. He doesn't let go of the car until the girls ran off a ways away. Again, that's not simply pushing a car... he's underneath a car, for long enough for the girls to have the conversation and get gone, and the car starts with its own velocity. I'd really put that as an extremely noteworthy Cap feat. Next time you see Cap catch a car so some little people can move their asses, let me know.

Are we really using conversations as indicators of time elapsed now?

In a comic, lengthy conversations take place in mid-punch.

Further; judging by the perspective, the girls could have been no more than a few meters from the car by the time it hit the ground. It isn't unreasonable to assume that a normal human, fleeing for their life, could cover said distance in a very short time. Especially when Hawkman already moved the car some distance himself.

Soljer
Originally posted by Eel O'Brian
Anyways, I certainly don't see Cap easily doing this:

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkmanv42810.jpg

(The car HAD been moving pretty fast)

Is this in response to me?

If so; I never even pretended to claim that Cap was as strong as Hawkman, nor that he'd win this fight.

I was merely doubting the validity of a posted feat emphasizing a significant advantage in Hawkman's favor.

Eel O'Brian
Originally posted by Soljer
Is this in response to me?

If so; I never even pretended to claim that Cap was as strong as Hawkman, nor that he'd win this fight.

I was merely doubting the validity of a posted feat emphasizing a significant advantage in Hawkman's favor. Of course not.

You said you were debating the feat, not the statement.

I'm just solidifying the statement.

Soljer
Originally posted by Eel O'Brian
Of course not.

You said you were debating the feat, not the statement.

I'm just solidifying the statement.

thumb up Just making sure. I hate for people to misinterpret me.

Eel O'Brian
Originally posted by Soljer
Are we really using conversations as indicators of time elapsed now?

In a comic, lengthy conversations take place in mid-punch.

Further; judging by the perspective, the girls could have been no more than a few meters from the car by the time it hit the ground. It isn't unreasonable to assume that a normal human, fleeing for their life, could cover said distance in a very short time. Especially when Hawkman already moved the car some distance himself. Without leverage, when the car has a falling velocity, I don't see Cap as easily pulling that off. All velocity that Carter had was null by the time the girls looked up to go "OMG!", and then Carter seemed (IMO) to be supporting it only grunting with much more ease than I would give Cap. Especially considering that, while he has wings to stabilize, as you pointed out, it's in mid air and Carter has nothing to use as leverage or for the added friction.

Base line: I think our interpretations, while close, separate mainly on the point of whether this is a feat as easily within Caps range of doability as it is within Carter's.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Badabing
And I say it's part of his arsenal, for rell. You don't get to decide his default, relly. Being at his best, per forum rules, means he'll have the best weapons especially since the thread starter didn't specify no Claw.


By the same token, I can just assume that Cyclops shows up the every match with Muramasa...

Originally posted by Badabing
There's a difference between what can be written and how things work on KMC. Logan was written to beat Lobo (crossover), WW Hulk to beat Marvel, Batman batkicks DS and he bled, etc. A lot can be written for the sake of the plot but here we take most of that out to reflect a characters true strengths. Cap is simply outgunned in almost every conceivable area.

Yeah, I know Hawkman was written to support the weight of an airplane... what was up with that! Seriously though, are you purposely trying to misunderstand me?

Originally posted by Badabing
Cap has great feats which support a few wins. But a bloodlusted Hawkman will make Cap lose, for rell.

... so you agree with everything I said? WTF

If Captain America can take a few wins (like I said) then he can be conceivably/believably/accurately written to take down Hawkman. Which is what just like I said. There are differences between something be written accurately and something just being written... stop pretending you don't understand what I'm saying. mad

Starscream M
Originally posted by Badabing
Cap has great feats which support a few wins. then we are in agreement

Soljer
Originally posted by Eel O'Brian
Without leverage, when the car has a falling velocity, I don't see Cap as easily pulling that off. All velocity that Carter had was null by the time the girls looked up to go "OMG!", and then Carter seemed (IMO) to be supporting it only grunting with much more ease than I would give Cap. Especially considering that, while he has wings to stabilize, as you pointed out, it's in mid air and Carter has nothing to use as leverage or for the added friction.

Base line: I think our interpretations, while close, separate mainly on the point of whether this is a feat as easily within Caps range of doability as it is within Carter's.

Fair enough. I'd consider such a feat to be high-end for Cap, but still within the realm of possibility for him.

srankmissingnin
I think everyone here believes Carter wins the majority but Cap is more than capable of winning a few? Why are we arguing? Let's all be chums!

Soljer
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I think everyone here believes Carter wins the majority but Cap is more than capable of winning a few? Why are we arguing? Let's all be chums!

Agreed.

The better question here is not who wins in a fight between Hawkman and Cap, but who more easily stomps the hell out of Wolverine.

Chum. stick out tongue.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Soljer
Agreed.

The better question here is not who wins in a fight between Hawkman and Cap, but who more easily stomps the hell out of Wolverine.

Chum. stick out tongue.

shifty

Hawkman is a flying Wolverine.

/ninja vanish

Soljer
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
shifty

Hawkman is a flying Wolverine.

/ninja vanish

Which is why Cap can take so many wins from him, amirite?

Take away the flight, and Cap demolishes him.

shifty.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Soljer
Which is why Cap can take so many wins from him, amirite?

Take away the flight, and Cap demolishes him.

shifty.

Flying is for fancy boys. Being on the ground increases ones manliness and chances of winning. Captain America is lucky those wings are there. smile

Soljer
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Flying is for fancy boys. Being on the ground increases ones manliness and chances of winning. Captain America is lucky those wings are there. smile

Good point. Which is why Cap's first move would be launching Wolverine into flight with an uppercut....wink.

srankmissingnin
Wolverine's manliness will hold him steadfast to the ground like an anchor! It's like that for all Canadians, we are unbelievably manly... and Wolverine is from Alberta making him even manlier! Alberta is like Canada's Texas, only with reading!

-K-M-
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
... Because the Claw of Horus, is standard gear for Carter? Am I right? Huh, huh?

No.

Actually it is, he can pull it out any time he wants and Hawkgirl has used it in battle as well

Originally posted by Soljer
Hawkman doesn't match Cap for skill.

Again; not trying to argue that Cap wins. He doesn't. Not even close.

Just, you know. Being Soljer.

That's debatable, as Hawkman doesn't just have 1000 years of experience, he has over 4000 and retains everything he has learned in his past lives

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Captain America could easily be written to beat Hawkman in a believe able manor; it isn't that far out of the question. They have similar levels of durability and speed and Hawkman isn't so much stronger (I'd place him somewhere in the 5-20 ton range) that Captain America would be totally overwhelmed. Captain America could definitely manage to pull out off a win with a lucky shot.

Hawkman will take the majority but people aren't giving Captain America enough credit.

Similar durability and speed? Ummmm what?

Originally posted by Soljer
Hawkman is quite skilled, I give him that unquestionably. But he's definitely not an A-lister by any stretch of the imagination, whereas Cap is the tippy-top of 'A.'

Ummm...what? erm
===
This is a joke right? Hawkman really does have every advantage going

Nuff said:

1. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/hm-47-003.jpg
2. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/hm-47-004.jpg
3. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/hm-47-005.jpg
4. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/hm-47-006.jpg
5. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/hm-47-007.jpg

Endrict Nuul
Originally posted by Badabing
Sweet ass sig btw. cool


Thanks man.

namorsubby
Hawkman. I wonder how his DCnU version would do against cap.

PillarofOsiris
Originally posted by Starscream M
it would def not be a stomp

It def would be.

DarkSaint85
But...but...Wikipedia!

New version would do a bit better, I think, especially with that liquid metal Nth metal armour that can react to gunfire...

abhilegend
Carter bashes steve's head in.

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