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Wolverine vs Batman, Shiva, Elektra, Bronze Tiger, Bullseye, Green Arrow

1 vs 6

* Wolverine has use of his Claws

* Win by knockout.

* Fight Takes place in a dojo.

Scenario I: MA team is unarmed.

Scenario II: MA team gets all standard weapons and Equipment. Wolverine is Bloodlusted.

he should clear it

Scenario 1: He would clear with ease
Scenario 2: Batman and Green Arrow would be the factor there. He could probably clear that as well, but far from easily.

batman takes him down.

It is possible, but not definate. However, considering that Wolverine need to keep an eye on 5 others, Batman would have that advantage.

Scenario I, depends on if the MA's can get ahold of some makeshift weapons. Or if they can pull weapons off the wall of the dojo.

If they can't and are purely going h2h against a clawed, bloodlusted Wolverine, he whips the crap out of em.

Scenario II... I don't see him fairing too well. Though if he's in his berserker rage mode, I can see him squeezing a few... it wouldn't be for the majority.

H2H Batman should be > Logan. Add HF and Claws and it's pretty even. With Shiva and the rest it's just overkill.

Batman would best Wolverine in H2H, but he would never win. Even though Batman is peak human, both his endurance and strength is shamed compared to Logan. Well, his endurance at least. Within time, Logan would win. None of the listed would defeat/KO Wolverine in H2H. besides, Logan has his claws and that will finish all six of easily. He will simply cut them all in half one after the other.

- Wolverine 10/10
- Batman 10/10

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
H2H Batman should be > Logan. Add HF and Claws and it's pretty even. With Shiva and the rest it's just overkill.
was this a real statement? I mean honestly your kidding right?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
was this a real statement? I mean honestly your kidding right? I'm pretty sure he was serious

Originally posted by Starscream M
I'm pretty sure he was serious
wow then he simply and ignorant person with a sad cases of batman love.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
wow then he simply and ignorant person with a sad cases of batman love. yeah, that must be it

Purely hand to hand, Batman would probably last the longest of the listed, but he would be chanceless even then. Against an advesary such as Wolverine, Batman needs his gear. All six would not even be able to KO Wolverine if he let them try.

Originally posted by Starscream M
yeah, that must be it
.........are you honestly trying to tell me you agree with batman being wolverines equal when all he got is his hands and Logan has his HF, skeleton and claws................


that dumb even for you

Originally posted by Battlehammer
.........are you honestly trying to tell me you agree with batman being wolverines equal when all he got is his hands and Logan has his HF, skeleton and claws................


that dumb even for you

I don't think he agreed with him.

Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
I don't think he agreed with him.
no I think he does.

masterbruces is a moron of the highest order.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
.........are you honestly trying to tell me you agree with batman being wolverines equal when all he got is his hands and Logan has his HF, skeleton and claws................


that dumb even for you no, I never said I agreed

but simply because he thinks that doesn't make him some ignorant batman fanboy

Originally posted by Starscream M
no, I never said I agreed

but simply because he thinks that doesn't make him some ignorant batman fanboy

actaully it does...............


it means he ignorant of wolverines abilities and that he severly overrates batman.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
no I think he does.

masterbruces is a moron of the highest order.

reported

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
reported
........I could care less.............

Originally posted by Battlehammer
actaully it does...............


it means he ignorant of wolverines abilities and that he severly overrates batman. you mean the same batman that's taken down grundy, survived an angry superman trying to kill him, hurt darkseid, etc etc?

Originally posted by Starscream M
you mean the same batman that's taken down grundy, survived an angry superman trying to kill him, hurt darkseid, etc etc?
yes one in the same.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
yes one in the same. I think you missed my point

Should we look into what Wolverine has done and compare? We already know that in truth an angry Superman would waste Batman easily. We know this because Superman could hear Batman's heartbeats, is FTL and has super strength. Batman is awesome, but surviving an angry Superman has more to do with luck/PIS than actual skills.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I think you missed my point
No I did not, it just irrelevent

What's up with this sh*t ?

Team completly destroys Wolverine in both scenarios.

lol thats funny.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
H2H Batman should be > Logan. Add HF and Claws and it's pretty even. With Shiva and the rest it's just overkill.

No..

Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
Batman would best Wolverine in H2H, no...

Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
Purely hand to hand, Batman would probably last the longest of the listed, but he would be chanceless even then. Against an advesary such as Wolverine, Batman needs his gear. All six would not even be able to KO Wolverine if he let them try. h2h Elektra's more of a threat to Wolverine than Batman.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
What's up with this sh*t ?

Team completly destroys Wolverine in both scenarios.

The first scenarios totally dependent on what they could get to fight Wolvie. If they're stuck just using h2h against his claws in a berserker rage, he'd mop the floor with em.

Team wins in both scenarios by quite a majority.

Quite a few of those, if not all of those MA artists can keep up with Wolverine and not die for a long time. Factor in that all of them will be here, and Wolverine CAN be pummeled into submission. They all have the reaction times and speed to keep up with a Logan that's distracted by all of them.

Scenario two, they still win, by just as much.

Side note- by Green Arrow, do you mean Ollie, who's not that much of a MA artist, or Connor Hawke, who's much more proficient?

Originally posted by jinzin
The first scenarios totally dependent on what they could get to fight Wolvie. If they're stuck just using h2h against his claws in a berserker rage, he'd mop the floor with em. He's not in a berserker rage for the first fight.

Yeah, 3 of the best h2h fighters in the DC Universe (Batman, Shiva & Bronze Tiger), coupled with 2 of the best assasins in Marvel (Elektra & Bullseye) and Green Arrow who recently underwent extensive Martial Arts training taking down Wolverine when they all attack him at once is hilarious.

Originally posted by Eel O'Brian
He's not in a berserker rage for the first fight. oh, missed that, my bad.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Yeah, 3 of the best h2h fighters in the DC Universe (Batman, Shiva & Bronze Tiger), coupled with 2 of the best assasins in Marvel (Elektra & Bullseye) and Green Arrow who recently underwent extensive Martial Arts training taking down Wolverine when they all attack him at once is hilarious. While the team taking Wolverine down isn't a bad opinion to have I'm not sure you're giving Loges enough credit even still. The guy has tangled with whole teams of superpowered individuals and held his own or won. I mean, he took down Azreal and a clone of himself at the same time while in a weakened state, easily and without taking one hit. It's not a stretch to think he'd take the team in scenario one by any means.

What theses cats would do to a guy who can go ONE-ON-ONE with the FRIGGIN' HULK!?

Wolverine mop the floor with thoses who wouldn't have get the **** out before, slice'n dicing them 10/10.
Hell, with his HF, nobody can even KO him.


In the second scenarios, I give 7/10 to the team, depending of Batman.

All he has to do is let his pointy friends out because even with a nick he could cut somebody deep enough to kill them. Since it's near impossble to actually proof Batman knows over 100 fighting styles and nobody believes he doesn't it would be possible that Wolverine is a master of every fighting style on Earth. The Batkick would result in Batman loosing his legs first from the ankles then at the knees and last at the hip joint. Wolverine is way to durable has away to good healing factor and to good of a fighter to lose is fight.Thats not counting his claws add to the list

Originally posted by golem370
All he has to do is let his pointy friends out because even with a nick he could cut somebody deep enough to kill them. Since it's near impossble to actually proof Batman knows over 100 fighting styles and nobody believes he doesn't it would be possible that Wolverine is a master of every fighting style on Earth. The Batkick would result in Batman loosing his legs first from the ankles then at the knees and last at the hip joint. Wolverine is way to durable has away to good healing factor and to good of a fighter to lose is fight.Thats not counting his claws add to the list

WORD!
Wolverine, at least in the first scenarios, would waste them.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
wow then he simply and ignorant person with a sad cases of batman love.

I thnink it's ignorant to call a person ignorant who just tries to post an friendly reply whithout calling the people ignorant, who let Logan fight this team, even though he thinks that it's more then ignorant to think that wolverine would stand an chance.

Howlett is a beast, I like him, but seriously, this is overkill. He may fight the Hulk because of his abilities but that doesn't mean that street levlers aren't a threat to him.... to think this would be ignorant, anyway, maybe it's better to ignore you posts in the future

Wolverine has claws he wins.

Originally posted by jinzin
no...

Uh, yes. Batman is a better fighter. I did not say he would win though, did I? I just said that Batman would best Logan in H2H. It would not last however and eventually Batman would go down.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I thnink it's ignorant to call a person ignorant who just tries to post an friendly reply whithout calling the people ignorant, who let Logan fight this team, even though he thinks that it's more then ignorant to think that wolverine would stand an chance.

Howlett is a beast, I like him, but seriously, this is overkill. He may fight the Hulk because of his abilities but that doesn't mean that street levlers aren't a threat to him.... to think this would be ignorant, anyway, maybe it's better to ignore you posts in the future

says the person who thinks batman with no items or weapons = wolverine with his healing factor adamatium skeleton and claws...........please just shut up.

Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
Uh, yes. Batman is a better fighter.
No he not.

Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
Uh, yes. Batman is a better fighter. I did not say he would win though, did I? I just said that Batman would best Logan in H2H. It would not last however and eventually Batman would go down.

There's not one punce of proof to suggest that Batman is anywhere NEAR being a better fighter.

Batman relies on his fighting skill more often than Logan, simply because Logan doesn't have to but Batman is not a better fighter than logan by any means.

batman is a better fighter because he has to be, that is simply common sense

batman doesn't have HF and claws and unbreakable skeletons as clutch that logan has

logan fights careless and often like a rabid animal, batman has to fight focused and with his A game all the time

Originally posted by Starscream M
batman is a better fighter because he has to be, that is simply common sense

batman doesn't have HF and claws and unbreakable skeletons as clutch that logan has

logan fights careless and often like a rabid animal, batman has to fight focused and with his A game all the time

No he not a better fighter. Just becuases you need your skills more does not make you better.

No batman has billions of dollars, armo, all sor of items and advances technology to rely on.


Pleases there no evidences that suggest batman is a better fighter. Pleases I love to see you prove batman mor skilled then wolverine.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
No he not a better fighter. Just becuases you need your skills more does not make you better.

No batman has billions of dollars, armo, all sor of items and advances technology to rely on.


Pleases there no evidences that suggest batman is a better fighter. Pleases I love to see you prove batman mor skilled then wolverine. he's held his own against Karate Kid, the most skilled fighter in either DC or Marvel

Originally posted by Battlehammer
says the person who thinks batman with no items or weapons = wolverine with his healing factor adamatium skeleton and claws...........please just shut up.

Shut up is an very good argument in an debate

Originally posted by jinzin
Batman relies on his fighting skill more often than Logan, simply because Logan doesn't have to but Batman is not a better fighter than logan by any means.

Over 100 martial arts mastered, and fought Karate Kid efficiently.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
actaully it does...............


it means he ignorant of wolverines abilities and that he severly overrates batman. and you seem to think adamantium>all

Originally posted by Starscream M
he's held his own against Karate Kid, the most skilled fighter in either DC or Marvel
He held his own vs a karate not thee karate kid.........or did you forgett there are three of them running around?

Logan never fought the karate kid so to assume batman better becauses he was able to hold his own vs a man logan has never fought is faulty debating.

Logan has also held his own vs 3 individuals who are consider the best fighters in marvel. He also stomp on some of the top tiers and has even done better against individuals both he and batman have fought.

Originally posted by carnage52
and you seem to think adamantium>all

No I jsut happen to think your ignorant and foolish

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Shut up is an very good argument in an debate
your not with argueing with, becuases you bring nothing to the table and spout out ignorant crap.

1. Wolverine stomps.

2. very slight edge to Wolverine...maybe 6/10 - due to his HF, adamantium exo, and ability to exchange/withstand most attacks given here.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
your not with argueing with, becuases you bring nothing to the table and spout out ignorant crap.

you are very mature

BTW I could say the same about you, but I'm polite, so I won't

This thread is becoming a problem. Be civil please or I'll have close the thread and ban all of you. crackers






Okay, I won't ban all of you.

Originally posted by Badabing
This thread is becoming a problem. Be civil please or I'll have close the thread and ban all of you. crackers






Okay, I won't ban all of you.

He has insulted Batgod fo Batcave's sake, I demmand a ban for him!! bann





Kidding

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
He has insulted Batgod fo Batcave's sake, I demmand a ban for him!! bann





Kidding I'll have his head on a pike for that outrage!!! durfist

Wolverine

Again :

Scenario 1: Wolverine
Scenario 2: Not Wolverine

Scenerio 2 - Bullseye and Elektra take it - Batman watches "just incase" - the rest go for pizza and bring the car around.

Sai in the eye anyone?

Scene 1, he should take..with no injuries - barefist vs HF is Autolose imo

Errr. How would Wolverine win in the first scenario at all? I doubt even Elektra or Shiva with weapons could take on all those foes barehanded.

The second scenario is just pure spite.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Errr. How would Wolverine win in the first scenario at all? I doubt even Elektra or Shiva with weapons could take on all those foes barehanded.

The second scenario is just pure spite.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
co signed

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Errr. How would Wolverine win in the first scenario at all? I doubt even Elektra or Shiva with weapons could take on all those foes barehanded.

The second scenario is just pure spite.


He wins because - he has Christs HF - claws that dmg steel - Mad uber MA skills, is an uber brawler too - and all he need is one good swipe on each, which isnt difficult considering they are un-armed..i would forsee lots of missing fingers and hands. he wouldnt stomp..but eventually (being the only one not bleeding or bruised) he could pull it... better?

Originally posted by Juk3n
He wins the first because Bare fists against Christs HF attatched to claws that indent steel and mad skills to match is a good bet - he wont stomp..but he'll win in the end.!

I didn't understand a goddamn thing you just said there.

Top martial artists team without IF? ahahaha

MA team for the win anyways

niether elektra or shiva with weapons could come closes to taking wolverine a majority.........................

Shiva is crazy check out some of her feats and you will change your mind...

I know what shiva can do and ive seen her feats and she still stands no chances of beating wolverine one on one for anything closes to a majority.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
I didn't understand a goddamn thing you just said there.

None of the listed hold the means to defeat Wolverine H2H. Wolverine took beating from both Spiderman and Hulk and kept on walking. Any one of those two hold more punch power alone than the entire six listed combined.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I know what shiva can do and ive seen her feats and she still stands no chances of beating wolverine one on one for anything closes to a majority.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
niether elektra or shiva with weapons could come closes to taking wolverine a majority......................... You're supposed to be ignoring me, remember? And you're supposed to not vicariously respond to my posts, remember? If you've changed your mind. That's fine. You're the one who put me on ignore, not the other way around. Either way, I'll let jinzin argue with you about Elektra vs Wolverine.

oops I read it wrong, I thought he faught each of them one-on-one,

1. wolverine

2. team

Originally posted by Starscream M
batman is a better fighter because he has to be, that is simply common sense

No. That's makes absolutely NO sense. Who's the better fighter? The criminal who gets tossed into a no holds barred cage fight overseas, or the professional who trains to fight as a dayjob learning from the best?

Necessity doesn't dictate skill level. Guys like Moonknight, Night Thrasher, and Flag Jack all "have to be" better fighters than Logan because they can't afford to get hit severly, but that doesn't automatically mean that they are. There's no common or UNcommon sense behind that statement.

Originally posted by Starscream M
batman doesn't have HF and claws and unbreakable skeletons as clutch that logan has
So what? Batman DOES HAVE a semi bullet proof, electro proof, gadget ridden, fire proof, suit, wheels with missiles, detailed info on most opponents and their weaknesses, gas, etc etc and etc...
Batman may not have a healing factor but he's not exactly running into fights head on in yellow spandex either.

Originally posted by Starscream M
logan fights careless and often like a rabid animal, batman has to fight focused and with his A game all the time Sometimes, sure, because he can afford to. Does he fight like that when he can't? Uh, NO.

Originally posted by jinzin


Remember that in Scenario 1, Batman will go in with hands only, which is why I consider Scenario 1 a loss. He will not be allowed his gear.

It is pretty much 100% agreed that Wolverine won't make it in Scenario 2

Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
Over 100 martial arts mastered, and fought Karate Kid efficiently. 100 martial arts means nothing, according to Marvel, Wolverine knows EVERY martial art that's documented in the MU and some that aren't. He's a level seven.

And fighting KK efficiently? So what?
One fight he was fighting a KK who was disoriented, AMNESIC and STILL nailed Batman 3 times before Batman landed one solid offensive. By the end of that fight Batman was bloodied, his suit was tore the f*** up, he had a hernia and lost his utility belt. KK wasn't even trying and all he had was one black eye.

The other fight went a little better, but relaunch KK isn't even that impressive to begin with, he's definitely no pre crisis.

So he can see weaknesses at times like Karnak, so what? Wolverine still has similar showings disarming Azreal without effort, disarming Ogun without effort, briefly stalemating Gamora, and he absolutely manhandled Shang Chi, who's already esimated by many to be superior to Bats in sheer skill.

Shit, Shang's stated to be a master of every martial art, and beat a handful of men who knew every martial art at the same time and he still got owned by Logan.

Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
Remember that in Scenario 1, Batman will go in with hands only, which is why I consider Scenario 1 a loss. He will not be allowed his gear.

It is pretty much 100% agreed that Wolverine won't make it in Scenario 2

That argument wasn't even directed at scenario 1 or 2.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Errr. How would Wolverine win in the first scenario at all? erm by slicing, dicing, and stabbing people... ?

Originally posted by jinzin
That argument wasn't even directed at scenario 1 or 2.

I know.

Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
I know.

Originally posted by jinzin
100 martial arts means nothing, according to Marvel, Wolverine knows EVERY martial art that's documented in the MU and some that aren't. He's a level seven.

And fighting KK efficiently? So what?
One fight he was fighting a KK who was disoriented, AMNESIC and STILL nailed Batman 3 times before Batman landed one solid offensive. By the end of that fight Batman was bloodied, his suit was tore the f*** up, he had a hernia and lost his utility belt. KK wasn't even trying and all he had was one black eye.

The other fight went a little better, but relaunch KK isn't even that impressive to begin with, he's definitely no pre crisis.

So he can see weaknesses at times like Karnak, so what? Wolverine still has similar showings disarming Azreal without effort, disarming Ogun without effort, briefly stalemating Gamora, and he absolutely manhandled Shang Chi, who's already esimated by many to be superior to Bats in sheer skill.

Shit, Shang's stated to be a master of every martial art, and beat a handful of men who knew every martial art at the same time and he still got owned by Logan. Wait wait. You do know that this isn't a gauntlet right? This is a gang-bang, for all intents and purposes? Meaning, all those combatants attack Wolverine at the same time... So, if you would indulge me, please tell me if Wolverine wins scenario 1 again. And then let me know if you switched Elektra and Wolverine in scenario 1, would you have Elektra winning against all those opponents?

Past that, are you using Wolverine's Marvel Database level as proof that Wolverine has mastered all known martial arts? Because, that's not proof even according to the Marvel Handbook editors... since they have Punisher at Level 7 as well, since he is proficient at all styles of combat, armed and unarmed. If that is not what you are relying on, do you have a scan that helps prove Wolverine has mastered all known martial arts? On that same note, do you have a scan that Shang Chi has mastered every martial art? I am honestly curious.

One punch from the Hulk > damage the combined efforts of these martial artists can dish out in a week. Wolverine could sit in chair and let them unload on him for an hour straight, and still get up and kick their asses.

Wolverine wins?

^ Sorry, between pressure points, crushing tendons, gauging out eyes, knocking the wind out of him and being able to grab all his limbs and put him into a MMA virtual crab hold... with the talent present here? I don't think Wolverine makes it out of scenario 1 at all.

I don't think even Elektra and Wolverine switching places with the stipulations makes it out of the scenario either. Do you think so?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Wait wait. You do know that this isn't a gauntlet right? This is a gang-bang, for all intents and purposes? Meaning, all those combatants attack Wolverine at the same time... So, if you would indulge me, please tell me if Wolverine wins scenario 1 again. And then let me know if you switched Elektra and Wolverine in scenario 1, would you have Elektra winning against all those opponents?

I'll tell you again then... By cutting and stabbing the living crap out of them.

No I wouldn't give Elektra better odds than Logan in that fight, but Elektra isn't as strong as Wolverine, doesn't have the same level of stamina, the ability to increase her stats with a berserker rage, a healing factor strong enough to help take 6 hits from World War Hulk.
What the hell kind of example is that? Elektra would have to win with sheer, speed, skill, and TP because she can't afford to take damage in this kind of fight, Wolverine can.. He can afford to take A LOT of damage at that.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Past that, are you using Wolverine's Marvel Database level as proof that Wolverine has mastered all known martial arts? Because, that's not proof even according to the Marvel Handbook editors... since they have Punisher at Level 7 as well, since he is proficient at all styles of combat, armed and unarmed. I'm referencing the level 7 to give some scope on the versatility of Wolverine's fighting capabilities, one would assume that to be the case when you have a 100plus year old warrior who's been all over the world, and a trained killer/agent/soldier in most of those places.
Handbooks, database, cards, all of them dictate that Logan's at the top of the heap when it comes to fighting ability to argue anything else is purely asinine. I really don't know what else to tell you.

As for Punisher? Where did it come from? some handbooks/level charts etc go up to 9 I've seen a couple go past 10. Punisher's never been at a level of 100% proffeciency from what I've seen, if he's listed as such at some point I'm unaware of it. And if he is, he hasn't been listed as such consistently, Wolverine has. Shit, in overpower Wolverine ws rated higher than Cap.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If that is not what you are relying on, do you have a scan that helps prove Wolverine has mastered all known martial arts? On that same note, do you have a scan that Shang Chi has mastered every martial art? I am honestly curious. He's a 100plus year old warrior. He's tought a ton of members of the X-Men X-Force, Gen X etc everything from Judo to Krav Magra. He's constantly stated as being a ridiculously skilled fighter. He's impressed Cap. X thought he was THEE best. X's soldiers state that he's using all sorts of MA in their fight with him. He's been all over the wolrd as an agent/killer/warrior for damn near every major organization. He was tought by a thousands year old demon ancient styles that were thought to be myths. He was tought by that demon for years, the same being who gave Kitty Pride enough training in 2 weeks to equal a lifetime and made her good enough to be quite a threat to Logan in h2h. He's a constantly reincarnating warrior spirit. Even if you feel the Weapon X book has no validity (I do), there's still the fact that he was stated as much in Netsuke, referenced as such in his fight with Ba'al and shown as much and then implied to reinforce the ideal during Loebs own run.

Top that off with the fact that Marvel has consistently given Wolverine 1005 fighting profeciency since he's made appearances in handbooks and all I can say is to further assume that he isn't as skilled as people he's beaten like Cap, like Shang Chi (both of whom have outright stated to know every martial art known to man) is to be wearing blinders for no apparent reason.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
One punch from the Hulk > damage the combined efforts of these martial artists can dish out in a week. Wolverine could sit in chair and let them unload on him for an hour straight, and still get up and kick their asses.

Wolverine wins?

Scenario 1, yes,

Jinzin, well... so you think Elektra can beat up Wolverine straight up... but would do poorer in this fight... hmm... interesting... Doesn't really quite make sense to me. I don't see how stripping them of their weapons suddenly changes everything around between the two. I've seen Wolverine taken down by street-levelers before barehanded. And here, he's got 6 of the best. I'm also assuming Green Arrow = Connor Hawke. You do know how good Connor Hawke is, right?

And Punisher has been listed at 7 for a while now. And if you read the editor's notes, you'll see that level 7 does not mean mastery of all known martial arts. It simply means proficiency at all styles of combat. Including gunplay. That's why Iron Fist is a 6 and Punisher is a 7 for like fours years now. Wolverine being a 7 does not equate to him being a master of all martial arts. If you're going to use the Marvel Database and Handbooks, then you have to follow their rules and logic.

And you still have not shown any evidence that Shang Chi has mastered every martial art.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Sorry, between pressure points, crushing tendons, gauging out eyes, knocking the wind out of him and being able to grab all his limbs and put him into a MMA virtual crab hold... with the talent present here? I don't think Wolverine makes it out of scenario 1 at all.

I don't think even Elektra and Wolverine switching places with the stipulations makes it out of the scenario either. Do you think so? Pressure points are really the ONLY thing that they could do to him.

They're not stronger than him, so it'd have to be a combined effort to wrestle him down to the ground and put him in submission holds. Even then you're talking about a guy who's 2 to 3 times stronger than most of the people here.

Adamantium bones mean breaking maneuvars won't work. Crushed tendons, if Wolverine's adrenaline gets kicked up and he gets revved up during this fight, which he almost certainly would given that he knows he's up against at least one telepath, crushed tendons are little more than an annoyance to Wolverine coming into this fight at peak capacity. The guy got up 4 seconds after having his larnyx crushed, AFTER a fight with Death's Head II, and that was all before Fatal Attractions.

The fact of the matter is that striking by enlarge simply will not work against a guy who can take absurd amounts of punishment from Hulk when he gets going. Presure points are the only thing they'd have going for them without weapons but could they land enough fast enough to take Logan down? Not if he's taking this fight seriously, and to be honest, Wolverine doesn't even need much skill to keep them at bay, spinning in circles while wildly flailing his arms about would suffice.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
jinzin, well... so you think Elektra can beat up Wolverine straight up... but would do poorer in this fight... hmm... interesting...


Uh, no. I've never said that. What I've said is that in their confrontations Elektra's always looked superior in SKILL and at least a bit faster perhaps.
But in a straight fight that Logan would win simply because he can easily outlast her and attack her openings while she tries to strike/kill him.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And Punisher has been listed at 7 for a while now. And if you read the editor's notes, you'll see that level 7 does not mean mastery of all known martial arts. It simply means proficiency at all styles of combat. Including gunplay. That's why Iron Fist is a and Punisher is a 7. Wolverine being a 7 does nto equate to him being a master of all martial arts. If you're going to use the Marvel Database and Handbooks, then you have to follow their rules and logic.
Every time I've seen his listing it's been at a 5 or 6. I interpret "all styles of combat" to mean just that. Different MA being different "styles" well...
Otherwise you would have people like Bushman a 7 which is... bleh!

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And you still have not shown any evidence that Shang Chi has mastered every martial art. He handled four guys who boasted as much.

Originally posted by jinzin
Pressure points are really the ONLY thing that they could do to him.

They're not stronger than him, so it'd have to be a combined effort to wrestle him down to the ground and put him in submission holds. Even then you're talking about a guy who's 2 to 3 times stronger than most of the people here.

Adamantium bones mean breaking maneuvars won't work. Crushed tendons, if Wolverine's adrenaline gets kicked up and he gets revved up during this fight, which he almost certainly would given that he knows he's up against at least one telepath, crushed tendons are little more than an annoyance to Wolverine coming into this fight at peak capacity. The guy got up 4 seconds after having his larnyx crushed, AFTER a fight with Death's Head II, and that was all before Fatal Attractions.

The fact of the matter is that striking by enlarge simply will not work against a guy who can take absurd amounts of punishment from Hulk when he gets going. Presure points are the only thing they'd have going for them without weapons but could they land enough fast enough to take Logan down? Not if he's taking this fight seriously, and to be honest, Wolverine doesn't even need much skill to keep them at bay, spinning in circles while wildly flailing his arms about would suffice. Cmon now. Spiderwoman managed to stab him with his own claws. Cap was about to do the same til Logan was smart enough to retract them. And then what happened? I never argued that they'd try to break his bones. All the Marvel combatants would know he is laced with adamantium and they'd tell their allies they could never break his bones.

Flailing around in circles is enough to take out Elektra, Shiva, Connor Hawke, Shang Chi, Bronze Tiger AND Bullseye (also laced with adamantium)? I think you overestimate Wolverine a bit too much in scenario 1.

We also need to consider the fact that Wolverine is not some slow powerhouse. He speedblitzed Sabertooth at one point. He moved, slashed and disappeared multiple times without Sabertooth having any chance to react.

Originally posted by jinzin
Wolverine's harsh on himself. That's nothing new. Maybe you should pick up more of his books.
The same Elektra that's put him down before, and kicked his ass accross an apartment rooftop....
Logan taking down people that are not comparable to Elektra is not relivent to this debate...

Again.. Not even the fight I was reffering too.. But Elektra there clearly has an advantage. Wolverine's on the ground sais in his shoulders (again) and about to be pummbled with a lead pipe... Yeah she definitely wasn't winning that one.

... The fight where she left him for dead is seperate from the EOTS fight...

And that fight took place well before his second mutation...

OMG.. So when she does pwn elites like Wolverine, TM, DD, and Razorfist it doesn't count.

And again, it wasn't what I meant. I'm not backpeddling it just wasn't what I meant, not that there isn't any evidence to support that she couldn't mind rape Batman like you're thinking, I was just giving him the benefit of the doubt that she might not be able to.

Read Elektra: Assassin, she literally forces her mind into other people and makes them act as her vessal. No joke...

And there's nothing wrong with his HF in his EOTS fight with Elektra in terms of the writing. He was hamburger meat shortly before that fight. His HF would clearly not be fast acting.

It IS PIS when you have a character downed by something and then ignore that to abuse him later. Jinzin, these are snippets from another thread. All from a single post. Dude... between Elektra and Wolverine, you seesaw like two kids on cocaine and steroids. I have no idea anymore who you think would beat the other anymore. I'll just have to bump some Elektra vs Wolverine thread to find out or make one of my own.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Cmon now. Spiderwoman managed to stab him with his own claws. Cap was about to do the same til Logan was smart enough to retract them. And then what happened? I never argued that they'd try to break his bones. All the Marvel combatants would know he is laced with adamantium and they'd tell their allies they could never break his bones.

Flailing around in circles is enough to take out Elektra, Shiva, Connor Hawke, Shang Chi, Bronze Tiger AND Bullseye (also laced with adamantium)? I think you overestimate Wolverine a bit too much in scenario 1.

Spiderwomman is WAYYYY stronger than EVERYONE in this thread including Wolverine. She can lift ten tons minimum. And that was against a slightly surprised, cautious, and fatigued Wolverine who'd been on the run for 6 hours before the Avengers even showed up and who she venom blasted before doing that. How is that even slightly, no, REMOTELY comparable to this thread?

Cap, still stronger than Wolverine's opponents in this thread, was facing against a Wolverine who was also fatigued out and eating his own flesh for substanance, and Cap did that while Wolverine dropped his guard turned semi-away from Cap and tried to explain to him the situation of what was taking place, Cap practically cheap shotted him there. Again, not relivent HERE.

Not at all, but the claws are sharp enough to make mince meat of anyone who gets touched by them. There's no room for error on the teams part even light cuts will draw a decent amount of blood, damaging to stamina and the psyche.
On the other hand, as Srank pointed out, Wolverine can take LOADS of punishment from them and shrug it off. They need pressure points to take him down. They're not going to do that for the majority.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Sorry, between pressure points, crushing tendons, gauging out eyes, knocking the wind out of him and being able to grab all his limbs and put him into a MMA virtual crab hold... with the talent present here? I don't think Wolverine makes it out of scenario 1 at all.

I don't think even Elektra and Wolverine switching places with the stipulations makes it out of the scenario either. Do you think so?

No? Hulk lifts thousands of tons. Hulk could punch you in the big toe, and the force of the punch would still rupture every organ in your body and turn your insides into paste. Pressure points work by applying pressure to a certain vulnerable area, the force of the Hulk's blows apply pressure every where, including pressure points. A single blow from the Hulk is more damage than the combined forces of these martial artist can replicated; pressure points or not.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Jinzin, these are snippets from another thread. All from a single post. Dude... between Elektra and Wolverine, you seesaw like two kids on cocaine and steroids. I have no idea anymore who you think would beat the other anymore. I'll just have to bump some Elektra vs Wolverine thread to find out or make one of my own.

WOW... way to ignore context there buddy...

We were talking about historical references, to which my opponent didn't think Elektra had a clear advantage over Wolverine in EOTS, she clearly did. Is it that big of a deal for a Wolverine defender? Not really, Wolverine was mind controlled, distracted when the fight started and kept alive by life support minutes earlier. It's still an impressive feat for Elektra vs. an at least decently skilled/fast opponent (I've stated Wolverine to be around mid to low level 2nd tier during this confrontation before as well), it's still an advantage. It's not a pinacle representation for Elektra vs. Logan, but you can't logically deny she was winning.

When Elektra stabbed Logan through the heart and left him for dead? Again, shows Elektra's superior skill/speed. Is it that big of a deal for a Wolverine supporter? Not really, the fight presumably took place shortly after Weapon X, Wolverine's head was still a complete mess, a long long time before Wolverine's HF and skill increased in recent years.

In Nemesis, she was again kicking his ass, but all Nemesis does is prove what I've been saying all along, while Elektra may be a bit more skilled, all Logan needs is to take the punishment long enough to land one good hit. The same with Wolverine 103.

But IN THIS THREAD, UNDER THESE CONDITIONS, Elektra doesn't even have her sais in the first fight, there goes her best shot at being able to significantly damage Logan, pretty big difference from previous fights.

Wolverine, as far as Im aware, is not immune to nerve holds. Enough people on the team can expertly apply them that they could throw Bullseye in to be slaughtered and then all make a play for one. A lot of them could stalemate Wolverine for a time, so all at once I do believe would be overkill.

Scenario 2 the team should win the majority, I'd say 8/10 even

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
No? Hulk lifts thousands of tons. Hulk could punch you in the big toe, and the force of the punch would still rupture every organ in your body and turn your insides into paste. Pressure points work by applying pressure to a certain vulnerable area, the force of the Hulk's blows apply pressure every where, including pressure points. A single blow from the Hulk is more damage than the combined forces of these martial artist can replicated; pressure points or not. Sorry. But I explained my theory as to why Wolverine's body isn't reduced to paste when he gets smacked by Hulk a long time ago:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=21541&pagenumber=32

Fact is, Wolverine has been knocked out by blunt force that was categorically less than Hulk. Far less. And knock out isn't the only way they can win. Pressure points, simple incapacitation where he can't move, etc.
Originally posted by jinzin
But IN THIS THREAD, UNDER THESE CONDITIONS, Elektra doesn't even have her sais in the first fight, there goes her best shot at being able to significantly damage Logan, pretty big difference from previous fights. Jinzin, fine. Elektra without her sais... but with the help of Batman, Bronze Tiger, Connor Hawke, Shang Chi AND Shiva gets her ass kicked. Ok. I see the logic there. Totally:

Having sais >>>>>> Batman + Bronze Tiger + Connor Hawke + Shang Chi + Shiva and Elektra who can actually punch through a guy's chest anyway...

I'm not out here to change your opinion, that's impossible. I'm only here to point out the gaping holes in your logic to everyone else.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
No? Hulk lifts thousands of tons. Hulk could punch you in the big toe, and the force of the punch would still rupture every organ in your body and turn your insides into paste. no it wouldn't

basically imagine having a pillar slam into your big toe, your big toe is gone, but no organ of yours would be affected in the slightest

stop making up sh1t

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Sorry. But I explained my theory as to why Wolverine's body isn't reduced to paste when he gets smacked by Hulk a long time ago:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=21541&pagenumber=32


...

Here is why Adamantium is different than Vibranium. Vibranium absorbs impact, Adamantium resists it. If anything by virtue of their incredible durability, Wolverine's bone would absorb less impact then a normal human's since their is no give in them what so ever.

Originally posted by Starscream M
no it wouldn't

basically imagine having a pillar slam into your big toe, your big toe is gone, but no organ of yours would be affected in the slightest

stop making up sh1t

What?

Imagine having a missile hit you in the foot. Now tell me what sort of condition your internal organs are in?

Hulk can lift thousands of tons. The force he would create just be swinging his arms would be enough to kill a normal human. Physics for the win? Stay in school.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
...

Here is why Adamantium is different than Vibranium. Vibranium absorbs impact, Adamantium resists it. If anything by virtue of their incredible durability, Wolverine's bone would absorb less impact then a normal human's since their is no give in them what so ever. Sorry, but the harder a metal is, the more force it absorbs. If I punched a copper plated hand, the hand would be crushed. If I punched a steel plated hand, my hand would be crushed. Having less malleability means absolutely nothing.

Fact is, Wolverine's actual bones have been snapped by people far lower than class 100. Just because he gets smacked by class 100's, doesn't mean his flesh and durability is all of a sudden class 100. Captain America and Spiderman have been smacked by class 100's as well. Batman too. Heck, Daredevil also. This narrow logic doesn't work simply because it's applied to Wolverine.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Sorry, but the harder a metal is, the more force it absorbs. If I punched a copper plated hand, the hand would be crushed. If I punched a steel plated hand, my hand would be crushed. Having less malleability means absolutely nothing.

Fact is, Wolverine's actual bones have been snapped by people far lower than class 100. Just because he gets smacked by class 100's, doesn't mean his flesh and durability is all of a sudden class 100. Captain America and Spiderman have been smacked by class 100's as well. Batman too. Heck, Daredevil also. This narrow logic doesn't work simply because it's applied to Wolverine.

Does it absorb the force or does it shunt it? Adamantium is so dense and the molecules are so title back that there isn't any room for force to be absorbed.

The difference is that Wolverine takes damage form class 100's by nature of his abilities, the other's do it by the nature of the plot. Captain America, Batman and Spider-man never brag or boost about taking blows from Superman, or the Hulk, and their team mates never bring it up because it is nonsensical and shouldn't happen. Wolverine on the other hand has done more then simply be hit by class 100s. He has been knocked into orbit. He has been punched across state lines. He has been sent flying literally miles. And the fact that he has is brought up all the time because he is supposed to be able to do it. If you can't see the difference between what Batman getting punched by a class 100, and Wolverine doing like wise then you are purposely ignoring what is actually happening in the comics you read.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Does it absorb the force or does it shunt it? Adamantium is so dense and the molecules are so title back that there isn't any room for force to be absorbed.

The difference is that Wolverine takes damage form class 100's by nature of his abilities, the other's do it by the nature of the plot. Captain America, Batman and Spider-man never brag or boost about taking blows from Superman, or the Hulk, and their team mates never bring it up because it is nonsensical and shouldn't happen. Wolverine on the other hand has done more then simply be hit by class 100s. He has been knocked into orbit. He has been punched across state lines. He has been sent flying literally miles. And the fact that he has is brought up all the time because he is supposed to be able to do it. If you can't see the difference between what Batman getting punched by a class 100, and Wolverine doing like wise then you are purposely ignoring what is actually happening in the comics you read. Wolverine gets punched into orbit because he can take it by virtue of his adamantium skeleton and his healing factor. Captain America does not have an adamanitum skeleton or a healing factor. I'm not ignoring anything.

Simple question: "Do you think that Wolverine's muscle density is a greater factor than his adamantium skeleton and healing factor when taking those class 100 hits?"

Easy question. Yes or no answer. If you please.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Wolverine gets punched into orbit because he can take it by virtue of his adamantium skeleton and his healing factor. Captain America does not have an adamanitum skeleton or a healing factor. I'm not ignoring anything.

Simple question: "Do you think that Wolverine's muscle density is a greater factor than his adamantium skeleton and healing factor when taking those class 100 hits?"

Easy question. Yes or no answer. If you please.

I'm confused. Weren't you just arguing that Wolverine taking those punches was bullshit in the same vein as Cap or Batman doing it? If not, why even bring them up...

No. I don't think either plays a significant role.

^ Mew? I don't think I've ever argued that Wolverine or Captain America or Spiderman couldn't take a punch from Hulk.

And you didn't answer my question directly, "Do you think that Wolverine's muscle density is a greater factor than his adamantium skeleton and healing factor when taking those class 100 hits?"

I'm not going to put words into your mouth. I'm done doing that thorughout these sorts of debates. Answer the question. Yes or no.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Mew? I don't think I've ever argued that Wolverine or Captain America or Spiderman couldn't take a punch from Hulk.


What exactly was this meant to imply then?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Just because he gets smacked by class 100's, doesn't mean his flesh and durability is all of a sudden class 100. Captain America and Spiderman have been smacked by class 100's as well. Batman too. Heck, Daredevil also. This narrow logic doesn't work simply because it's applied to Wolverine.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And you didn't answer my question directly, "Do you think that Wolverine's muscle density is a greater factor than his adamantium skeleton and healing factor when taking those class 100 hits?"

I'm not going to put words into your mouth. I'm done doing that thorughout these sorts of debates. Answer the question. Yes or no.

I believe I already said no?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
What exactly was this meant to imply then?That because Cap and Spiderman and Batman and Daredevil have taken hits from bonefied class 100's, that is no evidence to suggest that their muscles and sinews are laced with concurrent 100 class durability? I don't think they have insane durability. When you say that Wolverine has taken hits from Hulk, I say, "Yeah? So? Doesn't mean his body is as durable as a normal class 100's..." What am I not getting?

Maybe because I've been drinking beer all day, but seriously, I don't know where the hole in my logic is. And if you ever wanted to show me up, now's the time. Cuz... I haven't eaten anything all day, and I'm just drinking beer. Honestly. Like... you could totally catch me off-guard and it'd be immortalized in teh intarnet!!!!!! :dur:
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I believe I already said no? So. When Hulk or Namor hits Wolverine... "Hs ability to get right back up into the fight is more a virtue of his dense musculature than his adamantium skeleton AND his healing factor? According to you, that's correct?"

Answer that one more question, yes or no. For my indulgence. Please.

P.S. :dur: is not the command for Badabing's dur smiley? WTH? What's the hypertext, dammit?

P.S.S. Is it :durr: ???

P.S.S.S. Oi, what the f@ck?! Is this magic smiley or something?1

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
P.S. :dur: is not the command for Badabing's dur smiley? WTH? What's the hypertext, dammit?

P.S.S. Is it :durr: ???

P.S.S.S. Oi, what the f@ck?! Is this magic smiley or something?1

~ dur ~

Take out the spaces though.

Originally posted by batdude123
~ dur ~

Take out the spaces though. :dur:

^ How come I have colons on either side of the dur smiley, dammit?!

P.S.dur

Oh I see...

Don't use colons. Just the "~" sign.

dur

Edit: Never mind. doped

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That because Cap and Spiderman and Batman and Daredevil have taken hits from bonefied class 100's, that is no evidence to suggest that their muscles and sinews are laced with concurrent 100 class durability? I don't think they have insane durability. When you say that Wolverine has taken hits from Hulk, I say, "Yeah? So? Doesn't mean his body is as durable as a normal class 100's..." What am I not getting?


I thought you where imply that Wolverine's healing factor wasn't capable of dealing with that sort of damage, in the same way Captain America or Batman can't. I don't know why you felt compelled to point out that Wolverine's muscles aren't as durable as a high end brick... I don't think any reasonable person would make that assumption.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Maybe because I've been drinking beer all day, but seriously, I don't know where the hole in my logic is. And if you ever wanted to show me up, now's the time. Cuz... I haven't eaten anything all day, and I'm just drinking beer. Honestly. Like... you could totally catch me off-guard and it'd be immortalized in teh intarnet!!!!!! :dur:
So. When Hulk or Namor hits Wolverine... "Hs ability to get right back up into the fight is more a virtue of his dense musculature than his adamantium skeleton AND his healing factor? According to you, that's correct?"

Answer that one more question, yes or no. For my indulgence. Please.

Yes.

The Adamantium skeleton keeps his body in one piece and shields his brain. It limits the damage his healing factor needs to deal with, as he doesn't need to regrow bones or lost body parts. What I don't think, is that the usefulness of the skeleton as anything to do with the asborbtion of mechanical energy.

Team for scenario 2. Not sure about scenario 1.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I thought you where imply that Wolverine's healing factor wasn't capable of dealing with that sort of damage, in the same way Captain America or Batman can't. I don't know why you felt compelled to point out that Wolverine's muscles aren't as durable as a high end brick... I don't think any reasonable person would make that assumption.



Yes.

The Adamantium skeleton keeps his body in one piece and shields his brain. It limits the damage his healing factor needs to deal with, as he doesn't need to regrow bones or lost body parts. What I don't think, is that the usefulness of the skeleton as anything to do with the asborbtion of mechanical energy. So bottom-line... Wolverine's muscular density has more to do with his ability to soak damage than his adamantium skeleton and his healing factor? K. Carved in stone, your answer is! Why am I talking like Yoda?! I don't know!

Now how about the comic plot device of "rolling with the blow?" You know about them. "Would you ever consider that particular technique/excuse as being applicable to when Wolverine gets hit by class 100 blows?"

Lulz @ this thread

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So bottom-line... Wolverine's muscular density has more to do with his ability to soak damage than his adamantium skeleton and his healing factor? K. Carved in stone, your answer is! Why am I talking like Yoda?! I don't know!

Now how about the comic plot device of "rolling with the blow?" You know about them. "Would you ever consider that particular technique/excuse as being applicable to when Wolverine gets hit by class 100 blows?"

Opps I ment to say "no" in my previous post. As you can see from what I wrote after I said yes, I think it has more to do with the skeleton then muscle density.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Opps I ment to say "no" in my previous post. As you can see from what I wrote after I said yes, I think it has more to do with the skeleton then muscle density. Oh. Disregard my subsequent questions then. That question has no relevance anymore.

scenario 1) sooner or later team ma all get seriously maimed, massive blood loss or dismemberment for the loss. but maybe someome can get behind him and get him into a full nelson, you never know.

scenario 2) team for the win. all they have to do is keep a somewhat fixated distance around him and hit him with gadgets/weapons from behind, never getting too close to him. batman or green arrow have the tools for this just as long as they don't get jumped by logan, the other fighters can provide ample distraction.

they may lose a couple of guys but team ma can beat him or at least subdue him.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Sai in the eye anyone?


Hahaha, this cracked me up.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Jinzin, fine. Elektra without her sais... but with the help of Batman, Bronze Tiger, Connor Hawke, Shang Chi AND Shiva gets her ass kicked. Ok. I see the logic there. Totally:

Having sais >>>>>> Batman + Bronze Tiger + Connor Hawke + Shang Chi + Shiva and Elektra who can actually punch through a guy's chest anyway...

I'm not out here to change your opinion, that's impossible. I'm only here to point out the gaping holes in your logic to everyone else.

So when you're not blowing shit completely out of context you're buisy stuffing words in my mouh with strawmen huh?

What part about linear time here are you having trouble with? What I was arguing there was that Elektra looked superior to Logan in skill, but that in a KMC fight to the finish Logan'd still win. Now I'm not sure which part you're having trouble grasping here. The fact that I don't think Elektra can beat Logan in a fight to the finish, or the fact that taking away her sais takes away her best ability to damage Logan. All of the sudden the fact that she's stabbed him in the shoulders? Irrelivent. The fact that she's stabbed Wolverine in the heart? Irrelivent.

There's no gaping holes in my logic. Elektra might be more skilled than Wolverine and possibly/probably faster but she won't win a fight to the finish. On panel evidence supports this.
Taking away her sais reduces her chances to sinificantly harm Wolverine. Common sense.
It also decreases her reach. Common sense.
At no point did I state that Elektra with sias>>>Rest of the team, that's just a strawman you made, and the fact that that was what you concluded to only shows how poor your logic is.

The thread doesn't mentions that the fight is to the death, an simple KO would be enough. Yeah they can't KO Logan with brute str, but with martial arts it shouldn't be such an big prob. Even 1 on 1 most of those listed would stand an good chance, as a team Wolverine wouldn't even win 1 out of 10.

Do you even realize how hard it is to put a full bill of health boasting Logan down for the count. 1 on 1 most of these people would get decimated vs. Logan without weapons.

With a name like Batman-Prime, he's obviously a Bruce fan... but that doesn't make him wrong... this IS overkill... only a wolvie fanboy would disagree... the problem here isn't "BATMAN" love.

it's typical Logan-phile B.S.

Originally posted by jinzin
Do you even realize how hard it is to put a full bill of health boasting Logan down for the count. 1 on 1 most of these people would get decimated vs. Logan without weapons. just like how Logan always 'decimates' DD, Elektra, Captain America, Black Panther, etc when they fight right?

Originally posted by FOOM
With a name like Batman-Prime, he's obviously a Bruce fan... but that doesn't make him wrong... this IS overkill... only a wolvie fanboy would disagree... the problem here isn't "BATMAN" love.

it's typical Logan-phile B.S.

Translation: An attack from 6 peak humans = more devastating than a barrage of punches from the Hulk... apparently

Originally posted by Starscream M
just like how Logan always 'decimates' DD, Elektra, Captain America, Black Panther, etc when they fight right? He's beaten DD easily. Was beating him while mind controlled and has beaten a superhuman DD in a non 616 so yes.
Elektra's circumstantial in more than one way.
He's beaten Cap while mind controlled, beaten him while weakened, beaten his clone, beaten him in non 616 so yes.

Originally posted by Starscream M
just like how Logan always 'decimates' DD, Elektra, Captain America, Black Panther, etc when they fight right?

Wolverine and DD have fought twice. The one time they where both 100% DD ended up in a fullnelson in three panels. The second time Wolverine was A) mind controlled B) trying to fight off said mind control C) was missing part of his sould and D) wasn't actually trying to kill D (he was only bait for Elektra)... and DD still only managed to stay alive by temporary breaking HYDRA's hold over Logan. Hurray for a plot device? You bet your ass.

Elektra's only real fight with Wolverine was in EotS, where everything post above about Daredevil is true, only on top of all that he was being kept alive by live support only moments earlier and she got the drop on him while he was in combat. Redeemer isn't canon and I don't think Rise of the Imperfects is either.

Captain America has fought a mindless Werewolf mind-controlled Wolverine (a situation in which Wolverine still had the upper hand) and in Origin's he got the drop on Wolverine after he had already been put through the ringers by Nuke. Wolverine at this point in Origins had been going non-stop without food or water since HoM and had even passed out from hunger and sleep deprivation and had to eat his own arm. Even before his fight with Nuke, he wasn't 100%... and Cap only managed to "win" briefly because of a magic sword... and at the end of the day Cap still passed out and had to be rushed to medical attention so he wouldn't die.

Black Panther was quickly over powered by Wolverine in CoC. BP managed to dodge one blow and went into hiding, attacked Wolverine when he fought out Logan's sense of smell was as powerful as his own... and was quickly pinned. He only managed to escape because Thing showed up and distracted Logan. Other than that... he managed to toss Wolverine once. Big deal. Wolverine has done that to the freaking Mandarin!

Aside from BP, everyone of those people have had massive plot devices in their favor when they've "fought" Wolverine.

Even in a dojo Bullseye and Green Arrow should have enough of a distance advantage to hit Woverine in some vulnerable nerve points and the eyes allowing the rest of team a chance to take him down when acting together.
Wolverine CAN be temporarily weakened. Ask Mariko's father who hit him with poison shurikens (something Bullseye could do) and then beat the hell out of Logan with a wooden sword.
You insist 6 peak humans aren't as tough as the hulk- absolutely true... but are we also to believe these 6 aren't as tough as one old man with a blackbelt in Kendo?

Originally posted by FOOM
Even in a dojo Bullseye and Green Arrow should have enough of a distance advantage to hit Woverine in some vulnerable nerve points and the eyes allowing the rest of team a chance to take him down when acting together.
Wolverine CAN be temporarily weakened. Ask Mariko's father who hit him with poison shurikens (something Bullseye could do) and then beat the hell out of Logan with a wooden sword.
You insist 6 peak humans aren't as tough as the hulk- absolutely true... but are we also to believe these 6 aren't as tough as one old man with a blackbelt in Kendo? You know trying to downplay Hooverspleen like that is neither funny nor creative.

What's the eye shot supposed to do?

Originally posted by FOOM
Even in a dojo Bullseye and Green Arrow should have enough of a distance advantage to hit Woverine in some vulnerable nerve points and the eyes allowing the rest of team a chance to take him down when acting together.
Wolverine CAN be temporarily weakened. Ask Mariko's father who hit him with poison shurikens (something Bullseye could do) and then beat the hell out of Logan with a wooden sword.
You insist 6 peak humans aren't as tough as the hulk- absolutely true... but are we also to believe these 6 aren't as tough as one old man with a blackbelt in Kendo?

Shingen is an absolute Beast. The guy would wreak any of the people listed here (with the possible exception of Elektra due to telepathy and her other powers). He was faster and more skilled than Silver Samurai, significantly so... and Silver Samurai has punked Spider-man in two hits. Don't down play Shingen's skills, he is a master, and more skilled than any of these MA's... and the last time they fought Wolverine only took a single hit (and he was weakend and less skilled by having part of his soul removed).

Also Wolverine's healing factor is exponentially stronger now then it was during his first incounter with Shingen. Nerve attacks and pressure points are useless, his healing factor will deal with the damage in seconds.

A) What the hell is Hooverspleen?

B)Eye shots hurt; even Logan can be stunned by pain
AND the brain is right behind them... could stun him. Thought that was obvious.

C) What is invalid about my point that if Lord Shingen can take him maybe these 6 fighters could as well?

Originally posted by FOOM
A) What the hell is Hooverspleen?
Wolverine: "Deadpool? Kinda rhymes with Dead fool."
Deadpool: "Oh yeah! Well your namerhymes with... Just what does Wolverine rhyme with? ... Hooverspleen ..."

Originally posted by FOOM
B)Eye shots hurt; even Logan can be stunned by pain
AND the brain is right behind them... could stun him. Thought that was obvious. Actually there's BONE right behind the eye, in Wolverine's case it'd be adamantium bonded bone right behind the eye.

Yeah, A little pain is going to stop him... Do you know anything about the character?

Originally posted by FOOM
C) What is invalid about my point that if Lord Shingen can take him maybe these 6 fighters could as well? Its an ad hoc aequivocation fallacy. That's what's invalid about it.

LOL to logan being stunned by his eyes hurting lol

A)
"Wolverine: "Deadpool? Kinda rhymes with Dead fool."
Deadpool: "Oh yeah! Well your namerhymes with... Just what does Wolverine rhyme with? ... Hooverspleen ..."

-What the hell does that have to do with anything I said?

B) typical fanboy response to replace "stun" with "stop" to make the claim seem less credible.
We have all see Logan stunned before. Shingen did it with nerve strikes.

C) Every skull I've seen has emptiness between the optical cavity and the back of the skull. I'm no biologist, so i could be wrong, but you'll have to cite a source that shows otherwise.

Originally posted by FOOM

B) typical fanboy response to replace "stun" with "stop" to make the claim seem less credible.
We have all see Logan stunned before. Shingen did it with nerve strikes.

.
No he did not actually...........and Logan was poisoned.............

actually they failed to work and they were kill shots and that was prior to fatal attraction in which Logan healing factor was amped to far greater levels.


oh and Logan has ahs his eye slashed and kept on fighting, as well as far worses damage with out being stunned

Originally posted by FOOM
A)
"Wolverine: "Deadpool? Kinda rhymes with Dead fool."
Deadpool: "Oh yeah! Well your namerhymes with... Just what does Wolverine rhyme with? ... Hooverspleen ..."

-What the hell does that have to do with anything I said? Who said it had anything to do with what you said?

Originally posted by FOOM
B) typical fanboy/b] Reported for member bashing.

Originally posted by FOOM
response to replace "stun" with "stop" to make the claim seem less credible. Trust me, changing one little word like that won't damage something that doesn't exist.. in this case the credibility of the claim.

Originally posted by FOOM
We have all see Logan stunned before. Shingen did it with nerve strikes. And we've all seen him waltz through things that hurt like hell. and those of us that actually READ his comics know that he's hurting all the time.

Originally posted by FOOM
C) Every skull I've seen has emptiness between the optical cavity and the back of the skull. How many skulls have you seen?
http://www.solarnavigator.net/biology/biology_images/skull_human_specimen.jpg
http://www.biovere.com/cart/images/real_bone_human_skull_male_s.jpg
http://virtual-anatomy.com/cart/images/A01-1m.jpg
I could keep going , hell if you want I could even tell you the individual parts of that bone that you think doesn't exist.

Originally posted by FOOM
I'm no biologist, Obviously.

Originally posted by FOOM
so i could be wrong, but you'll have to cite a source that shows otherwise. How about biology?

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200410/r34321_85394.jpg
http://www.kihlstudios.com/skulls/images/human_3.jpg
http://mitpress.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/skull.jpg

I see you are right. The brain is not accessible through the eye cavity.

I will not concede to the idea of the "unstunnable" wolverine. I know he's in constant pain, but wolverine can be stunned by non-superhumans, like Shingen. Also, Shingen is not greater than these six combined, who could also use poison on their projectiles to slow Logan down. You just implied Electra (with her additional abilites) is in his league.

Stating that he lost to Shingen so he could lose to these six is just as fair as saying he's held his own with the Hulk so he could beat these 6.


Regarding my "fan boy" comment
My apologies for hurting your feelings.
I can see that was way out of line and I deserved to be reported for it.

Originally posted by FOOM
I see you are right. The brain is not accessible through the eye cavity.

I will not concede to the idea of the "unstunnable" wolverine. I know he's in constant pain, but wolverine can be stunned by non-superhumans, like Shingen. Also, Shingen is not greater than these six combined, who could also use poison on their projectiles to slow Logan down. You just implied Electra (with her additional abilites) is in his league.

Stating that he lost to Shingen so he could lose to these six is just as fair as saying he's held his own with the Hulk so he could beat these 6.


Regarding my "fan boy" comment
My apologies for hurting your feelings.
I can see that was way out of line and I deserved to be reported for it.

Wolverine was saying that the blows Shingen was landing with his bokken would be fatal to a normal human. That's pretty impressive, considering he made it look like it was just a friendly spar to everyone watching. He is more skilled than anyone on this list. Shingen is a monsterous fighter.

And the poison that slowed Wolverine down 25 years ago isn't going to make him bat an eyelid now.

Originally posted by FOOM


Stating that he lost to Shingen so he could lose to these six is just as fair as saying he's held his own with the Hulk so he could beat these 6.


irrelevent example.


Logan was poisoned prior to his fight and his healing factor was vastly weaker then, then is is now.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Elektra's only real fight with Wolverine was in EotS, where everything post above about Daredevil is true, only on top of all that he was being kept alive by live support only moments earlier and she got the drop on him while he was in combat. Redeemer isn't canon and I don't think Rise of the Imperfects is either. Wait.. Redeemer isn't canon? I thought it was aloof within the MU continuity but I don't remember it being a non canonized source.

Originally posted by jinzin
Wait.. Redeemer isn't canon? I thought it was aloof within the MU continuity but I don't remember it being a non canonized source.

There is stuff in the first issue that makes it not cannon. I forget what it is. I remember it being pretty glaring, so if you glance through it, you should find it. I'll try and look through it later if I have time.

Wolverine loses, close thread outta spite.

Originally posted by jinzin
He's beaten DD easily.

He didnt beat him, he put him in a full nelson. Punsiher got out of a full-nelson by Punisher and one of his arms was messed up. Even if you're weaker you can still get out fo a full-nelson. with skill.

Originally posted by jinzin

Was beating him while mind controlled and has beaten a superhuman DD

How was he beating DD when DD dodged most his blows and pushed him and two hand ninjas down the stairs?

P.S. Were does it actually say in that issue with werewolf wolevrine that he had the mind of a werewolf. Dardevil1 looked for it in the issue and apparently it wasn't there.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Wolverine loses, close thread outta spite.

if you don't have anything constructive to add, then don't post, thx...

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He didnt beat him, he put him in a full nelson. Punsiher got out of a full-nelson by Punisher and one of his arms was messed up. Even if you're weaker you can still get out fo a full-nelson. with skill.



How was he beating DD when DD dodged most his blows and pushed him and two hand ninjas down the stairs?

P.S. Were does it actually say in that issue with werewolf wolevrine that he had the mind of a werewolf. Dardevil1 looked for it in the issue and apparently it wasn't there.





.................







So anyways...

Wolverine beat DD easily.

A quick reminder, posting a single smiley isn't spamming unless it disrupts the thread with multiple or extremely long posts.

Offering an opinion or asking questions isn't trolling unless it disrupts the thread or is a blatant disregard of scans and panel feats.

Let's try to keep this in mind before reporting people. Thanks.

LOL I got reported for posting a smiley! I wonder who it was.