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Standard neutral setting..wat ever..
Who wins?

Well, standard neutral setting means Supes has to cover .5 km before Shaman can perform one action.

If he can't, Shaman.

Speedblitz...ZOOOOOOM!

You know it's coming Mungi...

Originally posted by illadelph12
You know it's coming Mungi...

Shaman won't, waka waka...wait...now I feel sad on the inside?

Shaman speedblitz Supes for the easy win.

Superman.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Well, standard neutral setting means Supes has to cover .5 km before Shaman can perform one action.

If he can't, Shaman.

Even if Superman only cruised along at c (and he's capable of much faster), he'd cover the distance in about 1.6 microseconds.

That's .0000016 seconds.

How long would it take Shaman to perform one action?

Originally posted by Mindset
Shaman speedblitz Supes for the easy win.



Originally posted by batdude123
Superman.

Ignore the fanboy

Originally posted by Soljer
Even if Superman only cruised along at c (and he's capable of much faster), he'd cover the distance in about 1.6 microseconds.

That's .0000016 seconds.

How long would it take Shaman to perform one action?

Depends. Assuming Shaman knows he's going into battle, is primed, and knows his opponent (per forum rules), meaning he knows how fast Supes is (since he gets general knowledge of his opponents, and Supes is a very public superhero), if Shaman can instantly raise shields or slow time at the onset of battle, it's not cut and dry for Supes.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/AlphaFlight12-20.jpg

Originally posted by -K-M-


http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/AlphaFlight12-20.jpg

Hmm...

So assuming Shaman comes into battle primed, as per forum rules, and if he were to go to that action depicted in the scan at the onset of battle, meaning he already had his hand on his medicine bag and was in battle posture before the gun, assuming that scan is accurate in that the effects of the magic powder take effect instantly upon the onset of release, could Shaman release it at the word "Go" (simultaneously with the onset of battle)?

FYI, this was the page prior to the above scan, so yeah it's instant

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/AlphaFlight12-19.jpg

Hmm...

If that is the case, I'd give this to Shaman. If he can stop Supes motion at the onset of battle, simultaneously with the implied "Gun" that starts battle, he should be able to take this.

Superman is faster than thought. Shaman can't win in a straight fight. The speed edge is too great. To beat him, he needs time to pull out his bag of tricks.

If he can actually get some of his uber magic out, then Supes is in deep shit. But he has normal human reactions, AFAIK.

shaman

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Superman is faster than thought. Shaman can't win in a straight fight. The speed edge is too great. To beat him, he needs time to pull out his bag of tricks.

If he can actually get some of his uber magic out, then Supes is in deep shit. But he has normal human reactions, AFAIK.

That ^^

+ even if Shaman manages to get one spell off, it's still not the end for Superman...

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
That ^^

+ even if Shaman manages to get one spell off, it's still not the end for Superman...

Depends on what spell Shaman pumps out actually, as he has some that would be the end

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Superman is faster than thought. Shaman can't win in a straight fight. The speed edge is too great. To beat him, he needs time to pull out his bag of tricks.

If he can actually get some of his uber magic out, then Supes is in deep shit. But he has normal human reactions, AFAIK.

Supes is faster than normal human thought, that's a given. The issue is, if both are primed to go (per forum rules), both can act simultaneously with the onset of battle, meaning Shaman could likely get off one of his instant magic spells as Supes still has to cover .5 km to strike Shaman, though he'll also do that near instantly as well. It's not a matter of speed of thought as much as it is synching up an instantaneous attack simultaneously with the onset of battle. It's assumed all combatants are battle ready and can act once the gun goes off. Supes is primed to speed blitz and cover the .5 km, Shaman is primed to cast an instantaneous spell.

This battle isn't that cut and dry.

"Shush!"

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/scan0014.jpg

I easily acknowledge that if he has a second or two, that he can probably pull something out to stop Superman dead to rights.

But at .5km, and Superman's speed, he won't have a milisecond.

Now, what you need is to show reaction speeds, or speed blitz. durfist

If Superman doesn't know what he's getting into, he might just get wtfpwned.

Originally posted by Soljer
Even if Superman only cruised along at c (and he's capable of much faster), he'd cover the distance in about 1.6 microseconds.

That's .0000016 seconds.

How long would it take Shaman to perform one action? Do we have proof that Supes can reach c in such a short distance? We're only talking about 0.31 of a mile here.

Not saying he hasn't done it. I'd just like some clarification, is all.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Now, what you need is to show reaction speeds, or speed blitz. durfist

Shaman has tagged and beat Northstar and has been with speesters for years so this wouldn't be a shock. However, Superman > Northstar

Originally posted by -K-M-
Shaman has tagged and beat Northstar and has been with speesters for years so this wouldn't be a shock. However, Superman > Northstar northstar is nowhere near as fast as superman

Originally posted by Starscream M
northstar is nowhere near as fast as superman

Read the last part of my post

Originally posted by -K-M-
"Shush!"

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/scan0014.jpg



Shaman can instantly freeze time. If he "Shush"'s simultaneously with the onset of battle it's curtains for Supes. Don't forget, per forum rules, both opponents are primed and ready to go at the implied "gun". Though Supes has his "speedblitz", can he realistically cover .5 km to beat an instantaneous time stop that occurs simultaneously and is synchronized with the onset of battle?

If Shaman acts at the gun, as, per the forum rules, he's perfectly capable of doing because he's primed for battle and there is an implied start buzzer to signify battle commencing; if he acts simultaneously with that buzzer, he likely beats Supes.

Originally posted by Galan007
Do we have proof that Supes can reach c in such a short distance? We're only talking about 0.31 of a mile here.

Not saying he hasn't done it. I'd just like some clarification, is all.

Good point. What is Supes rate of acceleration? Can he achieve ftl speed instantly?

superman isn't going to kill or severely harm mike when caught anyway, he may still be able to let out some magic words.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Shaman can instantly freeze time. If he "Shush"'s simultaneously with the onset of battle it's curtains for Supes. Don't forget, per forum rules, both opponents are primed and ready to go at the implied "gun". Though Supes has his "speedblitz", can he realistically cover .5 km to beat an instantaneous time stop that occurs simultaneously and is synchronized with the onset of battle?

If Shaman acts at the gun, as, per the forum rules, he's perfectly capable of doing because he's primed for battle and there is an implied start buzzer to signify battle commencing; if he acts simultaneously with that buzzer, he likely beats Supes.

So what you're basically asking is whether Superman would be able to cover 0.5 km before someone can say "shush", right? Are you seriously gonna ask that question?

Interesting posts, although let me ask. Why bother with Superman's blitz speed, or debates about his acceleration time (check out when he rescued Lois when he was miles ....not a fraction of a mile ...away, and some perp fired a bullet at her ....the bullet had already left the barrel ...and he managed to travel all that distance, catch the bullet before it hit Lois, and even stuffed cotton wool in her ears so that the sound effect from his movement would not affect her) .....in my opinion Superman is not a character you want to get into a stand-off start with, with only a fraction of a mile between you two.

In my opinion, Superman's speedblitz is a bit like Doom's prep or Strange's sorcery or Hal's willpower .....extremely versatile, and instant game ender. And the dude's respect page has feat upon speed feat that shows half a mile is nothing for the dude (again, using ONE example, think of what he did when Lois was getting shot and he was miles away and the bullet had already left!)

But that is not important.

Why?

Because the two start off facing each other .....looking at each other .....and one of the characters can emit energy from his eyes that is hotter than solar plasma ....

Why even bother flying towards Shaman, when you are already looking at a guy who is ONLY half a mile away from you, and your eyes can reignite dead stars .......

Unless someone will now argue that light does not travel at light speed?

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
So what you're basically asking is whether Superman would be able to cover 0.5 km before someone can say "shush", right? Are you seriously gonna ask that question?

No, I'm asking whether Superman can cover .5 km versus an opponent that could stop time simultaneously with the onset of battle by synchronizing their first action with the implied buzzer.

Hypothetically, lets say the signal that signifies the onset of battle is like the light used to begin a drag race:

http://www.nostalgiadragracing.org/tree%20B.JPG

Essentially, if Shaman says "Shush" at the exact same moment the light changes from yellow to green, not waiting for the light to turn green and then saying "shush". Remember, per forum rules both characters are primed and ready to go. Both would already have their first actions determined since they know they are going into battle and know who their opponent is, as well as knowing the general info on their opponent. If both of them acted simultaneously with the onset of battle, which attack would land first, a .5 km ftl speed blitz, or an instant time freeze?

Originally posted by spetznaz
Interesting posts, although let me ask. Why bother with Superman's blitz speed, or debates about his acceleration time (check out when he rescued Lois when he was miles ....not a fraction of a mile ...away, and some perp fired a bullet at her ....the bullet had already left the barrel ...and he managed to travel all that distance, catch the bullet before it hit Lois, and even stuffed cotton wool in her ears so that the sound effect from his movement would not affect her) .....in my opinion Superman is not a character you want to get into a stand-off start with, with only a fraction of a mile between you two.

In my opinion, Superman's speedblitz is a bit like Doom's prep or Strange's sorcery or Hal's willpower .....extremely versatile, and instant game ender. And the dude's respect page has feat upon speed feat that shows half a mile is nothing for the dude (again, using ONE example, think of what he did when Lois was getting shot and he was miles away and the bullet had already left!)

But that is not important.

Why?

Because the two start off facing each other .....looking at each other .....and one of the characters can emit energy from his eyes that is hotter than solar plasma ....

Why even bother flying towards Shaman, when you are already looking at a guy who is ONLY half a mile away from you, and your eyes can reignite dead stars .......

Unless someone will now argue that light does not travel at light speed?

Question here would be whether Supes flies faster than his heat vision travels.

As I stated above, if both synchronized their attacks with the onset of battle I'm not exactly sure which would trump the other.

The Shaman of Sexy

Do they start out looking at eachother? Or does Superman need like 0.0001 seconds to spot him?

Originally posted by spetznaz
Interesting posts, although let me ask. Why bother with Superman's blitz speed, or debates about his acceleration time (check out when he rescued Lois when he was miles ....not a fraction of a mile ...away, and some perp fired a bullet at her ....the bullet had already left the barrel ...and he managed to travel all that distance, catch the bullet before it hit Lois, and even stuffed cotton wool in her ears so that the sound effect from his movement would not affect her) You missed the point my post at least]. I wasn't saying that Superman is incapable of traveling at ridiculous speeds in a relatively short distance/amount of time. I was just looking for clarification that Superman would in fact be able to reach c in a mere .5km - as the figures he gave, were based off of such.


In general though, I'd tend to agree with this:Originally posted by illadelph12
if both synchronized their attacks with the onset of battle I'm not exactly sure which would trump the other.

Toss a coin. ermm

Originally posted by Galan007
You missed the point my post at least]. I wasn't saying that Superman is incapable of traveling at ridiculous speeds in a relatively short distance/amount of time. I was just looking for clarification that Superman would in fact be able to reach c in a mere .5km - as the figures he gave, were based off of such.


In general though, I'd tend to agree with this:

Is that Dooku in your avatar?

Originally posted by spetznaz
Interesting posts, although let me ask. Why bother with Superman's blitz speed, or debates about his acceleration time (check out when he rescued Lois when he was miles ....not a fraction of a mile ...away, and some perp fired a bullet at her ....the bullet had already left the barrel ...and he managed to travel all that distance, catch the bullet before it hit Lois, and even stuffed cotton wool in her ears so that the sound effect from his movement would not affect her) .....in my opinion Superman is not a character you want to get into a stand-off start with, with only a fraction of a mile between you two.

In my opinion, Superman's speedblitz is a bit like Doom's prep or Strange's sorcery or Hal's willpower .....extremely versatile, and instant game ender. And the dude's respect page has feat upon speed feat that shows half a mile is nothing for the dude (again, using ONE example, think of what he did when Lois was getting shot and he was miles away and the bullet had already left!)

But that is not important.

Why?

Because the two start off facing each other .....looking at each other .....and one of the characters can emit energy from his eyes that is hotter than solar plasma ....

Why even bother flying towards Shaman, when you are already looking at a guy who is ONLY half a mile away from you, and your eyes can reignite dead stars .......

Unless someone will now argue that light does not travel at light speed? nice post, but superman isn't going to kill shaman, his method of incapacitation will be non-lethal and that could give shaman the opening he needs.

Originally posted by Galan007


131

Originally posted by spetznaz
Interesting posts, although let me ask. Why bother with Superman's blitz speed, or debates about his acceleration time (check out when he rescued Lois when he was miles ....not a fraction of a mile ...away, and some perp fired a bullet at her ....the bullet had already left the barrel ...and he managed to travel all that distance, catch the bullet before it hit Lois, and even stuffed cotton wool in her ears so that the sound effect from his movement would not affect her) .....in my opinion Superman is not a character you want to get into a stand-off start with, with only a fraction of a mile between you two.

In my opinion, Superman's speedblitz is a bit like Doom's prep or Strange's sorcery or Hal's willpower .....extremely versatile, and instant game ender. And the dude's respect page has feat upon speed feat that shows half a mile is nothing for the dude (again, using ONE example, think of what he did when Lois was getting shot and he was miles away and the bullet had already left!)

But that is not important.

Why?

Because the two start off facing each other .....looking at each other .....and one of the characters can emit energy from his eyes that is hotter than solar plasma ....

Why even bother flying towards Shaman, when you are already looking at a guy who is ONLY half a mile away from you, and your eyes can reignite dead stars .......

Unless someone will now argue that light does not travel at light speed?

Damn, beat me to it. HV is all that's really needed in this fight. Even when it comes to magic, Superman has dealt with it so many times already with various foes that even that is not any kind of instant win. Unless Shaman is more powerful than skyfather and skyfather+ level characters (Blaze, Dominus, Disciple, etc.) he would still need some heavy artillery spells to handle Supes.

As well as instant is all relative. Instant for a human level character is still far slower than what instant should be for a kryptonian.

When it comes to speed, there is a scan in the respect thread where Superman moves Batman to a different country in mid-sentence before he can finish a thought. .5 kilometers really is nothing compared to that.

Superman for the win.

He has items, which he used to beat an Elder God that was said "and just for a single wretching moment the universe itself seems to blink out of existence, like a soap bubble suddenly impaled on a thorn" .

He definetly has the power

Originally posted by Avlon
Instant for a human level character is still far slower than what instant should be for a kryptonian. Faster and slower levels of instant, eh?




Originally posted by Avlon
When it comes to speed, there is a scan in the respect thread where Superman moves Batman to a different country in mid-sentence before he can finish a thought. .5 kilometers really is nothing compared to that.
But do we know Superman was moving at c within that .5km? That's all I wanted clarification on, personally.

Originally posted by Galan007
Faster and slower levels of instant, eh?

"Instant" is a relative term when it deals with perception and reaction.



Originally posted by Galan007

But do we know Superman was moving at c within that .5km? That's all I wanted clarification on, personally.

Nice 404

There are just too many instances of superman moving at incredible speeds (even in place) to properly gauge anything. All that matters is that he is far far faster than human thought.

Originally posted by Avlon
Instant" is a relative term when it deals with perception and reaction.M'kay, but if they both react instantly - they'd be moving at exactly the same rate, because instant is instant. That's all I'ze saying.

Originally posted by Avlon
Nice 404 evillaugh

Originally posted by Avlon
There are just too many instances of superman moving at incredible speeds (even in place) to properly gauge anything. All that matters is that he is far far faster than human thought. Ohh I know Superman is ridiculously fast. I just wanted to know if the possibility of him moving at c in just .31 of a mile, has been established anywhere - or if it was just an opinion/guesstimate.

Heh! I remember one thread where it was Superman vs. all of Alpha Flight (every member ever) and I was the only one who said AF had a chance and I got called a fanboy. My have the times have changed.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Heh! I remember one thread where it was Superman vs. all of Alpha Flight (every member ever) and I was the only one who said AF had a chance and I got called a fanboy. My have the times have changed. alpha flight DOESN'T stand a chance against Superman...

Originally posted by Starscream M
alpha flight DOESN'T stand a chance against Superman...

Lulz, considering how your knowledge of them is marginal at best your ignorant comment is not suprizing.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Lulz, considering how your knowledge of them is marginal at best your ignorant comment is not suprizing. pwnage! masterbruce cannot find a comeback to erase that.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Lulz, considering how your knowledge of them is marginal at best your ignorant comment is not suprizing. i know enough to know they pose virtually no threat to Superman

Originally posted by Starscream M
i know enough to know they pose virtually no threat to Superman

Really now? Oh do tell, who do you think are the top 5 strongest members of Alpha Flight and give a reason. Some members were going to be used to take over the multi-verse. YES! The multiverse, now who do you think that was?

Let me guess your going to cry foul that I'm asking you a question you have no idea, and you will tell me to stop questioning you in order to divert answering the question. That sum it up?

Originally posted by -K-M-
Really now? Oh do tell, who do you think are the top 5 strongest members of Alpha Flight and give a reason. Some members were going to be used to take over the multi-verse. YES! The multiverse, now who do you think that was?

Let me guess your going to cry foul that I'm asking you a question you have no idea, and you will tell me to stop questioning you in order to divert answering the question. That sum it up?

To be fair, he doesn't know all that much about Superman...

Originally posted by -K-M-
Really now? Oh do tell, who do you think are the top 5 strongest members of Alpha Flight and give a reason. Some members were going to be used to take over the multi-verse. YES! The multiverse, now who do you think that was as well?

Let me guess your going to cry foul that I'm asking you a question you have no idea, and you will tell me to stop questioning you in order to divert answering the question. That sum it up?

I cant name 5, cuz only 2 are impressive:

Shaman: summoning

Sasquatch: tanaraq

Originally posted by Starscream M
I cant name 5, cuz only 2 are impressive:

Shaman: summoning

Sasquatch: tanaraq

Only 2 are impressive? Lulz, Marrina was changing the entire ocean and was shrugging off the blows from the Avengers and could have easily destroyed Atlantis all by herself. Mac was built to take on Galactus and he did, he even defeated a weakened Galactus with one shot when the combined might of Sersi, Hercules, Vindicator, Windshear, Vision, BOX IV, Quasar, Her, etc. failed to do so. Witchfire was the person who was going to be used to take over the multi-verse as said by her father Belasco, shall I continue? Properly shouldn't as all this will fall on deaf ears.

Shaman summoning? what?

Sasquatch is one, and do you think Superman can take Tanaraq?

Originally posted by -K-M-
Only 2 are impressive? Lulz, Marrina was changing the entire ocean and was shrugging off the blows from the Avengers and could have easily destroyed Atlantis all by herself. Mac was built to take on Galactus and he did, he even defeated a weakened Galactus with one shot when the combined might of Sersi, Hercules, Vindicator, Windshear, Vision, BOX IV, Quasar, Her, etc. failed to do so. Witchfire was the person who was going to be used to take over the multi-verse as said by her father Belasco, shall I continue? Properly shouldn't as all this will fall on deaf ears.

Shaman summoning? what?

Sasquatch is one, and do you think Superman can take Tanaraq? I love how you're pulling these one time events to illustrate your point

btw, which Alpha Flight were you referring to? you can't just pick and choose the most powerful members from the various alpha flights.

I don't know if Superman can take Tanaraq, can Tanaraq even fly?

Tanaraq is an elder god. Superman beating him isn't an option for the most part.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I love how you're pulling these one time events to illustrate your point

btw, which Alpha Flight were you referring to? you can't just pick and choose the most powerful members from the various alpha flights.

I don't know if Superman can take Tanaraq, can Tanaraq even fly?

Please...just stop.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I love how you're pulling these one time events to illustrate your point

btw, which Alpha Flight were you referring to? you can't just pick and choose the most powerful members from the various alpha flights.

I don't know if Superman can take Tanaraq, can Tanaraq even fly?

One time events? Uuuuuuh, I suggest you actually you know...read the comics.

Actually I can, as the thread I mentioned was all the members of Alpha Flight EVER and then you came in with your ignorant comment. Which is not a shock as you clearly are putting your foot in your mouth..again. How powerful do you think Windshear is or Snowbird, or BOX IV? Also why is Shaman the top 5 strongest member for..summoning? Did I hear that right?

hahahaha

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Tanaraq is an elder god. Superman beating him isn't an option for the most part. whatever...Tanaraq isn't really part of Alpha Flight anyways.

Originally posted by Starscream M
whatever...Tanaraq isn't really part of Alpha Flight anyways.

He's part of Sasquatch;s powerset, without Tanaraq you don't have Sasquatch. Even Immortal Snowbird can take his form

Facts > you

Originally posted by -K-M-
One time events? Uuuuuuh, I suggest you actually you know...read the comics.

Actually I can, as the thread I mentioned was all the members of Alpha Flight EVER and then you came in with your ignorant comment. Which is not a shock as you clearly are putting your foot in your mouth..again. How powerful do you think Windshear is or Snowbird, or BOX IV? Also why is Shaman the top 5 strongest member for..summoning? Did I hear that right?

hahahaha snowbird can't do jack to superman....whats she gonna do...turn to a sperm whale and ....yeah she's utterly useless

and windshear is not only depowered, but he also goddamn retired...so maybe he can throw his social security checks at superman for pity's sake

and box is dead

Originally posted by -K-M-
Heh! I remember one thread where it was Superman vs. all of Alpha Flight (every member ever ) and I was the only one who said AF had a chance and I got called a fanboy. My have the times have changed.

..........

Originally posted by Starscream M
snowbird can't do jack to superman....whats she gonna do...turn to a sperm whale and ....yeah she's utterly useless

and windshear is not only depowered, but he also goddamn retired...so maybe he can throw his social security checks at superman for pity's sake

Haha, my the ignorance. She can become an Elder God herself and even in mortal form was shrugging off blows from a fully enraged Savage Hulk

Right, because on the vs. forum when we throw people in battles we use them without powers right? That makes perfect sense, right? Are you serious? Like are you really this dumb?

Originally posted by Starscream M
and box is dead

haha luz again, no Madison Jeffries ie. BOX IV the strongest and longest reigning Box is still alive. He has never died EVER.

Batting zero I see

Originally posted by Mindset
.......... oops...didn't see that. thanks for pointing it out.

Originally posted by -K-M-


Right, because on the vs. forum when we throw people in battles we use them without powers right? That makes perfect sense, right? Are you serious? Like are you really this dumb?


ummm forum rules states that we use CURRENT versions, unless stated otherwise.

Originally posted by Starscream M
oops...didn't see that. thanks for pointing it out.

Yeah it's not like I said it multiple times in this thread already

Originally posted by -K-M-

haha luz again, no Madison Jeffries ie. BOX IV the strongest and longest reigning Box is still alive. He has never died EVER.

the threat level of Madison Jeffries to Superman is inconclusive without knowing the battlefield. in any case, he would represent a lowlevel threat at best.

Originally posted by Starscream M
ummm forum rules states that we use CURRENT versions, unless stated otherwise.

Except there are clear exceptions. Hell, the board uses characters who have been killed for many years and by following your logic, we use current versions. So I guess the other person wins automatically as the one character is already dead. Use your head.

Originally posted by Starscream M
the threat level of Madison Jeffries to Superman is inconclusive without knowing the battlefield. in any case, he would represent a lowlevel threat at best.

Except Jeffries could BFR him, and set off an atomic bomb right in front of him (as Jeffries did to Tundra) which would seriously phase Superman. So no again.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Except there are clear exceptions. Hell, the board uses characters who have been killed for many years and by following your logic, we use current versions. So I guess the other person wins as the one character is already dead. Use your head. um most people usually try to specify, at least the longtime posters of KMC...only ones who dont specify are usually the noobs

Originally posted by -K-M-



Except Jeffries could BFR him, and set off an atomic bomb right in front of him (as Jeffries did to Tundra) which would seriously phase Superman. So no again. right....jeffries would set an atomic bomb....which would certainly kill most of his teammates, if not all, including himself...and which SUperman would surely survive

yeah, thats exactly what Jeffries would do

Originally posted by Starscream M
um most people usually try to specify, at least the longtime posters of KMC...only ones who dont specify are usually the noobs

What? seriously what board do you go to?

Even the longest members on this board use characters who have died, and they don't specify the character is alive as it's friggin common sense

Originally posted by Starscream M
right....jeffries would set an atomic bomb....which would certainly kill most of his teammates, if not all, including himself...and which SUperman would surely survive

yeah, thats exactly what Jeffries would do

haha, I suggest you read Alpha Flight as Jeffries did that and not only did he protect himself, but he also protected all of his team mates.

Facts > you

Originally posted by -K-M-
haha, I suggest you read Alpha Flight as Jeffries did that and not only did he protect himself, but he also protected all of his team mates.

Facts > you anywaaaaaays....this is all irrelevant since I made my statement thinking it was SUperman vs the original Alpha Flight...not EVERY member of every Alpha Flight

Originally posted by Starscream M
anywaaaaaays....this is all irrelevant since I made my statement thinking it was SUperman vs the original Alpha Flight...not EVERY member of every Alpha Flight

Even that is questioable as the original lineup was

-Guardian
-Snowbird
-Sasquatch
-Puck
-Talisman(she came later, but she is considered one of the originals)
-Shaman
-Marrina
-Aurora
-Northstar

Originally posted by -K-M-
Even that is questioable as the original lineup was

-Guardian
-Snowbird
-Sasquatch
-Puck
-Talisman(she came later, but she is considered one of the originals)
-Shaman
-Marrina
-Aurora
-Northstar actually the original alpha flight had neither puck nor marrina nor talisman...as they were recruited to the team after its inception

Originally posted by Starscream M
actually the original alpha flight had neither puck nor marrina nor talisman...as they were recruited to the team after its inception

Actually their first mission solo from the government Puck and Marrina joined in Alpha Flight #1 (Vol.1)

Talisman came later as I mentioned, but is still considered one of the originals as said by the team

I suggest you stop talking
---
If you want to go more detailed, First Flight was the original team

Originally posted by -K-M-
Actually their first mission solo from the government Puck and Marrina joined in Alpha Flight #1 (Vol.1)

Talisman came later as I mentioned, but is still considered one of the originals as said by the team

I suggest you stop talking actually, the team I listed was the true original team that debuted in XMen 120. puck, marrina, and talisman were all recruits.

Originally posted by -K-M-

If you want to go more detailed, First Flight was the original team duh, but I figured you didn't mean the wolverine led team when you said original flight

Originally posted by Starscream M
actually, the team I listed was the true original team that debuted in XMen 120. puck, marrina, and talisman were all recruits.

Actually even that's not true as if were using the government Alpha Flight the first lineup was:

Wolverine, Groundhog, Stitch, Saint Elmo, Smart Alec, Snowbird with Mac and Sasquatch (who didn't have his powers yet) as team directors.

When they left the governement and offically became a team that was the lineup as I mentioned and is referenced in the actual comics.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Actually even that's not true as if were using the government Alpha Flight the first lineup was:

Wolverine, Groundhog, Stitch, Saint Elmo, Smart Alec, Snowbird with Mac and Sasquatch (who didn't have his powers yet) as team directors.

When they left the governement and offically became a team that was the lineup as I mentioned and is referenced in the actual comics. nope dood...this team is first Flight, and they debuted in Alpha Flight Special #1 in 1992

the team I mentioned is the original Alpha Flight, which debuted in Xmen 120 in 1979

Originally posted by Starscream M
nope dood...this team is first Flight, and they debuted in Alpha Flight Special #1 in 1992

the team I mentioned is the original Alpha Flight, which debuted in Xmen 120 in 1979

OMG..you seriously have to be kidding me. Alpha Flight special takes places BEFORE UXM #120. The publication date doesn't matter, as the chronology in the story establishes the events in the special predating #120. Do you seriously believe every comic released goes in a linear timeline?

My god you seriously are a troll, no way could anyone be this stupid.

Originally posted by Starscream M
actually, the team I listed was the true original team that debuted in XMen 120. puck, marrina, and talisman were all recruits.

The true original team is the one Wolverine led and is referenced to being Alpha Flight, as you look at the teams Wolverine was in...it's Alpha Flight. So your wrong...again.

Puck and Marrina joined the team when they officially became their own solo team. They wern't even going to call themselves Alpha Flight after the government ditched them, but in their first mission on their own Puck and Marrina were right with them and became original members of the NEW Alpha Flight.

Originally posted by -K-M-
OMG..you seriously have to be kidding me. Alpha Flight special takes places BEFORE UXM #120. The publication date doesn't matter, as the chronology in the story establishes the events in the special predating #120. Do you seriously believe every comic released goes in a linear timeline?
uhhhh I know that the special takes place before UXM...I never said otherwise

my point was that that team is not the original Alpha Flight, rather it was known as first flight.

anyways, I'm not trying to compete with you for the title of KMC's biggest Alpha Flight fan, so I don't want to drag out this semantic nonsense of what the original team is or is not. Even by the team you listed, I fail to see how they would be a threat at all to Superman (barring Tanaraq).

Originally posted by Starscream M
uhhhh I know that the special takes place before UXM...I never said otherwise

my point was that that team is not the original Alpha Flight, rather it was known as first flight.

anyways, I'm not trying to compete with you for the title of KMC's biggest Alpha Flight fan, so I don't want to drag out this semantic nonsense of what the original team is or is not. Even by the team you listed, I fail to see how they would be a threat at all to Superman (barring Tanaraq).

Then why did you even mention the publication dates, as the true original team is the one Wolverine elad.

Wrong again, that team is referenced being Alpha Flight even referenced in the handbooks to be such and in the Alpha Flight comics. READ THE COMICS!

Lulz, your an idiot.

Originally posted by -K-M-

Lulz, your an idiot. notice how you keep stooping to insulting me and calling me names? I haven't done the same, cuz I'm mature.

Originally posted by Starscream M
notice how you keep stooping to insulting me and calling me names? I haven't done the same, cuz I'm mature.

Because you keep making ignorant comments, where even other people told you to stop as you clearly are showing you have no idea what your talking about.

Your no worse then a troll

Originally posted by -K-M-
Because you keep making ignorant comments, where even other people told you to stop as you clearly are showing you have no idea what your talking about.

Your no worse then a troll ignorant? cuz I thought superman was overpowering for the alpha flight...my mistake that I didn't read that you meant every member of alpha flight....which I admited was my fault.

anyways, please stop the bashing, its unbecoming of you...

Originally posted by Starscream M
ignorant? cuz I thought superman was overpowering for the alpha flight...my mistake that I didn't read that you meant every member of alpha flight....which I admited was my fault.

anyways, please stop the bashing, its unbecoming of you...

Originally posted by -K-M-
Then why did you even mention the publication dates, as the true original team is the one Wolverine elad.

Wrong again, that team is referenced being Alpha Flight even referenced in the handbooks to be such and in the Alpha Flight comics. READ THE COMICS!

Reply to this.

Originally posted by llagrok
Reply to this. I mentioned issue numbers to clarify the appearances I was talking about

Originally posted by Starscream M
ignorant? cuz I thought superman was overpowering for the alpha flight...my mistake that I didn't read that you meant every member of alpha flight....which I admited was my fault.

anyways, please stop the bashing, its unbecoming of you...

Lulz when asked about Alpha Flight with it's character and history you literally got everything wrong. So yes your comments were ignorant as they were both incorrent and faulty.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I mentioned issue numbers to clarify the appearances I was talking about

You mentioned issue numbers AND the publication date which was redundent and your basis for brining them up were incorrect

Originally posted by Galan007
You missed the point my post at least]. I wasn't saying that Superman is incapable of traveling at ridiculous speeds in a relatively short distance/amount of time. I was just looking for clarification that Superman would in fact be able to reach c in a mere .5km - as the figures he gave, were based off of such.


In general though, I'd tend to agree with this:

Toss a coin. ermm

When it comes to travelling at C, I really do not know. I have scans of Superman breaking C speed (actually shows him moving faster and faster until he breaks it), and there are a bunch of scans that show the dude travelling much faster than C (although those are based on distance travelled over time taken).

Although travelling at C in an atmosphere would lead to ignition temperatures causing the immediate area vicinity to basicaly detonate .....killing everything within a large radius that is not invulnerable .....as well as other shock effects such as inverse vacuum pressures (during Viet Nam, the shocking effects of napalm were two ....there was the obvious gruesome burning caused by the gel burning on your skin, but there was a secondary effect that is nowadays the most useful effect of MODERN thermobaric weapons - since napalm was banned - .....the effect is that the explosion of the weapon, be it napalm or a modern fuel-air thermobaric is that a vacuum is formed, and as air rushes in to fill the vacuum it has horrible effects on anything living. In some cases, lungs are sucked out of people! So, if Superman was to move at certain high speeds, he would not even have to TOUCH you .....anything within a certain radius would either get FLASH BURNED, or get excessive vacuum pressure effects that are the next thing to hell).

Anyways, the thing is ....when it comes to this thread ....Superman doesn't need to travel at C. Any high speed, even at high supersonic ....without even going to hypersonic, meaning that he doesn't even have to go above mach 4, will make him traverse that distance faster than the fastest human synapse can move! Mach 4 is nothing ....he could move at hundreds of multiples of that at ease.

Also, in terms of THIS thread, whether or not he can break C is moot. It is why i brought up HOW he rescued Lois from a rifle bullet, at almost point blank, that had been fired at her while he was miles away .....and he managed to traverse that distance, catch the bullet before it hit Lois, and even protect her ears with cottonwool.

A rifle bullet moves at an excessively high FPS, and for a guy MILES away to intercept it when it is fired almost point blank says something about his speed.

And it also says that you don't want that guy half a mile away from you, because by the time your brain processes that the match is on, it can easily be over.

Whether or not he reaches C doesn't matter .....a movement at mach 4, mach 40, mach 400, C, or several multiples of C .....all of them will be far faster than the fastest synaptic movement.

Unsafe at any speed.

Originally posted by spetznaz
When it comes to travelling at C, I really do not know. I have scans of Superman breaking C speed (actually shows him moving faster and faster until he breaks it), and there are a bunch of scans that show the dude travelling much faster than C (although those are based on distance travelled over time taken).

Although travelling at C in an atmosphere would lead to ignition temperatures causing the immediate area vicinity to basicaly detonate .....killing everything within a large radius that is not invulnerable .....as well as other shock effects such as inverse vacuum pressures (during Viet Nam, the shocking effects of napalm were two ....there was the obvious gruesome burning caused by the gel burning on your skin, but there was a secondary effect that is nowadays the most useful effect of MODERN thermobaric weapons - since napalm was banned - .....the effect is that the explosion of the weapon, be it napalm or a modern fuel-air thermobaric is that a vacuum is formed, and as air rushes in to fill the vacuum it has horrible effects on anything living. In some cases, lungs are sucked out of people! So, if Superman was to move at certain high speeds, he would not even have to TOUCH you .....anything within a certain radius would either get FLASH BURNED, or get excessive vacuum pressure effects that are the next thing to hell).

Anyways, the thing is ....when it comes to this thread ....Superman doesn't need to travel at C. Any high speed, even at high supersonic ....without even going to hypersonic, meaning that he doesn't even have to go above mach 4, will make him traverse that distance faster than the fastest human synapse can move! Mach 4 is nothing ....he could move at hundreds of multiples of that at ease.

Also, in terms of THIS thread, whether or not he can break C is moot. It is why i brought up HOW he rescued Lois from a rifle bullet, at almost point blank, that had been fired at her while he was miles away .....and he managed to traverse that distance, catch the bullet before it hit Lois, and even protect her ears with cottonwool.

A rifle bullet moves at an excessively high FPS, and for a guy MILES away to intercept it when it is fired almost point blank says something about his speed.

And it also says that you don't want that guy half a mile away from you, because by the time your brain processes that the match is on, it can easily be over.

Whether or not he reaches C doesn't matter .....a movement at mach 4, mach 40, mach 400, C, or several multiples of C .....all of them will be far faster than the fastest synaptic movement.

Unsafe at any speed. i don't think there is an issue of his speed here, imo superman is fast enough to do whatever he wants to do to shaman. my question is: is that enough for shaman to not let out a spell that will turn the tides of the fight since superman has a no-kill, no-maim policy? + superman isn't aware of the vast majority of shaman's magical abilities.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i don't think there is an issue of his speed here, imo superman is fast enough to do whatever he wants to do to shaman. my question is: is that enough for shaman to not let out a spell that will turn the tides of the fight since superman has a no-kill, no-maim policy? + superman isn't aware of the vast majority of shaman's magical abilities.

I'd say yes.

Superman would know that Shaman is a powerful spell-caster. Shama would know that Superman is a ....well ....dude with a long list of various powers.

They both know the basics ....they may not know the extent (scale and scope), but they know the basics.

When it comes to speed, thing is that Superman moving at a fraction's fraction of his top speed would still be moving faster than human synaptic movement (unless Shaman has truly superhuman levels of cognitive perception ....and i am not talking Captain America levels)

Superman could easily close half a mile in no time.

And i believe the rules (KMC) state that a characters are blood-lusted.

Again, are you sure standing 0.5 miles away from a bloodlusted Kryptonian is a prudent course of action?

For Shaman to win he would have to have pre-cast spells ....otherwise, if he is relying on shooting off a quick freeze/die/wilt/turn-into-yoghurt spell the moment the fight starts, he will lose.

The dude travelled many miles far faster than the time it took a rifle bullet to travel a couple feet .....and even had time to take care of Lois' ears before catching the bullet.

Without prepared spells, Shaman can be taken out in at least 3 ways before he even knows what happens.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Except Jeffries could BFR him, and set off an atomic bomb right in front of him (as Jeffries did to Tundra) which would seriously phase Superman. So no again.

I don't know what version of Supes you are using, but if you are going to belittle someone for ignorant comments, try not to make them yourself.

Supes has taken ground zero nukes while in kryptonite.

Please continue withyour debate now.

Originally posted by Avlon
I don't know what version of Supes you are using, but if you are going to belittle someone for ignorant comments, try not to make them yourself.

Supes has taken ground zero nukes while in kryptonite.

Please continue withyour debate now.

He has also been servely rocked from taking an atomic bomb without kyptonite before hence where my comment comes from. So how is that ignorant again? Also didn't another time leave him powerless temporally?

Also no way did I even say it would knock him out, but he definetly would feel it

"Shrush" ftw

Originally posted by spetznaz
I'd say yes.

Superman would know that Shaman is a powerful spell-caster. Shama would know that Superman is a ....well ....dude with a long list of various powers.

They both know the basics ....they may not know the extent (scale and scope), but they know the basics.

When it comes to speed, thing is that Superman moving at a fraction's fraction of his top speed would still be moving faster than human synaptic movement (unless Shaman has truly superhuman levels of cognitive perception ....and i am not talking Captain America levels)

Superman could easily close half a mile in no time.

And i believe the rules (KMC) state that a characters are blood-lusted.

Again, are you sure standing 0.5 miles away from a bloodlusted Kryptonian is a prudent course of action?

For Shaman to win he would have to have pre-cast spells ....otherwise, if he is relying on shooting off a quick freeze/die/wilt/turn-into-yoghurt spell the moment the fight starts, he will lose.

The dude travelled many miles far faster than the time it took a rifle bullet to travel a couple feet .....and even had time to take care of Lois' ears before catching the bullet.

Without prepared spells, Shaman can be taken out in at least 3 ways before he even knows what happens. sure, but the essence of Kal-el is a peace keeper, killing a man in is out of the question for him, and that always applies unless stated otherwise.

and since it's in a neutral, kmc flat battle room there aren't any loose objects for superman to bend around the arms of the shaman to secure them, whats he going to do?.....remember, no kiiilling

Originally posted by -K-M-
He has also been servely rocked from taking an atomic bomb without kyptonite before hence where my comment comes from. So how is that ignorant again? Also didn't another time leave him powerless temporally?

Must be an old comic. I don't remember anything recent that shows such a thing. Especially considering that he's taken far stronger blasts than a nuke without flinching. By forum rules we usually take the higher more recent showings. Even by his average..his tolerance is far higher than a nuke.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Also no way did I even say it would knock him out, but he definetly would feel it

I never said he wouldn't feel it either.

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/7248/supesnukecp8.th.jpghttp://img255.imageshack.us/img255/6388/supesnuke2eb4.th.jpg

Originally posted by Avlon
Must be an old comic. I don't remember anything recent that shows such a thing. Especially considering that he's taken far stronger blasts than a nuke without flinching. By forum rules we usually take the higher more recent showings. Even by his average..his tolerance is far higher than a nuke.

I never said he wouldn't feel it either.

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/7248/supesnukecp8.th.jpghttp://img255.imageshack.us/img255/6388/supesnuke2eb4.th.jpg

I know the one was roughly seven years ago, and the one where he lost his powers may have been during the Bryne years. I wouldn't say his average is far higher then a nuke, as generally most of his oppoents don't drop nukes on him or dish out that kind of level of destruction

Gotcha, so how was my comment ignorant then?

Originally posted by Avlon
Must be an old comic. I don't remember anything recent that shows such a thing. Especially considering that he's taken far stronger blasts than a nuke without flinching. By forum rules we usually take the higher more recent showings. Even by his average..his tolerance is far higher than a nuke.



I never said he wouldn't feel it either.

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/7248/supesnukecp8.th.jpghttp://img255.imageshack.us/img255/6388/supesnuke2eb4.th.jpg When Silver Banshee used her scream power on Superman, he said it was like a nuclear explosion, but remained unaffected.

During Hunter/PRey, Superman and Doomsday were both point blank of an explosion on apokolips equivilent to a million nukes.

He's also taken nukes or equivilent attacks or beyond on several other occasions.


The idea that Superman can smash planets/moons/planetoids with punches when he stops holding back, and a few are still able to stand and trade blows with him toe to toe, tells me they probably hit harder than nukes too.

Originally posted by -K-M-

Gotcha, so how was my comment ignorant then? you're ignorant about superman's capabilities....you severely underestimate him

Originally posted by Juntai
When Silver Banshee used her scream power on Superman, he said it was like a nuclear explosion, but remained unaffected.

During Hunter/PRey, Superman and Doomsday were both point blank of an explosion on apokolips equivilent to a million nukes.

He's also taken nukes or equivilent attacks or beyond on several other occasions.

The idea that Superman can smash planets/moons/planetoids with punches when he stops holding back, and a few are still able to stand and trade blows with him toe to toe, tells me they probably hit harder than nukes too.

I took the Silver Banshee incident more of a hyperbole

Did it actually say that? I don't remember

Like?

Really? you think the likes of Metallo, Sharpenal, the Comedian, etc. can hit harder then nukes?

Originally posted by Starscream M
you're ignorant about superman's capabilities....you severely underestimate him

Except I have more Superman comics then I do Alpha Flight, and in the thread in the top 5 favorite comic characters who do you think was my number one favorite character? Take a wild guess, I know Superman and was asked to even redo his respect thread

Originally posted by -K-M-
I took the Silver Banshee incident more of a hyperbole

Did it actually say that? I don't remember

Like?

Really? you think the likes of Metallo, Sharpenal, the Comedian, etc. can hit harder then nukes? Of course it's hyperbole, since it's a comparison of a scream and a nuke, however the effect is the same, the two got compared in sheer power.

Yes, it said that.

How many instances do you need? I just named several on top of Avalon.

You expect me to take you serious when you say dumb shit like that? I clearly wasn't speaking of the lower spectrum of enemies. Hence why I said- When Supes stops holding back, and ' a few can still stand to toe to toe with him', obviously none of the three are in that category. Man up and debate correctly or concede the point. But don't patronize me.

Originally posted by -K-M-
I know the one was roughly seven years ago, and the one where he lost his powers may have been during the Bryne years. I wouldn't say his average is far higher then a nuke, as generally most of his oppoents don't drop nukes on him or dish out that kind of level of destruction

Gotcha, so how was my comment ignorant then?

Juntai pretty much answered it.


Originally posted by Juntai
When Silver Banshee used her scream power on Superman, he said it was like a nuclear explosion, but remained unaffected.

During Hunter/PRey, Superman and Doomsday were both point blank of an explosion on apokolips equivilent to a million nukes.

He's also taken nukes or equivilent attacks or beyond on several other occasions.


The idea that Superman can smash planets/moons/planetoids with punches when he stops holding back, and a few are still able to stand and trade blows with him toe to toe, tells me they probably hit harder than nukes too.

Add things like double black holes, point blank explosion of the moon, being caught between colliding planets, not even noticing disintegration beams, taking the brunt of a sun eaters explosion (twice, once while nearly depowered), being tossed into a red sun, and taking magical blasts powerful enough to level a few islands (a few examples off the top of my head) and yes...his average is far higher than a nuke.

Originally posted by -K-M-
and in the thread in the top 5 favorite comic characters who do you think was my number one favorite character? prob sasquatch, based on how often you defend him, maybe with moon knight being a close second

Originally posted by Avlon
Juntai pretty much answered it.




Add things like double black holes, point blank explosion of the moon, being caught between colliding planets, not even noticing disintegration beams, taking the brunt of a sun eaters explosion (twice, once while nearly depowered), being tossed into a red sun, and taking magical blasts powerful enough to level a few islands (a few examples off the top of my head) and yes...his average is far higher than a nuke.

Originally posted by Juntai
Of course it's hyperbole, since it's a comparison of a scream and a nuke, however the effect is the same, the two got compared.

Yes, it said that.

How many instances do you need? I just named several on top of Avalon.

You expect me to take you serious when you say dumb shit like that? I clearly wasn't speaking of the lower spectrum of enemies. Hence why I said- When Supes stops holding back, and ' a few can still stand to toe to toe with him', obviously none of the three are in that category. I don't take well to being patronized.

How are the effects the same?

Where did it say? Just so I can check back, not doubting you (I believe you) as this is for my personal research

I have to check back on the Hunter Prey, but other then that those examples arn't that compelling (sans Avlon)

I wasn't patronizing you, but Superman has been taken to people who don't even come close to nuke busting feats. His average taking into account all his apperances is not taking nuke hits and shrugging them off.

Originally posted by Starscream M
prob sasquatch, based on how often you defend him, maybe with moon knight being a close second

Originally posted by Starscream M
prob sasquatch, based on how often you defend him, maybe with moon knight being a close second

Alpha Flight and Moon Knight didn't even make the top 5 (Moon Knight wouldn't even make it in my top 20), I don't even really like Moon Knight as I have said in other threads. I did the thread as he deserves more respect then he gets

Originally posted by Avlon
Add things like double black holes, point blank explosion of the moon, being caught between colliding planets, not even noticing disintegration beams, taking the brunt of a sun eaters explosion (twice, once while nearly depowered), being tossed into a red sun, and taking magical blasts powerful enough to level a few islands (a few examples off the top of my head) and yes...his average is far higher than a nuke.

Those are his high showings, like I could go off on all his low showings which would drastically bring those averages down. I like Superman but his average is not taking nukes on average as he like the Flash is "dumbed" down in majority of his apperances. Like SUperman is a super genius, but how often is that ignored? It's a shame, but it's ignored all the time

Originally posted by -K-M-


I wasn't patronizing you, but Superman has been taken to people who don't even come close to nuke busting feats. His average taking into account all his apperances is not taking nuke hits and shrugging them off. thats cuz theres a heavy amount of PIS involved with Superman, without it, SUperman would pretty much demolish his enemies

also, the average showing of Flash has him tagged by much slower folks, but that doesn't mean Flash's speed isn't incredible, does it?

Originally posted by Starscream M
thats cuz theres a heavy amount of PIS involved with Superman, without it, SUperman would pretty much demolish his enemies

also, the average showing of Flash has him tagged by much slower folks, but that doesn't mean Flash's speed isn't incredible, does it?

Hence why his average is lower then taking a nuke on a regular basis. As I mentioned most of his abilities are ignored like he has sonic abilities, but that's a rare ability he uses. Majority of his apperances make him dumbed down. It's a shame, but his average in his comics don't have him shrugging off nukes all the time.

and you missed the point entirely

Originally posted by -K-M-
Alpha Flight and Moon Knight didn't even make the top 5 (Moon Knight wouldn't even make it in my top 20), I don't even really like Moon Knight as I have said in other threads. I did the thread as he deserves more respect then he gets



Those are his high showings, like I could go off on all his low showings which would drastically bring those averages down. I like Superman but his average is not taking nukes on average as he like the Flash is "dumbed" down in majority of his apperances. Like SUperman is a super genius, but how often is that ignored? It's a shame, but it's ignored all the time

Even with kryptonite and a nuke Superman still had the power and speed to contain every single particle and toss it into the sun.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8977/suntoss7rvab4.th.jpg

Oh, and if we did that to Superman, it can be done to every other character as well, bringing EVERYONE'S average way down.

Seeing as Superman's highest feats are when he stops holding back (perfect for KMC rules) I wouldn't worry too much about it. Plus he has tons and tons of high showings to counteract practically any low showing (most which are pretty old anyway...)

Somehow I don't see Nuke as being the middle ground between black hole and gas station.

Originally posted by Avlon
Even with kryptonite and a nuke Superman still had the power and speed to contain every single particle and toss it into the sun.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8977/suntoss7rvab4.th.jpg

Oh, and if we did that to Superman, it can be done to every other character as well, bringing EVERYONE'S average way down.

Seeing as Superman's highest feats are when he stops holding back (perfect for KMC rules) I wouldn't worry too much about it. Plus he has tons and tons of high showings to counteract practically any low showing (most which are pretty old anyway...)

I know hence why I said his average is not taking nuke blasts. Can he? Yes, as showed but there have been times where he can't and has been hurt by weaker attacks. Generally I go by if he repeats a high showing more then once I go by that. So yeah I definetly think he can take a nuke as I mentioned earlier, but I think he would feel it. Not be knocked out (or close to it), but he would feel it.

Definetly, but even in his recent comics he is dumbed down. In Up, up, and away he was showing his genius intellect which really got me excited as I thought that was a great rendition of Superman. Then shortly after that arc he was getting owned by Livewire

Originally posted by -K-M-

and you missed the point entirely stop patronizing me, goddamn you

Originally posted by -K-M-
I know hence why I said his average is not taking nuke blasts. Can he? Yes, as showed but there have been times where he can't and has been hurt by weaker attacks. Generally I go by if he repeats a high showing more then once I go by that. So yeah I definetly think he can take a nuke as I mentioned earlier, but I think he would feel it. Not be knocked out (or close to it), but he would feel it.

He'll see, hear, and feel it, but nope...not even close to ko'd. My scans show pretty much how useless a nuke is on him.


Originally posted by -K-M-
Definetly, but even in his recent comics he is dumbed down. In Up, up, and away he was showing his genius intellect which really got me excited as I thought that was a great rendition of Superman. Then shortly after that arc he was getting owned by Livewire

High end characters are dumbed down and low end are made to pull miraculous things in order to try and even things out. That's nothing new in the world of storytelling. By forum rules though, we try and cut the fat off the silly and go with what the characters are capable of.

Originally posted by Avlon
He's see, hear, and feel it, but nope...not even close to ko'd. My scans show pretty much how useless a nuke is on him.

High end characters are dumbed down and low end are made to pull miraculous things in order to try and even things out. that's nothing new in the world of storytelling. By forum rules though, we try and cut the fat off the silly and go with what the characters are capable of.

Aye, I agree

Like Flash is a character that is dumbed down way to often (He;s actually my 2nd favorite character too )and yeah I know the rules I just don't agree with the comment with Superman's average is shrugging off nukes as he is dumbed down way more then his high showings though. I don't take incidents like the gas station exploding to serious though.

Lulz @ Superman's average durability being < nuke level.

Shaman from The Authority?

Shaman.

LoL @ "Superman can speed blitz him." How come he didn't speed blitz The Shaggy Man? Or Doomsday? Or Batman? Or Hulk? Or Captain Marvel? Or Thor? Or Magog? Or Ra's Al Ghul? Or The White Martians? Or Prometheus? Or Orion? Or that Starfish thingy? Or 4-D? Or any of the Ultramarines? Or Superman 1M? Or any of Justice League Alpha?

Because Superman RARELY, if EVER, just leaps into battle. That's Thor's job.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
sure, but the essence of Kal-el is a peace keeper, killing a man in is out of the question for him, and that always applies unless stated otherwise.

and since it's in a neutral, kmc flat battle room there aren't any loose objects for superman to bend around the arms of the shaman to secure them, whats he going to do?.....remember, no kiiilling

i) KMC rules stipulate bloodlusted. In comics Superman has been shown bloodlusted a couple of times (e.g. the Superman/Wonderwoman fight), and when he has been depicted as thus the guy has been a beast.

ii) Are you really telling me that a person who can simply crush even the valency bonds in molecules would have to find some object to wrap around Shaman's arms? When he could simply crush those bones to dust?

iii) There are worse things that Superman could do .....worse than killing.

Anyways, semantic run-arounds aside, my point is that Superman would be able to harm Shaman (based on actual feat depictions of speed) before Shaman could even make one move (unless he has Flash like perceptions, meaning he could then be able to get a drop of Kal). My point is also that Superman would close the distance before Shaman could even think (with the only way of getting around that being either having reaction as fast or faster than Kal's, or have some level of battlefield preparation ...e.g. pre-cast spells). My point is also that Superman has at least 3 ways I can think of of taking out Shaman before he can even think, and of those three ways only ONE of them requires Superman to move (in the other 2 he would not even have to lift a finger).

The rest is just semantics.

The only way Shaman would win is by having pre-cast spells, and that is not within KMC guidelines.

Otherwise, per KMC rules, I still maintain that one of the things you do not want to face up against is a bloodlusted Kryptonian standing only half a mile from you.

That is a losing strategy right there! Unless your name is Flash or Thanos or one of a list of people who could do that and win.

Sadly, Shaman's name is not on that list!

...and how many times out of the eleventy bazillion times he has fought has Superman ended a fight against a formidable foe by just speed-blitzing him?

How many?

I've the entire Grant Morrison run of the JLA relaunch. Guess how many times Superman has done it?

Zero. Because he does not just go launching himself into battle - ESPECIALLY against an unfamiliar opponent. Remember when Doomsday was terrorizing that city and Superman flew up on him? Did he speedblitz him? Nope. It was more like..."um, wth is going on?"

He's a good guy. He tries to TALK his opponent out of fighting more often than not.