Superman/HP Doomsday vs Silver Surfer/WWH

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geshien
current Superman and HP Doomsday

vs

current Silver Surfer and WWH.

who wins?

quanchi112
Team 2 wins.

Nihilist
team 1

Galan007
With BFR - team 2 wins.
Barring BFR - team 1 wins.

imo. smile

Knowsbleed33
I see H/P Doomsday handling WWH rather easily. Then it comes down to Supes/Doomsday vs. Silver Surfer. Current Surfer has a slim chance of soloing.

janus77
Team 2 stomp.
Hulk + Power Cosmic >>> Team 1

icu311
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
I see H/P Doomsday handling WWH rather easily. Then it comes down to Supes/Doomsday vs. Silver Surfer. Current Surfer has a slim chance of soloing.

^^ agree.

skyfather
team 1ftw

hulk is the major weak link

WrathfulDwarf
So basically WWH would hold SS board while he's fighting the Big Boys....yeah, I can see that happen.

Alucard25
Team 1 as Surfer can't do it by himself and Hulk would get taken out rather easily by either Superman or HP Doomsday.

Rob23
Surfer and Hulk

fangirl101
Team one with ease. Superman throws Hulk in the sun while surfer tries to bfr HP doomsday. we know that won't work as the omegas couldn't even remove doomsday from existance.

Bentley
Time bfr ftw.

fangirl101
Originally posted by Bentley
Time bfr ftw.

The Omegas do that too. obviously that won't work.

darthgoober
Originally posted by fangirl101
The Omegas do that too. obviously that won't work.
Except that it DID work...

fangirl101
Originally posted by darthgoober
Except that it DID work...
they didnt' work on DD. Unless you are saying he did die or was removed or what ever. They worked on henshaw for sure.

darthgoober
Originally posted by fangirl101
they didnt' work on DD. Unless you are saying he did die or was removed or what ever. They worked on henshaw for sure.
I'm not talking about the OE, I'm talking about a temporal BFR.

fangirl101
Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm not talking about the OE, I'm talking about a temporal BFR.

Yeah. In my mind I was thinking it would take someone like darky to do that. Because waverider is clearly a cut above anyone herald level in time manipulation powers. And superman had a mb too.

darthgoober
Originally posted by fangirl101
Yeah. In my mind I was thinking it would take someone like darky to do that. Because waverider is clearly a cut above anyone herald level in time manipulation powers. And superman had a mb too.
Why would it take someone like DS to do that? If you can send stuff through time, then you can send stuff through time. And Surfer can do just that...

fangirl101
Originally posted by darthgoober
Why would it take someone like DS to do that? If you can send stuff through time, then you can send stuff through time. And Surfer can do just that...

Show me surfer sending a being like dd who resist powers thru time. Didn't it take Superman and Waverider to do that to DD? And can surfer bend time all the way to the beginning to entropy? wave rider as I said is clearly above everyone that is not a God in time powers. Plus he had amped superman to help him.

TricksterPriest
Waverider got nuked when he tried to temporal BFR DD.

darthgoober
Originally posted by fangirl101
Show me surfer sending a being like dd who resist powers thru time.
Show me DD resisting being sent through time...

Originally posted by fangirl101
Didn't it take Superman and Waverider to do that to DD?
No actually all it took was the time travel device that Superman had. All they had to do was put it on him...

Originally posted by fangirl101
And can surfer bend time all the way to the beginning to entropy?
Why does he have to send him all the way to entropy? If he sends DD to the day after tomorrow it's still a bfr.

Originally posted by fangirl101
wave rider as I said is clearly above everyone that is not a God in time powers.
Except that Waverider's powers had nothing to do with it, it was Supes's armband.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Plus he had amped superman to help him.
Yeah... help put the armband on DD

darthgoober
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Waverider got nuked when he tried to temporal BFR DD.
Are you sure Waverider actually tried to BFR DD because I don't remember that happening(but I guess I could be mistaken)?

fangirl101
Originally posted by darthgoober
Show me DD resisting being sent through time...


No actually all it took was the time travel device that Superman had. All they had to do was put it on him...


Why does he have to send him all the way to entropy? If he sends DD to the day after tomorrow it's still a bfr.


Except that Waverider's powers had nothing to do with it, it was Supes's armband.


Yeah... help put the armband on DD

And surfer can do everything the most advanced tech in the cosmos can? He'll get a feed back the same as waverider.

darthgoober
Originally posted by fangirl101
And surfer can do everything the most advanced tech in the cosmos can? He'll get a feed back the same as waverider.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Are you sure Waverider actually tried to BFR DD because I don't remember that happening(but I guess I could be mistaken)?

TricksterPriest
My bad. Wasn't a temporal BFR. But it does prove time-based powers can be countered.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/juggernaut666666/18-2.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/juggernaut666666/19-1.jpg

And that armband was modified by a motherbox.

darthgoober
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
My bad. Wasn't a temporal BFR. But it does prove time-based powers can be countered.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/juggernaut666666/18-2.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/juggernaut666666/19-1.jpg

And that armband was modified by a motherbox.
Waverider wasn't really doing anything time based though, he was just trying to shut down DD's nervous system. That's like saying that someone withstanding a blast from Surfer is proof they can't be transmuted since Surfer can do that too.

And all the MB did was reprogram the armband's destination to the end of time.

TheGame17
Originally posted by quanchi112
Team 2 wins.

no not surprising u side with marvel...

OneDumbG0
Barring BFR, I would say that Team 1 wins. Whatever they throw at H/P Doomsday, he could theoretically absorb and become immune. That could include the Power Cosmic and WWH's gamma radiation. Although WWH could theoretically increase in strength infinitely, the best that would do is provide a stalemate. Unless Surfer could replicate an entropic blast (a la Imperiex killing H/P Doomsday), then I don't think they can ever win. And I'm pretty sure Surfer never used an entropic blast.

With BFR, Surfer could teleport his form to any place or to any time. He's not immune to normal teleportation and he's not immune to time travel.

geshien
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Although WWH could theoretically increase in strength infinitely, the best that would do is provide a stalemate.

i've always thought that Hulks' infinite strength was a crock of bull.

how is anger infinite? in the sense you remain enraged, that's feasible but, becoming angrier and angrier thus becoming infinitely stronger? that's just illogical and it's bad writing.

Mindset
It's comics.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Mindset
It's comics. Agreed. Its friggin all make believe.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by geshien
i've always thought that Hulks' infinite strength was a crock of bull.

how is anger infinite? in the sense you remain enraged, that's feasible but, becoming angrier and angrier thus becoming infinitely stronger? that's just illogical and it's bad writing. It's not like he needs to have infinite anger to approach infinite levels of strength. The anger of finding out that he got betrayed by Miek amped his strength exponentially to the point where if he took a single step, he would have broke the entire planet. And this was a Hulk who was trying to hold his anger and strength in check in order to save everyone. Who knows what would happen if he got more angry then that and was not holding back? He'd probably destroy the planet by standing there as the waves of power literally break the planet to pieces.

geshien
Originally posted by Mindset
It's comics.

thanks for clearing that up...

TricksterPriest
" Unless Surfer could replicate an entropic blast (a la Imperiex killing H/P Doomsday), then I don't think they can ever win. And I'm pretty sure Surfer never used an entropic blast."


....................He can't do it. No standard energy manipulator can. Entropy is a rare power even in DC. There is no possible way he will ever be able to wield entropy, even if it was right in front him.

Mindset
Originally posted by geshien
thanks for clearing that up...

No problem, it looked like you needed it.

darthgoober
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
" Unless Surfer could replicate an entropic blast (a la Imperiex killing H/P Doomsday), then I don't think they can ever win. And I'm pretty sure Surfer never used an entropic blast."


....................He can't do it. No standard energy manipulator can. Entropy is a rare power even in DC. There is no possible way he will ever be able to wield entropy, even if it was right in front him.
IDK, Surfer DID manage to channel the energies of the Crunch so I think there's a chance he could manipulate Entropy if it was right in front of him. That's not to say that he could replicate the energy at will or that manipulating would in any way be easy, but Surfer is far from the "standard energy manipulator" and I think he's got a pretty good shot at being able to work with it.

TricksterPriest
Originally posted by darthgoober
IDK, Surfer DID manage to channel the energies of the Crunch so I think there's a chance he could manipulate Entropy if it was right in front of him. That's not to say that he could replicate the energy at will or that manipulating would in any way be easy, but Surfer is far from the "standard energy manipulator" and I think he's got a pretty good shot at being able to work with it.

Despite a certain similarity, Entropy is by the worse energy and cannot be manipulated the way Surfer did the crunch.

Entropy is the end of existence in DC. It's located at the end of time, where the Time Trapper is. It destroys everything it touches and tears through everything, even abstracts.

Even a major A-list guy like Elemental Firestorm or Galactus couldn't mess with Entropy.

fangirl101
Originally posted by darthgoober
IDK, Surfer DID manage to channel the energies of the Crunch so I think there's a chance he could manipulate Entropy if it was right in front of him. That's not to say that he could replicate the energy at will or that manipulating would in any way be easy, but Surfer is far from the "standard energy manipulator" and I think he's got a pretty good shot at being able to work with it.

Um,NO. IN DC, one does not go around manipulating entropy. unless you are an abstract level being, you aren't touching it.

darthgoober
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Despite a certain similarity, Entropy is by the worse energy and cannot be manipulated the way Surfer did the crunch.

Entropy is the end of existence in DC. It's located at the end of time, where the Time Trapper is. It destroys everything it touches and tears through everything, even abstracts.

Even a major A-list guy like Elemental Firestorm or Galactus couldn't mess with Entropy.
So NO ONE has ever manipulated Entropy in DC?

fangirl101
Originally posted by darthgoober
So NO ONE has ever manipulated Entropy in DC?

Extant, parallax, krona. All of whom are universal and higher in power level.

TricksterPriest
Originally posted by darthgoober
So NO ONE has ever manipulated Entropy in DC?

2, 3 if the Time Trapper counts. Classic Parallax, and Extant. Krona may or may not count, not sure how canon he is.

fangirl101
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
2, 3 if the Time Trapper counts. Classic Parallax, and Extant. Krona may or may not count, not sure how canon he is. As canon as Trinity #1 is.

darthgoober
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
2, 3 if the Time Trapper counts. Classic Parallax, and Extant. Krona may or may not count, not sure how canon he is.
Alright now how many times has someone like Firestorm or a noteworthy GL failed to manipulate it?

TricksterPriest
See Extant's respect thread, Parallax's, Time Trapper's and Krona's if he has one.

Oh, and Imperiex Prime too.

fangirl101
Originally posted by darthgoober
Alright now how many times has someone like Firestorm or a noteworthy GL failed to manipulate it?

Firestorm>GL.

He's a universal elemental. And the point is, no one dare. if they do, dc would be less one comic property. only the uber guys can mess with it.

darthgoober
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
See Extant's respect thread, Parallax's, Time Trapper's and Krona's if he has one.

Oh, and Imperiex Prime too.
Why would I look at their respect threads when my question is about guys like Firestorm and GL...
Originally posted by darthgoober
Alright now how many times has someone like Firestorm or a noteworthy GL failed to manipulate it?

TricksterPriest
Because there are numerous examples of what Entropy does and how none of them are able to manipulate it. Even DD couldn't evolve past it.

fangirl101
Originally posted by darthgoober
Why would I look at their respect threads when my question is about guys like Firestorm and GL... You are asking to prove a negative. No one tries because no one dares.

WrathfulDwarf
You need to learn to debate properly.

You said:

Originally posted by darthgoober
And Surfer can do just that...

When ask to show proof, you did this:

Originally posted by darthgoober
Show me DD resisting being sent through time...




Post a scan or maybe link.

darthgoober

darthgoober
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Because there are numerous examples of what Entropy does and how none of them are able to manipulate it. Even DD couldn't evolve past it.
Well then what are the examples? If you don't have them then what are the issue/arc numbers so I check them out?

darthgoober
Originally posted by fangirl101
You are asking to prove a negative. No one tries because no one dares.
And where is THAT stated?

OneDumbG0
Darth, don't take away H/P Doomsday from them. It's like... taking away a security blanket from a baby. I mean, you possibly could, but... why? It'd just be cruel. sad

fangirl101
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Darth, don't take away H/P Doomsday from them. It's like... taking away a security blanket from a baby. I mean, you possibly could, but... why? It'd just be cruel. sad

your trolling and flaming.

fangirl101
If we are talking about the very last appearance of H/P doomsday, in the story, he would have evolved past temporal displacement as it's already been used on him once.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by fangirl101
your trolling and flaming. You may think that's what I'm doing. But I'm really just trying to convince him not to tear down the walking plot-device that H/P Doomsday is. Because if anybody could, it'd be Darth. I already see where he's going with his directed questions and line of reasoning. And really, it would be cruel. But if you don't want me to say so. Okie.

fangirl101
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You may think that's what I'm doing. But I'm really just trying to convince him not to tear down the walking plot-device that H/P Doomsday is. Because if anybody could, it'd be Darth. I already see where he's going with his directed questions and line of reasoning. And really, it would be cruel. But if you don't want me to say so. Okie.

He actually isn't doing that. Once The time powers have been used on DD, then they wont' work. And since the radiant's energy and DS energy are useless, I'd imagine surfer's would be as well.

Erik-Lensherr
Team 1.

TricksterPriest
Originally posted by darthgoober
And where is THAT stated?

Because the last time someone tried, it created the Anti-matter universe.

Krona's experiments involved trying to see the beginning of the universe, and while doing that, he unleashed entropy into the multiverse........unless they retconned it again.

I can't remember what story arc Extant was in, something JSA. Zero Hour, OWAW, the action comics issue where the Entropy Aegis one-shots DD, various crossovers like JLA/Avengers featuring Krona, Hunter/Prey, anything LSH involving time trapper, and I think that's it.

darthgoober
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Because the last time someone tried, it created the Anti-matter universe.

Krona's experiments involved trying to see the beginning of the universe, and while doing that, he unleashed entropy into the multiverse........unless they retconned it again.

I can't remember what story arc Extant was in, something JSA. Zero Hour, OWAW, the action comics issue where the Entropy Aegis one-shots DD, various crossovers like JLA/Avengers featuring Krona, Hunter/Prey, anything LSH involving time trapper, and I think that's it.
Alright I'm hearing a lot in the way of you explaining your line of reasoning, but I still haven't seen or heard of anything in the way of actual proof. You have a good theory(don't think I'm claiming otherwise), but without actual proof to back it up it's just that... a theory.

And don't think I'm calling you a liar or saying the proof is nonexistent because I'm not, I'm just seeking some form of actual confirmation on it.

Batman-Prime
Team 1

Raoul
i'm gonna go with team 2 on this one... i don't think wwh has the feats to match the other three, but assuming surfer can get rid of clark quickly, i see him wiping out doomsday without much trouble...

fangirl101
Originally posted by Raoul i'm gonna go with team 2 on this one... i don't think wwh has the feats to match the other three, but assuming surfer can get rid of clark quickly, i see him wiping out doomsday without much trouble... And what would he do to wipe out DD that Darksied/the Radiant/Waverider couldn't?

darthgoober
Originally posted by fangirl101
And what would he do to wipe out DD that Darksied/the Radiant/Waverider couldn't?
He's probably thinking about Surfer's BFR options.

fangirl101
Originally posted by darthgoober
He's probably thinking about Surfer's BFR options.

DS, Waverider both have superior BFR powers to surfer. If that would have worked, wouldn't they have used them?

darthgoober
Originally posted by fangirl101
DS, Waverider both have superior BFR powers to surfer. If that would have worked, wouldn't they have used them?
That's no different than saying Gladiator not using a speedblitz against the Hulk is proof that Hulk can't be speedblitzed...

fangirl101
Originally posted by darthgoober
That's no different than saying Gladiator not using a speedblitz against the Hulk is proof that Hulk can't be speedblitzed...

Or that they knew it wouldn't work. I'll have to look up DD and see if he's been bfr before. If he has, then it won't work on him. I'm pretty sure he's been bfr a couple of different ways he's probably immune to now. In an old fight with a guardian, he seemed to think that doomsday could adapt to the combined might of all of the gaurdians. So he killed himself to bfr doomsday. DD can adapt to at least skyfather levels of energy in an attempt to bfr. And the ring had nothing to do with it. The gaurdian specifically says it's doomsday adapting.

darthgoober
Originally posted by fangirl101
Or that they knew it wouldn't work. I'll have to look up DD and see if he's been bfr before. If he has, then it won't work on him. I'm pretty sure he's been bfr a couple of different ways he's probably immune to now.
He's also been put down by physical force without ever evolving past it. Until he actually resist or shows the ability to counter it BFR is a viable way to score a win over DD.

fangirl101
Originally posted by darthgoober
He's also been put down by physical force without ever evolving past it. Until he actually resist or shows the ability to counter it BFR is a viable way to score a win over DD.

He resisted and adapted to a gaurdian trying to bfr him. guardian>>surfer.

No one ever adapts past a punch. But he has adapted to the level of strength it takes to put him down.

darthgoober
Originally posted by fangirl101
He resisted and adapted to a gaurdian trying to bfr him. guardian>>surfer.

No one ever adapts past a punch. But he has adapted to the level of strength it takes to put him down.
Didn't you say that the Guardian DID successfully BFR DD though? What issue did it happen in and I'll check it out?

Also...

That particular Guardian<DOS Supes unless I'm mistaken.

Raoul
Originally posted by fangirl101
And what would he do to wipe out DD that Darksied/the Radiant/Waverider couldn't?

Originally posted by darthgoober
He's probably thinking about Surfer's BFR options.

bingo.

illadelph12
I'm gonna have to side with team 2 also. There's no evidence DD would evolve past temporal displacement beyond hearsay at this point.

Ouallada
I'm not sure if DD's ability to evolve is infinite either.

I'm looking to a split or a slight majority for team 1, simply because WWH is a complete non-factor, and because SS is unlikely to one-shot superman or BFR DD immediately.

geshien
Originally posted by Ouallada
I'm not sure if DD's ability to evolve is infinite either.


when faced with a physical obstacle, at which point would DD not be able to evolve?

Ouallada
That's precisely the question I am asking as well. Assuming infinite limits based on a finite history is flawed.

Bouboumaster
Team 2: matter manipulation from Surfer on both opponents ftw

fangirl101
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Team 2: matter manipulation from Surfer on both opponents ftw
A guardian>>> surfer.

quanchi112
Originally posted by fangirl101
DS, Waverider both have superior BFR powers to surfer. If that would have worked, wouldn't they have used them? They still had the powers to do so. Just because they didnt use them don punish characters who also have this legitimate option as well.

quanchi112
Originally posted by fangirl101
A guardian>>> surfer. Surfer feats>Guardian's feats.

ultimatethor
Team 2 4 d win. SS quickly takes out superman, and then BFRs doomsday quite some way into the future/past/unknown dimension etc

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