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Some spoilers of characters from MGS4, so don't check if you don't want some secrets about them spoiled.




The renegade Foxhound and the two intruders of Shadow moses face off against the B&B unit and their superiors. (Plus Old Snake and Raiden)

You simply state who wins in the matches that are already put in there, then if you feel like it, you can match the survivors against each other to see which team prevails.


MGS1: Gray Fox vs Raiden : MGS4

Solid Snake vs Old Snake.

Liquid Snake vs Liquid Ocelot. (Unarmed, since we don't see anything else from LO.)

Vulcan Raven vs Raging Raven.

Ocelot vs Laughing Octopus.

Sniper Wolf vs Crying Wolf.

Psycho Mantis vs Screaming Mantis.

Since Decoy Octopus is basically worthless, I'll just put Gray Fox back again...

Gray Fox vs Vamp. (One with Vamp as he normally is, and one when his nanomachines are suppressed.


Every fight is where you fight the characters in MGS1. So Gray Fox matches = Hal's Laboratory, etc.

Well seeing how Psycho Mantis was controlling Screaming Mantis....

I also believe Raiden was a lot stronger

Very true Mairuzu.

MGS1: Gray Fox vs Raiden : MGS4
---Judging from what ive seen in the game, raiden was a lot stronger than gray fox

Solid Snake vs Old Snake.
---Solid snake takes the cake

Liquid Snake vs Liquid Ocelot. (Unarmed, since we don't see anything else from LO.)
--- If you base it off the final battle, Liquid ocelot was tougher than liquid snake

Vulcan Raven vs Raging Raven.
---I'm gonna have to go with Raging raven because of her speed and flight ability


Ocelot vs Laughing Octopus.
---This sounds like an interesting fight, i really don't know...


Sniper Wolf vs Crying Wolf.
---Well seeing how crying wolf has the machine to guard her

then again Sniperwolf has very good accuracy



Psycho Mantis vs Screaming Mantis.
well seeing how psycho mantis was controlling screaming mantis....

Since Decoy Octopus is basically worthless, I'll just put Gray Fox back again...

Gray Fox vs Vamp. (One with Vamp as he normally is, and one when his nanomachines are suppressed.
---- Gray fox

MGS1: Gray Fox vs Raiden : MGS4
Gray Fox, Raiden might've owned those Gekkos but when it came to fighting someone half decent he got owned.
Solid Snake vs Old Snake.
Well, they're essentially the same person so I'm gonna go with Old Snake. His only real disadvantage is back pains, as long as he keeps poppin' that syringe in. Besides, he has the solid eye and octocamo.
Liquid Snake vs Liquid Ocelot. (Unarmed, since we don't see anything else from LO.)
Going to have to say Liquid ocelot. The guy can take a hit, and he's as limber as ever.
Vulcan Raven vs Raging Raven.
Tough call, and I don't know where this fight is taking place. But if I had to venture at a guess I'd say Raging Raven. She's got speed and the snow on her side, if she flies high enough she might be able to become pretty much invisible to Vulcan, and sneak attack him with the grenade launcher. If she flies low though Vulcan will tear her up.
Ocelot vs Laughing Octopus.
Laughing octopus for sure. Octocamo and rolling ball of death lead to a quick win. Aside from that Ocelot only has a six-shot, and she can deflect bullets.
Sniper Wolf vs Crying Wolf.
Depends, if Crying wolf is smart she'll just charge at Sniper and beat the shat out of her. But if she tries to snipe I think Sniper wolf might win.
Psycho Mantis vs Screaming Mantis.
I guess psycho since he's controlling her.

Gray Fox vs Vamp. (One with Vamp as he normally is, and one when his nanomachines are suppressed.
Gray Fox for the win, Raiden was stupid and didn't finish it when he had the chance. Besides I think GF is the better fighter out of Raiden and him. So GF gets Vamp down and lops off his head, end of story.

Interesting views guys.


Oh, and for the sake of the fight (since it's already established he'd control her), let's make Psycho Mantis unable to control Screaming Mantis, and they'll have to match each other with their powers. (Like, shooting electricity, moving objects, throwing knives, controlling nanomachines, etc.)

If he wasn't controlling her



he'd control her right away hahahahah

I'd like to focus more on Grey fox vs Raiden...

Raiden seems more skilled with his sword...

for crying out loud he used his foot! and his mouth!

not to mention stopping outer haven from hitting snake... i mean come on, he also lived through multible stabs wounds in and out

loss two arms...

one of which he cut off himself


Raiden wins

Those are some good points for Raiden. Another one to prove his awesome swordsmanship is that he defeated Solidus 6 years earlier, while Solidus had a powered suit that enhanced all his abilities, two snake arms (similar to Laughing Octopus') and two swords. Now he has 5/6 years of more experienced and training, and he has an exoskeleton himself which increases all his abilities.

agreed

I think Raiden outclasses GF in MGS4, as Mair stated why...that guy can take a hell of a beating and still gets up to fight again.

Yeah but the problem is when he gets up to fight he gets his ass handed to him. He can take on mindless Gekko's and frogs, but he got owned both times he fought Vamp.

he's beaten vamp 3 times already

and vamp is not an easy target

Think of it this way, whos alive right now?

I never quite got this one, was Vamp faking loss the first time Raiden and he fought in MGS4? (Where he fell backwards, and Raiden did his victory pose thing). Did he sustain enough damage to have to re-awaken with his nanos, or did he fake unconsciousness because he wanted Naomi to get away?

Originally posted by Mairuzu
Think of it this way, whos alive right now?
Raiden because he's a frickin' robot. Raiden got the crap kicked out of him both times he fought Vamp. If he had the same system as Vamp in that second fight he'd be dead. He got his frickin' hands stabbed into his back. Raiden's just not that good of a fighter compared to someone of GF's caliber.

He still has his heart in tact.

We don't exactly know how good GF would have been against vamp... we'll never know

He only got one hand stabbed into his back, that was actually kinda funny


Again, vamp isn't just any soldier, hes very skilled.

Originally posted by Mairuzu
He still has his heart in tact.

We don't exactly know how good GF would have been against vamp... we'll never know

He only got one hand stabbed into his back, that was actually kinda funny


Again, vamp isn't just any soldier, hes very skilled.
He had both stabbed into his back, watch the video again. Vamp is skilled yes, but are you saying the GF isn't? Raiden relies too heavily upon his robotic form to save him, he has shat for defenses. Imagine what would've happened in either of his vamp fights if he hadn't had that suit. He just took pretty much everything Vamp threw at him, now that's all fine and dandy when you're getting little knives thrown at you, but when you have a blade go through you, not quite the same affect.

Of course GF is skilled, thats a give in


GF without a suit is nothing as well

and did you not see raiden still got up and fought after sticking a blade inside himself? or cutting off his own arm?

or getting stabbed by 4 enemies?

Originally posted by Mairuzu
Of course GF is skilled, thats a give in


GF without a suit is nothing as well

and did you not see raiden still got up and fought after sticking a blade inside himself? or cutting off his own arm?

or getting stabbed by 4 enemies?
I'm pretty sure after he stabbed himself and Vamp the fight ended, could be wrong but if it didn't end there it ended shortly after. Though it is true losing his arm did little. I'm not talking about a petty little stab though, I'm talking about Gray Fox lopping stuff off, or sticking stuff straight through him. Raiden stabbed himself, and didn't seem to even try to block Vamp's blades. GF on the other hand dodges like crazy, he relies heavily on defense as well as offense. I just don't think Raiden has enough defensive skills to win it for him.

It would be a great battle, no doubt.

We actually haven't even seen Raiden take on bullets but he is very fast as well, when saving snake.. you didnt even see him coming it was just a flash

Can Vamp be killed with his nanomachines on, if his head is cut off? Or is that not possible...
You'd think it was, and Raiden has a sword, but they never seem to think of it as an option.

IMO no one can match Snake's will to finish the battle.

Ahem...Sorry I'm on a MGS high.

Originally posted by kamikz
Can Vamp be killed with his nanomachines on, if his head is cut off? Or is that not possible...
You'd think it was, and Raiden has a sword, but they never seem to think of it as an option.
It's an option, I dunno why it wouldn't work, if it didn't it'd sure take awhile to regenerate.

Originally posted by kamikz
Can Vamp be killed with his nanomachines on, if his head is cut off? Or is that not possible...
You'd think it was, and Raiden has a sword, but they never seem to think of it as an option.

its possible it might grow back, just a longer recovery

MGS1: Gray Fox vs Raiden : MGS4
Grey Fox

Solid Snake vs Old Snake.
Solid Snake

Liquid Snake vs Liquid Ocelot. (Unarmed, since we don't see anything else from LO.)
Liquid Ocelot

Vulcan Raven vs Raging Raven.
Raging Raven

Ocelot vs Laughing Octopus.
Ocelot

Sniper Wolf vs Crying Wolf.
Sniper Wolf (same way I beat her snipering)

Psycho Mantis vs Screaming Mantis.
Psycho Mantis

Gray Fox vs Vamp. (One with Vamp as he normally is, and one when his nanomachines are suppressed.
Grey Fox both

I personally think "immortal" Vamp would kick Gray Fox's ass. There is the fact that he's, as said, basically immortal, he can perfectly predict his opponent's moves and can thus dodge almost anything not coming from Raiden given his extreme level of speed, and there is of course the fact that he completely handed Solid his ass when years earlier the same Solid was capable of taking on Deepthroat himself.

Originally posted by HomoSuperior
I personally think "immortal" Vamp would kick Gray Fox's ass. There is the fact that he's, as said, basically immortal, he can perfectly predict his opponent's moves and can thus dodge almost anything not coming from Raiden given his extreme level of speed, and there is of course the fact that he completely handed Solid his ass when years earlier the same Solid was capable of taking on Deepthroat himself.

Until Vamp can see through Stealth camo, detect lighting fast movements that out due his own and survive decapitation, Vamp is gonna lose to Gray Fox. Raiden's suit is different from Gray Fox's.
EDIT: Gray Fox is smarter than Raiden, battlewise. And Raiden is stronger.

Homo's got a very good point here.

If you guys ever play the MGS 1 gamecube version, Solid Snake hands greyfox's ass on a silver platter. He bitched him if you've seen the cutscenes.

And remember this, Raiden, in MGS 2, beat Solidus(whose the dominant clone, not solid or liquid) in a fair melee combat. The very same Solidus who was enhanced with an exosuit of his own. And this was Raiden *without* all the enhancements he received in MGS 4.

By Logic, Raiden, before his exosuit, easily surpassed Solid/Old Snake by a definate margin because of him defeating Solidus. Plus add the exosuit, and you got one NASTY mofo here.

And this goes to show how uber Vamp and Raiden is compared to well....EVERYBODY. Especially including Solidus. Who could take on Vamp when we've all seen what he's done to MGS 4 Raiden?

Again by canon and logic according to the feats shown throughout the series, Vamp and Raiden are two of the best warriors in the entire series.

Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
Homo's got a very good point here.

If you guys ever play the MGS 1 gamecube version, Solid Snake hands greyfox's ass on a silver platter. He bitched him if you've seen the cutscenes.

And remember this, Raiden, in MGS 2, beat Solidus(whose the dominant clone, not solid or liquid) in a fair melee combat. The very same Solidus who was enhanced with an exosuit of his own. And this was Raiden *without* all the enhancements he received in MGS 4.

By Logic, Raiden, before his exosuit, easily surpassed Solid/Old Snake by a definate margin because of him defeating Solidus. Plus add the exosuit, and you got one NASTY mofo here.

And this goes to show how uber Vamp and Raiden is compared to well....EVERYBODY. Especially including Solidus. Who could take on Vamp when we've all seen what he's done to MGS 4 Raiden?

Again by canon and logic according to the feats shown throughout the series, Vamp and Raiden are two of the best warriors in the entire series.
So you're basing most everything on Solidus supposedly being superior? Guess what, Liquid was supposedly superior to Solid, and who won that affair? Solid. In fact he beat Liquid multiple times, who's to say he couldn't have taken on Solidus? Besides, if I remember correctly Solidus wasn't killed by Raiden, he jumped off a building and died shortly after the fall.

Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
He didn't jump off. He unconsciously fell off after Raiden sliced his spine. And where did you get liquid being superior to solid? In MGS 2, it was established that Solidus was the superior of the two. He even said himself that he was a "different game than Liquid" to paraphrase.

Anyway, even if solid is the inferior clone, it's still a very bad showing for Greyfox.
*sigh* it's old news that liquid was the superior one, it states it at the end of MGS1 I believe, where you hear Ocelot talking to Solidus. And how do you figure Solidus fell off unconsciously, he stopped himself from falling and then stared at Raiden before letting go and letting himself fall.
He almost fell because of Raiden but in the end he off'd himself. Saying Solid could take on Gray Fox and Raiden could beat Solidus, so since Solidus is theoretically stronger Snake, Raiden is better than Snake which means he can beat Gray Fox. Ok...that's some damn twisted logic. Besides Solid shooting at Solidus from a distance we haven't seen them fight, so you obviously can't know which is stronger. I could just as easily say that Solid could beat Raiden in MGS4 because he took out Vamp so much easier than Raiden did, with next to no injury. And just because one person can take on GF doesn't mean someone as strong as that person or stronger could. Kinda like rock, paper,scissors. Rock can take scissors and scissors can take paper, with your logic rock would beat paper, but in actuality paper can take rock. It's just certain advantages the individuals have.

Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
Homo's got a very good point here.

No.

Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
If you guys ever play the MGS 1 gamecube version, Solid Snake hands greyfox's ass on a silver platter.

Before the fight could enter it's conclusion, Gray Fox's experimental exoskeleton went haywire from the feedback. Causing Fox to scream out in pain. So no.

Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
And remember this, Raiden, in MGS 2, beat Solidus(whose the dominant clone, not solid or liquid) in a fair melee combat.

Anger can easily cause a man to loose his power and cloud their vision.

Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
By Logic, Raiden, before his exosuit, easily surpassed Solid/Old Snake by a definate margin because of him defeating Solidus. Plus add the exosuit, and you got one NASTY mofo here.

As much of a Raiden fanboy, I would love to believe this.
But no. I'd say Solidus' anger got the best of him.

Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
Again by canon and logic according to the feats shown throughout the series, Vamp and Raiden are two of the best warriors in the entire series.

That the dumbest shit I ever heard.
You're giving Raiden and Vamp WAY too much credit.
If so, how the hell did Vamp get trapped in a CQC hold by Solid Snake?
EDIT: I glad there are MG fans like Menetnashté that use common sense.

Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
Please show me proof that Liquid is superior to both Solid and Solidus.

There really is none. Solidus was the most perfect balance.

Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
I have no problem with that. But let's calm down here alright?

Yeah, lets go out and drink ReGain and eat some Hide-Chan Noodles.

Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
Relax.

What twisted logic? There's nothing totally stupid from what I've said. How am I way off base here? Please show me proof that Liquid is superior to both Solid and Solidus. maybe I'm not totally right, I have no problem with that. But let's calm down here alright?
I'm not angry, I just find your logic for Raiden's victory so odd. And read over my post again, I never said Liquid was stronger than Solidus, just that they said he was stronger than solid which you can find here.
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And your logic of how Raiden would win is pretty odd. I see where you're coming from but you're relying upon to many assumptions.

And Old Snake used CQC on Vamp after he immobilized him by gunning him down before his nanomachines revived him.

How could Liquid lose to Solid when he's the superior clone. Was it because of his inferiority complex?

Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
And Old Snake used CQC on Vamp after he immobilized him by gunning him down before his nanomachines revived him.

Solid Snake caught him in the hold after he stood up.

Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
How could Liquid lose to Solid when he's the superior clone. Was it because of his inferiority complex?

Anger clouding his vision of thought.

What anger exactly? Can you specify? Cause If I remember right, he was quite cool, and still had hope that he would find what he needed inside Raiden's body.


I'm not sure, but wouldn't Raiden be a little pissed of himself, recently having found out his girlfriend was a spy from the Patriots told to be with him, Snake has disappeared into the sea, the Patriots have played him all this time and basically made a fool out of him (as well as turning his whole life upside down) and Solidus telling him he was the one who killed his parents.


And guys, the quote saying Solidus is the superior clone isn't combat related. It's because he was completely identical to Big Boss. A clone is supposed to be exactly like the person it was made from, Solid and Liquid were different, Solidus was not. Thus, he was the perfect clone.
As much is stated in MGS4, nothing suggest he was a superior combatant, without the suit at least. Him saying he's a whole different game from Liquid doesn't make it so.

True, he never was mad much.

Too many ****ing fights for me to judge. *Passes*

You suck!