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Wo wins? I used the search function *gasp* and I found nothing about this subject. No BFR or "Speed blitz" Prep time: 5 minutes, no outside help.

I'm going with Namor.

Underwater, absolutely namor10/10. On land namor 8/10. colossus could last long enough for namor to dry out but it wil rarely happen.

I'll go with Namor as well.

Two threads about this, one with Ultimate and one with 616. I think both are 20+ pages long.

And Namor wins, he has edge in everything besides durability.

Probably Namor wins... but after a tough and long match.

There is? Damn, The search function truly sucks.. It only gave me answers with Iron Man vs both of these characters.

But, IMO Colossus has a fair chance. I mean, if Namor doesn't sport his new jacket which keeps him hydrated. Colossus could wear him down. What are the official stats for each? Link?

Namor 7/10. Namor is not fast enough to speedblitz colossus.

According to DC he is

Originally posted by Jyppe
There is? Damn, The search function truly sucks.. It only gave me answers with Iron Man vs both of these characters.

But, IMO Colossus has a fair chance. I mean, if Namor doesn't sport his new jacket which keeps him hydrated. Colossus could wear him down. What are the official stats for each? Link? The only edge I see Namor has is speed.

Colossus:

Intel.-2
Strength-6
Speed-3
Durabilty-6
Energy proj.-1
Fighting skills-4

Namor:

Intel.-2
Strength-6
Speed-3
Durability-6
Energy proj.-2
Fighting skills-3

Those stats are from the handbooks wich alot of people disregard.

On land I say 50/50. In water Colossus will do better than most guys cause he does not breathe but Namor will beat him in water.

Well, Sounds reasonable. So it'll be like 5/10? or something similiar? Aren't all fights located in central park unless the author says differently.. *Cough* rules *cough*.

.......namor

616 colossus loses but does OK
Ult. colossus buries namor easily

How is ult.colossus better than 616?

Originally posted by Darth Martin
How is ult.colossus better than 616?

Far stronger and has far more strength feats.

If Namor gets him into the water its over

Colossus has little to no experience fighting in the water or with Namor

Plus, he's made of metal so he'll just sink.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Far stronger and has far more strength feats.

How is he stronger

I have seen nothing yet that proves he is stronger.

If you mean that bullcrap scene where he beats Magneto or anything he does in Ultimate War then that dosent count

Originally posted by Grimm22
How is he stronger

I have seen nothing yet that proves he is stronger.

If you mean that bullcrap scene where he beats Magneto or anything he does in Ultimate War then that dosent count

No, he lifted a submerged submarine as well as stopped a train going at full speed dead in his tracks. Look at the colossus respect thread

Originally posted by King_Mungi
No, he lifted a submerged submarine as well as stopped a train going at full speed dead in his tracks. Look at the colossus respect thread

I know, I have nearly all of the Ult. X-Men TPB's

I kind of find that silly considering it took 3 Europen Heros to do it and 3x Euro Heros have more strength than Colossus

Still it dosent bother me nearly as much as those other things

Originally posted by Grimm22
How is he stronger

I have seen nothing yet that proves he is stronger.

If you mean that bullcrap scene where he beats Magneto or anything he does in Ultimate War then that dosent count Just because you don't like what happened in Ultimate War doesn't mean it don't count.

Europen heros?

Colossus. On land, Namor really doesn't have anything that Colossus hasn't seen before. Yea, he's far faster than Colossus, but Namor's been caught before. As soon as Colossus gets his hands on him, it's going to be quite the bad day for Namor.

And in water? Well, Colossus doesn't need to breathe and doesn't lose any durability when underwater. And yes, I know that Namor is near-unbeatable in the water. But really, what's he gonna do to Colossus? Seriously, I'm curious as to what Namor has in his arsenal that can actually take out Colossus. Cuz I don't believe he has such an attack.

I see this as:

On land-- Colossus 7-8/10.
In water-- Colossus/Namor 5/10.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Colossus. On land, Namor really doesn't have anything that Colossus hasn't seen before. Yea, he's far faster than Colossus, but Namor's been caught before. As soon as Colossus gets his hands on him, it's going to be quite the bad day for Namor.

And in water? Well, Colossus doesn't need to breathe and doesn't lose any durability when underwater. And yes, I know that Namor is near-unbeatable in the water. But really, what's he gonna do to Colossus? Seriously, I'm curious as to what Namor has in his arsenal that can actually take out Colossus. Cuz I don't believe he has such an attack.

I see this as:

On land-- Colossus 7-8/10.
In water-- Colossus/Namor 5/10.
On land, Namor is still stronger than Colossus and has taken blows from Thor and Hulk without much trouble.

In water, Namor is FAR more agile and maneuverable than Colossus and would never be touched.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
The only edge I see Namor has is speed.

Colossus:

Intel.-2
Strength-6
Speed-3
Durabilty-6
Energy proj.-1
Fighting skills-4

Namor:

Intel.-2
Strength-6
Speed-3
Durability-6
Energy proj.-2
Fighting skills-3

Those stats are from the handbooks wich alot of people disregard.

On land I say 50/50. In water Colossus will do better than most guys cause he does not breathe but Namor will beat him in water.

I disregard them because they contradict comics, and comics always go above handbooks in canon.

In comics, Namor has greater strenght feats, greater intelligence feats, greater speed feats, greater fighting skill feats...

All Colossus has is durability. On land, Namor is still stronger, FAR faster, far more agile, faaaaaaaaar more experienced, far more skilled....Colossus can't do anything...even if he got his hands to Namor, Namor would just use his better skills to get rid of him. And he is stronger then Colossus too.

Namor 8/10 on land. Colossus is durable, but he can't take pounding from a guy who can deck Beta Ray Bill with one punch and cause earthquakes with his punches forever (and those are just one of the feats that Colossus has nothing to compare with). And let's also note that Namor could land more then one punch like that in second if he wished.

Originally posted by Accel
On land, Namor is still stronger than Colossus and has taken blows from Thor and Hulk without much trouble.

In water, Namor is FAR more agile and maneuverable than Colossus and would never be touched.

On land, Namor is not stronger than Colossus. If anything, I'd say their equal. Colossus has also taken blows from Juggernaut and Gladiator and gotten back up and put up great fights against both. And people tend to think that Colossus is some lumbering oath. When transformed, he's actually quite fast, both in terms of speed and reflexes. And he's far more agile than most give him credit for, as he's displayed over the years. And, of course, a very well-trained fighter that has surprised many of his enemies before.

And in the water, I know Namor is far more agile, maneuverable, and faster. But still, what is he going to do? That's my question. I can't think of anything that Namor can do, even underwater, that will take out Colossus.

Hey, DC. I think this is going to turn into a you vs. me thread, haha. And you know that I truly do understand and respect Namor, so don't think I don't. Alas, I am not backing down, my friend.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
On land, Namor is not stronger than Colossus. If anything, I'd say their equal. Colossus has also taken blows from Juggernaut and Gladiator and gotten back up and put up great fights against both. And people tend to think that Colossus is some lumbering oath. When transformed, he's actually quite fast, both in terms of speed and reflexes. And he's far more agile than most give him credit for, as he's displayed over the years. And, of course, a very well-trained fighter that has surprised many of his enemies before.

And in the water, I know Namor is far more agile, maneuverable, and faster. But still, what is he going to do? That's my question. I can't think of anything that Namor can do, even underwater, that will take out Colossus.

If Namor is straight from water (which I think he is) he is stronger then Colossus on land too.

And plain old beating will take out Colossus, on land or on sea. He has been beaten by physical attacks before.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
If Namor is straight from water (which I think he is) he is stronger then Colossus on land too.

ANd plain old beating will take out Colossus. He has been beaten by physical attacks before.

By people far stronger than he, however. Yes, Gladiator and Juggernaut have taken him down physically, but their really leagues away in strength. And yet Colossus still hangs with them for a long, extensive fight.

I know how strong Namor is straight out of the water, but I'm not convinced that he's stronger than Colossus. I would definitely say they are basically equivalent in strength.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
By people far stronger than he, however. Yes, Gladiator and Juggernaut have taken him down physically, but their really leagues away in strength. And yet Colossus still hangs with them for a long, extensive fight.
Colossus hangs with them.

Namor goes toe to toe physically with the likes of Thor, Hulk and Iron Man. A big difference.

Namor will just have to hit him more times then Gladiator and Juggernaut. With his hand speeds, I think few freighter toppling, building destroying, Nebulon decking punches per second should do the trick.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I know how strong Namor is straight out of the water, but I'm not convinced that he's stronger than Colossus. I would definitely say they are basically equivalent in strength.

I am convinced. He has far greater strength feats. Greater lifting feats, greater punching feats, greater fighting feats, feats that just put him to another level.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Colossus hangs with them.

Namor goes toe to toe physically with the likes of Thor, Hulk and Iron Man. A big difference.

Namor will just have to hit him more times then Gladiator and Juggernaut. With his hand speeds, I think few freighter toppling, building destroying, Nebulon decking punches per second should do the trick.



I am convinced. He has far greater strength feats. Greater lifting feats, greater punching feats, greater fighting feats, feats that just put him to another level.

Yea. Colossus hangs with them. While I don't believe for one second that Namor could do the same against Juggernaut or Gladiator. I'm just calling it like I see it, man. You know I understand and respect Namor.

Colossus also went toe-to-toe with Iron Man and seemed to have quite the strength advantage over him when he had him in that hold. I just wish 616 Colossus had more showings than he does, to show off his awesome strength.

Colossus also lasted almost a full, complete round with Champion as well, staying in there and fully taking on un-pulled punches from Champion. He went down, yes, but he took a crap-load of punishment before. I don't think that Namor can produce the same amount of punishment that Champion dealt him.

And Colossus has taken all sorts of punishment before. A vast assortment of explosions, raging infernos, super-sharp objects, extremely high falls, very powerful magic, and a plethora of unique mutant powers that's just shrugged off. Sure, Namor can hit him super fast, many more times than Colossus can hit him. But when Colossus gets his hits in, they will definitely count. Don't get wrong, I know that Namor's durability is high as well, just not nearly as high as Colossus's. So while Namor can dish it out just as good, he can't take it nearly as well.

Anyway. On land, I believe Colossus wins 7/10.
Assuming there's water involved, I still believe 5/10 or a stalemate, mainly because I don't believe Namor can put him down, even underwater.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Yea. Colossus hangs with them. While I don't believe for one second that Namor could do the same against Juggernaut or Gladiator. I'm just calling it like I see it, man. You know I understand and respect Namor.

Yeah, I know that.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Colossus also went toe-to-toe with Iron Man and seemed to have quite the strength advantage over him when he had him in that hold. I just wish 616 Colossus had more showings than he does, to show off his awesome strength.

Namor has always shown to have a strength advantage over Iron Man...it is his weapons which usually do stuff like dehydrate him.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Colossus also lasted almost a full, complete round with Champion as well, staying in there and fully taking on un-pulled punches from Champion. He went down, yes, but he took a crap-load of punishment before. I don't think that Namor can produce the same amount of punishment that Champion dealt him.

Champion did not have Power Gem, though. He's not that strong and tough without it.

Didn't Thing do even better against Champ?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
And Colossus has taken all sorts of punishment before. A vast assortment of explosions, raging infernos, super-sharp objects, extremely high falls, very powerful magic, and a plethora of unique mutant powers that's just shrugged off. Sure, Namor can hit him super fast, many more times than Colossus can hit him. But when Colossus gets his hits in, they will definitely count. Don't get wrong, I know that Namor's durability is high as well, just not nearly as high as Colossus's. So while Namor can dish it out just as good, he can't take it nearly as well.

Indeed, but so has Namor. I know Colossus is durable. More durable then Namor. I've admitted that. But he has been taken down by physical things before. Namor has shown that he is strong enough to go toe to toe with people who are over Colossus's class. He has been able to hurt the likes of Thor, Beta Ray Bill and Hulk with his punches. He was able to topple an entire skyscraper-sized building with a single punch, and he was not even punching it's foundations. His punches were able to move hundreds of thousands of tons (Doctor Doom's floating city, the bottle they were inside, and thousands of tons of water). When he was weakened, he was able to cause island spanning earthquakes. He has knocked out the Hulk. Shattered titanium-

Can Colossus take one punch from Namor? Yes, with ease. Ten? Yes. But what about fifty? A hundred? All landed to vunerable places in very short time? Don't get me wrong, Colossus is durable. But in the fights he's been in, only few punches have been landed at him. Namor, however, if he uses his speed, can land five punches in something like a second.

Colossus can punch back, but Namor is stronger(know you don't like it, but he has proven this through feats), more experienced, faster and more skilled. Colossus's punches are not much compared to most punches Namor has blocked/dodged/taken. He's fought and taken punches beings that are both stronger and more skilled then Colossus.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Anyway. On land, I believe Colossus wins 7/10.
Assuming there's water involved, I still believe 5/10 or a stalemate, mainly because I don't believe Namor can put him down, even underwater.

In the end, Colossus can land only so few punches, and Namor can take them. Whereas Namor will land harder punches at more faster rate. Colossus is good, but when it comes to experience in slugging it out, Namor has been doing it before he has been born. Namor takes this 8/10 on land, seeing has durability is the only thing Colossus has advantage, and Namor has advantage on everything else.

In water, he will defeat him in same way, only that in there, Colossus won't land single punch, Namor will always be on top notch condition with his punches always being as strong. On water, its 9-10/10 for Namor.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Yeah, I know that.



Namor has always shown to have a strength advantage over Iron Man...it is his weapons which usually do stuff like dehydrate him.



Champion did not have Power Gem, though. He's not that strong and tough without it.

Didn't Thing do even better against Champ?



Indeed, but so has Namor. I know Colossus is durable. More durable then Namor. I've admitted that. But he has been taken down by physical things before. Namor has shown that he is strong enough to go toe to toe with people who are over Colossus's class. He has been able to hurt the likes of Thor, Beta Ray Bill and Hulk with his punches. He was able to topple an entire skyscraper-sized building with a single punch, and he was not even punching it's foundations. His punches were able to move hundreds of thousands of tons (Doctor Doom's floating city, the bottle they were inside, and thousands of tons of water). When he was weakened, he was able to cause island spanning earthquakes. He has knocked out the Hulk. Shattered titanium-

Can Colossus take one punch from Namor? Yes, with ease. Ten? Yes. But what about fifty? A hundred? All landed to vunerable places in very short time? Don't get me wrong, Colossus is durable. But in the fights he's been in, only few punches have been landed at him. Namor, however, if he uses his speed, can land five punches in something like a second.

Colossus can punch back, but Namor is stronger(know you don't like it, but he has proven this through feats), more experienced, faster and more skilled. Colossus's punches are not much compared to most punches Namor has blocked/dodged/taken. He's fought and taken punches beings that are both stronger and more skilled then Colossus.



In the end, Colossus can land only so few punches, and Namor can take them. Whereas Namor will land harder punches at more faster rate. Colossus is good, but when it comes to experience in slugging it out, Namor has been doing it before he has been born. Namor takes this 8/10 on land, seeing has durability is the only thing Colossus has advantage, and Namor has advantage on everything else.

In water, he will defeat him in same way, only that in there, Colossus won't land single punch, Namor will always be on top notch condition with his punches always being as strong. On water, its 9-10/10 for Namor.

If Colossus had even half of the spotlight that Namor had/has, you would see many more feats of strength on his part. But, since he's been cast aside by more popular characters, it's very rare when you see a great strength feat from him. He was once able to breach a seemingly impenetratable force with shear strength alone. This was a powerful force that several of his fellow X-Men as well as Dr. Strange could not breach. I think that's saying something.

And when his adrenaline kicks in, Colossus can become even stronger, gaining more power with rage as previous comic evidence has shown (not like the Hulk, but you get the picture).

And when he fought Gladiator, doesn't it seem logical and make sense that Glads would've been using his super-speed to lay more punches into Colossus? An opponent that was hanging with him and giving him a real tough fight? I think so. Yea, Glads took him down. But not after an epic battle between the two.

In the Champion fight, I don't recall whether or not he had the Power Gem. But even still, Champion was extremely powerful, so it's not like he was at Squid Boy strength when he finally put Colossus down. And yea, Thing did better than Colossus (if I recall correctly, wasn't it in his own comic, too? ), but it really wasn't much of a better showing.

One way I see Colossus able to win is by a choke-out. As fast as Namor is, with Colossus's durability and ability to take massive amounts of physical abuse from Namor, Colossus will eventually get his hands on him. And instead of puinching him, he can always just go straight for the throat with both hands and clench it with all his strength. Even Namor has to breathe (whether underwater or not). This can be done underwater, too. 'Specially since I don't recall Namor ever having gills, so closing his throat would still cause suffocation. I don't believe Namor has the strength to make Colossus release his grip. And even though you disagree, I believe they of the same strength level. Both mid-Class 100s.

I also seem to recall that Namor hurt himself pretty badly when Spidey coaxed him into flying through the smoke stacks of a ship. I know that Namor was out of the water for some time, but that move really damaged Namor and basically took him out the fight. On land, this fight could easily end up the same way, with Namor getting weaker and weaker, especially after he expends so much energy trying to put Colossus down. When he's weakened, Colosuss can dish out even more damage even faster since Namor would have trouble escaping.

And since the thread-starter didn't specifically mention the battlefield, I assume it's land. And so, I believe Colossus wins 7/10.

That's true. To a degree. IMO Official stats are there to show the character's limits, and the feats in the comics are there to fill the requirements.

I mean, not everything can be regarded as "canon". Hulk lifting a mountain, wolverine surviving a huge blast. Etc. Some people don't really have PIS feats, mostly because they don't have enough showings.

What's Namor's top feat (Strength wise) And what's Colossus' top feat (Strength wise again) Btw, how great is Namor's endurance? Does he tire, does he need to eat, does he need to take a wee?



Here's what I wrote on the first page : Aren't all fights located in central park unless the author says differently.. *Cough* rules *cough*.

Namor takes it to Collosus................7/10 on land.

Originally posted by Jyppe
What's Namor's top feat (Strength wise) And what's Colossus' top feat (Strength wise again) Btw, how great is Namor's endurance? Does he tire, does he need to eat, does he need to take a wee?

Thank you, Jyppe, I almost forgot another advantage Colossus has against Namor.

Colossus has nigh-limitless endurance/stamina and doesn't need to eat, drink, or breathe. Namor, on the other hand, while having superhuman endurance/stamina, will eventually tire before Colossus, as well as need to eat/drink/breathe (whether underwater or not), and yes, I assume he'll have to make a tinkle at some time.

Originally posted by Jyppe
That's true. To a degree. IMO Official stats are there to show the character's limits, and the feats in the comics are there to fill the requirements.


Even after character has done feats greater then handbooks state before handbooks were even created?

May I ask you, what do you think the handbooks base their bios on?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
If Colossus had even half of the spotlight that Namor had/has, you would see many more feats of strength on his part. But, since he's been cast aside by more popular characters, it's very rare when you see a great strength feat from him. He was once able to breach a seemingly impenetratable force with shear strength alone. This was a powerful force that several of his fellow X-Men as well as Dr. Strange could not breach. I think that's saying something.

Yes, but then again, Namor has feats of breaking a forcefield that Strange's spells or Hulk's blows were not able to break, fighting against interdimensional hurricane that Silver Surfer, Strange and Hulk were powerless, breaking the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak, knocking out the Hulk with a single punch...

I agree that if Colossus would have more spotlight, he would have more feats. But as for now, he has nothing to show that he would be close to Namor in strenght.

Namor is stronger.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
And when his adrenaline kicks in, Colossus can become even stronger, gaining more power with rage as previous comic evidence has shown (not like the Hulk, but you get the picture).

Adrenaline makes everyone stronger. Namor included-

Originally posted by Metalmanx
And when he fought Gladiator, doesn't it seem logical and make sense that Glads would've been using his super-speed to lay more punches into Colossus? An opponent that was hanging with him and giving him a real tough fight? I think so. Yea, Glads took him down. But not after an epic battle between the two.

Gladiator did not seem to use his speed at all. And the fight lasted for one page and Gladiator was smiling all the time. It wasn't really epic to me.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
In the Champion fight, I don't recall whether or not he had the Power Gem. But even still, Champion was extremely powerful, so it's not like he was at Squid Boy strength when he finally put Colossus down. And yea, Thing did better than Colossus (if I recall correctly, wasn't it in his own comic, too? ), but it really wasn't much of a better showing. Just saying that Thing was able to fight against Champion really good (Better). Champion did not seem to be near as strong as he is with the power gem, seeing as Thing lasted so long against him.


Originally posted by Metalmanx
One way I see Colossus able to win is by a choke-out. As fast as Namor is, with Colossus's durability and ability to take massive amounts of physical abuse from Namor, Colossus will eventually get his hands on him. And instead of puinching him, he can always just go straight for the throat with both hands and clench it with all his strength. Even Namor has to breathe (whether underwater or not). This can be done underwater, too. 'Specially since I don't recall Namor ever having gills, so closing his throat would still cause suffocation. I don't believe Namor has the strength to make Colossus release his grip. And even though you disagree, I believe they of the same strength level. Both mid-Class 100s.
Namor has proven that he is stronger then Colossus. He has greater feats. He has been able to be in space for minutes with no air. He would get free of the grip, seeing as all he would need to do is to punch Colossus in the head or just break his grip (he's done it to the likes of Master Man and Dark Hulk.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I also seem to recall that Namor hurt himself pretty badly when Spidey coaxed him into flying through the smoke stacks of a ship. I know that Namor was out of the water for some time, but that move really damaged Namor and basically took him out the fight. On land, this fight could easily end up the same way, with Namor getting weaker and weaker, especially after he expends so much energy trying to put Colossus down. When he's weakened, Colosuss can dish out even more damage even faster since Namor would have trouble escaping. In normal fight situation, Namor won't dehydrate that fast. He had already been away from water a long time, plus he had been put through pipe. And he still had edge over Spidey. I'm not sure what costume he has in this fight, but if he has his black one, he's not dehydrating.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
And since the thread-starter didn't specifically mention the battlefield, I assume it's land. And so, I believe Colossus wins 7/10.

With Namor having far greater feats in anything exept durability that really is not happening. Colossus's durability is not great enough that Namor could not overcome them. Beta Ray Bill, Thor, Hulk, and other characters who have feats ranging from taking nuclear bombs to being next to the Sun have felt his punches. Colossus will be no exeption.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Thank you, Jyppe, I almost forgot another advantage Colossus has against Namor.

Colossus has nigh-limitless endurance/stamina and doesn't need to eat, drink, or breathe. Namor, on the other hand, while having superhuman endurance/stamina, will eventually tire before Colossus, as well as need to eat/drink/breathe (whether underwater or not), and yes, I assume he'll have to make a tinkle at some time.

It's not like this fight will last hours.

I'd say 50-100 punches would drop Colossus.

wow piotr is really being slept on in this thread. look here's the deal in water its 70-30 tipping in Namor's favor, but on land its 60-40 for colossus. colossus is no punk roun' here dudes. its not like when he was a teenager and was at class 70, now that he's a grown adult he's class100, plus the fact that after his "death" ord was mucking with his genes that made him a little stronger, class100 plus if you will.

recently in the new"new xmen" he effortlessly, key word effortlessly, repelled Hellion's massive rage driven telekinetic field while taking on all the other students in the danger room, so he's no stranger to massive forces. other than if they're fighting under water where namor is in his element i dont see any outright advantage that he has over piotr. they are just gonna slug it out like two super strong characters would. smacking each other around and cuasing massive amounts of properrty damage. but from a fundamental point of view Namor, while really resilient, is no hulk when it comes to endurance---meaning that fatigue poisons will build up in him significantly faster than colossus.

in fact it usually says in colossus profiles that he can perform at "optimum levels for days BEFORE fatigue poisons START to build up in his body" while with Namor if he doesnt submerge himself for a recharge, within a WEEK he's at almost human levels, so after a few hours(which is what i would assume a battle like this would last) a combination of him being out of water, and the physical exertion of fighting someone who matches him in physical might, his strentgh would decrease at a more accelerated rate, than if he were just chilling at his manhattan penthouse--so if you ppl think that namor is just gonna get out of water and then BANG!-- ZING!--POW--KURPLUNCH! and down goes colossus you're f ****ing crazy

Oooooh, he's calling you out DC.

My favorite comic is the one where Namor walks into Matt Murdock's office and tells everyone he is gonna sue the entire human race. And everyones like what?

Originally posted by manjaro
other than if they're fighting under water where namor is in his element i dont see any outright advantage that he has over piotr.



Man, I don't know, how about...

Speed:
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/3664/namorfeat31lb.gif
http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/3176/namorefeat513dy.gif
http://img495.imageshack.us/img495/152/namorspeedfeat318vl.gif

Strength:
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/4655/hulk1998p266qo.jpg
http://img290.imageshack.us/img290/7325/namorfeat393lr.gif
http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/6122/namorfeat966tw.gif

Fighting skills:
http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=mj4vmp
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/9769/namorskills202rk.gif
http://img259.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorddspidey16pb.gif

Experience:
http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/5742/namorskills18xu.gif

Intelligence:
http://img492.imageshack.us/img492/3104/namorfeat1108ky.gif


Uhh...no...Ord was testing him to make "The Cure" for the mutantkind...where did you get this infomation? There is no "Class 100+", and Colossus has not shown anything to be more then low-mid tier one.



Wow. Hellion.

Namor has released himself from Crimson Bands of Cyttorak, created by DOCTOR STRANGE. Namor's endurance is also great. He went toe to toe with Hulk for an entire issue in New York City. If he has his black costume (which is his current one) he will go along even longer.



I think this fight will last twenty minutes at most. Namor has every imaginable advantage over Colossus, including his speed, which he can use to rain multiple Beta Ray Bill decking punches per second straight to Colossus's face if he wishes. Colossus won't match him in physical might at all, as their feats have shown.

Namor= More stronger, smarter, better fighter, more experienced, faster...

Colossus: More durable

See the difference?

ill g with namor but Where is Snoop?

Namor for the win.

Namor is a beast... I think Iron Man could beat Colossus... but I think Namor can beat Iron man... therefore (With my mastery at deductive reasoning) I think Namor can beat Colossus.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Colossus. On land, Namor really doesn't have anything that Colossus hasn't seen before. Yea, he's far faster than Colossus, but Namor's been caught before. As soon as Colossus gets his hands on him, it's going to be quite the bad day for Namor.

And in water? Well, Colossus doesn't need to breathe and doesn't lose any durability when underwater. And yes, I know that Namor is near-unbeatable in the water. But really, what's he gonna do to Colossus? Seriously, I'm curious as to what Namor has in his arsenal that can actually take out Colossus. Cuz I don't believe he has such an attack.

I see this as:

On land-- Colossus 7-8/10.
In water-- Colossus/Namor 5/10.






It's nice to see that your FANBOYness hasn't stopped you from being impartial.

The real score is:

Land Namor 8/10

Water 10/10

What are the more recent Namor feats? Maybe his age has weakened him

How skilled Namor really is? I mean, his reflexes aren't that impressive after I've read some Wolverine comics

Originally posted by Jyppe
What are the more recent Namor feats? Maybe his age has weakened him

How skilled Namor really is? I mean, his reflexes aren't that impressive after I've read some Wolverine comics

Oh man. doh DC's gonna chew you up and spit you out.

Haha I was thinking the same thing, Batdude!

Originally posted by batdude123
Oooooh, he's calling you out DC. Just wait till I get invovled.

Originally posted by Rick/Genis
Haha I was thinking the same thing, Batdude!

Originally posted by batdude123
Oh man. doh DC's gonna chew you up and spit you out.

Y'know. There are smilies in my post indicating I was only joking
But seriously though. I'd love to hear more about Namor's recent feats.

Originally posted by Jyppe
What are the more recent Namor feats? Maybe his age has weakened him

After being resurrected TWICE by Neptune, and being, well Immortal? Nope. When a man is descentant of an god, age does not weaken him. But as for some of his recent stuff...from, let's say year '98 and upwards.

Namor makes the In-Betweener's head tilt while being extremely weakened (To the point that In-Betweener only needs to grab him to stop him). If you know who the I-B is, you know how impressive even that is.
http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/1807/namorhurtinginbetweener0mf.jpg

Namor topples an skyscraper-sized building with one punch.
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/9251/building8vo.gif

Namor lifts an 3000 ton destroyer with laughable ease and smacks Attuma with it (On that pressure, it weighs more then twice of it's weigh, btw):
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/4655/hulk1998p266qo.jpg

He simply shoves an multi-ton freighter to the safety while it is on the influence of interdimensonal whirlpool that the Avengers were quite powerless against.
http://img486.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorfeat902ny.gif
http://img486.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorfeat910lv.gif
http://img486.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorfeat921ig.gif
http://img390.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorfeat934wu.gif

He fights Iron Man:
http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/3332/ill15167si.gif
http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/4407/ill17184fx.gif
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/1033/ill19202fn.gif

Punches Radioactive Man through a wall:
http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/8735/namorthunder12ju.gif

Just some of the stuff he's done.

Originally posted by Jyppe
How skilled Namor really is? I mean, his reflexes aren't that impressive after I've read some Wolverine comics

*sigh*

Here I will just post some fights and scan's to show his skills. Most of them have him fighting guys much faster then Colossus.

http://img259.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorddspidey16pb.gif

http://img306.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captnamor18vl.gif
http://img306.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captnamor26el.gif
http://img306.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captnamor31vu.gif

http://img438.imageshack.us/img438/7666/namorvsthor13cu.gif
http://img438.imageshack.us/img438/5135/namorvsthor26hy.gif
http://img438.imageshack.us/img438/8512/namorvsthor33dk.gif
http://img438.imageshack.us/img438/4816/namorvsthor48yh.gif
http://img438.imageshack.us/img438/5492/namorvsthor58lw.gif

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/9638/namorskills186hr.gif

http://i1.tinypic.com/mj4far.gif

http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namordemon14us.gif
http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namordemon27du.gif
http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namordemon34jd.gif
http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namordemon42qm.gif

As for reflexes, then...

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/3664/namorfeat31lb.gif

http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/3176/namorefeat513dy.gif

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/5183/namorfeat660vq.gif
http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/1045/namorfeat671oy.gif

http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/9951/turninggun8tc.gif

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/7546/namorspeedfeat598hg.gif

Are these enough...


...or shall I post the rest 95% of the feats I have collected?

Alot of people think Namor is stronger. Well being they want actually comic feats etc. rather than handbooks that's fine. Ok, now here's why I think Colossus is stronger than Namor and I am backing this up with logic and comic evidence. Now Namor has lifted all of those boats and submarines etc. with the help of bouyancy. That's fine. But the best way to gauge strength is to compare head to head feats rather than saying Namor has lifted this and liftd that. How do we know Colossus cannot lift the things Namor did? He never tried! It's rather simple.

Now on to the fun part. Ok, now anybody remember the time Thing overpowered Namor? Yea, he pulled Namor OUT OF THE WATER and onto the shore. That is overpowering somebody and proving your stronger. Now I remember a time when Thing and Colossus armwrestled. They went 2 out of 3 and they were ties and one each but at the start of the third match Kitty distracted Colossus and made him loose the third match. Well that was in 1982 and Colossus has been upgraded in strength since then by Magneto which has been mentioned many times in comics. Now Thing was class 85 back then and has not been upgraded OFFICIALY. Now that shows that Thing has shown to be stronger than Namor. And it also shows that Thing and a teenage Colossus are equal in strength. And now that Colossus has been upgraded from Magneto and reach maturity I think it's safe to say Colossus is stronger than Namor.

Now on to fighting skills. Namor has level 3 fighting and Colossus has level 4 for a reason. Colossus trained every day sometimes twice a day in the highest tech training facility in all of comics. I can show scans all day of Colossus training. Can anybody show AS MANY scans of Namor training as hard as Colossus? I don't think so.

Durabilty isn't worth debating cause Colossus has that edge.

Speed I give to Namor. But Colossus is not slouch there himself.

Agility is pretty close. Colossus has shown some good agility/leaping feats.

Stamina Colossus can go all day and maybe a little longer. If Namor does not have his little black suit on he will loose power pretty fast. Like when he had to have Captain Marvel help him fly that metal object.

On land I say Colossus and Namor split or slight edge to Colossus.

Water I give to Namor but he'll have to work for it.

DarkCrawler - Thanks for the first screenshots. Quite nice shots indeed. But I was only kidding about the later part. I'm quite aware of his talents as I skimmed through your huge a*s thread (Props for it btw)

wow really old scans of namor manhandling captain america and and daredevil..yeah that'll convince me that he would do the same to colossus those reflexes almost mean nothing,(him dodging sharp projectiles) cuz colossus wont be throwing anything at him. the only thing he can hope to do is fly around and tag him continously, but when it comes to strong guys there will be a lot of grappling and smashing involved. im not saying that colossus is gonna own completely, but he wont be whimped out like everybody is saying, plus i never meant to convey that there is any such thing as class100+, but it was meant as the same thing when profiles say so and so can "lift well in excess of 100tons" and thats what colossus can do. and despite what everyone esle belives NAmor is not gonna just own either....so again i say:

on land 6/10 colosssus
in water 7/10 namor

on a side note i always find it to be quite hilarious that ppl on these boards only disreagrd handbooks when its their guy that looks bad

If Namors so tough how come he couldnt kill DareDevil? Ever!

Strength

Out of Water - 85 tons

Just Out of Water - 100 tons

In water - 100+ tons

maybe i missed the namor boat, perhaps soeone can help me--the black suit keeps him hydrated right?

Originally posted by manjaro
maybe i missed the namor boat, perhaps soeone can help me--the black suit keeps him hydrated right?

I guess

All I know is that it looks uber badass

In the water, Steel boy would sink like the titanic, so Namor wins 10/10.

On land, Namor would take more wins than Collossus 7/10.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Just because you don't like what happened in Ultimate War doesn't mean it don't count.






Thats a very similar veiwpoint to the one that you have about EXTREMIS Iron man and his flying out past the moon... Right?

Because It happened in a cannon mag doesn't mean it doesn't count.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Alot of people think Namor is stronger. Well being they want actually comic feats etc. rather than handbooks that's fine. Ok, now here's why I think Colossus is stronger than Namor and I am backing this up with logic and comic evidence. Now Namor has lifted all of those boats and submarines etc. with the help of bouyancy. That's fine. But the best way to gauge strength is to compare head to head feats rather than saying Namor has lifted this and liftd that. How do we know Colossus cannot lift the things Namor did? He never tried! It's rather simple.

Now on to the fun part. Ok, now anybody remember the time Thing overpowered Namor? Yea, he pulled Namor OUT OF THE WATER and onto the shore. That is overpowering somebody and proving your stronger. Now I remember a time when Thing and Colossus armwrestled. They went 2 out of 3 and they were ties and one each but at the start of the third match Kitty distracted Colossus and made him loose the third match. Well that was in 1982 and Colossus has been upgraded in strength since then by Magneto which has been mentioned many times in comics. Now Thing was class 85 back then and has not been upgraded OFFICIALY. Now that shows that Thing has shown to be stronger than Namor. And it also shows that Thing and a teenage Colossus are equal in strength. And now that Colossus has been upgraded from Magneto and reach maturity I think it's safe to say Colossus is stronger than Namor.

Now on to fighting skills. Namor has level 3 fighting and Colossus has level 4 for a reason. Colossus trained every day sometimes twice a day in the highest tech training facility in all of comics. I can show scans all day of Colossus training. Can anybody show AS MANY scans of Namor training as hard as Colossus? I don't think so.

Durabilty isn't worth debating cause Colossus has that edge.

Speed I give to Namor. But Colossus is not slouch there himself.

Agility is pretty close. Colossus has shown some good agility/leaping feats.

Stamina Colossus can go all day and maybe a little longer. If Namor does not have his little black suit on he will loose power pretty fast. Like when he had to have Captain Marvel help him fly that metal object.

On land I say Colossus and Namor split or slight edge to Colossus.

Water I give to Namor but he'll have to work for it.




Not exactly a complete science...

The THING has stalemated both THOR and Herc in armwrestling does that mean that he's as strong as either of those two?

excactly!!!

Originally posted by Tony Stark



It's nice to see that your FANBOYness hasn't stopped you from being impartial.

The real score is:

Land Namor 8/10

Water 10/10
Like you're one to talk... rolleyes1
Originally posted by snoopdogg
Alot of people think Namor is stronger. Well being they want actually comic feats etc. rather than handbooks that's fine. Ok, now here's why I think Colossus is stronger than Namor and I am backing this up with logic and comic evidence. Now Namor has lifted all of those boats and submarines etc. with the help of bouyancy. That's fine. But the best way to gauge strength is to compare head to head feats rather than saying Namor has lifted this and liftd that. How do we know Colossus cannot lift the things Namor did? He never tried! It's rather simple.
Namor has better feats and has proved he's around top-tier in strength. Colossus COULD be at his level, but without the proper feats, we can't just go in with speculation.
Originally posted by snoopdogg
Now on to the fun part. Ok, now anybody remember the time Thing overpowered Namor? Yea, he pulled Namor OUT OF THE WATER and onto the shore. That is overpowering somebody and proving your stronger. Now I remember a time when Thing and Colossus armwrestled. They went 2 out of 3 and they were ties and one each but at the start of the third match Kitty distracted Colossus and made him loose the third match. Well that was in 1982 and Colossus has been upgraded in strength since then by Magneto which has been mentioned many times in comics. Now Thing was class 85 back then and has not been upgraded OFFICIALY. Now that shows that Thing has shown to be stronger than Namor. And it also shows that Thing and a teenage Colossus are equal in strength. And now that Colossus has been upgraded from Magneto and reach maturity I think it's safe to say Colossus is stronger than Namor.
Yeah, I remember that. Remember all those times where Namor overpowered Thing?

This also implies that Namor was also Class 85 or weaker, which Dc has proved many times to be false.
Originally posted by snoopdogg
Now on to fighting skills. Namor has level 3 fighting and Colossus has level 4 for a reason. Colossus trained every day sometimes twice a day in the highest tech training facility in all of comics. I can show scans all day of Colossus training. Can anybody show AS MANY scans of Namor training as hard as Colossus? I don't think so.
And as DC has pointed out numerous times, Namor has been trained by Atlantis's greatest warriors since he was a kid.
Originally posted by manjaro
on a side note i always find it to be quite hilarious that ppl on these boards only disreagrd handbooks when its their guy that looks bad
I disregard them because I prefer feats. IIRC, the handbooks state/have stated that Black Bolt's scream is only as destructive as a nuke (his whispers have proved more powerful than that), Thor is only three times more durable than a normal human (he HAS to be more durable to take the amount of damage he's been shown capable of taking in his career), Namor is Class 85 (he's shown Class 100 feats before and after the handbooks were created), Wolverine knows every fighting style on the planet (he hasn't demonstrated this with his 'hack 'n slash' routine), Hulk's base strength is only 75 tons (he's moved thousands and even billions of tons at his base), etc...

Originally posted by Accel


Namor has better feats and has proved he's around top-tier in strength. Colossus COULD be at his level, but without the proper feats, we can't just go in with speculation.If that works for ya go ahead.
Originally posted by Accel

Yeah, I remember that. Remember all those times where Namor overpowered Thing? Namor has never overpowered Thing. Only in water has be beaten him in a fight.

Originally posted by Accel


And as DC has pointed out numerous times, Namor has been trained by Atlantis's greatest warriors since he was a kid.
So what? like I said I can show scans of Colossus training. And show a handbook that says he has better skills than Namor.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Alot of people think Namor is stronger. Well being they want actually comic feats etc. rather than handbooks that's fine. Ok, now here's why I think Colossus is stronger than Namor and I am backing this up with logic and comic evidence. Now Namor has lifted all of those boats and submarines etc. with the help of bouyancy. That's fine. But the best way to gauge strength is to compare head to head feats rather than saying Namor has lifted this and liftd that. How do we know Colossus cannot lift the things Namor did? He never tried! It's rather simple.

Actually...no. Bouycancy would help if HE WAS NOT UNDER tons of pressure, and seeing as he moves the things he lifts, he needs to displace hundreds of tons of water. Bouyancy won't have anything to do with that.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Now on to the fun part. Ok, now anybody remember the time Thing overpowered Namor? Yea, he pulled Namor OUT OF THE WATER and onto the shore. That is overpowering somebody and proving your stronger. Now I remember a time when Thing and Colossus armwrestled. They went 2 out of 3 and they were ties and one each but at the start of the third match Kitty distracted Colossus and made him loose the third match. Well that was in 1982 and Colossus has been upgraded in strength since then by Magneto which has been mentioned many times in comics. Now Thing was class 85 back then and has not been upgraded OFFICIALY. Now that shows that Thing has shown to be stronger than Namor. And it also shows that Thing and a teenage Colossus are equal in strength. And now that Colossus has been upgraded from Magneto and reach maturity I think it's safe to say Colossus is stronger than Namor.

Yippee, let's all use ONE 60's Fantastic Four comic to prove that Thing is stronger. Let's ignore the facts that Namor has knocked out Thing with one move...THREE times. Let's ignore the fact that Namor was portrayed as a weakling compared to his current status then. And let's ignore all the other showings where Namor's strength has been shown to move around Thing like nothing.

I know! I'll do the same!

See! This is Colossus being hurt by Iron Man's repulsor blasts!
http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/7493/colossushurt4pz.jpg

And here is Namor taking full dose of them and he is unhurt! See! See?
!http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/2789/namorfeat1111ip.gif

I hereby now declare that Namor is more durable then Colossus!

Yay, we should all base our debates and cling to one scan...

...or let's not. Why? Because every character has low showings. Colossus has other durability feats that put him above being hurt by Iron Man's repulsor blasts. Namor has other other feats that show that his strenght is above being dragged out from sea by Thing. And feats that put him way above Colossus in strength.

Using one showing as the basis of your entire point is...uhh...a very bad thing.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Now on to fighting skills. Namor has level 3 fighting and Colossus has level 4 for a reason. Colossus trained every day sometimes twice a day in the highest tech training facility in all of comics. I can show scans all day of Colossus training. Can anybody show AS MANY scans of Namor training as hard as Colossus? I don't think so. And handbooks are disregarded here for a reason.

Can I show Namor training in a gym? No. Because unlike Colossus, he has honed his skills from eighty-five years of endless battle alongside training. Can I show you scans of Namor fighting people that Colossus won't have a chance of being equal in fight? Hell yeah. Can I show you scans of Namor stating that he has skills because he has been fighting his entire life? Of course I can. Can I show scans of Namor stating that Judo (Colossus's main fighting style, by the way) is primitive fighting art? You bet your head that I can!

Now, can you show me even half as many scans of Colossus fighting (and being pretty much equal with) opponents that Namor has fought? No, you can't. Because Namor has been fighting for longer then Colossus can even dream of. He's fought gods when Colossus's grandfather was still in his diapers. He's fought interdimensional demons before Colossus's father was even old enough to legally have sex. His experience AND skills absolutely DWARF Colossus's, and he has fights and feats to show that.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Durabilty isn't worth debating cause Colossus has that edge.

Neither are any other things besides durability.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Speed I give to Namor. But Colossus is not slouch there himself. But his speed is nothing compared to Namor's.

Agility is pretty close. Colossus has shown some good agility/leaping feats.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Stamina Colossus can go all day and maybe a little longer. If Namor does not have his little black suit on he will loose power pretty fast. Like when he had to have Captain Marvel help him fly that metal object.

Low showing syndroma is something that you have problems with, have you?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
On land I say Colossus and Namor split or slight edge to Colossus.

And I say that Namor will defeat him 8/10, because Colossus's only edge is durability, and Namor has advantage in everything else, as proven through feats.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Water I give to Namor but he'll have to work for it.

Ah, but bashing someone's head in while they are fighting in his own element is not work for Namor. It's a hobby.

Colossus has both the edge in durability AND endurance/stamina. Don't forget that. Stamina can make or break this fight. And I feel that stamina is very much-needed asset here.

Under water, Colossus really doesn't have much maneuverability, but he's still durable as hell. I'll give underwater to Namor 7/10.

On land, I'm still not convinced that Namor can defeat him the majority of the time. And it's not just because I don't want Namor to win, I truly don't think he can. Yes, he's faster and can fly. But they have basically equal strength, both being mid-Class 100s. Agility would also be on par, as well as reflexes, since all of Colossus's stats increase to superhuman levels when he transforms. And fighting skills I'd also say are too close to call, what Colossus having trained most of his life (I know he's not as old as Namor) and Namor doing the same.

Anyway, I don't see what Namor brings on land that is something Colossus hasn't experienced before. I say Colossus wins on land 7/10.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Colossus has both the edge in durability AND endurance/stamina. Don't forget that. Stamina can make or break this fight. And I feel that stamina is very much-needed asset here.

Under water, Colossus really doesn't have much maneuverability, but he's still durable as hell. I'll give underwater to Namor 7/10.

Underwater, Namor would easily win 10/10. He's beaten the likes of Hulk and Abomination underwater, and clearly had the edge over Thor.

It would happen like on land, only faster.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
On land, I'm still not convinced that Namor can defeat him the majority of the time. And it's not just because I don't want Namor to win, I truly don't think he can. Yes, he's faster and can fly. But they have basically equal strength, both being mid-Class 100s. Agility would also be on par, as well as reflexes, since all of Colossus's stats increase to superhuman levels when he transforms. And fighting skills I'd also say are too close to call, what Colossus having trained most of his life (I know he's not as old as Namor) and Namor doing the same.

Anyway, I don't see what Namor brings on land that is something Colossus hasn't experienced before. I say Colossus wins on land 7/10. Colossus has trained most of his life...which would be about ten years, because I think he's something like 25 now and he was roughly fifteen when he joined.

Namor has fought things for his ENTIRE life. Which would be roughly eighty-five years, seeing as his training started when he was capable of learning something, and it has been even stated that as a young boy he showed great prowess as an athlete. He's been trained in the use of nerve points, he's stated that judo is primitive, and he goes through warrior tests every year to prove that he is true leader, and in every comic he is in, he is fighting something. When he goes to war, he doesn't sit on the sidelines, he fights himself. He is the Supreme Commander of Undersea Legions, and he is the greatest warrior of Atlantis.

He is much more skilled then Colossus.

And his reflexes are also greater. Feats prove this too.

Their strength is still not equal. One feat with Thing won't prove that.

I'd say that his agility is greater too. To do the stuff he does in water and air (and ground), superior agility is needed.
http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/4173/namorfeat1181eq.gif
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/4188/namorskills228ad.png
http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/2339/namorfeat1243cq.gif

And Colossus durability is good, but when beings like Thor, Hulk and Silver Surfer have felt and cried out in pain when Namor has punched them, it means that Colossus will fall sooner or later. His durability is not THAT much higher then theirs. And physical things have taken him out in past (most recetly by Sebastian Shaw).

And what he brings...

Has Colossus ever defeated an guy who was stronger, smarter, better fighter, more experienced and leagues faster then he is? Ever?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Underwater, Namor would easily win 10/10. He's beaten the likes of Hulk and Abomination underwater, and clearly had the edge over Thor.

It would happen like on land, only faster.

Colossus has trained most of his life...which would be about ten years, because I think he's something like 25 now and he was roughly fifteen when he joined.

Namor has fought things for his ENTIRE life. Which would be roughly eighty-five years, seeing as his training started when he was capable of learning something, and it has been even stated that as a young boy he showed great prowess as an athlete. He's been trained in the use of nerve points, he's stated that judo is primitive, and he goes through warrior tests every year to prove that he is true leader, and in every comic he is in, he is fighting something. When he goes to war, he doesn't sit on the sidelines, he fights himself. He is the Supreme Commander of Undersea Legions, and he is the greatest warrior of Atlantis.

He is much more skilled then Colossus.

And his reflexes are also greater. Feats prove this too.

Their strength is still not equal. One feat with Thing won't prove that.

I'd say that his agility is greater too. To do the stuff he does in water and air (and ground), superior agility is needed.
http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/4173/namorfeat1181eq.gif
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/4188/namorskills228ad.png
http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/2339/namorfeat1243cq.gif

And Colossus durability is good, but when beings like Thor, Hulk and Silver Surfer have felt and cried out in pain when Namor has punched them, it means that Colossus will fall sooner or later. His durability is not THAT much higher then theirs. And physical things have taken him out in past (most recetly by Sebastian Shaw).

And what he brings...

Has Colossus ever defeated an guy who was stronger, smarter, better fighter, more experienced and leagues faster then he is? Ever?

Alright, DC. I concede. You win. Because of the severe lack of Colossus showings (save for the Ultimate Universe) compared to Namor's, I don't have the proper evidence necessary to counter your claims.

Namor wins.

Let's hope that he kicks ass in next Astonishing.

I like his character.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Let's hope that he kicks ass in next Astonishing.

I like his character.

I really like his character a lot, too, he's tied for my most favorite X-man (with Quicksilver, actually). I really hope that he kicks more ass in the future as well. Colossus gets the shaft way too often considering both his character and his powers. But hey, whatcha gonna do?

He was pretty much throwing Shaw around until he stopped to talk to him.

It was kind of stupid that he had forgotten how Shaw's powers work...from New X-Men you see that he is quite good strategist. He should have snapped his arms or something.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
He was pretty much throwing Shaw around until he stopped to talk to him.

It was kind of stupid that he had forgotten how Shaw's powers work...from New X-Men you see that he is quite good strategist. He should have snapped his arms or something.

Yea, I saw the scans in the Respect thread. That really was quite lame of Colossus to let up like that when he really could've just snapped Shaw in two or something. Colossus has really grown up over the years and has become quite the tactical strategist even. Stupid writers. Can't they let Colossus have a good showing every now and then?

One has to try and imagine just how much energy Colossus gave him in order for Shaw to be able to KO him with that one blow. Crazy.

Probably pretty strong, seeing as Shaw bloodied. Rogue with She-Hulk's power absorbed hit him once (Old School She-Hulk) and Shaw did not get any wounds.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Probably pretty strong, seeing as Shaw bloodied. Rogue with She-Hulk's power absorbed hit him once (Old School She-Hulk) and Shaw did not get any wounds.

Ah. Must've been pretty powerful then on Colossus's part. But he's also got a personal grudge, so no wonder he wanted to really lay it onto Shaw.

Indeed.

Wow very nice debating DC.

Originally posted by nimbus006
Wow very nice debating DC.

Yes, it really was. Kudos, DC. I hope one day Colossus is given many, many more showings of his feats so I can bump this thread years from now and debate with you for the win.

We'll see.

Originally posted by nimbus006
Wow very nice debating DC.

Thanks.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Actually...no. Bouycancy would help if HE WAS NOT UNDER tons of pressure, and seeing as he moves the things he lifts, he needs to displace hundreds of tons of water. Bouyancy won't have anything to do with that.



Yippee, let's all use ONE 60's Fantastic Four comic to prove that Thing is stronger. Let's ignore the facts that Namor has knocked out Thing with one move...THREE times. Let's ignore the fact that Namor was portrayed as a weakling compared to his current status then. And let's ignore all the other showings where Namor's strength has been shown to move around Thing like nothing.

I know! I'll do the same!

See! This is Colossus being hurt by Iron Man's repulsor blasts!
http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/7493/colossushurt4pz.jpg

And here is Namor taking full dose of them and he is unhurt! See! See?
!http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/2789/namorfeat1111ip.gif

I hereby now declare that Namor is more durable then Colossus!

Yay, we should all base our debates and cling to one scan...

...or let's not. Why? Because every character has low showings. Colossus has other durability feats that put him above being hurt by Iron Man's repulsor blasts. Namor has other other feats that show that his strenght is above being dragged out from sea by Thing. And feats that put him way above Colossus in strength.

Using one showing as the basis of your entire point is...uhh...a very bad thing.

And handbooks are disregarded here for a reason.

Can I show Namor training in a gym? No. Because unlike Colossus, he has honed his skills from eighty-five years of endless battle alongside training. Can I show you scans of Namor fighting people that Colossus won't have a chance of being equal in fight? Hell yeah. Can I show you scans of Namor stating that he has skills because he has been fighting his entire life? Of course I can. Can I show scans of Namor stating that Judo (Colossus's main fighting style, by the way) is primitive fighting art? You bet your head that I can!

Now, can you show me even half as many scans of Colossus fighting (and being pretty much equal with) opponents that Namor has fought? No, you can't. Because Namor has been fighting for longer then Colossus can even dream of. He's fought gods when Colossus's grandfather was still in his diapers. He's fought interdimensional demons before Colossus's father was even old enough to legally have sex. His experience AND skills absolutely DWARF Colossus's, and he has fights and feats to show that.



Neither are any other things besides durability.

But his speed is nothing compared to Namor's.

Agility is pretty close. Colossus has shown some good agility/leaping feats.



Low showing syndroma is something that you have problems with, have you?



And I say that Namor will defeat him 8/10, because Colossus's only edge is durability, and Namor has advantage in everything else, as proven through feats.



Ah, but bashing someone's head in while they are fighting in his own element is not work for Namor. It's a hobby.

OMG. Snoop=OWNED!!!

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Namor has never overpowered Thing. Only in water has be beaten him in a fight.

Actually he has had some pretty impressive showings on land as well as in the water

Namor has beaten Ben before on land, its just that 95% of the time Ben beats him on land and Namor beats him in water although neither of them are bad in either terrain

What do you guys think the outcome would be between with current Hulk and Current Namor? In water? And on land? I mean, their power levels have changed a lot since their previous fights. What's the most recent fight between those two? I remember group of guys (including ironman, Namor, Samson, Wonderman and Hercules) against mindless Hulk on a rampge.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Actually he has had some pretty impressive showings on land as well as in the water

Namor has beaten Ben before on land, its just that 95% of the time Ben beats him on land and Namor beats him in water although neither of them are bad in either terrain Ben has never beat him on land...Namor has had the edge on land at least three times too, if I remember it correctly...

Originally posted by Jyppe
What do you guys think the outcome would be between with current Hulk and Current Namor? In water? And on land? I mean, their power levels have changed a lot since their previous fights. What's the most recent fight between those two? I remember group of guys (including ironman, Namor, Samson, Wonderman and Hercules) against mindless Hulk on a rampge. Not sure. I'd give Namor possibly 5-7/10 over Hulk. He has that healing factor and adaptability to the water, plus he'd get stronger during the whole fight. Depends how fast Namor will deal with him. He needs to go all out in the beginning and do his gigantic whirlpools and more.

Ok, how about on land?

Hulk would take majority. They have stalemated on land most of the time (once for entire issue), but Hulk would continually grow stronger and more durable, and his healing factor would deal with the damage he takes.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler




Yippee, let's all use ONE 60's Fantastic Four comic to prove that Thing is stronger. Let's ignore the facts that Namor has knocked out Thing with one move...THREE times. Let's ignore the fact that Namor was portrayed as a weakling compared to his current status then. And let's ignore all the other showings where Namor's strength has been shown to move around Thing like nothing. Namor has never beaten Thing on land. He only beats him in the water. Namor only beats anybody in the water. Who has he beaten out of the water? The strength contest I mentioned is the only contest of strenth between Namor and Thing. And Thing won. All of the fights Namor won were due to the water factor.

I know! I'll do the same!
Originally posted by DarkCrawler

See! This is Colossus being hurt by Iron Man's repulsor blasts!
http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/7493/colossushurt4pz.jpg

And here is Namor taking full dose of them and he is unhurt! See! See?
!http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/2789/namorfeat1111ip.gif

I hereby now declare that Namor is more durable then Colossus!

Yay, we should all base our debates and cling to one scan...

...or let's not. Why? Because every character has low showings. Colossus has other durability feats that put him above being hurt by Iron Man's repulsor blasts. Namor has other other feats that show that his strenght is above being dragged out from sea by Thing. And feats that put him way above Colossus in strength.

Using one showing as the basis of your entire point is...uhh...a very bad thing.
Wow that didn't work for me. Why? Cause Colossus was shot in the back when Iron Man shot him. It's a little different when you take a shot head on rather than getting shot unexpetedly.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler

And handbooks are disregarded here for a reason.

Can I show Namor training in a gym? No. Because unlike Colossus, he has honed his skills from eighty-five years of endless battle alongside training. Can I show you scans of Namor fighting people that Colossus won't have a chance of being equal in fight? Hell yeah. Can I show you scans of Namor stating that he has skills because he has been fighting his entire life? Of course I can. Can I show scans of Namor stating that Judo (Colossus's main fighting style, by the way) is primitive fighting art? You bet your head that I can!

Now, can you show me even half as many scans of Colossus fighting (and being pretty much equal with) opponents that Namor has fought? No, you can't. Because Namor has been fighting for longer then Colossus can even dream of. He's fought gods when Colossus's grandfather was still in his diapers. He's fought interdimensional demons before Colossus's father was even old enough to legally have sex. His experience AND skills absolutely DWARF Colossus's, and he has fights and feats to show that. Your not listening. Marvel says Colossus is a better fighter than Namor is. Truth be told it doesn't matter what you think. He trains in the Danger Room. He trains more than just fighting h2h. They have obstacles, tests etc. You make is sound like Namor is thousands of years old or something. He's only 85 years old. Namor has hardly been shown to train. Due to lack of training feats it's obvious that Colossus has better skill. It's written in stone.



Originally posted by DarkCrawler



Low showing syndroma is something that you have problems with, have you? What about that time he fought Hulk with the Avengers with him and he was weakend almost instantly? I'm sure there are plenty of other cases but you don't wanna show them.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler


And I say that Namor will defeat him 8/10, because Colossus's only edge is durability, and Namor has advantage in everything else, as proven through feats.



Tie on land.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Colossus gets the shaft way too often considering both his character and his powers. But hey, whatcha gonna do?

hey man i here ya...and with the advent of the ultimate universe, he's been getting the shaft alot

i personally dont believe that namor spends much time training anyway, simply becuase his arrogance matches his strentgh he generally believes he can best anyone he faces anyway. he just cant bring himslef to think that someone can best him, so i dont see him hitting the gym and going crazy..my thoughts are..when colossus is busy in the danger room, Namor is just having his pick of the royal concubines, and is just pimpin real hard

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Namor has never beaten Thing on land. He only beats him in the water. Namor only beats anybody in the water. Who has he beaten out of the water? The strength contest I mentioned is the only contest of strenth between Namor and Thing. And Thing won. All of the fights Namor won were due to the water factor.

No...they were because of the strength factor. Thing's durability is not lessened at all because of water...and Namor has knocked him out. Three times. With one punch. When Thing punches Namor, he does not knock him out. When Namor punches Thing, he gets knocked out. And one time was even on land.

And not only that, but Namor also has greater strength showings then that.
Originally posted by snoopdogg
I know! I'll do the same!
Wow that didn't work for me. Why? Cause Colossus was shot in the back when Iron Man shot him. It's a little different when you take a shot head on rather than getting shot unexpetedly.

Let's see, one shot in the back...Colossus is knocked down

And Namor takes FULL power shot straight to face...and isn't affected at all. That's not the only shot of him taking

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Your not listening. Marvel says Colossus is a better fighter than Namor is. Truth be told it doesn't matter what you think. He trains in the Danger Room. He trains more than just fighting h2h. They have obstacles, tests etc. You make is sound like Namor is thousands of years old or something. He's only 85 years old. Namor has hardly been shown to train. Due to lack of training feats it's obvious that Colossus has better skill. It's written in stone.

No, Marvel does not say anything. I have stated this many times.

There is no guy named "Marvel". There is just some guy who makes those things. Handbook makers have not researched Namor appearences, so they put him at Class 85 and put his skills to pathetic 3. And that some guy does not go over comics in canon.

Again. Comic showings override Handbook showings. And Namor has better comic showings.

And Namor trains through the real deal. He's had more battles in his life then Colossus will ever have and has had them against people who dwarf Colossus pretty much in everything. Unlike Colossus, who trains in Danger Room, where there isn't real danger. Namor fights in life and death situations in addition to his training, and has done it FAAAR longer then Colossus has. He has more battle feats then Colossus has training AND battle feats combined.

And Namor is the supreme commander of entire army. It is obvious that he is extremely skilled warrior, especially when it has been stated multiple times.

Namor has greater skills, greater experience and greater showings. And I have proof of them. Just because he has not shown to train in somewhere else then a real fighting situation, it does not mean that the training is not equal...it's even better then makeshift training.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
What about that time he fought Hulk with the Avengers with him and he was weakend almost instantly? I'm sure there are plenty of other cases but you don't wanna show them.

That was in desert when heat was sapping his strength.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Tie on land.

Yet you have nothing to prove that Colossus is better or even equal in any other category then durability.

8/10 to Namor.

Originally posted by manjaro
i personally dont believe that namor spends much time training anyway, simply becuase his arrogance matches his strentgh he generally believes he can best anyone he faces anyway. he just cant bring himslef to think that someone can best him, so i dont see him hitting the gym and going crazy..my thoughts are..when colossus is busy in the danger room, Namor is just having his pick of the royal concubines, and is just pimpin real hard

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/5742/namorskills18xu.gif

His training is through real battles.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/5742/namorskills18xu.gif

His training is through real battles. Are you saying Colossus does not have any real battles?

Here are some scans of Colossus' skill. Oh and more importantly this was a teenage version of Colossus in most scans.

Tosses She-Hulk like she isn't a threat.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/uncannyxmenannual07page152yo.jpg

Uses some acrobatic skill to knock Classic Juggernaut on his @ss(For the second time).

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/ColossusandJuggernaut1022.jpg

Speed that belies his massive form? Two huge robots? Shooting lazers?

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/ColossusandMandroids.jpg

Nice dislpay of skill to beat somebody stronger than him. Fancy foot work?

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/ColossusandAntaeus.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/ColossusandAntaeus2.jpg

Colossus' skill is even used as a training excersise in the danger room. He defeated the New X-men with 7 to 1 odds. Colossus beat them with his skill.

http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/7008/colossus11hf.gif
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/7186/colossus27oa.gif
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/4643/colossus33dw.gif

Regarless Colossus is a more skilled fighter than Namor is. Wolverins even calls Colossus his sparring partner. And we all know how Namor handles Wolverine. There isn't enough time in a day to post scans of his training sessions.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Ben has never beat him on land...Namor has had the edge on land at least three times too, if I remember it correctly...

Eh im just thinking off the top of my head

I do know that Ben has beaten him before on land and has had some good showings of fighting Namor in the water although i've never seen him beat him in the water

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Regardless Colossus is a more skilled fighter than Namor is. Wolverine even calls Colossus his sparring partner. And we all know how Namor handles Wolverine. There isn't enough time in a day to post scans of his training sessions.

Namor has a LOT more experience than both Wolverine and Colossus

Namor dosent train because he dosent need too and he's the freakin KING of atlantis he dosent have time to train.

Oh and I would assume that Wolverine calls Colossus his sparring partner because they train together, but thats just me

Originally posted by Grimm22
Namor has a LOT more experience than both Wolverine and Colossus

Namor dosent train because he dosent need too and he's the freakin KING of atlantis he dosent have time to train.

Oh and I would assume that Wolverine calls Colossus his sparring partner because they train together, but thats just me Wolverine is older than Namor is and has alot more experience. Don't even go there man.

You don't think training builds up experience? Colossus has plenty of field experience and training experience. That's why Thing holds his own against the big dogs is cause of his skills. Do you think Namor has more skills than Thing?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Wolverine is older than Namor is and has alot more experience. Don't even go there man.

You don't think training builds up experience? Colossus has plenty of field experience and training experience. That's why Thing holds his own against the big dogs is cause of his skills. Do you think Namor has more skills than Thing?

Im not arguing Colossus's skills and don't bring Ben into the subject

First off Namor has been around nearly as long as Wolverine if not longer

Other than that Namor lives in the bottom of the ocean so in a sense his body never stops training

Originally posted by Grimm22
Im not arguing Colossus's skills and don't bring Ben into the subject

First off Namor has been around nearly as long as Wolverine if not longer

Other than that Namor lives in the bottom of the ocean so in a sense his body never stops training Actually nobody knows for sure how old Wolverine is. He is alot older than Namor is. That's for sure. Wolverine has the field and training experience.

I used Ben as a reference cause he's only about 35 or so in comic time and Namor is 85. Does that mean Namor has more skills than Ben?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Actually nobody knows for sure how old Wolverine is. He is alot older than Namor is. That's for sure. Wolverine has the field and training experience.

I used Ben as a reference cause he's only about 35 or so in comic time and Namor is 85. Does that mean Namor has more skills than Ben?

Pretty much...yeah

Oh and Wolverine was born in the late 1800's so yeah

Namor is well over 100 years old

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Here are some scans of Colossus' skill. Oh and more importantly this was a teenage version of Colossus in most scans.

Tosses She-Hulk like she isn't a threat.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/uncannyxmenannual07page152yo.jpg

She-Hulk, who had just started as Avenger and had no fighting training at all?

Namor's speed and skill have surprised the likes of Daredevil and Spider-Man who are both faster and better fighters the She-Hulk:
http://img259.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorddspidey16pb.gif
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30708285261.gif&s=x11

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Uses some acrobatic skill to knock Classic Juggernaut on his @ss(For the second time).

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/ColossusandJuggernaut1022.jpg

Acrobatics...Namor certainly does not have it...
Oh, wait:
http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/2339/namorfeat1243cq.gif
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/4188/namorskills228ad.png
http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/4173/namorfeat1181eq.gif

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Speed that belies his massive form? Two huge robots? Shooting lazers?

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/ColossusandMandroids.jpg

Crazy demonic versions of Marvel Heroes which were infused with Dormammus power? While having a peaceful speech with Doctor Strange and not even really paying attention to the opponents?
http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namordemon14us.gif
http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namordemon27du.gif
http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namordemon34jd.gif
http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namordemon42qm.gif


Originally posted by snoopdogg
Nice dislpay of skill to beat somebody stronger than him. Fancy foot work?

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/ColossusandAntaeus.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/ColossusandAntaeus2.jpg

Punching someone who is stronger, not giving him time to defend? Not a skill that Namor would not have mastered.
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/5644/namorvsdarkhulk40yd.gif

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Colossus' skill is even used as a training excersise in the danger room. He defeated the New X-men with 7 to 1 odds. Colossus beat them with his skill.

http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/7008/colossus11hf.gif
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/7186/colossus27oa.gif
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/4643/colossus33dw.gif

More like using the strategy. They were undisclipined kids that were hurting themselves more then Colossus. Kind of like the fellows in this picture:
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/5811/namorski7zd.png

And that's Namor using only his instincts.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Regarless Colossus is a more skilled fighter than Namor is. Only that for every feat you show, I have more and better ones...

Namor is more skilled.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Wolverins even calls Colossus his sparring partner. And we all know how Namor handles Wolverine. There isn't enough time in a day to post scans of his training sessions. And Hercules, Thor and Captain America call Namor their sparring partner.

And there is not enough time for me to post all the fights Namor's been through...

Originally posted by Grimm22
Pretty much...yeah

Oh and Wolverine was born in the late 1800's so yeah

Namor is well over 100 years old Gotta correct this.

Namor was born in 1920, making him 86 years old.

Wolverine was born in beginning of 1900's/end of 1800's making him somewhere between 120-100 years old.

Wolverine has more experience then Namor does.

I believe that Colossus is not over 30 though...

Colossus is four years older then Kitty Pride... for what ever thats worth. I'd bet he is still in his mid 20s though.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
She-Hulk, who had just started as Avenger and had no fighting training at all? That's your argument? Colossus was kinda new too then.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler

Namor's speed and skill have surprised the likes of Daredevil and Spider-Man who are both faster and better fighters the She-Hulk:
http://img259.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorddspidey16pb.gif
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=11/30708285261.gif&s=x11 Umm.....Namor is alot stronger and more durable than those two.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler


Acrobatics...Namor certainly does not have it...
Oh, wait:
http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/2339/namorfeat1243cq.gif
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/4188/namorskills228ad.png
http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/4173/namorfeat1181eq.gif Your funny. I never said he didn't




Originally posted by DarkCrawler




Punching someone who is stronger, not giving him time to defend? Not a skill that Namor would not have mastered.
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/5644/namorvsdarkhulk40yd.gif Didn't Namor start to get weak after that? Yea I think so.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler


More like using the strategy. They were undisclipined kids that were hurting themselves more then Colossus. Kind of like the fellows in this picture:
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/5811/namorski7zd.png

And that's Namor using only his instincts. That's not the point. I never hear anybody say that about Colossus when I use his older feats. He still schooled then 7 to 1.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler

Only that for every feat you show, I have more and better ones...

Namor is more skilled. Marvel comics editors don't agree with you however.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler

And Hercules, Thor and Captain America call Namor their sparring partner.

And there is not enough time for me to post all the fights Namor's been through... Wolverine can hang with those guys. Minus Thor but Namor can't either.

how could that be when he was "dead" for 4 or 5 years and kitty went on to achieve advanced degrees in college? late 20's is the least i would out him, but im thinking early 30's

Originally posted by DarkCrawler



More like using the strategy. They were undisclipined kids that were hurting themselves more then Colossus. Kind of like the fellows in this picture:
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/5811/namorski7zd.png

And that's Namor using only his instincts.

Only that for every feat you show, I have more and better ones...

Namor is more skilled.

Is that skill/feat more impressive than ripping open the jaws and smashing the skull a T-Rex?

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/doggydogg2/ColossustashinT-rex.jpg
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/doggydogg2/ColossustashinT-rex2.jpg

Originally posted by snoopdogg
That's your argument? Colossus was kinda new too then.

He had been on X-Men at least for a year...and had more training then She-Hulk.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Umm.....Namor is alot stronger and more durable than those two.

It doesn't have anything to do with him overwhelming them through skill and speed...

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Your funny. I never said he didn't

Why point stuff that doesn't?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Didn't Namor start to get weak after that? Yea I think so.

Seeing as he had been on land for hours...

Originally posted by snoopdogg
That's not the point. I never hear anybody say that about Colossus when I use his older feats. He still schooled then 7 to 1.

But that doesn't prove that he is more skilled then Namor at all...

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Marvel comics editors don't agree with you however.

Writers and creators of the characters do...

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Wolverine can hang with those guys. Minus Thor but Namor can't either. Originally posted by snoopdogg

He can hang with those guys because of his healing factor...not through his skills.

Now I'm off to bed...it's 4 AM here.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
He had been on X-Men at least for a year...and had more training then She-Hulk. She-Hulk isn't know for her fighting ability. They were both newbies just that Colossus had more skills.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler


It doesn't have anything to do with him overwhelming them through skill and speed... What are Cap and Spidey gonna do to Namor? I mean seriously. Not good reference there.







Originally posted by DarkCrawler







Writers and creators of the characters do...

Really? Where does it say in a comic that Namor is more skilled than Colossus.

IMO Namor's level 3 skill is about right. Now before you rip my throat out with bare hands, let me explain. Namor doesn't rely on his skill. He uses more his other advantages. He's fast, strong etc. strong characters usually rely on smacking their opponents, with some added dodging. Skill would matter if the characters hav nearly same stats. If you couldn't do something with just brute strength would you use your skills instead? Yuppers. Besides, I've never seen Namor jump in the air and doing a flip while yelling "Kiiiiyaaa! Hadouken!" And then doing a fancy 360 - kick to someone's head. (I'm going to kill myself if you post a scan of namor doing that )

This is quite same with all "strong" characters. Benjy and Colossus too. Hell even Wolverine relies on slugging than his "superb" skills. Apparently there are 2 versions of Wolverine. The skilled martial artist one who holds back his claws and the berserk one who ignores all his "talents and skills".. Bah Skill is highly overrated in comics



I doubt he has been training all his life. And besides, he has forgotten most of his skills/memories (Though I recall he has recieved all his lost memories..?)

About those scans you guys posted on last page. I don't really know how much skill do you need to defeat people who can barely hurt you.. Hmm, gotta admit that the pic where Namor owns some sea creatures or such is impressive.. or the attackers are dumb as.. Wolverine..? Btw, some of those screenshots didn't open for so I can't reply about their content. I'll try different browser tomorrow.

Originally posted by snoopdogg

Really? Where does it say in a comic that Namor is more skilled than Colossus.

Where does it say that Colossus is more skilled than Namor

Originally posted by Grimm22
Where does it say that Colossus is more skilled than Namor In a Marvel handbook. Do you guys think Marvel just hires these guys out of nowhere? With no comic knowledge? There is more than one guy who writes these bios etc.

That bio is still more than what you guys have as proof.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
In a Marvel handbook. Do you guys think Marvel just hires these guys out of nowhere? With no comic knowledge? There is more than one guy who writes these bios etc.

That bio is still more than what you guys have as proof.

Marvel said that Colossus has more skills than Namor

*gets out boomstick*

It's clobberin time

*cocks gun*

ultimate colossus makes McFish sandwiches out of Namor anytime. period.

Originally posted by DickBlazer
ultimate colossus makes McFish sandwiches out of Namor anytime. period.

Ultimate Colossus = Ultimate Suckage

Originally posted by snoopdogg
She-Hulk isn't know for her fighting ability. They were both newbies just that Colossus had more skills.

She pretty much is now...

And I don't consider someone a newbie when he has been in X-Men for over a year. At least he isn't one compared to She-Hulk.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
What are Cap and Spidey gonna do to Namor? I mean seriously. Not good reference there.

It's a good reference that he used skill to take them out...

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Really? Where does it say in a comic that Namor is more skilled than Colossus.

Seeing as he has greater feats and all.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
In a Marvel handbook. Do you guys think Marvel just hires these guys out of nowhere? With no comic knowledge? There is more than one guy who writes these bios etc. But one guy wrote Namor's bio. And from what I have seen from his bios (Class 85, 60 MPH swimming speed, 40 MPH flight speed ) they don't know jack shit. Sorry, but it is true.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
That bio is still more than what you guys have as proof.

No, it's not. Comics >> Handbooks. Namor has greater feats in comics.

Handbooks are wrong in many things.

Originally posted by Jyppe
IMO Namor's level 3 skill is about right. Now before you rip my throat out with bare hands, let me explain. Namor doesn't rely on his skill. He uses more his other advantages. He's fast, strong etc. strong characters usually rely on smacking their opponents, with some added dodging. Skill would matter if the characters hav nearly same stats. If you couldn't do something with just brute strength would you use your skills instead? Yuppers. Besides, I've never seen Namor jump in the air and doing a flip while yelling "Kiiiiyaaa! Hadouken!" And then doing a fancy 360 - kick to someone's head. (I'm going to kill myself if you post a scan of namor doing that )

Number 3 means "some training". Number 4 means "experienced fighter". How in the name of all that is holy Namor can have only "some training" when he has been trained by the BEST in 10,000 year old warrior nation? And has feats that show him being above "some training". Someone like Wasp who has had sparring sessions with Captain America couple of times would be someone with "some training". Not an 86 year old warrior who has been fighting for his ENTIRE LIFE.

And the day that Colossus has more experience in fighting then Namor is the day that I will burn my authentic Number #1 Donald Duck comics. A day that will not come.

Originally posted by Jyppe
This is quite same with all "strong" characters. Benjy and Colossus too. Hell even Wolverine relies on slugging than his "superb" skills. Apparently there are 2 versions of Wolverine. The skilled martial artist one who holds back his claws and the berserk one who ignores all his "talents and skills".. Bah Skill is highly overrated in comics

Ben has at least army training...

And Wolverine is skilled when he shows it. Rarely, yes, but he is skilled.

Originally posted by Jyppe
I doubt he has been training all his life. And besides, he has forgotten most of his skills/memories (Though I recall he has recieved all his lost memories..?)

Don't know, Logan has showed some awesome martial arts fighting skills. Like in the old Claremont comics.

In my opinion, Wolverine > Captain America when it comes to fighting skills.

Originally posted by Jyppe
About those scans you guys posted on last page. I don't really know how much skill do you need to defeat people who can barely hurt you.. Hmm, gotta admit that the pic where Namor owns some sea creatures or such is impressive.. or the attackers are dumb as.. Wolverine..? Btw, some of those screenshots didn't open for so I can't reply about their content. I'll try different browser tomorrow. All opened with me.

Originally posted by manjaro
hey man i here ya...and with the advent of the ultimate universe, he's been getting the shaft alot

Har har.

I hope that wasn't a negative crack about him being gay in Ultimate. I think it's pretty cool actually. Shows Colossus in an all new light.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Gotta correct this.

Namor was born in 1920, making him 86 years old.

Wolverine was born in beginning of 1900's/end of 1800's making him somewhere between 120-100 years old.

Wolverine has more experience then Namor does.

I believe that Colossus is not over 30 though...

Colossus has gotta be at least 30 or something like that. I mean, even though they age slowly, everyone on the X-Men has still been aging. I dunno, I'd say he's AT LEAST 30.

And even though Wolverine is older, he didn't spend all 120 years of his life training/fighting. Namor pretty much did. I'd definitely say Namor's experience>>>Wolverine's.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Ultimate Colossus = Ultimate Suckage

I dunno what book you're reading, but Ultimate Colossus kicks so much ass.

Colossus fanboysm in this discussion is even over that of GrimmThing for Benji.
Colossus is a low/mid level Class 100 guy, wanna say he can lift about a thousand tons?
Namor on an island, so near water but still on the ground, was fighting demigod Hercules and showing his own, showing why Poseidon himself call him "my son".
Namor has experience, durability, strength, reflexes, agility, fighting skills, all above Colossus.
Colossus mobility is nowhere near that of the Avenging Son.
He can leap high and fast with his legs, but wanna compare super jumps with flight and especially, the flight experience of about a century?
Namor has fought an hulk possessed by an evil sorcerer who was tapping into Hulk power, and still managed to contain him and even knock him off his feet without being owned.
Colossus has toppled Jugg, but still got defeated, same with Gladiator.
Colossus is X-Men's strong guy, like Benji is F4 strong guy, but compared to big guns like Wonder Man, Namor, Hercules, Thor, etc. they are rookies.

Originally posted by K3VIL
Colossus fanboysm in this discussion is even over that of GrimmThing for Benji.
Colossus is a low/mid level Class 100 guy, wanna say he can lift about a thousand tons?
Namor on an island, so near water but still on the ground, was fighting demigod Hercules and showing his own, showing why Poseidon himself call him "my son".
Namor has experience, durability, strength, reflexes, agility, fighting skills, all above Colossus.
Colossus mobility is nowhere near that of the Avenging Son.
He can leap high and fast with his legs, but wanna compare super jumps with flight and especially, the flight experience of about a century?
Namor has fought an hulk possessed by an evil sorcerer who was tapping into Hulk power, and still managed to contain him and even knock him off his feet without being owned.
Colossus has toppled Jugg, but still got defeated, same with Gladiator.
Colossus is X-Men's strong guy, like Benji is F4 strong guy, but compared to big guns like Wonder Man, Namor, Hercules, Thor, etc. they are rookies.

Just two things I want to change there.

Colossus does have the advantage in both durability and endurance/stamina by a mile against Namor. That much is true. Namor still wins, however. He has many more feats showing that he is superior.

And, I really don't think it's fair to consider both Colossus and Thing rookies compared to these guys. Sure, they're older and stronger, but these two have definitely proven themselvse over the years, to these powerhouses and others. Sure, they're not on the same level persay, but to call them rookies seems a bit harsh.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Just two things I want to change there.

Colossus does have the advantage in both durability and endurance/stamina by a mile against Namor. That much is true. Namor still wins, however. He has many more feats showing that he is superior.

And, I really don't think it's fair to consider both Colossus and Thing rookies compared to these guys. Sure, they're older and stronger, but these two have definitely proven themselvse over the years, to these powerhouses and others. Sure, they're not on the same level persay, but to call them rookies seems a bit harsh.
Wrong on calling them rookies, but they are still outclassed.

Originally posted by K3VIL
Wrong on calling them rookies, but they are still outclassed.

Agreed.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
In a Marvel handbook. Do you guys think Marvel just hires these guys out of nowhere? With no comic knowledge? There is more than one guy who writes these bios etc.

That bio is still more than what you guys have as proof.

If Handbooks wer accurate, then sure they would serve as proof.

They arent. You can find errors everywhere.

Originally posted by K3VIL
Colossus fanboysm in this discussion is even over that of GrimmThing for Benji.
Colossus is a low/mid level Class 100 guy, wanna say he can lift about a thousand tons?
Namor on an island, so near water but still on the ground, was fighting demigod Hercules and showing his own, showing why Poseidon himself call him "my son".
Namor has experience, durability, strength, reflexes, agility, fighting skills, all above Colossus.
Colossus mobility is nowhere near that of the Avenging Son.
He can leap high and fast with his legs, but wanna compare super jumps with flight and especially, the flight experience of about a century?
Namor has fought an hulk possessed by an evil sorcerer who was tapping into Hulk power, and still managed to contain him and even knock him off his feet without being owned.
Colossus has toppled Jugg, but still got defeated, same with Gladiator.
Colossus is X-Men's strong guy, like Benji is F4 strong guy, but compared to big guns like Wonder Man, Namor, Hercules, Thor, etc. they are rookies.






Wonder man...











THOR, Herc ok... Namor maybe...

But Wonder man...

Originally posted by olympian
If Handbooks wer accurate, then sure they would serve as proof.

They arent. You can find errors everywhere. It's all opinions. The content in handbooks is based off content in comics. I think the handbooks should be used in debates rather than comics myself peronally. Because the bios are suppose to state the limits of the characters and when a comic goes past that it should be call the infamous PIS that i hear alot about. That way PIS should not be arguable cause if they go over their limits it makes it rather obvious.

Imo Colossus has more skills than Namor does. I still think strength is pretty damm close between these two.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
It's all opinions. The content in handbooks is based off content in comics. I think the handbooks should be used in debates rather than comics myself peronally. Because the bios are suppose to state the limits of the characters and when a comic goes past that it should be call the infamous PIS that i hear alot about. That way PIS should not be arguable cause if they go over their limits it makes it rather obvious.

Imo Colossus has more skills than Namor does. I still think strength is pretty damm close between these two.

Are you actually implying that handbooks>>>>>>>>>>comic books?

Originally posted by Tony Stark



Thats a very similar veiwpoint to the one that you have about EXTREMIS Iron man and his flying out past the moon... Right?

Because It happened in a cannon mag doesn't mean it doesn't count.

That's not what I said. I said it's rediculous what Marvel is doing with IM these days. I never said it didn't count.

I agree. There trying to amp them up to DC levels.

Originally posted by batdude123
Are you actually implying that handbooks>>>>>>>>>>comic books? I'm implying Comics are too inconsistent. Handbooks are written in stone.

Parts are handbooks are good, but even the entries I posted in the respect thread had several bio-history errors not just the stats.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
That's not what I said. I said it's rediculous what Marvel is doing with IM these days. I never said it didn't count. Why is it rediculous? It's just your basic "hero gets uber powerful and corrupted" story. Those are done all the time. We know eventually he'll be de-powered. And it's actually been a decent read so it seems to me you just don't like that Stark's getting a power-up.

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
Why is it rediculous? It's just your basic "hero gets uber powerful and corrupted" story. Those are done all the time. We know eventually he'll be de-powered. And it's actually been a decent read so it seems to me you just don't like that Stark's getting a power-up. Wow! Is is that obvious?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
It's all opinions. The content in handbooks is based off content in comics. I think the handbooks should be used in debates rather than comics myself peronally. Because the bios are suppose to state the limits of the characters and when a comic goes past that it should be call the infamous PIS that i hear alot about. That way PIS should not be arguable cause if they go over their limits it makes it rather obvious.

Imo Colossus has more skills than Namor does. I still think strength is pretty damm close between these two.

I hear what youre saying snoop. Personally, i think its the handbooks that should get tossed out the window. The people who do them obviously dont read enough comics that some of the characters appear in and just mostly probably go off heresay and/or the 60's,70's or 80's. That the good thing i like about DC. They dont limit their characters to scales and handbooks to define them and their abilities. Marvel does that. By giving a character like Namor or Colossus a 6 in strength meaning they cant lift over 100 tons, is limiting them as characters and isnt giving them a chance to develop imo.

One may say "But the handbook has blah blah as a 2 in strength.", but they may show to be in the 3 or 4 class on a consistant basis in the comics. That alone starts up whole new debates. I think we should just go off what is coinsistant with the character instead of a bio or stat.

howcum theree is isnt any post at this time of day, but theres like 20 guys on this forum.

Originally posted by Tony Stark



Wonder man...











THOR, Herc ok... Namor maybe...

But Wonder man...




Wonder Man is a respectable hero, he's showed his own against Thor, and when focused his ionic powers make him a high class 100 guy, his durability is incredible, Hyperion used him to drill through a small planet a he was still alive, he can fly reaching escape velocity and his reflexes made those around him looking very slow if they aren't at least enhanced humans.

Originally posted by K3VIL
Wonder Man is a respectable hero, he's showed his own against Thor, and when focused his ionic powers make him a high class 100 guy, his durability is incredible, Hyperion used him to drill through a small planet a he was still alive, he can fly reaching escape velocity and his reflexes made those around him looking very slow if they aren't at least enhanced humans.
Simon actually died when he was put through the Sun, but it has been stated several times that he's just slightly weaker than Thor.

Originally posted by K3VIL
Wonder Man is a respectable hero, he's showed his own against Thor, and when focused his ionic powers make him a high class 100 guy, his durability is incredible, Hyperion used him to drill through a small planet a he was still alive, he can fly reaching escape velocity and his reflexes made those around him looking very slow if they aren't at least enhanced humans.

Still saying that guys like Colosssus and Thing are rookies compared to Wonder Man is bogus

Hell saying they are rookies compared to anyone is bogus

Thing made the classic wonderman look like a chump.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I'm implying Comics are too inconsistent. Handbooks are written in stone.


Nay. Comics wer created on the first day.

Handbooks came on the seventh. Its obvious who holds more water.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
It's all opinions. The content in handbooks is based off content in comics.

Not in Namor's case it is.

The old Colossus would have been beaten.
The new stronger Colossus stands a good shot at winning though i think against the Prince of the Sea.
However although i think it would be a good fight...i think Namor would win.

Originally posted by Wonder Man
The old Colossus would have been beaten.
The new stronger Colossus stands a good shot at winning though i think against the Prince of the Sea.
However although i think it would be a good fight...i think Namor would win.

Eh? Did Colossus recently (as in the past two weeks) become much stronger? As much as I want Colossus to win...

On land: Namor- 6/10.
Underwater: Namor-9.5/10.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Eh? Did Colossus recently (as in the past two weeks) become much stronger? As much as I want Colossus to win...

On land: Namor- 6/10.
Underwater: Namor-9.5/10.



Please explain to me why namor would be better than a swollen metallic dude?

Originally posted by montrel7
Please explain to me why namor would be better than a swollen metallic dude?

Ah, your very first post I see. Well then, welcome to KMC and such.

I don't have the necessary comic scans to show you the evidence, but as soon as DarkCrawler arrives (and believe me, he will), he will provide you with all the evidence you need.

On land, their strengths are pretty much even, as well as their fighting skills. Colosuss has the huge advantage of both durability and stamina/endurance. However (and this hurts me to say this, since Colossus is one of my very favorite comic characters), that's where it ends for him. Namor is FAR faster, can fly, and has faster reflexes (though Colossus's reflexes and speed are superhuman as well). Namor is just too versatile for this metallic powerhouse.

I did the same thread a while ago (It's on page 2 I guess) Namor is appparently stronger, faster, more skilled and he's able to fly. Colossus is more durable and has endless stamina.

On Land, it's going to be quite close. On water, it wont be that much different, but water revives Namor and he's able to move around easily. Colossus on the other hand is slowed down.

Metalman had pretty accurate out come IMO.

Originally posted by Jyppe
I did the same thread a while ago (It's on page 2 I guess) Namor is appparently stronger, faster, more skilled and he's able to fly. Colossus is more durable and has endless stamina.

On Land, it's going to be quite close. On water, it wont be that much different, but water revives Namor and he's able to move around easily. Colossus on the other hand is slowed down.

Metalman had pretty accurate out come IMO.

Thanks. And it was hard for me to say all that, too, since I really want Colossus to win, hahaha.

Colossus used to be 70 ton strength is all im saying. now hes like 100ton.
that makes this a real brawl.
I actually think Colossus would win today though where he would have lost "yesterday". That goes for many of his fights. I'd like to see him meet Juggs. again and see how that goes now.
Oh yeah...Namor is cooler than the rest of the heros by far in my opinion and better than Thor cause of his horn he blows to summon deamons of the sea.
yeah i guess i'd give it to Colossus after long thought.

namor will take this one, he is stronger and much faster, and theres difference between out the water and under the water because under the water he is stronger, under the water he is class 100 out the water he is 80 i think

Goddamnit, I will NOT start posting all the stuff I have already written in this subject...
Here,
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=383889& amp;highlight=title%3A%28Namor+Colossus%29+forumid
%3A77
And here:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=380247& amp;highlight=title%3A%28Namor+Colossus%29+forumid
%3A77