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Elaine seems to stomp everyone else, but can she defeat PR Beyonder?

this may get ugly,good match up imo though

elaine ftw

Beyonder in a curbstomp.

Originally posted by Air Legend
Beyonder in a curbstomp.

very mutch doubt that

dope matchup. i wanna hear mr. master thoughts on this one.

Originally posted by Nihilist
very mutch doubt that
That's because you haven't read the Lucifer series.

whos elaine

What are her feats?

Is Elaine above the Presence?

she pretty much became god at the end of the lucifer series.

Originally posted by Galan007

she pretty much became god at the end of the lucifer series.
Without a doubt, she was equal to the Presence?

she became the new yahweh in the lucifer series. that's as clear as i can say it. a few people were asking who/what elaine is, so... meh, you know what? here's a wiki bio for anyone interested in her:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elaine_Belloc

i just have no will to delve into a "god vs. god" debate.

Isn't the Yahweh in that particular series not truly omnipotent though?

Originally posted by Galan007

she became the new yahweh in the lucifer series. that's as clear as i can say it. a few people were asking who/what elaine is, so... meh, you know what? here's a wiki bio for anyone interested in her:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elaine_Belloc
I just wanted to make sure you meant the Presence, (not like an IG God)
according to that she became Yahweh, that's the same thing right?
Originally posted by Galan007

i just have no will to delve into a "god vs. god" debate.
Me neither, you know how I feel about god vs god ... stalemate.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Isn't the Yahweh in that particular series not truly omnipotent though? he said there were forces "external" to himself. clearly referring to the writers.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I just wanted to make sure you meant the Presence, (not like an IG God)
according to that she became Yahweh, that's the same thing right? yeah, she became the new god/yahweh, in that series.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Me neither, you know how I feel about god vs god ... stalemate.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Without a doubt, she was equal to the Presence?
No. She became "God" of the Universe Yahweh/Presence designated her to have power over.

In the Void, Yahweh still has his powers and we see him chat with Lucifer. We also see other universes blossom and then come to an end. Basically, that Elaine became Yahweh for that universe. Thus, Beyonder stomps.

God wins.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
God wins. I'm not in this fight silly.

Yes you are. It clearly states PR Beyonder on the title.

You blasphemed yourself.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Yes you are. It clearly states PR Beyonder on the title.

You blasphemed yourself. ...Shit. haermm

People are so full of shit ... Elaine was simply given Michael's power. And Lucifer confirmed at the begining of the series that Yahweh was more powerful than the three angels (Gabriel, Michael and Lucifer). Just because Yahweh left Elaine with the universe doesn't mean that she was as powerful as him.

Lucifer defeated Michael before, so he wasn't unbeatable to begin with. Elaine was even less powerful than Michael before she merged. And how can two beatable entities form an unbeatable entity? It's like trying to get infinity by multiplying two finite numbers.

Besides Lucifer also had control over a universe, just like Elaine--that didn't seem to increase his power.

Beyonder makes Elaine pregnant and then leave her to rot.

Originally posted by Astner
Beyonder makes Elaine pregnant and then leave her to rot.

Stalemate.

PR Beyonder

Elaine

Wow. The Elaine supporters definitely back up their opinions with evidence.

Originally posted by Air Legend
Wow. The Elaine supporters definitely back up their opinions with evidence. lolz just because her story seem dramatic vs Disco Stu Beyonder. That what I think anyways
"Do the hot stuff" Beyonder wins by million to 1. close battle guys

Was it stated anywhere that PR Beyonder was GOD?
Is there any on-panel evidence that PR Beyonder was truly a God, who equals Yahweh??
Because Elaine was/is God, as witnessed by the end of the Lucifer series.

Beyonder 1 shots Elaine's weak universal power.

Lucifer was beyond the source and the Spectre. Micheal was lucy's equal or better. So I'd surmise that elaine would also be thier better. She'd be much more than multiversal.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer

Was it stated anywhere that PR Beyonder was GOD?
By the Writer/Creator of Beyonder & Secret Wars I-II:
(besides also being the Editor in-Chief of Marvel at the time)

......................................................................................


Marvel Age is an official Marvel title,
created to strictly discuss Marvel stories with it's Writers,
and other intricacies concerning Marvel comics.

......................................................................................


Jim Shooter himself describes Classic Beyonder to us:


Jim states:


1. Beyonder "is a Multi-verse."

2. Beyonder "was like God before there was Genesis."

3. Beyonder's discovery of our Universe ... (Marvel Multiverse)

.... was like when inventor Leeuwenhoek, looked through his micro-scope ...

.... and discovered little paramecia swimming in a drop of water ... "

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3339/jim1wp8.th.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7402/jim2mj1.th.jpg

"God before Genesis" ... Holy!
Originally posted by occultdestroyer

Is there any on-panel evidence that PR Beyonder was truly a God
Yes, but also consider this:

The Marvelverse "God" (Nemesis originally) created the infinite Multiverse,
that's an infinite amount of entire Universes,
in fact, it's even trans-infinite according to Dr Strange, making it beyond infinite.

Beyonder created a Reality, that if it were an Ocean,
it would make that infinite Multiverse seem like a drop of water.

You judge.

Even while limiting himself, Beyonder was effortlessly Multiversal, the Multiverse was still as nothing to him in comparison.

Any True God would be beyond a multiverse. Not a multiverse.

Any true God would be Omnipresent and Omnicient. No need to discover anything.Like the writers are really Omnipresent and Omnicient when it comes to the comics realities. they are everywhere and know everything.

Like does not mean equal to, the same, or exact. Like means similiar. As unto.

A pear's peel is like a green apple's. It's not the same.

Originally posted by fangirl101

Any True God would be beyond a multiverse. Not a multiverse.
dontgetit

Is this a trick statement?

Anyhow, Beyonder created a Reality
that was trillions upon trillions of times bigger than the infinite Multiverse.
Originally posted by fangirl101

Any true God would be Omnipresent and Omnicient.
No need to discover anything.
Like the writers are really Omnipresent and Omnicient when it comes to the comics realities. they are everywhere and know everything.
Who ever said Beyonder was the avatar of a writer representing God?

"Any true God?"

What are you talking about?

You do realize these drawings are created by limited finite minded human beings right?
Originally posted by fangirl101

Like does not mean equal to, the same, or exact. Like means similiar. As unto.

A pear's peel is like a green apple's. It's not the same.
Irrelevant spin on the facts.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Anyhow, Beyonder created a Reality
that was trillions upon trillions of times bigger than the infinite Multiverse.
an exact number like that was never stated. imo, you're taking the "drop of water" statement a bit too literally.

srug

Originally posted by Galan007

an exact number like that was never stated.
You're right, the number should be vastly larger.
Originally posted by Galan007

imo, you're taking the "drop of water" statement a bit too literally.
Do you mean as literally as this?

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/452729_mill.jpg

"The awesome power contained within
millions of times more than all the rest of the power in the Multiverse combined"

srugdoped

PR Beyonder sure does have some sexy abs. 131

Originally posted by Mr Master
You're right, the number should be vastly larger.

Do you mean as literally as this?

http://s2d2.turboimagehost.com/t/452729_mill.jpg

"The awesome power contained within
millions of times more than all the rest of the power in the Multiverse combined"

srugdoped then at least say something like, "beyonder's reality was millions of times larger than the 616 multiverse" or some shit. at least that way an arsehole like myself won't find the need to nitpick at your posts lol..

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
PR Beyonder sure does have some sexy abs. 131 and a nice pair of grape smugglers. 313

Originally posted by Galan007

then at least say something like,
"beyonder's reality was millions of times larger than the 616 multiverse" or some shit.
Well cause it's actually "septillions of times larger" ...

I take what Shooter said literally cause he not only mentioned it on panel,
(in every book of Secret Wars)
but he also clearly described it in his interview.

(that's why I posted the "millions of times" scan, to show that Shooter enjoyed numbers)

There are trillions upon trillions drops of water in the ocean,
roughly around 20 septillion in fact.

Not to use that monster number, I just say now, "trillions upon trillions" ...
Originally posted by Galan007

at least that way an arsehole like myself won't find the need to nitpick at your posts lol..
... nitpicker ... pfft

Originally posted by Mr Master
There are trillions upon trillions drops of water in the ocean,
roughly around 20 septillion in fact. now who in the hell came up with that number? to even take a swing at a claim like that, we would need to have a complete geographical layout of the entire ocean floor - taking into account every rise/fall/twist/turn it made . to my knowledge, we don't have anything close to this. *shrug*

..........................................................................................................

http://king.50g.com/programs&tables/tables/table.html

1,000,000,000,000,000 = One Quintillion

1,000,000,000,000,000,000 = One Sextillion

1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 = One Septillion

..........................................................................................................


The Wiki FACTS! section (un-editable)
tells us there are 908,400 drops in one Gallon.

..........................................................................................................


According to a Naval Meteorology & Oceanography Command
conversion worksheet for Junior and High School curriculums:

http://www.inventionfactory.com/lounge/scienceaction/gallons.htm

3.612 x 10^20 gallons of water in the Ocean

3,612,000,000,000,000,000,000

*328 million cubic miles* (Volume)

..........................................................................................................


According to an article at CNN/tech/science department,
they confirm the number of Gallons in the Ocean to be:

http://www.progressiveu.org/162506-whale-shark-death-at-georgia-aquarium

3.612 x 10^20

361.2 Quintillion gallons of water in the ocean

..........................................................................................................


This strengthens the reliability of their estimation of the Ocean's Volume:

..........................................................................................................


According to "Physical Geography Fundamentals department:

http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/8o.html

*329 million cubic miles* (Volume)


==============================================


3.612 x 10^20 x 908,400 = 3.2811408 x 10^24

32.8 Septillion drops of water in the Ocean.

(or 32,800,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000)


==============================================


According to the editors
of the Wall Street Journal Opinion Page,
based on an unscientific experiment to calculate the amount of drops in a Gallon,
they concluded it's roughly 22.2 Septillion drops of water in the ocean.

They calculated their number of drops in a Gallon,
with the factual estimated amount of Gallons in the Ocean,
based on the US Navy/Military,
which again, concludes the estimation to be at 3.612 x 10^20, g/w.
(or 361.2 Quintillion gallons of water)

http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110002460 (under Water Torture--II)

"According to the U.S. Navy,
there are actually 361.2 Quintillion gallons of ocean water."


==============================================


Editor's of the Wall Street Journal arrived at ... 22.2 Septillion.

Mr Master arrived at 32.8 Septillion.

To be fair considering the benefit of the doubt, I'll say roughly 25 Septillion.

okay, i thought someone had actually claimed such a number as 100% fact. i just didn't see how you could feasibly place a stagnant number on something which constantly varies, like the ocean . cool beans.

...Mr Master, you really have nothing better to do, do you?

Originally posted by Galan007

okay, i thought someone had actually claimed such an erroneous number as 100% fact. i just didn't see how you could feasibly place a factual/stagnant number on something which constantly varies, like the ocean. cool beans.
.. I never placed a factual/stagnant number on the drops, as you know friend.

I clearly stated, "roughly" ...

You're right though, of course there can be no absolute number,
but these nerds (myself included) have figured out at-least the rough estimate.

The rough estimate is factual, that much I know.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx

...Mr Master, you really have nothing better to do, do you?
I'm rich, single, and I'm a comic book lovin toys r us kid.

Oh, and in a minute, I'll be getting lifted. stoned

Just say Septillion. People don't have to take your word for it, they can learn for themselves.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I'm rich, single, and I'm a comic book lovin toys r us kid.

Oh, and in a minute, I'll be getting lifted. stoned If you are rich, why are you spending money on comics instead of girls dressed as comic book chicks? 131



That's not a bad idea. mmm

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx

If you are rich,
why are you spending money on comics instead of girls dressed as comic book chicks?
comic book chicks > real girls

They don't talk back, and after I buy them, they never ask for money,
in fact, they go up in value, and I can sell them off and make a profit,
then buy a new one.

It's a beautiful thing.
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33

Just say Septillion.

People don't have to take your word for it, they can learn for themselves.
Got a point.

Yeah, but sex with real girls won't give you a papercut like sex with comic chicks will.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx

Yeah, but sex with real girls won't give you a papercut like sex with comic chicks will.
Actually being rich and all,
I've bought this very expensive machine,
projects your consciousness into a dream world,
where all reality is subject to your every whim,
it essentially allows you to play "God" within this dreamverse.

In the beginning, I noticed only the benefits.
If a monster came at me,
all I had to do was materialize a powerful gun with which to shoot it.
I soon dispensed with guns however,
when I realized it was just as easy (but more ego-satisfying)
to shoot energy blasts from my hands, as if I were a comic book hero.
As my confidence grew,
I tired of the energy blasts,
and began to grapple with fearsome beasts hand-to-hand, like Beowulf;
I could be as strong and impervious to harm as I wished to be,
and so always defeated my foes.
For the first time ever I was able to fly at great heights and speeds.
I reveled in my newfound power.

Manipulation of time and space

Once,
I had been engaged in some sort of mischief
which spurred the local constabulary to chase after us.
We managed to evade our pursuers,
and my friend dropped me off near a factory in town.
As he waited, parked, I walked some distance towards a building
(I can't recall the reason; more mischief, I suppose).
Just as I reached a point too far from my friend to return in time,
a police car rounded the bend a few hundred yards away, saw me, and floored it.
My friend sped helplessly away,
as we both realized there wasn't any hope of my making it back to him.
Just as the police reached me, I remembered my power.
I'd used it primarily as a weapon and tool of levitation up to that point.
But there was no good reason why I couldn't bend time and space as well, was there?
I sent my dreamverse into "rewind", as if it were a tape in a VCR,
and watched everything run backwards.
The cops disappeared back around the bend, my friend returned to the curb,
and I backtracked to his car. Then I hit the "play" button.

My friend was puzzled by my sudden hesitation to disembark this second time.
So I told him the cops were coming, and there they were, right on schedule.
Only this time, my friend and I sped away together,
and had a merry time as the police pursued us in vain.

The problem is:

Absolute power bores absolutely

The fun didn't last very long.
Though I've forgotten many details,
I do remember my final judgment on the matter
(I'm very careful to remember any lessons learned about an experience,
even if I decide to let the details themselves fade into obscurity.)

In the main, I learned that absolute power bores absolutely.
It may corrupt too, as the old saying goes,
but any corruption I experienced
didn't make nearly as big an impression on me as the boredom.

When you're master of all you survey,
you're also bereft of any challenge or hope of novelty.

When you win a battle you had no chance of losing, the victory is meaningless.

When nothing new can occur without your permission, you cannot be surprised.

Without fear there is no courage. Without need or want there is no progress or movement.

Without limitations, there is no life.

......................................................................................


Imagine a person whose taste buds have been irrevocably destroyed,
to the extent that they may no longer taste anything they eat or drink.
Every meal becomes a burden of mere exercise of the jaws and tongue,
that must be performed several times a day to stave off weakness from hunger.
Rather than looking forward to meals, the victim begins to loathe them.
They become a punishment rather than a treat.

If you want to know the feeling, buy a pack of gum,
chew all the sticks until every last bit of sweetness has been leached away,
then pack the remnants into a plastic bag and refrigerate them.
For the next week,
pull out the wad of gum and chew it for about twenty minutes three times a day,
to emulate eating,
and you'll get some idea of what a taste denied person might perceive during meals.

You'll also get some idea of what's missing from the life of a God.

Any motion is essentially wasted from an emotional standpoint,
as you may ultimately derive no pleasure or gain from it.

No gain, because you already have everything.

No pleasure, because there's no other possibility to put it into context.

In a reality that knows only "Yes", you quickly begin yearning desperately for a "No".

If you've never been ill,
the vigor and well being of health has much less impact on your psyche than it might otherwise.

If you've never experienced rejection,
acceptance and love will rank low in your personal value system,
as common, easily acquired qualities.
Pleasure may be devalued
to the point of nothingness in the absolute absence of pain or deprivation,
just as money may be devalued to the point of zero worth by inflation,
which is by definition a state whereby money may be attained too easily.

Pleasure which comes consistently at no cost or risk of pain
may quickly become inflated to the point where it becomes meaningless
or worthless to the possessor.

Oh, so I've heard.

GET A LIFE!!!!

...

... No, I want to relish being lifeless and crazy

Originally posted by Mr Master
The problem is:

Absolute power bores absolutely

The fun didn't last very long.
Though I've forgotten many details,
I do remember my final judgment on the matter
(I'm very careful to remember any lessons learned about an experience,
even if I decide to let the details themselves fade into obscurity.)

In the main, I learned that absolute power bores absolutely.
It may corrupt too, as the old saying goes,
but any corruption I experienced
didn't make nearly as big an impression on me as the boredom.

When you're master of all you survey,
you're also bereft of any challenge or hope of novelty.

When you win a battle you had no chance of losing, the victory is meaningless.

When nothing new can occur without your permission, you cannot be surprised.

Without fear there is no courage. Without need or want there is no progress or movement.

Without limitations, there is no life.

......................................................................................


Imagine a person whose taste buds have been irrevocably destroyed,
to the extent that they may no longer taste anything they eat or drink.
Every meal becomes a burden of mere exercise of the jaws and tongue,
that must be performed several times a day to stave off weakness from hunger.
Rather than looking forward to meals, the victim begins to loathe them.
They become a punishment rather than a treat.

If you want to know the feeling, buy a pack of gum,
chew all the sticks until every last bit of sweetness has been leached away,
then pack the remnants into a plastic bag and refrigerate them.
For the next week,
pull out the wad of gum and chew it for about twenty minutes three times a day,
to emulate eating,
and you'll get some idea of what a taste denied person might perceive during meals.

You'll also get some idea of what's missing from the life of a God.

Any motion is essentially wasted from an emotional standpoint,
as you may ultimately derive no pleasure or gain from it.

No gain, because you already have everything.

No pleasure, because there's no other possibility to put it into context.

In a reality that knows only "Yes", you quickly begin yearning desperately for a "No".

If you've never been ill,
the vigor and well being of health has much less impact on your psyche than it might otherwise.

If you've never experienced rejection,
acceptance and love will rank low in your personal value system,
as common, easily acquired qualities.
Pleasure may be devalued
to the point of nothingness in the absolute absence of pain or deprivation,
just as money may be devalued to the point of zero worth by inflation,
which is by definition a state whereby money may be attained too easily.

Pleasure which comes consistently at no cost or risk of pain
may quickly become inflated to the point where it becomes meaningless
or worthless to the possessor.

Oh, so I've heard.

Soooo.... Uuuuuummm..... Yeah......

Mr. M, that was pretty detailed.

Gave me an erection too.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Mr. M, that was pretty detailed. It's free bio of Mr. M life :O

Originally posted by vansonbee
It's free bio of Mr. M life :O Liar! Dark-Jaxx demands scans!

Uh oh, here come the pokemon cards.

Originally posted by Mr Master

1. Beyonder "is a Multi-verse."

2. Beyonder "was like God before there was Genesis."

3. Beyonder's discovery of our Universe ... (Marvel Multiverse)

.... was like when inventor Leeuwenhoek, looked through his micro-scope ...

.... and discovered little paramecia swimming in a drop of water

This only solidifies the fact that Beyonder was NOT God.

1. Multiverse? That's only one part of the Marvel megaverse.

2. Clearly states that Beyonder was LIKE God. It didn't state he WAS/IS God.

Elaine IS God

3. Why do you need to discover something you should already now, if you truly are an omniscient and omnipresent God??


Still, your evidence and arguments, though detailed, are bland.

Beyonder is God-LIKE, NOT God.
Elaine IS/WAS God.
A no-contest.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer

This only solidifies the fact that Beyonder was NOT God.
Right. He was what God is, but before even Genesis.

The "God" of the Marvelverse is one entity, Beyonder is another.

Beyonder was his own supreme being, located withIN his own Reality,
a Reality ridiculous times bigger than the infinite Marvelverse. ("God's" creation)
Originally posted by occultdestroyer

1. Multiverse? That's only one part of the Marvel megaverse.
A Megaverse is a collection of Multiverses.

Beyonder's Multiverse = quintillions of Multiverses.

Not to mention
that Beyonder was Millions of times more powerful than all of Marvel combined.
Originally posted by occultdestroyer

2. Clearly states that Beyonder was LIKE God. It didn't state he WAS/IS God.
I never said Beyonder was the Infinity Being (original "God" ... creator of Marvel)

Beyonder is Beyonder (God of his Actuality)
Originally posted by occultdestroyer

Elaine IS God
And?

Infinity Being/God in Marvel created a drop of water. (Marvel reality)

Beyonder/God created an Ocean. (Beyond Realm)

Infinity Being was the original God in Marvel, and that's a fact.
Originally posted by occultdestroyer

3. Why do you need to discover something you should already now,
if you truly are an omniscient and omnipresent God??
Should know what?

The Marvelverse was disconnected from the Beyond-Realm:

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6606/beyondspacetime2pq7.th.jpg


The Beyonder realm, the way Shooter explains it, is like another company.

In fact, if you wanna get technical with this "God" business.

Shooter himself (TOAA in Marvel at the time)
places himself as part of the Marvelverse,
and the Marvelverse was a drop of water to Beyonder.

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7402/jim2mj1.th.jpg

"We introduced the Beyonder
and established
that he was studying these beings - us - he had discovered"

So again, is you wanna get technical:

Beyonder >>> TOAA
Originally posted by occultdestroyer

Still, your evidence and arguments, though detailed, are bland.
They may be un-interesting to you,
but I haven't seen a single sentence typed by you
that says anything of consequence concerning Beyonder < Elaine.

Nothing at all.
Originally posted by occultdestroyer

Beyonder is God-LIKE, NOT God.
Nah. Beyonder has no relation to your God, my God, or Marvel/DC's God.

When Shooter says Beyonder was "like God before Genesis"
he means Beyonder embodies all/he's infinite/omnipotent, in his reality,
just like "God" is/was, in the Bible before Genesis.
Originally posted by occultdestroyer

Elaine IS/WAS God.
A no-contest.
Makes no difference.

They stalemate.

But if you wanna reach with spins on the facts,
then Beyonder stomps in the technical sense,
although, I'd rather keep it simple, stalemate.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Uh oh, here come the pokemon cards. http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9302/juggernautsf8.th.jpghttp://img208.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
This only solidifies the fact that Beyonder was NOT God.

1. Multiverse? That's only one part of the Marvel megaverse.

2. Clearly states that Beyonder was LIKE God. It didn't state he WAS/IS God.

Elaine IS God

3. Why do you need to discover something you should already now, if you truly are an omniscient and omnipresent God??


Still, your evidence and arguments, though detailed, are bland.

Beyonder is God-LIKE, NOT God.
Elaine IS/WAS God.
A no-contest.


Fail.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Fail.
becuz you say so? He failed at seeing right thru a sham? PR Beyonder was no God.

Originally posted by fangirl101
becuz you say so? He failed at seeing right thru a sham? PR Beyonder was no God.

The thread title clearly states PR as in Pre-Retcon Beyonder, there was no sham until POST retcon.

Mr. M already proved Pre-Beyonder was a God, you just choose to ignore it with DC colored glasses.

BTW, I find it cute that of all the posts in this thread you choose to respond to, it's mine. Mr. M just got done making Occult look bad and yet you chose to respond to my 1 word post.

Originally posted by fangirl101

becuz you say so?

He failed at seeing right thru a sham?

PR Beyonder was no God.
Hmm ... you may be right, I'm starting to think Beyonder was above God. shifty

So yea, that might translate to being something else.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Hmm ... you may be right, I'm starting to think Beyonder was above God.

So yea, that might translate to being something else.
above God. So unknowing and childlike and yet above a God. Meh.

What did Elaine do that is above the Beyonders MANY high end feats?

Nothing from what I have heard so far...

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
What did Elaine do that is above the Beyonders MANY high end feats?
She didn't get retconned.

Originally posted by fangirl101

above God. So unknowing and childlike and yet above a God. Meh.
Dude, it's not that he was childlike it's that everything was so beneath him,
it made him look silly, at times, dealing with the simple yet depth of the human character/spirit.

It's a gentle twist, and in a way, it's almost like a paradox,
he's so powerful, that this infinitesimal existence was difficult to grasp.

Instead of the classic I'm God I know it all therefore I'm boring.

You gotta understand, Shooter was taking this exaggeration of a character,
and trying to fit it in with Earth, he had to give the story substance that would last,
this is why it became the greatest selling series to date.

The conflicting sides of being a God, and trying to live on Earth.

Originally posted by fangirl101

She didn't get retconned.

Originally posted by fangirl101
She didn't get retconned. Nice dodge.

And a copout at that.

Originally posted by Mr Master
this is why it became the greatest selling series to date. I thought that was Death of Superman? mmm

Originally posted by fangirl101
She didn't get retconned.

Oh goodness was that weak.

You do realize the Beyonder was retconned because he was TOO powerful right?

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
What did Elaine do that is above the Beyonders MANY high end feats?
She became GOD and embodied the Luciferverse as its GOD by the end of the Lucifer series.

Just read all the Lucifer issues.
It's an interesting read really, and I promise it won't disappoint.

I accept that she became God. What are her feats?

Originally posted by occultdestroyer

She became GOD and embodied the Luciferverse as its GOD
by the end of the Lucifer series.
Beyonder was always God of his beyond infinite Multiverse,
from his conception, to his end.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer

Just read all the Lucifer issues.
It's an interesting read really, and I promise it won't disappoint.
Just read all the Secret Wars issues, including tie-ins.
It's also a great read, I also promise, best selling Marvel series ever.

edit

Originally posted by Mr Master
Dude, the Presence is an illustrated image drawn by human hands,
that ain't no Christian God, LOL! ... where his son is the devil, closer to him that Jesus.

Get that out of here dogs, this is comics.

The Presence is just the God of DC, which is this little fantasy world of pictures

Just little correction. The Presence is God of DC, while Christian God is not Christian, but is God of all and father of us all, the true The One Above All.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Just little correction. The Presence is God of DC,
while Christian God is not Christian,

but is God of all and father of us all, the true The One Above All.
How are you correcting my post if you're saying exactly what I said?
Originally posted by Mr Master

Presence is an illustrated image drawn by human hands,
that ain't no Christian God
Originally posted by Mr Master

The Presence is just the God of DC

=== btw. If it's God of all and father of all,
then it's the Christian God, like the Muslim, like the Jewish God and so on,
since well, "it's the God of all" ... it represents all.

Originally posted by Mr Master
How are you correcting my post if you're saying exactly what I said?

I missed one word, which changed the concept. Cool then.

Originally posted by Mr Master
=== btw. If it's God of all and father of all,
then it's the Christian God, like the Muslim, like the Jewish God and so on,
since well, "it's the God of all" ... it represents all.

Exactly.

Edit: Oh .. it's the retconned, thus non-existent Beyonder powerlevel, nevermind then

Dude, the Presence is an illustrated image drawn by human hands,
that ain't no Christian God, LOL! ... where his son is the devil, closer to him that Jesus.

Get that out of here dogs, this is comics.

The Presence is just the God of DC, which is this little fantasy world of pictures
with added visual text to imagine what they would be saying,
and everything they say,
comes from the mind of a finite minded human being labeled a Writer.
I understand this ...but why then does Greg Rucka writer of Final Crisis Revolution series, say this?

the sort of unspoken rule in the DCU
is that the Judeo-Christian God sits above all others.
And then below that you can have your New Gods
and your Greek gods and whoever else you want ...

That's a complete lie.

Only Stan Lee was technically above Shooter.
from jims mouth him self..... Where did you see yourself in the food chain while you were at Marvel as editor-in-chief?


JS: I think you could argue that I was either somewhere in the top five of officers.

cheers

heheh forgot to use quote boxes

Originally posted by Mr Master
It's also a great read hmm, great compared to what exactly? i would hope not to classics like: miracleman, watchmen, v for vendetta, the original secret wars, IG saga, animal man (v1), swamp thing, etc. - or even more recent series' like: sinestro corps wars, kingdom come, A/S superman, blue beetle, etc.

i mean secret wars II is an okay read.... for an 80's series. meh, differing tastes i guess.

Originally posted by lannfear

I understand this ...
but why then does Greg Rucka writer of Final Crisis Revolution series,
say this?

the sort of unspoken rule in the DCU
is that the Judeo-Christian God sits above all others.
And then below that you can have your New Gods
and your Greek gods and whoever else you want ...
First, what does that have to do with Marvel?

Nothing.

Second, what does that have to do with the "real" Judeo-Christian God?

Nothing.

They even got the story twisted, Lucifer is not God's son, or favorite interest,
neither is Michael.

That's just me barking on a technical level,
seriously, these are comics,
and simply put, in the DC world, aside from the "creators"
the Presence/GEB is the Supreme Being of DC.

In Marvel it's another, separate unrelated Supreme Being.

But in the mid 80's, Shooter went nuts and created the Beyonder,
a character so exaggerated that he had to be retconned. (de-powered)
Shooter simply made him too powerful.

That's unheard of, Marvel staff complaints coupled with DeFalco's stamp of approval,
Beyonder was de-powered.

De-Falco was the following Editor-in-Chief after Shooter.

Like I said, that's the Top dog position,
only that position had the power to retcon Shooter's creation,
and yet, it's the Writer that gets to make up the story.

Which is why I told ya, TOAA = (Writers/Artists) of Marvel.

Shooter = Editor-in-Chief & Writer.
Originally posted by lannfear

JS: I think you could argue that I was either somewhere in the top five of officers.

cheers
Produce the link to this quote.

Originally posted by Galan007

hmm, great compared to what exactly? i would hope not to classics like: miracleman, watchmen, v for vendetta, the original secret wars, IG saga, animal man (v1), swamp thing, etc. - or even more recent series' like: sinestro corps wars, kingdom come, A/S superman, blue beetle, etc.

i mean secret wars II is an okay read.... for an 80's series. meh, differing tastes i guess.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Just read all the Secret Wars issues, including tie-ins.
It's also a great read, I also promise, best selling Marvel series ever.
the original secret wars

SSII ... was not the best selling Marvel series ever.

Let's be thorough brother G.

JS: I think you could argue that I was either somewhere in the top five of officers.


The president of the company, obviously, number one.


There was a fellow named Joe Calamari who was executive vice-president. He came in the middle there. He wasn't there at first, came in because Cadence was going through changes and he was cleaning house at other companies to sell them. When they didn't have a job for him doing that anymore, they stuck him at Marvel.


You could make an argument that the financial officer was ahead of me in the food chain. He used to complain that I got paid more than he did.


First year or so I was there Stan was entitled the publisher, but he never really had any authority. And he really didn't do anything. He was a creative guru. That was his real job. If he was sitting right here beside me, and I said, "Stan doesn't have any business skills." He'd say, "Yep, that's right, I don't" He was not a business man and he certainly was not a publisher. ...e was still the guiding light. What he did mostly was try to sell things to Hollywood. That was his real job. He was there for a little while... would help me with questions all the time. Then he went off to California to sell things to the West Coast.


For a time, I was the publisher and the editor. I was doing all the business of it as well. Then they brought in this guy, Mike Hobson. I could not believe it, because I'd done really well. I'd turned this ship around.


So Galton took me out to lunch. He said, "He doesn't have anything to do with you. I brought him in because we're going to start a children's book division and I need to have a publisher for the children's book division. But I have no authority to hire a publisher because I don't have my children's book division approved by the board yet. So I'm hiding him in the comics. I'm hiring the guy because I want this guy. I call him the publisher of comics because I can do that and no one will bat an eye. But his main job is going to be the other books."


As it turned out, it was great. We got along terrifically. I didn't have the kind of business education he did and he taught me a lot. He did serve as the publisher of the comics as well in the sense that he was head businessman. I was happy to have to turn stuff over to him. I would say something like we need contracts for this and HE would have to go wrangle with the lawyers.


You could argue that those four people were ahead of me in the food chain, but I had a voice. I was a vice president and I sat in all the staff meetings. I spoke and I was heard. I had a lot of influence. I used it as well as I could and failed miserably sometimes.

cheers

Originally posted by lannfear
JS: I think you could argue that I was either somewhere in the top five of officers.


The president of the company, obviously, number one.


There was a fellow named Joe Calamari who was executive vice-president. He came in the middle there. He wasn't there at first, came in because Cadence was going through changes and he was cleaning house at other companies to sell them. When they didn't have a job for him doing that anymore, they stuck him at Marvel.


You could make an argument that the financial officer was ahead of me in the food chain. He used to complain that I got paid more than he did.


First year or so I was there Stan was entitled the publisher, but he never really had any authority. And he really didn't do anything. He was a creative guru. That was his real job. If he was sitting right here beside me, and I said, "Stan doesn't have any business skills." He'd say, "Yep, that's right, I don't" He was not a business man and he certainly was not a publisher. ...e was still the guiding light. What he did mostly was try to sell things to Hollywood. That was his real job. He was there for a little while... would help me with questions all the time. Then he went off to California to sell things to the West Coast.


For a time, I was the publisher and the editor. I was doing all the business of it as well. Then they brought in this guy, Mike Hobson. I could not believe it, because I'd done really well. I'd turned this ship around.


So Galton took me out to lunch. He said, "He doesn't have anything to do with you. I brought him in because we're going to start a children's book division and I need to have a publisher for the children's book division. But I have no authority to hire a publisher because I don't have my children's book division approved by the board yet. So I'm hiding him in the comics. I'm hiring the guy because I want this guy. I call him the publisher of comics because I can do that and no one will bat an eye. But his main job is going to be the other books."


As it turned out, it was great. We got along terrifically. I didn't have the kind of business education he did and he taught me a lot. He did serve as the publisher of the comics as well in the sense that he was head businessman. I was happy to have to turn stuff over to him. I would say something like we need contracts for this and HE would have to go wrangle with the lawyers.


You could argue that those four people were ahead of me in the food chain, but I had a voice. I was a vice president and I sat in all the staff meetings. I spoke and I was heard. I had a lot of influence. I used it as well as I could and failed miserably sometimes.

cheers
O_o So Pro Beyonder or a whore we aren't getting any scans to support her

Originally posted by lannfear
JS: I think you could argue that I was either somewhere in the top five of officers.
The president of the company, obviously, number one.
There was a fellow named Joe Calamari who was executive vice-president. He came in the middle there. He wasn't there at first, came in because Cadence was going through changes and he was cleaning house at other companies to sell them. When they didn't have a job for him doing that anymore, they stuck him at Marvel.
You could make an argument that the financial officer was ahead of me in the food chain. He used to complain that I got paid more than he did.
First year or so I was there Stan was entitled the publisher, but he never really had any authority. And he really didn't do anything. He was a creative guru. That was his real job. If he was sitting right here beside me, and I said, "Stan doesn't have any business skills." He'd say, "Yep, that's right, I don't" He was not a business man and he certainly was not a publisher. ...e was still the guiding light. What he did mostly was try to sell things to Hollywood. That was his real job. He was there for a little while... would help me with questions all the time. Then he went off to California to sell things to the West Coast.
For a time, I was the publisher and the editor. I was doing all the business of it as well. Then they brought in this guy, Mike Hobson. I could not believe it, because I'd done really well. I'd turned this ship around.
So Galton took me out to lunch. He said, "He doesn't have anything to do with you. I brought him in because we're going to start a children's book division and I need to have a publisher for the children's book division. But I have no authority to hire a publisher because I don't have my children's book division approved by the board yet. So I'm hiding him in the comics. I'm hiring the guy because I want this guy. I call him the publisher of comics because I can do that and no one will bat an eye. But his main job is going to be the other books."
As it turned out, it was great. We got along terrifically. I didn't have the kind of business education he did and he taught me a lot. He did serve as the publisher of the comics as well in the sense that he was head businessman. I was happy to have to turn stuff over to him. I would say something like we need contracts for this and HE would have to go wrangle with the lawyers.
You could argue that those four people were ahead of me in the food chain, but I had a voice. I was a vice president and I sat in all the staff meetings. I spoke and I was heard. I had a lot of influence. I used it as well as I could and failed miserably sometimes.
cheers
I have no idea what any of that says,
and since there's no link that tells us where any of that came from,
I don't care either.

Back on topic, dude, what are you trying to prove?

Do you seriously think you're going to convince anyone
that in newspapers, magazines, (as in comic books) and even yearbooks,
Editor-in-Chief isn't the one running the show?

The show as in, operations and policies concerning the product?

I mean, I don't see your point.

Jim Shooter didn't own Marvel

He was simply the top dog, concerning Marvel comics daily operations,
and when it came to making a decision at Marvel head quarters in New York,
in fact, like I told ya before, you must've missed it:

"publisher Stan Lee relocated to Los Angeles
to better oversee Marvel's animation, television and film projects,
leaving Shooter largely in charge of the creative decision making
at Marvel's New York City headquarters."

The 3 or 4 cooperate fat cats above him collect and write the checks,
they let the talent do the work, America baby.

Besides all this, TOAA is represented by the writers/artists of Marvel.
(Shooter was just beyond that cause he was the Writer and the E-in-C) ouch.

I have nothing to prove...was just pointing out that while Jim Shooter may have been the editor and chief...he wasn't the TOAA at marvel.......nothing more nothing less.....

cheers

Originally posted by Mr Master
First, what does that have to do with Marvel?

Nothing.

Second, what does that have to do with the "real" Judeo-Christian God?

Nothing.

Why do you have to relate all comic concepts with Marvel?
It's not like Marvel is the ONLY comic company.
Stop being a fanboy for once please.

The Presence IS the comic book depiction of the Abrahamic God. That is a fact.
TOAA is/are just avatar/s of the comic book writers.
\

Who the hell is Elaine?

Originally posted by Aster Phoenix
Who the hell is Elaine?

A woman from Astolat that killed herself because Lancelot didn't love her.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
A woman from Astolat that killed herself because Lancelot didn't love her.

And why can she do anything to Beyonder?

Dunno, unless there's a different version of her in comics. Probably from Excalibur or an obscure DC comic.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
A woman from Astolat that killed herself because Lancelot didn't love her.

Oh, my, goodness.

You get mad props for such a reference.

Originally posted by Mr Master
SSII ... was not the best selling Marvel series ever.

Let's be thorough brother G. considering that every feat you shown of beyonder in this thread was from SWII, i naturally assumed that SWII would be the comic you were referencing. however, i am quite glad it was not.

Yall r crazy, look, if TOAA = Writer/Artist then it's TOAA > PR Beyonder, PR Beyonder's mom, PR Beyonder's dad and his little dog skippy.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
A woman from Astolat that killed herself because Lancelot didn't love her.
Geez, try reading a DC Comic for once