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This fight takes place on earth, and is an all-out bloodbath.

Superman and Wonderwoman are both Current versions and are fighting out of character, but both fully utilizing any and all of their powers and abilities.

They fight in an inescapable 500 sq foot area and are fighting to kill the other.




Superman is fully sundipped.

Wonderwoman has her standard equipment + Gauntlet of Atlas, Sword, and is wearing her Amazon Battle Armor.




Who takes this?

Superman. 10/10.

Originally posted by snyper1982
Superman. 10/10.

Originally posted by snyper1982
Superman. 10/10. I don't know...

WW does have her lasso this thread seem unfair, let give WW some advantage in her battle too. Sun dip Superman vs Time of that Month period WW.

WW wins 0/10

Wonder Woman.

Guantlet of Atlas at ten times her strength and durability plus that sword. He won't over come that. And there are two gauntlets. Not one.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Wonder Woman.

Guantlet of Atlas at ten times her strength and durability plus that sword. He won't over come that. Don't forget WW period boost!

And Superman is fully sundipped, Supes wins 10/10. We all know your bias with WW so by default most of the time thats your pick anyways.

in fangirl's defense, nobody else really reps wonder woman so, if quan is allowed to go balls-to-the walls with thanos, technically fg can with ww.

anyway, what of the god wave? ww knows all about superman and she would know that it would take a shitload of effort to beat him when sun-dipped, and since this is "no-CIS"....... you WILL wee a god wave.

Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
And Superman is fully sundipped, Supes wins 10/10. We all know your bias with WW so by default most of the time thats your pick anyways.
It' snot a bias. I don't know a quantifiable measure for Superman's Sun dip. I do know that She gets Ten times her strength. And that sword. Ten time her strength is Skyfather. Hell Four times would be thanos level. So please don't come at me with your sideways comments. Ask what made me come to my conclusion. We all know your bias towards me by default. Would make you say some thing stupid towards me.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Wonder Woman.

Guantlet of Atlas at ten times her strength and durability plus that sword. He won't over come that. And there are two gauntlets. Not one.

Vs a fully sundipped superman... Riiiggggghhhhhtttt. Superman is stronger and more durable than her without the sundip and her having the gauntlet of atlas anyways. The sundip just makes him that much more stronger and durable and faster. For someone who likes to harp on speed all the time, you seem to be wildly underestimating Superman's here.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
in fangirl's defense, nobody else really reps wonder woman so, if quan is allowed to go balls-to-the walls with thanos, technically fg can with ww.

anyway, what of the god wave? ww knows all about superman and she would know that it would take a shitload of effort to beat him when sun-dipped, and since this is "no-CIS"....... you WILL wee a god wave.

If she ever has a chance to perform one. Superman is much, much faster than WW.

Originally posted by vansonbee
I don't know...

WW does have her lasso this thread seem unfair, let give WW some advantage in her battle too. Sun dip Superman vs Time of that Month period WW.

WW wins 0/10

Originally posted by psycho gundam
anyway, what of the god wave? ww knows all about superman and she would know that it would take a shitload of effort to beat him when sun-dipped, and since this is "no-CIS"....... you WILL wee a god wave.

Diana has full access to God wave here, (also gets any and all boosts/amps associated with PMS).

Originally posted by fangirl101
Wonder Woman.
And there are two gauntlets. Not one.

Correct. (Typo)

Superman destroys Wonder Woman.

Superman.

Superman. And pretty easy.

The question here is godwave gonna work on supes no ABC logic bullshit.

Originally posted by skygunner41
The question here is godwave gonna work on supes no ABC logic bullshit.

The real question is, will the godwave even come out? The answer is no.

the real question is how many more times stronger is superman with a sun dip. and how long does it last? Wondy's guantlets each make her ten times stronger. So she's gonna be twenty times stronger and more durable just with them alone. So techincally, superman won't even be that strong. And if he is, is power boost would run out while hers amps her stamina. She could keep on fighting.

Question: By how much does the sundip enhance Clark's abilities?

Originally posted by fangirl101
the real question is how many more times stronger is superman with a sun dip. and how long does it last? Wondy's guantlets each make her ten times stronger. So she's gonna be twenty times stronger and more durable just with them alone. So techincally, superman won't even be that strong. And if he is, is power boost would run out while hers amps her stamina. She could keep on fighting.

The thing is, the fight won't last long enough for her stamina to make the slightest difference.

Also feats proving that WW with gauntlets is even as strong as normal superman?

Originally posted by fangirl101
the real question is how many more times stronger is superman with a sun dip. and how long does it last? Wondy's guantlets each make her ten times stronger. their amp stacks?

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Question: By how much does the sundip enhance Clark's abilities?

Depends on how long he is in there for. He could get a small boost, or he could come out like Superman 1M.

If memory serve right did WW fought Imperiex probe with sword and her armor beside her lasso and not sure about the gauntlet though and got really beaten by probe very badly(not defeat though) indeed where as supes fought probe by himself without amped against the probe and do quite well then WW.

Originally posted by skygunner41
If memory serve right did WW fought Imperiex probe with sword and her armor beside her lasso and not sure about the gauntlet though and got really beaten by probe very badly(not defeat though) indeed where as supes fought probe by himself without amped against the probe and do quite well then WW.

That would be ABC logic, and that doesn't fly.

Didn't the godwave create Kryptonians in DC's creation history? According to DS the godwave is what Kryptonians and other super races (like the guardians) draw their power from. Kryptonians just have a catch, they need solar radiation to unlock the power in their cells, the more exposure they get, the more power they unlock which is why Supes power increases.

The solar radiation itself is not the source of their power merely what unlocks it.

Originally posted by snyper1982
The thing is, the fight won't last long enough for her stamina to make the slightest difference.

Also feats proving that WW with gauntlets is even as strong as normal superman?

I doubt you will find any feats. She only used the gauntlets once to fight the Doomsday clone. The gauntlets do augment the wearer's strength ten-fold. I don't think Clark is normally 10 times stronger than Diana.

Doesn't the armor also add extra protection from all forms of damage? That ups her durability as well which is why I don't think this ends quickly. Is she sporting her shield along with the rest of her armor?

Originally posted by snyper1982
Depends on how long he is in there for. He could get a small boost, or he could come out like Superman 1M.

That's what I thought. The "fully sundipped" part of the battle description is a bit vague then isn't it? He got a bit of a dip in WW219 and he couldn't put Diana down. But as you say, if he spent a week sunbathing, then I'm sure he would be much, much more powerful.

We'd need more info I think.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
I doubt you will find any feats. She only used the gauntlets once to fight the Doomsday clone. The gauntlets do augment the wearer's strength ten-fold. I don't think Clark is normally 10 times stronger than Diana.

Doesn't the armor also add extra protection from all forms of damage? That ups her durability as well which is why I don't think this ends quickly. Is she sporting her shield along with the rest of her armor?

1. True, Current Diana isn't far from Superman in terms of raw Strength, and he certainly isn't anywhere near twice as strong. She just isn't as durable by default.

2. True, it ups all hers defenses in all areas.

3. Yes, She does have her shield in addition to wearing the Amazonian armor.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
That's what I thought. The "fully sundipped" part of the battle description is a bit vague then isn't it? He got a bit of a dip in WW219 and he couldn't put Diana down. But as you say, if he spent a week sunbathing, then I'm sure he would be much, much more powerful.

We'd need more info I think.

Agreed, For purposes of clarification....I'd say Superman has a full 24 hour days dip, as he can certainly stay in there for extended amounts of time.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
That's what I thought. The "fully sundipped" part of the battle description is a bit vague then isn't it? He got a bit of a dip in WW219 and he couldn't put Diana down. But as you say, if he spent a week sunbathing, then I'm sure he would be much, much more powerful.

We'd need more info I think.



That not sudipped that is sunamped. there different between those situation
Sundipped :superman dived in the sun for some time and become like human torch except that he is infinitely powerful than ever before.
sunamped :superman bathed in sunlight or came close contact with sun.

As far as ww219 is concern that writer stated that fight never intended to be close to the sun and that is illustrator mistake and that not count as sunamped superman only enraged stupid superman vs WW.

Originally posted by skygunner41
That not sudipped that is sunamped. there different between those situation
Sundipped :superman dived in the sun for some time and become like human torch except that he is infinitely powerful than ever before.
sunamped :superman bathed in sunlight or came close contact with sun.

As far as ww219 is concern that writer stated that fight never intended to be close to the sun and that is illustrator mistake and that not count as sunamped superman only enraged stupid superman vs WW.
It was sun amped superman. writers take back shit all of the time to make superman fans happy.

Originally posted by fangirl101
It was sun amped superman. writers take back shit all of the time to make superman fans happy.


writer statement >>>>>>>>>>>>>your opinion.IT suck but is true.

Originally posted by skygunner41
writer statement >>>>>>>>>>>>>your opinion.IT suck but is true.
On Panel>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Writer Statement.
becuz if writer statements were true, then superman is far far far more powerful than Thor. Really. according to you know. writers.

Originally posted by fangirl101
On Panel>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Writer Statement.
becuz if writer statements were true, then superman is far far far more powerful than Thor. Really. according to you know. writers.

I kinda agree with that or else we will be having Sentry stalemating Galactus, when he lost to WWH.

Originally posted by fangirl101
It was sun amped superman. writers take back shit all of the time to make superman fans happy.

The whole Sunamped thing is dubious at best. It was never mentioned in comic for one. Second, at the speed that they flew out there and back..he wasn't out there long enough to get any type of amp.

Contrast it to the battle where he fought Cythonna where it was stated that he was sunamping and he was obviously fighting there with her for a while.

There was no amp in Sacrifice.

Originally posted by fangirl101
On Panel>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Writer Statement.
becuz if writer statements were true, then superman is far far far more powerful than Thor. Really. according to you know. writers.

Those writers that wrote the story not me and Avlon is right there no mention of sunamped in sacrifice arc and darksied vs superman in SM/batman comic is another time I think supes is sunamped.

IF we count by on panel and feat BTW Supes >> WW.

Wonder Woman, 7/10.

all out...superman easy

Originally posted by Starscream M
their amp stacks? Each gauntlet amps her strength 10 times. She only wore won to destroy the doomsday creature.

Originally posted by skygunner41
Those writers that wrote the story not me and Avlon is right there no mention of sunamped in sacrifice arc and darksied vs superman in SM/batman comic is another time I think supes is sunamped.

IF we count by on panel and feat BTW Supes >> WW.

Thats true, even though the comics might consider her approaching his power....on panel feats dont really support this. Now in this fight, her trinkets do add a lot to the battle and she will give him a good fight as a result. Supes 7/10

Just a question really does her trinkets can cut supes on sundipped mode.?

Her sword? Most definitely.

Originally posted by skygunner41
That not sudipped that is sunamped. there different between those situation
Sundipped :superman dived in the sun for some time and become like human torch except that he is infinitely powerful than ever before.
sunamped :superman bathed in sunlight or came close contact with sun.

As far as ww219 is concern that writer stated that fight never intended to be close to the sun and that is illustrator mistake and that not count as sunamped superman only enraged stupid superman vs WW.

Gotcha

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
I doubt you will find any feats. She only used the gauntlets once to fight the Doomsday clone. The gauntlets do augment the wearer's strength ten-fold. I don't think Clark is normally 10 times stronger than Diana.

Doesn't the armor also add extra protection from all forms of damage? That ups her durability as well which is why I don't think this ends quickly. Is she sporting her shield along with the rest of her armor?

Well if she has no feats with them then we can't assume she is stronger than him. I believe a normal supes is well over 10 times stronger than WW based on feats. So a sundipped one would be even more so.

She has nothing to augment her speed either, and Superman is much faster than her. Superman is superior in every category. She has nothing at all on him.

Superman.

Originally posted by snyper1982
Well if she has no feats with them then we can't assume she is stronger than him. I believe a normal supes is well over 10 times stronger than WW based on feats. So a sundipped one would be even more so.

She has nothing to augment her speed either, and Superman is much faster than her. Superman is superior in every category. She has nothing at all on him.

That's true, Supes has moved moons and been stated to destroy dwarf planets with casual strikes while holding back.

Originally posted by fangirl101
On Panel>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Writer Statement.
becuz if writer statements were true, then superman is far far far more powerful than Thor. Really. according to you know. writers.

On panel feats suggest superman is many multiples of WW in strength. So even with the gauntlets, superman is still stronger. Now we are talking about a sun dipped, blood lusted superman... She stands no chance whatsoever. I don't think she would have much of a chance against regular superman, but I would be willing to give her 1 or 2, if he wasn't sun amped and blood lusted.

Originally posted by snyper1982
Well if she has no feats with them then we can't assume she is stronger than him. I believe a normal supes is well over 10 times stronger than WW based on feats. So a sundipped one would be even more so.

She has nothing to augment her speed either, and Superman is much faster than her. Superman is superior in every category. She has nothing at all on him.
That just sounds dumb as **** to me. Superman at normal level well over ten times her strength? He should be able to kill her with one strike. Are you kidding me? LMAO. If Two people lift something and are equal distance apart, and it's obvious that both are using all of thier might to lift it, and one is Ten times stronger than the other, then, wouldn't the one who is weaker have to let go?

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/9238/jlaspectresoulwarwwliftspectre.jpg
Simple leverage dictates that he couldn't even be 10% Stronger. Or else this is IMPOSSIBLE.

Originally posted by fangirl101
That just sounds dumb as **** to me. Superman at normal level well over ten times her strength? He should be able to kill her with one strike. Are you kidding me? LMAO.

Uhhh no. You are the one talking about on panel feats all the time, and well Superman's strength feats absolutely dwarf WW by comparison. Superman COULD kill her with one strike... He holds back.

Originally posted by snyper1982
Uhhh no. You are the one talking about on panel feats all the time, and well Superman's strength feats absolutely dwarf WW by comparison. Superman COULD kill her with one strike... He holds back. I guess he's holding back in this picture that clearly shows him struggling with all of his might. holding back at holding something up? LMAO. He holds back in fights.

Originally posted by fangirl101
That just sounds dumb as **** to me. Superman at normal level well over ten times her strength? He should be able to kill her with one strike. Are you kidding me? LMAO. If Two people lift something and are equal distance apart, and it's obvious that both are using all of thier might to lift it, and one is Ten times stronger than the other, then, wouldn't the one who is weaker have to let go?

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/9238/jlaspectresoulwarwwliftspectre.jpg
Simple leverage dictates that he couldn't even be 10% Stronger. Or else this is IMPOSSIBLE.

That is a retarded conclusion to come to. As long as both can lift it, it doesn't matter if one is stronger than the other, it is just easier for the stronger one...

Originally posted by snyper1982
That is a retarded conclusion to come to. As long as both can lift it, it doesn't matter if one is stronger than the other, it is just easier for the stronger one...
No. The spectre says his weight was nearly too much for THEM. Superman is struggling as is Diana. If he were ten times stronger, Then he would be lifting with ease as she struggles. her side would have fallen First. You are pwned.

Also, why is it that all of WW strength feats you show, are her aiding superman in something? I would also not consider that a very high end showing for Superman....

1 scan vs dozens which favor supes being her superior in strength by multiples.

Originally posted by snyper1982
Also, why is it that all of WW strength feats you show, are her aiding superman in something? I would also not consider that a very high end showing for Superman....
IF one i sto believe the description of his weight from the spectre, then it is.

Originally posted by Allankles
Didn't the godwave create Kryptonians in DC's creation history? According to DS the godwave is what Kryptonians and other super races (like the guardians) draw their power from. Kryptonians just have a catch, they need solar radiation to unlock the power in their cells, the more exposure they get, the more power they unlock which is why Supes power increases.

The solar radiation itself is not the source of their power merely what unlocks it.

A question about this statement (that maybe Avlon or Fangirl can answer?): Does this mean that Ares w/ the Godwave would be above Superman-Prime in power?

Originally posted by fangirl101
No. The spectre says his weight was nearly too much for THEM. Superman is struggling as is Diana. If he were ten times stronger, Then he would be lifting with ease as she struggles. her side would have fallen First. You are pwned.

Yeah... I am pwned. lulz. Supermans feats dwarf WW's, period. You are using low end superman feats where WW is helping to try and make superman look weaker than he is and act as a crutch to WW's strength. How about you compare WW feats to Superman feats straight up? Because WW has no strength feats comparable to Superman's, that's why.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
1 scan vs dozens which favor supes being her superior in strength by multiples.
Superman has more feats. But her superior in multples sound retarded. In the very least. If he's so much stronger than her, then how come Amazo who was stronger than clark and diana didn't just break everybone in her body? If he was so much stronger than her, then why is he the one who got punked by konvict and she's the one who aided him in his fight. If he was so many times stronger, then why is it that her fight with a white martian was better than his? He had to cheat while she str8 up beat the crap out of a couple of them. If he was multiple time stronger than her, why would he need her assistance in hitting the general? Sounds like a bunch of fanboy bullshit if you ask me.

Originally posted by snyper1982
Yeah... I am pwned. lulz. Supermans feats dwarf WW's, period. You are using low end superman feats where WW is helping to try and make superman look weaker than he is and act as a crutch to WW's strength. How about you compare WW feats to Superman feats straight up? Because WW has no strength feats comparable to Superman's, that's why.

Superman got pwned by herculese. Wonder Woman beat herculese str8 up.

Originally posted by fangirl101
IF one i sto believe the description of his weight from the spectre, then it is.

I thought we don't listen to what the writers are saying? LULZ. Make up your mind.

Originally posted by fangirl101
I guess he's holding back in this picture that clearly shows him struggling with all of his might. holding back at holding something up? LMAO. He holds back in fights.

Yeah, which is why he doesn't kill her when they fight. He holds back...

Originally posted by snyper1982
I thought we don't listen to what the writers are saying? LULZ. Make up your mind.
ON PANEL. You brought up something a writer said in an interview. Get a clue.

On Panel>>>>>>>>>>>>>Interview.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
1 scan vs dozens which favor supes being her superior in strength by multiples.

Exactly.

Originally posted by snyper1982
Yeah, which is why he doesn't kill her when they fight. He holds back... Which is why she doesn't use her magic lasso as a whip or battering weapon and bludgeon his weak to magic ass to death.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Superman has more feats. But her superior in multples sound retarded. In the very least. If he's so much stronger than her, then how come Amazo who was stronger than clark and diana didn't just break everybone in her body? If he was so much stronger than her, then why is he the one who got punked by konvict and she's the one who aided him in his fight. If he was so many times stronger, then why is it that her fight with a white martian was better than his? He had to cheat while she str8 up beat the crap out of a couple of them. If he was multiple time stronger than her, why would he need her assistance in hitting the general? Sounds like a bunch of fanboy bullshit if you ask me.

Feats support the fact he is stronger. Your bias just won't allow you to accept that. It's ok though.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Superman got pwned by herculese. Wonder Woman beat herculese str8 up.

ABC logic FTW!!!

Originally posted by fangirl101
ON PANEL. You brought up something a writer said in an interview. Get a clue.

On Panel>>>>>>>>>>>>>Interview.

Oh, got ya, so you get to selectively decide, what parts of what a writer says that you want to believe.

Originally posted by snyper1982
Feats support the fact he is stronger. Your bias just won't allow you to accept that. It's ok though.
I never said he wasn't. he's stronger by about 5%. 10% at most. But saying he's multiple times stronger than her is RETARDED. Superman and Wonder Woman's feats support that they are both stronger than Hulk And Thor and Silver Surfer. Hell Superman's feats put him over Thanos in strength as well. Since you want to talk about feats. but by fights, it's clearly obvious that he's not multiple times stronger than anyone I've listed including Wonder Woman. now get lost.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Which is why she doesn't use her magic lasso as a whip or battering weapon and bludgeon his weak to magic ass to death.

She wouldn't be able to anyways... Superman is her superior, get over it.

Originally posted by snyper1982
ABC logic FTW!!!
Only when it suits you. She beat someone he got pwned by. In a str8 up contest of strength and durability.

Originally posted by snyper1982
She wouldn't be able to anyways... Superman is her superior, get over it.
You are on block. I'm over you. respond now all day and night. I'll just see a cute lil message with you on ingnore.

Originally posted by fangirl101
I never said he wasn't. he's stronger by about 5%. 10% at most. But saying he's multiple times stronger than her is RETARDED. Superman and Wonder Woman's feats support that they are both stronger than Hulk And Thor and Silver Surfer. Hell Superman's feats put him over Thanos in strength as well. Since you want to talk about feats. but by fights, it's clearly obvious that he's not multiple times stronger than anyone I've listed including Wonder Woman. now get lost.

Oh so his strength disappears in a fight? Nice.

The idea that base Superman is 10 times stronger than base WW is utterly obscene.

And for the record, she's fought an enraged Superman who was not holding back, and held her own. Furthermore, she's stated that Zoom's punches her more than Superman's. I guess Zoom is, what, 11 times stronger than Diana now?

Hes above her in multiples, on panel feats support this. If nvr wants to make the argument that she is comparable to him then so be it, the feats speaks for themselves.

Originally posted by fangirl101
ON PANEL. You brought up something a writer said in an interview. Get a clue.

On Panel>>>>>>>>>>>>>Interview.


You know correcting comic mistake is really hard to do because of the work involved you have to draw,color,write exact meaning and publish and at the same time (your wish) recalled back the defunct comic edition and hope no backfire ensure. It not like VG you can make patch to correct error and applied patch for your game to ensure your game is meant to played like it should be... so what choice those writer has ...addressing error and mistake in interview or something and hopefully some reader and fan and feel intelligent enough to address those mistake and hopefully understand the problem and new situation that those writer originally intended to do to the said comic.

Originally posted by Enyalus
The idea that base Superman is 10 times stronger than base WW is utterly obscene.

And for the record, she's fought an enraged Superman who was not holding back, and held her own. Furthermore, she's stated that Zoom's punches her more than Superman's. I guess Zoom is, what, 11 times stronger than Diana now?

You want to know what is obscene? Basing strength off of fights alone, THAT is obscene to me.

Clark is stronger than Diana. But by 10 times? If he were even twice as strong as her, that would be an insurmountable advantage.

Also, aren't they supposed to be in the same strength class? I know that he is at the top of that class, but if he were indeed 10 times stronger than her, I seriously doubt she would even be in the bottom of that class.

Diana and Captain Marvel are fairly evenly matched in terms of strength, and I doubt anyone considers Supes to be 10 times stronger than him.

Originally posted by snyper1982
You want to know what is obscene? Basing strength off of fights alone, THAT is obscene to me.

Does Diana even attempt to move planets and the like? Not that I can recall.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Clark is stronger than Diana. But by 10 times? If he were even twice as strong as her, that would be an insurmountable advantage.

Also, aren't they supposed to be in the same strength class? I know that he is at the top of that class, but if he were indeed 10 times stronger than her, I seriously doubt she would even be in the bottom of that class.

Diana and Captain Marvel are fairly evenly matched in terms of strength, and I doubt anyone considers Supes to be 10 times stronger than him.

Feats support Superman being multiples stronger than WW. I am sorry if you can't accept that. Once people hit class 100 the strength differences can sway wildly.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Does Diana even attempt to move planets and the like? Not that I can recall.

How can I help that? I am simply going by feats... If she has comparable feats, post them. Otherwise superman has Diana dwarfed in strength feats.

Originally posted by Enyalus
The idea that base Superman is 10 times stronger than base WW is utterly obscene.

And for the record, she's fought an enraged Superman who was not holding back, and held her own. Furthermore, she's stated that Zoom's punches her more than Superman's. I guess Zoom is, what, 11 times stronger than Diana now?

How would you know he going all out of WW in sacrifice ...and does she been hit by full force of supes not holding his punch before.?And why of why that he stop hitting WW and had a time to talk and pick up that damn rock ...what rock going to do doomsday ( WW) in his mind at same time...he fight with doomsday before and 1 of that time killed him briefly and and all the fight that been fought one thing is consistent supes don't stop hitting doomsday and let him had a space to counter him and I say he tried his best to pwned the beast before and WTF moment happen in sacrifice arc...he stop hitting doomsday and pick a freakin rock.Supes must be on crack at time.

LOL @ Supes being 10x stronger than Diana

Originally posted by Enyalus
The idea that base Superman is 10 times stronger than base WW is utterly obscene.

And for the record, she's fought an enraged Superman who was not holding back, and held her own. Furthermore, she's stated that Zoom's punches her more than Superman's. I guess Zoom is, what, 11 times stronger than Diana now?

Yet all there confrontations are a lesson in contradiction. Clark has traversed glaxies in hours, endured a galaxy destroying blast.physically moved the moon and a solar system sized object. He has as even effortlessly defeated opponents whom are WW's superior...yet its obscene to assume he is 10 times her power lol.

Honestly, has there even been a occasion where Supes has fought agaisnt WW in the same intelligent manner he has other foes. Has he ever used his h2h speedblitz agaisnt her with striking power that can wreck a small planet(mind you he was holding back so we dont even know what a full haymaker would do). Out of all the instances that they have fought, has he ever not been the victim of CIS.

By the same token some of you are ascribing to - Captain Marvel was noted to be Superman's equal physically. What strength feats does he have to his credit?

Originally posted by Enyalus
By the same token some of you are ascribing to - Captain Marvel was noted to be Superman's equal physically. What strength feats does he have to his credit?

I don't know anything about CM. Sorry. If he hasn't proven it yet, it could have been hyperbole...

Originally posted by Enyalus
By the same token some of you are ascribing to - Captain Marvel was noted to be Superman's equal physically. What strength feats does he have to his credit?

Well recently both Supes and Marvel picked up a book with infinite pages. Half of infinity is still infinity.

Originally posted by snyper1982
Feats support Superman being multiples stronger than WW. I am sorry if you can't accept that. Once people hit class 100 the strength differences can sway wildly.


This is what happens when you take feats to their extremes. It can lead to nonsensical results. We simply haven't seen Diana do these things. You cannot simply surmise from that that she is 1. incapable and 2. therefore multiple times weaker than Clark. Do you have any idea how weak she would have to be for him to actually be 10 times stronger than her? All of their encounters with each other and even the way Clark speaks about WW do not indicate such.

Originally posted by Avlon
Well recently both Supes and Marvel picked up a book with infinite pages. Half of infinity is still infinity.

Not really. Because by definition you can't half an infinity.

I win!!

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
This is what happens when you take feats to their extremes. It can lead to nonsensical results. We simply haven't seen Diana do these things. You cannot simply surmise from that that she is 1. incapable and 2. therefore multiple times weaker than Clark. Do you have any idea how weak she would have to be for him to actually be 10 times stronger than her? All of their encounters with each other and even the way Clark speaks about WW do not indicate such.

True. Against Konvikt for instance, Superman noted that he was punching Konvikt hard enough to destroy small planets. Yet Wonder Woman's punches seemed to be affecting him far more than Superman's. If we use that, her strength > planet.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
This is what happens when you take feats to their extremes. It can lead to nonsensical results. We simply haven't seen Diana do these things. You cannot simply surmise from that that she is 1. incapable and 2. therefore multiple times weaker than Clark. Do you have any idea how weak she would have to be for him to actually be 10 times stronger than her? All of their encounters with each other and even the way Clark speaks about WW do not indicate such.

Forum fights are dictated by feats, this is the same issue with people who debated SS combat speed. They assumed just because he hasnt revealed h2h speed that it doesnt mean he cant...so we'll just use it as viable material for forum debates. By on-panel feats...he is her superior in multiples.

Originally posted by Enyalus
The idea that base Superman is 10 times stronger than base WW is utterly obscene.

And for the record, she's fought an enraged Superman who was not holding back, and held her own. Furthermore, she's stated that Zoom's punches her more than Superman's. I guess Zoom is, what, 11 times stronger than Diana now? Superman said Guy Garder hits harder than Doomsday once.

Also, Superman's punch in Sacrifice made her black out .
After that when she woke up she went all defensive and tacticle. That held her decently for a short time until she figured out she had to kill Max, but she is clearly physically overwhelmed by Superman. The whole context of the story was that killing Max Lord was her only option of slowing down Superman, because Earth would be lost if she didn't, not her, not anyone was going to stop him. And she would be his first victim.

10x? I dunno.

But Superman might be the most physically daunting character in comics, or certainly among the very elite, and in his right mind he would also fight much smarter.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Forum fights are dictated by feats, this is the same issue with people who debated SS combat speed. They assumed just because he hasnt revealed h2h speed that it doesnt mean he cant...so we'll just use it as viable material for forum debates. By on-panel feats...he is her superior in multiples.

He has on panel nanosecond reaction feats, Galen. Look at the respect thread at the very least.

Originally posted by Enyalus
True. Against Konvikt for instance, Superman noted that he was punching Konvikt hard enough to destroy small planets. Yet Wonder Woman's punches seemed to be affecting him far more than Superman's. If we use that, her strength > planet.

So we will just ignore on-panel feats then, just because there battles contradict his powerset in comics...doesnt mean its acceptable in a forum fight.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
So we will just ignore on-panel feats then, just because there battles contradict his powerset in comics...doesnt mean its acceptable in a forum fight.

It doesn't contradict anything if there are no feats to contradict. Diana doesn't move the shit that Supes does. Doesn't mean she can't. And there's your evidence that her punches are at least on Superman's level. And they wouldn't be if Supes was 10 times her strength.

There's your evidence. The end.

Originally posted by Enyalus
He has on panel nanosecond reaction feats, Galen. Look at the respect thread at the very least.

I have, and but then again so does DS,Thanos and a host of other top tiers. Are we just to assum Thanos can move at superspeed now in h2h because he has nanosecond reaction?

Originally posted by Enyalus
It doesn't contradict anything if there are no feats to contradict. Diana doesn't move the shit that Supes does. Doesn't mean she can't. And there's your evidence that her punches are at least on Superman's level. And they wouldn't be if Supes was 10 times her strength.

There's your evidence. The end.



lol, so basically just because they dont show it doesnt mean its not possible. Hey then the more i think about it, wolverine has never been shown to fly FTL but i guess that means he isnt capable of it

So then is Superman Ten times stronger than Supergirl? becuz Wonder Woman is Clearly Superior To supergirl. So then He must be 20 times Stronger than Supergirl huh? How does someone who's ten times weaker than you put up any kind of fight? Hell, You only have to be 15 percent stronger than someone in order to completely pwn them.

Superman pretty much murders her. His supporters have made more convincing arguments IMO.

Originally posted by fangirl101
So then is Superman Ten times stronger than Supergirl? becuz Wonder Woman is Clearly Superior To supergirl. So then He must be 20 times Stronger than Supergirl huh? How does someone who's ten times weaker than you put up any kind of fight? Hell, You only have to be 15 percent stronger than someone in order to completely pwn them. did you just pull that 15% number outta your behind or do you have some basis for such a claim?

Originally posted by Juntai
Superman said Guy Garder hits harder than Doomsday once.

Also, Superman's punch in Sacrifice made her black out .
After that when she woke up she went all defensive and tacticle. That held her decently for a short time until she figured out she had to kill Max, but she is clearly physically overwhelmed by Superman. The whole context of the story was that killing Max Lord was her only option of slowing down Superman, because Earth would be lost if she didn't, not her, not anyone was going to stop him. And she would be his first victim.

10x? I dunno.

But Superman might be the most physically daunting character in comics, or certainly among the very elite, and in his right mind he would also fight much smarter.

Yes, it was her only option because she didn't want to kill him. Tactical? She's smarter than him, so it's not a surprise that she would outwit him, especially considering that SHE HAD NO DESIRE TO FIGHT HIM.

10x is ridiculous. I'm sorry.

Originally posted by fangirl101
So then is Superman Ten times stronger than Supergirl? becuz Wonder Woman is Clearly Superior To supergirl. So then He must be 20 times Stronger than Supergirl huh? How does someone who's ten times weaker than you put up any kind of fight? Hell, You only have to be 15 percent stronger than someone in order to completely pwn them.

Like I said before, has there even been a occasion where supes has foguth her in intelligent matter at full capcity?

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Yes, it was her only option because she didn't want to kill him. Tactical? She's smarter than him, so it's not a surprise that she would outwit him, especially considering that SHE HAD NO DESIRE TO FIGHT HIM.

10x is ridiculous. I'm sorry.

LMAO, she couldnt kill him...thats a big difference.

Originally posted by Starscream M
did you just pull that 15% number outta your behind or do you have some basis for such a claim?
On guy can Bench 100 Pounds. Another guy can bench 115 pounds. they push against each other. who's going to give out? Do you know what 15 pounds means? Alot.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
lol, so basically just because they dont show it doesnt mean its not possible. Hey then the more i think about it, wolverine has never been shown to fly FTL but i guess that means he isnt capable of it


That's not really a fair comparison. In one you are giving an ability to a character, where there is no indication whatsoever that Wolverine has that capability. There is nothing in his powerset that remotely hints at the ability to fly. The other is an extrapolation from a similar on panel feat, with the reasoning being that the prior feat is very similar to the point being argued.

Now, if you want to claim that the later argument doesn't fly in these forums, that is perfectly fine. But do so reasonably

Originally posted by fangirl101
On guy can Bench 100 Pounds. Another guy can bench 115 pounds. they push against each other. who's going to give out? Do you know what 15 pounds means? Alot.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
LMAO, she couldnt kill him...thats a big difference.

She could kill him. Magical weapons ftw. She'd honestly have an easier time trying to kill him than KO him imo.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
That's not really a fair comparison. In one you are giving an ability to a character, where there is no indication whatsoever that Wolverine has that capability. There is nothing in his powerset that remotely hints at the ability to fly. The other is an extrapolation from a similar on panel feat, with the reasoning being that the prior feat is very similar to the point being argued.

Now, if you want to claim that the later argument doesn't fly in these forums, that is perfectly fine. But do so reasonably

So when you say extrapolate you really just mean guessing and assuming.

Does this look like he's 10 times her strength?

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/3161/Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg13.jpg

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/9770/Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg19.jpg

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/812/Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg20.jpg

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Yes, it was her only option because she didn't want to kill him. Tactical? She's smarter than him, so it's not a surprise that she would outwit him, especially considering that SHE HAD NO DESIRE TO FIGHT HIM.

10x is ridiculous. I'm sorry. In For Tomorrow in a skirmish, a fully prepared and ready-to-take-down-Superman Wonder Woman showed up, with her shield and sword and couldn't mount an effective attack on Superman, and he didn't even want to fight her, was just trying to save some people.

No, she's not smarter than he is. Not even close.

I never suggested he was 10x stronger, just that he is clearly her superior particularly at base levels.

She had to be tacticle to make up for his vast other advanges, and knew she would still be overwhelmed. She might not wanted to fight Clark in particular, not anyone should, however, she was the one fighting for the fate of Earth in that moment


.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
She could kill him. Magical weapons ftw. She'd honestly have an easier time trying to kill him than KO him imo.

Lasso didnt work, she slit his throat but wasnt that just to slow him down...selective memmory FTW.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Like I said before, has there even been a occasion where supes has foguth her in intelligent matter at full capcity?

Careful now. You wouldn't want to start speculating based on what we *haven't* seen on panel.

I don't think he was nearly as deranged as you claim in the Sacrifice fight. He was using all of his abilities on her, not just brawling. He was wisely avoiding the lasso and krypto dagger she pulled on him. Diana even commenting that it was like he knew what the lasso would do to him.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
This is what happens when you take feats to their extremes. It can lead to nonsensical results. We simply haven't seen Diana do these things. You cannot simply surmise from that that she is 1. incapable and 2. therefore multiple times weaker than Clark. Do you have any idea how weak she would have to be for him to actually be 10 times stronger than her? All of their encounters with each other and even the way Clark speaks about WW do not indicate such.

Being 10 times weaker than Kal is not a bad thing. He is one of the strongest characters of all time.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Lasso didnt work, she slit his throat but wasnt that just to slow him down...selective memmory FTW.

It certainly wasn't to kill him. You don't honestly think she meant to kill him, but missed? And I do remember that the lasso didn't work. I wasn't referring to it however. Try again

Originally posted by fangirl101
Does this look like he's 10 times her strength?

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/3161/Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg13.jpg

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/9770/Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg19.jpg

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/812/Superman_v2_211_2005_Team-DCP_pg20.jpg

Originally posted by The Great Galen
So when you say extrapolate you really just mean guessing and assuming.

Assumptions are often apart of arguments. And I like how you ignored the entire point of that post; i.e. your analogy was completely off base.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Forum fights are dictated by feats, this is the same issue with people who debated SS combat speed. They assumed just because he hasnt revealed h2h speed that it doesnt mean he cant...so we'll just use it as viable material for forum debates. By on-panel feats...he is her superior in multiples.

Nice. Because fangirl is one of the people who kept asking for on panel evidence that SS had hand speed like WW...

So...yeah I guess he was trying lol.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Careful now. You wouldn't want to start speculating based on what we *haven't* seen on panel.

I don't think he was nearly as deranged as you claim in the Sacrifice fight. He was using all of his abilities on her, not just brawling. He was wisely avoiding the lasso and krypto dagger she pulled on him. Diana even commenting that it was like he knew what the lasso would do to him.

Oh so he was using his superspeed then in combination with strikes,preasure points and holds?

Originally posted by fangirl101
Does this look like he's 10 times her strength?

You forgot the pages right before that, where she attacked him from behind, and he just catches her sword arm out of the air.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
It certainly wasn't to kill him. You don't honestly think she meant to kill him, but missed? And I do remember that the lasso didn't work. I wasn't referring to it however. Try again

LMAO, it wasnt within her abilties...re-read sacrifce plz.

Originally posted by Juntai
In For Tomorrow in a skirmish, a fully prepared and ready-to-take-down-Superman Wonder Woman showed up, with her shield and sword and couldn't mount an effective attack on Superman, and he didn't even want to fight her, was just trying to save some people.

No, she's not smarter than he is. Not even close.

I never suggested he was 10x stronger, just that he is clearly her superior particularly at base levels.

She had to be tacticle to make up for his vast other advanges, and knew she would still be overwhelmed. She might not wanted to fight Clark in particular, not anyone should, however, she was the one fighting for the fate of Earth in that moment


.

Unless you want to claim that Clark is wiser than Athena, then yes, she is.

The entire point of this discussion is whether or not he is in fact 10 times stronger than her. I hold that he isn't. He is stronger than her, but not by that much.

And the word is tactical. I'm sorry. That was driving me crazy

Originally posted by The Great Galen
LMAO, it wasnt within her abilties...re-read sacrifce plz.

You want to base your argument on a story where she wasn't trying to kill him?

Originally posted by Juntai
You forgot the pages right before that, where she attacked him from behind, and he just catches her sword arm out of the air.
And that has exactly what to do with what I was trying to convey. When thier strength meets. It's fairly obvious that he isn't ten times or even two times her strength. Unless you think supergirl is only a quarter as strong. Becuz Wondy has pwned her twice already.

Well This sure as hell doesn't look like he's ten times stronger to me.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=134543700&albumID=1798359&imageID=25324942

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=134543700&albumID=1798359&imageID=25324984

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Assumptions are often apart of arguments. And I like how you ignored the entire point of that post; i.e. your analogy was completely off base. [/QUOTE

Debating facts are apart of arguments as well, but hey if you wanna continue with the wild speculation thing go ahead. Supes FTW via power cosmic...oh dont u know he can do it now

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Unless you want to claim that Clark is wiser than Athena, then yes, she is.

The entire point of this discussion is whether or not he is in fact 10 times stronger than her. I hold that he isn't. He is stronger than her, but not by that much.

And the word is tactical. I'm sorry. That was driving me crazy

lol, no ur right she is MUCH MUCH smarter then him.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Oh so he was using his superspeed then in combination with strikes,preasure points and holds?

He was using his superior speed to avoid the lasso (as you so proudly pointed out) and to continue to stay on top of her. And I don't think she would have been too worried about his MA skills.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
You want to base your argument on a story where she wasn't trying to kill him?

You mean a story were she couldnt kill him, yeah sure why not.

Originally posted by Enyalus
It doesn't contradict anything if there are no feats to contradict. Diana doesn't move the shit that Supes does. Doesn't mean she can't. And there's your evidence that her punches are at least on Superman's level. And they wouldn't be if Supes was 10 times her strength.

There's your evidence. The end.



Not since it is a well known fact superman holds back when fighting... I doubt we will ever truly know just how hard superman hits.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
You mean a story were she couldnt kill him, yeah sure why not. What do you mean? Superman talks about how She ties amazo so fast that he didnt' even blink. So if she wanted to kill him, why not just tie him up and cut his head off with the tiara?

Originally posted by fangirl101
And that has exactly what to do with what I was trying to convey. When thier strength meets. It's fairly obvious that he isn't ten times or even two times her strength. Unless you think supergirl is only a quarter as strong. Becuz Wondy has pwned her twice already.

When there strength meets....that wasnt even a fight for crying out loud.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
When there strength meets....that wasnt even a fight for crying out loud.
Yeah. So she kicked him thru the mountain side for kicks. And he smashed her face into the ground for a laugh.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
He was using his superior speed to avoid the lasso (as you so proudly pointed out) and to continue to stay on top of her. And I don't think she would have been too worried about his MA skills.

So he used his super speed in combination with immense striking power the whole fight, oh and she should worry about his MA since she doesnt seem even use superspeed when she fights.

Originally posted by fangirl101
What do you mean? Superman talks about how She ties amazo so fast that he didnt' even blink. So if she wanted to kill him, why not just tie him up and cut his head off with the tiara?

The point was debunked so many threads ago...man its like a broken record.

Originally posted by fangirl101
So then is Superman Ten times stronger than Supergirl? becuz Wonder Woman is Clearly Superior To supergirl. So then He must be 20 times Stronger than Supergirl huh? How does someone who's ten times weaker than you put up any kind of fight? Hell, You only have to be 15 percent stronger than someone in order to completely pwn them.

That is retarded on so many levels... So if I can lift 200lbs and another guy can lift 230, he will pwn me in a fight huh? lulz.

Originally posted by Starscream M
did you just pull that 15% number outta your behind or do you have some basis for such a claim?

That is exactly where s/he pulled it from.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Yeah. So she kicked him thru the mountain side for kicks. And he smashed her face into the ground for a laugh.

lol, it wasnt a real fight Plus I get the feeling she was just looking for a excuse to get rammed by clark..yet again

Originally posted by snyper1982
That is exactly where s/he pulled it from.

Look, nvr is one of the hardest people to convince..he will maitain with this train of thought forever. Anyhow its pointless, he wins..end of story good bye thread.

Originally posted by snyper1982
That is retarded on so many levels... So if I can lift 200lbs and another guy can lift 230, he will pwn me in a fight huh? lulz.

Now keep going up in numbers and see how far the gap gets.

Superman lifts 100 billion tons. she lifts 85 billion. 15 billion tons would make a whole lot of difference in striking power.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Assumptions are often apart of arguments. And I like how you ignored the entire point of that post; i.e. your analogy was completely off base.


Why don't you try reading what I actually wrote lol Let me break this down a little easier for you.

1. I said there was absolutely nothing wrong with you discounting his previous argument based on the lack of actual evidence.

2. Your attempt at sarcasm in your response failed miserably. There is a clear difference between:
A) Wolverine has never been shown to fly, but let's assume that he can.
Versus
B) Superman and CM have been stated to be equal in strength, although CM lacks any of Supes strength feats. He is likely capable of similar feats.

Do you see the distinction?

Originally posted by The Great Galen
The point was debunked so many threads ago...man its like a broken record.

Debunked becuz superman fans didn't like it. debunked my eye. She's done it TWICE.

Originally posted by fangirl101
What do you mean? Superman talks about how She ties amazo so fast that he didnt' even blink. So if she wanted to kill him, why not just tie him up and cut his head off with the tiara?

She couldn't....

Originally posted by fangirl101
Now keep going up in numbers and see how far the gap gets.

Superman lifts 100 billion tons. she lifts 85 billion. 15 billion tons would make a whole lot of difference in striking power.

I thought you had me on ignore?

I would also like to know why people keep trying to equate a fight with how strong someone is. Superman holds back in fights and has never hit someone as hard as he possibly could. His actual strength feats put him multiples above wondy.. What is so hard to grasp about that?

Anyways, even if superman weren't 10 times stronger than wondy, she still looses this fight. Badly.

Originally posted by snyper1982
I would also like to know why people keep trying to equate a fight with how strong someone is. Superman holds back in fights and has never hit someone as hard as he possibly could. His actual strength feats put him multiples above wondy.. What is so hard to grasp about that? .
Because it isn't true. Lawl.

Originally posted by Val-E-Doosh
Because it isn't true. Lawl.

So you have some strength feats from WW putting her at less than multiples of superman?

Originally posted by Val-E-Doosh
Because it isn't true. Lawl.

Originally posted by snyper1982
So you have some strength feats from WW putting her at less than multiples of superman?
I have common sense which is more than I can say for a few people here.

Originally posted by Val-E-Doosh
I have common sense which is more than I can say for a few people here.

So that would be a no then. Thanks.