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Who wins?

I don't care who ended up chosen for the ring, Bruce clearly has more willpower but Hal clearly takes the edge experience wise while Bruce also is by far more creative. Hell my pet rock is more creative than Jordan.

Anyway in shear Ring Power Battle alone Jordan's experience would give him the slight edge needed for him to match Bruce's will and creativity edge but knowing Bruce he's probably already got a few ways to win without the damn ring. So I say he'd pull a contingency plan move and either lose the rings all together or make Hal's ring of little or no help to him at all.

Originally posted by Entity
I don't care who ended up chosen for the ring, Bruce clearly has more willpower but Hal clearly takes the edge experience wise while Bruce also is by far more creative. Hell my pet rock is more creative than Jordan.

Anyway in shear Ring Power Battle alone Jordan's experience would give him the slight edge needed for him to match Bruce's will and creativity edge but knowing Bruce he's probably already got a few ways to win without the damn ring. So I say he'd pull a contingency plan move and either lose the rings all together or make Hal's ring of little or no help to him at all.

pr1983

Originally posted by Raoul
pr1983


Cosigned...

Jordan.

Didn't Bruce have Dick paint an entire safe house yellow and kick Jordan's ass nearly killing him by accident?

True it was All Star and not cannon to mainstream DCU which is what I assume what we're using here but I see no reason the main more experienced Batman couldn't do the same thing or worse.

Especially with the added advantage of a GL ring!

*Edit* Found it
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb158/SonicKMC/ASBR09-013-14.jpg

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb158/SonicKMC/ASBR09-015-16.jpg

Originally posted by Entity
Didn't Bruce have Dick paint an entire safe house yellow and kick Jordan's ass nearly killing him by accident?

True it was All Star and not cannon to mainstream DCU which is what I assume what we're using here but I see no reason the main more experienced Batman couldn't do the same thing or worse.

Especially with the added advantage of a GL ring!

hal isn't that much of a b*tch in mainstream DC.

so no, he couldnt... and the lack of a yellow weakness kind of makes painting the room redundant...

iirc, hal was the first lantern to figure out how to overcome the yellow weakness...

Originally posted by Entity
Didn't Bruce have Dick paint an entire safe house yellow and kick Jordan's ass nearly killing him by accident?


Lulz. Could you be any more of an obvious hater? "Lemme use non canon sources to back up my nonsensical arguments."

Originally posted by Raoul
hal isn't that much of a b*tch in mainstream DC.

so no, he couldnt... and the lack of a yellow weakness kind of makes painting the room redundant...

iirc, hal was the first lantern to figure out how to overcome the yellow weakness...

You recall correctly.

Originally posted by Raoul
hal isn't that much of a b*tch in mainstream DC.

so no, he couldnt... and the lack of a yellow weakness kind of makes painting the room redundant...

iirc, hal was the first lantern to figure out how to overcome the yellow weakness... Still if a rookie Robin could do that just imagine what a veteran Batman could do WITH a lantern ring!

Besides, correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't Bruce already kicked both Guy and Hal's asses in the mainstream DCU too?

Originally posted by Soljer
Lulz. Could you be any more of an obvious hater? "Lemme use non canon sources to back up my nonsensical arguments."



You recall correctly. I never said it was cannon, hell I even expressly admitted it wasn't but my point remains. If a rookie Batman and Robin could do that or just something like that then why in the hell couldn't the real experienced Batman do just as bad or worse to Hal?

And thou I'm not a fan of Jordan its not my taste for the character but rather the jobber effects comics give to characters such as Batman and Superman. In this case it just happens to support my argument as appose to all the times it hinders it more so.

Yall make the rules and according to those rules feats are feats. Correct? I'm sure if I actually took the time to look I'd find mainstream Batman doing just as bad or worse to Hal there too.

Originally posted by Soljer
Lulz. Could you be any more of an obvious hater? "Lemme use non canon sources to back up my nonsensical arguments."



You recall correctly.

thought so...

Originally posted by Entity
Still if a rookie Robin could do that just imagine what a veteran Batman could do WITH a lantern ring!

Besides, correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't Bruce already kicked both Guy and Hal's asses in the mainstream DCU too?

batman has trouble using the ring, he admitted so himself...

gl v4 issue... 9, i think it is, shows exactly WHY bruce isn't the best with a gl ring...

and even if he was decent, nobody tops hal...

Originally posted by Raoul
thought so...



batman has trouble using the ring, he admitted so himself...

gl v4 issue... 9, i think it is, shows exactly WHY bruce isn't the best with a gl ring...

and even if he was decent, nobody tops hal... *cough*except Kyle!

Held a big bang back among many more. Whats Hal did on par with that?

Originally posted by Entity
*cough*except Kyle!

Held a big bang back among many more. Whats Hal did on par with that?

he stopped time. he stood against parallax when other lanterns (including kyle) went down. he came back from the dead, and seconds later he was smacked miles across the moon by sinestro... hal's reaction? a smirk...

kyle might be the torchbearer, and all credit to him, but hal is the king, always has been, always will be...

Originally posted by Raoul
thought so...



batman has trouble using the ring, he admitted so himself...

gl v4 issue... 9, i think it is, shows exactly WHY bruce isn't the best with a gl ring...

and even if he was decent, nobody tops hal...

But what if he has a yellow power ring instead? hehehe

Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
But what if he has a yellow power ring instead? hehehe
Good point

Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
But what if he has a yellow power ring instead? hehehe

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Good point

he was offered one in gl... 16, i think it was...

bruce with a sinestro corps ring would be better than with a gl ring, but as for whether he could take hal, i doubt it...

Bruce, like Green Arrow both have great willpower, however they lack sufficient willpower to get the ring to do much more than simple parlor tricks as per canon storylines.

They would tire out relatively fast and compared to top GL's like Hal, Kyle, John, and Kilowog would get pwned in straight ring battles.

Originally posted by Avlon
Bruce, like Green Arrow both have great willpower, however they lack sufficient willpower to get the ring to do much more than simple parlor tricks as per canon storylines.

They would tire out relatively fast and compared to top GL's like Hal, Kyle, John, and Kilowog would get pwned in straight ring battles.
Are you assuming that Hal has greater willpower than Batman??

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Are you assuming that Hal has greater willpower than Batman??

he has more of the right kind of willpower than bruce does...

Ermm .. Batman's willpower is severly underestimated (though keep in mind, I'm not suggesting he would beat Hal in a ring fight, especially since the OP made it seem like Batman suddenly recives a GL ring and with no training or anything, he gets to fight Hal)

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Ermm .. Batman's willpower is severly underestimated (though keep in mind, I'm not suggesting he would beat Hal in a ring fight, especially since the OP made it seem like Batman suddenly recives a GL ring and with no training or anything, he gets to fight Hal)

its not his willpower being underrated, but it comes down to the type or willpower required to use a gl ring...

Originally posted by Raoul
its not his willpower being underrated, but it comes down to the type or willpower required to use a gl ring...

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_BatmanWill1.jpg

(That's Batman in Spectre's body, with Hal narrating)

i'm not saying he doesn't have willpower, of course he does, but batman has shown his own unwillingness to get over his parents death, which stops him from using the ring...

Originally posted by Raoul
i'm not saying he doesn't have willpower, of course he does, but batman has shown his own unwillingness to get over his parents death, which stops him from using the ring... What the hell does that have to do with his using a ring? Hell if anything that farther supports his willpowers force! It would be easy to just forget, feel sorry for yourself, let it destroy you or not do anything because of something like that but instead he constintly reminds himself and wills himself to overcome what caused it and everything he needs to do that.

That just shows his will to utlize and avenge it. IMO

Originally posted by Entity
What the hell does that have to do with his using a ring? Hell if anything that farther supports his willpowers force! It would be easy to just forget, feel sorry for yourself, let it destroy you or not do anything because of something like that but instead he constintly reminds himself and wills himself to overcome what caused it and everything he needs to do that.

That just shows his will to utlize and avenge it. IMO

please, for the love of god, read the comic... gl v4 issue 9...

Your 'doesn't have the type of willpower required to be a GL' was ambiguous, and could have been interpreted differently.

Anyway, Batman has shown to be able to use a GL ring in the same story you are referencing, and the only reason he stopped is because he 'willingly' didn't want to. I have absolutley no doubt that if Batman truly wants to, and knows he is in a fight, he can use a power ring.

And, as the scan above shows, he has the willpower necessary to do it, and if needed be, I'll show more demonstrations of his willpower.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Your 'doesn't have the type of willpower required to be a GL' was ambiguous, and could have been interpreted differently.

Anyway, Batman has shown to be able to use a GL ring in the same story you are referencing, and the only reason he stopped is because he 'willingly' didn't want to. I have absolutley no doubt that if Batman truly wants to, and knows he is in a fight, he can use a power ring.

And, as the scan above shows, he has the willpower necessary to do it, and if needed be, I'll show more demonstrations of his willpower.

but thats the point, to use the ring more effectively, he would have to move on from what happened to his parents, which he wasn't willing to do... even in a forum fight, i can't see him doing that...

i'm not doubting bruce's will. at all.

green arrow has plenty of willpower, but because its cynical, the ring is difficult for him to use...

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Anyway, Batman has shown to be able to use a GL ring in the same story you are referencing, and the only reason he stopped is because he 'willingly' didn't want to.

Thats exactly what I said.
edit: hope you're talking about the same story ive seen.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Your 'doesn't have the type of willpower required to be a GL' was ambiguous, and could have been interpreted differently.

Anyway, Batman has shown to be able to use a GL ring in the same story you are referencing, and the only reason he stopped is because he 'willingly' didn't want to. I have absolutley no doubt that if Batman truly wants to, and knows he is in a fight, he can use a power ring.

And, as the scan above shows, he has the willpower necessary to do it, and if needed be, I'll show more demonstrations of his willpower. Bruce Wayne's will power is unquestionable, I don't see how they can actually be arguing it. And I've never heard of their being a special kind of will power for Lanterns, just willpower in general and the only type I know of myself.

Now I did see that Ollie couldn't really use one but that was more because what drives him isn't so much willpower as he's so cynical

Originally posted by Raoul
but thats the point, to use the ring more effectively, he would have to move on from what happened to his parents, which he wasn't willing to do... even in a forum fight, i can't see him doing that...

i'm not doubting bruce's will. at all.

green arrow has plenty of willpower, but because its cynical, the ring is difficult for him to use...

Whether he would or not do that is dependant on circumstances and subjective. Why I did get into this thread is because Bruce's willpower is underrated, not his capability to use a GL ring.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Are you assuming that Hal has greater willpower than Batman??

I'm not assuming anything. I'm going by what's on panel. Both Bats and Green Arrow had a tough time wielding the GL ring.

Does that mean that Batman's willpower is inferior to Hal? Not particularly since willpower varies by activity.

When it comes to the ring though, Hal's >>>>>>>>>>> Bruce.

It's similar to when Hal wielded a bunch of yellow rings operated by fear and Sinerstro was still > Hal with 1 ring.

i'm NOT saying bruce doesn't have impressive willpower... this is the second time i've had to say it...

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Whether he would or not do that is dependant on circumstances and subjective. Why I did get into this thread is because Bruce's willpower is underrated, not his capability to use a GL ring.

i'm not underrating it...

Originally posted by Raoul
i'm NOT saying bruce doesn't have impressive willpower... this is the second time i've had to say it...

Well looks like they just dont read enough GL or maybe they do understand you but they just dont agree. *shrug*

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well looks like they just dont read enough GL or maybe they do understand you but they just dont agree. *shrug*

great, be a smart-arse, that's really productive...

Regardless of his will power and ability to even use the damn ring, its been shown, stated and even implemented that Bruce has contingency plans for all the JLA should they go rogue.

Including Hal Jordan!

Why wouldn't he be able to just use any one of those against him?

When Ollie used the ring he could barely muster firing a green arrow, after which he felt like he hadn't slept in days.

Batman's personality was likewise depicted to limit his use of the ring. That doesn't mean he lacks willpower. It does mean he gets stomped by Hal Jordan.

Originally posted by Entity
Regardless of his will power and ability to even use the damn ring, its been shown, stated and even implemented that Bruce has contingency plans for all the JLA should they go rogue.

Including Hal Jordan!

Why wouldn't he be able to just use any one of those against him?

those plans require prep.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
When Ollie used the ring he could barely muster firing a green arrow, after which he felt like he hadn't slept in days.

Batman's personality was likewise depicted to limit his use of the ring. That doesn't mean he lacks willpower. It does mean he gets stomped by Hal Jordan.

thank you...

Originally posted by Raoul
great, be a smart-arse, that's really productive...

Im not being a smart-ass. It seems to me that the people you are debating with have read material needed for this debate but you still told somebody to do some more reading.

You're also telling people that they don't understand what you're saying when it seems they do, they just don't agree. Its some food for thought.





Originally posted by Entity
Regardless of his will power and ability to even use the damn ring, its been shown, stated and even implemented that Bruce has contingency plans for all the JLA should they go rogue.

Including Hal Jordan!

Why wouldn't he be able to just use any one of those against him?

Er he doesn't get any prep, so thats irrelevant.

Originally posted by Raoul
i'm NOT saying bruce doesn't have impressive willpower... this is the second time i've had to say it...



i'm not underrating it...

When did I ever said that you were underestimating it ? But since we're talking about this, like I said, the 'doesn't have the type of willpower required to be a GL' can be interpreted as Batman's willpower not being good enough for him to be a GL, which is wrong.

In fact, the instance you're reffering from when Batman willingly gave up the ring, doesn't really have anything to do with willpower, but with Bruce simply not wanting to put that night where his parents died behind him.

Bruce has the willpower to be a Green Lantern. Period.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Batman's personality was likewise depicted to limit his use of the ring. That doesn't mean he lacks willpower.

Exactly. The problems he displayed in trying to use the ring had nothing to do with willpower, but with his refusal to let go of the night his parents died.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Exactly. The problems he displayed in trying to use the ring had nothing to do with willpower, but with his refusal to let go of the night his parents died. I'm pretty sure that's what Raoul meant in the first place. He's just not as eloquent as me. It's the Irish... peaches
---------------
That also doesn't eliminate the necessity for a certain "kind" of will power it seems to be a good GL as shown by Sinestro's comments to Ollie etc. regardless of whether one considers Batman to have it. Which is pretty much what some people are probably trying to dismiss so that self-surgery = best GL EVARRHEH.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Im not being a smart-ass. It seems to me that the people you are debating with have read material needed for this debate but you still told somebody to do some more reading.

i don't doubt EL's reading of green lantern at all...



not really...

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
When did I ever said that you were underestimating it ? But since we're talking about this, like I said, the 'doesn't have the type of willpower required to be a GL' can be interpreted as Batman's willpower not being good enough for him to be a GL, which is wrong.

In fact, the instance you're reffering from when Batman willingly gave up the ring, doesn't really have anything to do with willpower, but with Bruce simply not wanting to put that night where his parents died behind him.

Bruce has the willpower to be a Green Lantern. Period.

if he's willing to put his parents death behind him and move on, yes. until he does, his will, will be far too cynical to use the ring, imo...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'm pretty sure that's what Raoul meant in the first place. He's just not as eloquent as me. It's the Irish... peaches

yet you can't stay away...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'm pretty sure that's what Raoul meant in the first place. He's just not as eloquent as me. It's the Irish... peaches


Yeah, most likely. But the 'doesn't have the type of willpower' made it seem like he said the difficulties he posed when using the GL ring were due to insufficient willpower, and not the 'getting over that night'-related.

Anyway, I think a page of this discussion is enough