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fight takes place in NYC at night! a knock out wins it!

who wins?

anyone have any thoughts on this? i thought it would be quite a good fight

Blade 8-9/10

Blade.

Blade 9/10

blade

Blade and easily give Nightwing some prep or a power boost.

some people on KMC seem to think nightwing would win against cyclops so im surprised that it is so one sided

I think night wing could give blade a fight

Nightwing outranks Blade in agility
In speed Blade has a slight advantage
And in durability and strength Blade has a significant advantage.

Blade 8/10 cuz You can't kill that which does not live.

As I've brought up before, when looking at feats Blade really has nothing to his name. No significant strength feats, no significant speed feats and no significant skill/endurance/healing/durability feats. Blade winning is based purely on hypothetical, using the fact that he is a vampire to legitimize the idea that that he is stronger / faster then the typical street, ignoring that... well... he hasn't shown himself to be.

Blade is theoretically superior BUT that isn't enough to warrant a win here; so until he actually does something impressive, Nightwing wins.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
As I've brought up before, when looking at feats Blade really has nothing to his name. No significant strength feats, no significant speed feats and no significant skill/endurance/healing/durability feats. Blade winning is based purely on hypothetical, using the fact that he is a vampire to legitimize the idea that that he is stronger / faster then the typical street, ignoring that... well... he hasn't shown himself to be.

Blade is theoretically superior BUT that isn't enough to warrant a win here; so until he actually does something impressive, Nightwing wins.

What Nightwing's adventage on Blade?

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
What Nightwing's adventage on Blade?

Agility......thats about it.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
What Nightwing's adventage on Blade?

Everything

Blade is half vampire. Should he be superior to Nightwing? Certainly! Unfortunately that's not the question, the question is "IS he stronger / faster than Nightwing?" and right now the answer is no. All we have to go on is what Blade does in the comics. That's what we have to base our opinions on, not what he could potential do as an extension of being a vampire if he was give the correct writer. With that said, Nightwing is superior.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Blade is half vampire. Should he be superior to Nightwing? Certainly! Unfortunately that's not the question, the question is "IS he stronger / faster than Nightwing?" and right now the answer is no. All we have to go on is what Blade does in the comics. That's what we have to base our opinions on, not what he could potential do as an extension of being a vampire if he was give the correct writer. With that said, Nightwing is superior.

How is NW stronger and faster than Blade?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
How is NW stronger and faster than Blade?

He has superior feats of both strength and speed.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He has superior feats of both strength and speed.

Like what?

Blade shows he is superior everytime he is on panel! how many vamps could NW take? your logic is seriously flawed! there is no way Blade is losing to this...boy

So, I guess Peak Human > a Vampire.....

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Like what?

Like the plethora of bullet dodging feats he has? And Blade's only strength feat is lifting some demon (a large demon to be sure) above his head... which is ambiguous at best. Blade doesn't have the feats to back up what people freely attribute to him because of his heritage. Fact.

Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
So, I guess Peak Human > a Vampire.....

If you are going to back your opinion based purely on a title, I guess you can stop reading comics, pick up a Hand-book and post with the same level of accuracy.

Blade SHOULD be physically superior, but he hasn't shown that he is. So does the fact that Blade is vampire make him stronger by default dispite him lacking and feats that support this assumption?

If I tell you I'm superhuman, does that now make me stronger than you by default? Because I think you'd expect me to prove that I was first before you excepted it as a fact... but maybe thats just me..

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Like the plethora of bullet dodging feats he has?


Blade doesnt have bullet dodging feats?


Originally posted by srankmissingnin

And Blade's only strength feat is lifting some demon (a large demon to be sure) above his head... which is ambiguous at best. Blade doesn't have the feats to back up what people freely attribute to him because of his heritage. Fact.

So what strength feat does NW have thats better?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Blade doesnt have bullet dodging feats?




So what strength feat does NW have thats better?


Two or three none of them are that impressive.

I remember him lifting a fridge and tossing it into some dudes pretty causually, but I'd have to go throw my back issues to find more... Although I'm pretty sure the burden of proof is on you in this case.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Two or three none of them are that impressive.

Well ok... just because he doesnt have that many does that mean he can't do it? He is superhuman after al?

Whats wrong with these?

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Bladekickinss.jpg


http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Bladejumpin.jpg

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

I remember him lifting a fridge

Yeah and I think he used momentum for that, how is that more impressive than lifting that big demon?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well ok... just because he doesnt have that many does that mean he can't do it? He is superhuman after al?


Originally posted by srankmissingnin
If you are going to back your opinion based purely on a title, I guess you can stop reading comics, pick up a Hand-book and post with the same level of accuracy.

Blade SHOULD be physically superior, but he hasn't shown that he is. So does the fact that Blade is vampire make him stronger by default dispite him lacking and feats that support this assumption?

If I tell you I'm superhuman, does that now make me stronger than you by default? Because I think you'd expect me to prove that I was first before you excepted it as a fact... but maybe thats just me..

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah and I think he used momentum for that, how is that more impressive than lifting that big demon?

Maybe... I remember he was hanging off the back of a truck when he did... which would have momentum working against him and make the fridge much harder to left... but I'd have to check.

he just provided strength feats to show blades superiority...and lifting a demon and throwing a stake with enough force to knock a vampire off spiderman (who spiderma himself couldnt knock off)<throwing a fride?

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
he just provided strength feats to show blades superiority...and lifting a demon and throwing a stake with enough force to knock a vampire off spiderman (who spiderma himself couldnt knock off)<throwing a fride? Don't forget ripping off a Vampire's head with his bare hands. That would require some descent strength to do that.

LOL at people saying Nightwing is stronger and faster.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93/Jyppe/Bladethrows.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Bladestrength.jpg

Blade is much stronger than Nightwing.

Originally posted by Warrior18
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93/Jyppe/Bladethrows.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Bladestrength.jpg

Blade is much stronger than Nightwing. That first scan is a double strength feat. First he tosses that vampire b!tch with one hand up into the air and then easily snaps the statue's stone sword with one hand like a twig. Most humans would be hard pressed to snap a stone statue like that with both arms and alot of leverage.

He also threw her with the injured arm. Strength wise he is at least peak human from those scans. In fact the ripping head scan was very Midnighter-esque. lol Sod it I'm going to push the boat out and say enhanced to low superhuman strength. Speed and agility wise NW has him in my opinion. NW has tonnes of very impressive speed and agility feats.

Originally posted by Warrior18
Blade 9/10

Let me clarify that I don't think this is a clean sweep. Blade has to work for each one of these 9 wins, hard. NW will give him a good fight, but I think he will go down nearly every time.Blade might even mistake him for a vampire.

blade

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Maybe... I remember he was hanging off the back of a truck when he did... which would have momentum working against him and make the fridge much harder to left... but I'd have to check.


Not sure whats going on here but it looks like hes using rope.


http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/6808/year1996throwsafridgetoenemies.gif

Like I said he used momentum, he used acrobatics to lift it.

Originally posted by Warrior18
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93/Jyppe/Bladethrows.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Bladestrength.jpg

Blade is much stronger than Nightwing. I dont remember seeing the first one in the respect thread

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Not sure whats going on here but it looks like hes using rope.


http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/6808/year1996throwsafridgetoenemies.gif

Like I said he used momentum, he used acrobatics to lift it. That's more impressive than lifting a huge Demon or ripping somebodies head off?

Blade has Grayson beaten in every aspect except agility and intelligence give the kid prep. .

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
I dont remember seeing the first one in the respect thread

Its there. That is where I jacked it from.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Blade has Grayson beaten in every aspect except agility and intelligence give the kid prep. .

I think they have similar fighting abilities.

Originally posted by Warrior18
I think they have similar fighting abilities. that may be but when one can excute them faster and pack more power behind each attack its obvious who'd win

Originally posted by Warrior18
I think they have similar fighting abilities. I would agree but Blade has experience on his side and just about everything else.

Originally posted by iceman24567
I would agree but Blade has experience on his side and just about everything else.

Yeh. I see this as being similar to Nightwing's encounters with Deathstroke. Basically can't take him head on.

Originally posted by Warrior18
Yeh. I see this as being similar to Nightwing's encounters with Deathstroke. Basically can't take him head on. That right there is a pretty good comparison and if so Blade doesn't completely stomp.

Originally posted by iceman24567
I would agree but Blade has experience on his side and just about everything else. Blade has over 100 years of experience along with the practice time.

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/6205/b5oe1.jpg

Originally posted by iceman24567
That right there is a pretty good comparison and if so Blade doesn't completely stomp.

Add the fact that if they don't know anything about eachother Blade is a killer and could actually be trying to kill him. No holding back.

I forgot about Blade ripping that guys head off.

Any way breaking a chunk off a statue and the demon lifting aren't superhuman feats of strength. You were right he used momentum to toss the fridge BUT before that he was hanging off the edge of a moving truck supporting the weight of the fridge with out getting pulled off truck... and he didn't look he was even struggling, that is an incredible feat of strength, much more impressive than an ambiguous demon lifting feat. It might not be on the same level as the head ripping off feat but it is still comparable and I'm sure I could find some more feat if I looked for them.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I forgot about Blade ripping that guys head off.

Any way breaking a chunk off a statue and the demon lifting aren't superhuman feats of strength. You were right he used momentum to toss the fridge BUT before that he was hanging off the edge of a moving truck supporting the weight of the fridge with out getting pulled off truck... and he didn't look he was even struggling, that is an incredible feat of strength, much more impressive than an ambiguous demon lifting feat. It might not be on the same level as the head ripping off feat but it is still comparable and I'm sure I could find some more feat if I looked for them. we dont know how muc hthe fridge was, it couldnt have weighed more than him, he had no leverage so if it weighed more than him it shouldve just yanked him off I believe

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
we dont know how muc hthe fridge was, it couldnt have weighed more than him, he had no leverage so if it weighed more than him it shouldve just yanked him off I believe

Fridges weigh around 150-200+ lbs

He shouldn't have been able to do what he did, it is crazy feat of strength and would be near impossible for anyone with anything even resembling human strength.

I can see Nightwing taking a few wins. He's basically a Matt Murdock w/o radar but w/ gadgets.

Blade ftm.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin


He shouldn't have been able to do what he did, it is crazy feat of strength and would be near impossible for anyone with anything even resembling human strength. I work out 4 days a week and I am around a lot of strong guys and consider myself to be a strong guy. And I'd be willing to bet somebody could pull off the Nightwing fridge feat before grabbing a 150lb vampire and throwing her straight into the air with one arm that just happens to be injured. And on top of that snapping a stone structure with one hand like a twig.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
that is an incredible feat of strength, much more impressive than an ambiguous demon lifting feat. Why is it ambiguous? Because Nightwing cannot touch that? Blade lifted the demon over his head. If anything the Nightwing feat is ambigous.

The demon was pretty massive. I'd be willing to say he was close to 1 ton or even higher considering his size. And Blade picked him up after surviving a crash landing.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I work out 4 days a week and I am around a lot of strong guys and consider myself to be a strong guy. And I'd be willing to bet somebody could pull off the Nightwing fridge feat before grabbing a 150lb vampire and throwing her straight into the air with one arm that just happens to be injured. And on top of that snapping a stone structure with one hand like a twig.

You find a guy, get him to stand on the back of a flat bed truck holding onto the power-cord of a fridge while the truck is speeding down the street and I'll show you a guy who is about to be hospitalized.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
You find a guy, get him to stand on the back of a flat bed truck holding onto the power-cord of a fridge while the truck is speeding down the street and I'll show you a guy who is about to be hospitalized. is that the only instance of strength you have...it could be interpretted as PIS

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Not sure whats going on here but it looks like hes using rope.


http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/6808/year1996throwsafridgetoenemies.gif

Like I said he used momentum, he used acrobatics to lift it. Is it me or does it look like the truck hit a bump? Wouldn't that naturally elevate the fridge?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Why is it ambiguous? Because Nightwing cannot touch that? Blade lifted the demon over his head. If anything the Nightwing feat is ambiguous.

The demon was pretty massive. I'd be willing to say he was close to 1 ton or even higher considering his size. And Blade picked him up after surviving a crash landing.

A ton? lmao. If we assume he had the same body mass / density as a normal human we are looking at maybe 500-600lbs. As to why its an ambiguous feat? Because we don't don't know how much it weighed, which allows people to pull ridiculously high numbers out of their ass like a ton.

Nightwings feat isn't ambiguous at all. We know how much a fridge weighs, we know he didn't have any leverage, and we know that would make it that much harder to move. If a person tried to do what Nightwing did, they would have been pulled off the truck but he just planted his feat and pulled the fridge along with them with too much difficulty

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Is it me or does it look like the truck hit a bump? Wouldn't that naturally elevate the fridge?

Yeah it hits a bump, and that's what propels the fridge forward into the mass of thugs, but I'm talking about what is going on before that.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Yeah it hits a bump, and that's what propels the fridge forward into the mass of thugs, but I'm talking about what is going on before that. Well, I'm sorry but I just don't view it as that impressive.

And BTW the Demon was alot bigger than Blade. I have a scan to show how tall he was and he was massive. He weighed more than 600lbs.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
A ton? lmao. If we assume he had the same body mass / density as a normal human we are looking at maybe 500-600lbs. As to why its an ambiguous feat? Because we don't don't know how much it weighed, which allows people to pull ridiculously high numbers out of their ass like a ton.

Nightwings feat isn't ambiguous at all. We know how much a fridge weighs, we know he didn't have any leverage, and we know that would make it that much harder to move. If a person tried to do what Nightwing did, they would have been pulled off the truck but he just planted his feat and pulled the fridge along with them with too much difficulty he was leaning back meaning he probably as much if not a little bit less than the refrigerator (which wasnt that big)

How the hell can a fridge be heavier than this guy?

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Blade/Bladevsreaper3.jpg

Here Blade casually shoves a massive vampire and sends him for a ride
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93/Jyppe/BladeStrong.jpg

Originally posted by snoopdogg
How the hell can a fridge be heavier than this guy?

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Blade/Bladevsreaper3.jpg

Here Blade casually shoves a massive vampire and sends him for a ride
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93/Jyppe/BladeStrong.jpg

Its not heavier than the demon, not even close, a fridge only ways around 150-200lbs BUT its not the weight that makes it impressive, its the circumstances that do. It's like when Wolverine threw a guy from one end of a pool to the other hard enough to crack the wall; not a bad feat but a man doesn't weigh that much but what makes it impressive is that he did it while underwater and that makes the feat a 1000s times more impressive. Standing up on the back of a speeding flat bed truck would be hard enough, but to pull a fridge along with you by the extention cord when it would be impossible to get decent footing and with out any leverage while a bunch of dudes are attacking you would be impossible. Its the situation that makes it impressive, not the fridge.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Its not heavier than the demon, not even close, a fridge only ways around 150-200lbs BUT its not the weight that makes it impressive, its the circumstances that do. It's like when Wolverine threw a guy from one end of a pool to the other hard enough to crack the wall; not a bad feat but a man doesn't weigh that much but what makes it impressive is that he did it while underwater and that makes the feat a 1000s times more impressive. Standing up on the back of a speeding flat bed truck would be hard enough, but to pull a fridge along with you by the extention cord when it would be impossible to get decent footing and with out any leverage while a bunch of dudes are attacking you would be impossible. Its the situation that makes it impressive, not the fridge. even so he did little more than lock his arms and keep his feet planted, other than leaning back it required little effort on his part, the and seeing as we have no idea how fast the truck was going we can't quantify the feat,

the feat isnt that impressive i ncomarison to blades, and I dont see why its be brought up

Odds are Blade will be trying to kill him and will

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
even so he did little more than lock his arms and keep his feet planted, other than leaning back it required little effort on his part, the and seeing as we have no idea how fast the truck was going we can't quantify the feat,

the feat isnt that impressive i ncomarison to blades, and I dont see why its be brought up Yea, I can't believe it's being used as proof NW is stronger than Blade.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Yea, I can't believe it's being used as proof NW is stronger than Blade.

And you claim to work out four times a week

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
And you claim to work out four times a week I just got back from a good chest and tricep workout.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
And you claim to work out four times a week ...you act as if thats not believable, relax with the personal shots especially when you dont really know the person

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
...you act as if thats not believable, relax with the personal shots especially when you dont really know the person

If he works out as often as he says he does he should understand why the feat is impressive. He says he doesn't understand why the feat is impressive, which brings into questions his work out credentials. I'm not making a personal attack on him or anything lol.

I don't do any weight training (sometimes I'll do a few sets before I swim... but usually I just have time to swim), but I worked two summers as a mover and I can tell you what Nightwing did is an incredible feat of strength. Not as impressive as ripping a dudes head of with one arm, but its more impressive than lifting the demon.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
If he works out as often as he says he does he should understand why the feat is impressive. He says he doesn't understand why the feat is impressive, which brings into questions his work out credentials. I'm not making a personal attack on him or anything lol.

I don't do any weight training (sometimes I'll do a few sets before I swim... but usually I just have time to swim), but I worked two summers as a mover and I can tell you what Nightwing did is an incredible feat of strength. Not as impressive as ripping a dudes head of with one arm, but its more impressive than lifting the demon. everyone does sometype of exercise ok if he says he works out 4 times a week its not unbelieaable, its not like theres any reason to lie

regardlessa massive demon reathing and struggling with its best efforts = holding a refrigerator?

seeing as he didnt even lifted it, he just held the cord and locked his arms

Sure impresive feat the pulling the head from the demons shoulder, but have to say about that big dude not so sure that is a very big feat.
I mean he doesn't really look solide or is it just me?
Iff so who knows how heavy he is.

And about the fridge thing sure it's hard to keep keep a fridge on his place on the back of a moving car, but it's not only strenght that come's in to play he some how has to keep his balance, but still a good feat.

With that being said I do believe blade would beat NW, but would be a good fight thow.

Originally posted by DestinyGuy678
everyone does sometype of exercise ok if he says he works out 4 times a week its not unbelieaable, its not like theres any reason to lie

regardlessa massive demon reathing and struggling with its best efforts = holding a refrigerator?

seeing as he didnt even lifted it, he just held the cord and locked his arms
yea no one lies on KMC about them selfs.......I mean masterbruces is really a 6'2 peak-human and not a small little asain..........

About The Demon.

Demons are etheral/physical beings They can be big and light like the purple/brown demon in Quiver. or they can be extremely dense and solid like Etrigan they can be intangible like Mephisto or weightless if it suits them.

For that reason we cannot attribute a weight to the demon.

About the Vampire.
Vampires vary in durability. some vampires' flesh bruises and breaks easily like zombie flesh. Some vampires' have denser flesh like Dracula The vampire in preacher had superhuman strength but less than average human durability to blunt trauma.

I don't think its possible to apply conventional concepts of mass and measurement to the supernatural.

As a daywalker Blade has the best of both in his powerset. However because Blade does not drink blood his strength and physical stats are either equal to or slightly above peak human. With blood Blade is superhuman.

Blade 6.5/10

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Is it me or does it look like the truck hit a bump? Wouldn't that naturally elevate the fridge?

Actually you're right it did.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
but I'm talking about what is going on before that.

LOL pulling a fridge with a rope?

Originally posted by shiv
About The Demon.

Demons are etheral/physical beings They can be big and light like the purple/brown demon in Quiver. or they can be extremely dense and solid like Etrigan they can be intangible like Mephisto or weightless if it suits them.

For that reason we cannot attribute a weight to the demon.

About the Vampire.
Vampires vary in durability. some vampires' flesh bruises and breaks easily like zombie flesh. Some vampires' have denser flesh like Dracula The vampire in preacher had superhuman strength but less than average human durability to blunt trauma.

I don't think its possible to apply conventional concepts of mass and measurement to the supernatural.

As a daywalker Blade has the best of both in his powerset. However because Blade does not drink blood his strength and physical stats are either equal to or slightly above peak human. With blood Blade is superhuman.

Blade 6.5/10

Yeah yeah yeah, whatever.

Originally posted by Warrior18
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93/Jyppe/Bladethrows.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Bladestrength.jpg

Blade is much stronger than Nightwing.

Ease up there chaps. What's all this malarkey about demons and fridges? The above feats pretty much trump both in my opinion.

Goddamit Chaykin sux.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Goddamit Chaykin sux.

Yeh man I just trawled my way through Punisher WJ #24. My eyes hurt.

Originally posted by shiv




For that reason we cannot attribute a weight to the demon. The Reaper was heavy. You can see the artist drew trembling lines by Blade's arms indicating the demon was putting some stress on Blade's arms.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93/Jyppe/Liftingfeat.jpg


Originally posted by shiv

As a daywalker Blade has the best of both in his powerset. However because Blade does not drink blood his strength and physical stats are either equal to or slightly above peak human. With blood Blade is superhuman.

Where can this be proven? I realize Blade can become weak without blood but where does it say that he gains extra strength from blood?

Blade

Originally posted by Battlehammer
yea no one lies on KMC about them selfs.......I mean masterbruces is really a 6'2 peak-human and not a small little asain.......... even if they do does it matter?