Superman vs Odin (with stipulations)

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Mr Master
Take away Superman's known weaknesses (Magic/red-R/Kryptonite)
place both of them on the Sun, or in the Sun (you choose)
the Sun can not be destroyed (that way his source is not cut off)
and no bfr, no matter manipulation on Supes person.

vs Odin ...


Who wins?

Grinning Goku
Odin still.

Soljer
I feel there is a considerable difference between placing Superman IN the sun and simply ON it.

Grinning Goku
Originally posted by Grinning Goku
Odin still.

TricksterPriest
Under these conditions, Superman can just sundip, and then wreck Odin.

Dark-Jaxx
Under these conditions, Superman is constantly in the sun, so physically fighting Superman is out of the question though, and realistically...Odin can't do his galaxy busting attacks cause that would destroy the star. I think Odin is too limited in this fight.

OneDumbG0
Superman would eventually undergo extraordinary pain, very likely go insane and more likely than not, simply explode from the power if Odin lasts long enough.

CaptainStoic
Odin did hold off both the Silver Surfer and Thanos, and is capable of destroying entire galaxies. Odin can also manipulate energy for various effects, including projection of concussive force, creation of force shields, levitation, molecular manipulation of matter, matter-energy conversion, illusion-casting, and inter-dimensional teleportation.

Odin ftw.

Harbinger
I'm not sure. Odin definitely has the strength to take on Supes, but giving the Man of Steel a constant sundip (and thus making it so that he can fight without having his energy drained) while also preventing Odin from simply destroying the Sun limits Odin's approach, IMO. Still, I think he can take a slight majority.

Dark-Jaxx
Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Odin did hold off both the Silver Surfer and Thanos, and is capable of destroying entire galaxies. Odin can also manipulate energy for various effects, including projection of concussive force, creation of force shields, levitation, molecular manipulation of matter, matter-energy conversion, illusion-casting, and inter-dimensional teleportation.

Odin ftw. A few of those powers(galaxy busting, matter manipulation) he is not allowed to do.

BaronZemoTIME
Odin

Soljer
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Superman would eventually undergo extraordinary pain, very likely go insane and more likely than not, simply explode from the power if Odin lasts long enough.

Very true in reality, however the spirit of the thread would preclude the possibility of Superman overloading and killing himself.

Or, at least, I believe that was Mr. Master's intention.

h1a8
If I were Superman and I fought Odin I would win 10/10. And this is without a sundip. I would simply blitz him before he can react and ko his class 90 butt. Now adding Superman in the Sun is spite. Do you know that this Superman can overpower thousands of galaxies of power? One punch would vaporize Odin.

iceman24567
So it basically KC Superman vs Odin? I think Clark can get a few wins here.

Soljer
Originally posted by iceman24567
So it basically KC Superman vs Odin? I think Clark can get a few wins here.

Kingdom Come Superman?

Comparing Kingdom Come Superman to one that is in the center of the sun. That's asinine.

Dark-Jaxx
Originally posted by h1a8
If I were Superman and I fought Odin I would win 10/10. And this is without a sundip. I would simply blitz him before he can react and ko his class 90 butt. Now adding Superman in the Sun is spite. Do you know that this Superman can overpower thousands of galaxies of power? One punch would vaporize Odin. You say that like Odin is really slow or something...

illadelph12
Couldn't Odin just wrap Supes in some impregnable magic booby trap and win? Incapacitation is still victory, right? He could also change the frequency of the sun. It wouldn't hurt Supes, but it would prevent him from getting more powerful, and would also be within the bounds of the rules since he wouldn't destroy the sun.

TricksterPriest
Excellent idea. But, he'd have to figure out that the sun was superman's power source and realize changing the frequency would do the job.

Surfer gets away with this shit because of cosmic awareness, but Odin doesn't get that luxury.

As for trapping him, remember the crazy shit Superman did in OWAW? He could probably break most barriers.

illadelph12
Odin does have a form of godly Cosmic Awareness. Didn't he sacrifice his eye for expanded awareness and knowledge, and have senses so acute he can sense actions in different planes of reality? I'm pretty sure he could size Supes up.

As for Supes breaking out of the magic trap, the spell could just be made to tighten it's grip the more Supes struggles.

iceman24567
Originally posted by Soljer
Kingdom Come Superman?

Comparing Kingdom Come Superman to one that is in the center of the sun. That's asinine. Nah i meant when you take away all the weaknesses he's basically Kingdom Come Superman.

h1a8
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
You say that like Odin is really slow or something...

Pretty much.
And he is also not very durable either to physical punishment.

h1a8
Originally posted by illadelph12
Odin does have a form of godly Cosmic Awareness. Didn't he sacrifice his eye for expanded awareness and knowledge, and have senses so acute he can sense actions in different planes of reality? I'm pretty sure he could size Supes up.

As for Supes breaking out of the magic trap, the spell could just be made to tighten it's grip the more Supes struggles.

I argue that he isn't fast enough (reflex wise) and not that he doesn't have an acute sense.

illadelph12
Well, it kind of depends on Odin's first action too. If he takes an offensive posture and leaves himself open Supes can lay into him. If he teleports or raises a shield and takes a more defensive posture he can go from there and try to level the playing field. He might even be able to grant himself Thialfi or Hermod's speed.

h1a8
Originally posted by illadelph12
Well, it kind of depends on Odin's first action too. If he takes an offensive posture and leaves himself open Supes can lay into him. If he teleports or raises a shield and takes a more defensive posture he can go from there and try to level the playing field. He might even be able to grant himself Thialfi or Hermod's speed.

Based off what I've seen of Odin. If Superman blitzes from the starting bell I don't think 1 neuron will get a chance to fire in Odin's brain to even begin to make him think what to do.

Mr Master
Is the infamous speed-blitz (sun-glazed) more effective than this?


http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/470670_OD.jpg http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/470671_OD2.jpg


Surfer & Thanos simultaneous furious attack,
clearly they're exerting crazy power,
Odin isn't even flinching, and KO's SS one-shot style.


Just asking fellas.

vlaaad12345
Its more a power thing,after a brief dip in the middle of the sun superman was overpowering warworlds engines that were powered up by a big bang and resisting braniacs entropy attacks and entropy>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>odin in power,odin would have to find some way to end this very very fast cause superman would amp much to quickly for odin to do anything if it doesnt happen fast.

Starscream M
is this a spite thread? You're placing Superman in the center of the sun?!!!

What have you got against Odin?

Superman in the center of the sun is a living god, he would seriously beat down on Odin so bad all of Asgard feels it.

jeezus, in the sun...

Mr Master
Originally posted by Starscream M

is this a spite thread? You're placing Superman in the center of the sun?!!!

What have you got against Odin?
dontgetit

Seasoned, intelligent debaters are making a case for Odin,
so, I have no idea what you're talking about.
Originally posted by Starscream M

Superman in the center of the sun is a living god
Hmmm ... so the instant Supes enters the Sun he becomes a living god?

Interesting, didn't know that.

I always thought to become Prime he was there for 100's or 1000's of years.

Mr Master
Originally posted by vlaaad12345

Its more a power thing,after a brief dip in the middle of the sun superman was overpowering warworlds engines that were powered up by a big bang and resisting braniacs entropy attacks and entropy>>>>>>>>>>odin in power,odin would have to find some way to end this very very fast cause superman would amp much to quickly for odin to do anything if it doesnt happen fast.
Cool, but vlaaad, to many greater signs (&gtwink disturbs the page,
so please, don't do that. A simple >>> is enough to get the point across.

Or you can say > to infinity > .... or > 100's to millions, or whatever > ...

which is more effective and less disruptive to the page.

vlaaad12345
Fair enoughsmile,but unless odin ends this in litterally a couple seconds hes going to have a problem far bigger than he can deal with on his hands.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Mr Master
dontgetit

Seasoned, intelligent debaters are making a case for Odin,
so, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Hmmm ... so the instant Supes enters the Sun he becomes a living god?

Interesting, didn't know that.

I always thought to become Prime he was there for 100's or 1000's of years. Prime was there for thousands of years, but we don't know when and if he reached his peak in power
for all we know, he could have hit a ceiling in power in the first few years...or not, it's speculation

I was making a hyperbole, but the fact is that given how much a brief sundip amps Superman beyond highherald status, placing him in the center of the sun and allowing him to fight there is simply unfair...he would be completely invulnerable and powerful beyond imagination, he would completely wreck Odin beyond recognition...perhaps sending Odin into another 1000 year slumber

btw, can Odin even survive in the center of the sun?

Starscream M
and you took away Supe's magic and kryptonite weaknesses?!!!! now I know for sure it's a spite thread.

vlaaad12345
Thor can fight on the sun with no problem as can any other herald level char odin would have no problem with it.

Phantom Zone
SPEEDBLITZ FTW!!!!!!!! haermm

Originally posted by Starscream M


btw, can Odin even survive in the center of the sun?


erm Hell yes.

illadelph12
Supes being in the sun doesn't guarantee a victory for him, particularly against a character of Odin's power. Odin doesn't have to rely on, or allow, fisticuffs, and that's really all Supes has on his side: speed and haymakers, both of which can be negated through Odin's use of magic and cosmic power. Odin also has the power to enchant himself and endow himself with speed comparable to Supes just as he enchanted Mjolnir and the Destroyer with all of their abilities. Plus Odin can teleport. If Odin's first move is defensive Supes chances begin to dwindle from that point forward. Odin is a master strategist, it's not in his best interests to charge head on against an unknown foe (though per forum rules, Odin would have all common knowledge of Supes). Also, per forum rules, opponents begin battle .5 kilometers apart. Supes can cover that distance very quickly, but Odin would sense him coming, possibly having enough time to either port away or erect a forcefield, and that's assuming he couldn't simply take the punch.

This fight isn't cut and dry.

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by illadelph12
Supes being in the sun doesn't guarantee a victory for him, particularly against a character of Odin's power. Odin doesn't have to rely on, or allow, fisticuffs, and that's really all Supes has on his side: speed and haymakers, both of which can be negated through Odin's use of magic and cosmic power. Odin also has the power to enchant himself and endow himself with speed comparable to Supes just as he enchanted Mjolnir and the Destroyer with all of their abilities. Plus Odin can teleport. If Odin's first move is defensive Supes chances begin to dwindle from that point forward. Odin is a master strategist, it's not in his best interests to charge head on against an unknown foe (though per forum rules, Odin would have all common knowledge of Supes). Also, per forum rules, opponents begin battle .5 kilometers apart. Supes can cover that distance very quickly, but Odin would sense him coming, possibly having enough time to either port away or erect a forcefield, and that's assuming he couldn't simply take the punch.

This fight isn't cut and dry.

Yeah but even if he senses him coming Supes is too fast for him...............

illadelph12
Odin can speed himself up...

Starscream M
Originally posted by illadelph12
Odin can speed himself up... has odin ever demonstrated onpanel lightspeed reactions or movement (not travel speed)?

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by illadelph12
Odin can speed himself up...

Yeah but Odin has to speed himself up by the time that happens it will be too late.....

Originally posted by Starscream M
has odin ever demonstrated onpanel lightspeed reactions or movement (not travel speed)?

He had no trouble blasting Surfer and he was going h2h with Thanos. Thanos has shown FTL reflexes.

Grinning Goku
I still say Odin wins.

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Grinning Goku
I still say Odin wins.

So do I.

K3VIL
Superman, even Sundipped, has no chance at all.He's just a brute limited to physical attacks, cause heat vision ain't doing shit.OdinForce grants Odin to enhance every single physical attribute to match the enemy he's facing.He caused multiversal level shockwaves just by firing a force blast against one projected by Seth.Superman wins.Yeah, when dogs will fly.

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by K3VIL
Superman, even Sundipped, has no chance at all.He's just a brute limited to physical attacks, cause heat vision ain't doing shit.OdinForce grants Odin to enhance every single physical attribute to match the enemy he's facing.He caused multiversal level shockwaves just by firing a force blast against one projected by Seth.Superman wins.Yeah, when dogs will fly.

That might not be that long before thats possible. Superman for the win in 2030. stick out tongue

carnage52
Originally posted by h1a8
If I were Superman and I fought Odin I would win 10/10. And this is without a sundip. I would simply blitz him before he can react and ko his class 90 butt. Now adding Superman in the Sun is spite. Do you know that this Superman can overpower thousands of galaxies of power? One punch would vaporize Odin. if i was superman there wouldnt be a universe left.

occultdestroyer
If Superman w/o much amps, Odin wins.

But putting Superman in the center of the sun is TOO MUCH.
I guess you would hand him his Sword too.

vlaaad12345
Originally posted by K3VIL
Superman, even Sundipped, has no chance at all.He's just a brute limited to physical attacks, cause heat vision ain't doing shit.OdinForce grants Odin to enhance every single physical attribute to match the enemy he's facing.He caused multiversal level shockwaves just by firing a force blast against one projected by Seth.Superman wins.Yeah, when dogs will fly.
You make it sound like odin is immune to physical or energy damage hes not,sunamped superman overcame entropy and big bang powered up ftl engines after a little trip through the sun odin isnt that strong sorry thats just how it is,odin loses in the middle of the sun its that simple.

illadelph12
I think many of you are operating under the false impression that a difference in lifting capacity and "strength class" equates to lack of, or perhaps a great disparity, in durability between these two combatants, and that physical strength somehow trumps all comers. That's simply not the case. Supes isn't going to "oneshot" Odin, Odin can wade through an onslaught without defending himself and not be phased at all, and it's not like Odin can't either raise a shield while being assaulted physically or simply teleport away and regroup if it were to become necessary. Supes is not going to punch Odin out in the first picosecond of combat, and Odin isn't confined to human reactions and reflexes.

There's a real lack of creativity being displayed here.

vlaaad12345
No odin cant wade through on onslaught and not defend himself against superman in the sun,teleporting away to do...what?he cant destroy the sun,taking away all weaknesses that gave odin an advantage has sealed his fate there is litterally nothing he can do to superman after a awhile and supes will just keep getting stronger and stronger.

quanchi112
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
You make it sound like odin is immune to physical or energy damage hes not,sunamped superman overcame entropy and big bang powered up ftl engines after a little trip through the sun odin isnt that strong sorry thats just how it is,odin loses in the middle of the sun its that simple. It was brought to my attention that it was never stated in the comic that sundipped Superman survived entropy blasts by onedumbgo.

quanchi112
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
No odin cant wade through on onslaught and not defend himself against superman in the sun,teleporting away to do...what?he cant destroy the sun,taking away all weaknesses that gave odin an advantage has sealed his fate there is litterally nothing he can do to superman after a awhile and supes will just keep getting stronger and stronger. Odin has destroyed galaxies in battles before so he could definitely destroy a sun imo.

Starscream M
Originally posted by quanchi112
Odin has destroyed galaxies in battles before so he could definitely destroy a sun imo. do we have an onpanel scan of Odin supposedly 'destroying a galaxy'?

I've never seen him destroying even a planet...so call me skeptical when people say he can destroy something as large as a galaxy based on text rather than onpanel evidence

quanchi112
Originally posted by Starscream M
do we have an onpanel scan of Odin supposedly 'destroying a galaxy'?

I've never seen him destroying even a planet...so call me skeptical when people say he can destroy something as large as a galaxy based on text rather than onpanel evidence Check the respect thread friend. I dont have it scanned myself.

vlaaad12345
Originally posted by quanchi112
Odin has destroyed galaxies in battles before so he could definitely destroy a sun imo.
Of course he could in a regular battle,but the thread maker made the sun indestructible,and it doesnt have to be said that he was getting blasted with entropy because entropy is what braniac was being powered by....its common sense.

quanchi112
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Of course he could in a regular battle,but the thread maker made the sun indestructible,and it doesnt have to be said that he was getting blasted with entropy because entropy is what braniac was being powered by....its common sense. Not every blast was an entropy blast. I dont think it was entropy now. It was never stated. Onedumbgo changed my mind. It was never stated and it makes sense to me.

Supes still lose in this thread hard.

vlaaad12345
Originally posted by quanchi112
Not every blast was an entropy blast. I dont think it was entropy now. It was never stated. Onedumbgo changed my mind. It was never stated and it makes sense to me.

Supes still lose in this thread hard.
Doesnt have to be stated he was powered by imperiex,imperiex is entropy its simple math it doesnt matter what onedumbgo or anyone else says,and how does odin win against a person who will be overpowering him in a couple mins in the sun and who has no weaknesses he can exploit.

Erik-Lensherr
Superman.

quanchi112
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Doesnt have to be stated he was powered by imperiex,imperiex is entropy its simple math it doesnt matter what onedumbgo or anyone else says,and how does odin win against a person who will be overpowering him in a couple mins in the sun and who has no weaknesses he can exploit. It has to be stated imo to be entropy. Sorry but I am not buying it.

Odin has fought much more powerful beings that sundipped Supes. Supes still has a weakness against magic. wink

Silent Master
Did you even bother to read the opening post?

vlaaad12345
Originally posted by quanchi112
It has to be stated imo to be entropy. Sorry but I am not buying it.

Odin has fought much more powerful beings that sundipped Supes. Supes still has a weakness against magic. wink
You really need to read the opening post,odin is not allowed to destroy the sun,superman for this thread has no weakness to k-nite magic or red sun...odin can only go with raw power and sunamped supes from OWAW overcame much more power than odin has,entropy is imperiex braniac was using imperiexes energy braniacs energy=entropy its simple math no matter what you your mother onedumbgo or even a mod wants to say.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Silent Master
Did you even bother to read the opening post? My bad.

quanchi112
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
You really need to read the opening post,odin is not allowed to destroy the sun,superman for this thread has no weakness to k-nite magic or red sun...odin can only go with raw power and sunamped supes from OWAW overcame much more power than odin has,entropy is imperiex braniac was using imperiexes energy braniacs energy=entropy its simple math no matter what you your mother onedumbgo or even a mod wants to say. Ok I have seen Odin throw around more power than this imo. I didnt see anything noted as entropy. Thats your interpretation but it isnt mine as it was never clearly stated. So quit passing your opinion off as factual please.

Supes cant really hurt Odin imo.

vlaaad12345
Originally posted by quanchi112
Ok I have seen Odin throw around more power than this imo. I didnt see anything noted as entropy. Thats your interpretation but it isnt mine as it was never clearly stated. So quit passing your opinion off as factual please.

Supes cant really hurt Odin imo.
Hurt a entropy powered braniac,moved a entropy powered up ftl engines against their will,survived a entropy amped braniacs attacks,odin isnt allowed to bfr matter manip or use any of supermans weaknesses against him.....hes essentialy forced to brawl him in the middle of the sun a place where supes cannot lose against someone of odins level.

quanchi112
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Hurt a entropy powered braniac,moved a entropy powered up ftl engines against their will,survived a entropy amped braniacs attacks,odin isnt allowed to bfr matter manip or use any of supermans weaknesses against him.....hes essentialy forced to brawl him in the middle of the sun a place where supes cannot lose against someone of odins level. Odin can blast pull out gungir,etc. Heck he could even absorb him for the win as he did against Surtur.

Ambient
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
and it doesnt have to be said that he was getting blasted with entropy because entropy is what braniac was being powered by....its common sense.
Not really, being powered by such and such energies does not necessary allow you control/manipulation of that same energies..
Take Superman for ex. Solar powered and i've yet to see him blasting pure solar energy..

As for the topic..
Odin is not limited to just physical brawl, and if thread starter allow the use of magical artifact in position of Odin, he takes it for majority perhaps a 10/10..

Mr Master
Originally posted by Ambient

As for the topic..
Odin is not limited to just physical brawl, and if thread starter allow the use of magical artifact in position of Odin, he takes it for majority perhaps a 10/10..
Odin can use any means necessary,
with the exception of restructuring (matter manipulation) Supes person,
and blowing up the Sun,
but Odin can re-arrange anything other than Supes,
and use any and all abilities at his disposal.

Ambient
So then he could do this..

http://img42.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=68918_Thor_v2_013_16_122_85lo.jpg

Taking out his life force, I dont see Supes having any defense against that.. gotta go..

vlaaad12345
Originally posted by Ambient
Not really, being powered by such and such energies does not necessary allow you control/manipulation of that same energies..
Take Superman for ex. Solar powered and i've yet to see him blasting pure solar energy..

As for the topic..
Odin is not limited to just physical brawl, and if thread starter allow the use of magical artifact in position of Odin, he takes it for majority perhaps a 10/10..
......what do you think heat vision is and lemme know when odin started taking someone lifeforce against their will in a fight against an opponent at his level.

illadelph12
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
No odin cant wade through on onslaught and not defend himself against superman in the sun,teleporting away to do...what?he cant destroy the sun,taking away all weaknesses that gave odin an advantage has sealed his fate there is litterally nothing he can do to superman after a awhile and supes will just keep getting stronger and stronger.

Not exactly...

Odin has vast matter and energy manipulation abilities, as well as his magic. He can't utilize Supes weakness to red sunlight, kryptonite, or magic in this battle, or destroy the sun outright per the stipulation. However, those are not the only options available to him. Per forum rules both characters have the publically known knowledge of eachother:



Supes just so happened to provide an interview to a newspaper detailing how his powers work (the effects of yellow sunlight on his Kryptonian physiology) and what his weakness is. Odin will know that Supes is solar powered just as everyone else does. Odin can alter the frequency of the solar power Supes is absorbing, or easier still, simply place a spell on Supes that blocks him from absorbing more sunlight, then the battle ensues until one or the other's reserves are depleted since Supes will be cut off from his power supply. That method of attack is allowed given the stipulations of the match and also perfectly viable:



Supes is not punching Odin out in the first picoseconds of the fight, and Odin has far too many options at his disposal to lose to Supes, even in this scenario. It's simply a matter of not assuming this battle is a status quo slugfest, which seems to happen far to often amongst members here. There's no reason whatsoever for Odin to allow that to happen, Odin being a master combat strategist. This is not a plot driven comic battle. Per forum rules both combatants use all of their abilities to their fullest extent, meaning that Supes, though initially faster, likely does not have what it takes to put Odin down considering the vast array of abilities Odin can bring to bear, the fact that even though Supes will likely land the first few blows it is not likely that Odin will be incapacitated and unable to teleport himself away to regroup, stop or slow time, or simply raise a shield, then enhance himself via numerous enchantments.

From that point forward it's Odin's match.

If you assume Supes can knock Odin unconscious before he can erect a forcefield, stop time, or simply teleport himself elsewhere (or all 3), more power to you.

I, however, disagree.

Avlon
Originally posted by Mr Master
Take away Superman's known weaknesses (Magic/red-R/Kryptonite)
place both of them on the Sun, or in the Sun (you choose)
the Sun can not be destroyed (that way his source is not cut off)
and no bfr, no matter manipulation on Supes person.

vs Odin ...


Who wins?

Wow dude.

Did you start to hate Odin or something?

stick out tongue

illadelph12
Originally posted by Avlon
Wow dude.

Did you start to hate Odin or something?

stick out tongue

Sup Av. I was wondering when you'd show up. laughing

Avlon
Originally posted by illadelph12
Sup Av. I was wondering when you'd show up. laughing

<---*Special uninvited Guest*

Come on Ill.... we both know even Odin would KNEEL!

illadelph12
If Odin went in head on and tried to trade punches with Clark I have no doubt the son of my jailor would take Odin out.

If Odin uses all of his abilities and fights intelligently things get interesting.

As you know I'm more into strategy than slobberknockers. wink

Avlon
Originally posted by illadelph12
If Odin went in head on and tried to trade punches with Clark I have no doubt the son of my jailor would take Odin out.

If Odin uses all of his abilities and fights intelligently things get interesting.

As you know I'm more into strategy than slobberknockers. wink

I know. It's always good to see a true debater in here. smile

Still removing all of Supermans weaknesses when he's already shown resistance to skyfather level characters as is, and then powering up on top of that is just...overkill.

horrorwolf
Odin wrecks.

Uatu76
I don't really know the extent to which Odin can use matter manipulation, but if he were to manipulate the sun into something else would that count as "destroying" the sun? Is he even capable of m-m on that scale?

Silent Master
I was wondering when someone was going to mention the time stop, seeing as Odin is the one that put the time mainp enchantment on Mjolnir( I think it got burnt out when Thor was fighting Immortus)

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by Silent Master
I was wondering when someone was going to mention the time stop, seeing as Odin is the one that put the time mainp enchantment on Mjolnir( I think it got burnt out when Thor was fighting Immortus) Aside from inferring Odin's ability to manipulate time from Mjolnir's former enchantments, he also personally halted time itself on Earth before transporting the entire human race off-world:
http://img345.imageshack.us/my.php?image=journeyintomystery104070si.jpg

Immortus tricked Thor into sacrificing Mjolnir's temporal energies by having Thor pour them into a fake world, deceiving him into thinking he was saving the world from destruction.

Mr Master
Originally posted by illadelph12

Not exactly...

Odin has vast matter and energy manipulation abilities, as well as his magic. He can't utilize Supes weakness to red sunlight, kryptonite, or magic in this battle, or destroy the sun outright per the stipulation. However, those are not the only options available to him. Per forum rules both characters have the publically known knowledge of eachother:

Supes just so happened to provide an interview to a newspaper detailing how his powers work (the effects of yellow sunlight on his Kryptonian physiology) and what his weakness is. Odin will know that Supes is solar powered just as everyone else does. Odin can alter the frequency of the solar power Supes is absorbing, or easier still, simply place a spell on Supes that blocks him from absorbing more sunlight, then the battle ensues until one or the other's reserves are depleted since Supes will be cut off from his power supply. That method of attack is allowed given the stipulations of the match and also perfectly viable:


Supes is not punching Odin out in the first picoseconds of the fight, and Odin has far too many options at his disposal to lose to Supes, even in this scenario. It's simply a matter of not assuming this battle is a status quo slugfest, which seems to happen far to often amongst members here. There's no reason whatsoever for Odin to allow that to happen, Odin being a master combat strategist. This is not a plot driven comic battle. Per forum rules both combatants use all of their abilities to their fullest extent, meaning that Supes, though initially faster, likely does not have what it takes to put Odin down considering the vast array of abilities Odin can bring to bear, the fact that even though Supes will likely land the first few blows it is not likely that Odin will be incapacitated and unable to teleport himself away to regroup, stop or slow time, or simply raise a shield, then enhance himself via numerous enchantments.

From that point forward it's Odin's match.

If you assume Supes can knock Odin unconscious before he can erect a forcefield, stop time, or simply teleport himself elsewhere (or all 3), more power to you.

I, however, disagree.
Holy! ... This is looking interesting, Odin is obviously not helpless here,
it was never my intention to make him so,
I knew Odin had many tricks up his sleeve,
which is why I slightly limited his options against a specific opponent like Supes.

This is sound reasoning Ills. thumb up

illadelph12
As I've been trying to convey all along, this battle is not as simple as "Speedblitz ftw". Even on the Sun. Odin has far too many cards to play.

OneDumbG0
Is Superman's reliance on solar energy really common or general knowledge allowable to Odin at the outset? Yes, he published scientific papers in the DCU, but have these scientific papers been disseminated enough on Earth-1 that it's become general knowledge? Most of his teammates and most his enemies know... but I don't think that it's general knowledge as much as his weakness to kryptonite is...

illadelph12
I believe Lois published that Supes was a Kryptonian and that his abilities stem from the effects of sunlight on his alien physiology way back before they became romantically involved. On DC Earth Supes is the #1 international celebrity and world icon; I'm pretty sure a wide swath of people in the developed nations of DC Earth read that Daily Planet article or a translation thereof.

Unless, of course, the meaning of the rule is that every inhabitant of a characters homeworld must know the details, in which case no character would have knowledge of an opponent since most comic Earths have indigenous peoples who don't have access to mass media.

h1a8
Originally posted by Mr Master
Is the infamous speed-blitz (sun-glazed) more effective than this?


http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/470670_OD.jpg http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/470671_OD2.jpg


Surfer & Thanos simultaneous furious attack,
clearly they're exerting crazy power,
Odin isn't even flinching, and KO's SS one-shot style.


Just asking fellas.

Energy durability has nothing to do with physical blunt durability. Odin was cut by swords and weapons before.

h1a8
Superman is too fast for Odin here. He kills Odin in one punch (if Supes bloodlusted).

Soljer
Originally posted by h1a8
Superman is too fast for Odin here. He kills Odin in one punch (if Supes bloodlusted).

Was it necessary to double post (within the edit-time, even) to say something so moronic?

Silent Master
Originally posted by h1a8
Energy durability has nothing to do with physical blunt durability. Odin was cut by swords and weapons before.

Weren't most of those weapons either magic based or made by groups with easy access to magic?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Avlon
I know. It's always good to see a true debater in here. smile

Still removing all of Supermans weaknesses when he's already shown resistance to skyfather level characters as is, and then powering up on top of that is just...overkill. Which skyfather level characters has he resisted?

quanchi112
Originally posted by h1a8
Superman is too fast for Odin here. He kills Odin in one punch (if Supes bloodlusted). Odin has never been killed by one punch let alone beaten with one punch.

Avlon
Originally posted by Mr Master
Is the infamous speed-blitz (sun-glazed) more effective than this?


http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/470670_OD.jpg http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/470671_OD2.jpg


Surfer & Thanos simultaneous furious attack,
clearly they're exerting crazy power,
Odin isn't even flinching, and KO's SS one-shot style.


Just asking fellas.

Yes it would be. Superman at those insane sundipped levels would take these 2 blasts as easily as Odin did.

In OWAW, blasts that hurt an already powered up supes and virtually every other hero in DC weren't even felt by Sundipped Supes.

Superman in that state was shown to be above Entropy Aegis Steel...who can dissolve characters like Doomsday with a wave on his hand..and that already is quite a feat.

Dude was taking blasts from a Galactus level Braniac like it was nothing and exerting ridiculous amounts of energy.

Hope that answers the question dude.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by illadelph12
I believe Lois published that Supes was a Kryptonian and that his abilities stem from the effects of sunlight on his alien physiology way back before they became romantically involved. On DC Earth Supes is the #1 international celebrity and world icon; I'm pretty sure a wide swath of people in the developed nations of DC Earth read that Daily Planet article or a translation thereof.

Unless, of course, the meaning of the rule is that every inhabitant of a characters homeworld must know the details, in which case no character would have knowledge of an opponent since most comic Earths have indigenous peoples who don't have access to mass media. Mighty Odin t'would not waste his time upon the trifling mortal minutae known as newspapers! Odin cares not about this Paris Hilton or the entity known as Brangelina! laughing

All kidding aside, everything you wrote makes sense to me... IF, and only if, Lois wrote that Superman's powers came from the sun in a Daily Planet article. Anybody got a definite answer to that?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Avlon
Yes it would be. Superman at those insane sundipped levels would take these 2 blasts as easily as Odin did.

In OWAW, blasts that hurt an already powered up supes and virtually every other hero in DC weren't even felt by Sundipped Supes.

Superman in that state was shown to be above Entropy Aegis Steel...who can dissolve characters like Doomsday with a wave on his hand..and that already is quite a feat.

Dude was taking blasts from a Galactus level Braniac like it was nothing and exerting ridiculous amounts of energy. Sundipped Superman was impressive in this arc but was not invisible and nowhere in that arc did he demonstrate enough power imo to be able to defeat Odin.

Avlon
Originally posted by quanchi112
Sundipped Superman was impressive in this arc but was not invisible and nowhere in that arc did he demonstrate enough power imo to be able to defeat Odin.

Really? Where was Sundipped Superman hurt in that arc?

Once he got to that mode...he was basically shown to be invulnerable. NOTHING was shown to hurt him...and he was barely slowed down at all.

More like Odin hasn't shown the ability to physically beat Supes or even come close to harming him...especially with the stipulations in this thread.

Now bfr? It's possible.

Sundipped Supes was ridiculous.

Ambient
Originally posted by vlaaad12345
......what do you think heat vision is and lemme know when odin started taking someone lifeforce against their will in a fight against an opponent at his level.
I thought HV is just that, heat vision (pure heat). I've never heard of or referred to as a solar beam/blast/flare..

Well, we know for sure that Odin can take someones life force, that is proven fact, what is in question is if Supes can mount a defense against such an attack.. Heck i've never seen Supe defend or stop an energy drain against his being other than a physical counter attack.. I think a lifeforce drain would be far more faster and efficient than say a solar drain.. just my 2 cents..

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by Avlon
Yes it would be. Superman at those insane sundipped levels would take these 2 blasts as easily as Odin did.

In OWAW, blasts that hurt an already powered up supes and virtually every other hero in DC weren't even felt by Sundipped Supes.

Superman in that state was shown to be above Entropy Aegis Steel...who can dissolve characters like Doomsday with a wave on his hand..and that already is quite a feat.

Dude was taking blasts from a Galactus level Braniac like it was nothing and exerting ridiculous amounts of energy.

Hope that answers the question dude. Entropy Aegis Steel could dissolve Doomsday with a wave of his hand? confused

And meh to the rest. Supes was exerting a tremendous amount of energy and ripping apart Braniac drones left and right. But he was shrugging off blasts from Braniac drones only. And only in one panel. And I think we at least agree that those Braniac drones were not blasting him with blasts that were comparable to Imperiex Prime's own personal blast.

Besides, it took a while for Superman to get to those sundipped levels. I doubt Odin is gonna stand there doing nothing waiting for him to approach OWAW power levels. Or maybe his arrogance would...

quanchi112
Originally posted by Avlon
Really? Where was Sundipped Superman hurt in that arc?

Once he got to that mode...he was basically shown to be invulnerable. NOTHING was shown to hurt him...and he was barely slowed down at all.

More like Odin hasn't shown the ability to physically beat Supes or even come close to harming him...especially with the stipulations in this thread.

Now bfr? It's possible.

Sundipped Supes was ridiculous. He was defeating Braniac drones. Really who of note did he outright defeat with his power? He was using a ton of energy. You do realize Odin can freeze him in time. Odin>>>Brainiac drones.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Entropy Aegis Steel could dissolve Doomsday with a wave of his hand? confused

And meh to the rest. Supes was exerting a tremendous amount of energy and ripping apart Braniac drones left and right. But he was shrugging off blasts from Braniac drones only. And only in one panel. And I think we at least agree that those Braniac drones were not blasting him with blasts that were comparable to Imperiex Prime's own personal blast.

Besides, it took a while for Superman to get to those sundipped levels. I doubt Odin is gonna stand there doing nothing waiting for him to approach OWAW power levels. Or maybe his arrogance would... I agree.

Avlon
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Entropy Aegis Steel could dissolve Doomsday with a wave of his hand? confused

Yes.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And meh to the rest. Supes was exerting a tremendous amount of energy and ripping apart Braniac drones left and right. But he was shrugging off blasts from Braniac drones only. And only in one panel. And I think we at least agree that those Braniac drones were not blasting him with blasts that were comparable to Imperiex Prime's own personal blast.

They were constant, cumulative, and powered by Imperiex's same energy. Going by mister M's example ( I was answering his question) the energy put out by Thanos and SS was pretty powerful, and while there is no way to discern the exact levels...it's pretty easy to know that's they are ALL high level blasts.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Besides, it took a while for Superman to get to those sundipped levels. I doubt Odin is gonna stand there doing nothing waiting for him to approach OWAW power levels. Or maybe his arrogance would...

He flew through the heart of the sun. Something like that doesn't take long for him. It's not like Odin has a choice whether to stand there or not. Just being in space powers up Supes, the closer he gets to the sun, the more amped he gets, as time passes (it doesn't take long) he gets even more powerful.

He took out Darkseid by just skirting the sun with him and being pissed. Even passing second is a tougher fight for Odin...who unfortunately isn't normally any kind of a speedster himself.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Avlon
Yes.




They were constant, cumulative, and powered by Imperiex's same energy. Going by mister M's example ( I was answering his question) the energy put out by Thanos and SS was pretty powerful, and while there is no way to discern the exact levels...it's pretty easy to know that's they are ALL high level blasts.



He flew through the heart of the sun. Something like that doesn't take long for him. It's not like Odin has a choice whether to stand there or not. Just being in space powers up Supes, the closer he gets to the sun, the more amped he gets, as time passes (it doesn't take long) he gets even more powerful.

He took out Darkseid by just skirting the sun with him and being pissed. Even passing second is a tougher fight for Odin...who unfortunately isn't normally any kind of a speedster himself. He already had been beating on Darkseid before his sun amp. WW also deflected his omega beams back into Darkseid's face. Superman sunamped himself after Ds had already been severely weakened. Context.

Avlon
Originally posted by quanchi112
He already had been beating on Darkseid before his sun amp. WW also deflected his omega beams back into Darkseid's face. Superman sunamped himself after Ds had already been severely weakened. Context.

He defeated Darkseid in mostly even battles where either one could have won. With his proximity to the sun...he whooped his ass. There is a difference.

As for the beams, where does it say that DS was weakened by them?

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by Avlon
Yes.I would like to know what evidence you have that would make you think Entropy Aegis Steel could dissolve Doomsday with the wave of his hand. As far as I read, the armor was fashioned together from Imperiex drones. Those same Imperiex drones were getting slaughtered by Doomsday.
Originally posted by Avlon
They were constant, cumulative, and powered by Imperiex's same energy. Going by mister M's example ( I was answering his question) the energy put out by Thanos and SS was pretty powerful, and while there is no way to discern the exact levels...it's pretty easy to know that's they are ALL high level blasts.Um. The Braniac drones only shot him at the end... in a single panel. The source of Braniac's amplified power was Imperiex's energy, but once again, you avoid the simple question, "Do you really think the drone blasts were on the same level exhibited by Imperiex Prime's own personal blast that incinerated Doomsday?" I think the obvious answer is no. Imperiex drones were obviously powered by Imperiex himself and they weren't dissolving the JLA left and right. When they exploded, they didn't even kill armored Wonder Woman. And there is also evidence that the blasts were not even pure entropy blasts: 1) the Amazons were fighting the Braniac tendrils bravely; and 2) Imperiex's energy is constantly depicted as blue, whereas the Braniac drone blasts were actually purple. But again, answer the question.
Originally posted by Avlon
He flew through the heart of the sun. Something like that doesn't take long for him. It's not like Odin has a choice whether to stand there or not. Just being in space powers up Supes, the closer he gets to the sun, the more amped he gets, as time passes (it doesn't take long) he gets even more powerful.

He took out Darkseid by just skirting the sun with him and being pissed. Even passing second is a tougher fight for Odin...who unfortunately isn't normally any kind of a speedster himself. He didn't just fly through the sun. He sat inside it for a while in a fetal position to build up the power and took some time mentally adjusting to the power increase. And when you have someone who can stop time... well. 'Nuff said.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Avlon
He defeated Darkseid in mostly even battles where either one could have won. With his proximity to the sun...he whooped his ass. There is a difference.

As for the beams, where does it say that DS was weakened by them? So you need an explanation as to Darkseid's condition as to getting hit smack dab in the face to acknowledge it injured him.

Superman had help in this fight and amped himself so its unfair to credit Superman for a victory in this fight alone as he was aided.

Yes Superman whipped his ass after he was already weakened and I have sen Superman whip his ass without a sunamp before in apokolips now and in tha story he had no aid. Thats a better example imo. smile

Avlon
Originally posted by quanchi112
So you need an explanation as to Darkseid's condition as to getting hit smack dab in the face to acknowledge it injured him.

People get injured in fights. Superman was injured as well. Go figure.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Superman had help in this fight and amped himself so its unfair to credit Superman for a victory in this fight alone as he was aided.

Amped by the sun, and pissed off. That is the point. Plus Supes has been hit with the beams already and been fine.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes Superman whipped his ass after he was already weakened and I have sen Superman whip his ass without a sunamp before in apokolips now and in tha story he had no aid. Thats a better example imo. smile

Where does it say on panel that DS was weakened? I don't want your theory, nor anyones guesstimation. ON PANEL evidence.

What we do know is that the sun powers up Superman to ridiculous levels. In Apokolips now, it was a far more EVEN fight than the ass whooping DS got later.

carver9
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I would like to know what evidence you have that would make you think Entropy Aegis Steel could dissolve Doomsday with the wave of his hand. As far as I read, the armor was fashioned together from Imperiex drones. Those same Imperiex drones were getting slaughtered by Doomsday.
Um. The Braniac drones only shot him at the end... in a single panel. The source of Braniac's amplified power was Imperiex's energy, but once again, you avoid the simple question, "Do you really think the drone blasts were on the same level exhibited by Imperiex Prime's own personal blast that incinerated Doomsday?" I think the obvious answer is no. Imperiex drones were obviously powered by Imperiex himself and they weren't dissolving the JLA left and right. When they exploded, they didn't even kill armored Wonder Woman. And there is also evidence that the blasts were not even pure entropy blasts: 1) the Amazons were fighting the Braniac tendrils bravely; and 2) Imperiex's energy is constantly depicted as blue, whereas the Braniac drone blasts were actually purple. But again, answer the question.
He didn't just fly through the sun. He sat inside it for a while in a fetal position to build up the power and took some time mentally adjusting to the power increase. And when you have someone who can stop time... well. 'Nuff said.

Happy Dance

good post

carver9
Odin win but good fight.

thtadthtshldntb
Well let's see...

Extreme options...

Odin traps the sun in a shield and then shields himself. Then he sits around for 5 billion years while Superman whales on the shields to no effect, at which point, the Sun would have entered the red giant stage, at that point Superman would begin to depower, and eventually Odin would have to keep Superman alive.

Less extreme options.

Odin mindrapes Superman instantly. Odin's telepathic feats dwarf anyone who has ever dominated or attempted to dominate Superman.

Odin hits Superman really, really, really hard, with either an energy blast, or an enhanced punch, blowing every atom in his body apart at once.

Odin rips his lifeforce out.

Odin reverses time, such that Superman continually depowers and gets younger (remember that Thor reversed time on the Stranger), eventually Odin takes the new baby Kal-El to Asgard and raises him with a proper warrior ethic.

h1a8
Originally posted by Silent Master
Weren't most of those weapons either magic based or made by groups with easy access to magic?

possibly, but it is speculation though that he was cut because the weapons were imbued by magic. Odin is hella tough against magic anyways.

h1a8
Originally posted by quanchi112
Sundipped Superman was impressive in this arc but was not invisible and nowhere in that arc did he demonstrate enough power imo to be able to defeat Odin.

So you are saying that the only amount of force that can end Odin is a force that can destroy the universe, no less?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Avlon
People get injured in fights. Superman was injured as well. Go figure.



Amped by the sun, and pissed off. That is the point. Plus Supes has been hit with the beams already and been fine.



Where does it say on panel that DS was weakened? I don't want your theory, nor anyones guesstimation. ON PANEL evidence.

What we do know is that the sun powers up Superman to ridiculous levels. In Apokolips now, it was a far more EVEN fight than the ass whooping DS got later. People do get injured in fights. But here is the difference and please pay attention here. The reason Darkseid was injured was because of WW's interference. Not because of something Superman did in this instance. You are twisting what happened. Heres the scan. Here you see a helpless Superman on the ground and saved by WW's bracelets thus proving he needed help to win this fight and a sunamp.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/004-SupermanBatman013Rembrandt-D-1.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/005-SupermanBatman013Rembrandt-D-1.jpg

Now to me its common sense knowledge that this hurt Ds. If you claim it didnt hurt him then I can question every blow in comics and energy blast unless its stated on panel that something damage someone. Otherwise you can challenge basically anything in a fight. Clearly his omega beams injured him when they blasted him in the face just as a punch hurts when you hit someone in the face with one. smile

Again Supes has avoided the effect as well before. He needed help to avoid two blasts in this particular fight. You cant use another fight to justify what happened in this one. Supes needed help and a sunamp to put Ds down. Bottom line. stick out tongue

Again your logic is flawed and I could basically question every blow to any character that failed to put that character down and say prove it hurt him. Horrible logic friend.

Apokolips now is a great example because Superman beat him on his own and didnt need anyone elses aid or any sunamps.

quanchi112
Originally posted by h1a8
So you are saying that the only amount of force that can end Odin is a force that can destroy the universe, no less? And no I didnt say that but Superman never demonstrated the amount of power to take him out imo.

Oh and as for this fight. Time stop. Even with all these handicaps Odin still wins easily. smile

Batman-Prime
Superman wins this, though not that easy still not an real chalange.

Terryc250
Odin still one shotted Silver Surfer.. Even with these limitations Odin should still win, although with much effort.

MightyEInherjar
This specific Superman is not exactly a lightweight, but I can't believe how underrated Odin is nowadays. Yes, Superman has done well against skyfather level character on occasion in the past, but Odin is THE Skyfather.

I think the scan with both Thanos and Silver Surfer taking free, unguarded shots at Odin should speak volumes. How did he react? He simply stood there and allowed it to happen.

This thread is already full of theoretical ways Odin would defeat Superman, but it seems that the only way to sum it up is: however he decides. It's not in Odin's character to simply kill from the get-go, but IMO when Odin sees that Superman could be a true threat if left completely unchecked, he will end it then and there.

guy222
odin wins

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I would like to know what evidence you have that would make you think Entropy Aegis Steel could dissolve Doomsday with the wave of his hand. As far as I read, the armor was fashioned together from Imperiex drones. Those same Imperiex drones were getting slaughtered by Doomsday.
Um. The Braniac drones only shot him at the end... in a single panel. The source of Braniac's amplified power was Imperiex's energy, but once again, you avoid the simple question, "Do you really think the drone blasts were on the same level exhibited by Imperiex Prime's own personal blast that incinerated Doomsday?" I think the obvious answer is no. Imperiex drones were obviously powered by Imperiex himself and they weren't dissolving the JLA left and right. When they exploded, they didn't even kill armored Wonder Woman. And there is also evidence that the blasts were not even pure entropy blasts: 1) the Amazons were fighting the Braniac tendrils bravely; and 2) Imperiex's energy is constantly depicted as blue, whereas the Braniac drone blasts were actually purple. But again, answer the question.
He didn't just fly through the sun. He sat inside it for a while in a fetal position to build up the power and took some time mentally adjusting to the power increase. And when you have someone who can stop time... well. 'Nuff said.

Yeah that kills it for me Odin FTW.

Avlon
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I would like to know what evidence you have that would make you think Entropy Aegis Steel could dissolve Doomsday with the wave of his hand. As far as I read, the armor was fashioned together from Imperiex drones. Those same Imperiex drones were getting slaughtered by Doomsday.

Apokolips now. That very same armor turned DD to slag with ease...and it's not just simply an armor fashioned together from drones... at least not as DS designed it.

Especially since as per your point, drones were getting slaughtered by DD and yet the AE took him out with such ease.

Superman was shown to be above this in OWAW.

If as certain posters like to do we go by the writers explanation or intent... then Supes was unstoppable. smile

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Um. The Braniac drones only shot him at the end... in a single panel. The source of Braniac's amplified power was Imperiex's energy, but once again, you avoid the simple question, "Do you really think the drone blasts were on the same level exhibited by Imperiex Prime's own personal blast that incinerated Doomsday?" I think the obvious answer is no. Imperiex drones were obviously powered by Imperiex himself and they weren't dissolving the JLA left and right. When they exploded, they didn't even kill armored Wonder Woman. And there is also evidence that the blasts were not even pure entropy blasts: 1) the Amazons were fighting the Braniac tendrils bravely; and 2) Imperiex's energy is constantly depicted as blue, whereas the Braniac drone blasts were actually purple. But again, answer the question.

Read my last response again. How can you quantify the strength of the energy used by Surfers and Thanos blasts vs Odin? The double standards employed in this place are ridiculous.

All the blasts come from powerful sources. Were the drones as powerful as a single imperiex blast? No...but the fact that they were constant and cummulative and Supes wasn't defending against them is just as good.

As for Braniacs use with the imperiex energy. He was shown as taking over the universe with it had Superman not stopped him. Before his sundip, Braniacs tendrils cut Supes with little effort.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
He didn't just fly through the sun. He sat inside it for a while in a fetal position to build up the power and took some time mentally adjusting to the power increase. And when you have someone who can stop time... well. 'Nuff said.

He flew through the heart of the sun. In this fight, he will be on or in the sun while battling...

As for time stop...how often has Odin used it? Superman has probably used T-vo more often (which would negate it anyway.)

Avlon
Originally posted by quanchi112
People do get injured in fights. But here is the difference and please pay attention here. The reason Darkseid was injured was because of WW's interference. Not because of something Superman did in this instance. You are twisting what happened. Heres the scan. Here you see a helpless Superman on the ground and saved by WW's bracelets thus proving he needed help to win this fight and a sunamp.

I've read the book. DS was annoyed and then Supes and DS continued to fight. Sunamped and pissed, Supes started beating on DS even cracking his skin and them moving so fast he creates a boomtube.

it's not like Superman started the fight in top form either considering DS was hiding behind a door.. and what superman had been through earlier...

Originally posted by quanchi112
Now to me its common sense knowledge that this hurt Ds. If you claim it didnt hurt him then I can question every blow in comics and energy blast unless its stated on panel that something damage someone. Otherwise you can challenge basically anything in a fight. Clearly his omega beams injured him when they blasted him in the face just as a punch hurts when you hit someone in the face with one. smile

People question things all the time. I don't want your idea of "common sense" I want an on panel statement that DS was weakened as I asked for earlier. Please read things before you post. Your opinion is not what I asked for.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Again Supes has avoided the effect as well before. He needed help to avoid two blasts in this particular fight. You cant use another fight to justify what happened in this one. Supes needed help and a sunamp to put Ds down. Bottom line. stick out tongue

There are times he avoided it, and times he's taken it and kept on fighting. Adding a sunamp makes things easier for him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Again your logic is flawed and I could basically question every blow to any character that failed to put that character down and say prove it hurt him. Horrible logic friend.

This is just ironic coming from you. The king of illogical posts on KMC. Take another veiled crack at me and I'll report you faster than you can finish reading this sentence.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Apokolips now is a great example because Superman beat him on his own and didnt need anyone elses aid or any sunamps.

Agreed. He had a lot more trouble in Apokolips now since there was no sunamp though....which goes right back to where we started...

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Avlon


Read my last response again. How can you quantify the strength of the energy used by Surfers and Thanos blasts vs Odin? The double standards employed in this place are ridiculous.

My God you have got to be one of the biggest hypocrites on this forum. Hank Henshaw was revived on a panel by a manhunter and somehow you managed not see it that way (Yes im still going on about it). You also have a habit of reading too much into feats.

You are basically a terrible debator and you need to get a grip.

Erik-Lensherr
crylaugh

Alfheim calling Avlon a terrible debator.

ultimatethor
Odin 4 d win. Evn with th restriction, he still has way too many options to take supes out while all supes can do is ko him with punches. Odin timemanipulating, changing the sun into something else,using mental attacks,casting speels to incapacitate supes should get him the win

Allankles
All this time manipulation stuff, I'm starting to wonder if people are honest here. What's to stop giving Superman his ridiculous torquasm vo? As Odin ever actually used time manip in a fight?

Avlon
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
My God you have got to be one of the biggest hypocrites on this forum. Hank Henshaw was revived on a panel by a manhunter and somehow you managed not see it that way (Yes im still going on about it). You also have a habit of reading too much into feats.

You are basically a terrible debator and you need to get a grip.

LOL @ the irony of this.

You need a kleenex to wipe away your tears?

I suggest you keep your ridiculous trolling to a minimum.

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Avlon
LOL @ the irony of this.

You need a kleenex to wipe away your tears?

I suggest you keep your ridiculous trolling to a minimum.

Ermm in not upset im just being frank, but that Battlehammer is really irritating me. erm

Mindset
Originally posted by Avlon
moving so fast he creates a boomtube.


What?

Juntai
Originally posted by Mindset
What? It's pretty ambiguous, however, but it's been mentioned before, so I'll sum up what the posters are getting at when they say that....

Superman was never shown with a motherbox in that story, however Batman was mentioned as having one at one point, and pretty obviously Barda did too. The scene of Superman fighting Darkseid was after an incalculable but seemingly good amount of time had passed after returning to Earth, Barda had already left the party, then they take off and hang out in the Fortress and he gives Supergirl a new costume, , and then takes her to the Kent Farm.

But Superman grabbed Darkseid and flew to the sun, defeated him, and flew off into space with Darkseid and then a noticable BOOM, and they were at the Source Wall.

Superman was never depicted in the story with a motherbox, and certainly why would he have one days later?

Mindset
writer mistake?

You're talking about Superman putting DS in the Source Wall, right?

I've never heard of someone flying fast enough to cause boomtubes, has it ever happened any other time?

K3VIL
We all forgot the main point.A thread made with stipulation knowing that otherwise Superman would get the crap beaten outta his kryptonian ribs.Going by stipulations any character with power level under another one can pull out a decent fight or "perhaps" a victory.
Why don't we depower Supes speed and reflexes to peak human/slightly superhuman, strength to Class 30, subsonic flight speed, and enhanced human durability and gave Wolverine kryptonite Claws and subsonic superspeed.I mean come on....

Mindset
Originally posted by Mr Master
Take away Superman's known weaknesses (Magic/red-R/Kryptonite)
place both of them on the Sun, or in the Sun (you choose)
the Sun can not be destroyed (that way his source is not cut off)
and no bfr, no matter manipulation on Supes person.

vs Odin ...


Who wins?

I choose to place Supes in a red giant, he wont lose strength as per the rules, but he wont gain any. smile

kevdude
Superman never created a boomtube, not even in OWAW was he powerful enough to create a boomtube and fly to the Fourth World without a motherbox and he had one on Darkseid after he slammed it on his arm, thats how Superman was able to do what he did to DS...

When did fg and quan get banned?

Juntai
Originally posted by Mindset
writer mistake? Could be, but as I said, not only was he never depicted getting a motherbox or using one in the story, but the event happened at good amount of time, from at least a day, to several days after their trip to Apokalips, why would he still be carrying it?

Some think because of this he 'flew' and sort of teleported, others think he actually had a motherbox. Though besides the idea of motherbox usually being needed to make Boom Tubes, it the latter can't be proven on panel for reasons above.
Yep.

Not to my knowledge.

Juntai
Originally posted by kevdude
Superman never created a boomtube, not even in OWAW was he powerful enough to create a boomtube and fly to the Fourth World without a motherbox and he had one on Darkseid after he slammed it on his arm, thats how Superman was able to do what he did to DS...

When did fg and quan get banned? First off, the panel of him doing whatever to Darkseid, both characters are completely blacked out, you can't see for better or worse what he did there... and if he attached it to Darkseid for the feat .. . how did he Boomtube back several panels later?


He just happened to be carrying 2 of them to see his mom, days after the trip to Apokalips?


And Quan needed banned a long time ago.

kevdude
It probably reattached itself to Superman after DS was put on the wall, after all it is alive and in the story they do have a motherbox, you can clearly see Motherbox bubbles working on DS, although they usually are depicted as being afraid of Darkseid and this Motherbox was not which is a very rare and extreme, writers really stretched that out pretty far. Gotta agree about Quan he was warned enough.

Juntai
Originally posted by kevdude
It probably reattached itself to Superman after DS was put on the wall, after all it is alive and in the story they do have a motherbox, you can clearly see Motherbox bubbles working on DS, although they usually are depicted as being afraid of Darkseid and this Motherbox was not which is a very rare and extreme, writers really stretched that out pretty far. Gotta agree about Quan he was warned enough. Loeb really sucked up that part of the story, but as I said when I first started describing it, it's really ambiguous, nothing in that whole section of the story is really all that clear. It's too many maybe's and could haves.


Batman and Barda were the ones shown with motherboxes on panel, Batman borrowing his from Barda obviously.
After returning to Earth, not only has at the very -least- a day passed, but the person who the motherboxes belonged to left the story.
Why would Superman not only be carrying a motherbox on a trip to his moms, but how does he BOOM back after possibly attaching one to Darkseid, and never retrieving it?

Too much left unanswered.

kevdude
Nah Loeb did alright, Superman, Batman, WW and Barda actually set Darkseid up for that to happen and told Supergirl to fly around the Earth KNOWING Darkseid on Apokolips would be watching Supergirl and would get his ego hurt and would come to Earth himself to do something, they didn't know what he would do but they counted on him doing something so they was prepared. Remember in Superman/Batman 42 Superman talks about putting DS back on the Wall and DS leaves before being manipulated by them again and leaving them to die or get stuck on the wall themselves. After that we see DS hatching a plan of revenge on all of them, say FC? big grin

Badabing
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
My God you have got to be one of the biggest hypocrites on this forum. Hank Henshaw was revived on a panel by a manhunter and somehow you managed not see it that way (Yes im still going on about it). You also have a habit of reading too much into feats.

You are basically a terrible debator and you need to get a grip. Warned for bashing.

Soljer
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
crylaugh

Alfheim calling Avlon a terrible debator.

cosigned.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by Avlon
Apokolips now. That very same armor turned DD to slag with ease...and it's not just simply an armor fashioned together from drones... at least not as DS designed it.

Especially since as per your point, drones were getting slaughtered by DD and yet the AE took him out with such ease.

Superman was shown to be above this in OWAW.

If as certain posters like to do we go by the writers explanation or intent... then Supes was unstoppable. smileWhich version of Doomsday was this? Where did this version of Doomsday originate from?
Originally posted by Avlon
Read my last response again. How can you quantify the strength of the energy used by Surfers and Thanos blasts vs Odin? The double standards employed in this place are ridiculous.

All the blasts come from powerful sources. Were the drones as powerful as a single imperiex blast? No...but the fact that they were constant and cummulative and Supes wasn't defending against them is just as good.

As for Braniacs use with the imperiex energy. He was shown as taking over the universe with it had Superman not stopped him. Before his sundip, Braniacs tendrils cut Supes with little effort.I never quantified the blasts that Surfer and Thanos were giving Odin. I don't know how powerful they were relatively. At least you finally answered the question. Braniac drones blasting <<<<< Imperiex Prime blasting. And fyi, they were not constant and cumulative. They shot him in one panel. And as Superman was surging ahead pushing Warworld, the Braniac drones were being destroyed in the backlash. Merely a few panels later, there was only one Braniac drone visible pleading with Superman not to end his plans. The same mechanical Braniac tendrils were being ripped apart by Captain Atom and Captain Marvel AFTER Braniac absorbed Imperiex Prime and BEFORE Superman flew into the sun. So destroying the mechanical tendrils isn't that impressive a feat. If Superman tore through the blue energy tendrils that the Amazons were fighting, I'd count that as impressive.
Originally posted by Avlon
He flew through the heart of the sun. In this fight, he will be on or in the sun while battling...

As for time stop...how often has Odin used it? Superman has probably used T-vo more often (which would negate it anyway.) Christ. Read 'Our Worlds At War' again. Superman sat inside the sun in a fetal position collecting more power and concentrating on not losing his mind. He did not just fly through it and gain the OWAW power levels instantly. I'm looking at the issue right now. Want me to inundate the thread with scans? I don't have an imageshack account, so it'd be one scan per post and deluge the thread. Just take my word for it, you need to reread it.
Originally posted by Juntai
But Superman grabbed Darkseid and flew to the sun, defeated him, and flew off into space with Darkseid and then a noticable BOOM, and they were at the Source Wall.

Superman was never depicted in the story with a motherbox, and certainly why would he have one days later? This Superman creates a Boomtube myth has already been dispelled: 1) Superman went to Big Barda at the beginning when Kara was kidnapped for her Motherbox so that he could get to Apokolips in the first place. Barda forced him to take her along against his wishes, since it was her Motherbox. If he could create a boomtube on his own, he wouldn't have been forced to ask Barda or bring her along. It's that simple. He needed a Motherbox for a boomtube in prior issues, he needed one again. 2) As for Superman never visibly activating one when he flew Darkseid, that too is easily explainable. Artist never illustrated it. Just like when Superman had knocked out brainwashed-Kara and carried her into a boomtube, the artist never illustrated Superman using a Motherbox then either. But it's obvious he used one since he was plainly walking. 3) It makes absolute sense he would have a Motherbox on him two days later as he expected Darkseid to attack. Superman knew Darkseid would eventually attack Kara. That was part of his plan of parading her around in her Supergirl outfit. He baited him as he states on-panel when he talks to everyone afterwards.

Superman has enough feats on his own. He doesn't need these hyperboles and attenuated exaggerations.

Juntai
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
1) Superman went to Big Barda at the beginning when Kara was kidnapped for her Motherbox so that he could get to Apokolips in the first place. Barda forced him to take her along against his wishes, since it was her Motherbox. If he could create a boomtube on his own, he wouldn't have been forced to ask Barda or bring her along. It's that simple. He needed a Motherbox for a boomtube in prior issues, he needed one again. 2) As for Superman never visibly activating one when he flew Darkseid, that too is easily explainable. Artist never illustrated it. Just like when Superman had knocked out brainwashed-Kara and carried her into a boomtube, the artist never illustrated Superman using a Motherbox then either. But it's obvious he used one since he was plainly walking. 3) It makes absolute sense he would have a Motherbox on him two days later as he expected Darkseid to attack. Superman knew Darkseid would eventually attack Kara. That was part of his plan of parading her around in her Supergirl outfit. He baited him as he states on-panel when he talks to everyone afterwards.

Superman has enough feats on his own. He doesn't need these hyperboles and attenuated exaggerations. Fair enough, good explanation. Still the plot is full of holes, though. But that's because Jeph Loeb sucks, lol.

Juntai
Originally posted by kevdude
Nah Loeb did alright, Superman, Batman, WW and Barda actually set Darkseid up for that to happen and told Supergirl to fly around the Earth KNOWING Darkseid on Apokolips would be watching Supergirl and would get his ego hurt and would come to Earth himself to do something, they didn't know what he would do but they counted on him doing something so they was prepared. Remember in Superman/Batman 42 Superman talks about putting DS back on the Wall and DS leaves before being manipulated by them again and leaving them to die or get stuck on the wall themselves. After that we see DS hatching a plan of revenge on all of them, say FC? big grin rock

kevdude
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Which version of Doomsday was this? Where did this version of Doomsday originate from?
I never quantified the blasts that Surfer and Thanos were giving Odin. I don't know how powerful they were relatively. At least you finally answered the question. Braniac drones blasting <<<<< Imperiex Prime blasting. And fyi, they were not constant and cumulative. They shot him in one panel. And as Superman was surging ahead pushing Warworld, the Braniac drones were being destroyed in the backlash. Merely a few panels later, there was only one Braniac drone visible pleading with Superman not to end his plans. The same mechanical Braniac tendrils were being ripped apart by Captain Atom and Captain Marvel AFTER Braniac absorbed Imperiex Prime and BEFORE Superman flew into the sun. So destroying the mechanical tendrils isn't that impressive a feat. If Superman tore through the blue energy tendrils that the Amazons were fighting, I'd count that as impressive.
Christ. Read 'Our Worlds At War' again. Superman sat inside the sun in a fetal position collecting more power and concentrating on not losing his mind. He did not just fly through it and gain the OWAW power levels instantly. I'm looking at the issue right now. Want me to inundate the thread with scans? I don't have an imageshack account, so it'd be one scan per post and deluge the thread. Just take my word for it, you need to reread it.
This Superman creates a Boomtube myth has already been dispelled: 1) Superman went to Big Barda at the beginning when Kara was kidnapped for her Motherbox so that he could get to Apokolips in the first place. Barda forced him to take her along against his wishes, since it was her Motherbox. If he could create a boomtube on his own, he wouldn't have been forced to ask Barda or bring her along. It's that simple. He needed a Motherbox for a boomtube in prior issues, he needed one again. 2) As for Superman never visibly activating one when he flew Darkseid, that too is easily explainable. Artist never illustrated it. Just like when Superman had knocked out brainwashed-Kara and carried her into a boomtube, the artist never illustrated Superman using a Motherbox then either. But it's obvious he used one since he was plainly walking. 3) It makes absolute sense he would have a Motherbox on him two days later as he expected Darkseid to attack. Superman knew Darkseid would eventually attack Kara. That was part of his plan of parading her around in her Supergirl outfit. He baited him as he states on-panel when he talks to everyone afterwards.

Superman has enough feats on his own. He doesn't need these hyperboles and attenuated exaggerations.

Did you know that before or after I said it? Don't matter though, nice post Onedumb smile btw Alvon knows his stuff and if he don't hes usually pretty good about being open minded enough to actually read what other ppl say and not just keep going on and on about what he wants.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by kevdude
Did you know that before or after I said it? Don't matter though, nice post Onedumb smile I phail for not reading your posts before jumping in. embarrasment

Avlon
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Which version of Doomsday was this? Where did this version of Doomsday originate from?

This DD is between Rex and Gog Wars and it the original. Quite a feat to so easily beat him. Have you read Apokolips now?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I never quantified the blasts that Surfer and Thanos were giving Odin. I don't know how powerful they were relatively. At least you finally answered the question. Braniac drones blasting <<<<< Imperiex Prime blasting. And fyi, they were not constant and cumulative. They shot him in one panel. And as Superman was surging ahead pushing Warworld, the Braniac drones were being destroyed in the backlash. Merely a few panels later, there was only one Braniac drone visible pleading with Superman not to end his plans. The same mechanical Braniac tendrils were being ripped apart by Captain Atom and Captain Marvel AFTER Braniac absorbed Imperiex Prime and BEFORE Superman flew into the sun. So destroying the mechanical tendrils isn't that impressive a feat. If Superman tore through the blue energy tendrils that the Amazons were fighting, I'd count that as impressive.
Christ. Read 'Our Worlds At War' again. Superman sat inside the sun in a fetal position collecting more power and concentrating on not losing his mind. He did not just fly through it and gain the OWAW power levels instantly. I'm looking at the issue right now. Want me to inundate the thread with scans? I don't have an imageshack account, so it'd be one scan per post and deluge the thread. Just take my word for it, you need to reread it.

The same tendrils were not destroyed by anyone after that. Steel mentions that they are powered up a hundredfold after Supes flies through the sun. The same powered up Superman was taking blasts from the very same power that created those and earlier cut through his skin without much effort.

On top of this, Supes trip to the sun was shown, he pauses in there briefly (shown by the thought capsules as he barely spoke sentences) where he flies right back through warworld and starts on Brainiac drones.

If you want to go for scans, that's fine, I have the book in front of me now.

Fighting Odin, he'd be in the sun or on it for a longer period of time powering up than he was in it in OWAW.

As for constant and cumlative, do you think the drones just stopped firing? You still see Braniac drones attacking and purple energy afterwards. It's still the same energy by the way if you've read the book. Braniac himself says it.

You cannot prove anything about SS and Thanos blasts. It's even silly that such detail has to be gone over for essentially the same situation.

Odin's battle against Thanos involved none of the shenanigans that people would like it to and it was pretty much energy blasts with a bit of physical stuff thrown in.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
This Superman creates a Boomtube myth has already been dispelled: 1) Superman went to Big Barda at the beginning when Kara was kidnapped for her Motherbox so that he could get to Apokolips in the first place. Barda forced him to take her along against his wishes, since it was her Motherbox. If he could create a boomtube on his own, he wouldn't have been forced to ask Barda or bring her along. It's that simple. He needed a Motherbox for a boomtube in prior issues, he needed one again. 2) As for Superman never visibly activating one when he flew Darkseid, that too is easily explainable. Artist never illustrated it. Just like when Superman had knocked out brainwashed-Kara and carried her into a boomtube, the artist never illustrated Superman using a Motherbox then either. But it's obvious he used one since he was plainly walking. 3) It makes absolute sense he would have a Motherbox on him two days later as he expected Darkseid to attack. Superman knew Darkseid would eventually attack Kara. That was part of his plan of parading her around in her Supergirl outfit. He baited him as he states on-panel when he talks to everyone afterwards.

This sounds viable. I'll even add to it. A motherbox can activate a boomtube by itself if needed. I'm still concerned about it not being shown. Something like that is usually made crystal clear.

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by Avlon
This DD is between Rex and Gog Wars and it the original. Quite a feat to so easily beat him. Have you read Apokolips now?Have I placed the comics in my hands and read them? No. I hear about 'Apokolips Now' through third-hand accounts. Usually in regards to Superman and Darkseid. I'll have to read it. Of course, you could just post scans and save me time, money and effort. But Doomsday Rex was borne from the skeleton of H/P Doomsday after Imperiex Prime fried him and was regenerated by Lex Luthor and Darkseid with Kryptonian DNA from Superman. He may be borne from the original, but he is not the original completely. To be honest, he appears weaker than H/P Doomsday. And while I hate to lean on the majority as evidence, I believe most people believe Doomsday Rex to be much weaker than H/P Doomsday. Relying on on-panel evidence, he can't adapt to the kryptonite weakness. In my humble opinion, I still believe that H/P Doomsday is much much stronger than Doomsday Rex.

So I am not surprised that Entropy Aegis Steel could kick the crap out of a Doomsday that is between Rex and Gog Wars. I sincerely doubt Entropy Aegis Steel's ability to destroy H/P Doomsday however.
Originally posted by Avlon
The same tendrils were not destroyed by anyone after that. Steel mentions that they are powered up a hundredfold after Supes flies through the sun. The same powered up Superman was taking blasts from the very same power that created those and earlier cut through his skin without much effort.Here is where I believe Captain Atom is destroying a Braniac tendril. And I don't see Superman getting cut up by them. Other people can judge from this scene what's going on. This is AFTER Braniac absorbed Imperiex Prime and BEFORE Superman went for his sun-dip:

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by Avlon
On top of this, Supes trip to the sun was shown, he pauses in there briefly (shown by the thought capsules as he barely spoke sentences) where he flies right back through warworld and starts on Brainiac drones.

If you want to go for scans, that's fine, I have the book in front of me now.

Fighting Odin, he'd be in the sun or on it for a longer period of time powering up than he was in it in OWAW.Pauses briefly? It's six whole pages of Superman flying into and sitting in the sun before he comes back. In that space of time, Lex, Lena and General Zod have a full conversation before she is kidnapped by Braniac. Braniac also chastises Lena in a conversation. Entropy Aegis Steel is bashing against Warworld and lamenting his relative lack of power to end the conflict. Wonder Woman and Darkseid confront each other. What do you mean by briefly? He was in there for minutes at the very least. A few minutes? A dozen minutes? Doesn't matter, your characterization that he flew through the sun makes it sound like he just zipped right through it in a few seconds and that was enough for his OWAW amp. That's not true. He was in the sun for the entirety of the conversations I just referenced above. And here he is in the fetal position I was speaking about:

OneDumbG0
Originally posted by Avlon
As for constant and cumlative, do you think the drones just stopped firing? You still see Braniac drones attacking and purple energy afterwards. It's still the same energy by the way if you've read the book. Braniac himself says it.

You cannot prove anything about SS and Thanos blasts. It's even silly that such detail has to be gone over for essentially the same situation.

Odin's battle against Thanos involved none of the shenanigans that people would like it to and it was pretty much energy blasts with a bit of physical stuff thrown in.There is only a single panel where the Braniac drones are firing blasts at Superman. This is the double-page splash that contains that panel. Only one panel. Not only that, the blasts are purple as opposed to the blue hue that Imperiex's energy is given throughout the entirety of 'Our Worlds At War' AND in the very same comic when Superman talks to his essence. So what exactly are you speaking of in terms of constant and cumulative? Because here is the ONLY panel where Braniac drones are shooting him:

OneDumbG0
And this is the very next page so that no doubt can be left as to whether or not the Braniac drone blasts were cumulative. As can be plainly seen here, in the very next page, there is only one Braniac drone left. That Braniac drone isn't even blasting him anymore. So yes, in direct answer to your question before, "The Braniac drones did stop firing at Superman. They were apparently destroyed in the backlash and this particular one stopped firing on-panel." You characterize Superman's feat as shrugging off constant and cumulative entropic blasts that is just as good a feat as shrugging off an actual Imperiex Prime personal blast:
Originally posted by Avlon
All the blasts come from powerful sources. Were the drones as powerful as a single imperiex blast? No...but the fact that they were constant and cummulative and Supes wasn't defending against them is just as good.I don't agree at all. One single panel of Braniac drones shooting at him? We're not even sure they're entropic blasts since they're purple instead of blue. And in the very next page, there is only one Braniac drone left and he's not even shooting anymore. Constant and cumulative? Hell no. And you equate that to Imperiex Prime's monumental entropic blast that incinerated H/P Doomsday? That's your opinion. Other people can make their own opinions from the scans:

P.S. I don't mean to spam at all... but I don't have an imageshack account and I couldn't find these scans in the respect threads. So please forgive me. I'm limited by the attach image file to one image per post...

Avlon
Hmm, I was about to ding you on posting spam, but if that is the only way you know how to post images....

As for your six pages. Supes flies to the sun, pauses briefly (as in the scan) and runs right back into battle. If you had said he was in the fetal position for 6 pages, that is different. However, that is not the case... that is him going, pausing, and coming back for Brainiac.

The scan that you posted of captain marvel is still BEFORE Steel mentions that Brainiac has powered the conduits a HUNDREDFOLD, so I believe you are mistaken...and it's before Supes Sundips.


http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/4381/actioncomics782pg13vs8.th.jpg
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/7412/actioncomics782pg14qo7.th.jpghttp://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5869/actioncomics782pg15lh7.th.jpghttp://img245.imageshack.us/img245/8245/actioncomics782pg16gq3.th.jpg
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/4331/actioncomics782pg17xz0.th.jpghttp://img510.imageshack.us/img510/2417/actioncomics782pg18bd9.th.jpg
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/5290/actioncomics782pg19uf3.th.jpg


Do you think the drones stopped shooting at Supes? Does the color of the blasts somehow change that it's the same energy (as stated earlier by Brainy in the same comic) blasting Superman hellbent on stopping him from moving warlworld. In the 2nd scan second panel there is still a drone trying to attack him and pretty much seeng how futile it is.

I mean if you really want to keep going on that it was a brief attack...fine. However, my point still stands...he got hit with some powerful blasts just like Odin did without even defending himself. You can't quantify how powerful the blasts are on odins end which is fine, but the 2 feats are very similar.

I'm not going to keep on going about this. It's a ton of work for something so basic. Plus, the super long multiple posts don't keep my attention for long.

Galan007
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
P.S. I don't mean to spam at all... but I don't have an imageshack account and I couldn't find these scans in the respect threads. So please forgive me. I'm limited by the attach image file to one image per post... fyi, you don't need an imageshack account to upload scans, and the like.

cartman.

OneDumbG0
I'm reading through more of 'Our Worlds At War.' I have all the pertinent issues, and guess what? I'm finding even more evidence against Braniac drones utlizing entropic blasts then before. But first, let's counter what arguments you're making...
Originally posted by Avlon
As for your six pages. Supes flies to the sun, pauses briefly (as in the scan) and runs right back into battle. If you had said he was in the fetal position for 6 pages, that is different. However, that is not the case... that is him going, pausing, and coming back for Brainiac.

The scan that you posted of captain marvel is still BEFORE Steel mentions that Brainiac has powered the conduits a HUNDREDFOLD, so I believe you are mistaken...and it's before Supes Sundips.So you agree he paused inside the Sun for the duration of all those conversations? Ok. Good. You agree that he didn't just zip through the sun. That's all I needed to hear. Oh I see what you're saying about a subsequent amp to those mechanical tendrils... But there is still a problem with what you posited. Superman never destroyed any mechanical tendrils after Entropy Aegis Steel noted they were magnified a hundredfold. So your point is moot. Sorry. The panel where Entropy Aegis Steel states that is on the page immediately preceding these followings scans. And nowhere are mechanical tendrils being ripped apart:
Originally posted by Avlon
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/4381/actioncomics782pg13vs8.th.jpg
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/7412/actioncomics782pg14qo7.th.jpghttp://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5869/actioncomics782pg15lh7.th.jpghttp://img245.imageshack.us/img245/8245/actioncomics782pg16gq3.th.jpg
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/4331/actioncomics782pg17xz0.th.jpghttp://img510.imageshack.us/img510/2417/actioncomics782pg18bd9.th.jpg
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/5290/actioncomics782pg19uf3.th.jpg

Do you think the drones stopped shooting at Supes? Does the color of the blasts somehow change that it's the same energy (as stated earlier by Brainy in the same comic) blasting Superman hellbent on stopping him from moving warlworld. In the 2nd scan second panel there is still a drone trying to attack him and pretty much seeng how futile it is.Um. Yes, I do think the drones stopped firing at Superman since the second scan up above shows that only one Braniac drone is left and he isn't even shooting Superman anymore. Do you see any instance where Braniac drones are shooting Superman AFTER the first scan? I don't. I'm pretty sure other people don't either. Braniac NEVER stated that the blasts he was using were entropic blasts. In the second scan, the Braniac drone isn't blasting at all and only trying to plead with Superman. So what we have, on-panel, is Braniac drones blasting at him in one panel. And most of them were missing even.
Originally posted by Avlon
I mean if you really want to keep going on that it was a brief attack...fine. However, my point still stands...he got hit with some powerful blasts just like Odin did without even defending himself. You can't quantify how powerful the blasts are on odins end which is fine, but the 2 feats are very similar.

I'm not going to keep on going about this. It's a ton of work for something so basic. Plus, the super long multiple posts don't keep my attention for long. Now. I don't know how strong those blasts were as compared to the ones Odin was taking. I never, ever, once commented on their strength relative to each other. The only thing I took exception to is the characterization that amped Superman was taking entropic blasts on the level that Imperiex Prime himself used on H/P Doomsday. It appears we both agree now that is not the case. But just in case you don't, and just in case others wish to belabor the point, here's some evidence that Braniac-13 could have been using energy different from entropic energy:

In Adventure sof Superman #595, Braniac-13 blasts Earth and Lex describes it as an "electromagnetic pulse" on-panel. That is different from entropic energy. This is proof that Braniac-13 was utilizing Imperiex Prime's energy and not necessarily every blast that he or Warworld emitted was entropic energy. In Man Of Steel #117, Superman describes Braniac-13's energy tendrils as "hard-light" on-panel. So even the energy tendrils that were being used were not entropic energy. And what were the blasts that Braniac drones were using against sun-dipped Superman? Never described on-panel. AND they were purple instead of blue.

I have no problem assuming they were entropic blasts. Considering that's what was amping Warworld, why not use entropic blasts? But they were nowhere near the scale that Imperiex Prime used on H/P Doomsday. And it's just as arguable that Braniac-13 was utilizing good ole force blasts since the only times his energy blasts/tendrils were actually described, were forms of energy OTHER than entropy.

P.S. Galan007, how do you do that? I don't even know how to make the links I show as images. For some reason, the hypertext doesn't work for me...

Mr Master
Great debate taking place here between yall.

illadelph12
Originally posted by Mr Master
Great debate taking place here between yall.

I was about to say the same thing. This is one of the better debates we've had on the forum in some time. Very impressive on the part of all parties.

Mr Master
Originally posted by illadelph12

I was about to say the same thing.
This is one of the better debates we've had on the forum in some time.
Very impressive on the part of all parties.
thumb up

I've decided to start letting it be known,
when I see something sweet like this,
the posters will know I'm appreciating their efforts,
true debaters should be encouraged more often,
a simple acknowledgement motivates the continuation
of comprehensive discussions such as this.

Sometimes one can put so much energy/time into a dialogue with visual references,
and if only the person one is wrangling with is openly recognizing one's point of view,
one can possibly think no one else is looking/reading or paying attention,
which imo, can lead to a mindset that whispers:
"what's the point of presenting/sharing all this knowledge,
when no one but the person involved in the discourse
is discerning what I'm saying"


For me, it's enough, but that's because I'm simple and I impress myself. laughing out loud


So fellas, some of us are saluting your work, let it be known. smile

Ambient
Yes, definitely good debate going on here..

Left me w/ more question dough in regards to O.W.A.W.

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