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They fight at the North Pole and Magneto begins the fight with his force field raised.

Who wins?

Supes wears team 1 out.

Superman 10/10. I dont seem those two stopping him.

team might scrape a couple of wins i see apoc giving supes the most problems tho.

Originally posted by carnage52
team might scrape a couple of wins i see apoc giving supes the most problems tho.

By doing what, crying himself to sleep that he's the oldest virgin in comicdom thusly appealing to Superman's mercy?

Superman takes it

team for the majority, magnus is superman's major problem me thinks.

if the duo is willing to co-exist they can come up with a myriad of plans that would work on the man of steel, one from the eop of my head would be for nur to turn into a big pile of iron fillings for magneto to exploit.

apocalypse can be any metalic substance and any abundance of those substances.

Magneto alone with his shields up could get some wins over superman along with apocalypse who can grant himself any kind of power.

I agree that superman could get some wins but it would most likely be at least 1 or 2. I dont even think wwh could be this team over 3 times.

Team 8/10.

Originally posted by carver9
Magneto alone with his shields up could get some wins over superman along with apocalypse who can grant himself any kind of power.

I agree that superman could get some wins but it would most likely be at least 1 or 2. I dont even think wwh could be this team over 3 times.

Team 8/10. are you serious? superman blitzes them 10/10

Originally posted by Starscream M
are you serious? superman blitzes them 10/10

You do know that magneto can fly 99% the speed of light right. Apocalypse is like one of the most durable characters in comic and basically can control his entire body molecular structure let alone grant himself any power that he choses. Apocalypse can easily tp him while magneto can mess and rip every piece of metal from his body.

Do me a favor, go to the doctor poloris respect thread and found out how magnetic powers work against superman and once you are done with that remember this, magneto>>>doctor poloris.

Team wins

team

Originally posted by carver9
You do know that magneto can fly 99% the speed of light right. Apocalypse is like one of the most durable characters in comic and basically can control his entire body molecular structure let alone grant himself any power that he choses. Apocalypse can easily tp him while magneto can mess and rip every piece of metal from his body.

Do me a favor, go to the doctor poloris respect thread and found out how magnetic powers work against superman and once you are done with that remember this, magneto>>>doctor poloris.

I fixed my post, I made a mistake and said adamantium

Supes wins this.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Supes wins this.

I disagree, if they were soloing this I would give superman a majority but together it isnt to many people out there that could take them.

Originally posted by carver9
I disagree, if they were soloing this I would give superman a majority but together it isnt to many people out there that could take them. No problem. I respect your viewpoint. I just think these characters might struggle to keep him down and when he hits them it definitely will hurt.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No problem. I respect your viewpoint. I just think these characters might struggle to keep him down and when he hits them it definitely will hurt.

but magneto has his forcefield up. I know its a plot device but the threadster started the battle off saying this. Without it magneto gets one shotted

Properly written, Apocalypse would be the bigger problem for Superman. All what he has, powers, resources, Supreman might get into big trouble, especially those two teaming up.

Team should win.

Originally posted by carver9
but magneto has his forcefield up. I know its a plot device but the threadster started the battle off saying this. Without it magneto gets one shotted You really think magneto's shield can withstand heat vision blasts over and over again?

Originally posted by quanchi112
You really think magneto's shield can withstand heat vision blasts over and over again?

yes I do since magneto shield has withstood an attack from galactus.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Properly written, Apocalypse would be the bigger problem for Superman. All what he has, powers, resources, Supreman might get into big trouble, especially those two teaming up.

Team should win.

notworthy

Originally posted by carver9
yes I do since magneto shield has withstood an attack from galactus. Id like to see the scan so I can be aware of the context behind it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Id like to see the scan so I can be aware of the context behind it.

I dont have a scanner but Im going to look in his bio to see if its in there. Its a big feat so it should be in his bio.

Be right back.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Id like to see the scan so I can be aware of the context behind it.

Magneto and Xavier were attacked by Galactus in Secret Wars, his shield saved them, it however was not one of Galactus stronger attacks.

His shield has withstood hits from Uni-Powered Spiderman and Phoenix to name a few.

Its not in his bio. If anyone have the scan of magneto forcefield survive an attack from galactus can you put it up for me.

Originally posted by Mindset
Magneto and Xavier were attacked by Galactus in Secret Wars, his shield saved them, it however was not one of Galactus stronger attacks.

His shield has withstood hits from Uni-Powered Spiderman and Phoenix to name a few.

Thanks

Team for the win

hmmm . . .

if some think apoc beats gladiator, then apoc+mags should OWN superman . . .

Can't believe I'm doing this, but...
Originally posted by carver9
Magneto alone with his shields up could get some wins over superman along with apocalypse who can grant himself any kind of power.

I agree that superman could get some wins but it would most likely be at least 1 or 2. I dont even think wwh could be this team over 3 times.

Team 8/10.
QFT.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Can't believe I'm doing this, but...

QFT.







you didn't just quote . . . carver, did you?

jawdrop







































heh

the duo would give supes some trouble no doubt.

Originally posted by leonidas
heh

the duo would give supes some trouble no doubt.
Doctor Polaris at the South Pole KO'd Superman. And did it pretty easily.

Magneto would do the same at the North Pole. Especially since he starts with shields up. Adding Apocalypse makes it overkill.

Originally posted by carver9
yes I do since magneto shield has withstood an attack from galactus.


I agree but magneto has even held off thor and his hammer attacks. But only for a short period of time. In the meantime what kinda of damage output can they muster to take out supes..

Originally posted by zeel
I agree but magneto has even held off thor and his hammer attacks. But only for a short period of time. In the meantime what kinda of damage output can they muster to take out supes..

Mags alone can disrupt supes bio force field, blind supes or just nuke him to death, your choice.

Magneto could get a easy majority over supes IF he use his powers right and keep his force field up.

Magneto is doctor poloris on steroids and he's a team buster. I love when he fought the avengers that included thor, great showing for him.

Originally posted by leonidas
you didn't just quote . . . carver, did you?

jawdrop







































heh

the duo would give supes some trouble no doubt.

I'm always right.

That is simple. Ol' blue lips drops Kal with his left hook, after morphing his fist partially into kryptonite....

Originally posted by Survivor19
That is simple. Ol' blue lips drops Kal with his left hook, after morphing his fist partially into kryptonite....

Can apocalypse do that?

most likely not, he doesn't know the atomic makeup of kryptonite or it's existence for that matter. and even if he did, if he morphed his atoms into a chunk of it, it wouldn't be radioactive since it was the explosion of krypton that made the fragments radioactive.

it'd be better to just have magneto attempt to mess with the bio aura superman has, or his brain's electrical activity so apocalypse could morph his arms into adamantium tipped piledrivers and go to town on his face.

I don't really view these v.s threads anymore, and after reading the majority of the posts in here, claiming magneto and apocalypse would beat superman, I now remember why I don't view these threads very often ermm

is that supposed to mean something?

just state you opinion on the fight or present some sort of reason why whatever character you support should win, if you can't do that...keep it moving.

Superman.

Poccy doesn't need to know. What do you think he has TP for?

Originally posted by Prof. Wagstaff
I don't really view these v.s threads anymore, and after reading the majority of the posts in here, claiming magneto and apocalypse would beat superman, I now remember why I don't view these threads very often ermm



Anyways Supes probably takes this.

How when an holding back doctor poloris almost killed superman in every encounter they have had?

When you answer that remember this, Magneto>>doctor poloris.

Supes can do several things to Magento, like asphyxiate him, implode his lungs (if he's blood lusted).

It's arguable, but his HV could bypass his shields given that there's examples/evidence, they work like light.

And he could probably wear down his shields with brute force, using the simplest strategy.

The duo puts up a good fight, but in the end they would most likely go down.

Originally posted by Allankles
It's arguable, but his HV could bypass his shields given that there's examples/evidence, they work like light.

No

Originally posted by carver9
Mags alone can disrupt supes bio force field, blind supes or just nuke him to death, your choice.

Magneto could get a easy majority over supes IF he use his powers right and keep his force field up.



Removing his bio aura isn't an automatic win.

You do know his durability is more than just his bio aura?

He's tanked magical attacks that bypass his bio aura from dark gods and demons, even lethal magical matter transmutation without the benefit of his aura.

So it wouldn't leave a top condition KMC Supes helpless.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
No

No to what? You do know light bypasses his shields? And Supes has shown that his HV can work like light, bypassing physical barriers without damaging them.

Originally posted by Allankles
No to what? You do know light bypasses his shields? And Supes has shown that his HV can work like light, bypassing physical barriers without damaging them.

Or not.

Originally posted by Allankles
Removing his bio aura isn't an automatic win.

You do know his durability is more than just his bio aura?

He's tanked magical attacks that bypass his bio aura from dark gods and demons, even lethal magical matter transmutation without the benefit of his aura.

So it wouldn't leave a top condition KMC Supes helpless.

^ in those instances was it stated that the magic negated his field leaving his body's natural durability, or was it assumed that magic did that?

it could have just weakened the field or just effect the field's wavelengths so the attacks would impact superman like a bullet leaving a massive bruise when someone wears a kevlar vest.

dd's punches did, it got even worse when superman's energy ebbed.

It's speculation given supporting evidence. And it's a fact that light bypasses Magneto's shield: common sense.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
^ in those instances was it stated that the magic negated his field leaving his body's natural durability, or was it assumed that magic did that?

it could have just weakened the field or just effect the field's wavelengths so the attacks would impact superman like a bullet leaving a massive bruise when someone wears a kevlar vest.

Magic is not bound by physical laws so it is able to bypass his energy shield. And yes in several instances (like the transmutation) his flesh was getting warped, but he soaked up the damage.

Originally posted by Allankles
It's speculation given supporting evidence. And it's a fact that light bypasses Magneto's shield: common sense.

Doesn't change the fact that Superman's heat vision won't go through.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Doesn't change the fact that Superman's heat vision won't go through.


That's not a fact.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Doesn't change the fact that Superman's heat vision won't go through. yeah, heat vision is like visible microwaves or something, magneto creates a barrier that blocks out all the wavelengths that he does not want to pass through.

Originally posted by Allankles
Magic is not bound by physical laws so it is able to bypass his energy shield. And yes in several instances (like the transmutation) his flesh was getting warped, but he soaked up the damage. do you have a scan of the latter instance s'il vous plaƮt?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
yeah, heat vision is like visible microwaves or something, magneto creates a barrier that blocks out all the wavelengths that he does not want to pass through.

Except light. I was using an instance where his HV didn't act like microwaves, but high energy light.

Originally posted by Allankles
Removing his bio aura isn't an automatic win.

You do know his durability is more than just his bio aura?

He's tanked magical attacks that bypass his bio aura from dark gods and demons, even lethal magical matter transmutation without the benefit of his aura.

So it wouldn't leave a top condition KMC Supes helpless.

So taking away his bio aura and throwing a piece of sharp metal at him at the speed of light wouldnt kill superman.

Superman has no way of beating mags with his forcefield up whereas mags has many options on the table.

He could basically just repeat what doctor poloris did to him a thousand times, beat him to death with metal until he passes out.

Originally posted by Allankles
Except light. I was using an instance where his HV didn't act like microwaves, but high energy light.

that would be like a beam of light from the sun focused through a magnifying glass. sunlight is like 100 watts per square inch, so when you focus it with a 4-5 inch magnifier into an area smaller than an inch it gets multiplied.

a beam like that is nothing against a simple microwave burst in one second, and should get refracted by the electromagnetic shield.

Originally posted by Allankles
That's not a fact.

It will be once he tries to use it.

Sure thing Magneto's shields can hold up to HV, at least for some time.
Fortunately, he won't need to hold them for long.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
do you have a scan of the latter instance s'il vous plaƮt?

Here's the scan.

http://g.imagehost.org/t/0249/supermanvol2047p16ku8.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
So taking away his bio aura and throwing a piece of sharp metal at him at the speed of light wouldnt kill superman.

No.

Originally posted by carver9
Superman has no way of beating mags with his forcefield up whereas mags has many options on the table.

He has fewer options than Superman. For Mags to win, the least likely scenarios need to be put in place: as is evident by the posts in the first 2 pages of this thread.


Superman can easily asphyxiate Magento by manipulating air.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
that would be like a beam of light from the sun focused through a magnifying glass. sunlight is like 100 watts per square inch, so when you focus it with a 4-5 inch magnifier into an area smaller than an inch it gets multiplied.

a beam like that is nothing against a simple microwave burst in one second, and should get refracted by the electromagnetic shield.

I've no doubt his electromagnetic shield can stop all soughts of electromagnetic wavelengths, but it obviously doesn't keep out the wavelenghts of light.

A being that can manipulate light can bypass any shield that doesn't keep out light, which is my point.

Originally posted by Allankles
I've no doubt his electromagnetic shield can stop all soughts of electromagnetic wavelengths, but it obviously doesn't keep out the wavelenghts of light.

A being that can manipulate light can bypass any shield that doesn't keep out light, which is my point.
Uh huh...

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/6231/magcontrolsphotons0ki.jpg
http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=magcontrolsphotons24qd.jpg

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/4339/tnoticehim9ea.jpg

It's just because Eric prefers it that way. Sure he can adjust it...

Originally posted by darthgoober
Uh huh...

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/6231/magcontrolsphotons0ki.jpg
http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=magcontrolsphotons24qd.jpg

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/4339/tnoticehim9ea.jpg i toldjya so.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Uh huh...

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/6231/magcontrolsphotons0ki.jpg
http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=magcontrolsphotons24qd.jpg


Photons are related to electromagnetism, Mags ability. But light passess through his shields. The evidence of this is visibility, his shields clearly don't block out light otherwise he wouldn't be able to see past his shields.

A character that can manip light (specific range of electromagnetic wavelength) can easily bypass any and all shields that allow the passage of light.

Essentially energy can stream through those open passages of radiation, as hard-light or whatever high energy light manifesation.

Originally posted by Allankles
Photons are related to electromagnetism, Mags ability. But light passess through his shields. The evidence of this is visibility, his shields clearly don't block out light otherwise he wouldn't be able to see past his shields.
Do you know what Dazzler's power is? She absorbs sound and transmutes it into LIGHT. She was shooting light at Mags, and he blocked it with his shield. Thus proving that his shield can block light.

And in the third scan, he manipulates light to become invisible...

Originally posted by Survivor19
It's just because Eric prefers it that way. Sure he can adjust it...

As he ever?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Do you know what Dazzler's power is? She absorbs sound and transmutes it into LIGHT. She was shooting light at Mags, and he blocked it with his shield. Thus proving that his shield can block light.

And in the third scan, he manipulates light to become invisible...

Light is all about visible radiation, it can't be invisible. And Mags was visible, so how was light not getting through?

so we could see him?

the aquarian also totaly negates light, and he's never been depicted as a jet black figure.

Originally posted by Allankles
Light is all about visible radiation, it can't be invisible. And Mags was visible, so how was light not getting through?

Is superman heat vision invisible

Originally posted by carver9
Is superman heat vision invisible

At times, it was shown to be. But those instances, the HV isn't very powerful.

Originally posted by Allankles
Light is all about visible radiation, it can't be invisible. And Mags was visible, so how was light not getting through?
What makes you think that light can't be invisible in a medium that features invisible people? The blasts Dazzler was shooting were light, and they didn't get through.

And do you know what a photon is? It's the basic unit of LIGHT...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon

One would assume that incidents where Magneto blocks attacks from a person who uses LIGHT would quell any speculation that Superman can BYPASS said shield by using light.....

Originally posted by carver9
Is superman heat vision invisible

He's been known to make it invisible on occasion. His HV works across several wavelengths obviously.

Superman making his HV invisible doesnt neccessarily mean it works across multiple wavelengths of energy (which it may). He could simply be making it so small that its invisible to anyone with regular eyes.

Originally posted by darthgoober
What makes you think that light can't be invisible in a medium that features invisible people? The blasts Dazzler was shooting were light, and they didn't get through.

And do you know what a photon is? It's the basic unit of LIGHT...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon

That's only part of the story. The photon is the basic unit of electromagnetic radiation period, so Mags manipulating photons should be common knowledge, obviously the writer didn't know what he was talking about because that should be the fundamentals on Mags.

Light however operates on a certain range of electromagnetic wavelengths any character capable of generating radiation on those wavelengths will bypass a shield that allows the passage of light .

Originally posted by Naija boy
Superman making his HV invisible doesnt neccessarily mean it works across multiple wavelengths of energy (which it may). He could simply be making it so small that its invisible to anyone with regular eyes.

That's possible but his vision powers overall operate on different wavelengths. His x-ray vision etc. His beams seem to have qualties of microwave and infrared radiation too.

Originally posted by Allankles
That's only part of the story. The photon is the basic unit of electromagnetic radiation period, so Mags manipulating photons should be common knowledge, obviously the writer didn't know what he was talking about because that should be the fundamentals on Mags.

Light however operates on a certain range of electromagnetic wavelengths any character capable of generating radiation on those wavelengths will bypass a shield that allows the passage of light .
You're being pretty dense about this. Light is part of the electromagnetic spectrum and Magneto can manipulate the entire electromagnetic spectrum up to and including light. I posted examples of Mag's manipulating light, if you want to ignore the obvious then that's on you...

only if their power generates harmless light with no power behind it.

Originally posted by Allankles
That's possible but his vision powers overall operate on different wavelengths. His x-ray vision etc. His beams seem to have qualties of microwave and infrared radiation too.

Any thing to support his HV in particular operating over different wavelengths aside the fact that he has made it seemingly invisible?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
only if their power generates harmless light with no power behind it.

That's not how it works with an electromagnetic shield.

Originally posted by darthgoober
You're being pretty dense about this. Light is part of the electromagnetic spectrum and Magneto can manipulate the entire electromagnetic spectrum up to and including light. I posted examples of Mag's manipulating light, if you want to ignore the obvious then that's on you...

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/6231/magcontrolsphotons0ki.jpg

My issue is with his shields (the ones that allow light to pass through) not his maniping abilities, and I'm following a logical tangent.

And it would be easy to illustrate his shields blocking light, it's obvious the writer didn't cover his bases.

you basically want it to look like a black sphere surrounding him?

Originally posted by Allankles
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/6231/magcontrolsphotons0ki.jpg

My issue is with his shields (the ones that allow light to pass through) not his maniping abilities, and I'm following a logical tangent.

And it would be easy to illustrate his shields blocking light, it's obvious the writer didn't cover his bases.
Sure he did. Dazzler shoots light and Mag's blocked her blast. Thus Mag's shield can block light.

Originally posted by Allankles
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/6231/magcontrolsphotons0ki.jpg

My issue is with his shields (the ones that allow light to pass through) not his maniping abilities, and I'm following a logical tangent.

And it would be easy to illustrate his shields blocking light, it's obvious the writer didn't cover his bases.



Omniscient narrative? The writer's intention has already been blatantly spelt out on panel. Occam's razor and all that.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Any thing to support his HV in particular operating over different wavelengths aside the fact that he has made it seemingly invisible?

When he re heat Earth after a rogue living planet had depleted the Sun's energy. That feat is a combo of infrared radiation and light radiation as the two types of radiation are necessary for heating Earth.

He's also used his HV to seal up damages in the fabric of space. So his HV is certainly more than simple heat.

Originally posted by Ouallada


Omniscient narrative? The writer's intention has already been blatantly spelt out on panel. Occam's razor and all that.

The writer shows a glaring lack of knowledge of what it means to control the electromagnetic spectrum. Magento can see through his shield therefore light (photons at that particular radiation wavelength) are getting through. I'm simply pointing out the evidence.

Occam's razor doesn't apply where logic is left out.

Originally posted by Allankles
The writer shows a glaring lack of knowledge of what it means to control the electromagnetic spectrum. Magento can see through his shield therefore light (photons at that particular radiation wavelength) are getting through. I'm simply pointing out the evidence.

Occam's razor doesn't apply where logic is left out.
So your proof that Mags can't block light is that he doesn't blind himself by blocking out all of it...

Originally posted by Allankles
The writer shows a glaring lack of knowledge of what it means to control the electromagnetic spectrum. Magento can see through his shield therefore light (photons at that particular radiation wavelength) are getting through. I'm simply pointing out the evidence.

Occam's razor doesn't apply where logic is left out.

Where is it shown that Magneto can see through said shield, and why does it matter?

I find it ironic that you argue using physics on one hand to debunk the validity of feats, and throw around statements like:



as gospel on the other.

Occam's razor means simplification as far as is required. Nothing on panel, regardless of whether or not Magneto can see through his shield, contradicts the writer. Hence, needless complications are, well, needless.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
you basically want it to look like a black sphere surrounding him?

It would help make it less ambiguous, don't you agree? We don't even know how the light is being used as a weapon is it generating deadly heat? hard-light? etc etc

Originally posted by Allankles
It would help make it less ambiguous, don't you agree? We don't even know how the light is being used as a weapon is it generating deadly heat? hard-light? etc etc
It doesn't matter HOW the light's being used when your original point was that he couldn't block light. Dazzler can't use "hard light" or anything like that...

Originally posted by Ouallada
as gospel on the other.

Occam's razor means simplification as far as is required. Nothing on panel, regardless of whether or not Magneto can see through his shield, contradicts the writer. Hence, needless complications are, well, needless.

First of all I'm playing devil's advocate. So I can accept the canonicity of the feat, but I'll readily point out the elements of the feat that raise question marks.

As far as Supes sealing up the fabric of space that is much easier to support given that Supes (even post crisis) has been known to manipulate/affect non-relative space-time.

Originally posted by Allankles
It would help make it less ambiguous, don't you agree? We don't even know how the light is being used as a weapon is it generating deadly heat? hard-light? etc etc i'm on wireless these days so i can't really scan stuff. the marvel handbook from the 80's went into a lot of detail on her abilities so i'll look over it for you.

from memory, i believe there is no heat or sound from the beams she generates, she used to use them as laser shows in her rock concerts at first. they are normal light beams, with effort and a sufficient sound to convert, she can focus the beams into cutting lasers (like she tried on mags).

Originally posted by darthgoober
It doesn't matter HOW the light's being used when your original point was that he couldn't block light. Dazzler can't use "hard light" or anything like that...

My argument obviously changed after the scans. But it's clearly something ignored by many a writer even Dazzler's light attack is ambiguous with its effects it appears to be heat energy through photon manip.

I wonder how Mags would do against an opponent that can create hard light.

Originally posted by Allankles
First of all I'm playing devil's advocate. So I can accept the canonicity of the feat, but I'll readily point out the elements of the feat that raise question marks.

As far as Supes sealing up the fabric of space that is much easier to support given that Supes (even post crisis) has been known to manipulate/affect non-relative space-time.

Which is fine. Asking for a specific artistic rendition of the feat to account for a specific scientific theory isn't necessary, though.

I can accept Superman's feat. Said acceptance is despite the obvious scientific anomalies involved, and the lack of an artistic explanation to paper them over.

Originally posted by Allankles
I wonder how Mags would do against an opponent that can create hard light. dagger's light knives shouldn't penetrate the shield.

Allankles, that's embarassing to see. You failed your logic and physics here.

Magneto has total control over electromagnetic spectrum (ok, there are limits, but still).
What eludes you here?
His shield can block light.
And can let it pass.
Why? Because he can do it that way. Why? Because he prefers it that way.
Block radiatioun with one wavelenght, only let low-intensity beams come through - it is all well within his powers. Make light go around him, so that his presense will be masked - there as well.

Total control. It's that simple.

But still, we all know there are limits as well...

Suvivor light is light, the intensity of visibilty isn't an indication of its effects.

Of course I recognize that brightness will be used to indicate the energy levels in comics but we don't know what Dazzler is doing with the light anyway.

Originally posted by darthgoober
So your proof that Mags can't block light is that he doesn't blind himself by blocking out all of it...

Not entirely. Apart from the visible light that passes through all the time, we don't know the specifics of dazzler's light attack. We don't know how Dazzler is using light (heat, hard-light etc).

Originally posted by Allankles
Not entirely. Apart from the visible light that passes through all the time, we don't know the specifics of dazzler's light attack. We don't know how Dazzler is using light (heat, hard-light etc).
She's still using light. If he can manipulate/block the particles that make up light then that's it, he can manipulate the particles of light. It doesn't matter the exact form or function, he can manipulate/block light. And he manipulated visible light in the third scan I posted, which is why he was invisible.

And forget the "etc", what are the possible effects you can come up with for DAZZLER'S attack? We've already covered that it couldn't have been hard light since she wasn't able to do that, so what effects can you come up with that wouldn't also suggest he could block Supes's heat vision?

dc light isn't the same as marvel light

Originally posted by darthgoober
She's still using light. If he can manipulate/block the particles that make up light then that's it, he can manipulate the particles of light. It doesn't matter the exact form or function, he can manipulate/block light. And he manipulated visible light in the third scan I posted, which is why he was invisible.

And forget the "etc", what are the possible effects you can come up with for DAZZLER'S attack? We've already covered that it couldn't have been hard light since she wasn't able to do that, so what effects can you come up with that wouldn't also suggest he could block Supes's heat vision?

The Dazzler scan has a degree ambiguity. I said "etc" because there are many forms of radiation that give of light both visibly and non visibly.

So how much visible and non visible light is going through his shields is unknown. That's why I said the author himself is hardly specific in his description of what Mags can do with light, like when he mentions photons (it's basic knowledge that the energy of EM radiation is in the form of photons).

Supes HV may be capable of giving off certain radiations through invisible light, and as Survivor said, there are limits to what Mags is doing with the EM spectrum.

doesnt matter if mags can block HV or not
Sure the team can put a beating on the man of steel
but the bottom line here is that they will be worn down before supes

supes wins 10/10

Originally posted by Allankles
As far as Supes sealing up the fabric of space that is much easier to support given that Supes (even post crisis) has been known to manipulate/affect non-relative space-time.
Dude if you're talking about the S'ivaa thing don't even act like it was some kind of esoteric attack. It was plain heat vision, the same type of blast he shoots out of his eyes 95% of the time.


Magneto's shielding can block anything Superman tosses at him, including his HV. Mags is amped here, and he's already got his shielding in place. Moreover, he's got Apocalypse with him to stall Supes. Team takes this 8/10 times or more.

I wonder if Apocalypse could do the body swap trick on Supes? That body definitely wouldn't burn out.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Dude if you're talking about the S'ivaa thing don't even act like it was some kind of esoteric attack. It was plain heat vision, the same type of blast he shoots out of his eyes 95% of the time.


Magneto's shielding can block anything Superman tosses at him, including his HV. Mags is amped here, and he's already got his shielding in place. Moreover, he's got Apocalypse with him to stall Supes. Team takes this 8/10 times or more.

It is esoteric, sealing up a breach in the fabric of space is esoteric, and he's done it more than once albeit not always with heat vision. Not to mention inter dimensional BFR through his vibration abilities.

As far as Magneto's shields holding up to Supes HV, that's debatable given its energy output has no upper limit as yet (hotter than stars and type II supernovas and all).

If Supes is fighting at peak levels he'll just asphyxiate Mags with an air vacuum and Apok can get BFR'd pretty quick. Supes, more often than not.

BFR Apocalypse?

Get real.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
BFR Apocalypse?

Get real.

I didn't say it was permanent, but yeah slam Apocalypse some miles away collapse Mags lungs, then carry on the fight one on one with Apoc. Supes in full flow fights like this in the comics.

Originally posted by Allankles
I didn't say it was permanent, but yeah slam Apocalypse some miles away collapse Mags lungs, then carry on the fight one on one with Apoc. Supes in full flow fights like this in the comics.

There's just that pesky teleportation.

It won't be a love tap, there's an opening on account of recovery. and how long do you think it takes to collapse Mags lungs? No more than a few seconds.

Only in Kal-El dreams.
For all we know he will be too busy returning to the field after being bfred.

Originally posted by illadelph12
I wonder if Apocalypse could do the body swap trick on Supes? That body definitely wouldn't burn out. i know for a fact that wouldn't work.

cyclops sort of took control of the "cyclopalypse" body after the twelve, so you know damn sure superman's will would do the same.

sadly you know it's true deep inside also

Originally posted by Allankles
The Dazzler scan has a degree ambiguity. I said "etc" because there are many forms of radiation that give of light both visibly and non visibly.

So how much visible and non visible light is going through his shields is unknown. That's why I said the author himself is hardly specific in his description of what Mags can do with light, like when he mentions photons (it's basic knowledge that the energy of EM radiation is in the form of photons).

Supes HV may be capable of giving off certain radiations through invisible light, and as Survivor said, there are limits to what Mags is doing with the EM spectrum.
Again what could DAZZLER have been doing? She doesn't manipulate various forms of radiation, she manipulates LIGHT and light ONLY. Your speculating that she might have been firing some other type of radiation is no different than me suddenly deciding that for some reason a particular optic blast of Cyclops is composed of cosmic energy rather than his normal optic blast. So what effects could she have been going for with light that wouldn't also suggest that Mag's could counter light based heat vision?

the fact that magneto said "photons" kind of deads that argument

Originally posted by psycho gundam
the fact that magneto said "photons" kind of deads that argument
Just because Molecule Man says that he can manipulate Cap's shield because it's made of molecules without mentioning that it's made of a vibranium alloy doesn't introduce the possibility that Cap's shield is made of something else for that issue. Yes other types of radiation are also made up of photons, but Dazzler is only able to manipulate one of them(and that's light)...

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i know for a fact that wouldn't work.

cyclops sort of took control of the "cyclopalypse" body after the twelve, so you know damn sure superman's will would do the same.

sadly you know it's true deep inside also

Not necessarily. There were extenuating circumstances revolving around that. The process Apocalypse used to merge The Twelves energies into Nate and then take over that body was sabotaged and the merger was incomplete and flawed.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Again what could DAZZLER have been doing? She doesn't manipulate various forms of radiation, she manipulates LIGHT and light ONLY. /B]

Visible light has many EM radiation sources (specific wavelength range and all that), and there are different types of EM radiation that give off visible light (leaving alone non-visible light). My "etc" was encompassing all the different light generating radiations and more specifically what effect Dazzlers' light was meant to have.

Originally posted by Allankles
Visible light has many EM radiation sources (specific wavelength range and all that), and there are different types of EM radiation that give off visible light (leaving alone non-visible light). My "etc" was encompassing all the different light generating radiations and more specifically what effect Dazzlers' light was meant to have.
You're avoiding the big question...

Originally posted by darthgoober
Again what could DAZZLER have been doing? She doesn't manipulate various forms of radiation, she manipulates LIGHT and light ONLY. Your speculating that she might have been firing some other type of radiation is no different than me suddenly deciding that for some reason a particular optic blast of Cyclops is composed of cosmic energy rather than his normal optic blast. So what effects could she have been going for with light that wouldn't also suggest that Mag's could counter light based heat vision?

Originally posted by Allankles
Visible light has many EM radiation sources (specific wavelength range and all that), and there are different types of EM radiation that give off visible light (leaving alone non-visible light). My "etc" was encompassing all the different light generating radiations and more specifically what effect Dazzlers' light was meant to have. photons focus the radiation along a tight path so it can react to farther objects without spreading out too thin. lasers lose less potency over a long distance than raw wave forms do.

"and there are different types of EM radiation that give off visible light"

wrong, only the visible light spectrum is well....visible. on one side of it you have infrared = invisible, on the other side you have ultraviolet = invisible. the farther you go in either direction, the harder it is to see even with special equipment.

Originally posted by Allankles
It won't be a love tap, there's an opening on account of recovery. and how long do you think it takes to collapse Mags lungs? No more than a few seconds.

If it takes an awfully short time, then there's no point in Superman's attempt at removing Apocalypse.

Originally posted by Allankles
It is esoteric, sealing up a breach in the fabric of space is esoteric,
I'll say it again: if you're referring to the S'ivaa incident that was standard run of the mill heat vision. Nothing more.

Originally posted by Allankles
If Supes is fighting at peak levels he'll just asphyxiate Mags with an air vacuum
Did you even realize that Magneto starts with his shields up and has gone into outer space with it? The air inside of that forcefield is all he needs.

Apoc would be the one to BFR Superman if anything.

How vulnerable would Supes be to a mind blast from Apoc.

Can't see Supes taking a majority here.

I do wonder how many blows Mag's shield could take at the NP, though.

Last time Superman had to deal with someone who could draw upon the entire Earth's magnetic field, he was one shot KO'd. And the time before that, when faced with just the south pole's magnetic power, he was also one-shot KO'd by a billion tons of a steel being slammed into him.

Magneto might be able to pull a majority under these conditions. With Apoc backing him up Supes goes down almost every time.

Originally posted by Allankles
Here's the scan.

http://g.imagehost.org/t/0249/supermanvol2047p16ku8.jpg that was will power not durability, crimebuster supes had no powers.

Originally posted by psycho gundam


"and there are different types of EM radiation that give off visible light"

wrong, only the visible light spectrum is well....visible. on one side of it you have infrared = invisible, on the other side you have ultraviolet = invisible. the farther you go in either direction, the harder it is to see even with special equipment.

There's a misunderstanding here, I was talking about the different types of light sources, the different types of processes that produce light.

And yes I already know about visible a non visible light, I mentioned this as one of the elements that add ambiguity to what Mag's shields are doing with light, the other being the intended effect of Dazzler's attack.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
that was will power not durability, crimebuster supes had no powers.

Shazam lighitning, the 7 elder gods, demonic magic etc, the magic bypasses his bio aura and he copes with whatever damage he sustains.

Superman's body is highly dense at the subatomic level, even his blood vessels are described as being as hard as concrete, so his durability goes beyond the bio aura, otherwise he'd be getting crispy fried by the first high level magical attack suffered.

On a side note: I just had a deja vu moment writing this post.

that was the only usable example, why you put up the crimebuster one first i do not know