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The less you know, the happier you are. Is it possible to consider knowledge a curse?

I think knowledge is a double-edged sword, but not a curse- at least if it is it is worth it.

man, people keep making threads like this

knowledge = power. I don't know where we lost that....

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
I think knowledge is a double-edged sword, but not a curse- at least if it is it is worth it. Ditto.

It hurts to think...lol..now if it was like the matrix just jak in and instantly gain knowledge that would be kewl...although guess you lose the wisdom that goes with experience that way?..lol

Read the sig

Originally posted by inimalist
knowledge = power. I don't know where we lost that....

And yet it so rarely works out that way.

Originally posted by Jack Daniels
It hurts to think...lol..now if it was like the matrix just jak in and instantly gain knowledge that would be kewl...although guess you lose the wisdom that goes with experience that way?..lol
Speaking of the Matrix...red pill or blue pill?

what happens if I take both..lol

Originally posted by Jack Daniels
what happens if I take both..lol

This.

I would like to be a cat

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
And yet it so rarely works out that way. Oh that's just stupid.

Who are the winners in history?

Nelson was an amazing fighter, very intellectual, and won in Waterloo.

Bill Clinton was a very intelligent person politically, he won the 1992 election when the last guy lost in a landslide.

Who always wins arguments over the internet? The deeply intellectuals, or the parrots who sprout out ancient claims?

Knowledge is clearly power.

Knowledge + Money = Power.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Oh that's just stupid.

Who are the winners in history?

Nelson was an amazing fighter, very intellectual, and won in Waterloo.

Bill Clinton was a very intelligent person politically, he won the 1992 election when the last guy lost in a landslide.

Who always wins arguments over the internet? The deeply intellectuals, or the parrots who sprout out ancient claims?

Knowledge is clearly power.

Athens vs Sparta

PhD Candidate vs Man with Club

Rome vs Germanic Tribes

Fundamentalist Christianity vs Science

Extremist Islam vs Stock Brokers

Abraham Lincoln vs John Wilkes Booth


It's fairly stupid to claim that knowledge is power in anything but a very small number of circumstances. Technology is power. Influence is power. Knowledge is exploited by those who want actual power and then cast aside.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Athens vs Sparta

PhD Candidate vs Man with Club

Rome vs Germanic Tribes

Fundamentalist Christianity vs Science

Extremist Islam vs Stock Brokers

Abraham Lincoln vs John Wilkes Booth


It's fairly stupid to claim that knowledge is power in anything but a very small number of circumstances. Technology is power. Influence is power. Knowledge is exploited by those who want actual power and then cast aside. Don't get what Athens and Sparta have to do with it.

PhD candidates aren't necessarily knowledgeable, and it's ridiculous to make that argument since that's not what inimalist is saying. Think of it more as Kung Fu expert vs man with club.

Again, I'm not seeing the point made here. The Holy Roman Empire took control of the germanic tribes because they knew how to fight better. They had more knowledge in the art of fighting.

Science has won everytime against fundamentalist christianity. The only places where creationism is taught are where there is little to no scientists.

Not seeing the connection.

John Wilkes Booth had the knowledge to shoot him in the back of the head. Lincoln had the knowledge that anyone who shot him would be severly punished.

Knowledge is power.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
And yet it so rarely works out that way.

for instance?

Originally posted by inimalist
for instance?

Rome destroyed by barbarians. The well educated Lincoln murdered by Boothe. All credit for Penicillin going to Fleming rather than the people how made it a viable drug. Fundamentalist Christians that formed their beliefs with limited knowledge having far more influence that brilliant intellectuals. A kung-fu master being shot dead by a rookie cop.

Knowledge is much too broad and abstract to make the statement that "knowledge is power" without falling back onto constant demands that knowledge be regarded as something different in each circumstance in order to make it true. You could reasonably say that "superiority is power" but that ends up being somewhat circular.

Originally posted by Becci
The less you know, the happier you are. Is it possible to consider knowledge a curse?

I consider knowledge to be an advantage.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Rome destroyed by barbarians. The well educated Lincoln murdered by Boothe. All credit for Penicillin going to Fleming rather than the people how made it a viable drug. Fundamentalist Christians that formed their beliefs with limited knowledge having far more influence that brilliant intellectuals. A kung-fu master being shot dead by a rookie cop.

Knowledge is much too broad and abstract to make the statement that "knowledge is power" without falling back onto constant demands that knowledge be regarded as something different in each circumstance in order to make it true. You could reasonably say that "superiority is power" but that ends up being somewhat circular.

I don't see how those are examples of knowledge not being power. It seems you have chosen situations where knowledge is moot. If you want, I can go over them individually, but I think you are reading too much into the statement.

I don't think inherent in that statement is knowledge = invincibility...

knowledge opens up options. The more you know, the more you are able to do or articulate, and thus, the more individual power you have. Violence is also a form of power, and largely much more capable of killing people than knowledge. I think using knowledge to have the most violent technology is probably good, but this is extremely tangential from what I was saying. I was speaking of individual emancipation, not about universal guiding princiapls of society and human behaviour....

Originally posted by inimalist
I don't see how those are examples of knowledge not being power. It seems you have chosen situations where knowledge is moot.

If it can be rendered useless again and again it's a fairly poor source of power, IMO.

Originally posted by inimalist
I don't think inherent in that statement is knowledge = invincibility...

No, but the idea that knowledge is power would certainly seem to translate into knowledge gives the ability for success. That seems terribly abstract to me.

I'll use the Flemming example:

His total contribution to Penicillin was finding it making a note and eventually deciding he couldn't use it. Florey and Chain made it into a useful drug that altered the landscape of medicine and war. Flemming, Florey and Chain shared the Nobel Prize but Flemming's particular charisma is why we credit him with giving the world penicillin.

This covers knowledge of how to observe, knowledge of chemistry and knowledge of self-promotion. Any level of power gained by Florey and Chain was completely lost in the face of self-promotion. Knowledge simply covers too many things, IMO, to say that knowledge, in a general sense, gives one power.

Originally posted by inimalist
knowledge opens up options. The more you know, the more you are able to do or articulate, and thus, the more individual power you have. Violence is also a form of power, and largely much more capable of killing people than knowledge. I think using knowledge to have the most violent technology is probably good, but this is extremely tangential from what I was saying.

I was speaking of individual emancipation, not about universal guiding princiapls of society and human behaviour....

I completely missed that. Yes, I would agree that control, power and improvement in one's own life is dependent almost entirely on knowledge.

know enough to succeed in life.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If it can be rendered useless again and again it's a fairly poor source of power, IMO.

i think we are using radically different definitions of the word "power"

at the very least, I was never comparing it to other types of power. I don't think there is much more powerful than fear, so the guy with the most guns obviously has the most power, in a sort of large group/geo-political sense.

Also, how is knowledge even relevant in a situation where someone is shot?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
No, but the idea that knowledge is power would certainly seem to translate into knowledge gives the ability for success. That seems terribly abstract to me.

I'll use the Flemming example:

His total contribution to Penicillin was finding it making a note and eventually deciding he couldn't use it. Florey and Chain made it into a useful drug that altered the landscape of medicine and war. Flemming, Florey and Chain shared the Nobel Prize but Flemming's particular charisma is why we credit him with giving the world penicillin.

This covers knowledge of how to observe, knowledge of chemistry and knowledge of self-promotion. Any level of power gained by Florey and Chain was completely lost in the face of self-promotion. Knowledge simply covers too many things, IMO, to say that knowledge, in a general sense, gives one power.

but again, you are using such radical interpretations of what power is. Knowledge gave them the power to make penicillin.

being more noticed by the public was not really a knowledge thing, unless Flemming like, went out of his way to usurp the notoriety from his colleagues. Even then, access to media outlets and other such things, like his charisma, would probably be much more important than how much knowledge they have.

Did I say somewhere that knowledge is the only form of power? or that all power comes from knowledge?

Knowledge can be a curse and a blessing. Knowledge of practical things, such as wearing sunscreen when going to the beach on a sunny day, mostly serves to bring us happiness or atleast avoid pain.

Knowledge of more esoteric subjects such as philosophy has brought many people much sorrow. We as individuals are expressions of certain values, if we question those values through reasoning and knowledge we can become confused and 'lose our way'. I would think that at the theoretical end of knowledge, one would be content again much like at the beginning of knowledge, but I can only guess at that as I havent gotten there yet .

lol

I don't get it... How can knowing something be worse than ignorance... I don't feel that ignorant bliss is good at all.

I was watching a discussion between Dawkins, Dennett, Harris and Hitchens on youtube, and there was a part where they were talking about whether or not there were some truths they would not publish for fear that the illusion was better for humanity. They all hummed and hawed about how comforting some beliefs are and how people use them and need them.

**** that. All knowledge is beneficial. The knowledge of how to create viral weapons that can eliminate all mankind is of the upmost importance, knowledge of how alone each individual is and how little control they have over the universe and themselves is very important. If it scares you or makes you sad, man, I just don't feel that...

Just not knowing, or not wanting to know, for whatever reason, that is what depresses me.

I think you mean is intelligence a curse, assuming so.

Intelligence brings pain, intelligence brings the realization of how harsh the world is. Intelligence lets you see that you are not the person you tell yourself you are in your mind. That your heroes are not as real as their image says they are.

It tells you the strain around your father's eyes, means he is dying. That despite how much you like your best friend and how funny she is, she's a whore. Knowledge tells you everything is gonna get alot worst, where all your heart tells you it's gonna get better. Intelligence tells you that your dreams are out of reach because of the hand you were given at birth. And intelligence tells you all of your downfalls are your own fault.

It's more of a curse then a blessing.
But i'd rather live outside of the matrix then in it, if you catch my drift.

I think you are confusing nihilistic pessimism with intelligence

seeing the natural order of things as beautiful yet tragic is not difficult

Originally posted by inimalist
How can knowing something be worse than ignorance.

By giving a few moments of happiness or allowing a sense of curiosity.

Originally posted by inimalist
I was watching a discussion between Dawkins, Dennett, Harris and Hitchens on youtube, and there was a part where they were talking about whether or not there were some truths they would not publish for fear that the illusion was better for humanity. They all hummed and hawed about how comforting some beliefs are and how people use them and need them.

Could you send me a link to that? It sounds interesting.

Originally posted by inimalist
**** that. All knowledge is beneficial. The knowledge of how to create viral weapons that can eliminate all mankind is of the upmost importance, knowledge of how alone each individual is and how little control they have over the universe and themselves is very important.

How are either of those things (well mainly the second since I can already see the reason for the firs) beneficial, important or relevant to people?

Originally posted by inimalist
If it scares you or makes you sad, man, I just don't feel that...

Maybe you're just nuts

Originally posted by inimalist
Just not knowing, or not wanting to know, for whatever reason, that is what depresses me.

But as an educated person you must know that no matter how much you know you still will never learn even a fraction of what there is to know.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
By giving a few moments of happiness or allowing a sense of curiosity.

obviously curiosity is important, but, and this is personal of course, it is finding an finality to that curiosity, in understanding another layer of complexity on the world or some esoteric minutia. Its what I live for, so likely that is why I can't fathom something else

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Could you send me a link to that? It sounds interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuyUz2XLp1E

part 1/12, all 12 are on youtube, really good. Found myself wanting to yell at the screen in a bunch of places....

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
How are either of those things (well mainly the second since I can already see the reason for the firs) beneficial, important or relevant to people?

I would argue that any knowledge is valuable in itself...

for practical reasons, I can see why some knowledge could even be detrimental, like if said virus was known by Al Qaeda or another such organization. However, knowing viral warfare might one day save us from viral warfare. If we understand the possible uses and spread of viral weapons, we can prepare to stop them. Its a weird example that I picked as a fairly blatant example of knowledge that might not be good, however, in this case I would say it is the application of such knowledge, and not its existence, that can be bad.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Maybe you're just nuts

almost certainly the case

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
But as an educated person you must know that no matter how much you know you still will never learn even a fraction of what there is to know.

indeed, which is the most highly motivating factor for me

Originally posted by inimalist
I think you are confusing nihilistic pessimism with intelligence

seeing the natural order of things as beautiful yet tragic is not difficult

your right you can see the beauty in the world, but i have encountered more tragedy then beauty .

I don't know maybe it comes down to that we have lead different lives and therefore have not seen the same things.

Originally posted by inimalist
obviously curiosity is important, but, and this is personal of course, it is finding an finality to that curiosity, in understanding another layer of complexity on the world or some esoteric minutia. Its what I live for, so likely that is why I can't fathom something else

Makes sense.

Originally posted by inimalist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuyUz2XLp1E

part 1/12, all 12 are on youtube, really good. Found myself wanting to yell at the screen in a bunch of places....

Thanks.



Originally posted by inimalist
I would argue that any knowledge is valuable in itself...

Knowledge of determinism (your second example) isn't useful. Even if it were absolutely provable it wouldn't be applicable to anything. There is no value in knowledge that cannot be used and has no effect on action.

Originally posted by inimalist
for practical reasons, I can see why some knowledge could even be detrimental, like if said virus was known by Al Qaeda or another such organization. However, knowing viral warfare might one day save us from viral warfare. If we understand the possible uses and spread of viral weapons, we can prepare to stop them. Its a weird example that I picked as a fairly blatant example of knowledge that might not be good, however, in this case I would say it is the application of such knowledge, and not its existence, that can be bad.

Ya, figured that out.

Originally posted by inimalist
I think you are confusing nihilistic pessimism with intelligence

seeing the natural order of things as beautiful yet tragic is not difficult

Meh thats where I have to disagree. Lets look at the holocaust for instance, I have no desire to go over the details of what happened then and Im sure you know alot of the details already. Do you really believe that such an event is permissable? And while the holocaust is probably the most potent example of human suffering in recent memory, it is nothing compared to the combined suffering of all beings in the history of the world human or otherwise.

Nature is not merciful, not at all. Knowledge of this, and the knowledge that as an individual you can do little to change events, can only lead to sorrow. To most individuals, this knowledge is manifested in the death of a loved one, though intellectuals who are capable of understanding the grand scale of things have an even greater weight on their shoulders. The only protection is ignorance, or to believe in false rationalizations. Thats why I say that some forms of knowledge are a curse. That is not to say that all forms of knowledge are a curse of course, most forms of knowledge are quite beneficial to the well being of humanity.

And I'll grant that the search of knowledge and following all possible paths of reasoning is a noble goal, but like anything it has a price. Most people enjoy their childhoods more than any other time in their life, and that is due to their ignorance during that period. Animals are almost completely ignorant, and as such they are the most pure expression of life. They are entirely content with their roles. Can any human match that, much less a philosopher? I dont think its possible. But I could be wrong .

Originally posted by Nerevar
Meh thats where I have to disagree. Lets look at the holocaust for instance, I have no desire to go over the details of what happened then and Im sure you know alot of the details already. Do you really believe that such an event is permissable? And while the holocaust is probably the most potent example of human suffering in recent memory, it is nothing compared to the combined suffering of all beings in the history of the world human or otherwise.

Nature is not merciful, not at all. Knowledge of this, and the knowledge that as an individual you can do little to change events, can only lead to sorrow. To most individuals, this knowledge is manifested in the death of a loved one, though intellectuals who are capable of understanding the grand scale of things have an even greater weight on their shoulders. The only protection is ignorance, or to believe in false rationalizations. Thats why I say that some forms of knowledge are a curse. That is not to say that all forms of knowledge are a curse of course, most forms of knowledge are quite beneficial to the well being of humanity.

And I'll grant that the search of knowledge and following all possible paths of reasoning is a noble goal, but like anything it has a price. Most people enjoy their childhoods more than any other time in their life, and that is due to their ignorance during that period. Animals are almost completely ignorant, and as such they are the most pure expression of life. They are entirely content with their roles. Can any human match that, much less a philosopher? I dont think its possible. But I could be wrong .

so what you are saying isn't nihilistic pessimism?

well, thanks for telling me I don't actually feel the way I feel

good luck with being ignorant

Damn some of you guys are depressed

i'm not

Originally posted by chithappens
some

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Knowledge of determinism (your second example) isn't useful. Even if it were absolutely provable it wouldn't be applicable to anything. There is no value in knowledge that cannot be used and has no effect on action.

1) Even if it is possible for a single fact to have no use (which I will address below) the knowledge has value. This is obviously a personal belief, but I don't feel that I should have to put what I know into action (or even be able to) for it to be beneficial for me to know it. Less ignorance is, in itself, a goal and has, at the very least personal, value.

2) I cannot fathom any knowledge that would not have practical use. The most important caveat here being that your or my failure to think of a practical use does not disqualify it from having one. With the specifics of determinism, there is plenty that could be used. For instance, lets talk about atomic determinism before neurological (although the points are generally the same, and, imho, can be extended to anything that one might think is impractical knowledge), the science and technology that would be required to run an experiment where determinism could be accurately tested themselves are beneficial. The entire process of a research programme to predict the movement of electrons and atoms within the human body would produce leaps and bounds in technology that would have direct practical impact on society. For instance, to properly track all such atoms, I dont remember the exact figures, but it would take a super computer taller than several light years.

Originally posted by inimalist
so what you are saying isn't nihilistic pessimism?

well, thanks for telling me I don't actually feel the way I feel

good luck with being ignorant

No its not nihilistic pessimism. Nihilism is the belief that the world is meaningless. Im not arguing that we should all crawl up in a corner somewhere and wallow in despair. I was just giving you the truth of the matter, and if you want to dismiss it than you are proving my point correct that ignorance is bliss.



Yeah my post was rather gloomy, but it was necessary since we are discussing the suffering of the world after all. Im not depressed on the whole, though some subjects obviously arent very cheerful to think about. Which was my point all along.

Originally posted by Nerevar
No its not nihilistic pessimism. Nihilism is the belief that the world is meaningless. Im not arguing that we should all crawl up in a corner somewhere and wallow in despair. I was just giving you the truth of the matter, and if you want to dismiss it than you are proving my point correct that ignorance is bliss.


lol

oh, you were just telling me the truth of the matter of how I feel about ignorance?

well, glad you cleared that up for me, I was having trouble deciding how I value things personally

It probably is
if you're only surrounded by dumb-asses.

Knowledge is a gift, wonder is the curse.

knowledge is not a curse because it equals power.

Knowledge is only a curse when wisdom is not involved.

i some times think that knowledge can be a curse when you are surrounded by ignorance...

QOUTE FROM ZOOLANDER:

am i the only person who sees this? i fell like i am taking crazy pills!!!

Wild Shadow has it. Knowledge is only a problem when surrounded by ignorance.

A very true statement.

Knowledge is a curse precisely because it lets you see how stupid everyone actually is. You're always surrounded by ignorance, if you can't see it you're probably not smart enough.

Maybe, for cowards.

Yet it can ruin your life when shared as I did.

Should have listened to the trees man, they knew what they were talkin about.

Its not the knowledge whats the problem, its how you process & use it.

how can it be knowlegde if its not teaching you wisdom?
honestly, the only way knowledge would look like curse would be the kind that is purely superficial knowledge or rather, just facts without any inherent wisdom. knowledge in its true sense liberates and liberation doesn't occur without wisdom. the two go hand-in-hand.

~Sado

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Knowledge is a curse precisely because it lets you see how stupid everyone actually is. You're always surrounded by ignorance, if you can't see it you're probably not smart enough.

That's a good statement. I like this enough to profile it.

Originally posted by Becci
The less you know, the happier you are. Is it possible to consider knowledge a curse?

good question! i think the saying "ignorance is bliss" is true, to a certain point. but what happens when you don't know what a car is and think it'll dissolve when you walk in front of it?

not so happy now, are we?

i don't think knowledge brings sadness, persay. rather, 'the more you know' gives you a sense of gravitas; also, since you're knowledgeable, you can use your knowledge to start coping, or to put yourself in the way of educational opportunities to help you cope. For example, maybe you have just realized that someone is abusing you; and you can't understand it fully. So, with your knowledge that says you should seek out help, you go to a therapist, or a group for abusees.
Sure, that's a really long journey, makes your mind as well as your body exhausted. but when it's all over, you feel much better about youself.
but happiness, to me, isn't a moment of YAYYYYY. happiness is understanding and accepting and being content and being ready to move on. if you're able to move forward, you can learn more and become wise, learn more and better yourself... the kind of things that lead to long-term happiness instead of that quick moment.

you mature if you have knowledge

Knowledge I suppose could be a curse, but I think the truth behind it is (for me anyways), is that no matter how much I learn, the only thing I really ever learn is that I don't know as much I thought I did.

That in itself is a curse.

Originally posted by mr.smiley
Knowledge I suppose could be a curse, but I think the truth behind it is (for me anyways), is that no matter how much I learn, the only thing I really ever learn is that I don't know as much I thought I did.

That in itself is a curse. Hear, hear!!

Yet they say that ignorance is bliss. It is for many people, yeah many, and the ones that try to speak are trivialized...sad really.

I dont think its a curse but it is more of a gift that should used when needed to do so.

knowledge = power

Originally posted by inimalist
knowledge = power

power leads to desire

desire leads to anger

anger leads to suffering


In other words thinking leads to suffering.

i'd agree with that

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
power leads to desire

desire leads to anger

anger leads to suffering


In other words thinking leads to suffering. Some suffering leads to happiness.

Knowledge is only a curse when I get headaches.

Originally posted by Quark_666
Some suffering leads to happiness.

Which eventually leads to greater suffering.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Which eventually leads to greater suffering. I don't really see the connection. Just to bring it to my level, can you convince me that in the long run I'll be happier if I drop out of college?

Originally posted by Quark_666
I don't really see the connection.

To be happy you have to do something, that alters something else and far enough down the line you'll cause suffering.

Originally posted by Quark_666
Just to bring it to my level, can you convince me that in the long run I'll be happier if I drop out of college?

I can't, nor do I know enough about you make an argument if I could. The ability to think intelligently isn't what results in suffering, it's the ability to think at all.

I believe knowledge is very much a curse. If you are unaware, then you're blissfully living in oblivion. Adam and Eve were unknowledgable when first created, and were happy that way. Once given knowledge, hardship began. If you look at it from a Christian perspective, just an example, God did not mean for humans to contain knowledge. When they gained it they were punished for it. From a Christian perspective I believe God very much meant knowledge to be a curse on humans, punishment.

So by using technology you're perpetuating the curse . . .

You should definitely drop out of school. Soon.

"Knowledge is a great power. Lack of it is darkness"!!!!!I completly agree with this proverb.

ignorance is bliss. i remember the matrix scene where cypher can't taste the steak

He could taste it. He just lamented that he couldn't in the real world.

if u mean like scholary knowledge,then no,but if u ean like secrets and personal stuff,then hell yes.one of my ways is the simple qoute "ignorance is bliss"

That dude^ just said that.

knowlege is a blessing and a curse

if you use the knowlege to do harm others its a curse
knowlege is a blessing if it prevents you and others from harm.

Originally posted by Nemesis X
Knowledge is only a curse when I get headaches.

I argee!

Of course it's a curse! When youre surrounded by stupid people what do you expect.

I wish I had never read a freeken book!

Originally posted by inimalist
man, people keep making threads like this

knowledge = power. I don't know where we lost that.... Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Athens vs Sparta

PhD Candidate vs Man with Club

Rome vs Germanic Tribes

Fundamentalist Christianity vs Science

Extremist Islam vs Stock Brokers

Abraham Lincoln vs John Wilkes Booth


It's fairly stupid to claim that knowledge is power in anything but a very small number of circumstances. Technology is power. Influence is power. Knowledge is exploited by those who want actual power and then cast aside.
Right, so if we have this equation proven or disproven as the case may be, what is power?

Originally posted by Grate the Vraya
Right, so if we have this equation proven or disproven as the case may be, what is power?

Energy per unit time.

Or in a more abstract sense the ability to get the things you want done when you want them done (which ties right into that scientific definition).

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Energy per unit time.

Or in a more abstract sense the ability to get the things you want done when you want them done (which ties right into that scientific definition). What of irrelevant and trivial knowledge? That is still knowledge, but it does not help to achieve goals. For example, if there is a meteor plummeting toward the earth, and you want to stop the meteor from crashing in to your planet, and you know that the sun is made of hydrogen, does that bit of knowledge increase the likelihood of you stopping that meteor. Or, is that bit of knowledge power?

Originally posted by Grate the Vraya
What of irrelevant and trivial knowledge? That is still knowledge, but it does not help to achieve goals. For example, if there is a meteor plummeting toward the earth, and you want to stop the meteor from crashing in to your planet, and you know that the sun is made of hydrogen, does that bit of knowledge increase the likelihood of you stopping that meteor. Or, is that bit of knowledge power?

There are, in a quick analysis, two major elements to knowledge: breadth and depth. Your example implies that deep but narrow knowledge is the only useful kind. However broad but shallow knowledge means you're more likely to be useful in a randomly selected situation.

No knowledge is totally useless all of the time for everyone. Little bits of trivial can end up altering your whole view of the world (the planets don't quite seem move properly, photons are waves but have discrete energy levels), though you obviously shouldn't depend on that happening.

So what I'm saying is while the knowledge that the sun is made of hydrogen is of no use when you want to stop a meteor it is of use when you want to calibrate your instruments in astrophysics (I assume) then it is of use, then it is power.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
There are, in a quick analysis, two major elements to knowledge: breadth and depth. Your example implies that deep but narrow knowledge is the only useful kind. However broad but shallow knowledge means you're more likely to be useful in a randomly selected situation.

No knowledge is totally useless all of the time for everyone. Little bits of trivial can end up altering your whole view of the world (the planets don't quite seem move properly, photons are waves but have discrete energy levels), though you obviously shouldn't depend on that happening.

So what I'm saying is while the knowledge that the sun is made of hydrogen is of no use when you want to stop a meteor it is of use when you want to calibrate your instruments in astrophysics (I assume) then it is of use, then it is power. If the knowledge is deep but specific, then, while it becomes power in specific cases, it is useless in others, and if the knowledge is broad but vague, it becomes power in most cases, but, because of the lack of depth, the use is limited. Let us also not forget the price of knowledge. To gain knowledge requires time, and takes space in memory. Sometimes gaining knowledge produces stress because of the new questions that are revealed and stress reduces lifespan. Gaining knowledge therefore reduces the amount of time that can be spent doing other things, and, as I have pointed out above, in most cases, its use is limited. So, while I'm not saying that knowledge is a curse, I do believe that it is a gamble.

Originally posted by Grate the Vraya
If the knowledge is deep but specific, then, while it becomes power in specific cases, it is useless in others, and if the knowledge is broad but vague, it becomes power in most cases, but, because of the lack of depth, the use is limited.

Fortunately we don't have to make these extreme compromises in real life. We gain deep knowledge of the things that are important in our lives and that interest us while we gain shallow knowledge of the irrelevant or boring things.

Originally posted by Grate the Vraya
Let us also not forget the price of knowledge. To gain knowledge requires time, and takes space in memory.

So? Everything takes time and that space in your memory isn't getting used for anything else.

Originally posted by Grate the Vraya
Sometimes gaining knowledge produces stress because of the new questions that are revealed.

I would count that as a good thing, not a price.

Originally posted by Grate the Vraya
Gaining knowledge therefore reduces the amount of time that can be spent doing other things, and, as I have pointed out above, in most cases, its use is limited.

The vast majority of knowledge you have is useful. The knowledge of how to open doors, chew food, walk, jump, count. You can't seriously be proposing that we shouldn't seek out knowledge because we might be wasting time. Everything around you came about because someone used knowledge to solve a problem.

Originally posted by Grate the Vraya
So, while I'm not saying that knowledge is a curse, I do believe that it is a gamble.

Except that in this case not gambling is an instant loss (ie if you know nothing you're far worse off than the guy who just knows some trivia).

Naturally knowledge is a gift. Using improperly makes it a curse.

Edit

Naturally knowledge is a gift. Using "it" improperly makes it a curse.

You could've just edited your first post.

Depends on what type of knowledge and how much.

unless your a megalomaniac backyard scientist with delusions of grandeur with the money and access to radioactive material and the intellect of Doom... i doubt it.

Originally posted by King Castle
unless your a megalomaniac backyard scientist with delusions of grandeur with the money and access to radioactive material and the intellect of Doom... i doubt it. That still sounds like a wonderful gift. From his perspective at least.

Humans have evolved higher intelligence than other forms of life on earth...but we don't seem to use it very well.

This is my take, I am only a teenager, I have heard much about the world and I do not like what I here... I think that knowledge is a bad thing, this is why. Do you ever wonder why kids, running around in the street, playing games, believing in things like Santa, it seems that they are having the time of their life. It's because they are, they, being kids, don't really know anything, and don't really have a firm grasp from what's real and what's not, but once they progress and they find knowledge of the real world, their happiness detiriorates, and with knowledge comes questions, questions that haunt us in our sleep. "is there a god," "how do I know I'm not real," these type of questions are the questions that come from what we learn, and I don't know about you, but they drive me insane, and I know I'm just a 17 teen year old who pushes way to hard and puts too much stress on myself, I blame knowledge, the knowledge of a broken heart, the knowledge of an artist, the knowledge of being skeptic, and it's a shame because with out knowledge, we cannot proceed in life and be succsessful... And on the other hand, knowledge has taught me how to love, taught me how to be respectfull, and much more... The overall thing to know about knowledge is to know how it helps you, and how it doesn't

This discussion reminds me of the poem, "To Science" by Edgar Allan Poe.

to much of anything could be a curse..

Yeah, I guess that could be true. lol

Originally posted by beast1234
knowledge is not a curse because it equals power.

Only it doesn't always, and some of the times it does, that power can be a curse as well. It all, of course, comes down to how you define a curse and how you define power.

To the OP, Hell yeah knowledge is a curse. I would much rather not know that many in the world are idiots, and the more I know about anything, the more I know THAT.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Knowledge is a curse precisely because it lets you see how stupid everyone actually is. You're always surrounded by ignorance, if you can't see it you're probably not smart enough.

"I know only that I know nothing"

Knowledge = bacteria. There are good ones and there are bad ones.

Yes, it is. Thats why our Lord God gave us hammers, so we might remove this curse with many righteous drubbings to the cranium! ALRIGHT CHUMS LETS DO THIS! ARGH!

......at leest i hav chiken

Knowledge is a curse when others dont have the same kind of knowledge...(its like a cop that gets married to a teacher)

That's true. Expecially when you try to share that knowledge and it doesn't want to be heard. Everybody is an idiot around but they think that you are. lol

not if everyone had it....

patience is a virtue

Knowledge is power. Shortsightedness is the curse.

some powers SOME rather not have

Knowledge is much like fire. Used properly, it can be a valuable tool. Used carelessly, fire can destroy lives, towns and forests in an instant.

Knowledge has dangers and an ugly dark side. But it can also bring tremendous opportunities and benefits.

Originally posted by Rapidash
The less you know, the happier you are.
I disagree.

Originally posted by Storm
Knowledge is much like fire. Used properly, it can be a valuable tool. Used carelessly, fire can destroy lives, towns and forests in an instant.

Knowledge has dangers and an ugly dark side. But it can also bring tremendous opportunities and benefits.

Pretty well said here. The biggest dangers of knowledge are that we may think we have a greater understanding than we do and cause harm through ignorance or simply use it for wrong. I think most who seek knowledge do so for positive reasons and as much as lies with them work to bring good from what they learn. I see nothing wrong with being reminded from time to time that we know nothing.

Originally posted by Astner
I disagree.

But I bet you would have been happier if you didn't know he believed that 313

Originally posted by Storm
Knowledge is much like fire. Used properly, it can be a valuable tool. Used carelessly, fire can destroy lives, towns and forests in an instant.

Knowledge has dangers and an ugly dark side. But it can also bring tremendous opportunities and benefits.

So you're telling us that knowledge can roast a marshmallow.

Originally posted by Storm
Knowledge is much like fire. Used properly, it can be a valuable tool. Used carelessly, fire can destroy lives, towns and forests in an instant.

Knowledge has dangers and an ugly dark side. But it can also bring tremendous opportunities and benefits. Knowledge sounds more like nuclear physics than fire. Nuclear knowledge can start fires and irradiate the world! Double whammy.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
But I bet you would have been happier if you didn't know he believed that 313
No. I was referring to relevant knowledge. Knowing that the price of a can of coke has changed is not going to make me feel better or worse just for the sake of the change. I might get happy because it has dropped in price, or pissed because it has raised in price. But that's in awareness of my financial situation, and not for the knowledge itself.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Knowledge sounds more like nuclear physics than fire. Nuclear knowledge can start fires and irradiate the world! Double whammy.
You need more resources than just knowledge to utilize nuclear fission as a power source. That said, it was an anecdote.

Originally posted by Astner
No. I was referring to relevant knowledge. Knowing that the price of a can of coke has changed is not going to make me feel better or worse just for the sake of the change. I might get happy because it has dropped in price, or pissed because it has raised in price. But that's in awareness of my financial situation, and not for the knowledge itself.

That seems like no-true-scotsman to me. What is the difference between knowledge and "relevant" knowledge?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
That seems like no-true-scotsman to me.
Then you don't know what a fallacy is. As I'm expressing my opinion on the matter, not making any attempts of approaching the matter objectively.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
What is the difference between knowledge and "relevant" knowledge?
Knowledge I personally feel matters.

Originally posted by Astner
You need more resources than just knowledge to utilize nuclear fission as a power source. That said, it was an anecdote. Swing and a miss. I think it's a problem of sociolinguistics at this point.

Originally posted by Rapidash
The less you know, the happier you are. Is it possible to consider knowledge a curse?

a long long time ago I hacked myself into my ex email account and found out things I didnt want too, yes it is. I never did it again.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Swing and a miss. I think it's a problem of sociolinguistics at this point.
Mind pointing out the problem? Or are you just stroking your ego?

Originally posted by rudester
a long long time ago I hacked myself into my ex email account and found out things I didnt want too, yes it is. I never did it again.
So you'd rather live in ignorance of your ex-girlfriend's actions, allowing her to get away with what she did? Don't you have any self-respect?

You gotta get that sand out of your vagina, it's making you cranky.

I thought as much. Concession accepted.

Concessions don't de-sand vaginas. And if they did, I'm sure they'd charge $10 too much.

Originally posted by Astner
Knowledge I personally feel matters.

So you've arbitrarily drawn a line so that you don't even have to think about the issue. Cool, conversation over.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
So you've arbitrarily drawn a line so that you don't even have to think about the issue.
Yes it's called an opinion, and so I have no obligations to come up with a systematic model to generally distinguish what's considered relevant and what isn't.

Originally posted by Astner
So you'd rather live in ignorance of your ex-girlfriend's actions, allowing her to get away with what she did? Don't you have any self-respect?

Knew it. Not mocking you, but I knew it was you all along in that story.

I think there are some situations where knowledge of something negatively affects the happiness or comfort of your life.

Indeed.

Being HIV+ is one where people will say "I'd rather not know". I've personally heard it from several people.

I'd rather know if I were HIV-positive and rich as there is a functional cure based on stem cell research, though it's still in its infancy.

It would, however, suck to know the day of your death, or even the year. Actually, I wouldn't even want to know what decade.

Originally posted by Robtard
Indeed.

Being HIV+ is one where people will say "I'd rather not know". I've personally heard it from several people. Yeah, but the longer you don't know that the worse it gets when you find out, for multiple reasons. And you are probably going to find out.

I'd rather know about HIV right away, catch it in its infancy, Magic-style. I imagine that sooner or later I'd wind up suspecting it anyway, and then I'd be guilt-ridden over anyone I unwittingly infected.

Originally posted by Robtard
Being HIV+ is one where people will say "I'd rather not know". I've personally heard it from several people.
Because we all know it's better to ignore it so it eventually can blossom into full blown AIDS, instead of taking modifying drugs to slow down the process and live for a few more decades. I mean who in their right mind wants to live well?

Originally posted by Astner
Because we all know it's better to ignore it so it eventually can blossom into full blown AIDS, instead of taking modifying drugs to slow down the process and live for a few more decades. I mean who in their right mind wants to live well?

Apparently you didn't comprehend. I'd personally want to know though.

Originally posted by Robtard
Apparently you didn't comprehend. I'd personally want to know though.
The statement didn't apply to you but rather the ones you "knew."

Are you guys serious? He's being sarcastic. He's addressing the main thread topic, pointing out why knowledge is better.

Maybe I'm an optimist, but I do not think knowledge is a curse. I'm probably going to sound like a crazy here, but I honestly think we may be the first intelligent life in the universe. We are a very very young species. We only underwent the Neolithic Revolution 10,000 years ago, and in the timespan from then to now we now have atomic weapons, particle accelerators, and aeronautic technology, I'd say that we are not at our peak yet. It is only because we live now. We have this conception that because we live "now", "Now" is the peak of humanity. The most we'll ever get to. But it's not. Civilization is just working out the kinks. We do realize the potential horrors of our species, but that is why we will take necessary steps to prevent it. We're not even out of our Early Triassic yet. And considering the progress we've made, I'd honestly say our species is destined for wondrous things, things that would be as insane to you as our technology is to someone from the Middle Ages. the only sadness is our inability to see it, for we are trapped in the "Now". Main point, no intelligence is not a curse, but rather a gift.

Originally posted by Rapidash
The less you know, the happier you are. Is it possible to consider knowledge a curse?
Come on now, it goes both ways. Knowing how to solve a problem can make you happier.