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1. Thor's Godblast
2. Darkseid's Omega Effect
3. Phoenix's Supernova
4. Franklin Galactus' Eye Blast (took out 2 Celestials)
5. A combinded blast from the (universal aspects of) Eternity and Infinity
6. A blast from the Ultimate Nullifier
7. A fully powered blast by Mxyzptlk
8. Michael Demiurgos' death (power of creation released)
9. Wanda's Chaos Wave
10. The ultimate power of the Infinity Gems

those in the right order?
but anyway 3 or 4

Stops at 6

The Fury is immune to temporal/spatial nullification energies.

He was immune to the Celestial Nullifier, but it could only nullify one universe at a time, the UN killed Abraxas who was collapsing universes just by getting near them, and destroyed and recreated the entire multiverse.

Originally posted by Endless Mike

He was immune to the Celestial Nullifier,
but it could only nullify one universe at a time
That makes no difference friend.

The UN and CN have the same result regardless of the scale,
that is, nullification of Time & Space and everything in it,
whether you're erasing a mouse or a multiverse.

Also, the CN's range actually surpasses that of the CN,
it can erase any reality in the Omniverse,
one at a time, is all we've seen,
but all the crystals are there if need be.
Originally posted by Endless Mike

the UN killed Abraxas who was collapsing universes just by getting near them, and destroyed and recreated the entire multiverse.
I know fully well the UN's capabilities, as I know the CN's.

In terms of nullifying it's target: (including concepts ... like Abraxas)

CN = UN. (scale is inconsequential)

Therefore, if Fury can withstand the CN, it can withstand the UN.

Sorry, but I'm not seeing any proof that the CN is as powerful as the UN

Originally posted by Endless Mike

Sorry, but I'm not seeing any proof that the CN is as powerful as the UN
Cool,
well then let me know when you find proof
of the UN doing more than erasing its target.

Then we'll proceed with a debate good friend.

It erased more, that's the point. For example if a hammer can crush a rock does that mean it's as powerful as an earthquake that crushed a mountain?

Originally posted by Endless Mike

It erased more, that's the point.
More territory, but the targets, were erased evenly, both were nullified.

That's my point,
it's the energies themselves that count.

And the Fury withstood
the same energies that erase Time and Space and everything in-between.
Originally posted by Endless Mike

For example if a hammer can crush a rock
does that mean it's as powerful as an earthquake that crushed a mountain?
This real world specific ie. doesn't relate in the slightest.

It's a perfectly valid analogy.

You're saying that doing something to a smaller target = doing the same thing to a larger target.

Do you have any proof for this?

Originally posted by Endless Mike

You're saying that doing something to a smaller target = doing the same thing to a larger target.

Do you have any proof for this?
I'm only concerned with Marvel facts, concerning Marvel comics.

Both the CN and UN nullify Time and Space and everything in-between.

Again,
the energies of the UN and CN do exactly the same thing,
they both erase Time & Space.

Now whether you continue to spread said energies beyond a specific target is on you,
but in the end,
whether you nullify a single Universe, or the Multiverse entire,
what is the end result of both Universe and Multiverse?

Nullification.

The only difference is the amount of territory.

But really, what difference would that make when your target is a single being?

None.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The Fury is immune to temporal/spatial nullification energies.
Really? Where was this stated?

Originally posted by Air Legend

Really? Where was this stated?
It was stated per se, it was proven!

The Celestial Nullifier erases the 238 Universe from existence,
the Fury was there, just taking off from Earth:
...............................................................................................


http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/2561/e6qo5.th.jpg

"a CRYSTAL KEY is turned, a Chain Reaction Commenced,

A Stricken UNIVERSE is placed FOREVER beyond Suffering"

...............................................................................................


http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/7337/k2hr3.th.jpg

"A WHOLE Universe! ...

He just wiped out a whole Universe at the flick of a switch"

...............................................................................................


Fury floating around it's nullified Universe, completely intact. (UNHARMED)

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/7179/jue6.th.jpg

"It floats through Space that is Not Space"

...............................................................................................

...............................................................................................


It's not Space, because Space & Time was Nullified there.
So it became Un-Space. (the opposite of Space)

Which is where Fury took Jaspers,
to the 238 Area of the Multiverse that became Un-Space.
In fact, that's how the Fury knew about that location,
because it was once there,
floating in Un-Space.

...............................................................................................


Official Marvel Handbook Fury bio 2006:

http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/3931/f1ts5.th.jpg

"Fury modified itself to pursue (the preparation)
unbothered by the raging Reality Warp Jaspers' powers had precipitated,
it survived the destruction of its Entire Reality"

(It didn't escape the destruction ... it Survived it)

...............................................................................................


This Marvel Official Handbook is even more blatant:


Alternate Universes - Crooked World (238 Reality)

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/233/furywithstoodod1.th.jpg

"The Fury withstood both the Jaspers Warp and the Destruction of its Reality,
subsequently making its way to Earth 616"

...............................................................................................


We know what "Withstood" means right?

(remain undamaged or unaffected by)


Also,
the Fury "Subsequently made its way to 616."

We know what "Subsequent" means right?

(coming after something in time; following)


So the Fury made its way to 616 AFTER it Withstood the nullification of 238.

=======================================


The Fury resists an Omniversal attack by Scatterbrain (Fascination)

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/428/f9mt8.th.jpg


Fury owns Scatterbrain, and Captain Britain,
who joined the fight again, and got owned again:

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/2418/f10iv8.th.jpg



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Scatterbrain (Fascination) - Omniversal scale time-based manipulator!

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/7394/scxt9.th.jpg

"And with her touch,
the guard finds his Consciousness
instantly expanded across the Infinite breadth of the Omniverse"

Cool, but by "immune to temporal/spatial nullification energies" you didn't mean he was also immune to Jasper's warp, right?

Originally posted by Air Legend

Cool, but by "immune to temporal/spatial nullification energies"
you didn't mean he was also immune to Jasper's warp, right?
Nah. The Fury is immune to nullification energies
because it was in ground zero during the activation of nullification energies
which lead to the nullification of the 238 Universe.

The Fury withstood what even that aspect of Eternity/Infinity could not.

Jaspers' warp is another thing.

It seems the Fury was completely immune to 238 Jaspers' warp,
but was only highly resistant to 616 Jaspers' warp.

Cause 616 Jaspers did hurt the Fury,
with simultaneous warps and physical attacks when they battled across Universes.

Spiderman's punch=Hulk's punch?

They both break bones after all.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Nah. The Fury is immune to nullification energies
because it was in ground zero during the activation of nullification energies
which lead to the nullification of the 238 Universe.

The Fury withstood what even that aspect of Eternity/Infinity could not.

Jaspers' warp is another thing.

It seems the Fury was completely immune to 238 Jaspers' warp,
but was only highly resistant to 616 Jaspers' warp.

Cause 616 Jaspers did hurt the Fury,
with simultaneous warps and physical attacks when they battled across Universes.


But just because the Fury resisted the destruction of his universe doesn't mean it's immune to the powers of the UN. From what was provided, the universe was the target, not the Fury. I find this situation similar to Michael's explosion. When Michael dies, the Demiurgos power is released which goes on to overwhelm all of creation. However, since the power is not solely intended or directed at Lucifer, it has no affect on him. But when Michael specifically target's Lucifer, his power invokes damage.

A Marvel example would be Beyonder and MM. When Beyonder directly attacked MM, he beat him. However, when his power was released from the machine, illustrations showed the power wiping out the entire Marvel Universe. However, MM (this time not the direct target) was able to redirect that power and remain unharmed this time around.

In short, just because Fury withstood the universal nullification doesn't necessarily mean the Fury can withstand a direct, specific attack from the Ultimate Nullifier.

oops.

Originally posted by King Kandy

Spiderman's punch=Hulk's punch?

They both break bones after all.
But they don't both break mountains.


Originally posted by Air Legend

But just because the Fury resisted the destruction of his universe doesn't mean it's immune to the powers of the UN. From what was provided, the universe was the target, not the Fury. I find this situation similar to Michael's explosion. When Michael dies, the Demiurgos power is released which goes on to overwhelm all of creation. However, since the power is not solely intended or directed at Lucifer, it has no affect on him. But when Michael specifically target's Lucifer, his power invokes damage.

A Marvel example would be Beyonder and MM. When Beyonder directly attacked MM, he beat him. However, when his power was released from the machine, illustrations showed the power wiping out the entire Marvel Universe. However, MM (this time not the direct target) was able to redirect that power and remain unharmed this time around.
This is inconsequential to the events concerning the Fury.
Originally posted by Air Legend

In short, just because Fury withstood the universal nullification doesn't necessarily mean the Fury can withstand a direct, specific attack from the Ultimate Nullifier.
Although everything else (including Jaspers 238, including an aspect of Eternity)
and the rest of the 238 Universal Concepts,
including all other matter/energy and anything else I left out,
got erased from existence.

Yet, just cause it wasn't specifically targeted at Fury,
you believe it made a difference?

So Fury got lucky?

The CN overlooked the Fury?

Of course not,
as the on panel evidence and the bio confirms,
the Fury withstood the CN, simple and plain.

On top of that,
the CN doesn't target anything specifically, it simply doesn't work like the UN.

The CN contains the actual life-force of the Universes of Marvel in tiny crystals,
the CN crushes the crystals,
and said corresponding Universe (and everything in it) is nullified.


In Marvel's history, of all the potential targets,
only the Fury, 616 MJJ, and the IG,
have been known to be unaffected by nullification energies.

Originally posted by Mr Master
But they don't both break mountains.



This is inconsequential to the events concerning the Fury.

Although everything else (including Jaspers 238, including an aspect of Eternity)
and the rest of the 238 Universal Concepts,
including all other matter/energy and anything else I left out,
got erased from existence.

Yet, just cause it wasn't specifically targeted at Fury,
you believe it made a difference?

So Fury got lucky?

The CN overlooked the Fury?

Of course not,
as the on panel evidence and the bio confirms,
the Fury withstood the CN, simple and plain.

On top of that,
the CN doesn't target anything specifically, it simply doesn't work like the UN.

The CN contains the actual life-force of the Universes of Marvel in tiny crystals,
the CN crushes the crystals,
and said corresponding Universe (and everything in it) is nullified.


In Marvel's history, of all the potential targets,
only the Fury, 616 MJJ, and the IG,
have been known to be unaffected by nullification energies. I have a question for you. Do you think The Fury could take Michael in a fight?

Originally posted by iceman24567

I have a question for you. Do you think The Fury could take Michael in a fight?
Cross-company battles, Mr M has no comment on most, this is one of em.

But I can clear up facts concerning the Marvel aspect of the thread.

That's all I'm debating here.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Cross-company battles, Mr M has no comment on most, this is one of em.

But I can clear up facts concerning the Marvel aspect of the thread.

That's all I'm debating here. Ok who do you think has the more impressive battle feats?

Originally posted by Mr Master
This is inconsequential to the events concerning the Fury.
No, same concept. Direct, specific attacks cause more damage.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Although everything else (including Jaspers 238, including an aspect of Eternity) and the rest of the 238 Universal Concepts, including all other matter/energy and anything else I left out, got erased from existence.

And I guess the LT died as well since it exists everywhere simultaneously?
Originally posted by Mr Master
Yet, just cause it wasn't specifically targeted at Fury, you believe it made a difference?
Yes.
Originally posted by Mr Master
So Fury got lucky?
Not what I was trying to convey. You would know this if you bothered acknowledging my examples rather than simply dismissing them as inconsequential.
Originally posted by Mr Master
The CN overlooked the Fury?
Same as above
Originally posted by Mr Master
Of course not, as the on panel evidence and the bio confirms,
the Fury withstood the CN, simple and plain.
Never said the Fury didn't withstand the CN.
Originally posted by Mr Master
On top of that, the CN doesn't target anything specifically, it simply doesn't work like the UN.
That's one more reason we shouldn't quickly dismiss the UN as a threat to the Fury.
Originally posted by Mr Master
The CN contains the actual life-force of the Universes of Marvel in tiny crystals, the CN crushes the crystals, and said corresponding Universe (and everything in it) is nullified.
Including the Living Tribunal?
Originally posted by Mr Master
In Marvel's history, of all the potential targets, only the Fury, 616 MJJ, and the IG, have been known to be unaffected by nullification energies.
OK, but like I said before, a direct, specific UN attack could release enough power to destroy the Fury (faster than the Fury can adapt to the attack, that is).

Originally posted by iceman24567

Ok who do you think has the more impressive battle feats?
I'm not sure, don't know much about the DC side.

But the Fury stalemated and overcame a Jaspers,
who was more powerful than Omniversal matrix/Merlin,
who would've became God of the Omniverse had it not been for the Fury.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I'm not sure, don't know much about the DC side.

But the Fury stalemated and overcame a Jaspers,
who was more powerful than Omniversal matrix/Merlin,
who would've became God of the Omniverse had it not been for the Fury. The question is does Michael have a weakness the Fury can exploit? Not to sure of the answer maybe Air Legend can answer that question.

Originally posted by iceman24567
The question is does Michael have a weakness the Fury can exploit? Not to sure of the answer maybe Air Legend can answer that question.
His wings. At least in the Lucifer series. He looked much more impressive in his DCU battle with the Spectre IMO.

Originally posted by Air Legend
His wings. At least in the Lucifer series. He looked much more impressive in his DCU battle with the Spectre IMO. I loved that the Spectre wasn't even a match for him it was almost like Spectre vs The Great Evil Beasts fight.

Originally posted by Air Legend

No, same concept. Direct, specific attacks cause more damage.
Again, doesn't concern the CN.

CN erases everything in a Universe evenly,
including it's Universal concepts.

Only durability that can withstand it, survives.

To date,
ONLY the IG, Jaspers 616 and the Fury can withstand Universal nullification energies.
Originally posted by Air Legend

And I guess the LT died as well since it exists everywhere simultaneously?
Heh, let's stay serious now.
Originally posted by Air Legend

Yes.
So this sounds like you believe the Fury got lucky,
or the Fury was overlooked by the CN,
although the CN has no preferences,
if you're in the Universe, you will be erased,
lest your durability can handle it.

To date,
ONLY the IG, Jaspers 616 and the Fury can withstand Universal nullification energies.
Originally posted by Air Legend

Not what I was trying to convey. You would know this if you bothered acknowledging my examples rather than simply dismissing them as inconsequential.
I did acknowledge them,
I read them, considered them and came to a conclusion.

Imo, concerning Fury, they were inconsequential.


But if you wish:

1. Michael's power doesn't affect Lucy if he's not the target,
Michael's power affects Lucy if he's the target.

The CN erases from existence the Universe, (Time/Space/Matter)
and anything/everything contained within said Universe it nullifies.

No if, ands or buts.

So, imo, this Michael ie. is inconsequential to Fury and the CN case.

....................................................................................


2

MM was hurt in his initial battle with Beyonder due to direct conflict,
MM was not hurt at the end after the flash,
because he re-directed Beyonder's power.

I later learned that Beyonder actually faked his death,
and never intended to erase the Multiverse at the end,
in fact,
I always thought Beyonder had turned himself into a helpless baby,
but in fact, Beyonder was again pulling the strings.

The white flash was allowed by the Beyonder to be re-directed by Owen,
Beyonder wanted this, cause he was tired of the Multiverse and wanted to return home,
this method he chose was obviously for the dramatic affect on Shooter's part.

So once again, at-least in this particular ie. of yours,
I don't see any relation to the Fury/CN case.
Originally posted by Air Legend

Never said the Fury didn't withstand the CN.

That's one more reason we shouldn't quickly dismiss the UN as a threat to the Fury.
Not imo, they just nullify their tagets differently.

The UN has to literally blast a target or a Universe or a Multiverse.

The CN can erase a Universe from across the Omniverse,
by simply placing a Crystal in it:

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1056/r8fu4.th.jpg

"This Crystal embodies the LifeForce of your Home Dimension,
by breaking it, that Entire Portion of the Omniverse CEASES TO EXIST"
Originally posted by Air Legend

Including the Living Tribunal?
Come on, Al, only serious posts will be acknowledged.

Same silliness can be said about the Universes the UN has nullified.
Originally posted by Air Legend

OK, but like I said before, a direct, specific UN attack could release enough power to destroy the Fury (faster than the Fury can adapt to the attack, that is).
Unfortunately on panel and confirmed in Marvel Handbooks,
the Fury can withstand and survive temporal/spacial nullification energies.

Same exact thing both the CN and UN do,
that is, nullify Time/Space/Matter, to the same degree,
that is, to non-existence.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Again, doesn't concern the CN. CN erases everything in a Universe evenly, including it's Universal concepts.
Only durability that can withstand it, survives. To date, ONLY the IG, Jaspers 616 and the Fury can withstand Universal nullification energies.
Which just means that the Fury's durability is greater than that even distribution of power.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Heh, let's stay serious now.
You're the one that said everything else got erased.

So the CN erased mere aspects of the greater concepts like Eternity, Death, etc...big deal. It's reality 238, not 616.
Originally posted by Mr Master
So this sounds like you believe the Fury got lucky, or the Fury was overlooked by the CN, although the CN has no preferences, if you're in the Universe, you will be erased, lest your durability can handle it.
No, it just shows that the CN causes evenly distributed damage that Fury's durability is greater than.
Originally posted by Mr Master
To date, ONLY the IG, Jaspers 616 and the Fury can withstand Universal nullification energies.
Just how many times has a universal nullification been applied anyways?
Originally posted by Mr Master
I did acknowledge them, I read them, considered them and came to a conclusion.Imo, concerning Fury, they were inconsequential.


But if you wish:

1. Michael's power doesn't affect Lucy if he's not the target,
Michael's power affects Lucy if he's the target.

The CN erases from existence the Universe, (Time/Space/Matter)
and anything/everything contained within said Universe it nullifies.

No if, ands or buts.
Untrue. The Fury.

So, imo, this Michael ie. is inconsequential to Fury and the CN case.

It's still applies because we have entities (Lucifer and Fury) that can survive the power of universal/creation destruction that supposedly destroys anything/everything in said creation(Demiurgos power/CN).
....................................................................................

Originally posted by Mr Master
2

MM was hurt in his initial battle with Beyonder due to direct conflict,
MM was not hurt at the end after the flash,
because he re-directed Beyonder's power.

I later learned that Beyonder actually faked his death,
and never intended to erase the Multiverse at the end,
in fact, I always thought Beyonder had turned himself into a helpless baby, but in fact, Beyonder was again pulling the strings.

The white flash was allowed by the Beyonder to be re-directed by Owen,
Beyonder wanted this, cause he was tired of the Multiverse and wanted to return home, this method he chose was obviously for the dramatic affect on Shooter's part.

So once again, at-least in this particular ie. of yours,
I don't see any relation to the Fury/CN case.

I was talking about before the retcon. In other words, I was comparing the Fury scenario to the the end of Secret Wars II. The analogy applies when looking at it through a pre-retcon perspective.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Not imo, they just nullify their tagets differently.
The UN has to literally blast a target or a Universe or a Multiverse.
The CN can erase a Universe from across the Omniverse,
by simply placing a Crystal in it:
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1056/r8fu4.th.jpg
"This Crystal embodies the LifeForce of your Home Dimension,
by breaking it, that Entire Portion of the Omniverse CEASES TO EXIST"
This brings me back to my previous points. The CN, which is supposed to nullify everything/anything out of existence, failed to take out the Fury. The UN hasn't failed at erasing something out of existence (I know it got redirected by the IG). So the UN, displaying more power and thoroughness than the CN, can potentially destroy the Fury.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Come on, Al, only serious posts will be acknowledged.
Same silliness can be said about the Universes the UN has nullified.
Again, you said anything/everything. 131
Originally posted by Mr Master
Unfortunately on panel and confirmed in Marvel Handbooks, the Fury can withstand and survive temporal/spacial nullification energies.

Same exact thing both the CN and UN do, that is, nullify Time/Space/Matter, to the same degree, that is, to non-existence.
They both do the same thing, but not to the same degree. CN failed at nullifying the Fury, while the UN hasn't failed. I think it's called the ULTIMATE Nullifier for a reason.

Show me the UN unsuccessfully erasing something from existence and I'll concede.

Stops at 3

Wasn't fury in pretty bad shape when he arrived to the 616 reality from the 238? Was the damage surely placed on the crossing of the dimensionel Barriers ore a part of it placed on the Nullifier???

Originally posted by Air Legend

So the CN erased mere aspects of the greater concepts like Eternity, Death, etc...big deal. It's reality 238, not 616.
Actually the life-force of the entire Omniverse is contained within said crystals,
that goes for 616 too.
Originally posted by Air Legend

It's still applies because we have entities (Lucifer and Fury) that can survive the power of universal/creation destruction that supposedly destroys anything/everything in said creation(Demiurgos power/CN).
You said Lucy was not hurt when he was not the target,
and he was hurt was he was the target.

If you're in the Universe,
the CN erases existence regardless of whether your the target or not.
Originally posted by Air Legend

I was talking about before the retcon. In other words, I was comparing the Fury scenario to the the end of Secret Wars II. The analogy applies when looking at it through a pre-retcon perspective.
Molecule Man never actually truly blocked Beyonder's power,
that was my mistake,
Beyonder's power was re-directed before it could wipe out everything.

I realized later this did make more sense,
as Owen should not have been able to literally block Beyonder's full power.

Owen did shield himself the first time around in their first fight,
but that as you know, nearly killed Owen.

Originally posted by Air Legend

This brings me back to my previous points. The CN, which is supposed to nullify everything/anything out of existence, failed to take out the Fury. The UN hasn't failed at erasing something out of existence (I know it got redirected by the IG). So the UN, displaying more power and thoroughness than the CN, can potentially destroy the Fury.
That was an incomplete IG,
and the UN energies were completely dominated.
Originally posted by Air Legend

They both do the same thing, but not to the same degree. CN failed at nullifying the Fury, while the UN hasn't failed. I think it's called the ULTIMATE Nullifier for a reason.

Show me the UN unsuccessfully erasing something from existence

and I'll concede.
You'll concede?


The UN fails to completely erase, what did you call it?

oh yea,

"a mere aspect of Eternity"

=====================================

The Dr Strange, Silver Surfer and Phoenix of this Universe (Reality- 82432)
were spared Nullification.

When Strange returns to this Universe that was erased,

he finds the Ultimate Nullifier as the Culprit:

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/442804_UN1.jpg

...................................................................................


They were expelled from that Universe before it's demise.

It was the Universe Korvac eased with the UN.

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/442805_UN2.jpg

...................................................................................


But actually,

this diverged reality's Universal spirit (aspect of Eternity) still lives:

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/5282/as1za9.th.jpg

=====================================


Awaiting concession.

Originally posted by Utrigita

Wasn't fury in pretty bad shape when he arrived to the 616 reality from the 238?
Was the damage surely placed on the crossing of the dimensionel Barriers
ore a part of it placed on the Nullifier???
Nullification energies had no affect on the Fury!

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=486821&pagenumber=1


Fury got all messed from its trip through UniverseS:
(it couldn't teleport at this time, so it had to travel the old fashion way,
it must've been battered through out the entire trip with lord knows what)

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/1738/j1xo0.th.jpg

"It Arrived an Hour ago"



http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/5505/j2sa4.th.jpg

"It comes from Another Universe ...
it's Journey was Not pleasant,
it no longer has Limbs"

Wanda's Chaos Wave

Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually the life-force of the entire Omniverse is contained within said crystals, that goes for 616 too.

You said Lucy was not hurt when he was not the target,
and he was hurt was he was the target.
If you're in the Universe, the CN erases existence regardless of whether your the target or not.

Again, the analogy still applies. The CN is supposed to erase everything from existence regardless of the target. It failed to erase the Fury. Michael's power is supposed to wipe everything from existence. It didn't erase Lucifer.


Exactly. When Beyonder attacked MM directly, MM payed the price. But when Beyonder's omni-directional power was released without him willing it, MM was able to redirect the power. Had it been the Beyonder himself invoking his power in a concentrated manner with MM being the specific target (I'm not talking about reluctantly and blindly shooting a blast at MM like he did in the story), MM wouldn't have been able to do a thing about it.

I believe the spirit of anything is beyond nullification, but I'll concede if this isn't a What If, though I highly doubt it, since you mentioned Korvac

Originally posted by Air Legend

Again, the analogy still applies. The CN is supposed to erase everything from existence regardless of the target. It failed to erase the Fury. Michael's power is supposed to wipe everything from existence. It didn't erase Lucifer.
Well,
I don't know about the Michael situation since it has nothing to do with Marvel.

But in Marvel comics,
the CN transforms Space into Un-Space (absolute nothingness/ the Void)
nothing remains.

The UN does the same thing, but evidently,
the spirit of concepts (at-least Eternity's survive, though technically he's dead.

Fury's durability withstood (unharmed) that which utterly erases Time/Space/Matter,
completely,
in fact, it becomes the opposite of Time/Space/Matter ... it becomes absolute nothingness,
not even conceptual spirits survive,
then again how can it, when it the CN strikes at it's very heart.

Don't know what else to say.
Originally posted by Air Legend

Exactly. When Beyonder attacked MM directly, MM payed the price. But when Beyonder's omni-directional power was released without him willing it, MM was able to redirect the power. Had it been the Beyonder himself invoking his power in a concentrated manner with MM being the specific target (I'm not talking about reluctantly and blindly shooting a blast at MM like he did in the story), MM wouldn't have been able to do a thing about it.
Owen did not block all of Beyonder's power at the very end,
he literally re-directed it into the Beyond Realm.

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/442957_Owen1.jpg

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/442958_owen2.jpg



Owen was so weak after battling the Beyonder, (the first time)
that he barely had enough power to help Silver Surfer repair the Earth:

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/442959_Owen3.jpg

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/442960_Owen4.jpg

.......................................................................................

Now if Owen Reece,
(most powerful being in the Multiverse, control over all time/space/matter)
couldn't even repair a single Planet on his own,
are we really going to think he blocked Beyonder's full exaggerated power?

I know I won't.

Obviously, the power he re-directed was not meant to harm him, or anyone else.
Originally posted by Air Legend

I believe the spirit of anything is beyond nullification, but I'll concede if this isn't a What If, though I highly doubt it, since you mentioned Korvac
You asked for proof,
I delivered,
you return with another loophole.

I can't debate this way.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Nullification energies had no affect on the Fury!

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=486821&pagenumber=1


Fury got all messed from its trip through UniverseS:
(it couldn't teleport at this time, so it had to travel the old fashion way,
it must've been battered through out the entire trip with lord knows what)

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/1738/j1xo0.th.jpg

"It Arrived an Hour ago"



http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/5505/j2sa4.th.jpg

"It comes from Another Universe ...
it's Journey was Not pleasant,
it no longer has Limbs"

this is just theory master.

Is it possible that what damaged it was the lack of substance when the universe was destroyed and hence it didn't have the means of recovery and on top of that it cross dimensionel barriers that with all respect the SS can cross without showing any signs of damage, this leads me to believe that the Fury was weakened from the nullification and the lack of substance to replace it energies the dimensionel travel then further exhaust the already exhausted Fury again it's just a theory because I personally have a hard time seeing how the Fury survives entire unharmed a nullification attack and but when it cross a dimensionel Barrier it's almost killed.

Originally posted by Utrigita
this is just theory master.

Is it possible that what damaged it was the lack of substance when the universe was destroyed and hence it didn't have the means of recovery and on top of that it cross dimensionel barriers that with all respect the SS can cross without showing any signs of damage, this leads me to believe that the Fury was weakened from the nullification and the lack of substance to replace it energies the dimensionel travel then further exhaust the already exhausted Fury again it's just a theory because I personally have a hard time seeing how the Fury survives entire unharmed a nullification attack and but when it cross a dimensionel Barrier it's almost killed.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Well,
I don't know about the Michael situation since it has nothing to do with Marvel.

But in Marvel comics,
the CN transforms Space into Un-Space (absolute nothingness/ the Void)
nothing remains.

The UN does the same thing, but evidently,
the spirit of concepts (at-least Eternity's survive, though technically he's dead.

Fury's durability withstood (unharmed) that which utterly erases Time/Space/Matter,
completely,
in fact, it becomes the opposite of Time/Space/Matter ... it becomes absolute nothingness,
not even conceptual spirits survive,
then again how can it, when it the CN strikes at it's very heart.

Don't know what else to say.

Owen did not block all of Beyonder's power at the very end,
he literally re-directed it into the Beyond Realm.

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/442957_Owen1.jpg

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/442958_owen2.jpg



Owen was so weak after battling the Beyonder, (the first time)
that he barely had enough power to help Silver Surfer repair the Earth:

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/442959_Owen3.jpg

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/442960_Owen4.jpg

.......................................................................................

Now if Owen Reece,
(most powerful being in the Multiverse, control over all time/space/matter)
couldn't even repair a single Planet on his own,
are we really going to think he blocked Beyonder's full exaggerated power?

I know I won't.

Obviously, the power he re-directed was not meant to harm him, or anyone else.

You asked for proof,
I delivered,
you return with another loophole.

I can't debate this way.
You provided scans from a What If. I was going to write no What If's, but decided against it since I didn't believe you'd actually attempt to use What If material as evidence (seeing how you find them ridiculous as well), but you did. It's not that I'm looking for loopholes, I just want credible evidence, and What If's are anything but credible.

As for the Beyonder argument:

I was referring to two instances. 1. The battle MM and Beyonder had underground and 2. when the Beyonder's power exploded out of the machine.

The power released from the machine was Beyonder's raw energy. The Beyonder didn't willfully allow his power to spew out, Owen destroyed the link to the Beyonder (the baby) and his power (raw energy), thus causing the power to be released.

"Power unimaginable spews from the severed, flailing conduit----destroying everything it touches!"


So in a way you're right by it wasn't "meant" to harm anyone, because the Beyonder didn't decide/choose to release all his powers, rather Owen's interference caused his power to involuntarily spew out, and consequently, the power was destroying everything it touched.

But since this time the Beyonder wasn't willfully imposing his energy on MM like he did in their battle, MM was able to redirect the power.

Originally posted by Utrigita

this is just theory master.
dontgetit

That's a fact friend.

You must've missed the part that clearly states,
"it's journey was not pleasant"
Originally posted by Utrigita

Is it possible that what damaged it was the lack of substance when the universe was destroyed and hence it didn't have the means of recovery and on top of that it cross dimensionel barriers that with all respect the SS can cross without showing any signs of damage, this leads me to believe that the Fury was weakened from the nullification and the lack of substance to replace it energies the dimensionel travel then further exhaust the already exhausted Fury again it's just a theory because I personally have a hard time seeing how the Fury survives entire unharmed a nullification attack and but when it cross a dimensionel Barrier it's almost killed.
Now this is a theory, and unsupported at that.

The facts:

Please refer to page one,
where I already posted the scans of the Fury withstanding the CN on panel,
and further corroborated in TWO separate Handbooks as being so.

This is a fact.

Originally posted by Utrigita
this is just theory master.

Is it possible that what damaged it was the lack of substance when the universe was destroyed and hence it didn't have the means of recovery and on top of that it cross dimensionel barriers that with all respect the SS can cross without showing any signs of damage, this leads me to believe that the Fury was weakened from the nullification and the lack of substance to replace it energies the dimensionel travel then further exhaust the already exhausted Fury again it's just a theory because I personally have a hard time seeing how the Fury survives entire unharmed a nullification attack and but when it cross a dimensionel Barrier it's almost killed.

Originally posted by Air Legend

You provided scans from a What If. I was going to write no What If's, but decided against it since I didn't believe you'd actually attempt to use What If material as evidence (seeing how you find them ridiculous as well), but you did. It's not that I'm looking for loopholes, I just want credible evidence, and What If's are anything but credible.
I provided scans from an alternate diverged reality.

I also provided scans from another legitimate source, (on panel)
where the Fury withstood/survived unharmed the nullification of it's entire Universe,
it was confirmed in two Handbooks,
but that wasnt enough either.

Don't know what else to say.
Originally posted by Air Legend

As for the Beyonder argument:

I was referring to two instances. 1. The battle MM and Beyonder had underground and 2. when the Beyonder's power exploded out of the machine.

The power released from the machine was Beyonder's raw energy. The Beyonder didn't willfully allow his power to spew out, Owen destroyed the link to the Beyonder (the baby) and his power (raw energy), thus causing the power to be released.

"Power unimaginable spews from the severed, flailing conduit----destroying everything it touches!"
Right, and before it destroyed everything,
Owen "projected" the Beyonder's energy into the Beyond Realm:

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/443127_owen5.jpg

Originally posted by Air Legend

So in a way you're right by it wasn't "meant" to harm anyone, because the Beyonder didn't decide/choose to release all his powers, rather Owen's interference caused his power to involuntarily spew out, and consequently, the power was destroying everything it touched.

But since this time the Beyonder wasn't willfully imposing his energy on MM like he did in their battle, MM was able to redirect the power.
Ok, cool.

But this still doesn't relate to the CN and the Fury incident.

Because the CN was trying to erase Fury, like everything else in the 238 reality.

Originally posted by Mr Master
But actually,

this diverged reality's Universal spirit (aspect of Eternity) still lives:

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/5282/as1za9.th.jpg But we know the UN's destructive quality is entirely dependent on the one using it. Look at what Galactus, and especially Reed have done with it for pete's sake. In short, you shouldn't knock the UN just because Korvac was too weak to wipe out a universe with it, in that What If.

Originally posted by Galan007

But we know the UN's destructive quality is entirely dependent on the one using it. Look at what Galactus, and especially Reed have done with it for pete's sake. In short, you shouldn't knock the UN just because Korvac was too weak to wipe out a universe with it, in that What If.
In short, I didn't know I was knocking the UN.

In case you forgot,
it was I that brought the UN's power to light.

It was I (in this forum at-least)
who first presented the UN wiping out the prime Multiverse.

It has always been my mission, to defend the UN and it's capabilities.


"Knocking the UN?" ...

===============================

"Korvac was too weak?" ... what?

Korvac took everyone out on his own, and absorbed their powers too,
(including hierarchal members)
he only used the UN to wipe out that aspect of Eternity.

And actually, Korvac did wipe out the Universe with it.

It was only the spirit of that aspect of Eternity that survived.
(the universe itself though, was gone)

Originally posted by Mr Master
In short, I didn't know I was knocking the UN.

In case you forgot,
it was I that brought the UN's power to light.

It was I (in this forum at-least)
who first presented the UN wiping out the prime Multiverse.

It has always been my mission, to defend the UN and it's capabilities. So in short, nobody knew a thing about what the UN has the capability of doing, until you came along? Didn't know that.

Cool beans.

Darn it, just noticed the edit.

Now I must redefine my post. smilefist

Originally posted by Galan007

So in short,
nobody knew a thing about what the UN has the capability of doing,
until you came along?

Didn't know that.

Cool beans.
bashful
Originally posted by Mr Master

It was I (in this forum at-least)
who first presented the UN wiping out the prime Multiverse.

It has always been my mission, to defend the UN and it's capabilities.

Originally posted by Air Legend

You provided scans from a What If. I was going to write no What If's, but decided against it since I didn't believe you'd actually attempt to use What If material as evidence (seeing how you find them ridiculous as well), but you did. It's not that I'm looking for loopholes, I just want credible evidence, and What If's are anything but credible.
Fair enough, I flipped a few pages in the 616 Reality, and I found:

When the 616 UN was unleashed,
Galactus's World Ship was able to contain the energies,
yes, the 616 UN was un-able to nullify the ship or anything outside it,
though everyone within the ship was erased in the process:

(except for Galactus who escaped at the last moment)

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/443487_UN1.jpg

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/443488_UN2.jpg

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/443489_UN3.jpg

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/443490_UN4.jpg

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/443491_UN5.jpg

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/443505_UN6.jpg


Silver Surfer thought Galactus was dead,
but Galactus escaped at the very last moment.

Originally posted by Mr Master
dontgetit

That's a fact friend.

You must've missed the part that clearly states,
"it's journey was not pleasant"

Now this is a theory, and unsupported at that.

The facts:

Please refer to page one,
where I already posted the scans of the Fury withstanding the CN on panel,
and further corroborated in TWO separate Handbooks as being so.

This is a fact.

You didn't get it correct My own respond below was theory not what you posted

And again I find it hard to believe that crossing dimensionel Barriers > Nullification of a Universe. Surfer should have died many times then along with Galactus.

I isn't denying that he withstood the blast Master, what I'm saying is that he wasn't entirely uneffected by it, unless Crossing dimensionel Barriers > Universal Nullification... and again withstanding can have to meanings resisting like you say ore endure what I think Fury did badly weakened however.

Originally posted by Utrigita

You didn't get it correct
My own respond below was theory not what you posted
I just noticed.
Originally posted by Utrigita

And again I find it hard to believe that crossing dimensionel Barriers > Nullification of a Universe.
Surfer should have died many times then along with Galactus.
I've never seen Surfer on his board crossing entire UniverseS.

Not going across one Universe,
I'm talking about crossing from one Universe to the next,
and who knows how many at that.

Also, I doubt it was the simplicity (if we can call it that)
of crossing from one reality to the next and to the next and to the next,
obviously the Fury must've been bombarded with the stuff of space.

We don't know what the Fury encountered,
or had to endure in his journey to the 616 reality.

Whatever happened, happened off-panel, so none of us will ever know.
Originally posted by Utrigita

I isn't denying that he withstood the blast Master, what I'm saying is that he wasn't entirely uneffected by it, unless Crossing dimensionel Barriers > Universal Nullification... and again withstanding can have to meanings resisting like you say ore endure what I think Fury did badly weakened however.
Ut. what can I say.

If you wish to speculate based on unsupported logic, be my guest.

But on panel the Fury withstood and survived Universal nullification unharmed.

The artistic depiction is of a complete Fury, without a scratch:

...............................................................................................


Fury floating around it's nullified Universe, completely intact. (UNHARMED)

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/7179/jue6.th.jpg

"It floats through Space that is Not Space"

...............................................................................................

...............................................................................................


The Marvel Official Handbook confirms this fact:


Alternate Universes - Crooked World (238 Reality)

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/233/furywithstoodod1.th.jpg

"The Fury withstood both the Jaspers Warp and the Destruction of its Reality,
subsequently making its way to Earth 616"

...............................................................................................


We know what "Withstood" means right?

(remain undamaged or unaffected by)


Also,
the Fury "Subsequently made its way to 616."

We know what "Subsequent" means right?

(coming after something in time; following)


So the Fury made its way to 616 AFTER it Withstood the nullification of 238.


===========================================


The bio, like presented on panel ... states,
the Fury withstood both 238 Jaspers' warp and the nullification of the 238 Universe:

Already presented undeniable proof (concerning nullification) that can not be countered.


Now here's the other part of the bio:

Fury withstanding again (without a scratch) 238 Jaspers' warp:

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/6011/fury1nt7.th.jpg


So the Handbook is 100% accurate according to On Panel evidence.

In one comic we have the Silver Surfer traveling through thousands of universes looking for a specie, he didn't get a scratch. And now master it begins to sound even more in logical that the stuff of space (reference to asteroids and the like?) damaged fury more then a universal nullification.

Let me see Master, the SS was knockout by Odin without a mark to show from it, yet Odin was capable of giving him enough force to make him pas out, and again Master I am in 100% agreement with you that he toke the blast and survived it there is no doubt about it but what we disagree on is the effect (if any) the nullification had to Fury, the handbook itself it rather open minded it says withstand which can mean two things that cannot be compared.

Withstand can be both To resist or endure successfully. Again imo Fury endured the Nullification (which is a Feat granted) it didn't resist it, because the Fury has shown before that it needs time to adapt it isn't instantaneous.

Originally posted by Utrigita

In one comic we have the Silver Surfer traveling through thousands of universes looking for a specie, he didn't get a scratch.
I'd like to see that, what issue is this?
Originally posted by Utrigita

And now master it begins to sound even more in logical that the stuff of space (reference to asteroids and the like?) damaged fury more then a universal nullification.
"asteroids?" ... ... you funny Utrigita. But I know you playing.

How about Stars, Super Novas, Gamma explosions, Quasars, Pulsars,
Galactic collisions, Stellar Black Holes, or Super Massive Black Holes.

How about space traveling armada's,
Universal entities he might've encountered and battle,
and on and on.

If the Fury was constantly being attacked by accident or design,
without any substance to regenerate, logically this would lead to a damaged Fury.

I mean, since we have no idea what the Fury confronted in his journey,
our imagination can run wild with possibilities.
Originally posted by Utrigita

Let me see Master, the SS was knockout by Odin without a mark to show from it, yet Odin was capable of giving him enough force to make him pas out
This is inconsequential to Fury and the CN.
Originally posted by Utrigita

and again Master I am in 100% agreement with you that he toke the blast and survived it there is no doubt about it

Originally posted by Utrigita

but what we disagree on is the effect (if any) the nullification had to Fury, the handbook itself it rather open minded it says withstand which can mean two things that cannot be compared.

Withstand can be both To resist or endure successfully. Again imo Fury endured the Nullification (which is a Feat granted) it didn't resist it, because the Fury has shown before that it needs time to adapt it isn't instantaneous.
You're gonna have to take this debate up with Marvel Handbook writers
and Alan Moore/Alan Davis, the writer & artist of the arc.

On Panel the Fury is artistically depicted unharmed after the nullification,
the official Handbooks both state the Fury not only survived,
but also withstood nullification.

On Panel it's clearly stated that it was the Journey that was unpleasant,
which lead to Fury damage, (it no longer has limbs)


So ... that's as far as I can go with this particular debate.


=======================================


The meaning of "Withstood"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/withstood


"To stand up against :
oppose with firm determination; especially : to resist successfully

b: to be proof against : resist the effect of < withstand the impact of a landing"

Originally posted by Mr Master
Fair enough, I flipped a few pages in the 616 Reality, and I found:

When the 616 UN was unleashed,
Galactus's World Ship was able to contain the energies,
yes, the 616 UN was un-able to nullify the ship or anything outside it,
though everyone within the ship was erased in the process:

(except for Galactus who escaped at the last moment)

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/443487_UN1.jpg

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/443488_UN2.jpg

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/443489_UN3.jpg

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/443490_UN4.jpg

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/443491_UN5.jpg

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/443505_UN6.jpg


Silver Surfer thought Galactus was dead,
but Galactus escaped at the very last moment.
And now, with legitimate proof at hand, I'll concede that the Ultimate Nullifier would not be able to stop the Fury.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I'd like to see that, what issue is this?

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/galactustravelfirst.jpg

Originally posted by Mr Master
"asteroids?" ... ... you funny Utrigita. But I know you playing.

How about Stars, Super Novas, Gamma explosions, Quasars, Pulsars,
Galactic collisions, Stellar Black Holes, or Super Massive Black Holes.

How about space traveling armada's,
Universal entities he might've encountered and battle,
and on and on.

If the Fury was constantly being attacked by accident or design,
without any substance to regenerate, logically this would lead to a damaged Fury.

I mean, since we have no idea what the Fury confronted in his journey,
our imagination can run wild with possibilities.

All of those attacks should prove absolutely ineffective against a being that survived universal nullification without a scrath, wouldn't you agree?

Originally posted by Mr Master
This is inconsequential to Fury and the CN.

Not quiet, the Surfer obvious was hurt (hence he was knocked out) yet he didn't have a mark to show from it, the Fury incident could very well be the same that Fury survived the attack and still didn't have a mark to show.

Originally posted by Mr Master
You're gonna have to take this debate up with Marvel Handbook writers
and Alan Moore/Alan Davis, the writer & artist of the arc.

On Panel the Fury is artistically depicted unharmed after the nullification,
the official Handbooks both state the Fury not only survived,
but also withstood nullification.

On Panel it's clearly stated that it was the Journey that was unpleasant,
which lead to Fury damage, (it no longer has limbs)


So ... that's as far as I can go with this particular debate.


=======================================


The meaning of "Withstood"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/withstood


"To stand up against :
oppose with firm determination; especially : to resist successfully

b: to be proof against : resist the effect of < withstand the impact of a landing"

http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/withstand?view=uk

Oxford dictionary mentiones my point to, under the second paragraph and again that is the way we choose to look at the word and what diffinition we like to put into play, it all depends on how we look at the rest of the comic individually.

aint no mofo geting past two.

Originally posted by Air Legend

And now, with legitimate proof at hand,
I'll concede that the Ultimate Nullifier would not be able to stop the Fury.

Originally posted by carnage52

aint no mofo geting past two.
Fury will.

Originally posted by Mr Master

The Fury is immune to temporal/spatial nullification energies.

stoned

Ok i see why you think the Omega effect won't take him out its basically a mini ultimate nullifier.

Originally posted by Utrigita

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/galactustravelfirst.jpg

Ok,
I'll first bring to light the inconsistencies and contradictions involved in this one-shot.

===============================================


First ... the Adjudicator comes from withIN the 616 Universe:

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/451407_CT1.jpg

"In a far, far distant section of the Universe"

.................................................................................


Second ... the Adjudicator comes from another Universe:

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/451408_CT2.jpg

"The Adjudicator flashes past entire Universes"

.................................................................................


The Watcher mentioned the Decimators were a "thousand Universes away.

Just thought it was peculiar Reed says while searching for the Surfer:

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/451409_CT3.jpg

"He might be anywhere in a thousand Galaxies"

.................................................................................


Are they really beyond the 616 reality?

Maybe, maybe not, but, they only judge Galaxies,
beats me why they are supposedly concerned
with a single Galaxy a thousand Universes away:

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/451410_CT4.jpg

"The Cosmic Tribunal ... act as judges of the Galaxies

.................................................................................


Ok, so the Watcher does claim the Decimators are a thousand Universes away:

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/451411_ct05.jpg

.................................................................................


A thousand Universes away ... hmmm.
Or entire Universes away ...

Yet, when Galactus and co. go to find their world,
it's only Galaxies they're passing by:

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/451418_Ct5.jpg

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/451419_CT7.jpg

"Time and Space intermingle as the Galaxies speed by"

.................................................................................

.................................................................................


After Galactus and Co. help the Cosmic Tribunal from the Decimators,
their thought of peace reach only the countless Galaxies. (which 616 contains)

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/451420_ct8.jpg

"Mighty thoughts travel outward, across the countless Galaxies"

.................................................................................



continues in the next post ...

continues ...

================================

Ok, On Panel the contradictions are many,
but even in the actual story-srcipt,
the inconsistencies/contradictions continue:

================================

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/451476_Ct9.jpg

"In another sector of the Universe,
further than we have ever gone or discovered" (which is rubbish)

"Cosmic Tribunal purpose is to keep peace in the Universe ...
... they feel they're helping to protect the Universe"

.................................................................................


In the Universe!

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/451477_ct10.jpg

"Their thoughts are the most potent weapons in the Universe"

.................................................................................


In the Universe!

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/451478_Ct11.jpg

"It's up to Surfer, only he has the speed
to reach a certain place in the Universe in time"

.................................................................................


A thousand Universes away now!

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/451479_Ct12.jpg

"There is a war-like race, a thousand Universes away"

.................................................................................


But back to just a section of the Universe! ... again!

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/451480_Ct13.jpg

"SS to go to that race and direct & direct them to that quadrant of the Universe"


==================================


So both the Cosmic Tribunal and the Decimators are located Universes away,
but also withIN the prime Universe evidently.

doh

One more thing Utrigita:

Even if Surfer did cross entire UniverseS!

This story took place in 2007 ... the arc involving the Fury was way back in 1983,
perhaps traveling across Universes to reach another Universe was not as easy then,
Marvel has raised the bar as we know,
nowadays, destroying an entire Universe is almost rudimentary,
while taking out a Universe back in the day was a big deal.

Any how good friend,
show me the Surfer crossing entire UniverseS on his board
anytime from 1983 on down, and then you got something for us to ponder further.

Strange that he searches a thousands universes and then find the race needed in his own universe

I will go have a look for it.

Something more powerful then a attack by the CN? in 1983 there certainly wasn't a great deal of high cosmic arounds that could deliver that amount of damage.

Agreed that he withstood it, I just doesn't agree with your version of withstood I think this is more likely.

My bad not the comic, the handbooks mentioning of withstood

Originally posted by Utrigita

Strange that he searches a thousands universes
and then find the race needed in his own universe.
I'm just as confused.

It may be that the term "Universe" is being used to describe all of Marvel,
like in certain other arcs,
but that doesn't explain why Galactus only passed Galaxies to get to their world.
Originally posted by Utrigita

Something more powerful then a attack by the CN? in 1983 there certainly wasn't a great deal of high cosmic arounds that could deliver that amount of damage.
We simply don't and never will know what the Fury encountered.
Originally posted by Utrigita

Agreed that he withstood it,
I just doesn't agree with your version of withstood I think this is more likely.
That's cool, you're not disagreeing with me though,
you're disagreeing with the on panel evidence which was confirmed in the Handbooks.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I'm just as confused.

It may be that the term "Universe" is being used to describe all of Marvel,
like in certain other arcs,
but that doesn't explain why Galactus only passed Galaxies to get to their world.



Originally posted by Mr Master
We simply don't and never will know what the Fury encountered.

Agreed, but Master what could he had encountered that damaged him more then a universal destroying blast in 1983?

Originally posted by Mr Master
That's cool, you're not disagreeing with me though,
you're disagreeing with the on panel evidence which was confirmed in the Handbooks.

Yes I'm disagreeing with the Handbook on the term Withstood that's all

so all that is needed to beat the fury is to hurl him through a universe hopping bfr ?

From what I've read of the discussion, Utrigita certainly makes a lot more sense.

If I understand correctly, Mr Master says that Fury survived the nullification on the Universe unharmed but his travelling from a Universe to another hurt him ?

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
From what I've read of the discussion, Utrigita certainly makes a lot more sense.

If I understand correctly, Mr Master says that Fury survived the nullification on the Universe unharmed but his travelling from a Universe to another hurt him ?
yea does not make much sense to me either. but oh well
i just think fury survived it so he could be defeated later by the heros. not some souless machine killing another souless machine.
makes the heros more usefull i guess

Originally posted by Utrigita

Agreed, but Master what could he had encountered
that damaged him more then a universal destroying blast in 1983?
I have no idea, which is why I've said several times our imaginations can run wild,
since none of us know what the Fury encountered.
Originally posted by Utrigita

Yes I'm disagreeing with the Handbook on the term Withstood that's all
You're disagreeing with the On Panel evidence,
and the confirmation withIN the Handbook.

And really, who can debate against that?

Originally posted by xjustice69x

so all that is needed to beat the fury is to hurl him through a universe hopping bfr ?
You mean
like when Fury was bfring itself & Jaspers across UniverseS in their epic battle? dontgetit

You didn't know that did ya?

That tactic, will never, ever work,
after arriving on Earth 616,
the Fury developed teleportation capabilities of trans-cosmic proportions.
Originally posted by xjustice69x

yea does not make much sense to me either. but oh well
i just think fury survived it so he could be defeated later by the heros.
not some souless machine killing another souless machine.
makes the heros more usefull i guess
I think you should at-least read one issue of the arc,
before making such ludicrous statements.

Heroes killed Fury? ....

You think it was that simple huh? ... That's still funny.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
From what I've read of the discussion,
Utrigita certainly makes a lot more sense.
Surprise, surprise. glare

I'm not here to makes sense of what took place on panel
and was confirmed in the official Marvel Handbooks,
I'm only stating the facts.

You think it's senseless?

Take up with Alan Moore, Alan Davis and the Marvel handbook writers.
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

If I understand correctly,
Mr Master says that Fury survived the nullification on the Universe unharmed but his travelling from a Universe to another hurt him ?
There you go, that's the problem,
you don't understand it correctly.

Btw. Mr M didn't say that, (meaning it's not my opinion)
Mr M is only conveying what took place On Panel,
which was then confirmed in the Handbooks.


The FACTS! ... according to the On Panel undeniable proof!

.................................................................................


After nullification:

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/7179/jue6.th.jpg

Hey look at that,
all my limbs are there, I'm whole,
in fact,
I'm complete, I'm the same looking Fury that killed every hero on Earth 238.

.................................................................................


After the Journey:

http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/5505/j2sa4.th.jpg

Hey well what da ya know,
my limbs are now missing, I'm not whole,
in fact,
I'm in-complete, I'm horribly damaged, my back is broken,
and I look nothing like the Fury that killed all the heroes of Earth 238.

=====================================


For the last time,
you, nor I, nor anyone else,
has any idea what the Fury encountered in its journey,
or why the Fury was damaged during its journey.

All we know is, that something, or many things in its journey damaged it.

So when the Handbook states Fury witstood nullification:

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/233/furywithstoodod1.th.jpg


The Handbook is 100% accurate according to the On Panel proof presented.

I'm not going to entertain anymore circles on this subject,
the proof is there,
on panel and confirmed in the Handbooks,
whoever has a problem with the truth,
again,
take it up with Alan Moore, Alan Davis and the writers of the Marvel handbooks.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Heroes killed Fury? .... Technically speaking, it was the 'heroes' whom actually killed Fury - so 'xjustice' wasn't completely incorrect. Granted, he probably didn't know how weak Fury was from battling Jaspers just beforehand - but that statement was true, for the most part.

Originally posted by Galan007

Technically speaking, it was the 'heroes' whom actually killed Fury -
so 'xjustice' wasn't completely incorrect.
Granted, he probably didn't know
how weak Fury was from battling Jaspers just beforehand -
but that statement was true, for the most part.
I think you know I know this story in and out.
It's ignorant to state Fury was defeated by heroes
without adding the stipulation behind the defeat,
which you just pointed out, and which we have always known.

He meant it the way he conveyed the post,
trying to make fun of the Fury because I'm debating on it's behalf.

This goes back Galan, it's between him and I,
it's not about the debate,
it's about appearing in threads I'm debating in
and agreeing with the guy I'm debating with,
regardless of how wrong they are.

Again, this goes back, even slightly before you joined the forum.
So just, don't mind it good friend.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I have no idea, which is why I've said several times our imaginations can run wild,
since none of us know what the Fury encountered.

Then Please master let it run wild, you know more about the cosmic hierarchy and so forth then I do, what could the fury have encountered that is more destroying then the CN?

Originally posted by Mr Master
You're disagreeing with the On Panel evidence,
and the confirmation withIN the Handbook.

And really, who can debate against that?

Have I...

I stated that fury survived the attack because it shows that clearly on panel, what I then stated doesn't conflict with the on panel scans ore handbook references, first I gave a example of a incident (ss and Odin) where the receiver of the attack didn't show any signs of damage which fury didn't either no conflict there. Second the handbook where even you doesn't know what effect the writer choosed to lay into Withstood (no conflict there either except my disagreement with you on the words meaning) it could be immune but it could be highly resistant too, two very different meanings of the same word.

A third thought if the handbook writer by Withstood meant Immune then fury being immune to 238 Jaspers Reality warping shouldn't have been affected by 616 warping him either (even though he was more powerful then his 238 counterpart) because fury would be well, immune to reality warping. The amount put into the effect should be of no value since the being (the Fury) is immune.

Originally posted by Mr Master
and agreeing with the guy I'm debating with,
regardless of how wrong they are.

Refering to me Master

If that is the case I will just leave the debate in it's tomb

After further reviewing the evidence presented, i say he will stop at 2

I originally had him stopped at 3....but i dont see the evidence, i actually see more evidence that in comics, just because one method could not stop someone another wont..

Fury withstood the CN
But was hurt in transit to the 616 universe

Just because someone is immune to cold does not make them immune to heat,just because someone is immune to the CN does not mean they will be immune to the Omega Effect..or even the power cosmic..not even if they work on the same premise...the CN is a machine

All this double talk about the CN and how it works and this travelling from one universe to another is pointless...fury was damaged by transit and was taken down by two heroes who are not even in the surfers league....for the story or not....Fury needs materials to repair and adapt, i dont see it.

Jaspers and his creation...overated...big time...its just my opinion