Punisher vs Joker

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Starscream M
They each have a week to kill each other. Who will succeed?

Location: NYC

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/40/82180-66292-punisher_super.jpg vs http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/8015/218055-32303-joker_super.jpg

carnage52
joker kills entire population of nyc in a week including the illustrious mr castle.

IronFistPOWER
Joker wins

psycho gundam
if batman had the balls to pack heat he would have killed joker in their first meeting, it's batman's cowardice that allowed the joker to kill all the people he did throughout his career by not permanently taking him down.........castle would do that for fun.

i know some people will get mad but, imo punisher is batman bloodlusted and with more balls.

carnage52
Originally posted by psycho gundam
if batman had the balls to pack heat he would have killed joker in their first meeting, it's batman's cowardice that allowed the joker to kill all the people he did throughout his career by not permanently taking him down.........castle would do that for fun. thats what makes castle a lesser charecter.its not about how many guns you pack or how many people you kill its about strength of charecter.and im afraid castle hasnt got shit on batmans strength of charecter.the reason he hasnt killed joker because that would make him as bad as the joker himself it has been stated numerous times.batman could kill joker just by touching his chest with the right finger positions and right amount of pressure exerted.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by carnage52
thats what makes castle a lesser charecter.its not about how many guns you pack or how many people you kill its about strength of charecter.and im afraid castle hasnt got shit on batmans strength of charecter.the reason he hasnt killed joker because that would make him as bad as the joker himself it has been stated numerous times.batman could kill joker just by touching his chest with the right finger positions and right amount of pressure exerted. yeah well, that "strength of character" is a front if it stops you from killing a well know non-reformable sociopath for good. i mean, how many times can you put a guy in jail only for him to miraculously escape and endanger thousands again for eternity. frank rather cap him and move on to the next dirtbag.

castle simple realizes all violent criminals are trash so he puts them in the garbage.......batman should take notes.

Bouboumaster
Frank Castle would slape Batman's face because he's a sissy and would kill Joker with a good ol' headshot.

Ha-Son
Joker.

psycho gundam
spite thread, joker wouldn't last a week in punisher ny.

if punisher had joker as a rogue;

-punisher would violently interrogate thug upon thug to get info on joker.

-freeze his import/export, racketeering, laundering, and drug businesses with explosives and murder.

-kill all his men, no one gets away to alert their boss.

-joker is pulling his green hair out at this point since his business is crumbling and other mob bosses are sending hit squads to re coup their money/territory.

-this all leads up to the grand meeting between frank and the joker,
a physical fight is asinine as is a gun showdown, all joker has left is running away (as usual) but frank will have his HQ soaked in claymores and plastique explosives + he will have an colt assault rifle in his hand, a magnum on his hip, nades and combat knives too. joker dies that day.

Obsidian Fury
Originally posted by psycho gundam
if batman had the balls to pack heat he would have killed joker in their first meeting, it's batman's cowardice that allowed the joker to kill all the people he did throughout his career by not permanently taking him down.........castle would do that for fun.

i know some people will get mad but, imo punisher is batman bloodlusted and with more balls.

Is it cowardism to not kill someone? Batman is anything but a coward. It simply defy his princips to kill. Besides, how many times have not Joker had the chance to kill Batman? PLENTY.


Joker will win against Punisher.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
Is it cowardism to not kill someone? Batman is anything but a coward. It simply defy his princips to kill. Besides, how many times have not Joker had the chance to kill Batman? PLENTY.


Joker will win against Punisher. how?

and batman isn't a total coward, just a man that is allergic to firearms...... erm

killing joker doesn't make bruce anything but a hero, that stupid logic of him being "just as bad as him" is BS, it is just a way of keeping joker alive. punisher villains come back after re-constructive surgery after a near-death experience, not by letting them get away to further plague humanity... sick

batman would let hitler get away to right? good thing he wasn't in wwII and steve rogers was. killing murderers is neccisary.

there would be no way for joker to live after castle deems him prey, all it would take is a magnum and a bus ticket.

OneDumbG0
Joker would kill Punisher before Punisher would kill Joker if they both put their minds to it. Once Joker understands that he isn't dealing with Batman, he'd get downright serious. He's a genius in his own way. And genius can overcome pure grit and relentlessness. Frankly speaking, I am also of the belief that Joker has better survival feats than Castle does. Punisher at best, would manage to suicide himself and take out Joker as well if Joker were to engage in some convulted shenangians. But like I said, Joker ought to recognize a stone-cold killer when he sees one. So he wouldn't fool around.

Joker ftw 7/10.

george '06
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Joker would kill Punisher before Punisher would kill Joker if they both put their minds to it. Once Joker understands that he isn't dealing with Batman, he'd get downright serious. He's a genius in his own way. And genius can overcome pure grit and relentlessness. Frankly speaking, I am also of the belief that Joker has better survival feats than Castle does. Punisher at best, would manage to suicide himself and take out Joker as well if Joker were to engage in some convulted shenangians. But like I said, Joker ought to recognize a stone-cold killer when he sees one. So he wouldn't fool around.

Joker ftw 7/10.

i completely agree
joker 7/10

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by carnage52
thats what makes castle a lesser charecter.its not about how many guns you pack or how many people you kill its about strength of charecter.and im afraid castle hasnt got shit on batmans strength of charecter.the reason he hasnt killed joker because that would make him as bad as the joker himself it has been stated numerous times.batman could kill joker just by touching his chest with the right finger positions and right amount of pressure exerted.

After the 20th time you apprehend a serial killing, mass murdering psychopath and he escapes and does the same things all over again, adhering to your principles becomes nothing short of idiotic. Batman is a vet who keeps letting rabid dogs go home because he can't go through with what needs to be done. People die as a result of Batman's decision... and he continues to make the same decision over and over again. How noble is that?

Joker wins.

psycho gundam
again how?

someone please inform me what joker has that i'm not aware of.

is it better than a tactical nuke?

if push comes to shove punisher is the right man for all of batman's villeins, he actually has the stomach to use a gun and the balls to kill.

OneDumbG0
^ I can understand your initial preconceptions. But a tactical nuke would surely hurt innocents. And Punisher would never allow that to happen. And if he evacuated the area, then that would surely tip off the Joker and give him fair warning...

psycho gundam
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ I can understand your initial preconceptions. But a tactical nuke would surely hurt innocents. And Punisher would never allow that to happen. And if he evacuated the area, then that would surely tip off the Joker and give him fair warning... i was just stating that castle has heavy duty arms up to and including a tactical nuclear explosive devise. anyway, frank busts out a barret 50. semi-automatic
sniper rifle and gives joker new air holes....from 500 meters away. no expression

clowns tend to stand out amongst other criminals.


p.s. since you are on your pc right now, just imagine punisher is got you dead in his reticle sight with a 50. semi-automatic rifle that can drop a rhinoceros from 2 miles away....sorry you can't, since your head would already be sauce.

OneDumbG0
Yeah... but you're assuming Joker is already in his sights and unawares. I mean... Joker also has prep. And he's got lots of goons and connections in the underworld to help him not get ambushed. It's not like Joker is walking into a warehouse where Punisher has had several hours of prep.

shifty

psycho gundam
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Yeah... but you're assuming Joker is already in his sights and unawares. I mean... Joker also has prep. And he's got lots of goons and connections in the underworld to help him not get ambushed. It's not like Joker is walking into a warehouse where Punisher has had several hours of prep.

shifty well, flamboyance is the killer of all kingpins.

OneDumbG0
^ Truth. But would a common knowledge Joker be flamboyant while confronting the threat of the Punisher? I think that's the only point where we differ. I think Joker knowing who his opponent is, would not act like he would if he were confronting Batman. Otherwise, I agree with everything else you say.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Truth. But would a common knowledge Joker be flamboyant while confronting the threat of the Punisher? I think that's the only point where we differ. I think Joker knowing who his opponent is, would not act like he would if he were confronting Batman. Otherwise, I agree with everything else you say. but again that begs the question:
what the heck is the joker going to do? frank can EASILY end this game of death with any thing in his weapons cache and if it's an all out war, who do you think has better connections?

imo it's a no-win scenario for the joker, he better find a way to become immortal asap.

OneDumbG0
^ I dunno. He could gas 10 square city blocks with his Joker gas. And then when Castle is preoccupied with saving innocents, he'd get his goons or himself to shoot Punisher.

psycho gundam
NY is pretty big and a massive gas attack like that needs flawless planning and quite the bit of setting up.

if these two get the same knowledge of each other's usual avenue of attack, the punisher will be well aware of a gas attack since that is the joker's main thing. a couple anonymous phone calls to the police/fbi and ny is on defcon 4, especially after 9/11 the police presents will be huge.

then it's a sniper chess match. and frank still has battlevan.

OneDumbG0
^ What you state makes sense... but I might disagree with Joker's use of a mass gas attack as common knowledge for Punisher. After all... Batman doesn't evacuate Gotham when he discovers the Joker is loose...

psycho gundam
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ What you state makes sense... but I might disagree with Joker's use of a mass gas attack as common knowledge for Punisher. After all... Batman doesn't evacuate Gotham when he discovers the Joker is loose... maybe not massive but chemical warfare is his gag.

and batman doesn't have to evacuate gotham, he probably couldn't anyway if he tried, all you have to do is alert the government... especially in NY and it closes like a clam shell.
the police/federal agent presents will make joker's operation difficult, even if doesn't go for the wide scale attack.

OneDumbG0
I live in NYC. I don't have cable because my damn studio is too god damn expensive. Even with my 42" plasma Samsung. If CNN told everybody to god damn evacuate, I'd be stuck on KMC forums arguing about whether Punsiher beats Joker before I'd find out about the news that I needed to evacuate NYC.

So there!

All kidding aside. And really... I wasn't kidding. But all kidding aside... with a week's prep and Joker's apathy to innocents, I think he could draw out Punisher before Punisher could track down or draw out Joker.

psycho gundam
well at least you will die with a smile on your face!

"they get a week to kill each other" not a week of prep.

on kmc the combatants get average knowledge of each other: joker is a sociopath that likes lethal laughing gas, and the punisher is a rogue vietnam veteran that is cleaning up the underworld, i guess there is more info but that is the essence of each character.

OneDumbG0
^ I've read more Punisher than I've read Joker. Granted, I've read more Batman then I've read Punisher. But not every Batman story includes Joker. I still think Joker would take this particular scenario.

While Castle would be running around trying to find out where Joker is by beating up and murdering the underworld... Joker could simply resort to mass murder via Joker gas and draw Punisher out. Since Joker has the advantage in drawing Punisher out to where he wants him, the equal prep time works in Joker's favor. Random encounter? I'd give Punisher a slight majority. But that's not the case here.

Starscream M
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ I've read more Punisher than I've read Joker. Granted, I've read more Batman then I've read Punisher. But not every Batman story includes Joker. I still think Joker would take this particular scenario.

While Castle would be running around trying to find out where Joker is by beating up and murdering the underworld... Joker could simply resort to mass murder via Joker gas and draw Punisher out. Since Joker has the advantage in drawing Punisher out to where he wants him, the equal prep time works in Joker's favor. Random encounter? I'd give Punisher a slight majority. But that's not the case here. agreed...even random encounter Joker might have the upper hand, the guy's always got something up his sleeve

psycho gundam
well i guess we agree to disagree.

occultdestroyer
Joker wins. Too smart and a total sociopath.

psycho gundam
no evidence or plan of action...*tsk tsk*

Sado22
Punisher 10/10

IMO joker and the rest of the gotham guys are so used to just being slapped around a bit and then put into rehab (and then breaking out for the millionth time) that the moment they come across a guy who they realize isn't short of sticking up a m60 up their butts and pulling the trigger, they're just going to wet themselves. the only reason Joker actually seems "dangerous" is because Batman or anyone in Gotham won't do jack but slap him around and put him in arkham from which he'll break out of for being the "this week's special villain" for the next (annoyingly repetitive) story arc. i've read almost every arc of batman because i'm a big fan of his but i've gotta say, it gets highly repititive.

in terms of prep, joker has nothing going for him. maybe "acid pies, squirt guns and laughing gas" are DC's idea of "dangerous psychopath", but that isn't even in Frank's league. you're talking about a guy who has outclassed some of the best heroes and villains in marvel. with prep he had everything going his way even against Fisk and had immobalized almost all his routes. more than that, Fisk even asked for doom's help to take out frank and even that failed. so please don't tell me about survivability. i suggest you guys read a few punisher comics before you go around saying that "frank has no prep" or "frank is just gung-ho" or that "he isn't as survivable".

in terms of sheer experience and presence of mind, i'll just that he's survived confrontations against captain america and even "overratedrine" even though they were the ones who got the drop on him. he was able to detect spiderman even though spidey was in spying on him and he has gone so far as to foil DD's ambushes on more than one occassions. on top of that, why do people assume that Joker's goons are actually going to be something new for frank? he's taken on entire platoons on his own and has survived the like a million ambushes.

in terms of durability, he's gone in a h2h scenario with tombstone and survived. he's performed surgery on himself, survived fights with someone like The Russian on three occassions (cyborg Russian Ko'd spidey in two blows), fought and beat Barracuda h2h two out of three times (MAX, but still its not like Frank's doing something he hasn't been proven to do before).

in terms of brawling, he's humiliated DD and has gone toe-to-toe with him in h2h. in fact, frank doesn't even want to kill him. in fact, he's gone into a stalemate on more than one occassion...and in their ONLY "to-the-end" fight, Frank was the one who humiliated DD. all the Joker mostly does is runaway from a fight, or call Harley to back him up. and most importantly, Frank crippled Bullseye. and Bullseye>>Joker

there is nothing going for Joker. he's never faced someone who'd kill...and kill is an understatement when you see some of the ways Frank has killed people. the way he's going to tear through Joker is going to be fun to read.

speaking of which: i keep reading batman's "strength of character". for all my love and respect for bats, to me all that's strength of character only if you actually buy DC's half-assed pop philosphical BS.

he doesn't kill. wow...he only lets thousands of people die all the time and endangers the life of several people just cuz he can't get over the death of his parents who happened to be killed. the batman motto is simple: i don't kill. i just let them go after a while so they can endanger millions of people again so that i can keep my own comic running.

please.

~Sado
P.S.
"those who do not punish evil are willing it to continue"

Sado22
and lastly:
"batman/punisher crossover2" also had batman literally come and save joker's life in the end. non-canon...probably not, because jean made reference to his original meeting with frank at one point in his career and frank made a reference to that also in this crossover. i'm assuming its canon, though i could be wrong.

either way, it does give a prespective. not only did Frank plough through all of joker's games, he had joker wetting his pants as he ran around like a sissy (as usual) only for frank to catch him.
and
hadn't it been for Bruce-i-dont-kill-i-just-hesitate-and-waste-time-and-hold-on-to-obselete-BS-ideas-of-justice-so-that-my-series-can-keep-going-for-another-50-years-Wayne, Frank would have blown his brains out. looking back at that picture joker looked like he was about to cry.

psycho? hah! DC hasn't met Frank.

The Punisher wins 10/10

~Sado

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Sado22
and lastly:
"batman/punisher crossover2" also had batman literally come and save joker's life in the end. non-canon...probably not, because jean made reference to his original meeting with frank at one point in his career and frank made a reference to that also in this crossover. i'm assuming its canon, though i could be wrong.

either way, it does give a prespective. not only did Frank plough through all of joker's games, he had joker wetting his pants as he ran around like a sissy (as usual) only for frank to catch him.
and
hadn't it been for Bruce-i-dont-kill-i-just-hesitate-and-waste-time-and-hold-on-to-obselete-BS-ideas-of-justice-so-that-my-series-can-keep-going-for-another-50-years-Wayne, Frank would have blown his brains out. looking back at that picture joker looked like he was about to cry.

psycho? hah! DC hasn't met Frank.

The Punisher wins 10/10

~Sado

smokin' Theres nothing else you can say...hell I was thinking of giving Joker the majority before that post, you just killed it. You are officially the number 1 Punisher fan.

Closing.....

Obsidian Fury
Originally posted by psycho gundam
how?

Do you want me to list every single time that Joker has played with the Batman instead of killed him when he have had the chance? I can mention a few right away:

- Had Batman chained up above a sharkpool. Even though he had a rifle to put a bullet between Batman's eyes, he instead slowly allowed Batman to lower into the pool while Joker walked away. Batman of course escaped.

- He at one point had Batman pretty much suffer a brain meltdown, but instead of just putting it between his eyes, he started beating him up, playing around and delaying the "game"

- At one point, Joker watched from a screen Batman disarm a bomb that would go out by trigger. Yet, instead of pushing the button, Joker continued his game.

- Heck, there was a time when he thought Batman was dead and Joker actually held a funeral and mourned him no expression

carnage52
Originally posted by psycho gundam
yeah well, that "strength of character" is a front if it stops you from killing a well know non-reformable sociopath for good. i mean, how many times can you put a guy in jail only for him to miraculously escape and endanger thousands again for eternity. frank rather cap him and move on to the next dirtbag.

castle simple realizes all violent criminals are trash so he puts them in the garbage.......batman should take notes. frank doesnt hold a candle to bruce.

Erik-Lensherr
Joker.

Mindset
Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
Do you want me to list every single time that Joker has played with the Batman instead of killed him when he have had the chance? I can mention a few right away:

- Had Batman chained up above a sharkpool. Even though he had a rifle to put a bullet between Batman's eyes, he instead slowly allowed Batman to lower into the pool while Joker walked away. Batman of course escaped.

- He at one point had Batman pretty much suffer a brain meltdown, but instead of just putting it between his eyes, he started beating him up, playing around and delaying the "game"

- At one point, Joker watched from a screen Batman disarm a bomb that would go out by trigger. Yet, instead of pushing the button, Joker continued his game.

- Heck, there was a time when he thought Batman was dead and Joker actually held a funeral and mourned him no expression

Yea, and how many times could Batman have killed Joker?

Obsidian Fury
Originally posted by Mindset
Yea, and how many times could Batman have killed Joker?

Roughly just as many. You need to consider the fact, however, that Joker often has his "upper hand" before Batman has his. Batman often catches Joker AFTER having broken out of Joker's games.

Sado22
which is why Batman has no real depth. he's a guy who won't kill against guys who won't kill him. how many times has batman been tied up and NOT shot because at that precise moment the badguy decided to go into an indepth narration of his life........long enough for batman to cut through ropes or figure out the code. F that.

the only time Punisher got that kind of luxury was when Bullseye could have sniped him but instead lured him out.....and even that was because he had just seen punisher strapped to a electric chair and had been pronounced as dead officially by the authorities.


laughing
Frank rules.

~Sado

llagrok
Originally posted by Sado22
which is why Batman has no real depth. he's a guy who won't kill against guys who won't kill him. how many times has batman been tied up and NOT shot because at that precise moment the badguy decided to go into an indepth narration of his life........long enough for batman to cut through ropes or figure out the code. F that.

the only time Punisher got that kind of luxury was when Bullseye could have sniped him but instead lured him out.....and even that was because he had just seen punisher strapped to a electric chair and had been pronounced as dead officially by the authorities.


laughing
Frank rules.

~Sado

You're claiming Batman has no depth because he will NOT kill a guy?

Mindset
Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
Roughly just as many. You need to consider the fact, however, that Joker often has his "upper hand" before Batman has his. Batman often catches Joker AFTER having broken out of Joker's games.

Yea, that seems to happen when you're the pursuer...

Erik-Lensherr
Originally posted by llagrok
You're claiming Batman has no depth because he will NOT kill a guy?

crylaugh

Erik-Lensherr
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
smokin' Theres nothing else you can say...hell I was thinking of giving Joker the majority before that post, you just killed it. You are officially the number 1 Punisher fan.

Closing.....

Yes, I'm sure you would have given Joker the majority over the Punisher, but that overly convincing and well though post completly changed your mind.

You're even more transparent than Quanchi. Which says a lot laughing out loud

K3VIL
Originally posted by carnage52
thats what makes castle a lesser charecter.its not about how many guns you pack or how many people you kill its about strength of charecter.and im afraid castle hasnt got shit on batmans strength of charecter.the reason he hasnt killed joker because that would make him as bad as the joker himself it has been stated numerous times.batman could kill joker just by touching his chest with the right finger positions and right amount of pressure exerted.
That may work in a comic book, and not very well.Killing ain't right?
The Joker is sociopath and a mass murderer.One bullet to the head, how many lifes spared and saved?It's better to live with the guilt of killing a mother****er than let him live to take more lifes

Sado22
no. i meant that "not killing" is not what gives him depth. and that was a response to someone on this thread saying that frank has no character cuz he just kills.
also, i don't find batman that complex really. sure his obsession, his chemistry with selina and batman being the real person thing is cool...but that's just what it is: cool. and i've read almost all the arcs for batman. nothing really says "complex" to me. interesting, sure. but complex is too strong a word for him.


laughing
really? as opposed to you posting "hysterical" smilies? or how about you coming here and just writing joker as if that says something? or how about you flaming another poster on the bases that he disagrees with you?

~Sado

Juntai
Originally posted by Sado22
which is why Batman has no real depth. thumb down

-5 cool points.

Sado22
read previous post.
batman=cool, just not complex enough.

~Sado

Starscream M
Originally posted by Sado22
read previous post.
batman=cool, just not complex enough for me to call him "deep". you think Frank is deep?

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Starscream M
you think Frank is deep?

Frank is more realistic.

carnage52
Originally posted by Sado22
read previous post.
batman=cool, just not complex enough.

~Sado if you actually read a few batman comics you would see that bruces psychology>some nutball with guns.

Obsidian Fury
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Frank is more realistic.

So realism is a requirement for deep?

psycho gundam
edit

psycho gundam
Originally posted by psycho gundam
ok, lets be civil guys-

in the four instances you posted here of joker's triumphs over batman, he apparently could have performed the coup de grace on him but as 3 of the 4 sentences it says "instead". that makes me believe that given the opportunity to off the punisher, joker will just leave it to chance since it's their first meeting, you know so they can have further play dates. wink

this batman/joker thing has been going on far too long now, i mean what is the reason for batman's need to keep joker alive? it's not like they're parasitic twins sharing major organs and a blood supply.

but on a side note, frank can and has strapped explosives to his person so, he is willing to take the joker with him if need be. but i doubt it would even get to that point since a gunshot through the heart with a black talon jacket round will tear the life out of the joker....who should be dead 10 times over by now anyway.

Obsidian Fury
Originally posted by psycho gundam
but on a side note, frank can and has strapped explosives to his person so, he is willing to take the joker with him if need be.

So a 0/10 on both parts? stick out tongue

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
So a 0/10 on both parts? stick out tongue no, that just means that when push comes to shove the punisher is more insane than your precious joker is, frank actually wants to die.

Obsidian Fury
My precious Joker? I hate that character. The only villain in Batman I actually like is Riddler.


I just think that at the duration of a week, with Joker's knowledge in him being hunted, chanses are pretty big that he will set the Punisher up. If he decide to toy around like he does with Batman, then the clown is a dead one. If all he wants is to take Punisher out, then the gun-mad maniac will be dead meat.

If all the traps the Joker had made for the Batman was "death traps" rather than "death on delay" traps, then Batman would be a goner ages ago. I do not think Punisher's fate would be any different if the Joker had a week to prepare.

llagrok
Originally posted by psycho gundam
no, that just means that when push comes to shove the punisher is more insane than your precious joker is, frank actually wants to die.

Willingness to die isn't necessarily a sign of insanity....

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
My precious Joker? I hate that character. The only villain in Batman I actually like is Riddler.


I just think that at the duration of a week, with Joker's knowledge in him being hunted, chanses are pretty big that he will set the Punisher up. If he decide to toy around like he does with Batman, then the clown is a dead one. If all he wants is to take Punisher out, then the gun-mad maniac will be dead meat.

If all the traps the Joker had made for the Batman was "death traps" rather than "death on delay" traps, then Batman would be a goner ages ago. I do not think Punisher's fate would be any different if the Joker had a week to prepare. unlike batman, frank doesn't need to sneak in anywhere to get the job done, he can long range a perp without anyone knowing, joker included.

again, not much defense against a barret 50. semi rifle easily obtainable by castle to end this in under a week, a day or two at the most. no elaborate planning just one shot, one kill.

it will be a closed casket funeral for the joker.

Obsidian Fury
Joker's insanity should be taken a consideration as well. He at numerous occasions almost wiped out the entire population of Gotham City. A week should be plenty of time to prepare such a thing. If Punisher falls victim to Joker gas, then Joker wont be the only clown around.

llagrok
Originally posted by psycho gundam
unlike batman, frank doesn't need to sneak in anywhere to get the job done, he can long range a perp without anyone knowing, joker included.

again, not much defense against a barret 50. semi rifle easily obtainable by castle to end this in under a week, a day or two at the most. no elaborate planning just one shot, one kill.

it will be a closed casket funeral for the joker.

This isn't "Can Frank assassinate the Joker in a week" nor is it one-sided prep for him...

psycho gundam
Originally posted by carnage52
frank doesnt hold a candle to bruce. your right, frank would hold a flamethrower. no expression

lol

punisher cleans up the underworld, nothing more and nothing less, and he is damn good at it.

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by psycho gundam
your right, frank would hold a flamethrower. no expression


LOL nice one. thumb up

psycho gundam
Originally posted by llagrok
This isn't "Can Frank assassinate the Joker in a week" nor is it one-sided prep for him... thanks....... i'm just insinuating that the punisher doesn't waist time nor leaves things to chance when mass murderers are involved, a sniper kill makes total sense.
purple and green suits tend to stand out.

Sado22
bruces psychology is nothing when you actually think about it. childhood trauma, fear of bats, embodying his fear. sure, like i said, he's complex. just not complex enough. and seriously, read a punisher comic before you talk. in fact, read "Punisher: born" for starters.

and when you actually think about it:
-Frank, childhood traumas and exposure to violence leading to a frame of mind regarding the world and how evil is always around us. bruce witnessed murder of his parents as a child and sees evil always plaguing his city.
-Frank, driven by personal tragedy and need for vengeance. Bruce driven by personal tragedy and need for vengeance.
-frank is a solitary, anti-hero who fights a never ending battle against evil. bruce is suppossed to be solitary but seems to have just about everyone he needs including a loyal bulter, beds every hot babe in town, has a thing going with Selina and has a son in the new robin. heck, he has a son with Talia as well. solitary? yeah.

on top of that, Frank has known the idea of evil on a more personal front than Bruce, Frank fought in a war that no one believed in but in a world where "up is down and black is white" he chose loyalty to his country instead of walking away from battle. why? because he was a soldier. he continued to fight in a war that he knew he was a tool in, was being used as a front and knew that his life was in the hands of incompetent burnt out war junkies who didn't know anything. is that complex? not really. but between frank's "absurdity of doing the right thing" and bruce's waging a "one-man crusade on war without killing people", i'd pick absurdity of doing right.

Frank also saw suffering more than Bruce, considering that he saw mere teenagers die for a lie, all his comrades died and all his new potential loves also died. heck, he even saw his children get gunned infront of him. and while bruce's parents died a more or less clean death at a time when he couldn't have done something, frank had the luxury of watching his family get gunned down when he could have done something if he had shown up a few seconds earlier and hadn't been shot in the stomach. heck, he even got to see his kids die slowly and painfully. watching your children die slowly and painfully is much more painful.

he knows the absurdity of fighting evil becuase he knows its a never ending battle and that evil is always around. Frank's whole life is absurd because his family was gunned down a week before his "president award" which would have granted him freedom for the rest of his life, he followed Captain America's example to fight for a battle and for justice only to see that all of it was just a BS front and all his comrades died for nothing. he saw his suriving comrades come home and get harrassed by "pacifist" jackasses even though they didn't know the first thing about what they were talking about....on top of that he gets metahumans who have the nerve to lecture him about not using guns just because they can dodge bullets, have supersenses and premonitation and he's got nothing going for him.

he even saw women, whom he realized were fighting for a just cause, get butchered and raped by his comrades who were supposed to be upholding justice. only he never let them rape the girls because he'd shoot them. is that wrong? well, for one they were still his enemies and he did prevent them from going through something worse than death--rape. he made it fast. and he made it painless. is that justice? in a world that where "up is down and black is white", yes that is.

all of these themes are there for batman. he's fighting a never-ending battle (isn't everyother superhero for that matter?), but he's got a relatively plain black/white idea of the world (i was banging my head during infinite crisis when he won't let Diana state her point because *gasp* she killed someone), has seen less tragedy, has seen less suffering and on top of that has several comrades to back his "oneman" crusade.

so if Frank is a nutball with guns then bats is a nutball with a utility belt.


stop making BS assumptions just because you don't really have anything to say. how about you actually raise an issue so i can debate with your points and see if i'm right or wrong. otherwise, take a hike.

and for the record, no one from marvel or DC is deep really.


no. a non-simplified view of the world is. the moment you have idiots in cloaks going around upholding a black-and-white view of the world, then you have something lacking in depth. Bruce is single minded when it comes to the view of the world. so is Frank. but at least, frank acknowledges that "up is down and black is white" and that is why he needs to do what he does. and while bruce has a rich house, every comfort in the world, friends, allies, a string of lovers, a son in the latest robin, a father figure in Alfred....frank has nothing but his "long, lonely night that i've made of my life".

~Sado

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Sado22
bruces psychology is nothing when you actually think about it. childhood trauma, fear of bats, embodying his fear. sure, like i said, he's complex. just not complex enough. and seriously, read a punisher comic before you talk. in fact, read "Punisher: born" for starters.

and when you actually think about it:
-Frank, childhood traumas and exposure to violence leading to a frame of mind regarding the world and how evil is always around us. bruce witnessed murder of his parents as a child and sees evil always plaguing his city.
-Frank, driven by personal tragedy and need for vengeance. Bruce driven by personal tragedy and need for vengeance.
-frank is a solitary, anti-hero who fights a never ending battle against evil. bruce is suppossed to be solitary but seems to have just about everyone he needs including a loyal bulter, beds every hot babe in town, has a thing going with Selina and has a son in the new robin. heck, he has a son with Talia as well. solitary? yeah.

on top of that, Frank has known the idea of evil on a more personal front than Bruce, Frank fought in a war that no one believed in but in a world where "up is down and black is white" he chose loyalty to his country instead of walking away from battle. why? because he was a soldier. he continued to fight in a war that he knew he was a tool in, was being used as a front and knew that his life was in the hands of incompetent burnt out war junkies who didn't know anything. is that complex? not really. but between frank's "absurdity of doing the right thing" and bruce's waging a "one-man crusade on war without killing people", i'd pick absurdity of doing right.

Frank also saw suffering more than Bruce, considering that he saw mere teenagers die for a lie, all his comrades died and all his new potential loves also died. heck, he even saw his children get gunned infront of him. and while bruce's parents died a more or less clean death at a time when he couldn't have done something, frank had the luxury of watching his family get gunned down when he could have done something if he had shown up a few seconds earlier and hadn't been shot in the stomach. heck, he even got to see his kids die slowly and painfully. watching your children die slowly and painfully is much more painful.

he knows the absurdity of fighting evil becuase he knows its a never ending battle and that evil is always around. Frank's whole life is absurd because his family was gunned down a week before his "president award" which would have granted him freedom for the rest of his life, he followed Captain America's example to fight for a battle and for justice only to see that all of it was just a BS front and all his comrades died for nothing. he saw his suriving comrades come home and get harrassed by "pacifist" jackasses even though they didn't know the first thing about what they were talking about....on top of that he gets metahumans who have the nerve to lecture him about not using guns just because they can dodge bullets, have supersenses and premonitation and he's got nothing going for him.

he even saw women, whom he realized were fighting for a just cause, get butchered and raped by his comrades who were supposed to be upholding justice. only he never let them rape the girls because he'd shoot them. is that wrong? well, for one they were still his enemies and he did prevent them from going through something worse than death--rape. he made it fast. and he made it painless. is that justice? in a world that where "up is down and black is white", yes that is.

all of these themes are there for batman. he's fighting a never-ending battle (isn't everyother superhero for that matter?), but he's got a relatively plain black/white idea of the world (i was banging my head during infinite crisis when he won't let Diana state her point because *gasp* she killed someone), has seen less tragedy, has seen less suffering and on top of that has several comrades to back his "oneman" crusade.

so if Frank is a nutball with guns then bats is a nutball with a utility belt.


stop making BS assumptions just because you don't really have anything to say. how about you actually raise an issue so i can debate with your points and see if i'm right or wrong. otherwise, take a hike.

and for the record, no one from marvel or DC is deep really.


no. a non-simplified view of the world is. the moment you have idiots in cloaks going around upholding a black-and-white view of the world, then you have something lacking in depth. Bruce is single minded when it comes to the view of the world. so is Frank. but at least, frank acknowledges that "up is down and black is white" and that is why he needs to do what he does. and while bruce has a rich house, every comfort in the world, friends, allies, a string of lovers, a son in the latest robin, a father figure in Alfred....frank has nothing but his "long, lonely night that i've made of my life".

~Sado

*sniff*

Bouboumaster
Joker get punished.

godking
Originally posted by Sado22
Punisher 10/10

IMO joker and the rest of the gotham guys are so used to just being slapped around a bit and then put into rehab (and then breaking out for the millionth time) that the moment they come across a guy who they realize isn't short of sticking up a m60 up their butts and pulling the trigger, they're just going to wet themselves. the only reason Joker actually seems "dangerous" is because Batman or anyone in Gotham won't do jack but slap him around and put him in arkham from which he'll break out of for being the "this week's special villain" for the next (annoyingly repetitive) story arc. i've read almost every arc of batman because i'm a big fan of his but i've gotta say, it gets highly repititive.

in terms of prep, joker has nothing going for him. maybe "acid pies, squirt guns and laughing gas" are DC's idea of "dangerous psychopath", but that isn't even in Frank's league. you're talking about a guy who has outclassed some of the best heroes and villains in marvel.
in terms of sheer experience and presence of mind, i'll just that he's survived confrontations against captain america and even "overratedrine" even though they were the ones who got the drop on him. he was able to detect spiderman even though spidey was in spying on him and he has gone so far as to foil DD's ambushes on more than one occassions. on top of that, why do people assume that Joker's goons are actually going to be something new for frank? he's taken on entire platoons on his own and has survived the like a million ambushes.

in terms of durability, he's gone in a h2h scenario with tombstone and survived. he's performed surgery on himself, survived fights with someone like The Russian on three occassions (cyborg Russian Ko'd spidey in two blows), fought and beat Barracuda h2h two out of three times (MAX, but still its not like Frank's doing something he hasn't been proven to do before).

in terms of brawling, he's humiliated DD and has gone toe-to-toe with him in h2h. in fact, frank doesn't even want to kill him. in fact, he's gone into a stalemate on more than one occassion...and in their ONLY "to-the-end" fight, Frank was the one who humiliated DD. all the Joker mostly does is runaway from a fight, or call Harley to back him up. and most importantly, Frank crippled Bullseye. and Bullseye>>Joker

there is nothing going for Joker. he's never faced someone who'd kill...and kill is an understatement when you see some of the ways Frank has killed people. the way he's going to tear through Joker is going to be fun to read.

speaking of which: i keep reading batman's "strength of character". for all my love and respect for bats, to me all that's strength of character only if you actually buy DC's half-assed pop philosphical BS.

he doesn't kill. wow...he only lets thousands of people die all the time and endangers the life of several people just cuz he can't get over the death of his parents who happened to be killed. the batman motto is simple: i don't kill. i just let them go after a while so they can endanger millions of people again so that i can keep my own comic running.

please.

~Sado
P.S.
"those who do not punish evil are willing it to continue" When did Frank have everything going his way against Fisk ??. Frank has never been more then at most a minor financial threat to Fisk. DD is Fisks main nemesis not Frank.

And Fisk did'nt beg Doom to kill Frank for him Doom bet Fisk that he could kill Frank Fisk accepted the bet.

Frank has never been the threat to fisk that DD is.

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by godking
When did Frank have everything going his way against Fisk ??. Frank has never been more then at most a minor financial threat to Fisk. DD is Fisks main nemesis not Frank.

And Fisk did'nt beg Doom to kill Frank for him Doom bet Fisk that he could kill Frank Fisk accepted the bet.

Frank has never been the threat to fisk that DD is.

Man you just hate Punisher. I was rebutting your points in the Bullseyes and Punisher thread and you kept on coming out with the same stuff. erm

occultdestroyer
Joker wins 7/10 in THIS scenario.
Too many distractions for Punisher. Joker rules NY. Punisher needs some back-up if he intends to fight Joker in NY, say, Batman.

He can then put a bullet in the head of that SOB.

iceman24567
Joker takes it here.

Mindset
Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Joker rules NY. What?

psycho gundam
too bad joker is in a foreign city, castle's city to be more precise.
there goes joker's supposed "advantage".

lft4ded
Wow, I'm convinced this is Punisher's fight here.

Sado22
in one of the arcs in Punisher vol.2, frank had everything going his way. the only thing that stopped him was that micro was taken hostage. in a one-on-one fight with Fisk, it was Micro who asked frank to stop the fight even thought the fight was heading towards a stalemate.


dah. which is why, Frank has always been made to stay away from fisk. heck, even when locked in the same prison as Fisk and bullseye, the writers made him stay where he was and instead fight the other thugs trying to kill him.


Doom and Fisk were "comparing sizes" actually. and Doom did mention that "a mere man" had jeopardized his operation and has been a "threat" for so long. this i do remember even though i read that volume ages ago. True, farnk isn't his biggest nemesis. but he's far from a "minor problem" also. next to Frank, Fisk's other nemesis IS Frank.


volume 2 says otherwise.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by psycho gundam
spite thread, joker wouldn't last a week in punisher ny.

if punisher had joker as a rogue;

-punisher would violently interrogate thug upon thug to get info on joker.

-freeze his import/export, racketeering, laundering, and drug businesses with explosives and murder.

-kill all his men, no one gets away to alert their boss.

-joker is pulling his green hair out at this point since his business is crumbling and other mob bosses are sending hit squads to re coup their money/territory.

-this all leads up to the grand meeting between frank and the joker,
a physical fight is asinine as is a gun showdown, all joker has left is running away (as usual) but frank will have his HQ soaked in claymores and plastique explosives + he will have an colt assault rifle in his hand, a magnum on his hip, nades and combat knives too. joker dies that day. re-posted cause this owns so hard.

p.s. joker's murders after his first meeting with batman are all batman's fault, bruce is an enabler.

Phantom Zone
I love you guys.... *sniff*

Sado22
hysterical
now i'm gonna find me that crossover so i can post Joker pissing in his pants as he runs away from a REAL crusader against crime.


*group hug*
WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS! NO TIME FOR LOSERS!

~The Invincible Sado-sama
P.S. how dare you bastards not comment on my hugeass post that explains frank?! you call yourself punisher fans?!

jgiant
Punisher 7/10, its his terf, joker doesn't have enough time to get to know the city in and out like frank does, but i would never underestimate the joker he could get a few wins in.

Creshosk
This is interesting:
ISBN 0195140494

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Creshosk
This is interesting:
ISBN 0195140494

Whats the problem now? no expression

Creshosk
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Whats the problem now? no expression Google it. I'm sure you'll find the results... well I thought it was an interesting bit of history. You might find it annoying because it makes you think.

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Creshosk
Google it. I'm sure you'll find the results... well I thought it was an interesting bit of history. You might find it annoying because it makes you think.

Yeah sure im gonna google it..... thumb up no

Creshosk
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah sure im gonna google it..... thumb up no Thanks for proving my point. smile

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Creshosk
Thanks for proving my point. smile

*sigh* googled it, its irrelevant.

Creshosk
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
*sigh* googled it, its irrelevant. I get the feeling you're lying. laughing

Got any proof? smile

Phantom Zone
http://www.alibris.com/search/books/isbn/0195140494

Pointless. erm

Creshosk
laughing

Of course you don't get it, you have to think. As I said, I found it an interesting bit of history. You are probably annoyed because you have to think, which you obviously haven't done yet. smile

Sado22
creshock, stop spamming stick out tongue

brainchild81
Originally posted by jgiant
Punisher 7/10, its his terf, joker doesn't have enough time to get to know the city in and out like frank does, but i would never underestimate the joker he could get a few wins in. I'd say Punisher 1/1. There won't be a second fight. If Joker was in my city, I'd rather Punisher be there to stop him than Batman. W/Frank, I'd only have to worry about Joker until Frank caught up w/him. W/Bruce, I gotta worry everytime Joker breaks out of jail.

Sado22
look who's here! eek!
whats up mane? first time seen you on KMC comic section.

~Sado
P.S. we're actually on the same side for a change laughing

brainchild81
Oh. Then I change my vote. Joker FTW big grin J/k. I started out in comix Vs & then went to VG VS

jalek moye
Punsiher splatters jokers brain against the wall

Wolverine2006
The Joker would win, it doesnt matter if Punisher isnt afraid to kill or not....The Joker would still win, he's too unpredictable.

Joker 8/10

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Wolverine2006
The Joker would win, it doesnt matter if Punisher isnt afraid to kill or not....The Joker would still win, he's too unpredictable.

Joker 8/10 what does that even mean?....

the spot a falling leaf will land on is hard to predict but i can still rake the shit out of it.

Bouboumaster
Originally posted by Wolverine2006
The Joker would win, it doesnt matter if Punisher isnt afraid to kill or not....The Joker would still win, he's too unpredictable.

Joker 8/10

Doesn't change the fact that a bullet in the ass would kill him, and that the Punisher can shoot a crap load of them at him.

TricksterPriest
"Joker's Last Laugh." Look it up. Now. no expression

Joker wins. End of discussion.

brainchild81
Originally posted by psycho gundam
what does that even mean?....

the spot a falling leaf will land on is hard to predict but i can still rake the shit out of it. laughing

Flow01
Faceman Violated Me!

iceman24567
The Joker wins the majority

Sado22
Joker's last laugh against Punisher vol3, punisher vol4, punisher vs dd, all his guest appearances. on top of that, the one time they did actually come across each other.....joker was peeing in his smiley faced panties.

~Sado

brainchild81
Yep begging for Batman to come save him

Sado22
laughing
Batman: *knocks away frank's gun and puts him in a hold* Joker...run for your life
Joker: *screams and runs away like a little sissy*

~Sado

Creshosk
Originally posted by Sado22
laughing
Batman: *knocks away frank's gun and puts him in a hold* Joker...run for your life
Joker: *screams and stabs Batman thus freeing the punisher*
Punisher: *pulls out another firearm and finishes off the Joker. Then turns the gun on Batman for aiding a serial killer*

~Sado
Fixed.

Sado22
*slaps creshock...to the celebration of KMC*

BrianTheBad
Frank wins this at least 8/10

Raoul
so am i going to have to close this thread too?

occultdestroyer
Originally posted by Raoul
so am i going to have to close this thread too?

Why? You keep closing threads with good match-ups.
Instead of this, why not close the 'movie' threads in this forum.
Like the ones with Tom Cruise, King Leonidas and Han Cock BS.

Raoul
Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Why? You keep closing threads with good match-ups.
Instead of this, why not close the 'movie' threads in this forum.
Like the ones with Tom Cruise, King Leonidas and Han Cock BS.

pr1983

i close the ones that require closing for whatever reason that may be...

Erik-Lensherr
Originally posted by Raoul
so am i going to have to close this thread too?

Yeah, since apparently it isn't going anywhere.

Sado22
my bad. but 'twas a joke, mod


modpwnage laughing

Badabing
Originally posted by Sado22
my bad. but 'twas a joke, mod


modpwnage laughing Warned for trolling.


Sado pwnage. durlaugh

TricksterPriest
Originally posted by Sado22
Joker's last laugh against Punisher vol3, punisher vol4, punisher vs dd, all his guest appearances. on top of that, the one time they did actually come across each other.....joker was peeing in his smiley faced panties.

~Sado

This is exactly why I left VG versus. Because of ignorant posters like you who can't be argued with. roll eyes (sarcastic)

IF you had bothered to actually read up on the event I mentioned, instead of just of polluting the forum with your stupidity, then you'd have learned that Joker's Last Laugh was a massive crossover event started by Mr. J.

Joker, in less than a week, poisoned every super villain in the Slab (a meta-human prison), with Joker Venom and unleashed them upon the world. It was a world-wide disaster and was barely contained with the help of Harley Quinn, who turned traitor on the Joker. President Luthor even went so far as to declare the USA at war with the Joker.

no expression And you have the audacity to put Frank ****ing Castle as an intellectual peer of the Joker? thumb down Castle dies. You have absolutely no concept of the nightmare that is Joker with prep time.

brainchild81
No need for the insults, even if it is Sado big grin Castle has evaded and/or beaten Strategic Homeland....errrrr.......SHIELD, police, FBI and other heroes on numerous occasions IIRC. He's extremely resourceful and he's on his home turf. In that crossover(I know crossovers are shit usually and non-canon) Frank was in GOTHAM(Joker's turf) and still made Joker look like a bit<h. Joker's lucky if he doesn't get shot in the head when he steps off the bus to NY. I'm not taking anything away from Joker, but he's going up against a killing machine in the killing machine's house. Somebody should post the pages of JokersLL on his respect thread so I can see 'em. Maybe I'll be as impressed as you were

Battlehammer
joker kill count>>>>>>>>>>Punishers

Starscream M
Originally posted by Battlehammer
joker kill count>>>>>>>>>>Punishers yeah cuz jokers a villain duh

brainchild81
I'm not sure how high either of their bodycounts is. Frank's killed tough guys & hardened criminals whereas Joker's count is made up mostly or entirely of hapless citizens.

Hazsekswthurmom
The Joker enduring fear with his encounter with Frank Castle, is a prime example of the shit writing that occurs in crossovers........Joker doesn't even use the same tactics with opponents that aren't Batman. Who ever uses that example as a way to justify Castle's suppority over the Joker, is in need of a Darwin award.

Wolverine2006
Originally posted by psycho gundam
what does that even mean?....

the spot a falling leaf will land on is hard to predict but i can still rake the shit out of it.

a falling leaf won't brutally kill you, it means that the punisher mainly uses strategy when he is trying to kill someone and there is no strategy when fighting an opponent as unpredictable as the joker...the joker is an evil mastermind and he would outsmart and then kill frank. Joker is on par with Batman and Batman>Punisher anyday.

Sado22
frank killed 2000 (or was it 20000?) people after dropping a nuke. and that was just one issue. and frank's been doing all this for around 30 years and all over america. on top of that, frank's idea of a body count isn't innocent, hapless civilians but crooks, and scums, supervillains and corrupted soldiers and cops.


you never left VG. you were pwned out of it, really. last i remember you're the guy who said that anyone with ki based moves would own anyone with them........and then i brought up Gen, and somebody left the VG area altogether laughing
and the other reason would be your BS flaming instead of actually debating.
and really, you're giving me an example of last laugh as if it really means something. he didn't do any of that alone (as oppossed to frank who almost always kills everyone despite being outnumbered). in fact, joker hardly ever does anything on his own. has thugs and harley to help him out...and the only reason he's gone as far as he has is simple: because bruce hasn't killed him.
as if frank won't be able to destroy america if he had a way to turn supervillains into his alliesno expression


you and your jabs.
joker never ran away from batman in fear now did he? laughing
with you the cool thing is anything you don't agree with, you call it bad writing. and yet you consider frank coming after wolverine (a person he said several times he's not interested in in the least) a 9mm uzi good writing. you also think that even though wolvie was standing over 3 grenades and had them blow right under him, the fact that he was standing the next panel with his clothes intact and not even a scratch on him is also good writing. on top of that, you also happen to ignore the fact that the moron who wrote that issue was doing it to get back at Ennis.

~Sado
P.S. brainchild81, foo, whose side you on?! mad

TricksterPriest
Originally posted by brainchild81
No need for the insults, even if it is Sado big grin Castle has evaded and/or beaten Strategic Homeland....errrrr.......SHIELD, police, FBI and other heroes on numerous occasions IIRC. He's extremely resourceful and he's on his home turf. In that crossover(I know crossovers are shit usually and non-canon) Frank was in GOTHAM(Joker's turf) and still made Joker look like a bit<h. Joker's lucky if he doesn't get shot in the head when he steps off the bus to NY. I'm not taking anything away from Joker, but he's going up against a killing machine in the killing machine's house. Somebody should post the pages of JokersLL on his respect thread so I can see 'em. Maybe I'll be as impressed as you were

http://agent0x7.tripod.com/joker1.html

Check em out. And here's a few other scans from the resident KMC thread.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t399116.html

occultdestroyer
Here's the point:
There is no f***ing way that Punisher will be able to beat the MOST UNPREDICTABLE villain in all of comics history.

The guy's got multiple psychoses. Did you guys see how insane he is in Emperor Joker? There's just NO WAY in your wildest dreams Punisher is winning this fight.
It doesn't matter even if Castle uses nukes and his fancy-pants gadgets, nothing's gonna work.

About the Batman killing Joker, Joker could have killed the guy since their very first encounter. Joker could literally wipe out the population of NYC with a bombardment of Joker Venom.

Raoul
Originally posted by Starscream M
They each have a week to kill each other. Who will succeed?

Location: NYC

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/40/82180-66292-punisher_super.jpg vs http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/8015/218055-32303-joker_super.jpg

joker, he's just too demented...

Originally posted by Sado22
joker never ran away from batman in fear now did he? laughing


awful comparison. erm

batman is the only person in any reality that joker considers to be worthy of his attention... if frank showed up, joker'd laugh in his face...

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
This is exactly why I left VG versus. Because of ignorant posters like you who can't be argued with. roll eyes (sarcastic)

IF you had bothered to actually read up on the event I mentioned, instead of just of polluting the forum with your stupidity, then you'd have learned that Joker's Last Laugh was a massive crossover event started by Mr. J.

Joker, in less than a week, poisoned every super villain in the Slab (a meta-human prison), with Joker Venom and unleashed them upon the world. It was a world-wide disaster and was barely contained with the help of Harley Quinn, who turned traitor on the Joker. President Luthor even went so far as to declare the USA at war with the Joker.

no expression And you have the audacity to put Frank ****ing Castle as an intellectual peer of the Joker? thumb down Castle dies. You have absolutely no concept of the nightmare that is Joker with prep time.

Well Red Skull almost took over the unverse with no help from Mxy, Cap beat him and Puns preps skills on par with Caps.




Originally posted by Raoul
joker, he's just too demented...

I think this is an exaggeration. One of Jokers plots was to kidnap the mayor and there was nothing particulary demented about it. I have seen some of Jokers traps and yes you need to be intelligent to beat them but it seems to be blown out of proportion.

Hell Pun could have killed Kingpin at least twice if it wasnt for outside help and has survived an assasination attempt by Doom.

Originally posted by Raoul

awful comparison. erm

batman is the only person in any reality that joker considers to be worthy of his attention... if frank showed up, joker'd laugh in his face...

Hasn't Azreal beaten the Joker? Hell what was so demented about Joker killing Robin...he sjust beat him over the head with a crowbar...after that Batman simply couldnt have captured him because he couldnt run fast enough...hell Punsiher would have just shot him.

P.S. Yes I have loads of batman comics.

Sado22
MOST UNPREDICTABLE VILLAIN.... laughing
how about you post some real reasons so i can argue with you. otherwise i'd just be trickster.


not really a reason, mod.


funny how nightwing practically beat him to death.
now, joker laughs at pun's face...but pees in his pants when he actually sees him.
you're a mod, start acting like it raoul. and while you're at it, work on your arguments erm

~Sado
P.S. as i've already stated, Jean talked about his encounter with frank in canon comics. punisher later talks about the same encounter later on and joker refers to it as well. seems to me that it was canon. and according to canon, frank could've killed him it hadn't been for bruce.

Raoul
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I think this is an exaggeration. One of Jokers plots was to kidnap the mayor and there was nothing particulary demented about it. I have seen some of Jokers traps and yes you need to be intelligent to beat them but it seems to be blown out of proportion.

Hell Pun could have killed Kingpin at least twice if it wasnt for outside help and has survived an assasination attempt by Doom.

the joker is possibly the most demented character in all of comics, one not so demented plan and he's not up to much?



in a physical fight the joker is weak, nobody would deny that, but to say he isn't insane? you've read the killing joke right? you don't consider that to be pretty messed up?

Originally posted by Sado22
MOST UNPREDICTABLE VILLAIN.... laughing
how about you post some real reasons so i can argue with you.

he is.



that's not my name. and knowing the joker, it is, given his history and the multitude of messed up things he could think up to deal with frank.



pr1983

yes, because your example is one worth following. please.

Obsidian Fury
Originally posted by Sado22
MOST UNPREDICTABLE VILLAIN.... laughing
how about you post some real reasons so i can argue with you. otherwise i'd just be trickster.

Truth humors you?

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Raoul
the joker is possibly the most demented character in all of comics, one not so demented plan and he's not up to much?

Dont even understand that...



Originally posted by Raoul

in a physical fight the joker is weak, nobody would deny that, but to say he isn't insane? you've read the killing joke right? you don't consider that to be pretty messed up?


Of course its messed up that doesn't prove that his plans are too complicated for Frank, hell people have done worse stuff than that in real life. From what I remember the traps werent even that compliacted either, just blowing things out of proportion.

You missed the point we know hes physically weak the point is that the plan wasnt terribly complicated.

Originally posted by Raoul

he is.

Prove it. When Joker kidnapped the mayor the plan was as basic as hell, kidnap the mayor take him some place....wow unpredictable. Frank would have just shot him.


Originally posted by Raoul

that's not my name. and knowing the joker, it is, given his history and the multitude of messed up things he could think up to deal with frank.


Prove it. Just saying he can prove absoultely nothing.

Originally posted by Raoul

yes, because your example is one worth following. please.

Well he did state that Frank manged to go through Jokers traps.....

Raoul
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Dont even understand that...

srug




that's one, what about the multitude of times the joker came up with something that only batman could figure out?

and even when his plans aren't complicated, they're usually incredibly effective...



do you have any other examples?



have you proved frank could counter him?



and his attitude was terrible...

one crossover and suddenly punisher > joker? who wrote it? when was it written?

Juntai
Originally posted by Phantom Zone

Hasn't Azreal beaten the Joker? Azreal > Frank too.

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Raoul
srug

that's one, what about the multitude of times the joker came up with something that only batman could figure out?

Well theres three that includes what he did to Jason and The Killing Joke. The Killing Joke traps were not too complicated.

Originally posted by Raoul

and even when his plans aren't complicated, they're usually incredibly effective...



do you have any other examples?

The three ones I have..
1. kidnapping the mayor
2. killing Jason Todd
3. Killing Joke

and

4. Azrael beating the Joker....now im going to put my hand up here and say I dindt read the issue they just talked about it in there letters, but the Azreal comics ive read Azreal is nowhere near Frank in terms of prep.


Originally posted by Raoul

have you proved frank could counter him?

Well lets see Franks prep skills have been compared to Cap or even seem to be better. Cap has outsmarted people like the Red Skull, theres no way you are proving Joker is smarter than the Red Skull.

He could have killed the Kingpin twice if it wasnt for outside cirumstances

He survived an assasination attempt from Dr Doom

He survivbed a deathtrap with and electrical floor and tear gas. He had no gas mask and he blew out of the trap without explosives.

Dardevil hired Moon Knight, Shang Chi, Black Widow and Dagger to hunt down The Punisher and he had them under survillance and they didnt even know it, something tells me these guys can beat The Joker in prep.

Hell Black Widow on her own was able to outsmart a computer that fooled the whole of SHIELD.

Its in his own city.


Frank Castle is crazy himself and more dangerous than Batman.

Originally posted by Raoul

and his attitude was terrible...

one crossover and suddenly punisher > joker? who wrote it? when was it written?

Ask Sado.

Originally posted by Juntai
Azreal > Frank too.

....dont know what issues you were reading. He had to get Batmans help to find his mother, im pretty sure Frank could do stuff like that without Batmans help.

Raoul
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well theres three that includes what he did to Jason and The Killing Joke. The Killing Joke traps were not too complicated.



The three ones I have..
1. kidnapping the mayor
2. killing Jason Todd
3. Killing Joke

and

4. Azrael beating the Joker....now im going to put my hand up here and say I dindt read the issue they just talked about it in there letters, but the Azreal comics ive read Azreal is nowhere near Frank in terms of prep.

1. ok...
2. Read it again. KILLING JASON TODD. The psychological effect alone is massive.
3. Killing Joke, kidnapping Commissioner Gordon and paralysing Babs...

Sometimes its not how you do something, but what you actually do that counts... If Frank had anyone left that he cared about, Joker would use his prep to hunt them down, and use them as yet another way to mess with Frank.




Batman's prep > frank's, cap's... and even he has trouble with the joker at times... and thats when the joker WANTS to be caught... he wants batman's attention, killing batman is rarely on his agenda...



all impressive, nobody would deny that...



no offence, but if you'd read that much batman, you can't be serious...



batman was smart enough to come up with ways to take down the entire jla... i would love to see frank pull off his own tower of babel...

can frank get the drop and take down the joker? sure, but more often than the joker would him? no, imo, because as well as wanting to be caught by batman, batman is still the only person that can even begin to predict what the joker is up to...

Erik-Lensherr
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well Red Skull almost took over the unverse with no help from Mxy, Cap beat him and Puns preps skills on par with Caps.

no expression

Umm ..

no expression

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Raoul
1. ok...

Ok.

Originally posted by Raoul

2. Read it again. KILLING JASON TODD. The psychological effect alone is massive.


3. Killing Joke, kidnapping Commissioner Gordon and paralysing Babs...


Look this is really quite irritating you're telling me I dont get it when the point im making is simple. He killed Jason Todd and kidnapped and paralysed Babs? Check this out......Frank Castle was in the Vietnam War!!!!!?????? Can you imagine the shit that hes seen, hell did you know one of Wes Cravens major infulences for his horror movies was the vietnam war? Wes Craven has written stuff that makes the Killing Joke look like nothing. So despite its craziness in the grand scheme of things it aint shit at all.


Originally posted by Raoul

Sometimes its not how you do something, but what you actually do that counts... If Frank had anyone left that he cared about, Joker would use his prep to hunt them down, and use them as yet another way to mess with Frank.

1. He doesnt
2. Vietnam War.


Originally posted by Raoul

Batman's prep > frank's, cap's... and even he has trouble with the joker at times... and thats when the joker WANTS to be caught... he wants batman's attention, killing batman is rarely on his agenda...

Again prove it. Franks prep > Captain America. Red Skull has been a universal threat twice. Can you prove to me that Joker is more resourceful than Red skull?



Originally posted by Raoul

no offence, but if you'd read that much batman, you can't be serious...


Quit the patronising.


Originally posted by Raoul

batman was smart enough to come up with ways to take down the entire jla... i would love to see frank pull off his own tower of babel...
can frank get the drop and take down the joker? sure, but more often than the joker would him? no, imo, because as well as wanting to be caught by batman, batman is still the only person that can even begin to predict what the joker is up to...

Hmm well lets see. Already stated that Dr Doom tried to kill Frank. Does Doom have any impressive prep feats? Theres evidence that Frank castle prep is better than Caps and yes I do think that if Cap had the right resources he could take down the JLA, hell hes outsmarted Red Skull before whos been a universal threat twice. Hell Red Skull pawned The Avengers and had thor cleanign his shoes.no expression
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
no expression

Umm ..

no expression

Mxy didnt help The Joker take over the universe. The point I was making is that Joker didnt get those powers on his own accord like Red Skull did

Erik-Lensherr
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Mxy didnt help The Joker take over the universe. The point I was making is that Joker didnt get those powers on his own accord like Red Skull did

Elaborate. Because I can't understand a thing you're saying erm

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Elaborate. Because I can't understand a thing you're saying erm

From my undertsanding.....Mxy went looking for Joker, Joker did not decide he wanted to take over the universe, he just happened to be lucky that Mxy turned up.

Red Skull wanted to take over the universe and set a plan in motion and almost did it. Therefore what Red Skull did is more impressive.

Raoul
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok.



Look this is really quite irritating you're telling me I dont get it when the point im making is simple. He killed Jason Todd and kidnapped and paralysed Babs? Check this out......Frank Castle was in the Vietnam War!!!!!?????? Can you imagine the shit that hes seen, hell did you know one of Wes Cravens major infulences for his horror movies was the vietnam war? Wes Craven has written stuff that makes the Killing Joke look like nothing. So despite its craziness in the grand scheme of things it aint shit at all.




1. He doesnt
2. Vietnam War.




Again prove it. Franks prep > Captain America. Red Skull has been a universal threat twice. Can you prove to me that Joker is more resourceful than Red skull?





Quit the patronising.




Hmm well lets see. Already stated that Dr Doom tried to kill Frank. Does Doom have any impressive prep feats? Theres evidence that Frank castle prep is better than Caps and yes I do think that if Cap had the right resources he could take down the JLA, hell hes outsmarted Red Skull before whos been a universal threat twice. Hell Red Skull pawned The Avengers and had thor cleanign his shoes.no expression


Mxy didnt help The Joker take over the universe. The point I was making is that Joker didnt get those powers on his own accord like Red Skull did

no expression

if i was a lesser man (or bada) i'd cry.

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Raoul
no expression

if i was a lesser man (or bada) i'd cry.

So basically everything I said went completely and utterly over your head?

Erik-Lensherr
Originally posted by Raoul
no expression

if i was a lesser man (or bada) i'd cry.

If you've read his discussion with cresh, why did you get into a debate with him ?

Raoul
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
So basically everything I said went completely and utterly over your head?

oh, no, i read it all... and when the tears were forming, i looked away...

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
If you've read his discussion with cresh, why did you get into a debate with him ?

i don't know... sad

Badabing
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok.



Look this is really quite irritating you're telling me I dont get it when the point im making is simple. He killed Jason Todd and kidnapped and paralysed Babs? Check this out......Frank Castle was in the Vietnam War!!!!!?????? Can you imagine the shit that hes seen, hell did you know one of Wes Cravens major infulences for his horror movies was the vietnam war? Wes Craven has written stuff that makes the Killing Joke look like nothing. So despite its craziness in the grand scheme of things it aint shit at all.




1. He doesnt
2. Vietnam War.




Again prove it. Franks prep > Captain America. Red Skull has been a universal threat twice. Can you prove to me that Joker is more resourceful than Red skull?





Quit the patronising.




Hmm well lets see. Already stated that Dr Doom tried to kill Frank. Does Doom have any impressive prep feats? Theres evidence that Frank castle prep is better than Caps and yes I do think that if Cap had the right resources he could take down the JLA, hell hes outsmarted Red Skull before whos been a universal threat twice. Hell Red Skull pawned The Avengers and had thor cleanign his shoes.no expression


Mxy didnt help The Joker take over the universe. The point I was making is that Joker didnt get those powers on his own accord like Red Skull did Vietnam and Joker and Wes Craven? no expression Seriously, you need to stay on topic. If you think Vietnam and Wes Craven>>>>Joker in inflicting psycho trauma then that's fine. It's not okay to post as if it's fact and everyone else is wrong. But your bombastic claims aren't fact and nothing more than your opinion.

The thread is about Frank. Not you saying Cap thwarted Red Skull and Frank>>>>Cap in prep. That's your opinion, back it up or move on.

You're welcome to your opinion and so is everyone else. Throwing around your own scenarios while discounting what others say is not okay. You freely ask for proof but rarely offer any of your own. This isn't the first time this habit has been brought to your attention. Keep derailing threads and it will result in a warning. If you have a problem with a mod then take it to a PM or another mod. If I see any digs against a mod it will result in a warning.

Originally posted by Sado22
not really a reason, mod.

you're a mod, start acting like it raoul. and while you're at it, work on your arguments erm
Sado, this is the 2nd post I've seen in 2 days where your taking a dig at a mod. If you have a problem with a mod then take it to a PM or another mod. If I see another dig at a mod on a thread it's a warning at the very least.

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by Badabing
Vietnam and Joker and Wes Craven? no expression Seriously, you need to stay on topic. If you think Vietnam and Wes Craven>>>>Joker in inflicting psycho trauma then that's fine. It's not okay to post as if it's fact and everyone else is wrong. But your bombastic claims aren't fact and nothing more than your opinion.

The thread is about Frank. Not you saying Cap thwarted Red Skull and Frank>>>>Cap in prep. That's your opinion, back it up or move on.

You're welcome to your opinion and so is everyone else. Throwing around your own scenarios while discounting what others say is not okay. You freely ask for proof but rarely offer any of your own. This isn't the first time this habit has been brought to your attention. Keep derailing threads and it will result in a waring. If you have a problem with a mod then take it to a PM or another mod. If I see any digs against a mod it will result in a warning.

You know what im not going to argue with you.

Erik-Lensherr
Lulz.

occultdestroyer
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You know what im not going to argue with you.

hysterical

Raoul
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Lulz.

sweet sig, i love that issue...

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by occultdestroyer
hysterical

I should have taken my own advice but im stubborn, im probably going to get banned soon.


Originally posted by Badabing
Vietnam and Joker and Wes Craven? no expression Seriously, you need to stay on topic.

It is on topic. The point is that what Joker did to babs is nothing compared to the horrors that you can experince in war. Wes Craven based some of his idea from horror movies on the Vietnam War is to point out how horrible war can be. Hell if that was a situation in a war they would have probably raped and killed her......

Theres nothing that Joker can do to to Punsiher to distabilize him or shock him.

Originally posted by Badabing

If you think Vietnam and Wes Craven>>>>Joker in inflicting psycho trauma then that's fine. It's not okay to post as if it's fact and everyone else is wrong. But your bombastic claims aren't fact and nothing more than your opinion.

Im well aware of that but maybe if he didnt tell me to 'read it again' I would be more polite.

Originally posted by Badabing

The thread is about Frank. Not you saying Cap thwarted Red Skull and Frank>>>>Cap in prep. .

Um its related to what im talking about. Im pretty sure when people have debates about characters they will bring in another character to illustrate a point.


Originally posted by Badabing

That's your opinion, back it up or move on..

I havent even got that far yet.

Originally posted by Badabing

You're welcome to your opinion and so is everyone else. Throwing around your own scenarios while discounting what others say is not okay. You freely ask for proof but rarely offer any of your own. This isn't the first time this habit has been brought to your attention. Keep derailing threads and it will result in a warning. If you have a problem with a mod then take it to a PM or another mod. If I see any digs against a mod it will result in a warning.

Have you noticed that Roaul hanst provided any proof either, but you came here to give me a hard time?

Why is it im discounting what he saying but hes not discounting what im saying?

occultdestroyer
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I should have taken my own advice but im stubborn, im probably going to get banned soon.


youpi

Badabing
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I should have taken my own advice but im stubborn, im probably going to get banned soon.




It is on topic. The point is that what Joker did to babs is nothing compared to the horrors that you can experince in war. Wes Craven based some of his idea from horror movies on the Vietnam War is to point out how horrible war can be.

Theres nothing that Joker can do to to Punsiher to distabilize him or shock him.



Im well aware of that but maybe if he didnt tell me to 'read it again' I would be more polite.



Um its related to what im talking about. Im pretty sure when people have debates about characters they will bring in another character to illustrate a point.




I havent even got that far yet.



Have you noticed that Roaul hanst provided any proof either, but you came here to give me a hard time? Horrors of war being>>>>Joker is your opinion. It's not fact and it's not part of the thread.

It's your opinion that Joker can't shock or DESTABILIZE him, not fact.

Frank's prep being>>>>>Cap's prep and therefore>>>>Batman's prep is opinion, not fact.

Your entire debate is a nuh uh opinion. You haven't offered one shred of proof. You consistently disregard scans and feats which go against your opinion. It happens in every thread you post.

This isn't about Raoul. It's about you.

You should have taken your own advice. If there's anything else take it to a PM. If you carry on it's a warning. That's fact, not opinion. Thanks.

Bouboumaster
Frank > Joker

Batman vs Joker: Batman disable Joker plan, and throw it in Arkahm.Than, the Joker get out, and begin again to do shit.

Frank Castle would shot one time in the face of the Joker and it would be done. The main difference between Batman and Frank is that Frank is willing to take a Sniper Riffle and shoot the joker from two miles of distance. Boom Headshot. No more Joker.

And what the hell it would change if the Joker is "crazy", "unpredictable" or whatever? Big Pun would just blow the building where he is, if there's any bobby traps inside.

A big 8/10 to Frank.

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