Cyclops runs a gauntlet

Lord S

Originally posted by Mindset
How can you not know Clayface if you read Batman?

I guess he hasn't been around for awhile, but still. I don't read Batman...and only really know a handful of his rogue gallery, (I'm assuming Clayface is a bad guy...right?)

Originally posted by Juk3n
good thing this is a non prep'd resourceless battle, Batman gets blasted into oblivion, you must see this and accept it for the good of man kind.

Not to mention responses like that get KMC laughed at over at hero chat, so please please please, no more bad jokes about Batman beating Cyclops when optic blasts are allowed with no stips. I'm sure Cyclops can fry a lot of people who just stand there like a dummy, but it's silly to think that someone of Batman's skills and athletic prowess is going to be one of them. Plus Cyclops is overrated IMO.

vansonbee

Originally posted by Lord S
I'm sure Cyclops can fry a lot of people who just stand there like a dummy, but it's silly to think that someone of Batman's skills and athletic prowess is going to be one of them. Plus Cyclops is overrated IMO.

Batman is the one who is overrated...

Cyclops also went through training for his optic blast accuracy. This was proven when Cyclops hit fast characters like Quick Silver with ease. It's listed in respect Thread for Cyclops.

Lord S

Originally posted by vansonbee
Batman is the one who is overrated... Against someone like Cyclops? Hardly.

Mindset

Originally posted by Lord S
I don't read Batman...and only really know a handful of his rogue gallery, (I'm assuming Clayface is a bad guy...right?)

I'm sure Cyclops can fry a lot of people who just stand there like a dummy, but it's silly to think that someone of Batman's skills and athletic prowess is going to be one of them. Plus Cyclops is overrated IMO.

You don't read Batman comics, but you know he can beat Cyclops?

I don't get it.

Lord S

Originally posted by Mindset
You don't read Batman comics, but you know he can beat Cyclops?

I don't get it. You don't have to read Batman comics or have every minutiae of his history at your fingertips to have a general understanding of the character's abilities. Especially not against someone like Cyclops...who I do know very well from following X-Men for many years. The guy is a stiff.

What is there not to get?

Mindset

Originally posted by Lord S
You don't have to read Batman comics or have every minutiae of his history at your fingertips to have a general understanding of the character's abilities. Especially not against someone like Cyclops...who I do know very well from following X-Men for many years. The guy is a stiff.

What is there not to get?

You can't actually know what Batman is capable of if you don't read comics with him in them...

Cyclops being a stiff has what to do with him being able to hit Batman with an optic blast?

Lord S

Originally posted by Mindset
You can't actually know what Batman is capable of if you don't read comics with him in them...

Cyclops being a stiff has what to do with him being able to hit Batman with an optic blast? Ok what was that thing we talked about the other day? Common knowledge? Yeah.

It's not like I've never read comics with Batman in them, I just don't follow the character that closely. Just like I don't read X-Men comics anymore, but still consider myself quite knowledgable on the subject. Due to his popularity, and the vast amount of information about him available all over the web, even a casual reader can get a good handle on what his abilities are. You don't need to have infinite knowledge on the character to know that he's an excellent h2h combatant., has a wide array of gadgets and weaponry in his belt, plus a brain. Common knowledge.

Regarding Cyclops, I don't doubt he can fry anyone he nails with his optic blasts at point-blank range, but what else has he got? Maybe you're under the assumption that Batman will just stand in front of him and do nothing...if that's the case, then Cyclops surely wins, but that would be a ludicrous assumption. How good is Cyclops h2h? He's too one-dimensional, IMO. People talk about him as if he's Captain America, when in fact he's far from it.

So that's my opinion...if your nickers are still in a knot over it, then that's your problem.

SuperiorTech

Your right actually reading the comics about the people your debating for or against is pretty overrated.

Aster Phoenix

I would say he stops at 2.

Lord S

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
Your right actually reading the comics about the people your debating for or against is pretty overrated. If you say so.

The Heap

He stops at Joker.

Mindset

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
Your right actually reading the comics about the people your debating for or against is pretty overrated. laughing out loud

Mindset

Originally posted by Lord S
Ok what was that thing we talked about the other day? Common knowledge? Yeah.

It's not like I've never read comics with Batman in them, I just don't follow the character that closely. Just like I don't read X-Men comics anymore, but still consider myself quite knowledgable on the subject. Due to his popularity, and the vast amount of information about him available all over the web, even a casual reader can get a good handle on what his abilities are. You don't need to have infinite knowledge on the character to know that he's an excellent h2h combatant., has a wide array of gadgets and weaponry in his belt, plus a brain. Common knowledge.

Regarding Cyclops, I don't doubt he can fry anyone he nails with his optic blasts at point-blank range, but what else has he got? Maybe you're under the assumption that Batman will just stand in front of him and do nothing...if that's the case, then Cyclops surely wins, but that would be a ludicrous assumption. How good is Cyclops h2h? He's too one-dimensional, IMO. People talk about him as if he's Captain America, when in fact he's far from it.

So that's my opinion...if your nickers are still in a knot over it, then that's your problem.

Yes, because the only scenario in which Cyclops will be able to hit Batman is if he stands still.

I mean, Cyclops never hits moving objects.

Lord S

Originally posted by Mindset
Yes, because the only scenario in which Cyclops will be able to hit Batman is if he stands still.

I mean, Cyclops never hits moving objects. So then by your logic Cyclops should never lose against anybody that moves.

The Heap

Well, no way in HELL is Cyclops beating Clayface. His lasers won't help him much here.

Mindset

Originally posted by Lord S
So then by your logic Cyclops should never lose against anybody that moves. Is this post serious?

Lord S

Originally posted by Mindset
Is this post serious? That depends if you believe your own, ahem, logic.

Mindset

Originally posted by Lord S
That depends if you believe your own, ahem, logic. Are you mentally retarded?

Lord S

Originally posted by Mindset
Are you mentally retarded? Wow...just wow!

Who ever said true wit was dead...Oscar Wilde ain't got nothing on you!

SuperiorTech

Originally posted by Lord S
So then by your logic Cyclops should never lose against anybody that moves.

Even if we are to discount the Speed of his blast, The Accuracy of Cyke using them and just take into account the actual radius the he can cover with a blast batman would be hard pressed not to get tagged.

http://img224.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=60977_X-Men_Hidden_Years_n1-p29_122_343lo.JPG
------------------------------------------------------------
http://img46.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=65155_HY22PG06_122_619lo.JPG
http://img176.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=65156_HY22PG07_122_484lo.JPG
------------------------------------------------------------
http://img219.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=65146_Secret_Wars_005-21_122_64lo.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/pr1983/scotthulkPIS2.jpg

Mindset

Originally posted by Lord S
Wow...just wow!

Who ever said true wit was dead...Oscar Wilde ain't got nothing on you! So I guess you are.

When did I ever say or even elude to the fact Cyclops would never lose to someone that moves? Oh yea, never.

Either you are trolling or you're retarded.

iceman24567

You crack me up but seriously no expression

Lord S

Originally posted by Mindset
So I guess you are.

When did I ever say or even elude to the fact Cyclops would never lose to someone that moves? Oh yea, never.

Either you are trolling or you're retarded. rolleyes1

I think you mean 'allude'. See...I can be an *******, too.

I don't know what you're all mad about, but next time try debating without the sarcasm and general snarkiness. Maybe it's residual hostility carried over from that Onslaught/Thanos thread, but you've been riding me since about halfway through this thread to the point of name-calling.

You've been reported, so why not just drop it now?

Mindset

Originally posted by Lord S
rolleyes1

I think you mean 'allude'. See...I can be an *******, too.

I don't know what you're all mad about, but next time try debating without the sarcasm and general snarkiness. Maybe it's residual hostility carried over from that Onslaught/Thanos thread, but you've been riding me since about halfway through this thread to the point of name-calling.

You've been reported, so why not just drop it now? Asking questions is riding you?

I was sarcastic in one post in this entire thread...

The point of name calling? The only time I said anything rude to you was when you tried to make up something I said, I suggest you look back through this thread because it seems like you are seeing things that weren't actually there.

Badabing

Guys, shut up please and get back on topic. gun4durgun3

The Heap

Clayface stops Cyclops in his tracks.

Bouboumaster

Lol at the scans where Hulk pwn Cyclops :P

Bouboumaster

Originally posted by vansonbee
1. Riddler = 9/10 Cyclops

2. Captain America = 8/10 Captain America win: Shield, Strength, speed, H2H combat expert

3. Joker = 8/10 Cyclops

4. Batman = 7/10 Cyclops

5. Spider-Man = 8/10 win for Spiderman: Spider Sense, Speed, Strength

6. Clayface = Tie I say. Clayface getting blast to bits and it take him too long to regenarate to continue the battle, or Clay take hold and swallow Cyclop and squeeze him to death.

Qft

vansonbee

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Qft

What does those initials stand for?

agreeing with my ratio :P?

Soljer

Huge lulz at 'lord s.'

Don't sweat it, mindset. Some people just don't have the appropriate faculties.

The Heap

Originally posted by Soljer
Huge lulz at 'lord s.'

Don't sweat it, mindset. Some people just don't have the appropriate faculties.

You said it. Marvel fanboys in particular just don't seem to get it.

occultdestroyer

namorsubby

cyclops stops at cap.

Lord S

Originally posted by Soljer
Huge lulz at 'lord s.'

Don't sweat it, mindset. Some people just don't have the appropriate faculties. Only moderately clever.

Why not actually try contributing to the topic instead of acting like a little troll...oh but I forgot, you don't know how to do anything else.

Badabing

Originally posted by vansonbee
What does those initials stand for?

agreeing with my ratio :P? Quoted For Truth.

Please keep it civil. This is the second time I've had to post in this thread. Next time I'm bringing warnings and bans. Thanks.

peejayd

Originally posted by occultdestroyer 1. Riddler

* even if the Riddler has some kind of gadgets, i doubt that it would be faster than Cyke blasting him in almost less than a second, Cyke takes this 10/10...

Originally posted by occultdestroyer 2. Captain America

* with considerable distance, Cyke takes this 10/10... why? eventhough Cap has his indestructible shield, it would not cover his entire body, so Cyke would blast parts of Cap's body not covered by the shield... if Cap throws the shield, Cyke can blast the shield away and Cap would be vulnerable... yes, Cyke can blast the shield away because the shield being indestructible is not a factor, it's the force of the throw, and optic blasts are more powerful force than Cap's superhuman throw...

* if somehow Cap managed to get close, he better make a quick one-shot hit to confuse or KO Cyke, if not, Cyke is also an aikido & judo expert, taking him down in hand-to-hand plus a close range optic blast will not be an easy task even if it's Cap... if it's far, Cyke 10/10... if it's close, still Cyke 7-8/10...

Originally posted by occultdestroyer 3. Joker

* same as Riddler, Cyke takes this 10/10...

Originally posted by occultdestroyer 4. Batman

* just like in the Cyclops vs. Batman thread, Cykes takes this one...

* if somehow Bats managed to get close, he better make a quick one-shot hit to confuse or KO Cyke, if not, Cyke is also an aikido & judo expert, taking him down in hand-to-hand plus a close range optic blast will not be an easy task even if it's Bats... if it's far, Cyke 10/10... if it's close, still Cyke 7-8/10...

Originally posted by occultdestroyer 5. Spider-Man

* Cyke has managed to tag Northstar and Quicksilver both with superhuman speed, Cyke has managed to tag Wolverine and Nightcrawler both with superhuman agility... in my opinion, if there's enough distance between them, Cyke takes this... aiming is not problem, Cyke has uncanny ability of spatial (trigonometry/geometry/whatever) awareness which he can use to ricochet his blast... Spidey's senses might alarm him but consider the speed of the blast...

* if somehow Spidey managed to get close, he better make a quick one-shot hit to confuse or KO Cyke, if not, Cyke is also an aikido & judo expert, taking him down in hand-to-hand plus a close range optic blast will not be an easy task even if it's Spidey... if it's far, Cyke 10/10... if it's close, still Cyke 7-8/10...

Originally posted by occultdestroyer 6. Clayface

Cyclops wears his visor at all times.
"Get off my lawn" blasts NOT allowed.

* this is the problem... as far as i know, Clayface can regenerate any part of his body if it's cut off, without Mega blasts, Cyke loses this battle, 0/10... unless someone can think of ways how Cyke can defeat Clayface without the use of Mega blasts... smile

Master Crimzon

1. Why is Clayface above Batman and the Captain?

2. Why is the Joker above Captain America?

3. What is the Riddler doing here? He can't fight for sh*t. He's the only Bat-villain worthy of the title "W-I-M-P!".

Anyway, Cyclops could lose to everyone above the Riddler. Captain? He has his shield and superb H2H skills, which easily outclass Cyclops' own. He's easily faster and physically stronger, and as good as Cyclops is in H2H, he's no Captain America. It depends, really, if Captain America can close in or not.

The Joker? With prep, he curbstomps Cyclops. Without prep? Cyclops probably has this. While the Joker's gadgets, extreme levels of speed (Batman-level) and manic strength should give him an edge in close-quarters combat, I really don't see how he can get to Cyclops through the optic blasts. Aside from guns, most of his weaponry work best at medium-to-close range, so unless he's carrying smoke bombs somewhere, he won't close in on Cyclops and will be owned by one of the blasts.

Or he could just nail Cyclops with Joker Venom and cause good ol' Cykes to die with a smile on his face.

Batman? Same deal as Captain America, only that Batman is more resourceful, smarter, and has a superior arsenal of gadgets, enabling him to potentially blind Cyclops, nail him with a batarang, and one-hit KO him in melee. (Leopard Blow, pressure point strike. Anything works)

I'll avoid making an argument about Clayface. I don't know 'nuff of the Clay boy to make an informed argument.

psycho gundam

stops at captain america. cap knows a lot about cyclops, they have fought side by side and cap knows that cyclops had deadly accurate powers.

cap won't dare toss the shield since it's perfectly suited to block the optic blasts since it absorbs and displaces all manner of strikes directed against it. he will make his way closer to scott and once he is within close combat proximity, he will take him down asap, like a true soldier would.

peejayd

Originally posted by psycho gundam
stops at captain america. cap knows a lot about cyclops, they have fought side by side and cap knows that cyclops had deadly accurate powers.

* Cyke obviously knows a lot about Cap... heck, everyone in Marvel Universe knows who Cap is... Cyke sure as hell knows that Cap is an excellent fighter... Cyke is a strategist & a tactician like Cap and he will effective use the things he has advantage over Cap - enough distance and his optic blasts...

Originally posted by psycho gundam
cap won't dare toss the shield since it's perfectly suited to block the optic blasts since it absorbs and displaces all manner of strikes directed against it. he will make his way closer to scott and once he is within close combat proximity, he will take him down asap, like a true soldier would.

* you just said "deadly ACCURATE powers"... if Cyke is that accurate, he can hit Cap's body parts not covered by the shield... unless you want Cap to squeeze his entire body behind the shield...

* if the fight ever came to close range, i doubt Cap can take out Cyke "ASAP" because Cyke is an aikido & judo expert, Cyke might not last long in hand-to-hand combat, but few seconds is enough for Cyke to make an opening and unleash a close range optic blast to Cap...

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Batman? Same deal as Captain America, only that Batman is more resourceful, smarter, and has a superior arsenal of gadgets, enabling him to potentially blind Cyclops, nail him with a batarang, and one-hit KO him in melee. (Leopard Blow, pressure point strike. Anything works)

* Cyke might not be superhumanly agile but he is agile enough to dodge, heck he is agile enough to blast an opponent's leg while doing a cartwheel... plus being a freakin' surgeon with his blasts, Cyke can blitz blasting Batman and his batarang at the same time or heck, just blasting Batsy even before he can draw any gadgets... Cyke's visor is thought-controlled and neutral-activated due to advanced technology... all he had to do is look, think and blast...

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Anyway, Cyclops could lose to everyone above the Riddler.

* seriously... do you know the capabilities of Scott Summers?

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
The Joker? With prep, he curbstomps Cyclops. Without prep? Cyclops probably has this. While the Joker's gadgets, extreme levels of speed (Batman-level) and manic strength should give him an edge in close-quarters combat, I really don't see how he can get to Cyclops through the optic blasts. Aside from guns, most of his weaponry work best at medium-to-close range, so unless he's carrying smoke bombs somewhere, he won't close in on Cyclops and will be owned by one of the blasts.

Or he could just nail Cyclops with Joker Venom and cause good ol' Cykes to die with a smile on his face.

* without prep, Cyke 10/10... smile

Master Crimzon

Originally posted by peejayd
* Cyke might not be superhumanly agile but he is agile enough to dodge, heck he is agile enough to blast an opponent's leg while doing a cartwheel... plus being a freakin' surgeon with his blasts, Cyke can blitz blasting Batman and his batarang at the same time or heck, just blasting Batsy even before he can draw any gadgets... Cyke's visor is thought-controlled and neutral-activated due to advanced technology... all he had to do is look, think and blast...

True. Only that Batman has plenty of flash bombs, batarangs, ropes, and all sorts of complicated gadgets to take care of Scott; granted, Scott isn't slow, but he is far from on par with Batman, who represents that absolute pinnacle of human perfection. One strike is all Batman needs to beat him in close-ranged combat.

Originally posted by peejayd
* seriously... do you know the capabilities of Scott Summers?

COULD, not WOULD. All people above the Riddler can beat Cyke. Even the Joker, if he ambushes Cyke, acid-squirts his face, electrecutes him, and stabs him can, technically, win (although that is an unlikely scenario).

Originally posted by peejayd
* without prep, Cyke 10/10... smile

Yeah, unless the Joker is clever enough to distract Cyclops somehow long enough for him to get into close range, he's no match for optic blasts.

peejayd

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
True. Only that Batman has plenty of flash bombs, batarangs, ropes, and all sorts of complicated gadgets to take care of Scott;

* yeah, unless Cyke blasts him first before even drawing any of those gadgets...

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
granted, Scott isn't slow, but he is far from on par with Batman, who represents that absolute pinnacle of human perfection. One strike is all Batman needs to beat him in close-ranged combat.

* right, Bats really NEEDS a one-hit strike... because if it tolls any longer, there's a close range optic blast waiting for perfect timing...

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
COULD, not WOULD. All people above the Riddler can beat Cyke. Even the Joker, if he ambushes Cyke, acid-squirts his face, electrecutes him, and stabs him can, technically, win (although that is an unlikely scenario).

* with that logic, it's also safe to say Cyke COULD beat all in the list...

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Yeah, unless the Joker is clever enough to distract Cyclops somehow long enough for him to get into close range, he's no match for optic blasts.

* if the Joker is more clever than Cyke... smile

Metalmanx

1. Riddler
Cyke 10/10.

2. Captain America
Cyke 7-8/10.

3. Joker
Cyke 8/10.

4. Batman
Cyke 7-8/10.

5. Spider-Man
Cyke 2-3/10.

6. Clayface
Cyke 5/10. Tie.

Master Crimzon

Originally posted by peejayd
* yeah, unless Cyke blasts him first before even drawing any of those gadgets...

Batman is faster and has better reflexes than Cyke. Therefore, it's logical that he would move faster than him, and get the first hit.

Originally posted by peejayd
* right, Bats really NEEDS a one-hit strike... because if it tolls any longer, there's a close range optic blast waiting for perfect timing...

Yeah. But what would prevent him from getting a one-hit KO on Cykes in H2H? Cykes isn't as fast, strong, resourceful, or skilled.

Originally posted by peejayd
* with that logic, it's also safe to say Cyke COULD beat all in the list...

And you'd be correct. Cykes COULD beat anyone on this list- aside from the Riddler, there doesn't exist a truly massive power difference between Cykes and any of the combatants listed.

Originally posted by peejayd
* if the Joker is more clever than Cyke... smile

He is. Don't even try to argue this.

occultdestroyer

Originally posted by Metalmanx

5. Spider-Man
Cyke 2-3/10.

6. Clayface
Cyke 5/10. Tie.
ka-dur

vansonbee

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Batman is faster and has better reflexes than Cyke. Therefore, it's logical that he would move faster than him, and get the first hit.

I agree Batman is faster then cyclop if H2H combat, but this is reasnable distance and cyclop has his Optic blast, please don't argue with this fact.

Yeah. But what would prevent him from getting a one-hit KO on Cykes in H2H? Cykes isn't as fast, strong, resourceful, or skilled.

Take away Cyclop optic blast ability then, OP stated this be straight up fight. If your unhappy about this result go make thread Cyclop vs Batman in H2H combat.... don't worry I support you roll eyes (sarcastic)

And you'd be correct. Cykes COULD beat anyone on this list- aside from the Riddler, there doesn't exist a truly massive power difference between Cykes and any of the combatants listed.

Spiderman, Clayface and maybe Captain America has chance

He is. Don't even try to argue this.

Joker is clever then Cyclop, if this was scenarios plot fight with prep, but op stated this is straight up fight.

Master Crimzon

I agree Batman is faster then cyclop if H2H combat, but this is reasnable distance and cyclop has his Optic blast, please don't argue with this fact.

I won't. But Batman is clever enough to use his gadgets, speed, and ropes in order to avoid the optic blasts and get to Cyclops; flash bombs, maybe. Cyclops can't do jackshit against that.

Take away Cyclop optic blast ability then, OP stated this be straight up fight. If your unhappy about this result go make thread Cyclop vs Batman in H2H combat.... don't worry I support you roll eyes (sarcastic)

Yes. So? Gadgets can be used in non-prep fight.

Spiderman, Clayface and maybe Captain America has chance.

Ugh. Captain America is not better than Batman.

Metalmanx

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
ka-dur

Wha? Spidey can easily evade just about anything Cyke throws at him. Then clocks Cyke for the win. The 2 is just if Cyke gets a lucky shot off.

And my Clayface vote is in agreement with a previous poster. It's a stalemate, in my opinion, because Cyke can't hurt CF, but he also won't let CF get to him either.

vansonbee

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
I agree Batman is faster then cyclop if H2H combat, but this is reasnable distance and cyclop has his Optic blast, please don't argue with this fact.

I won't. But Batman is clever enough to use his gadgets, speed, and ropes in order to avoid the optic blasts and get to Cyclops; flash bombs, maybe. Cyclops can't do jackshit against that.

Take away Cyclop optic blast ability then, OP stated this be straight up fight. If your unhappy about this result go make thread Cyclop vs Batman in H2H combat.... don't worry I support you roll eyes (sarcastic)

Yes. So? Gadgets can be used in non-prep fight.

Spiderman, Clayface and maybe Captain America has chance.

Ugh. Captain America is not better than Batman.

Yes Batman can use his gadget, but another poster already stated that cyclop can blast his weapons or him during that process,

It's straight up fight, I didn't say Op stated H2H combat

Captain America is enhanced fighter and has shield to protect him against cyclop,

Master Crimzon

Originally posted by vansonbee
Yes Batman can use his gadget, but another poster already stated that cyclop can blast his weapons or him during that process,

It's straight up fight, I didn't say Op stated H2H combat

Captain America is enhanced fighter and has shield to protect him against cyclop,

Straight up fights can involve H2H.

And Captain America is enhanced to THE PINNACLE OF HUMAN PERFECTION- not beyond it. He and Batman are physical equals.

vansonbee

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Straight up fights can involve H2H.

And Captain America is enhanced to THE PINNACLE OF HUMAN PERFECTION- not beyond it. He and Batman are physical equals.

Yes this fight could involve H2H combat, but Batman won't have that chance.

Captain America has strength of 10 men, Batman could beat 10 men... Sorry, but Captain America punches will leave Batman hurting in H2H combat,

Captain America is indeed peak human, but in higher level then Batman. Cap Bench presses 1100 lb for reps and run a mile less then minute.

I also compare Bane to Cap. Bane without vemon is equal to Batman in speed/strength/fighting. With vemon Bane is Superhuman level tier. Which Batman has found a way to beat him. (not in H2H) Bane is indeed stronger then Cap in strength when using vemon

Master Crimzon

Originally posted by vansonbee
Yes this fight could involve H2H combat, but Batman won't have that chance.

Captain America has strength of 10 men, Batman could beat 10 men... Sorry, but Captain America punches will leave Batman hurting in H2H combat,

Captain America is indeed peak human, but in higher level then Batman. Cap Bench presses 1100 lb for reps and run a mile less then minute.

I also compare Bane to Cap. Bane without vemon is equal to Batman in speed/strength/fighting. With vemon Bane is Superhuman level tier. Which Batman has found a way to beat him. (not in H2H) Bane is indeed stronger then Cap in strength when using vemon

Batman is the absolute apex of what a human can be; not only can he move fast enough to easily dodge bullets at extremely close ranges, he has advanced levels of agility and can speed blitz the vast majority of opponents.

Batman can support- without any indication of extreme effort- a ceiling weighing 1000 pounds. He is regularly commented to be extremely physically strong.

Not only that, but is vastly more skilled than Captain America, being a master of both forbidden/nearly exclusive techniques and a master of all 137 known form of martial arts- Steve can't claim as much.

Metalmanx

This is really unnecessary.

Cyke clears this list except for Spidey and Clayface.

Silent Master

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
vastly more skilled than Captain America, being a master of both forbidden/nearly exclusive techniques and a master of all 137 known form of martial arts- Steve can't claim as much.

True, Steve can only claim to know all forms and everyone knows that 137 >>>> all

vansonbee

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Batman is the absolute apex of what a human can be; not only can he move fast enough to easily dodge bullets at extremely close ranges, he has advanced levels of agility and can speed blitz the vast majority of opponents.

Batman can support- without any indication of extreme effort- a ceiling weighing 1000 pounds. He is regularly commented to be extremely physically strong.

Not only that, but is vastly more skilled than Captain America, being a master of both forbidden/nearly exclusive techniques and a master of all 137 known form of martial arts- Steve can't claim as much.

tsk

Batman might more MA then Cap, but his enhance strength of 10 men balance that out as well

Speed blitz? please he move before they even shoot and how did get into this position? I can even vouch cyclop never misses in his comic, lolz Oh wait what this image. Stop boasting that Batman has superhuman abilities when he near peak human only
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/7431/batman419pg14pi6.th.jpg

Master Crimzon

Originally posted by vansonbee
tsk

Batman might more MA then Cap, but his enhance strength of 10 men balance that out as well

Speed blitz? please he move before they even shoot and how did get into this position? I can even vouch cyclop never misses in his comic, lolz Oh wait what this image. Stop boasting that Batman has superhuman abilities when he near peak human only
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/7431/batman419pg14pi6.th.jpg

You just posted an impressive feat of Batman's. While at almost point-blank range, in an uncomfortable position, Batman avoided 13 out of 14 bullets fired at him.

Batman already depicted Captain America-class strength feats- lifting a 1000 pound ceiling with no indication of incredible effort, for once. He displayed similar speed feats.

For god's sake, what's so tough to understand? Both Captain America and Batman are absolute peak human. Neither have any sort of superhuman ability.

Only difference is, Batman is far more intelligent and skilled. Put 1 and 1 together.

Silent Master

Unless I'm remembering incorrectly, Batman was showing as good deal of effort during that lift seeing as he was bent over even further in the next panel, which would mean that it was pushing him down.

Master Crimzon

Originally posted by Silent Master
Unless I'm remembering incorrectly, Batman was showing as good deal of effort during that lift seeing as he was bent over even further in the next panel, which would mean that it was pushing him down.

I don't remember seeing any groaning or excruciating looks of effort from him. I'm sure he was challenged, but definetly not to "Oh my god... I can't take it any more..." stage.

Silent Master

IMO, that is still trumped by Cap casually benching between 1100 and 2200 pounds.

Plus, there is no proof that Batman is vast;y more skilled.

Master Crimzon

Originally posted by Silent Master
IMO, that is still trumped by Cap casually benching between 1100 and 2200 pounds.

Plus, there is no proof that Batman is vast;y more skilled.

Post the scan of Captain America benchpressing such levels of weights, please.

And yes, there is. Batman is a master of every martial art known to many- 137 forms, to be exact. He also knows several almost unique, deadly techniques like the Leopard Blow. Captain America's knowledge and skill does not even come close.

Silent Master

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/37/119955706_dab2418a17.jpg

BTW, Cap knows all styles

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/32/51103752_b01e8e2df0_o.jpg

Master Crimzon

Originally posted by Silent Master
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/37/119955706_dab2418a17.jpg

BTW, Cap knows all styles

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/32/51103752_b01e8e2df0_o.jpg

That was only 1100 pounds. You said 2200 pounds.

And now, support Captain's claims and show where he displays superb martial arts skills and knowledge. He could by lying or exaggerating, for all that we know.

Silent Master

I said between 1100 and 2200 pounds, both of which are covered by that pic as listed weights are generally for that side only.

BTW, Batman knowing 127 styles comes from a line in Batgirl, if a mere comment is good enough for Batman then the same applies to Cap.

Master Crimzon

Originally posted by Silent Master
I said between 1100 and 2200 pounds, both of which are covered by that pic as listed weights are generally for that side only.

BTW, Batman knowing 127 styles comes from a line in Batgirl, if a mere comment is good enough for Batman then the same applies to Cap.

Aside from 'Batgirl', Batman has spent his entire freakin' life mastering every form of martial artistry- not only did he display a greater focus on actually learning the techniques of fighting in comparison to Captain America (unless Steve travelled around the world and got extensive training from the world's greatest martial artists?), he had displayed knowledge of near-exclusive techniques known only to him and minimal amounts of people.

He was, for example, commented to be Tsunemoto's greatest student. Said Tsunemoto was one of the greatest assassins in the world.

He also gives Batgirl a CD containing 127 forms of martial arts, which he- logically- personally recorded.

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/2717/batdmaskui0.jpg

Here, for example, we see Bruce claiming- to no one in particular, unlike Captain America, and with no motive to lie- to have mastered all forms of martial arts.

According to his official DC profile, he has "mastered virtually all forms of combat". Note; this is combat, not exclusively martial arts, displaying that his knowledge range is far more broad than Captain America's.

As you can see, Batman is vastly superior to America in skill.

Philosoph�a

Originally posted by Silent Master
BTW, Cap knows all styles

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/32/51103752_b01e8e2df0_o.jpg

I lol'ed.

namorsubby

cyke stops at 2.

Metalmanx

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
As you can see, Batman is vastly superior to America in skill.

What the f**k?

So, even with no proof claiming that Cap is NOT insanely skilled, Batman is just automatically vastly superior to Cap?

Yea. Nice one. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Philosoph�a

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_CapSkillBasic.jpg

Bottom right corner.

namorsubby

batman is more skilled IMO........not nearly close to being vastly more skilled.......but more skilled.

anyway,that's not what this thread is about. in fact i fear i might have aided this irelevance with my statement above.i could always erase it...........ah well,what's done is done. laughing

Silent Master

And according to every handbook Marvel has ever put out, Cap rates a 7 in fighting skill, BTW, Marvel defines 7 as "master of all forms".

namorsubby

he's not a master of all forms of fighting. batman nearly is. 127 i do believe. and he's incorporated them all into a style that's purely him and unimitatable.

Silent Master

I see, so you're saying that you're right about Cap and both the comics and the handbooks are wrong.

Master Crimzon

Originally posted by Metalmanx
What the f**k?

So, even with no proof claiming that Cap is NOT insanely skilled, Batman is just automatically vastly superior to Cap?

Yea. Nice one. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Maybe not 'vastly' more skilled, but please. When you have far more proof substantiating Batman's position as 'uber martial arts expert' in comparison to Steve Rogers, he is logically more skilled.

Edit: Silent Master, Captain America's skill had not be elaborated to the same extent as Batman's. He's clearly not his technical equal- if you think he is, prove it. I've given more than enough proof.

namorsubby

Originally posted by Silent Master
I see, so you're saying that you're right about Cap and both the comics and the handbooks are wrong. i'm saying you show me a single canon issue that says captain america has mastered all forms of martial arts.it doesn't exist,because he hasn't.when he first started it was nothing but american kickboxing and jijitsu i think.then he added a few more along the way(some not all human forms),but he never mastered everyone on earth.

sorry for my irrelevent post,carry on.

Silent Master

Originally posted by namorsubby
i'm saying you show me a single canon issue that says captain america has mastered all forms of martial arts.it doesn't exist,because he hasn't.when he first started it was nothing but american kickboxing and jijitsu i think.then he added a few more along the way(some not all human forms),but he never mastered everyone on earth.

sorry for my irrelevent post,carry on.

I've already shown you a scan from a canon issue where it was stated he was adept at all forms.

Master Crimzon

Originally posted by Silent Master
I've already shown you a scan from a canon issue where it was stated he was adept at all forms.

Stated by himself, to someone else, with potential falliblity, hyperbole, etc, etc, etc.

Show me a source that truly proves him to be adept at hundreds of forms, like Batman is.

Silent Master

Seeing as you haven't proven that Batman is a master of 127 styles, I already have.

BTW, that CD from Batgirl, it was said to have the basics of 127 styles. IOW, that doesn't prove he's mastered the styles.

namorsubby

ok,when did he acquire knowledge of these forms? he just went from kicking/jijitsu to knowing everything without training? captain america is supposed to be a master h2h combatant. so marvel just goes off and says he knows all forms.where as batman has an established history of him going all over the world, training to achieve that goal.

Master Crimzon

Originally posted by Silent Master
Seeing as you haven't proven that Batman is a master of 127 styles, I already have.

BTW, that CD from Batgirl, it was said to have the basics of 127 styles. IOW, that doesn't prove he's mastered the styles.

CD he gave to her. Who do you think recorded it? Who the hell would have knowledge of such a broad extent of martial arts skills?

Oh, and Batman- in a narration, with no motive for exagerration or lying- stated himself to have mastered every single form of martial arts. His offical DC profile, meanwhile, claims that he mastered virtually every form of combat.

Captain America doesn't have that.

namorsubby

find me a bio that says cap has mastered all forms of martial arts.i've never seen one. if i do recall correctly, most say "multiple"

Silent Master

1) The cd was said to have the basics of 127 styles, you don't have to be a master in order to show someone the basics, therefore it doesn't prove Batman is a master of 127 styles.

2) Handbooks list Cap as a 7 in fighting skill and Marvel defines 7 as being a master of "all styles".

3) I have a Cap stating he is adept at all forms, he also has no reason to lie. you might have a point about "narration" if the person doing it was an actual narrator and not the character himself.

namorsubby

show me a bio. his primary fighting styles are american kickboxing and judo,but he has learned a few other styles.that's what they say.and they're aligned with what is potrayed in his continuity.

Silent Master

No, the hadbooks say that he knows a number of styles, including those you listed, the handbooks then list his skill at 7 which if you look at their definitions means "all styles".

Mindset

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Stated by himself, to someone else, with potential falliblity, hyperbole, etc, etc, etc.

Show me a source that truly proves him to be adept at hundreds of forms, like Batman is. Yes, because Cap is prone to lying and boasting about skills he doesn't have. no expression

peejayd

* let's go back to business... smile

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Batman is faster and has better reflexes than Cyke. Therefore, it's logical that he would move faster than him, and get the first hit.

* faster and better reflexes are not factors in quick draw... Cyke's visor is THOUGHT-CONTROLLED & NEURAL-ACTIVATED, which means the moment Cyke thinks, the visor automatically opens... my argument - that Cyke would blast Bats even before Bats drawing any gadget - still stands...

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Yeah. But what would prevent him from getting a one-hit KO on Cykes in H2H? Cykes isn't as fast, strong, resourceful, or skilled.

* the H2H scenario is only a "what if" Bats managed to close the distance between them... which has very low percentage...

* what would prevent Cyke? Cyke is an aikido & judo expert, plus if Bats is close, he would be a bigger target for a close range/point blank optic blast...

* Cyke wins over Bats 7-8/10... the 2-3/10 instances Bats would manage to strike a one-hit KO...

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
He is. Don't even try to argue this.

* might be, if the battle is with prep... but Cyke is a master strategist & tactician, and if the battle is without prep, Cyke takes this 10/10 with considerable distance...

Originally posted by Metalmanx
5. Spider-Man
Cyke 2-3/10.

* i rated Cyke 7-8/10... because with enough distance between them, Cyke has a very high chance of tagging Spidey... Cyke has managed to tag speedsters (Northstar & Quicksilver) and superhumanly agile characters (Wolverine & Nightcrawler), Spidey is exceptional in agility department but i still think that thought-controlled visor, spatial awareness, considerable distance, Cyke's accuracy and the speed of the optic blasts are great factors for Cyke to win 7-8/10...

Originally posted by Metalmanx
6. Clayface
Cyke 5/10. Tie.

* uhm, how did this became a tie? according to the stipulations, Cyke is prohibited to use his mega blasts... i still think Clayface wins 10/10... because i can't think of a way how Cyke can defeat him... smile

Master Crimzon

Originally posted by Mindset
Yes, because Cap is prone to lying and boasting about skills he doesn't have. no expression

It could very well be that he isn't even aware of all martial arts in existence.

Still, he referred to himself as an 'adept'. Batman is a master of 'virtually every combat form'; yeah, master > adept.

Master Crimzon

Originally posted by peejayd
* faster and better reflexes are not factors in quick draw... Cyke's visor is THOUGHT-CONTROLLED & NEURAL-ACTIVATED, which means the moment Cyke thinks, the visor automatically opens... my argument - that Cyke would blast Bats even before Bats drawing any gadget - still stands..

Batman is one fast son of a *****. If they start a considerable distance away, don't you think he could... ehh... dodge, and flash bomb Cyclops?

Originally posted by peejayd
* the H2H scenario is only a "what if" Bats managed to close the distance between them... which has very low percentage...

* what would prevent Cyke? Cyke is an aikido & judo expert, plus if Bats is close, he would be a bigger target for a close range/point blank optic blast...

Batman once 'lol'd at the skills of an uber martial arts expert; Cyclops may be good at Aikido and Judo, but he isn't even close to a master of all fighting forms in existence. Batman is also in better shape.

Originally posted by peejayd
* Cyke wins over Bats 7-8/10... the 2-3/10 instances Bats would manage to strike a one-hit KO...

Seems reasonable. I disagree, but that's not very unreasonable.

Originally posted by peejayd
* might be, if the battle is with prep... but Cyke is a master strategist & tactician, and if the battle is without prep, Cyke takes this 10/10 with considerable distance...

It doesn't matter whether the battle is with prep; using resourcefulness, cheating, and utilization of the environment, The Joker's intelligence comes into play in a non-prop fight.

Still, you are right about the fact that Cyclops is more than likely to take this fight in long range. Like Batman, the Joker is faster than Cyclops, but unlike Batman, he doesn't have incredible useful gadgets (unless he frags Cykes with a submachine?) for long-ranged assaults. 8 or 9/10 seems plausible.

You agree with me that the Joker would take it in close ranged combat, right?

Metalmanx

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Batman is one fast son of a *****. If they start a considerable distance away, don't you think he could... ehh... dodge, and flash bomb Cyclops?

Batman once 'lol'd at the skills of an uber martial arts expert; Cyclops may be good at Aikido and Judo, but he isn't even close to a master of all fighting forms in existence. Batman is also in better shape.

Seems reasonable. I disagree, but that's not very unreasonable.

It doesn't matter whether the battle is with prep; using resourcefulness, cheating, and utilization of the environment, The Joker's intelligence comes into play in a non-prop fight.

Still, you are right about the fact that Cyclops is more than likely to take this fight in long range. Like Batman, the Joker is faster than Cyclops, but unlike Batman, he doesn't have incredible useful gadgets (unless he frags Cykes with a submachine?) for long-ranged assaults. 8 or 9/10 seems plausible.

You agree with me that the Joker would take it in close ranged combat, right?

What the f**k?

The fuh?

Joker faster than Cyclops? Did I miss something over at DC Comics? When did Joker gain these peak human reflexes and speed, as well as superior martial arts ability? Whether you like it or not, Cyke has been shown, since nearly his creation, to be a highly-accomplished martial artist. Is he on Batman level? No, of course not. But he's easily low 2nd-tier/high 3rd-tier.

Also his reflexes, while not on the league of say Cap or Daredevil, are still EASILY up there. Enough to tag Quicksilver, Northstar, and the like. Then you add in his near-perfect aim and his seemingly-superhuman grasp of spatial awareness and trigonometry?

The MOMENT the light turns green/ref says go/the match starts, Joker has either a huge hole in his torso or no longer has a head. The same goes for Batman. The distance from his opponents doesn't matter at all. It's still a light-speed projectile fired at the rate of the speed of thought. Not even Batman could hope to dodge that.

Oh, and Peejayd, my reasoning for the 2-3/10 against Spidey is because, along with his vastly superhuman speed and reflexes, Spidey's also got something that no one else here has: a spider-sense. That will keep him safely ahead of Cyke's blasts until he can manuever close enough to take Cyke out. But Cyke could still get in a lucky shot, most likely to the environment more than Spidey himself.

And against Clayface, my reasoning was that Cyke wouldn't be able to put him down permanently, but he also wouldn't allow Clayface to get near him. Cyke would most likely be able to blast away any incoming attack from CF, but not actually do him any harm. But hey, that's just me. Maybe I'm missing something on Clayface.

So, in short: Cyke clears most of this list.

peejayd

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Batman is one fast son of a *****. If they start a considerable distance away, don't you think he could... ehh... dodge, and flash bomb Cyclops?

* i'm not taking away anything from Batman, as they say, he's a pinnacle of human perfection... the dodging and flash bombing thingy, it could happen... however, if there's considerable amount of distance, my money is on Cyke... consider these factors:

>> thought-controlled/neural-activated visor - Cyke will just look, think, blast... takes less than a second...

>> accuracy/speed - Cyke was able to tag speedsters and super-agile characters... heck, he was able to blast an opponent's leg while doing a cartwheel... he was also able to disarm several soldiers in one blast...

>> spatial awareness - he can ricochet his blasts in near-impossible trigonometric/geomtric angles of his liking...

>> speed of the blast - it may or may not travel as fast as the speed of light, but you get the picture...

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Batman once 'lol'd at the skills of an uber martial arts expert; Cyclops may be good at Aikido and Judo, but he isn't even close to a master of all fighting forms in existence. Batman is also in better shape.

* i know... Batman, without a shadow of a doubt, is better than Cyke in H2H department... my point is, Cyke who is an expert in Aikido & Judo might be able buy little time to make a point blank/close range optic blast, Batman would be much easier to tag if he's closer, and it would be much more difficult for Batman to dodge the blast in point blank/close range...

* that's the reason i'm giving Batman 2-3/10 chance that he would be able to strike a one-hit KO on Cyke if, and only if, Batman managed to get close to Cyke...

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Seems reasonable. I disagree, but that's not very unreasonable.

* thank you... smile

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
It doesn't matter whether the battle is with prep; using resourcefulness, cheating, and utilization of the environment, The Joker's intelligence comes into play in a non-prop fight.

* my idea is also just like it's with Batman... the difference is, Joker's intelligence is close to insane/psychotic level...

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Still, you are right about the fact that Cyclops is more than likely to take this fight in long range. Like Batman, the Joker is faster than Cyclops, but unlike Batman, he doesn't have incredible useful gadgets (unless he frags Cykes with a submachine?) for long-ranged assaults. 8 or 9/10 seems plausible.

* i might consider Batman and Joker to have quicker reflexes than Cyke... but still, thought-controlled visor >>> quick reflexes, am i right?

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
You agree with me that the Joker would take it in close ranged combat, right?

* well, yeah, kinda, sorta... Joker cheats more than Batman though... i probably give 3-4/10 chance... smile

peejayd

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Oh, and Peejayd, my reasoning for the 2-3/10 against Spidey is because, along with his vastly superhuman speed and reflexes, Spidey's also got something that no one else here has: a spider-sense. That will keep him safely ahead of Cyke's blasts until he can manuever close enough to take Cyke out. But Cyke could still get in a lucky shot, most likely to the environment more than Spidey himself.

* i was thinking Cyke knows the spider-sense thingamajig... i remember Daredevil deliberately throwing half of the billy-club recklessly, which Spidey easily dodged, and DD tagged Spidey with the other half, explaining the spider-sense can track anything but not everything... using that logic, how about bombarding Spidey with several small optic blasts? like what he did to Storm (i think he was mind-controlled back then) or just like when he disarmed several soldiers? smile

vansonbee

Originally posted by peejayd
* i was thinking Cyke knows the spider-sense thingamajig... i remember Daredevil deliberately throwing half of the billy-club recklessly, which Spidey easily dodged, and DD tagged Spidey with the other half, explaining the spider-sense can track anything but not everything... using that logic, how about bombarding Spidey with several small optic blasts? like what he did to Storm (i think he was mind-controlled back then) or just like when he disarmed several soldiers? smile

Spider Sense happens on sudden body part of spiderman?
-cyclop blast spiderman from right side at his arm, will his arm tingle or his whole body?

Master Crimzon

Originally posted by peejayd
* i'm not taking away anything from Batman, as they say, he's a pinnacle of human perfection... the dodging and flash bombing thingy, it could happen... however, if there's considerable amount of distance, my money is on Cyke... consider these factors:

>> thought-controlled/neural-activated visor - Cyke will just look, think, blast... takes less than a second...

>> accuracy/speed - Cyke was able to tag speedsters and super-agile characters... heck, he was able to blast an opponent's leg while doing a cartwheel... he was also able to disarm several soldiers in one blast...

>> spatial awareness - he can ricochet his blasts in near-impossible trigonometric/geomtric angles of his liking...

>> speed of the blast - it may or may not travel as fast as the speed of light, but you get the picture...

Cyclops is indeed uber, but please look at the bigger picture. Batman was able to dodge Mr. Freeze's laser blasts (which could, plausibly, move as fast as Cyclop's optic blasts) at absolute point-blank range using simple gymnastics. Now, considering they- according to you- start a considerable distance away, it is logical that Batman could dodge it- he dodged a similar beam at point-blank range.

Flash bomb, batarang to the face, Leopard Blow. Seems plausible enough. All in all, I'd give Bats a 7/10 chance to beat Cyclops.

Originally posted by peejayd
* i know... Batman, without a shadow of a doubt, is better than Cyke in H2H department... my point is, Cyke who is an expert in Aikido & Judo might be able buy little time to make a point blank/close range optic blast, Batman would be much easier to tag if he's closer, and it would be much more difficult for Batman to dodge the blast in point blank/close range...

Not if Cyclops is blinded. Batman can KO him with one hit, potentially.

Originally posted by peejayd
* that's the reason i'm giving Batman 2-3/10 chance that he would be able to strike a one-hit KO on Cyke if, and only if, Batman managed to get close to Cyke...

Alright.

Originally posted by peejayd
* thank you... smile

No problem. I respect it when my opponents make reasonable arguments. smile

Originally posted by peejayd
* my idea is also just like it's with Batman... the difference is, Joker's intelligence is close to insane/psychotic level...

The Joker is Batman's mental equal; his psychoticness (or, defined better, 'super sanity') allows him to think in ways regular people can not.

Originally posted by peejayd
* i might consider Batman and Joker to have quicker reflexes than Cyke... but still, thought-controlled visor >>> quick reflexes, am i right?

Yeah. But Batman did dodge these beams, and Joker DID stun Batman with his speed.

Still, the Joker, unlike Batman, isn't a superbly trained combatant. He should die against Cyclops.

Originally posted by peejayd
* well, yeah, kinda, sorta... Joker cheats more than Batman though... i probably give 3-4/10 chance... smile

The Joker is a cheater by nature; however, he also defeated people far larger than himself without any sort of cheating or apparent effort.

In the Joker: Devil's Advocate, he beats the crap out of a heavy guy in for '80' murders who intends to kill him, without any apparent effort. It takes 3 guards to restrain him.

Also, after shooting Zatanna in the throat, the Joker incapacitates Batman.

There, the Joker displays considerable skill by giving Batman a powerful kick to the face (causing him to bleed, no less), ducking under his punch, and stabbing him with a sword.

Add that to knives and a very lethal joy buzzer in H2H and the Joker should take an H2H fight with Cyclops.

It won't get to that, though.

Silent Master

Cyclops can and has fired blasts so large that Batman would have no chance of dodging them.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/6/76674559_1ae9cb838d_m.jpg

Master Crimzon

ExodusCloak

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Does it take charging time? Can it only be used under circumstance? What?

All it requires is Cyclops to remove his visor. It should also be noted that Cyclops powers were further upgraded after that incident in Civil War: X-Men.

vansonbee

Originally posted by Silent Master
Cyclops can and has fired blasts so large that Batman would have no chance of dodging them.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/6/76674559_1ae9cb838d_m.jpg
THESE GUYS JUST DON'T EXCEPT CYCLOP WIN THIS GAUNTLET AGAINST BATMAN!

---------
IN THESE DEBATES WE JUST USE COMMON SENSE WITH CHARCTER FULLEST CURRENT ABILITIES AND EQUIPMENT.
(DEPENDING ON OP rules: Scenarios and location.)

BATMAN FANS KEEP STATING HE DODGE INCOMING RANGE ATTACK LIKE ITS A SPECIAL ABILITY OR SOMETHING, USING POSSIBILITIES INSTEAD OF OVERALL SUMMERY THAT CYCLOP HAS BETTER CHANCE OF WINNING... roll eyes (sarcastic)

sorry for caps, was halfway when I realize it.

ExodusCloak

Originally posted by vansonbee
THESE GUYS JUST DON'T EXCEPT CYCLOP WIN THIS GAUNTLET AGAINST BATMAN!

---------
IN THESE DEBATES WE JUST USE COMMON SENSE WITH CHARCTER FULLEST CURRENT ABILITIES AND EQUIPMENT.
(DEPENDING ON OP rules: Scenarios and location.)

BATMAN FANS KEEP STATING HE DODGE INCOMING RANGE ATTACK LIKE ITS A SPECIAL ABILITY OR SOMETHING, USING POSSIBILITIES INSTEAD OF OVERALL SUMMERY THAT CYCLOP HAS BETTER CHANCE OF WINNING... roll eyes (sarcastic)

sorry for caps, was halfway when I realize it.

Well to be fair they're perfectly entitled to their opinions. You and I may not disagree but there's really no point in going around in circles. Stating it once should suffice, if they disagree then all the best to them. That's probably the only good piece of advice that I can offer in this situation.

Master Crimzon

sorry for caps, was halfway when I realize it.

no expression

That's all I have to say.

vansonbee

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
no expression

That's all I have to say.
I like Batman alot, but I am saying just don't compare him to impossible character in straight up scenario. I am sure Batman can take on Deadpool, Wolverine, Daredevil and win

Not killed, but beaten! big grin

victory Gloat! laughing

Master Crimzon

Originally posted by vansonbee
I like Batman alot, but I am saying just don't compare him to impossible character in straight up scenario. I am sure Batman can take on Deadpool, Wolverine, Daredevil and win

Not killed, but beaten! big grin

victory Gloat! laughing

Are you bein' sarcastic?

I think that the whole idea of "Non superhuman being can't take a superhuman being! pfft!" is ridiculous. Batman beat his share of superhumans.

And if Cyclops removes his visor he decimates everyone here, I s'pose.

vansonbee

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Are you bein' sarcastic?

I think that the whole idea of "Non superhuman being can't take a superhuman being! pfft!" is ridiculous. Batman beat his share of superhumans.

And if Cyclops removes his visor he decimates everyone here, I s'pose.

Then you agree, with me part of it so far?

So were halfway there then. Cyclop take this majority evil face

Master Crimzon

Originally posted by vansonbee
Then you agree, with me part of it so far?

So were halfway there then. Cyclop take this majority evil face

If he removes his visor. If he doesn't, I still believe in my original theory.

vansonbee

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
If he removes his visor. If he doesn't, I still believe in my original theory.
Senario #1
Original theory of Batman grabbing his Gas Smokescreens and batarang and then toss both of them and ducking out of the way and get closer? (lots of and...)

Cyclop at that moment after seeing Batman(as Batman see him) react by blasting him and staying on consistency blast hitting the batarang/clearing smokescreen with his Beam following Batman. Because of the Surrounding Cyclop can just spam the area with small blasts

Like you said on top about Mr. Freeze nice gun. Its not consistence Blast.

senario #2

Wide blast, Batman=dead

Master Crimzon

Originally posted by vansonbee
Senario #1
Original theory of Batman grabbing his Gas Smokescreens and batarang and then toss both of them and ducking out of the way and get closer? (lots of and...)

Cyclop at that moment after seeing Batman(as Batman see him) react by blasting him and staying on consistency blast hitting the batarang/clearing smokescreen with his Beam following Batman. Because of the Surrounding Cyclop can just spam the area with small blasts

Like you said on top about Mr. Freeze nice gun. Its not consistence Blast.

senario #2

Wide blast, Batman=dead

Eh? Sorry, if Cyclops is blinded, it will take very little to incapacitate him. Scenario 2 is correct, but I'd say Bats has Scenario 1.

peejayd

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Cyclops is indeed uber, but please look at the bigger picture. Batman was able to dodge Mr. Freeze's laser blasts (which could, plausibly, move as fast as Cyclop's optic blasts) at absolute point-blank range using simple gymnastics. Now, considering they- according to you- start a considerable distance away, it is logical that Batman could dodge it- he dodged a similar beam at point-blank range.

Flash bomb, batarang to the face, Leopard Blow. Seems plausible enough. All in all, I'd give Bats a 7/10 chance to beat Cyclops.

* i see your point... just a clarification, is Mr. Freeze's laser blasts came from a gun, and the likes? if that's what it was, even if it was in point blank range, Mr. Freeze still had to aim to Batman... all Cyke gotta do is just look at Batman, the visor opens the moment Cyke thinks and ZAKT!!! smile

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
The Joker is a cheater by nature; however, he also defeated people far larger than himself without any sort of cheating or apparent effort.

In the Joker: Devil's Advocate, he beats the crap out of a heavy guy in for '80' murders who intends to kill him, without any apparent effort. It takes 3 guards to restrain him.

Also, after shooting Zatanna in the throat, the Joker incapacitates Batman.

There, the Joker displays considerable skill by giving Batman a powerful kick to the face (causing him to bleed, no less), ducking under his punch, and stabbing him with a sword.

Add that to knives and a very lethal joy buzzer in H2H and the Joker should take an H2H fight with Cyclops.

It won't get to that, though.

* that Joker's freakin' insane!

Master Crimzon

Originally posted by peejayd
* i see your point... just a clarification, is Mr. Freeze's laser blasts came from a gun, and the likes? if that's what it was, even if it was in point blank range, Mr. Freeze still had to aim to Batman... all Cyke gotta do is just look at Batman, the visor opens the moment Cyke thinks and ZAKT!!! smile

That doesn't change a thing, because they will be at longer range AND Cyclops will still have to aim.

Originally posted by peejayd
* that Joker's freakin' insane!

Yes. big grin

Well, he's still insane in the way that he is able to be a calculating genius. His insanity is his power.

peejayd

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
That doesn't change a thing, because they will be at longer range AND Cyclops will still have to aim.

* not if it's Cyclops, he actually needs not to aim, all he needs is to look, think & out comes the optic blast with the speed of light... he would hit any target he sees... you can join us in the Cyclops vs. Batman thread... smile

Master Crimzon

Originally posted by peejayd
* not if it's Cyclops, he actually needs not to aim, all he needs is to look, think & out comes the optic blast with the speed of light... he would hit any target he sees... you can join us in the Cyclops vs. Batman thread... smile

Well, if you can prove Cyclops' beams do truly come at the speed of light, and even if something states as much, prove that said statement is not hyperbole, I'll concede the argument. Batman can't dodge light-speed level beams.

Metalmanx

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Well, if you can prove Cyclops' beams do truly come at the speed of light, and even if something states as much, prove that said statement is not hyperbole, I'll concede the argument. Batman can't dodge light-speed level beams.

Here's one.

http://img62.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cyclopsspeedoflightlb1.jpg

Master Crimzon

Weird.

Has any normal, unenhanced human being ever dodged Cyclops' beam?

Just a few questions. If the answer to the above question is 'no', I concede the argument.

Metalmanx

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Weird.

Has any normal, unenhanced human being ever dodged Cyclops' beam?

Just a few questions. If the answer to the above question is 'no', I concede the argument.

To my knowledge? No. No normal, unenhanced human being has ever dodged Cyke's beam.

Master Crimzon

Originally posted by Metalmanx
To my knowledge? No. No normal, unenhanced human being has ever dodged Cyke's beam.

Argument conceded. Cykes takes a fight with Batman 7/10.

vansonbee

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Argument conceded. Cykes takes a fight with Batman 7/10. Well one person is realizing the outcome. Couple more to go.

YES CYCLOP CAN FIGHT* pretty well I might add
Here a Link to Cyclop fighting a group of thugs, while blind
http://www.mutanthigh.com/games/martialarts/fight6.html

Here a scan of Cyclop fighting blind with sword against monster.
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/8260/blind2fightrp6.th.jpg
Cyclop being Durable
*take take-down from Colossus, broke a rib ouch!
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/9339/colossusdurablerh9.th.jpg
Even with broken ribs he blast Colossus away and hitting even Night Crawler(*agility teleportation) and other X-men at the sametime, who said he stand and blast Batman*
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/1459/colossusdurable1vp5.th.jpg
Sentinel pimp slap Cyclop and he takes its and then retaliates
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/5463/sentinelsdurablemh7.th.jpg
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/9586/novisorzb8.th.jpg
He dodge lightingbolts from Storm, when he was accused of betraying the X-men and hit her with pinpoint accuracy from afar.
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/4060/dodginglightinggk8.th.jpg
Feats showing Cyclop tactics during Battle!
Piss Wolverine to release his stress, dodges Wolverine intent to kill Cyclop with ease.
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/1743/tactics2de9.th.jpg
Using his head during battle, he grasp his environment to his advantage.
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/2299/tactics1dw0.th.jpg
and here
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/5300/multitacticshotqk1.th.jpg

Taking all this in, Batman chances in straight up fight will be difficult. 7/10 for cyclop. First Batman has to pass cyclop beams which are accurate. Cyclop can also defend himself in H2H combat and dodge and step back for another blast.