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who wins?

Well, if Scathan was empowered by TOAA, could he actually stalemate PreR Beyonder? I don't know. Just look what Scathan did to Protege.

I think Scathan is the only one being that is more powerful than PreR MM. I think as what Protege was and in state when he already had all powers of HawkGod, LT and others could battle PreR MM and maybe eventually surpass him due to his powers, but not Pre Beyonder or Scathan.

This is between Scathan and PreR Beyonder. Somehow I am more toward PreR Beyonder, but still, if Scathan was truly empowered by TOAA, which seems he was. You cannot deal with someone unimaginably powerful Protege just like that. LT was afraid of PreR Beyonder, but by his reaction and was shocked, he seemed afraid also of Protege.

In such battle, even Protege power wouldn't help, since we saw he was nothing to Scathan. In such battle, even with all the powers he had, he would be immediately destroyed

Beyonder wins.

Scathan is somewhere above the LT in power, but he's not leagues above LT.
We know this because LT only needed to boost his power with the Amulet to over power Protege,
imo, this boost would've probably put LT = to Scathan, so it's not much.

Beyonder was literally millions of times more powerful than the LT.

I think Scathan was much above LT. Maybe with time Protege could also surpass LT with amulet (that amulet power boost seemed to be far more than all other abstracts powers combined), but I can never see him surpassing Scathan. He was just nothing to him.

But like I said, I am toward PreR Beyonder.

Originally posted by Xplosive

I think Scathan was much above LT.
The details to that, are unknown.

I'm just basing my opinion on the fact that LT surpassed Protege with the Amulet.

The Amulet is powerful,
that's how Dormammu was bale to reach the core of Eternity in 616.
Originally posted by Xplosive

Maybe with time Protege could also surpass LT with amulet
(that amulet power boost seemed to be far more than all other abstracts powers combined)
I wouldn't go that far, the Amulet taps into Eternity's infinite essence.
Originally posted by Xplosive

but I can never see him surpassing Scathan.
He was just nothing to him.
I rather not speculate the unprovable.

I have to say though, it's too much to say LT was nothing to him.

beyonder has more to worry about from owen reese than the lt.

Pre-retcon Beyonder wins.

Going by the logic that Protege copies ones entire power when it's being demonstrated (with exception of Scathan apparently) then I cannot quiet see why People give Pre Retcon Beyonder the win... I mean the instant Beyonder performs a attack of some kind Protege copies his entire power... that would make him, Pre-retcon MM + Beyonder + LT + Hawkgod + Multiversal Eternity.

Originally posted by Utrigita

Going by the logic that Protege copies ones entire power when it's being demonstrated (with exception of Scathan apparently) then I cannot quiet see why People give Pre Retcon Beyonder the win... I mean the instant Beyonder performs a attack of some kind Protege copies his entire power... that would make him, Pre-retcon MM + Beyonder + LT + Hawkgod + Multiversal Eternity.
If Scathan stomped him, so does Beyonder and MM.

Also, Protege doesn't copy the entire power at first glance,
the reason he copied LT's full power I later understood,
is because he copied the LT's judgmental proceeders,
thus copying the LT's status which translates to power:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/737065_Pro6.jpg

Which is why after these proceedings he had transformed into the LT.

I was impressed, I didn't think he could get power this way,
he can take the power of Concepts when they exercise their purpose ... sweet.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Going by the logic that Protege copies ones entire power when it's being demonstrated (with exception of Scathan apparently) then I cannot quiet see why People give Pre Retcon Beyonder the win... I mean the instant Beyonder performs a attack of some kind Protege copies his entire power... that would make him, Pre-retcon MM + Beyonder + LT + Hawkgod + Multiversal Eternity.

Well, logically yes, since Protege didn't shown any limits to his power, except Scathan (we still don't know why). I have no doubt that in time Protege would go beyond LT with amulet, easily. If TOAA is in anyway involved with Scathan, then it's clear why Protege couldn't copy his power or anything, but that cannot be said for PreR Beyonder. Maybe first he would copy PreR MM. Since Protege didn't close shown limits, we can say he could do it, then he would move on with PreR Beyonder.

I just cannot say anything other than TOAA being involved with defeat of Protege, since Protege easily surpassed LT and Scathan cleared with him just like that and we know LT is 2nd to TOAA.
LT+Multi Eternity+others were joke to Protege.
In time, he would go only further.

Beyonder wins.

Originally posted by Mr Master
If Scathan stomped him, so does Beyonder and MM.

Also, Protege doesn't copy the entire power at first glance,
the reason he copied LT's full power I later understood,
is because he copied the LT's judgmental proceeders,
thus copying the LT's status which translates to power:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/737065_Pro6.jpg

Which is why after these proceedings he had transformed into the LT.

Scathan stomped him under unknown circumstances (was he empowered by Toaa etc), because Scathan can defeat Protege I see no reason to suggest that Pre retcon MM and Beyonder can, power doesn't equal that they possesses the same resistance to Protege's ability to copy their powers as scathan did.

Originally posted by Utrigita

Scathan stomped him under unknown circumstances (was he empowered by Toaa etc), because Scathan can defeat Protege I see no reason to suggest that Pre retcon MM and Beyonder can, power doesn't equal that they possesses the same resistance to Protege's ability to copy their powers as scathan did.
Well, LT became powerful enough to deal with Protege after drawing on the Amulet,
the Amulet taps into Eternity's infinity.

So, even if it took LT tapping into Eternity's power to get the edge on Protege,
Beyonder is millions of times that of both LT and Eternity combined.

Protege was not leagues above LT, and Scathan was not leagues above Protege,
remember, they still had to finish off Protege together.

Scathan contained him, LT terminated him.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Well, LT became powerful enough to deal with Protege after drawing on the Amulet,
the Amulet taps into Eternity's infinity.

So, even if it took LT tapping into Eternity's power to get the edge on Protege,
Beyonder is millions of times that of both LT and Eternity combined.

Protege was not leagues above Protege, and Scathan was not leagues above Protege,
remember, they still had to finish off Protege together.

Scathan contained him, LT terminated him.

I realise all that perfectly well, what I fail to see is why Protege is unable to copy Pre retcon Beyonder and Pre retcon Molecule Man's power when nothing suggest that they have the same ability as Scathan to counter Proteges ability to copy their entire powerset when they display it.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Well, LT became powerful enough to deal with Protege after drawing on the Amulet,
the Amulet taps into Eternity's infinity.

So, even if it took LT tapping into Eternity's power to get the edge on Protege,
Beyonder is millions of times that of both LT and Eternity combined.

Protege was not leagues above LT, and Scathan was not leagues above Protege,
remember, they still had to finish off Protege together.

Scathan contained him, LT terminated him.

Yes, but here is PreR MM, more powerful than LT. Who says Protege wouldn't be able to copy him immediately. I think he could and then he would move to battle PreR Beyonder.

Protege has to see Beyonder's power to copy it. If B wants it to be so, he won't see shit, he will only be destroyed.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Well, logically yes, since Protege didn't shown any limits to his power, except Scathan (we still don't know why). I have no doubt that in time Protege would go beyond LT with amulet, easily. If TOAA is in anyway involved with Scathan, then it's clear why Protege couldn't copy his power or anything, but that cannot be said for PreR Beyonder. Maybe first he would copy PreR MM. Since Protege didn't close shown limits, we can say he could do it, then he would move on with PreR Beyonder.

I just cannot say anything other than TOAA being involved with defeat of Protege, since Protege easily surpassed LT and Scathan cleared with him just like that and we know LT is 2nd to TOAA.
LT+Multi Eternity+others were joke to Protege.
In time, he would go only further.
Beyonder = the Marvel prime Multiverse (including LT) millions of times over.

Beyonder was also a supreme being according to Shooter.

Do you think Protege can take on THOTI?

Not imo.

Originally posted by Utrigita

I realise all that perfectly well, what I fail to see is why Protege is unable to copy Pre retcon Beyonder and Pre retcon Molecule Man's power when nothing suggest that they have the same ability as Scathan to counter Proteges ability to copy their entire powerset when they display it.
Nothing suggest that they can't counter Protege's ability either.

So this is a pointless argument good friend, we'll just end up in a curcular discussion.

Beyonder was millions of times more powerful than the LT and Eternity combined.

LT overpowered Protege by tapping into Eternity's power.

Simple.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Yes, but here is PreR MM, more powerful than LT. Who says Protege wouldn't be able to copy him immediately. I think he could and then he would move to battle PreR Beyonder.
Wouldn't make much of a difference.

MM lasted what, two panels against the Beyonder.

MM himself stated that Beyonder transacts on levels un-imaginable to him:

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/735/mmyy0.th.jpg

This is after his battle with Beyonder, (two panels)
MM became so weak, he needed the Silver Surfer's help to repair the planet Earth.
This is the same guy who was also more powerful than all of Marvel.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Nothing suggest that they can't counter Protege's ability either.

So this is a pointless argument good friend, we'll just end up in a curcular discussion.

Beyonder was millions of times more powerful than the LT and Eternity combined.

LT overpowered Protege by tapping into Eternity's power.

Simple.

And nothing suggest the opposite

Agree to disagree it is then.

Originally posted by Utrigita

And nothing suggest the opposite
Question:

Do you think Protege can defeat Thanos/THOTI?

I have no idea haven't given it a awefull lot of thought actually.

In theory there should be no limit to his ability to copy and reduplicate his victims full power, however we saw Scathan as a Special case. but I don't think he can neither in theory nore reality, From what I saw Protege was unable to copy the powerlevels of objects and artifacts so if you for instance throw Protege against the Infinity Gauntlet wielder the gauntlet wouldn't be copied ore something like that.

Furthermore Thanos was only capable of binding with the Heart of the Universe because (that's the way I understand it anyway) he previously had been in control of other powerful artifacts, Beyonders power for instance Doom was capable of containing (yes he holded the power of Galactus but still the power that Thanos has holded by far surpasses Galactus)

Hope that doesn't became to blurry

I feel lonely and left out because my post was ignored.

Sorry but I doesn't have anything to say to that post

Originally posted by Utrigita

I have no idea haven't given it a awefull lot of thought actually.

In theory there should be no limit to his ability to copy and reduplicate his victims full power, however we saw Scathan as a Special case. but I don't think he can neither in theory nore reality
According to arc, Protege would've never reached the level of a supreme being.

This is why LT was able to finish pwning him with just the Amulet.
Originally posted by Utrigita

From what I saw Protege was unable to copy the powerlevels of objects and artifacts so if you for instance throw Protege against the Infinity Gauntlet wielder the gauntlet wouldn't be copied ore something like that.
I don't recall that limitation.
Originally posted by Utrigita

Furthermore Thanos was only capable of binding with the Heart of the Universe because (that's the way I understand it anyway) he previously had been in control of other powerful artifacts, Beyonders power for instance Doom was capable of containing (yes he holded the power of Galactus but still the power that Thanos has holded by far surpasses Galactus)
Actually, at that time, Galactus' ship was perhaps the greteast energy source in reality,
and still,
that futuristic non-existent Doom didn't have all of Beyonder's power anyway,
besides that, that Doom was losing control shortly after acquiring the power,
and ultimately lost all control and got pwnd.

Thanos never lost control.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx

I feel lonely and left out because my post was ignored.
Because it's correct, and needs nothing added to it.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx

Protege has to see Beyonder's power to copy it. If B wants it to be so,
he won't see shit, he will only be destroyed.
Meh, Beyonder takes away his ability to copy powers.

Game over.

Beyonder could do anything, he was a supreme being on a ridiculous level,
he was exaggerated, hence the de-powering retcon.

Originally posted by Mr Master
According to arc, Protege would've never reached the level of a supreme being.

This is why LT was able to finish pwning him with just the Amulet.

No comic being can reach the level of the true supreme being imho.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I don't recall that limitation.

I just doesn't recall Protege copying the Energy Muzzle ore the Amulet that LT used.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually, at that time, Galactus' ship was perhaps the gretaest energy source in reality,
and still,
that futuristic non-existent Doom didn't have all of Beyonder's power anyway,
besides that, that Doom was losing control shortly after acquiring the power,
and ultimately lost all control and got pwnd.

Thanos never lost control.

Yep just like Protege never lost control after taking quiet a bit of power too, I however doesn't see Protege (mostly because it's a artifact) copying the heart in any sharp ore form Beyonder isn't a artifact Beyonder is a being just like LT and co, LT and co that Protege copied.

Furthermore I personally see quiet a gap in power between having the heart of the Universe and being Pre Retcon Beyonder but that is a personal observation.

Originally posted by Utrigita

No comic being can reach the level of the true supreme being imho.
There have been several supreme beings in Marvel: (TOAA is inconsequential)

Infinity Being ... Sise-Neg ... THOTI ...

There's 3 right there.

One could argue that the Alien Entity is the supreme being,
since he literally merged with the engines of creation, which is what creates everything.
Originally posted by Utrigita

I just doesn't recall Protege copying the Energy Muzzle ore the Amulet that LT used.
He didn't see the muzzle coming,
and apparently wasn't able to sense Scathan about to use it.

The Amulet was used after he got pwnd by Scathan.

Again, LT only needed to boost his power slightly to stomp Protege.
Originally posted by Utrigita

Yep just like Protege never lost control after taking quiet a bit of power too
The LT/Eternity/Hawkgod/Mephisto/GOTG combined are literally nothing to THOTI.

Please, let's not compare these good friend.

What Thanos contained was more than Protege could ever dream of.
Originally posted by Utrigita

I however doesn't see Protege (mostly because it's a artifact) copying the heart in any sharp ore form Beyonder isn't a artifact Beyonder is a being just like LT and co, LT and co that Protege copied.
THOTI is not an artifact, it's a formless source of energy that was contained in a chamber.

Beyonder takes away Protege's ability to copy powers.

Or, Beyonder implodes the omniverse on top of Protege,
he'll have to copy himself getting imploded, he'll end up defeating himself eternally.

Over.

Originally posted by Mr Master
There have been several supreme beings in Marvel: (TOAA is inconsequential)

Infinity Being ... Sise-Neg ... THOTI ...

There's 3 right there.

One could argue that the Alien Entity is the supreme being,
since he literally merged with the engines of creation, which is what creates everything.

Yes all of them is near supreme but none of them becomes Toaa in any sharp ore form from my point of view, to do that they would have to step out into this world and began drawing the comics lets not forget that it was Toaa that draw/decided that the Alien Entity should engineer the omniverse.

Originally posted by Mr Master
He didn't see the muzzle coming,
and apparently wasn't able to sense Scathan about to use it.

The Amulet was used after he got pwnd by Scathan.

Again, LT only needed to boost his power slightly to stomp Protege.

I realise that and at the same time finds it strange that a omniscient being doesn't know what is going to happen, but I repeat he couldn't copy either items. And LT amped his power with the power of the amulet which source did he draw from?

Originally posted by Mr Master
The LT/Eternity/Hawkgod/Mephisto/GOTG combined are literally nothing to THOTI.

Please, let's not compare these good friend.

What Thanos contained was more than Protege could ever dream of.

I realise that, but fact remains line them up then Doom a regular man was capable of handling (to some degree) Beyonders powers, Protege is far from a ordinary man, he is a being that in the comic showed absoluty no upper limit to what level of power he was capable of copying.

Originally posted by Mr Master
THOTI is not an artifact, it's a formless source of energy that was contained in a chamber.

Then he cannot.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Beyonder takes away Protege's ability to copy powers.

Thus demonstrating his powers...

Originally posted by Mr Master
Or, Beyonder implodes the omniverse on top of Protege,
he'll have to copy himself getting imploded, he'll end up defeating himself eternally.

A being with Omnipresent is hard to kill, and again Protege copies his powers, unless I see something that direct shows that Beyonder possesses the ability to directly counter Proteges abilities to copy then this debate is rather pointless.

Originally posted by Utrigita

Yes all of them is near supreme but none of them becomes Toaa in any sharp ore form from my point of view, to do that they would have to step out into this world and began drawing the comics lets not forget that it was Toaa that draw/decided that the Alien Entity should engineer the omniverse.
Which is exactly why I clearly wrote (TOAA is inconsequential)

I was only referring to TOAA's drawings.
Originally posted by Utrigita

I realise that and at the same time finds
it strange that a omniscient being doesn't know what is going to happen,

but I repeat he couldn't copy either items.

And LT amped his power with the power of the amulet which source did he draw from?
Perhaps Scathan was slightly beyond the LT's perception,
which is probably why Protege didn't sense him.

There's no concrete proof he can't copy items/weapons/artifacts.

The Amulet's source of power is Eternity's infinity.
Originally posted by Utrigita

I realise that, but fact remains line them up then Doom a regular man was capable of handling (to some degree) Beyonders powers, Protege is far from a ordinary man, he is a being that in the comic showed absoluty no upper limit to what level of power he was capable of copying.
That Doom was no regular man either,
that Doom came from a future he didn't exist in.

Even normal 616 Doom isn't really normal,
the dude has stolen practically all the cosmic powers.
Originally posted by Utrigita

Then he cannot.
I don't think he can copy THOTI being wielded regardless.

I'm only entertaining this thought that Protege is in these leagues,
the league of supreme beings, which he's not imo, but let's continue,
so, if THOTI is wielded by Thanos, and he uses it,
under your theory, he can copy it's power.

Imo, any supreme being crushes Protege with a thought.

Infinity Being, Sise-Neg, THOTI, classic Beyonder all stomp Protege effortlessly imo.
Originally posted by Utrigita

Thus demonstrating his powers...
Thus it's irrelevant cause he won't be able to copy powers anymore.
Originally posted by Utrigita

A being with Omnipresent is hard to kill, and again Protege copies his powers, unless I see something that direct shows that Beyonder possesses the ability to directly counter Proteges abilities to copy then this debate is rather pointless.
The fact that it was stated by Hawkgod and LT
that Protege would never reach supreme being status.

The fact that LT pwnd Protege with just the Amulet.

The Amulet at best, gives LT access to Eternity's power.

Beyonder was millions of times more powerful than LT and Eternity combined.

I mean, come on.

team for win if they have the backing of toaa...

Originally posted by lannfear

team for win if they have the backing of toaa...
Well obviously, everything, including this battle, is manipulated by TOAA. swank

What issues does Scathan appear in? I keep hearing about him, but have never seen him.

Originally posted by Lord S

What issues does Scathan appear in?

I keep hearing about him, but have never seen him.
I broke Scathan and Protege down lovely imo in this thread:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=492799&pagenumber=4

It's from that page forward, (about 3-4 pages in all) I was debating certain details,
all scans to back the on panel interpretations and issue #s are there.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I broke Scathan and Protege down lovely imo in this thread:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=492799&pagenumber=4

It's from that page forward, (about 3-4 pages in all) I was debating certain details,
all scans to back the on panel interpretations and issue #s are there. Many thanks my good man.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Beyonder = the Marvel prime Multiverse (including LT) millions of times over.

Beyonder was also a supreme being according to Shooter.

Do you think Protege can take on THOTI?

Not imo.

THOTI is the only thing I don't see Protege having any chance copying it (even after Thanos absorbed it and used it as it's own power). And he wouldn't be able to copy it, because of being TOAA power within MU. Protege doesn't stand a chance.

And if there wasn't for Scathan who contained him, Protege would easily deal with LT with Amulet.

Still, I favor PreR Beyonder in any case.

Bump.

I remember saying it took LT and Scathan to stop the godlike child. Team wins

Beyonder wins .

^ ... yea ... Wow, this thread brings back nice memories.

Mr M is catching hawks right about now. stoned

Team FTW

The only way Beyonder wins is if it's done via thought, or rendering Protege's sight ineffective then executing the necessary power like Scathan and LT did.

Protege's powers stack and compound. MM can attack (having his powers copied in the process) which will force Beyonder to respond and therefore have his powers copied as well. Protege was able to challenge Post Ret Beyonder after observing only one attack and actually made him retreat.

Yay

Team wins.

Beyonder wins.

Be real. Protege never copied anyone even a thousandth as powerful as PR Beyonder.

Beyonder thinks that Protege is can't copy him, and thus he can't.

Cows don't have wings because he doesn't want them to.

T2

Team (still) wins.

Beyonder wins, all day, every day.
Originally posted by NemeBro

Beyonder wins.

Be real. Protege never copied anyone even a thousandth as powerful as PR Beyonder.
Actually, literally, not even a millionth as powerful as Beyonder.

Remember, Beyonder was MillionS of times more powerful than the LT, plus all of the infinite Multiverse combined.
Originally posted by NemeBro

Beyonder thinks that Protege can't copy him, and thus he can't.

Pretty much. It was also stated in the arc, that Protege would Never reach the status of supreme being.

Beyonder = Supreme being

Don't get me wrong though, Protege is one of the most powerful cats ever,
but not in the league of the HOTI or classic Beyonder.

Here's my question(which is why I bumped the thread)...

In SW II #9 Owen was able to contend quite well with the Beyonder(relative to anyone else), and cancel out some of his energies. This enabled the cumulative attacks from the conglomeration of earth-heroes to have an albeit minimal effect on Beyonder(second scan, bottom left-hand panel), before Owen collapsed in exhaustion:
http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/17869492_28.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/17869498_29.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/17869504_30.jpg
Beyonder even says: "You had a chance! And it's unbelievable that you did!"


So even IF Protege couldn't dupe Owen or Beyonder's power, would it not be possible for he and Scathan's cumulative attacks to have a much greater effect on Beyonder if he were actively fighting Owen(given that their powers are infinitely superior to the earthlings')..? I'm assuming Protege starts out at his highest levels, of course.

^
Yes that's very plausible.
Now add Scathan + Owen + a pinnacle Protege witnessing the greatest power display ever shown in Marvel comics and they definitely have a shot.

To be fair for Owen, he said that he wasn't exerting himself in that fight. Although he did say that the Beyonder transacts on levels unimaginable to him, not to mention that Beyonder casually broke Owen's shield which he put around his house....(basically, Beyonder is well above Owen).

Still, i believe that the LT back in SW 2 was weaker than he was in '94 (When the Protege/Scathan instance happened). 1990, was the year in which LT was established to be omniversal. Curious, am i the only one here with this opinion?

That's why i believe that saying Beyonder was millions of times more powerful than LT (and directly comparing that to Protege's case), isn't accurate.

But regardless, i think Beyonder would win this battle.

Originally posted by operator616
Still, i believe that the LT back in SW 2 was weaker than he was in '94 (When the Protege/Scathan instance happened). 1990, was the year in which LT was established to be omniversal. Curious, am i the only one here with this opinion?

Nope, it's not just you.

Remember when Mephisto was building his little coalition to take out the Beyonder? It SEEMED like Eternity was the big gun in that little line up.

^ I don't think Eternity was > LT if that's what you're trying to suggest.

Because remember that, Secret Wars 2 #6, heavily implies that LT was the most powerful among the abstracts:

http://i.imgur.com/7cAabPR.jpg

Or previous stories such as that What If (LT was an established multiversal power back then, for sure).

So yeah, while i think LT was the most powerful of the abstracts, there's no doubt in my mind that he was weaker back then.

I have no doubt that LT was still intended to be the most powerful cosmic as of SW II, given this page:
http://imgur.com/NxHRpGl

However, I do not believe he was intended to operate anywhere the scope/scale in which he operates in more current continuity. I mean, up to that point LT's best feat was, what? The stunt he pulled on Korvac during What If v1 #32?:
http://imgur.com/onb7zYS
http://imgur.com/PkDmquQ

Disregarding LT referring to a supernova as his "ultimate punishment"(lulz), I suppose sealing off a universe from the rest of the multiverse is somewhat impressive--however, it is still a far cry from the type of power we'd see from him years later when he was a confirmed omniversal power... Adventures of the X-Men #12 is one example, of many:
http://imgur.com/WWdYqT4

http://imgur.com/mYQt6iD

Originally posted by operator616
^ I don't think Eternity was > LT if that's what you're trying to suggest.

Because remember that, Secret Wars 2 #6, heavily implies that LT was the most powerful among the abstracts:

http://i.imgur.com/7cAabPR.jpg

Or previous stories such as that What If (LT was an established multiversal power back then, for sure).

So yeah, while i think LT was the most powerful of the abstracts, there's no doubt in my mind that he was weaker back then.
No I'm talking about the time Mephisto was marshaling his army against the Beyonder, it was the scene when Eternity was manning Beyondersbane. Seem like Mephisto was suggesting Eternity was the big gun in his line up and hence why he was chosen to man Beyondersbane.

^ I know what you were referring to. And by referencing that example i thought you were suggesting that Eternity > LT.....no? (because i don't know how else to interpret your post, so clarify what you said).

Originally posted by Galan007

However, I do not believe he was intended to operate anywhere the scope/scale in which he operates in more current continuity. I mean, up to that point LT's best feat was, what? The stunt he pulled on Korvac during What If v1 #32?:
http://imgur.com/onb7zYS
http://imgur.com/PkDmquQ


Meh, that What If was still quite good when compared to LT's appearances in Strange Tales v1, where he struggled against Nebulos.

Originally posted by Galan007
however, it is still a far cry from the type of power we'd see from him years later when he was a confirmed omniversal power... Adventures of the X-Men #12 is one example, of many:
http://imgur.com/WWdYqT4

http://imgur.com/mYQt6iD

Yeah, Adventures of X-Men is a great feat for LT. Especially if we take into consideration the handbooks; LT's bio says that it's 2 megaverses, and the MC's says that the whole multiverse was destroyed in that issue, Marvunapp even says that it's possible that it was the omniverse.

But that aside....that's not applicable to the Protege affair (since it's after it). But in FF annual #23 (1990, before the Protege affair), was confirmed to exist in all multiverses simultaneously:

http://i.imgur.com/OxAO39B.jpg

So we know that in the Protege instance, he was omniversal.

T2 can win

@zop, yeah I'm not sure what to make of the BeyondersBane thing. According to this page, the multiversal powers(LT included) came to a consensus that Eternity(who encompassed the multiverse) was the best source of power for the machine:
http://imgur.com/8ZdOx2D

...But LT was still above him from an authority standpoint at the very least, if that makes sense.

Originally posted by operator616
^ I know what you were referring to. And by referencing that example i thought you were suggesting that Eternity > LT.....no? (because i don't know how else to interpret your post, so clarify what you said).

Meh, that What If was still quite good when compared to LT's appearances in Strange Tales v1, where he struggled against Nebulos.

Yeah, Adventures of X-Men is a great feat for LT. Especially if we take into consideration the handbooks; LT's bio says that it's 2 megaverses, and the MC's says that it destroyed the whole multiverse in that issue, Marvunapp even says that it's possible that it was the omniverse.

But that aside....that's not applicable to the Protege affair (since it's after it). But in FF annual #23 (1990, before the Protege affair), was confirmed to exist in all multiverses simultaneously:

http://i.imgur.com/OxAO39B.jpg

So we know that in the Protege instance, he was omniversal. Nebulos. ElOhEl.

True, it's not applicable. However, I do believe the LT we saw during GotG=the LT we saw during Adventures of the X-Men... Which is why I brought up that showing.

There are other showings that are applicable to the Protege affair, however. Warlock & the IW #1, for example, makes it abundantly clear that LT is the most powerful cosmic by a large margin... As does Infinity War.

^ Im not doubting whether LT was the most powerful among the abstracts by '94. That much was established not only during W&IW, but much earlier (even before IW). I was just saying that LT was established to be omniversal before the Protege affair as opposed to when he was during SW 2.

Lol, I know that's what you were saying... Because that's what you said.

I'm agreeing with you, broski.

Originally posted by Galan007
However, I do believe the LT we saw during GotG=the LT we saw during Adventures of the X-Men... Which is why I brought up that showing.

It was only a three year span between those stories so yeah.

Classic Beyonder in his full glory = Supreme being ... stoned

If that's unacceptable, then he = a character that can do anything.