classic beyonder vs the endless

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Nihilist
who wins?

Astner
U shitting me?

"God before Genesis" against a bunch aspects of vertigo?

quanchi112
Beyonder easily.

fangirl101
Originally posted by Astner
U shitting me?

"God before Genesis" against a bunch aspects of vertigo?

How the hell is The classic beyonder God before Genesis when that dumb ass "god" didn't even know marvel existed? He was an idiot that killed death and didn't know the reprecussions of such. He was No god.

Astner
He imposed limitations on his mind multiple times in the series. He even said "Did I make myself forget about you to suprize myself?"

If God, don't want to be aware of some things why wouldn't he be able to unmake that?

I mean an omnipotent being can make himself omniscient right? But what if ... "I want to forget this and this ..." I see no trouble in that, he can make himself omniscient at will, and he even said he were multiple times.

fangirl101
Originally posted by Astner
He imposed limitations on his mind multiple times in the series. He even said "Did I make myself forget about you to suprize myself?"

If God, don't want to be aware of some things why wouldn't he be able to unmake that?

I mean an omnipotent being can make himself omniscient right? But what if ... "I want to forget this and this ..." I see no trouble in that, he can make himself omniscient at will, and he even said he were multiple times.

YOU MISSED THE POINT. HE STILL HAD TO DISCOVER THE MARVEL MULTIVERSE. That means he was NOT god before creation. He himself was created AFTER the marvel multiverse.

quanchi112
Originally posted by fangirl101
How the hell is The classic beyonder God before Genesis when that dumb ass "god" didn't even know marvel existed? He was an idiot that killed death and didn't know the reprecussions of such. He was No god. Why dont you post your opinion as to who wins. Instead of trying to find flaws in one of the baddest comic book characters ever seen on panel.

Astner
Originally posted by fangirl101
YOU MISSED THE POINT. HE STILL HAD TO DISCOVER THE MARVEL MULTIVERSE. That means he was NOT god before creation. He himself was created AFTER the marvel multiverse.
God before Genesis, not after ...

fangirl101
Originally posted by Astner
God before Genesis, not after ...
How can he be GOD before Genesis and NOT know about the marvel U? If he was God, then he would have created it. Period. God would know all about his creations. The Beyonder was NOT God. NOT EVEN CLOSE. Hell, How the HELL can God be challenged by The Freaking MOLECULE man. If the Molecule man met The one above all on panel, he'd get erased by kirby's pen.

Astner
The interview says "God before Genesis." Deal with it.

Kirby is not a fictional character. Deal with it.

Air Legend
Any threads concerning the Endless are pointless. They always end up in you can beat Dream but you can't destroy the concept unless you're saying *insert* character won't have dreams anymore blah blah.

Anyways, Classic Beyonder in a stomp and guys quit feeding the troll aka fangirl101.

fangirl101
Originally posted by Astner
The interview says "God before Genesis." Deal with it.

Kirby is not a fictional character. Deal with it.

KIRBY is a character on panel. Deal with it.

Knowsbleed33
Originally posted by fangirl101
How can he be GOD before Genesis and NOT know about the marvel U? If he was God, then he would have created it. Period. God would know all about his creations. The Beyonder was NOT God. NOT EVEN CLOSE. Hell, How the HELL can God be challenged by The Freaking MOLECULE man. If the Molecule man met The one above all on panel, he'd get erased by kirby's pen.

Do you have to answer every question with a question?

Beyonder in a blow-out.

fangirl101
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Do you have to answer every question with a question?

Beyonder in a blow-out.
yes I do. the classic beyonder was NOT God. Not even close. Thanos with the heart could beat him, and Thanos wasn't even God. Kirby avatar beats them all.

Astner
Originally posted by fangirl101
KIRBY is a character on panel. Deal with it.
I find your ignorance disturbing ...

Astner
Originally posted by fangirl101
yes I do. the classic beyonder was NOT God. Not even close. Thanos with the heart could beat him, and Thanos wasn't even God. Kirby avatar beats them all.
This is what happens when all you've learned about comics comes from a few online scans.

fangirl101
Originally posted by Astner This is what happens when all you've learned about comics comes from a few online scans. As if I have anything to prove to you. This is what happens when you are biased, skewed, and own a couple of comics and think you know something.

Air Legend
Originally posted by Astner
This is what happens when all you've learned about comics comes from a few online scans.
Correction- That is what happens when you ignore every panel provided to you online.

Badabing
*sigh* This thread will be closed AND deleted soon.......

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by fangirl101
KIRBY is a character on panel. Deal with it.

Jack Kirby was very much a real person.

llagrok
Burn....

fangirl101
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Jack Kirby was very much a real person.

And I dont' know that. At the time, Kirby had been dead. Thus the rendering of him on panel is non the less a character with the name Kirby who happened to be GOD to the FF.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Badabing
*sigh* This thread will be closed AND deleted soon....... please don't, nobody is getting called names or using foul language. and besides, the reports have to be taken with a grain of salt since most of these guys have bad blood and want their "opponents" to be banned.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by fangirl101
And I dont' know that.

Apparently not. Which is odd considering his fame.

fangirl101
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Apparently not. Which is odd considering his fame.

apparantly you didn't know that I was saying that in a snide manner. Of course I know how jack kirby is. haven't i argued new gods for the past two months?

Rob23
Beyonder. No contest. Fangirl you're very annoying.

fangirl101
Originally posted by Rob23
Beyonder. No contest. Fangirl you're very annoying.

And I care? I haven't even given a winner in this thread. Check yourself.

Rob23
I don't care if you care or not I was simply stating how I, and most likely many other people, feel. But I did answer the question. You've already posted multiple times and haven't given a winner yet that is the whole point of this thread. Instead you've opted to inject the discussion with nonsense that does little to answer the thread's question. Either "check yourself" and answer the original poster's question or just don't respond at all. Since I don't expect you to do either I'm gonna go back to watching the Laker game while you most likely continue to try to discredit every Marvel character who happens to be more powerful than your precious DC characters.


P.S.- No hard feelings

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Rob23
I don't care if you care or not I was simply stating how I, and most likely many other people, feel. But I did answer the question. You've already posted multiple times and haven't given a winner yet that is the whole point of this thread. Instead you've opted to inject the discussion with nonsense that does little to answer the thread's question. Either "check yourself" and answer the original poster's question or just don't respond at all. Since I don't expect you to do either I'm gonna go back to watching the Laker game while you most likely continue to try to discredit every Marvel character who happens to be more powerful than your precious DC characters.


P.S.- No hard feelings owned by a sock. damn.

fangirl101
Originally posted by Rob23
I don't care if you care or not I was simply stating how I, and most likely many other people, feel. But I did answer the question. You've already posted multiple times and haven't given a winner yet that is the whole point of this thread. Instead you've opted to inject the discussion with nonsense that does little to answer the thread's question. Either "check yourself" and answer the original poster's question or just don't respond at all. Since I don't expect you to do either I'm gonna go back to watching the Laker game while you most likely continue to try to discredit every Marvel character who happens to be more powerful than your precious DC characters.


P.S.- No hard feelings

Please find something better to do. or if you are going to police the forum, then police the legions of marvel tards who put down EVERY single dc character no matter what. All of the comics characters are precious. I simply gave my opinion that the beyonder was not God before genesis. If you weren't paying attention to the debate then that is certainly NOT my fault.

P.S. There are hard feelings. don't come at me shitty again.

fangirl101
Originally posted by psycho gundam
owned by a sock. damn. Who was owned? He did nothing but spout rediculous theories of what is precious to me.

King Kandy
Classic Beyonder stomps. Not just the aspects but he has shown the ability to destroy the concepts as well.

fangirl101
Originally posted by King Kandy
Classic Beyonder stomps. Not just the aspects but he has shown the ability to destroy the concepts as well.
No he didn't. if he destroyed the concept, no one would have ever had memory of what it was.

klintypooh
I don't think I've heard/read the phrase "check yourself" in a good 5-10 years.

OT, Beyonder.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Rob23
I don't care if you care or not I was simply stating how I, and most likely many other people, feel. But I did answer the question. You've already posted multiple times and haven't given a winner yet that is the whole point of this thread. Instead you've opted to inject the discussion with nonsense that does little to answer the thread's question. Either "check yourself" and answer the original poster's question or just don't respond at all. Since I don't expect you to do either I'm gonna go back to watching the Laker game while you most likely continue to try to discredit every Marvel character who happens to be more powerful than your precious DC characters.


P.S.- No hard feelings Pwned. Wow.

Dark-Jaxx
Originally posted by fangirl101
All of the comics characters are precious. I don't know why, but I cracked the hell up when I read this. haermm

Anyway, Beyonder wins.

DeadpoolXXX
bump.

have opinions about this changed at all in the last 14 years?

abhilegend
Any of the Endless solo

MrMind
only destiny and death solo

kevdude
The Endless take it

DeadpoolXXX
hm. seems fangirl101 was ahead of his time.mmm

Glorificus
Beyonder.

ODG
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
bump.

have opinions about this changed at all in the last 14 years? Given this thread's Beyonder is supposed to remain static, the more precise question: have the Endless' station elevated in the past 14 years?

DeadpoolXXX
Originally posted by ODG
Given this thread's Beyonder is supposed to remain static, the more precise question: have the Endless' station elevated in the past 14 years? i dont know if the endless have actually been elevated. maybe people nowadays are just more aware of what they are capable of?

zopzop
I mean the Endless are cool and all (especially Death) but Beyonder has proved capable of erasing a CONCEPTUAL being across the entire multiverse. This feat is canon even to post-retcon Beyonder. If he can erase Death, the other Endless are nothing to him.

DarkSaint85
I would've thought you were more of a Destruction fan, zop.

MrMind
Originally posted by zopzop
I mean the Endless are cool and all (especially Death) but Beyonder has proved capable of erasing a CONCEPTUAL being across the entire multiverse. This feat is canon even to post-retcon Beyonder. If he can erase Death, the other Endless are nothing to him.

Who are u speaking of

Marvel death?

Mistress death was not multiversal

zopzop
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I would've thought you were more of a Destruction fan, zop.
He's my number 3. Desire is my number 2.
Originally posted by MrMind
Who are u speaking of

Marvel death?

Mistress death was not multiversal
No, it was definitely multiversal :
https://i.postimg.cc/RWZ73YvG/RCO024.jpg

DarkSaint85
Oh, I don't mean personality wise.....

https://i.postimg.cc/g088RS9w/Destrui-o11.png

zopzop
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh, I don't mean personality wise.....

https://i.postimg.cc/g088RS9w/Destrui-o11.png
That's the only reason why he's my number three big grin Otherwise it'd be Dream.

abhilegend
Originally posted by zopzop
I mean the Endless are cool and all (especially Death) but Beyonder has proved capable of erasing a CONCEPTUAL being across the entire multiverse. This feat is canon even to post-retcon Beyonder. If he can erase Death, the other Endless are nothing to him.
Marvel Death can be killed off by a necromancy ritual too and destroyed by Adam Warlock destroying the universe with LT's power. She's not even close to be Endless level. Endless can't actually die until you destroy the entire creation and even then Death will be there at the end.

Glorificus
And Vertigo Dream was captured in a bottle for 100 years by a human performing a ritual.

What's stopping Beyonder from waving his hand, creating 7 timelines and 7 of these Roderick Burgess beings who are granted knowledge on how to perform a slightly tweaked ritual each time and trapping each of the 7 Endless, thereby winning via BFR?

zopzop
Originally posted by abhilegend
Marvel Death can be killed off by a necromancy ritual too and destroyed by Adam Warlock destroying the universe with LT's power. She's not even close to be Endless level. Endless can't actually die until you destroy the entire creation and even then Death will be there at the end.
I understand that Marvel's Death isn't as impressive as Vertigo's Death but that wasn't the point of the scan. The point is, Beyonder has the power to wipe out a conceptual being on a multiversal scale. It's absolutely stupid that this wasn't retconned but that's Marvel for you. Beyonder wins.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Glorificus
And Vertigo Dream was captured in a bottle for 100 years by a human performing a ritual.

What's stopping Beyonder from waving his hand, creating 7 timelines and 7 of these Roderick Burgess beings who are granted knowledge on how to perform a slightly tweaked ritual each time and trapping each of the 7 Endless, thereby winning via BFR?
Dream was weakened when he was captured. Might as well use Beyonder almost getting killed by The Thing.

Beyonder can't create timelines anyway. Originally posted by zopzop
I understand that Marvel's Death isn't as impressive as Vertigo's Death but that wasn't the point of the scan. The point is, Beyonder has the power to wipe out a conceptual being on a multiversal scale. It's absolutely stupid that this wasn't retconned but that's Marvel for you. Beyonder wins.
Well, Death is universal and not multiversal anymore, so there's that.

zopzop
Originally posted by abhilegend
Dream was weakened when he was captured. Might as well use Beyonder almost getting killed by The Thing.

Beyonder can't create timelines anyway.
Well, Death is universal and not multiversal anymore, so there's that.
The scan I posted clearly said "multiversal."

abhilegend
Originally posted by zopzop
The scan I posted clearly said "multiversal."
Its been retconned, Death herself has been retconned.

Delta1938
Originally posted by Badabing
*sigh* This thread will be closed AND deleted soon.......

14 years later, still open. The slow metabolism and tiny brain of you scalebags must make about a decade and a half seem short.

MrMind
Originally posted by zopzop
The scan I posted clearly said "multiversal."

SW2 was retconned

zopzop
Originally posted by abhilegend
Its been retconned, Death herself has been retconned. Originally posted by MrMind
SW2 was retconned
This feat is still mentioned in Beyonder, Death, Eternity, and the LT's handbook entries. It was shown on panel years later in an issue of Quasar.

abhilegend
Originally posted by zopzop
This feat is still mentioned in Beyonder, Death, Eternity, and the LT's handbook entries. It was shown on panel years later in an issue of Quasar.
If there's no multiversal death anymore, how did Beyonder kill death of multiverse? It's retconned to be the death of a universe.

zopzop
Originally posted by abhilegend
If there's no multiversal death anymore, how did Beyonder kill death of multiverse? It's retconned to be the death of a universe.
Where is it stated that there is no multiversal Death anymore? I'm genuinely curious.

abhilegend
Originally posted by zopzop
Where is it stated that there is no multiversal Death anymore? I'm genuinely curious.
Thanos Imperative, Cancerverse Death was killed by necropsy.

zopzop
Originally posted by abhilegend
Thanos Imperative, Cancerverse Death was killed by necropsy.
Oh, that. I'm not sure what the issue is though? The Many Angled Ones only managed to kick Death out of a single universe and it came back when Thanos re-introduced it, the Beyonder erased the CONCEPT from the multiverse and no one could undo it.

abhilegend
Originally posted by zopzop
Oh, that. I'm not sure what the issue is though? The Many Angled Ones only managed to kick Death out of a single universe and it came back when Thanos re-introduced it, the Beyonder erased the CONCEPT from the multiverse and no one could undo it.
Not kicked, actually killed Death.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BCwY8tKkxaI/VnoHwc1sjFI/AAAAAAAANZM/hZrdWjWoacs/s1600-Ic42/RCO013.jpg

Nope, retconned as universal Death.

8swords
Originally posted by abhilegend
Not kicked, actually killed Death.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BCwY8tKkxaI/VnoHwc1sjFI/AAAAAAAANZM/hZrdWjWoacs/s1600-Ic42/RCO013.jpg

Nope, retconned as universal Death.

"avatar of death, thus annihilated death itself" soo avatar of that universe's death? which means no more death there. how did that mean = no more multiversal death?

i mean if its just an avatar of that universe then theres probably a multiversal one over all of it right? like with DS? soo i dont see the counter argument.

8swords
Originally posted by ODG
Given this thread's Beyonder is supposed to remain static, the more precise question: have the Endless' station elevated in the past 14 years?

tbh, i have maybe an inkling of info about the endless, soo maybe somebody could add to this? because abhi's argument is moving towards recent incarnations of beyonder which is not the case for this thread?

abhilegend
Originally posted by 8swords
"avatar of death, thus annihilated death itself" soo avatar of that universe's death? which means no more death there. how did that mean = no more multiversal death?

They killed the Death of that universe.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-prNBo670l48/VnoIEAPPe8I/AAAAAAAANgM/Q_vUk1spV78/s1600-Ic42/RCO002.jpg

"Death itself has been exterminated."



Not really. There's no multiversal Death.

abhilegend
Originally posted by 8swords
tbh, i have maybe an inkling of info about the endless, soo maybe somebody could add to this? because abhi's argument is moving towards recent incarnations of beyonder which is not the case for this thread?
I'm talking about the old Beyonder.

DarkSaint85
Current Beyonder is also Classic, no?

zopzop
Originally posted by abhilegend
I'm talking about the old Beyonder.
This is an old Beyonder feat that's still valid to current Beyonder though.

abhilegend
Originally posted by zopzop
This is an old Beyonder feat that's still valid to current Beyonder though.
But Death is retconned to be universal only. So the feat is universal.

zopzop
Originally posted by abhilegend
But Death is retconned to be universal only. So the feat is universal.
Let's say we agree with this for a second, what does that mean? It means that Beyonder can AT LEAST wipe out a concept on a universal scale. He wins in any universe where he wipes out the Endless' concepts in. Beyonder wins.

kevdude
Death has the power to stop death everywhere in the DCU, she did it easily, and went along her way, she took up the job again like it was nothing, the Beyonder couldn't restart the concept at all. She would look at the Beyonder and tell him to go away, like she did with the Furies, he would be lucky to get her attention or Destiny's. It's not like he is on the level of The Presence's 3 sons.

zopzop
Originally posted by kevdude
Death has the power to stop death everywhere in the DCU, she did it easily, and went along her way, she took up the job again like it was nothing, the Beyonder couldn't restart the concept at all. She would look at the Beyonder and tell him to go away, like she did with the Furies, he would be lucky to get her attention or Destiny's. It's not like he is on the level of The Presence's 3 sons.
He wiped out the concept of Death at least on a universal scale AND he was the only being capable of getting it started again. That's all on panel.

Beyonder has wiped galaxies and created universes. His fight with Molecule Man was trans-multiversal in scale. This is all canon to him after the retcon. Lucifer needed Michael's power to create a universe/multiverse. Beyonder needed nothing but his own power.

DeadpoolXXX
but the endless are all multiversal constants.

so how does the ability to destroy a universal concept translate to destroying a multiversal one?

zopzop
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
but the endless are all multiversal constants.

so how does the ability to destroy a universal concept translate to destroying a multiversal one?
Well on panel Beyonder did destroy it on a multiversal scale. I'm just agreeing with Abhi's reading of Thanos Imperative to further the discussion. If the concept of Death or any other concept is wiped out in the universe where the battle takes place, the person that wiped the concept wins no? We've already proven that Beyonder wiped out a concept on a universal scale (at a minimum) and no power except his own was able to undo it. Beyonder wins.

kevdude
Originally posted by zopzop
He wiped out the concept of Death at least on a universal scale AND he was the only being capable of getting it started again. That's all on panel.

Beyonder has wiped galaxies and created universes. His fight with Molecule Man was trans-multiversal in scale. This is all canon to him after the retcon. Lucifer needed Michael's power to create a universe/multiverse. Beyonder needed nothing but his own power.

And yet Lucifer is still more powerful than Dream who did the same thing. He destroyed infinite universes/mulitiverses/creations in the Mansions of Silence just by being there, an indescribable act, plus a feat nobody else I have seen ever do. In the scheme of things, the Beyonder is below Lucifer and his brothers. He would also be below Death and Destiny as well.

DeadpoolXXX
Originally posted by zopzop
Well on panel Beyonder did destroy it on a multiversal scale. I'm just agreeing with Abhi's reading of Thanos Imperative to further the discussion. If the concept of Death or any other concept is wiped out in the universe where the battle takes place, the person that wiped the concept wins no? We've already proven that Beyonder wiped out a concept on a universal scale (at a minimum) and no power except his own was able to undo it. Beyonder wins. i guess my point is that the ability to destroy a universal character doesn't mean he can wipe out a multiversal character. for obvious reasons.

but i agree that in the original material, beyonder did erase death across the multiverse. though if marvel death has since been retconned, i dunno how that fits into this discussion

MrMind
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
i guess my point is that the ability to destroy a universal character doesn't mean he can wipe out a multiversal character. for obvious reasons.

but i agree that in the original material, beyonder did erase death across the multiverse. though if marvel death has since been retconned, i dunno how that fits into this discussion

marvel has no multiversal death
so beyonder was at best erasing infinite universal death in the infinite universes

that is completely different from erasing a single multiversal/omniversal being overseeing across all creation

abhilegend
Originally posted by zopzop
Let's say we agree with this for a second, what does that mean? It means that Beyonder can AT LEAST wipe out a concept on a universal scale. He wins in any universe where he wipes out the Endless' concepts in. Beyonder wins.
Endless are not bound by universes, Death even hopped to Lucifer's universe.

abhilegend
Originally posted by zopzop
He wiped out the concept of Death at least on a universal scale AND he was the only being capable of getting it started again. That's all on panel.

Beyonder has wiped galaxies and created universes. His fight with Molecule Man was trans-multiversal in scale. This is all canon to him after the retcon. Lucifer needed Michael's power to create a universe/multiverse. Beyonder needed nothing but his own power.
When did he create multiple universes? Galaxies? Pfft. Even random imps can remove universal concepts like color.

Originally posted by abhilegend
A random imp can warp away the concept of color itself from the universe.

https://imgur.com/a/xKyvzTP

This sounds like a skyfather to you?
I'm not sure why you're so impressed by that.

ODG
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
i dont know if the endless have actually been elevated. maybe people nowadays are just more aware of what they are capable of? Given clasic Beyonder's more zany feats appear to be canonized by Defenders: Beyond, I'm not sure if this observation changes the equation, even if it were true.

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