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Location: the multiverse

Rules: No Realms or interferances whatsoever

oops i meant to say Entropy

Destruction.

Entropy would be an agent of destruction in my opinion.

Endless vs. a Friendless, eh.....gotta go with the Endless on this one.

Originally posted by six6six
Endless vs. a Friendless, eh.....gotta go with the Endless on this one.
So any Endless>Any Friendless?

I had no idea Eternity was so weak.

Originally posted by King Kandy
So any Endless>Any Friendless?

I had no idea Eternity was so weak.

You misunderstood me. I didn't say that the Endless was > The 7 Friendless. What I meant was that in the case of these 2, I give the upperhand to Destruction "from" the Endless. I was stating the fact that one was an Endless & the other being 1 of the 7 Friendless to put it simply. That's all.

-Also, if it really came down to it, even as powerful as Eternity and the Friendless may be, I don't think they could take The Endless out. Especially Destiny.

^Good Point^

Depends on which Entropy. DC one would win, if it was just the end of time vs. Destruction. Other ones.......no idea.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Depends on which Entropy. DC one would win, if it was just the end of time vs. Destruction. Other ones.......no idea.
I'm pretty sure it's Entropy as in Eternity's son.

^ yes it is^

Entropy absolutely stomps, he is as strong as Eternity who is top notch as far as conceptual beings go.

There's no way Entropy is winning this fight.
No Abstract/Cosmic being can destroy The Endless.

As powerful as the Endless are, their weakness seems to be that they're bound by their own rules.

Destiny is perhaps the most powerful, or at least the eldest and most important, but if a less inhibited abstract attacked him I could see him just standing there reading about his own death in his book.

As for Destruction, he's sort of a hippie, no?

how can one conceptual being which, for all intents and purposes, embodies the end of all - defeat another conceptual being which, for all intents and purposes, embodies the end of all?

the same way this infinity > that infinity, i guess. ermm

If Destiny was threatened he wouldn't just stand there and read about it he would destroy the lower abstract. As for the fight I would give it a stalemate. And yes that is the closes thing I can think of to describing Destruction.

Originally posted by kevdude
If Destiny was threatened he wouldn't just stand there and read about it he would destroy the lower abstract.

On what are you basing this assessment?

I can't think of anything to make me picture Destiny roaring into battle.

Originally posted by KK the Great
On what are you basing this assessment?

I can't think of anything to make me picture Destiny roaring into battle.
I believe Destiny has the power to change one's fate.
He can give you an early demise if he so pleases.

Originally posted by KK the Great
On what are you basing this assessment?

I can't think of anything to make me picture Destiny roaring into battle.

When he asked the necropolis Litharge keepers of the dead for Despairs body they laughed and said no, within seconds the entire realm falls in on them, that and he is the real creator of The Basanos, they are incredibly powerful.

Originally posted by kevdude
When he asked the necropolis Litharge keepers of the dead for Despairs body they laughed and said no, within seconds the entire realm falls in on them, that and he is the real creator of The Basanos, they are incredibly powerful.
He created The Basanos??
That deck of cards were able to stalemate Lucifer Morningstar himself! fear

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
That deck of cards were able to stalemate Lucifer Morningstar himself! fear imo, the basanos were a smidge more powerful than lucifer.

Originally posted by Galan007
imo, the basanos were a smidge more powerful than lucifer.
That's what I was thinking.

So Destiny is above Lucifer, or possibly even Michael??

No, that would be ABC logic.
Then again, maybe not.

He allowed Meleos an angel to read some of it and create a living Tarot deck to duplicate Destiny's book, they control probability, making whatever outcome they desire not only likely, but inevitable. I wouldn't say they are more powerful then Lucifer but the chances he has against them is very slim until he has to put all of his effort into getting rid of them and that is something to say indeed..

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
So Destiny is above Lucifer, or possibly even Michael?? in the conceptual sense, yes.

Originally posted by kevdude
He allowed Meleos an angel to read some of it and create a living Tarot deck to duplicate Destiny's book, they control probability, making whatever outcome they desire not only likely, but inevitable. I wouldn't say they are more powerful then Lucifer but the chances he has against them is very slim and that is something to say indeed..

As a general rule, I think "godlike beings" are more dangerous than the gods themselves.

Characters like the Endless are bound by rules and destiny and philosophical musings that don't seem to make sense to outside observers, whereas if you give a mortal being the power of one of them, they can just go buck-wild with it.

Originally posted by Galan007
in the conceptual sense, yes.
But Michael is the demiurge of God's creation?
And Lucifer is God's will?

confused1
Anyway, Destruction wins this fight

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
But Michael is the demiurge of God's creation?
And Lucifer is God's will? yet they are still nothing but stories in destiny's book.

Originally posted by Galan007
yet they are still nothing but stories in destiny's book.
Correct. Even in the Lucifer series, Lucifer was bound by Destiny's book.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Correct. Even in the Lucifer series, Lucifer was bound by Destiny's book. as was michael.

How can Lucifer be bound by Destiny's book if he escaped the plan laid out for him by the Presence? Isn't that the same thing as escaping his Destiny?

Anyway, Entropy will win this. In Brief Lives, Destruction says that no Endless can survive the end of the universe, while Entropy has the power not only to survive it but to bring it about.

Originally posted by King Kandy
How can Lucifer be bound by Destiny's book if he escaped the plan laid out for him by the Presence? Isn't that the same thing as escaping his Destiny? escaping that plan, was his destiny.

Originally posted by Galan007
escaping that plan, was his destiny.
I thought the Presence's plan was the same thing as destiny...

Originally posted by King Kandy
I thought the Presence's plan was the same thing as destiny... i know, but it sounded good lol. in all honesty, we know for a fact that lucifer was, at least at one point, bound by destiny's book - as every action lucifer made whilst visiting destiny, was part of the book's story. so...

Originally posted by Galan007
i know, but it sounded good lol. in all honesty, we know for a fact that lucifer was, at least at one point, bound by destiny's book - as every action lucifer made whilst visiting destiny, was part of the book's story. so...
Yeah but that was before the Presence asked to merge with him right? The Presence wanted to merge with Lucifer because he had gone outside of the Presence and gone beyond him, so clearly something happened in between.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Yeah but that was before the Presence asked to merge with him right? The Presence wanted to merge with Lucifer because he had gone outside of the Presence and gone beyond him, so clearly something happened in between. so one must wonder if a 'new' destiny was fashioned when lucifer did this? or if he's completely dentiny-less? meh, toss a coin lol.

Originally posted by Galan007
so one must wonder if a 'new' destiny was fashioned when lucifer did this? or if he's completely dentiny-less? meh, toss a coin lol.
I don't know. Lucifer has the same free will as God himself so it makes sense that he is without Destiny.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
He created The Basanos??
That deck of cards were able to stalemate Lucifer Morningstar himself! fear

they feared lucifer, they used a under hand tactic which was set into motion way earlier in the series, to use lucifer's own power against himself later.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I don't know. Lucifer has the same free will as God himself so it makes sense that he is without Destiny.

you are correct, in the lucifer series he states that the endless have no authority over him, and death replies that she knows that.

Question: Has Marvel Entropy ever been seen on panel? If so, what issue(s)?

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Question: Has Marvel Entropy ever been seen on panel? If so, what issue(s)?
He was in the first six issues of V3 Captain Marvel.

Thanks friend.

It was v6, not v3. Thanks though.

wow after hearing you guys argue it seems like some of DC's mythology is screwed up

^as in there own^

right?

Originally posted by King Kandy
I don't know. Lucifer has the same free will as God himself so it makes sense that he is without Destiny. but we know he wasn't always without a destiny, as he was bound by teh book at one point at least. meh.

Originally posted by Board Walker
you are correct, in the lucifer series he states that the endless have no authority over him, and death replies that she knows that. no. lucifer speaks of death, and death alone, having no power/hold over him. none of the other endless were ever factored into the equation.

Can we keep talking about entropy and destruction?

Originally posted by Galan007
but we know he wasn't always without a destiny, as he was bound by teh book at one point at least. meh.
Which would mean that he overrode it. Therefore beating his 'Destiny'.

Originally posted by Red Hulk
Which would mean that he overrode it. Therefore beating his 'Destiny'. or was his destiny, to override..... his destiny?

Originally posted by Galan007
or was his destiny, to override..... his destiny? Which would still mean he is now out of Destiny's reach.

And that sounds highly unlikely.

Originally posted by Red Hulk
Which would still mean he is now out of Destiny's reach.

And that sounds highly unlikely. Or highly probable.

Originally posted by Red Hulk
Which would still mean he is now out of Destiny's reach.not arguing that.

Originally posted by Red Hulk
And that sounds highly unlikely. what does?

Originally posted by Mindset
Or highly probable. Is there a rape smily?

Originally posted by Galan007
what does? His destiny to override his destiny.

Wouldn't it still be his destiny as well? He fullfilled it, as opposed to overriding it if that's true.

After all it was The Presence who gave him the letter of passage to leave in the first place, and Lucifer even wondered why his Father would give it to him in the first place and said something along the lines 'only he knows why he gave it to me'. Maybe hes where hes suppose to be after all in his own hell aka the void

Originally posted by Red Hulk
His destiny to override his destiny.

Wouldn't it still be his destiny as well? He fullfilled it, as opposed to overriding it if that's true. what i mean is, until lucifer stepped away from creation, and became 'destiny-less', all of his actions were written in destiny's book . so one could draw a conclusion that the last 'lucifer passage' in teh book was him leaving destiny behind. meaning it was ultimately his destiny, to step away from his destiny.

make any sense?

Originally posted by Galan007
what i mean is, until lucifer stepped away from creation, and became 'destiny-less', all of his actions were written in destiny's book . so one could draw a conclusion that the last 'lucifer passage' in teh book was him leaving destiny behind. meaning it was ultimately his destiny, to step away from his destiny.

make any sense? I realize so, but the words being added earlier wouldn't support so.