WWH w/Gem of Cyttorak vs Silver Surfer

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The Great Galen
I did something similar awhile back agaisnt Thanos, but this time its agaisnt the surfer. Who takes it?

illadelph12
Surfer waves his hand and encases Hulk in an amorphous blob of adhesive rubber, similar to the inside of a stressball or a giant super bouncy ball, and then walks away, leaving Hulk pissed off inside of a trap his strength can't get him out of.

Game. Set. Match.

Brains over brawn.

The Pict
Originally posted by illadelph12
Surfer waves his hand and encases Hulk in an amorphous blob of adhesive rubber, similar to the inside of a stressball or a giant super bouncy ball, and then walks away, leaving Hulk pissed off inside of a trap his strength can't get him out of.

Game. Set. Match.

Brains over brawn.

Hulk made unstoppable is stopped by rubber? huh

Knowsbleed33
WWH w/ the Gem ftw. I'm not even prepared to say the Surfer can beat Juggernaut with anything other than BFR.

george '06
cyttorak hulk easy, probably without the gem too

llagrok
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
WWH w/ the Gem ftw. I'm not even prepared to say the Surfer can beat Juggernaut with anything other than BFR.

telepathy?

The Great Galen
Since when has that ever work on Hulk or juggy, well besides his helmet being off.

llagrok
Won't work on the hulk.

Surfer wouldn't have a hard time getting Cain's helmet out.

Knowsbleed33
Originally posted by llagrok
telepathy?

Hmmm, maybe. It is a weakness.

Knowsbleed33
Originally posted by llagrok
Won't work on the hulk.

Surfer wouldn't have a hard time getting Cain's helmet out.

If his force field isn't up that is.

llagrok
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
If his force field isn't up that is.

CIS is in effect.

Knowsbleed33
roll eyes (sarcastic)

illadelph12
Originally posted by The Pict
Hulk made unstoppable is stopped by rubber? huh

Not stopped, but rendered harmless. Like this:

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g161/defrostindoors/horseBubble.jpg

I know it's not as romantic as "Hulk smash" amped by the Cytorrak gem, but it's perfectly logical. The bubble wouldn't halt Hulk's motion, just render it harmless.

And squishy.

All the Physical exertion in the world isn't going to do Hulk any good when he's in the middle of a giant blob of adhesive, amorphous, rubber-like matter.

The Pict
Originally posted by illadelph12
Not stopped, but rendered harmless. Like this:

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g161/defrostindoors/horseBubble.jpg

I know it's not as romantic as "Hulk smash" amped by the Cytorrak gem, but it's perfectly logical. The bubble wouldn't halt Hulk's motion, just render it harmless.

And squishy.

All the Physical exertion in the world isn't going to do Hulk any good when he's in the middle of a giant blob of adhesive, amorphous, rubber-like matter.

I'm pretty sure he could escape from something like that.

The Great Galen
Well WWH's physical strength would already be beyond SS enough as it is. Now take into account the portion of cyttorak power that would be included, is a ball of rubber really gonna contain it.

Dark-Jaxx
WWH with the gem of Cytorrak would pwn.

And as for the rubber ball...I think WWH with the Gem can provide enough force with a finger to pop it. smile

illadelph12
Originally posted by The Pict
I'm pretty sure he could escape from something like that.

That particular plastic bubble in the pic, yes.

An amorphous mass of a rubber like substance with himself in the middle, not very likely.

Picture Hulk inside of a solid sphere with the consistency of jello, but adhesive and rubber-like, with a height and diameter of 10 yards. A giant adhesive ball with himself in the center of it. He'd have no way of exerting his strength to get out because he'd have nothing to gain leverage on due to the amorphous state of the substance.

quanchi112
Originally posted by illadelph12
Not stopped, but rendered harmless. Like this:

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g161/defrostindoors/horseBubble.jpg

I know it's not as romantic as "Hulk smash" amped by the Cytorrak gem, but it's perfectly logical. The bubble wouldn't halt Hulk's motion, just render it harmless.

And squishy.

All the Physical exertion in the world isn't going to do Hulk any good when he's in the middle of a giant blob of adhesive, amorphous, rubber-like matter. Very tricky. Well played zod. Well played.

K-Dog
Ok, in one showing Juggernaut easily plowed through several inches of metal which was stated as being 50 times stronger than battleship steel. He has also walked on air to keep advancing forward. Now add the strength of WWH to him (or vice versa). I seriously doubt a few yards of rubber is going to stop him. Of course surfer is fast enough to keep from being hit, can fly around, use ranged energy attacks, but when it becomes hand-to-hand it will be over really fast.

I suppose any high=level matter/energy manipulator could just suspend a brick in the air, or in a rubber bubble, or whatever, but that would not finish them off. So stalemate or win for cytorak hulk guy.

illadelph12
Originally posted by K-Dog
Ok, in one showing Juggernaut easily plowed through several inches of metal which was stated as being 50 times stronger than battleship steel. He has also walked on air to keep advancing forward. Now add the strength of WWH to him (or vice versa). I seriously doubt a few yards of rubber is going to stop him. Of course surfer is fast enough to keep from being hit, can fly around, use ranged energy attacks, but when it becomes hand-to-hand it will be over really fast.

I suppose any high=level matter/energy manipulator could just suspend a brick in the air, or in a rubber bubble, or whatever, but that would not finish them off. So stalemate or win for cytorak hulk guy.

Incapacitation = win. You don't have to kill to achieve victory. If I leave you stranded in handcuffs in a 50 foot hole in the ground with no means of escape and just walk way, can you honestly claim a victory, other than possibly a moral victory, because I didn't knock you unconscious or kill you?

Dark-Jaxx
Originally posted by illadelph12
That particular plastic bubble in the pic, yes.

An amorphous mass of a rubber like substance with himself in the middle, not very likely.

Picture Hulk inside of a solid sphere with the consistency of jello, but adhesive and rubber-like, with a height and diameter of 10 yards. A giant adhesive ball with himself in the center of it. He'd have no way of exerting his strength to get out because he'd have nothing to gain leverage on due to the amorphous state of the substance. Hulk would break it with his nail. 313

rotiart
With BFR, Surfer tosses Hulk off into a black hole.

Arena style. No CIS or PIS. While it is within the ability of the surfer to make the blob.... he never does so in combat situations. like... ever. Surfer always resorts to blast and run. In prior comics surfer has removed the gamma from hulk... but assuming the cytorrak gym is in effort.. then the force fields could negate that. Its unclear.

My point being that in most fights of the surfer... even though he may be blood lusted... fighting in character.. he doesn't create a "certain blob" as you suggest. In fact he very rarely does anything other than run and gun in fight mode. Surfer has a lot of abilities... but he never makes use of them in combat mode.

King Kandy
Originally posted by illadelph12
That particular plastic bubble in the pic, yes.

An amorphous mass of a rubber like substance with himself in the middle, not very likely.

Picture Hulk inside of a solid sphere with the consistency of jello, but adhesive and rubber-like, with a height and diameter of 10 yards. A giant adhesive ball with himself in the center of it. He'd have no way of exerting his strength to get out because he'd have nothing to gain leverage on due to the amorphous state of the substance.
The funny thing is, the leader actually did that exact same thing. He trapped Hulk in 10 yard gooey material. Hulk could break out of the weaker version but the full version made him helpless.

illadelph12
Originally posted by King Kandy
The funny thing is, the leader actually did that exact same thing. He trapped Hulk in 10 yard gooey material. Hulk could break out of the weaker version but the full version made him helpless.

Exactly.

Dark-Jaxx
Just thought of sumthin. To break the bubble, couldn't Hulk just make a bigger force field around himself?

King Kandy
Interesting idea...

Dark-Jaxx
Hell, couldn't he use a thunderclap?

CaptainStoic
When has Norrin Radd, aka The Silver Surfer ever done the above mentioned?

psycho gundam
Originally posted by King Kandy
The funny thing is, the leader actually did that exact same thing. He trapped Hulk in 10 yard gooey material. Hulk could break out of the weaker version but the full version made him helpless.

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/5823/rvh1wd5.th.jpg
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/9403/rvh2zh1.th.jpg

idunno, the hulk can hold his breath longer than a whale can but if he feels like inhaling, pretty much nothing can stop him from doing so.
the gummy shite might not act the same but he won't be totaly immobilized...i think?

rotiart
Originally posted by illadelph12
Exactly.

Exactly? The leader is like the "Anti-hulk"

Surfer never does the things you say in combat... and since he is still fighting as surfer does... surfer I say loses to hulkernaut.

Healing? check.
Curing the blind> (Alicia Masters)
matter manipulation? check.
Creating objects out of thin air? check.

Using speed as an advantage in combat. Out of character.
Using matter manipulation in combat? Out of character.
Creating objects out of thin air? Again. Out of character.

Surfer is an uber force when you think about his power set. Problem is that surfer.. .in bloodlust mood ALWAYS resorts to blasting away at his enemies. Only when he's written by a "smart" writter, ie Jim Starlin, does he use his other abilities... and even then its never in combat. I can't remember any one time he's done anything similar to creating a blob of amorphous whatever in combat to entrap an opponent

illadelph12
Please refer to forum rules.

Blob for the win.

rotiart
BTW. I'm not saying Hulk can't be trapped. What I'm saying is that although Surfer has the ability... he'd never does it in combat situations.

King Kandy
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Hell, couldn't he use a thunderclap?
He tried but the vibrations just rebounded at him and hurt him.

rotiart
Originally posted by illadelph12
Please refer to forum rules.

Blob for the win.

Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.


Forum Rules... Gotcha, except that in this case it contradicts itself. Flash HAS used his speed before.. and does do the prescribed act.. Surfer doesn't... its possibly within his powerset... yet you don't know since he's never done what you describe.. so its an "assumed" ability based on something thats not verified he has/ or can do. And second... even assuming he could do it... its still not within the charatcer's personality... bloodlusted or not.

Note: I am not saying there aren't other ways for him to win... but its like saying surfer could do superman type million punches per second... since he has the super strength and speed.. but has never shown he can.. or would do it... you're basing this blob ability on .something never before shown by the surfer.

BFR can win it. Just not in the way you say.

Nihilist
surfer

CaptainStoic
Originally posted by rotiart
Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.


Forum Rules... Gotcha, except that in this case it contradicts itself. Flash HAS used his speed before.. and does do the prescribed act.. Surfer doesn't... its possibly within his powerset... yet you don't know since he's never done what you describe.. so its an "assumed" ability based on something thats not verified he has/ or can do. And second... even assuming he could do it... its still not within the charatcer's personality... bloodlusted or not.

Note: I am not saying there aren't other ways for him to win... but its like saying surfer could do superman type million punches per second... since he has the super strength and speed.. but has never shown he can.. or would do it... you're basing this blob ability on .something never before shown by the surfer.

BFR can win it. Just not in the way you say.

I agree.

The Great Galen
Doesn't the gem prevent BRF if im not mistaken?

Knowsbleed33
Cyttorak has teleported Juggernaut places. It can't prevent a BFR. But Cyttorak could just send him back if he so chooses.

illadelph12
Originally posted by rotiart
Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.


Forum Rules... Gotcha, except that in this case it contradicts itself. Flash HAS used his speed before.. and does do the prescribed act.. Surfer doesn't... its possibly within his powerset... yet you don't know since he's never done what you describe.. so its an "assumed" ability based on something thats not verified he has/ or can do. And second... even assuming he could do it... its still not within the charatcer's personality... bloodlusted or not.

Note: I am not saying there aren't other ways for him to win... but its like saying surfer could do superman type million punches per second... since he has the super strength and speed.. but has never shown he can.. or would do it... you're basing this blob ability on .something never before shown by the surfer.

BFR can win it. Just not in the way you say.

I'd actually disagree. Surfer does transmute objects to restrain opponents, be it an opponent's own armor:

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/1543/silversurfer199511020tj7.jpg

Or creating enclosures to protect people:

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/3329/silversurfer04316hm7.jpg

Now, has he created this specific object? No. However, he's turned treasure to sand, people to stone, bullets to daisies, etc., etc. Creating a giant rubber cement ball isn't outside the realm of possibility, and Surfer does restrain his opponents on occasion. It's a perfectly logical attack.

Juk3n
Full use of Abilities - as yet written or not Radd wins - matter manipulation/creation is going to be the key factor in a battle like this..

and only one of them can do that!

Surfer can just sit up high think up imaginative ways to imobalize/incapacitate WWH -

1/10 for WWH - the 1 being the time when Surfer feels brave enough to swoop low and Hulk catches him. Crumple ftw!

llagrok
Ill, what if the Hulk ate it?

illadelph12
Originally posted by llagrok
Ill, what if the Hulk ate it?

Well, Surfer could either reform it, or give it a property so that it's regenerative, so the more Hulk chews/ingests it the more it reforms back to it's original dimensions, or possibly even increases in diameter. Hulk would be perpetually stuck in a 30 foot tall, 30 foot wide, regenerating ball of insanely sticky rubber cement.

It wouldn't kill Hulk, or even hurt him, but it would leave him harmless, useless, and pretty much defenseless. All the strength in the world isn't going to help against a substance that isn't effected by blunt force. The only way for Hulk to get out would be for him to burn off the adhesive or use a solvent, and that's not in his ability set, even with the Gem of Cytorrak. The Gem is essentially redundant in that regard.

Brains over brawn.

llagrok
Well said.

carnage52
hulk rips norrins head off.

King Kandy
What if the hulk burrowed?

llagrok
Originally posted by King Kandy
What if the hulk burrowed?

Burrowed? Surfer can't create a crater?

psycho gundam
Originally posted by illadelph12
Well, Surfer could either reform it, or give it a property so that it's regenerative, so the more Hulk chews/ingests it the more it reforms back to it's original dimensions, or possibly even increases in diameter. Hulk would be perpetually stuck in a 30 foot tall, 30 foot wide, regenerating ball of insanely sticky rubber cement.

It wouldn't kill Hulk, or even hurt him, but it would leave him harmless, useless, and pretty much defenseless. All the strength in the world isn't going to help against a substance that isn't effected by blunt force. The only way for Hulk to get out would be for him to burn off the adhesive or use a solvent, and that's not in his ability set, even with the Gem of Cytorrak. The Gem is essentially redundant in that regard.

Brains over brawn.

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/3716/firexr7.th.jpg

Lord Feron
whoa didn't know juggs could do that. Illadelph I havent read through all the posts but maybe a sonic clap would allow him to break free. Neither blunt of shape just sound to break out of whatever that magical gooeyness you are talking about =D.

illadelph12
Originally posted by psycho gundam
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/3716/firexr7.th.jpg

These "energy globules" wouldn't help if the amorphous mass is regenerative.

Also given the 10 yard diameter, and the fact he'd be incased in the blob like a cocoon, he'd still be trapped, as the globules seem to either detonate on impact or are simple projectiles, and the blob would simply reform after they pass though it.

The scan is inconsequential.

illadelph12
Originally posted by Lord Feron
whoa didn't know juggs could do that. Illadelph I havent read through all the posts but maybe a sonic clap would allow him to break free. Neither blunt of shape just sound to break out of whatever that magical gooeyness you are talking about =D.

The mechanics for that aren't really there. How effective would a sonic clap be in the middle of a pool of regenerating rubber cement? Not to mention the fact the substance would be adhering to Hulk's hands making it extremely hard to clap them or cause any mass displacement necessary for the clap to be effective, as well as muffling the sound. It would be like you or I clapping our hands at the bottom of a swimming pool full of pudding, but the pudding is constantly reforming and super adhesive.

The Great Galen
Blob doesn't seem likly to me, if it was the case why not use it agaisnt Thanos or anyone else lower then hulks level of strength.

horrorwolf
In any typical physical confrontation WWH takes the majority.

Other other idea like super bubble imprisonmen and crap like that...go Surfers way for what could be considered a BFR or Stalemate. WWH is unlikely to either escape or be harmed.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by illadelph12
These "energy globules" wouldn't help if the amorphous mass is regenerative.

Also given the 10 yard diameter, and the fact he'd be incased in the blob like a cocoon, he'd still be trapped, as the globules seem to either detonate on impact or are simple projectiles, and the blob would simply reform after they pass though it.

The scan is inconsequential. uumm,,yeah it will considering that in the scan the field surrounding the juggernaut at least provides him with enough room to let off a thunder clap, further removing the gum/bubble. anyway, neither the hulk or the juggernaut will be totally immobilized by that stuff at all.

illadelph12
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Blob doesn't seem likly to me, if it was the case why not use it agaisnt Thanos or anyone else lower then hulks level of strength.

Because unlike Hulk, Thanos isn't a one-trick pony. Thanos also has matter transmutation and energy manipulation powers that are equal if not more formidable than Surfer's own powers, as well as being physically superior. This method of restraint rather than assault is best used against characters that are simply brutes (Juggernaut, Hulk, Thing, Colossus, etc), and is in line with Surfer's character as a reluctant combatant and pacifist, as well as utilized by Surfer on panel in canon stroies. It's a perfectly logical, and substantiated on-panel, manner of attack.

It's not glamorous or epic, but it's extremely effective.

Brains over brawn.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by illadelph12
Because unlike Hulk, Thanos isn't a one-trick pony. Thanos also has matter transmutation and energy manipulation powers that are equal if not more formidable than Surfer's own powers, as well as being physically superior. This method of restraint rather than assault is best used against characters that are simply brutes (Juggernaut, Hulk, Thing, Colossus, etc), and is in line with Surfer's character as a reluctant combatant and pacifist, as well as utilized by Surfer on panel in canon stroies. It's a perfectly logical, and substantiated on-panel, manner of attack.

It's not glamorous or epic, but it's extremely effective.

Brains over brawn. unlit the hulk gets so frustrated that he starts to generate gamma radiation....

illadelph12
Originally posted by psycho gundam
uumm,,yeah it will considering that in the scan the field surrounding the juggernaut at least provides him with enough room to let off a thunder clap, further removing the gum/bubble. anyway, neither the hulk or the juggernaut will be totally immobilized by that stuff at all.

Which would still prove ineffective as the blob would simply reform or Surfer could just create another and incase it in a forcefield or metal if necessary, though it's highly unlikely it would be necessary given the sound dampening properties of such a substance and it's amorphous consistency. Surfer could just trap him inside a giant vibranium sphere or spherical forcefield filled with the rubber cement substance, which would make Hulk's situation even worse.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
unlit the hulk gets so frustrated that he starts to generate gamma radiation....

Which Surfer can simply syphon off out-right.

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/...98901921ts2.jpg

Not to mention Surfer can render himself intangible or simply phase through any attack that somehow came his way, however unlikely, as all of this is transpiring.

There's no logical reason this version of Hulk would be any threat to Surfer whatsoever.

Ptr_Grifin
Originally posted by illadelph12
Which Surfer can simply syphon off out-right.

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/...98901921ts2.jpg


You need to post the whole link. When you copy and pasted it puts the "..." in the URL bar, instead of the rest of the link.

illadelph12
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
You need to post the whole link. When you copy and pasted it puts the "..." in the URL bar, instead of the rest of the link.

My apologies:

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/2937/theincrediblehulkv22503oj5.jpg

Oh, and just in case it's offered as a counter, no, Surfer doesn't have to be in direct contact to drain a beings energies:

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/9910/silversurfer198901921ts2.jpg

He can draw them remotely as well.

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