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The best swordsmen square off.

Captain-Sephiroth
Dante
Sora

vs

Captain-Kratos
Cloud
Link

Which team is the best?

team one turn team 2 into lunch

k1Lla441 thinks team 2 would win easily because they have Kratos. Do you think Sephiroth could take him?

I dont know about Sephiroth, but Dante could take most of team 2 with fair ease alone.

Don't you think he would use sin harvest angel on Kratos, and beat him like that?

This fight kind of a blow out cus link sucks compared to team 1, and cloud just drags the team down more. if kratos was put with some decent people, then team 2 wins. but in this fight, sorry kratos, team 1 wins.

Originally posted by Wil7
Don't you think he would use sin harvest angel on Kratos, and beat him like that?

heartless angel is a move based completly around gameplay thus it cannot truly be used in a real battle since its not debatable from any view point, also depending on what one it is, heartless angel may be slow cast which is worthless.

either way, Dante can kill Team 2 faster than his team members are likely to react to anyway.

Dante is not as fast as lightning and Kratos fought and deflected that just fine.

Kratos kills their baby selves ftw.

Link can one hit all but Sora with Light Arrows.

Cloud can take Sora pretty handily.

In fact, why is Sora considered one of the best swordsman?

He has like...No skill with a sword.

He almost entirely relys on the power of the Keyblade to help him.

What about Sephiroth Dark-Jaxx in you r opinion?

sephiroth dukes it out with cloud for a while before losing

dante kills kratos and link after an average fight for him

sora easily destroyes team two before they can even comprehend what is happening to them.

Dante can't kill Kratos.

Kratos is literally the God of Time now.

He could solo the team easily simply by teleporting to when Sephiroth and Dante were in their mother's wounds, and before Sora ever got the Keyblade.

Sora isn't that fast. Not by a longshot.

Kratos solos.

dante has time warping powers and also the power to RESIST time warps against him.

sora also has time warping powers, but more importantly, he has the power to defeat being with the power to destroy universe/s .
and sora deflects beams of light.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
dante has time warping powers and also the power to RESIST time warps against him.

sora also has time warping powers, but more importantly, he has the power to defeat being with the power to destroy universe/s .
and sora deflects beams of light. You don't get it. Kratos literally TRAVELS through time at will now. He is literally the God of Time, having stolen the power of the Sisters of Fate. He can travel to when he was in his mother's womb and kill her.

Like I said, travel to when Sora was but a wee boy swinging a wooden sword. Destroy universes? Never happened.

Beams of light that do not move at lightspeed.

Whereas Kratos has blocked and deflected actual lightning from the God of Thunder himself.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Link can one hit all but Sora with Light Arrows.

Light Arrows aren't as powerful as you think.

Um, yeah they are.

No their not. I doubt it would 1 hit someone with a regenerative factor like Dante.

Dante has never regenerated a head.

Didn't Kratos lose the time powers at the end of GOW2, expending the last of them to bring the Titans to the present?

Though, if he still retained them, this is spite. Though, time travel could be considered BFR. if he can just time rewind them back to kids, then it's spite. It would take Darkseid level power to beat that.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Didn't Kratos lose the time powers at the end of GOW2, expending the last of them to bring the Titans to the present?

Though, if he still retained them, this is spite. Though, time travel could be considered BFR. if he can just time rewind them back to kids, then it's spite. It would take Darkseid level power to beat that. What?

When was that ever said?

It is only BFR if the opponent would be unable to make it back to the battlefield. Kratos would be able to.

It is cheap. But it is possible.

Isn,t a light arrow a magic arrow?

Kratos goes making out with Tifa and Princess Peach. Cloud and Link get mad and start beating the crap out of Kratos but the god of war fights back. Hours later, there's a blood bath and Sephiroth, Dante, and Sora arrive at the scene.

Sephiroth - WTF happened here?

lol

yes but there is a problem with time powers like that, they can be used to destroy practically ANY1 in the universe, heck even the universe itself, but its doesnt allude to actual battle prowess of a character. also, if he went to kill dante as a baby, hed probably have to face sparda.
and yes, each locatin in kingdom hearts is a world in itself, and at worst, both xemnas and xeonheart's heartless were universal threats.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
yes but there is a problem with time powers like that, they can be used to destroy practically ANY1 in the universe, heck even the universe itself, but its doesnt allude to actual battle prowess of a character. also, if he went to kill dante as a baby, hed probably have to face sparda.
and yes, each locatin in kingdom hearts is a world in itself, and at worst, both xemnas and xeonheart's heartless were universal threats. It is within Kratos' natural powerset, he is essentially the God of Time now. Was Sparda around when Dante was a baby? As in did he help raise him? Lol no. Each location in KH is a planet. And no one has any feat in KH that says they could destroy the universe, so no, you are wrong.

wrong, the WORLDS are seperated by dimensional barriers, and appear as STARS in the night sky. also, they just look like planets for comical/disneyish affect. do you honestly beleive that kingdom hearts cud fit in a PLANET???? and either way, kingdom hearts is the heart of ALL worlds{implying a whole universe at WORST} hence making them universal threats.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
wrong, the WORLDS are seperated by dimensional barriers, and appear as STARS in the night sky. also, they just look like planets for comical/disneyish affect. do you honestly beleive that kingdom hearts cud fit in a PLANET???? and either way, kingdom hearts is the heart of ALL worlds{implying a whole universe at WORST} hence making them universal threats. But neither of them had the full power of KH.

Xemnas only had a splintered fraction.

so? i didnt say they HAD the entire power of the universe/multiverse. i said they were a THREAT to the universe/multiverse

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
It is within Kratos' natural powerset, he is essentially the God of Time now. Was Sparda around when Dante was a baby? As in did he help raise him? Lol no. Each location in KH is a planet. And no one has any feat in KH that says they could destroy the universe, so no, you are wrong.

Eva died when Dante\Vergil were 8 years old. Sparda has died or disappeared a few years before that...his parents actually lived together before that.
So here's actually the case when leon's right at least partially... though DMC chronology is one f*cked up thing. And controlling strings of time or WTF was it called for Kratos makes it spite. Dante's time manipulation is limited only to chronofreeze, not temporal reality manip aka reversing the chronophase of your opponent to turn him into baby etc.

Dark-Jaxx, and despite technically Dante doesn't move at lightning speeds (aka 1\2 of the light speed), his Alastor speedboost actually gives him around Max10 combat speed...plus the abilities of combat teleportation. So in pure combat speed he's faster that Kratos and can resist time freeze from him (in fact I think that if Kratos and Dante both use timestop on each other, it would negate each other but they'll temporary freeze their teammates). And Dante is better swordsman than brute Kratos- more fast and agile, though Kratos is A LOT STRONGER than Dante.

The Team wit Dante on it.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Eva died when Dante\Vergil were 8 years old. Sparda has died or disappeared a few years before that...his parents actually lived together before that.
So here's actually the case when leon's right at least partially... though DMC chronology is one f*cked up thing. And controlling strings of time or WTF was it called for Kratos makes it spite. Dante's time manipulation is limited only to chronofreeze, not temporal reality manip aka reversing the chronophase of your opponent to turn him into baby etc.

Dark-Jaxx, and despite technically Dante doesn't move at lightning speeds (aka 1\2 of the light speed), his Alastor speedboost actually gives him around Max10 combat speed...plus the abilities of combat teleportation. So in pure combat speed he's faster that Kratos and can resist time freeze from him (in fact I think that if Kratos and Dante both use timestop on each other, it would negate each other but they'll temporary freeze their teammates). And Dante is better swordsman than brute Kratos- more fast and agile, though Kratos is A LOT STRONGER than Dante. ...Oh. Lol. Mesa did not know that. But regardless, isn't Dante himself actually stronger than Sparda was?

2. ...Leon is right? This is a concept I struggle with. mmm



Kratos actually does not need the strings, such as when he teleported all the Titans(you know, that little army of 1,000 foot tall people) to the present to fight Zeus. Which means that Kratos also has a way to BFR Dante as well. mmm

3. In terms of pure combat speed and even movement speed I agree, but Kratos has shown the reflexes to block or dodge lightning speed attacks, I do not think Dante could resist Kratos' time powers simply because they are on a much greater scale than Dante's IMO. Dante due to his speed is a faster swordsman, but more skilled I would not say so. He is a "natural", and also had the help of superhuman attributes to aid him, whereas most of Kratos' life he was little different than a normal human.

And yeah, Kratos is stronger than Dante...I really cannot see what is so hard to see about that.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
...Oh. Lol. Mesa did not know that. But regardless, isn't Dante himself actually stronger than Sparda was?

2. ...Leon is right? This is a concept I struggle with. mmm



Kratos actually does not need the strings, such as when he teleported all the Titans(you know, that little army of 1,000 foot tall people) to the present to fight Zeus. Which means that Kratos also has a way to BFR Dante as well. mmm

3. In terms of pure combat speed and even movement speed I agree, but Kratos has shown the reflexes to block or dodge lightning speed attacks, I do not think Dante could resist Kratos' time powers simply because they are on a much greater scale than Dante's IMO. Dante due to his speed is a faster swordsman, but more skilled I would not say so. He is a "natural", and also had the help of superhuman attributes to aid him, whereas most of Kratos' life he was little different than a normal human.

And yeah, Kratos is stronger than Dante...I really cannot see what is so hard to see about that.

I was struggling as well.
Dante at full power has surpassed his dad, but his father was the best and strongest warlord ever in the armies of Hell, and was good enough to banish those armies singlehandely when he rebelled to protect the mankind. So he's no shit as well and actually more brutal fighter than his son- Dante is a little more tame due to his human nature.
As for dodging lightning attack- Dante has dodged magic lightning from Gryphon, and said Blitzes, has combat teleportation that is useful in terms of dodging as well. As you've said, Dante's "natural" but he likes to improvise in a fight and his improvistaion skills is what makes him that good of a fighter.
I think more of the timepowers negating each other when they overlap- and Dante's Quicksilver anomaly is omnidirectional but limited aproximately to 200 metres around him. The anomalies would partially cross each other over.
But Kratos time manipulation much more versatile than Dante, and if Kratos goes for something else that simple timestop (partially negated with similiar power), Kratos easily wins. Dante's time manipulation is limited and not on the level of the god of time (though in DMC2 Dante was using amulet with "heart of god of time" for more control over that power, such as freezing enemies in time selectively instead of creating omnidirectional anomaly, his power in that regard never went beyond slowing\stoping time).

Kratos is a beast but if team 2 wins- that's only because of Kratos and his god of time abilities to screw with team one, as Link and Cloud are relatively weak. Team 1 is more balanced in terms of power.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/907849/killer_bean_forever_official_trailer/

You can express your hate towards Dante by laughing on that parody, Dark-Jaxx.

Sephiroth would solo both of his team mates and all of team 2 at the same time with ease, team 1 is guaranteed victory here.

Dante would crush Sephiroth like a wet chip

Jaxx seriously where do you get off saying Sora isn't a skilled swordsman? Everything he does in kingdom hearts says he is. In fact he has more impressive sword displays than those who are known for being swordsmen like Link. Sometimes I think the only way for you to interpret things Jaxx is if someone draws a map for you or somebody says it out right in game or on panel. Otherwise you seem to have no interpretation skills.

...Razor, wtf are you doing in game vs?

And Sora shows no real swordplay, his fighting abilities rely almost entirely on the power of the Keyblade. Without it, he ain't shit.

GTFO, go back to wanking Naruto.

Lol I love how you explode when you know your wrong. So your taking the fact that he upgrades throughout the game as that he has no skill of his own? Then that makes just about everybody on this list powerless. Also I was unaware that you controlled where people go on the forums. I seriously think you believe you control the forums. I also like how you flip-flop. All of a sudden now having power bestowed upon you, enhancing your abilities makes you bad?

Ime confused, Jaxx said without the Keyblade he aint shit, does that mean he is saying Sora is great without it?

OR i belive your saying that when hes got the keyblade, Sora becomes a piece of shit?

both of those could make sense in those lines but ime still confused.

Originally posted by razor4life
Lol I love how you explode when you know your wrong. So your taking the fact that he upgrades throughout the game as that he has no skill of his own? Then that makes just about everybody on this list powerless. Also I was unaware that you controlled where people go on the forums. I seriously think you believe you control the forums. I also like how you flip-flop. All of a sudden now having power bestowed upon you, enhancing your abilities makes you bad? BT, without the Keyblade, Sora is about as useful as an un-potty trained labradoodle in a fight.

The upgrades? You mean the several flashy explosions and supernatural melee attacks he gets, that rely upon the power of the Keyblade?

Sora essentially wields the Keyblade as if it is a friggin baseball bat.

labradoodles are pretty damb strong, planet busters or so ive heard in their prime

Again I repeat. Your saying having powers bestowed upon you that enhance you means your useless? Who cares if those are his natural abilities or keyblade bestowed. They are still his abilities. He can just time stop or make himself invulnerable. Also having supernatural sword skills is useless too? Seriously dude please keep showing that you just don't like the character.

are these his magic? the invuleralbe and time stops or items?

I'm at work so I don't have complete access to the internet. I'll get back to you on the invulnerability one(can't remember if it's a spell or an item). The time stop is a spell. He can also reflect magic enhance his speed, heal himself, create a magnetic field, etc. There's much more that he can do but I'm not at home so I can't check my KH2 save or check online.

Originally posted by razor4life
Again I repeat. Your saying having powers bestowed upon you that enhance you means your useless? Who cares if those are his natural abilities or keyblade bestowed. They are still his abilities. He can just time stop or make himself invulnerable. Also having supernatural sword skills is useless too? Seriously dude please keep showing that you just don't like the character. I said he didn't have any real swordskill. Which is true. If it weren't for the Keyblade's power, he might as well be wielding a baseball bat.

The keyblade is very much a part of him now. His sword skilsl without it are moot. Even when sepereated from the blade it will return to him. All the keyblade does is enhance his abilties, the blade isn't controlling him you know. Without the keyblade though he is just a regular kid. It's kinda like Billy/Captain Marvel(kinda).

Dude, you are COMPLETELY missing my point.

In terms of raw swordskill, Sora is an amateur at best, he wields it like a baseball bat, he is the least SKILLED here.

I'm not missing your point at all. Just because he has an unconventional way of holding his blade and fighting with it doesn't make him any less of a swordsman than the guys that use it in a conventional manner. The cut scenes and game play show that he is very good at using the key blade. Lets not forget the parrying feat he has that is very impressive. Many young sword wielding video game characters start out as clumsy and unskilled. I think it's safe to say in KH2 he is a skilled blade user. Sure his form is wacky but skilled none the less. Even his raw skill is debatable.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Dude, you are COMPLETELY missing my point.

In terms of raw swordskill, Sora is an amateur at best, he wields it like a baseball bat, he is the least SKILLED here.

Sora can one shot skyscrapers and block LASERS.

Sure he wields it like a baseball bat, but it works.

...and Sora has beaten Cloud and a bunch of other FF characters AT ONCE before.


BTW, Hi! I'm new.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Dante is not as fast as lightning and Kratos fought and deflected that just fine.

Kratos kills their baby selves ftw.

Link can one hit all but Sora with Light Arrows.

Cloud can take Sora pretty handily.

In fact, why is Sora considered one of the best swordsman?

He has like...No skill with a sword.

He almost entirely relys on the power of the Keyblade to help him.
when you put it like that team 2 wins

Originally posted by k1Lla441
when you put it like that team 2 wins

Saying Sora is an amatuer swordsman is stupid for the following reasons.

Number one, Roxas derived all of his techniques from Sora (Roxas is his half), and if you watch the Deep Dive trailer and then say Roxas has no sword skills, I would recommend that you get help, fast.

But if you're still not convinced, watch the cutscene where Sora and Roxas fight on the light circle (in the dark abyss). Not only does Sora know how to attack he knows how to dodge and defend, and he has as much airborne fighting ability as Cloud does (note I said airborne ability, I am not saying he's equal, worse, or better).

But there's a lot of other events showing Sora's "amatuer" skills as someone likes to call it.

Had Sora been an amatuer he would have been pwned on the third world. However he made it through 20 something worlds, and know, it is not the keyblade giving him the skills. However, in his Final Form, he can use the KeybladeS to attack for themselves as he has that ability in this particular form.

As for the entire match, Team one for me. Sephiroth versus Kratos, from what I've seen Seph. Dante and Cloud, lol. Sora and Link..the problem here is I don't see Sora giving Link time to pull off any fancy crap. He can shorten the distance between them near instantly. Then again, I don't see how any of the people from team one can't.

Sora has Stopga.

Dante has Quicksilver.

Sephiroth has Slowga (or whatever the time spell is in FF7).

Not saying no one from Team 1 doesn't have this, but I doubt it will prevail this time.

Who knows, I may change my vote later on if I'm convinced.

Edit: After reading some posts I have to ask a question.

First of all, why are we assuming this is Kratos at the end of GoW (or when he's a god)? And secondly regarding his time warping ability, I would like to know how fast he can pull this off. Dante can (my guess) do it about instantly. Sephiroth, no idea, but I know for a fact Stopga in Kingdom Hearts takes about 1/4 of a second to do.

In simper terms, whichever team can freeze the other team wins, as they can both pretty much kill each other. "Immortality" does not justify a win. You can be immortal and be killed, which is not the same as dying permanently. Take Zasalamel (Soul Calibur) for example and you'll get the point.

I meant not saying no one from Team 2 doesn't have time abilities.

Finally if someone feels like posting some vids of Link doing stuff that would be great, never got into the Zelda series.

Edit: Btw, this is the last thing I'm going to point out regarding Sora's amatuer skills.

Originally posted by razor4life
I'm not missing your point at all. Just because he has an unconventional way of holding his blade and fighting with it doesn't make him any less of a swordsman than the guys that use it in a conventional manner. The cut scenes and game play show that he is very good at using the key blade. Lets not forget the parrying feat he has that is very impressive. Many young sword wielding video game characters start out as clumsy and unskilled. I think it's safe to say in KH2 he is a skilled blade user. Sure his form is wacky but skilled none the less. Even his raw skill is debatable.
The reaction commands themselves in the game show more fighting skill that your average swordsman. Someone in particular should check out the ones Sora does (especially) in boss fights. Then there's the fact Sora knows how to work in teams very well (reaction command with Auron) Sora is perhaps almost the definition of "skill" in Kingdom Hearts 2.

I'll probably be back with lots of videos. Lots.

Sephiroth kills Cloud
Sora kills Link
Kratos kills Dante
Sephiroth and Sora kills Kratos

Originally posted by razor4life
I'm not missing your point at all. Just because he has an unconventional way of holding his blade and fighting with it doesn't make him any less of a swordsman than the guys that use it in a conventional manner. The cut scenes and game play show that he is very good at using the key blade. Lets not forget the parrying feat he has that is very impressive. Many young sword wielding video game characters start out as clumsy and unskilled. I think it's safe to say in KH2 he is a skilled blade user. Sure his form is wacky but skilled none the less. Even his raw skill is debatable. Damn, I forgot all about this post.

No, not an unconventional way...He LITERALLY wields it like a baseball bat, he has about as much skill as a thug with a baseball bat would have, if the thug had a degree of superhuman agility.

Very good at using the Keyblade, without it, he can't even hurt a Shadow. But we however know that many other weapons can hurt Heartless, even fists. That says something about Sora.

...Parrying feaqt? What would that be?

His "skill" consists of overpowering opponents with an overpowered weapon, and using his admittedly impressive acrobatic skill and speed. In terms of skill, he is nothing on anyone here.

Originally posted by 4RX
Saying Sora is an amatuer swordsman is stupid for the following reasons.

Number one, Roxas derived all of his techniques from Sora (Roxas is his half), and if you watch the Deep Dive trailer and then say Roxas has no sword skills, I would recommend that you get help, fast.

But if you're still not convinced, watch the cutscene where Sora and Roxas fight on the light circle (in the dark abyss). Not only does Sora know how to attack he knows how to dodge and defend, and he has as much airborne fighting ability as Cloud does (note I said airborne ability, I am not saying he's equal, worse, or better).

But there's a lot of other events showing Sora's "amatuer" skills as someone likes to call it.

Had Sora been an amatuer he would have been pwned on the third world. However he made it through 20 something worlds, and know, it is not the keyblade giving him the skills. However, in his Final Form, he can use the KeybladeS to attack for themselves as he has that ability in this particular form.

As for the entire match, Team one for me. Sephiroth versus Kratos, from what I've seen Seph. Dante and Cloud, lol. Sora and Link..the problem here is I don't see Sora giving Link time to pull off any fancy crap. He can shorten the distance between them near instantly. Then again, I don't see how any of the people from team one can't.

Sora has Stopga.

Dante has Quicksilver.

Sephiroth has Slowga (or whatever the time spell is in FF7).

Not saying no one from Team 1 doesn't have this, but I doubt it will prevail this time.

Who knows, I may change my vote later on if I'm convinced.

Edit: After reading some posts I have to ask a question.

First of all, why are we assuming this is Kratos at the end of GoW (or when he's a god)? And secondly regarding his time warping ability, I would like to know how fast he can pull this off. Dante can (my guess) do it about instantly. Sephiroth, no idea, but I know for a fact Stopga in Kingdom Hearts takes about 1/4 of a second to do.

In simper terms, whichever team can freeze the other team wins, as they can both pretty much kill each other. "Immortality" does not justify a win. You can be immortal and be killed, which is not the same as dying permanently. Take Zasalamel (Soul Calibur) for example and you'll get the point. 1. Roxas is a better swordsman than Sora. How do we know this? In a straight up swordfight, Roxas beat Sora. And it is not like Roxas is some uberzor godzor swordsman either.

2. He knows how to, as I said before, swing his Keyblade like a baseball bat, and his superhuman speed and agility allow him to dodge and block Roxa's blows. And Sora is in no shape or form as skilled a swordsman as Cloud.

3. Sora wields a Keyblade, which is the most powerful weapon in existence rivaled by few other weapons that aren't Keyblades, only forces of the universe like Darkness and Nothingness can rival it. The Keyblade gives him alot of power, it amps magical abilities as well. Final Form is telekinesis, not sword skill.

4. Sephiroth can't beat Kratos. Cloud would lose to Dante, yeah, but Kratos can pretty much solo the field. Sora isn't that fast in CUTSCENES, and certainly is not as fast as a Light Arrow.

Stopga? Well with Materia so does Cloud, and Kratos has literally become the God of Time as of God of War 2.

Once again, God of Time ftw.

Not unless he gets materia.

Kratos can literally travel through time, he controls it.

We assume it is Kratos at the end of God of War 2 because that is the most recent version of Kratos. And Kratos can do it pretty much with a thought. If he wanted to, he could dump the entire opponent's team at the beginning or end of time. Resulting in a BFR.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
You don't get it. Kratos literally TRAVELS through time at will now. He is literally the God of Time, having stolen the power of the Sisters of Fate. He can travel to when he was in his mother's womb and kill her.

Who said that? Noone said it will take place in the Loom Chamber and he can't just "alter" his future. He can only travel WHILE using the mirror. And how is he going to just 'find her'? Kratos is limited, Dante is not. Dante uses QS and puts Kratos back into his original place. And yes, Dante bends time and space as well.

This is SPITE.

Cloud mopes until he's angry to Omnislash, Kratos rips Sora's arms off and boots him cause he gets off on that shit, then Link and Kratos tank/murder Dante and Seph, if Kratos gets a hold on either of them, Link light arrows them, and when Cloud is doen moping he omnislashes the other and Link light arrows them too.

Really its a magic.................

I thought this was spite when I created it, Seph owns the floor with Cloud, Dante beats up Kratos, and Link quickly kills Sora. Then Sephiroth and Dante walk in the park against Link.

my impression was this is a battle with swords? no bull shit powers or other weapons.

In which, team 2 is far superior.

edit: and most of you morons who think Link is inferior to most of these are asinine and uneducated. And TGE, just because Kratos shows himself going back and affecting moments of time in his past, doesn't translate him to be able to manipulate and go to any point in time. Mostl likely he is like Dr. manhattan, and can only go forward or back between moments where he existed and lived.

kratos doesn't have power of time absolute. but in this fight it'd still help him out regardless, since these people would be involved and affected by him going back in time or forward.

He didn't live in the Titans-Gods war, but then again that's PIS.