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this is sinestro corps AM

who wins?

Phoenix.

Spite that AM sucked hard.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Spite that AM sucked hard.

Was he retconned to be a punk?

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Was he retconned to be a punk? Compared to his former self yes I suppose.

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Was he retconned to be a punk? Compared to his former self yes I suppose.

WPOTC

White Phoenix.

AMs destruction and absorption of universes was a gradual process and was achieved via machinery.

The White Phoenix would simply amputate his origin from the timeline.

AM via speedblitz

Originally posted by Val-E-Doosh
AM via speedblitz

Do you truly believe a speedblitz would be relevant when dealing with beings of this level?

This is no spider-man or Superman battle we're dealing with here.

The AM has caused more destruction than Phoenix has. But his was on a gradual scale over time. He went from universe to universe gradually destroying them in a wave of power. Impressive in terms of the scale of his destruction, but in terms of a single output of power, he doesnt match up.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Do you truly believe speedblitz are relevant when dealing with beings of this level?

This is no spider-man or Superman battle we're dealing with here.

The AM has caused more destruction than Phoenix has. But his was on a gradual scale over time. He went from universe to universe gradually destroying them in a wave of power. Impressive in terms of the scale of his destruction, but in terms of a single output of power, he doesnt match up.
*pretends to read post*



lol smiley]





lol smiley to seal the "win"]

Yo.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
White Phoenix.

AMs destruction and absorption of universes was a gradual process and was achieved via machinery.

The White Phoenix would simply amputate his origin from the timeline.

theres only 1 real instance of AM using machinery to destroy the various realms, and Barry destroyed it.

other than that, theres no proof he used tech for that task.




Tazer

Originally posted by Val-E-Doosh
*pretends to read post*



lol smiley]





lol smiley to seal the "win"]

Ok. Even i laughed at this.

I'm not that bad am i?

But yeah, Phoenix is more impressive in terms of single power displays.

It would be like letting Jubilee go around from city to city and country to country over a period of time and comparing the destruction caused to what Storm could do in one outburst of power.

Not a great comparison.

AM required machinery to accomplish his destruction and on top of that it was a gradual process.

Ask him to manipulate a universe in the palm of his hand or do something high level like telekinetically amputating a timeline like its physical matter.

Phoenix FTW.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



theres only 1 real instance of AM using machinery to destroy the various realms, and Barry destroyed it.

other than that, theres no proof he used tech for that task.




Tazer

All his destruction of universes up until that point was accomplished with machinery.

And after his machinery was destroyed did he carry on his destructive path across the multiverse or was he soon stopped by the heroes?

AM just seemed like a simple powerhouse to me. Nothing on par with the likes of the IG, the White Phoenix or LT.

Are you implying WCP is anywhere near the power of the LT or IG. If it was classic AM he stomps her hard.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Are you implying WCP is anywhere near the power of the LT or IG. If it was classic AM he stomps her hard.

In terms of on panel feats, the White Phoenix is beyond the IG without a doubt.

Manipulating the entire universe at an atomic level within the palm of your hand is leagues beyond, being a little being within said universe and fighting to gain control of said universe.

Thanos beat down some of the abstracts, he killed half the population of the universe. All impressive feats.

The abstracts are manifestations of concepts within the universe. They and their power derive from the universe, they are components of it. To be able to hold and manipulate all that is the universe within the palm of your hand and manipulate it down to its atoms renders such things irrelevant.

On top of that Phoenix can casually amputate timelines. Forget fighting within a timeline for control of said timeline. Phoenix is on another level. Its like comparing a poster on these forums to a moderator.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
In terms of on panel feats, the White Phoenix is beyond the IG without a doubt.

Manipulating the entire universe at an atomic level within the palm of your hand is leagues beyond, being a little being within said universe and fighting to gain control of said universe.

Thanos beat down some of the abstracts, he killed half the population of the universe. All impressive feats.

The abstracts are manifestations of concepts within the universe. They and their power derive from the universe, they are components of it. To be able to hold and manipulate all that is the universe within the palm of your hand and manipulate it down to its atoms renders such things irrelevant.

On top of that Phoenix can casually amputate timelines. Forget fighting within a timeline for control of said timeline. Phoenix is on another level. Its like comparing a poster on these forums to a moderator.

Has phoenix ever destroyed a universe that was on-panel or in the 616 universe, has she ever pwned multiple abstract level beings. Jamie warped the white crown room if im not mistaken and didnt galactus threaten to erase the PF from the universe.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Has phoenix ever destroyed a universe that was on-panel or in the 616 universe, has she ever pwned multiple abstract level beings. Jamie warped the white crown room if im not mistaken and didnt galactus threaten to erase the PF from the universe.

Alternate reality Phoenixes have destroyed universes on multiple occassions. 616 Phoenix has done something far more impressive and manipulated the universe down to its component atoms. If you can do that then its conclusive that you can destroy it and with ease.

It would be like Nate Grey telekinetically manipulating the atoms of a mountain range and then someone trying to mark him down a rung on the ladder because he's never blown up a mountain range

If you can demonstrate total telekinetic control of something down to the atomic level then it would be fallacious of anyone to argue that said character couldnt destroy it if they wished to. You could atomise it. Scatter the atoms. Restructure them.

As for your point about beating down on multiple abstract level beings, my previous post dealt with that quite clearly. The abstracts are part of the universe, they represent the universes concepts. Most importantly, they and all there power derive from the universe and as such, they are not greater than the universe. Phoenix manipulated at an atomic level all that is the universe, within the palm of her hand and you want to attempt to demean her feat because she hasn't performed the comparatively insignificant feat of fighting battles within the universe she had in her palm?

The White Hot Room is a dimension. It is not the Phoenix. So what if Jamie warped it to teleport Rachel and Psylocke back to reality. What has that got to do with Phoenix?

Galactus stated that he had built the machine to separate the Force from Rachel. So you or any other poster are in no position to say that the machine was doing otherwise. The other cosmics then gathered around and said that separating Rachel from the Phoenix was against the natural order(readers familiar with Phoenix mythology would know that the Grey family are joined to the Phoenix by nature its in their genetics) and as a result of this the stars started to blink out because Galactus was disrupting nature. Galactus was not erasing Phoenix from existence that is a fallacy spread across these forums by a former poster.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Alternate reality Phoenixes have destroyed universes on multiple occassions. 616 Phoenix has done something far more impressive and manipulated the universe down to its component atoms. If you can do that then its conclusive that you can destroy it and with ease.

It would be like Nate Grey telekinetically manipulating the atoms of a mountain range and then someone trying to mark him down a rung on the ladder because he's never blown up a mountain range.

If you can demonstrate total telekinetic control of something down to the atomic level then it would be fallacious of anyone to argue that said character couldnt destroy it if they wished to. You could atomise it. Scatter the atoms. Restructure them.

As for your point about beating down on multiple abstract level beings, my previous post dealt with that quite clearly. The abstracts are part of the universe, they represent the universes concepts. Most importantly, they and all there power derive from the universe and as such, they are not greater than the universe. Phoenix manipulated at an atomic level all that is the universe, within the palm of her hand and you want to attempt to demean her feat because she hasn't performed the comparatively insignificant feat of fighting battles within the universe she had in her palm?

The White Hot Room is a dimension. It is not the Phoenix. So what if Jamie warped it to teleport Rachel and Psylocke back to reality. What has that got to do with Phoenix?

Galactus stated that he had built the machine to separate the Force from Rachel. So you or any other poster are in no position to say that the machine was doing otherwise. The other cosmics then gathered around and said that separating Rachel from the Phoenix was against the natural order(readers familiar with Phoenix mythology would know that the Grey family are joined to the Phoenix by nature its in their genetics) and as a result of this the stars started to blink out because Galactus was disrupting nature. Galactus was not erasing Phoenix from existence that is a fallacy spread across these forums by a former poster.

It has already been proven that she merely tweaked the timeline...there was never anything stated on panel or any offical handbooks that once said it was within her power to destroy or anyway harm the 616 universe. As you said she"manipulated the timeline....quite a big difference as oppose to destroying realities or anything we've seen performed on-panel from the IG.

Everything you have stated might possibly be true on theory...but once again there is no on panel evidence to suggest she is anywhere near Thanos with the IG. The actual PF entity has been displaced from time by a mere starship if im not mistaken. Just accept that there are beings beyond her own.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Ok. Even i laughed at this.

I'm not that bad am i?
Nah, I'm just messing around.

WPotC takes this AM.

CoIE AM destroys her.

Yo.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
All his destruction of universes up until that point was accomplished with machinery.

And after his machinery was destroyed did he carry on his destructive path across the multiverse or was he soon stopped by the heroes?

AM just seemed like a simple powerhouse to me. Nothing on par with the likes of the IG, the White Phoenix or LT.

ok, let me correct myself: beyond the AM Cannon and the Solar Converter (used to slow the vibrations of the Earth protected by the Monitors t-forks, and powerd by his & Harbingers energies), there is no mention OR proof that the AM used any tech to destroy *any* of the universes.

and as for after the Solar Collector was destroyed (in #7) there WERE NO OTHER realms to destroy beyond the 5 (Earths 1, 2, 4, x & s).

and we saw no machinery used when Earth 6 was being consumed, which was the last realm completely done so.

if U can find a weapon or a device credited w/doing so, then plz share.




Tazer

Originally posted by The Great Galen
It has already been proven that she merely tweaked the timeline...there was never anything stated on panel or any offical handbooks that once said it was within her power to destroy or anyway harm the 616 universe. As you said she"manipulated the timeline....quite a big difference as oppose to destroying realities or anything we've seen performed on-panel from the IG.

It was stated on panel that she amputated that timeline telekinetically. The handbooks referenced this event and said she absorbed it into the White Hot Room.

You obviously have not read the scene.

It states quite clearly in the handbooks that Jean Grey can manipulate an atomic structure on a universal scale:

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/2092/xmenmessiahcomplexmutanns6.th.jpg

This was an update on her old bio. What appearance betwen her old bio and her latest depicted Jean manipulating the atoms of the universe?

"Total telekinetic control of all those atoms"

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/25812370174.jpg

There ya go!!!


Originally posted by The Great Galen
Everything you have stated might possibly be true on theory...but once again there is no on panel evidence to suggest she is anywhere near Thanos with the IG. The actual PF entity has been displaced from time by a mere starship if im not mistaken.

On the contrary. There is exactly that. All Thanos did was beat down on some abstracts and fight to gain control over a little universe Phoenix held within her palm and had complete telekinetic control of.

As for your point regarding the Ultraverse crossover, you are illustrating your lack of knowledge regarding the nature of the Phoenix.

The Phoenix Force is many things both within reality and outside reality. But one of those things is the formless, ambient life energies of reality that flow through all life. The Force acts within reality either through a human host or through its Firebird avatar. The Firebird is not the sum total of the Phoenix, it is an avatar. A small representation of it within reality.

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/11/30621401412.jpg

"The Phoenix avatar"

Dont presume that the firebird is the full Phoenix.

The Phoenix Force is the sum of all life force in reality. If all of the Force was summed up in that bird form then how can life exist anywhere else?

Just like, Eternity is the sum of the physical universe. Do you believe the black humanoid figure he appears as is all there is to him?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Do you believe the black humanoid figure he appears as is all there is to him? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/odenx13/joker-1.jpg

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.



ok, let me correct myself: beyond the AM Cannon and the Solar Converter (used to slow the vibrations of the Earth protected by the Monitors t-forks, and powerd by his & Harbingers energies), there is no mention OR proof that the AM used any tech to destroy *any* of the universes.

and as for after the Solar Collector was destroyed (in #7) there WERE NO OTHER realms to destroy beyond the 5 (Earths 1, 2, 4, x & s).

and we saw no machinery used when Earth 6 was being consumed, which was the last realm completely done so.

if U can find a weapon or a device credited w/doing so, then plz share.




Tazer

I'll have to check up on that myself. Been a looooooong time since i read COIE, but i'll def get back to you on that.

Regardless, WP would just amputate his origin out of the timeline.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/odenx13/joker-1.jpg