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Because of me being an Obi-Wan lover, it is very annoying that all the times Obi-Wan has fought Dooku, he has gotten pwnd. Is it just coincidence that dooku pwns obi every time, or do you think he could put up a better fight?

Originally posted by skywalker833
Is it just coincidence that dooku pwns obi every time, or do you think he could put up a better fight?
Maybe it has do with Dooku being superior to Obiwan in every way especially when it comes to the force.

Yes, many people believe that... It's probably true too. What I am saying is that I think obi wan could put up a better fight. He is regarded by Yoda as one of the best in the order, he is a jedi master, has fought numerous sith/dark jedi, and is in the jedi council.

So is Dooku. An even greater Sith Lord. And still Anakin is stronger than Dooku. Anakin only lose from Obi because of terrain disadvantage.

Originally posted by Ultimate Vader
So is Dooku. An even greater Sith Lord. And still Anakin is stronger than Dooku. Anakin only lose from Obi because of terrain disadvantage.

You seem dead set on discussing Kenobi vs. Obi-Wan, so lets do so.

Kenobi knew Skywalker's fighting style inside and out. Skywalker was in a rage- he was out of his mind. Obi-Wan was better able to utilize terrain effectively. All of this shows that Kenobi was the better duelist. Anakin may have been more skilled, but Kenobi will still win against an enraged Anakin. He is a much smarter fighter.

LOL, i want to join the kenobi vs. obi-wan discussion!!

i think that Kenobi >Anakin >Dooku > Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by truejedi
LOL, i want to join the kenobi vs. obi-wan discussion!!

i think that Kenobi >Anakin >Dooku > Obi-Wan.

Rock > Scissors > Paper > Rock


Rock > Scissors
Paper > Rock
Paper > Scissors


Oh... Wait...

Yahwe darn it!

i was laughing over you saying kenobi was fighting obi-wan. you did pick up on the fact you wrote that, right?

Originally posted by truejedi
i was laughing over you saying kenobi was fighting obi-wan. you did pick up on the fact you wrote that, right?

Ultimate Vader brought up Kenobi's victory over Anakin as PIS or at least invalid in at least three threads tonight. I didn't like that. He's the one that started it.


*two year old voice*HE STARTED IT!!1111!!!11!1!!!!!!!!!!!

no red, obi-wan vs. Kenobi. what's wrong with that? if you had said obi-wan vs. anakin, that would be pretty valid!

OMG



I just couldn't see it. My bad. Maybe Rex will edit it for me...

lol, i was starting to wonder if i was seeing things. I went back and checked it twice before posting that last one. lol, and you kept laughing at yourself for things i hadn't even been talking about!

I'm bad at this, OK? Don't make fun of me.




Stuff like this just makes me giggle inside. I think I need to go to bed.

Someone should make a thread about obi vs anakin.
I am not going to because i just made a thread and people might say
"stop making so many threads!''
(it's what they said the first day i joined)

Originally posted by skywalker833
Someone should make a thread about obi vs anakin.
I am not going to because i just made a thread and people might say
"stop making so many threads!''

i wish someone would say that to coolmovies in the PT section...half the 1st page is his banal threads

lol. first day on kmc, I made five threads, people got pissed... good times.

Dooku isn't as superior to Obi-Wan in lightsaber combat as everyone thinks.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Dooku isn't as superior to Obi-Wan in lightsaber combat as everyone thinks. Yuh-huh.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Dooku isn't as superior to Obi-Wan in lightsaber combat as everyone thinks.
I actually agree with you. Obi-Wan is the master of soresu. Dooku has never penetrated obi wan's 20 strike defense.
Dooku wins because of the force.

I haven't seen Dooku do anything in the CW to make me think he'd beat RotS Obi-Wan as easily as people think with a lightsaber.

the point is he HASN'T. imo, people underestimate obi when it comes to him and dooku.

It's true.

His highlights from the CW is, from my memory only and I'm sure I'm missing some things:

Running from Yoda even though he had every situational advantage.

Beating GG and Ventress, both of whom are inferior to Obi-Wan's level by RotS.

Running from Mace.

Fighting Anakin again, though he wasn't dominating him in sabers like he did the first time.

Getting beheaded.

Originally posted by skywalker833
lol. first day on kmc, I made five threads, people got pissed... good times.

i made 1...people got pissed...i guess some members don't really grasp that fact that making threads is what forums are actually for

saying that...i've only made about 20-30 threads in the entire time i've been here

i think i've made about 20 on all 4 star wars forums. (though there were more star wars forums back when i started.) It doesn't make sense either, sometimes the dumbest threads get pages of replies, while well-thought out questions gets 20 views and 2 replies. (see the top 10 most powerful jedi/sith thread) how many threads like that have we already had?

Originally posted by skywalker833
the point is he HASN'T. imo, people underestimate obi when it comes to him and dooku.

Don't you think that pure saber skills are somewhat moot when one guy can pwn the other with the force, regardless?

Mostly. But I think obi wan has more power in the force than what people think he has.

How much power do they think he has? My impression is that he has a good grip on the force and is an expert swordsman.

But Dooku is simply a badass who has had many more years than Kenobi to refine his technique whilst also having the benefit of Sith teachings.

What fashion, which fight?

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
What fashion, which fight?

A non existent fight.

On random terrain.

As for fashion, it would be the fashion in which he disposed of him on the Invisible Hand.

Do you mean the force toss?

No.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Do you mean the force toss?

No.

Yes, that is what I meant.

Thanks.

I have read some EU material but not all of the relevant material.

Originally posted by skywalker833
I actually agree with you. Obi-Wan is the master of soresu. Dooku has never penetrated obi wan's 20 strike defense.


Obi-Wan does not have a '20 strike defence.' The line states:

"at twenty strikes per second, he overloaded Obi-Wan's defence."

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
It's true.

His highlights from the CW is, from my memory only and I'm sure I'm missing some things:

Running from Yoda even though he had every situational advantage.

yes so loosing to the "Most Devastatingly Powerful Opponent the Darkness had ever known" ROTS novel, is somehow supposed to make Dooku weak??? The fact that he was even able to Compete against Yoda on neutral ground in AOTC is a bigger feat than the Vast Majority of Jedis would ever be capable of including Obi1.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Beating GG and Ventress, both of whom are inferior to Obi-Wan's level by RotS.

When Obi1 can put Ventress to the floor by simply lifting a finger is the day you can compare Obi1 to Dooku.


Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Running from Mace..

You mean a Strategic Retreat after clearly matching Mace in sabers alone. and you do realise that Sidious attempted to run from Yoda right?? so your point exactly??


Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Fighting Anakin again, though he wasn't dominating him in sabers like he did the first time...

He was quite equal to the Chosen One in Sabers during CW but was clearly far superior in the Force, putting him on his ass twice using the Force. Though Anakin seemed physically stronger putting Dooku on his ass once via a kick.

and you do realise The Chosen One was already Knighted by that point right??

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Getting beheaded.


By the end of a fight which started with Dooku dominating both ObiWan and Anakin simultaneously.

Here is my take

in aotc, lucas needed to find a way to have anakin get a 1on 1 with dooku in which he gets pwnt to harken back to the esb duel, and the only way that could happen is if obi wan is decomissioned so his defeat was merely a plot device
which when you stop and think about it maked no sense because if he was able to talk, and use the force to pick up a lightsaber and throw it, why not get up and join the fight, and why would he give anakin 2 blades anyway? he as anakin's master should know that anakin doesnt know jar kai only shien
but anyway obi wan's defeat in episode 3 was done for the same reason, to give anakin a 1 on 1 with dooku where he is tempted by the emporor who is sitting in a chair to kill a sith lord, which is meant to pay homage to luke's expirience in rotj

imho in reality obi wan wouldnt go down so easily, lucas just needed a plot device

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
yes so loosing to the "Most Devastatingly Powerful Opponent the Darkness had ever known" ROTS novel, is somehow supposed to make Dooku weak???

No, but it doesn't make him "strong" either.




Except they weren't on equal ground. Every time Yoda and Dooku fought Yoda was holding back, and the second time they fought theywere fighting on a planet that was so steeped in the dark side that it gave him a power boost, yet he still couldn't win.



When Dooku can stalemate the chosen the one in a force duel or send a cyborg flying hundreds of feet you can call me.



No, thats not what I meant. I meant what I said, Dooku ran. You're claiming that they were "matched"? Prove it.



And Yoda was beggining to overpower Sideous as the fight went on. What are you saying?



Relevence?



And then ended when Anakin went all otu and got "in teh zone", at which point Dooku got his ass whooped near effortlessly?

Because throwing someone a two-pound metal bar is the same as jumping up and effectively fighting one of the greatest and most powerful swordsmen in history?

Duh. Everything's a plot device.

Doesn't mean it didn't happen, or is somehow less relevant.

"hundreds of feat" was an exaggeration.

I've been on here for 3-4 years now and i've seen just about every character go from being awesome to not so great to uber and back again.

as of right now I say that the people on here don't give obi-wan enough credit in just about everything. That's all i'm going to say about kenobi.

Originally posted by Faunus
Because throwing someone a two-pound metal bar is the same as jumping up and effectively fighting one of the greatest and most powerful swordsmen in history?

Duh. Everything's a plot device.

Doesn't mean it didn't happen, or is somehow less relevant. still obi wan should know that anakin isnt effective with jar kai

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
No, but it doesn't make him "strong" either.

by that logic no one but Sidious is strong.
anyone who can even fight yoda HAS TO BE very strong.


Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Except they weren't on equal ground. Every time Yoda and Dooku fought Yoda was holding back, and the second time they fought theywere fighting on a planet that was so steeped in the dark side that it gave him a power boost, yet he still couldn't win.

If your referring to Vjun the novel states Yoda was overpowering Dooku "Slowly, slowly.." also the darkness of Vjun was making Yoda more fierce and relentless than ever!
it also stated that Yoda was willing to kill Dooku. "even in this dark place love you enough to kill you i do.." suggesting he was always "Willing" to kill Dooku. so learn to read WHOLE pages. it might improve your literacy and your intelligence. Just MAYBE in your case.

and "holding back" is quite ambiguous. holding back by how much?? by
5% of his power , 15%?? your just making basless assumptions to downgrade Dookus feat of being one of the elite few who can even attempt to fight Yoda.



Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
When Dooku can stalemate the chosen the one in a force duel or send a cyborg flying hundreds of feet you can call me. .

Hes already proven on more than one occasion that hes FAR SUPERIOR to Anakin or Obi-Wan in the Force. Your being seriously stupid.




Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
No, thats not what I meant. I meant what I said, Dooku ran. You're claiming that they were "matched"? Prove it.

Just use your eyes! they were exactly even matching each other blade for blade, neither of them giving ground. and no he didnt "Run." Show me the scene where he "Ran." You cant, because it doesnt exist. he casually walked away laughing, while Mace was falling down disarmed.

And Dookus smart. hes not as dumb as you to stay and fight a long drawn out fight with Mace just to prove he can do that! while in the mean time all the other jedis come and make sure he has absolutely no chance of escape. seriously try using your brain.


Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
And Yoda was beggining to overpower Sideous as the fight went on. What are you saying?.

you seriously are blind if thats what you saw. neway what im saying is that Sith are not as dumb as you, and would rather escape than have a fight to the death with someone whose very possibly their equal and has just as much chance of killing them as vice versa.



Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
And then ended when Anakin went all otu and got "in teh zone", at which point Dooku got his ass whooped near effortlessly?



actually that was with effort. It was Dooku who disposed of Obi1 Effortlessly. and simultaneously kicked Anakin across the room and onto his rear Effortlessly. Seriously dude you need to get your eyes tested, and get a new prescription for your glasses.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
You seem dead set on discussing Kenobi vs. Obi-Wan, so lets do so.

Kenobi knew Skywalker's fighting style inside and out. Skywalker was in a rage- he was out of his mind. Obi-Wan was better able to utilize terrain effectively. All of this shows that Kenobi was the better duelist. Anakin may have been more skilled, but Kenobi will still win against an enraged Anakin. He is a much smarter fighter.

LOL kenobi is obi wan
I want to join discussion also

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
by that logic no one but Sidious is strong.
anyone who can even fight yoda HAS TO BE very strong. He meant that just because Dooku lost to Yoda, it doesn't mean Dooku's strong. Just as if Zett Jukasa lost to Yoda, it doesn't make him strong either.

Some rather interesting points I have not seen brought up yet. The events leading up to the AOTC duel; surviving the execution attempt, wielding an unfamiliar lightsaber, having just survived the nefarious battle at Geonosis, Kenobi takes on Dooku alone. These in tandem already suggest a considerable advantage for the Count. Examining the mark of contact is also quite telling, the following is taken from The Essential Guide to the Force, Jedi vs. Sith: "Shiim is any kind of wound that is made with the edge of a lightsaber blade. An inconclusive mark of contact, shiim is considered inferior to other marks that decisively end a battle. Thus, its appearance expresses nothing more than a struggle with a powerful opponent (114)" As opposed to the wound young Skywalker suffered, Cho mai; to cut off the weapon hand, which "is considered the mark of a superior lightsaber master" It seems if anyones pride took a substantial dive post the AOTC duel it was doubtful Kenobi's.
The ROTS duel has, prior to Kenobi's pristine disposal, him neatly disposing of Dooku's droids, which suggests somewhat of a cheapshot, but surely all is fair in love and war

Count Dooku was an incredible fighter, he defeated Obi Wan in a duel ( although Obi Wan was only a Jedi Knight) he then cut off Anakins arm. He then fought Yoda ( in which he might have lost, but by distracting Yoda, he was able to flee, showing his fighting awarness). Didn't he fight Mace Windu to a stalemate???. All that in mind, he just wasn't as good as Anakin, but remember, Anakin is the chosen one, he wasn't just a normal jedi knight. Only Obi Wan Kenobi and Luke Skywalker were able to defeat Anakin.
Point is, Dooku was a brilliant fighter and a definate genius, but cmo'n only the truly greatest could defeat Anakin.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
If your referring to Vjun the novel states Yoda was overpowering Dooku "Slowly, slowly.." also the darkness of Vjun was making Yoda more fierce and relentless than ever!
it also stated that Yoda was willing to kill Dooku. "even in this dark place love you enough to kill you i do.." suggesting he was always "Willing" to kill Dooku. so learn to read WHOLE pages. it might improve your literacy and your intelligence. Just MAYBE in your case.

Here is the definition of willing: Disposed or inclined; prepared.

Here is the definition of try: To make an effort to do or accomplish (something); attempt.

Do you see the difference? Willing to do something and trying to do something are different things.

Yoda was not trying to kill Dooku, he was only willing to. Yoda was holding back on Dooku.

My proof:

Yoda never used the force on Dooku as a weapon, he only used it to shrug off Dooku's attacks.

Proof to that statement:

When Dooku tried to hearl machinery and debris at Yoda, Yoda threw them aside instead of throwing them back at him. When Sidious attempted to crush Yoda with a senate pod, Yoda used the force to throw it back, not aside. Face it Yoda is far above Dooku in the force.

Yoda did not even seem to feel threatened by Dooku, using the statement "Much to learn you still have."





As far as mastery yes.






If you are refering to the duel between Dooku and Mace, i seem to recall Dooku having the help of two magna guards.

Jedi also run when they seem to feel threatened, such as Yoda "running after his fight with Sidious. Fisto after his fight with Grievous and the magna guards.





Dooku's thoughts on Anakin were that he was a storm waiting to be unleashed. After using taunts against Anakin, Dooku released that storm and became overpowered by it, and thus being killed.

So we have the master of Form II (Makashi)
Against
the master of Form III (Soresu)

"During his duel with Count Dooku aboard the Invisible Hand, Kenobi's expertise in Soresu allowed him to parry the Count's elegant Makashi strikes."

Also

"Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi, despite his preference for Soresu, applied Shii-Cho elements and Ataru acrobatics into his swordplay, as evidenced by his recollection of his intense duel with the Sith Lord Count Dooku on board the Invisible Hand. This, however, he did to confuse Dooku, as he later switched back to his true form, Soresu."

So I believe that Obi-Wan has the ability to defeat Dooku since he's a smarter fighter and possibly be able to tire Dooku out over time, but this is countered by Dooku's strength in the Force, however overall i would most likely give it to Obi-Wan 6/10 terrain permitting.

I agree. Obi Wan is a smarter fighter, and a better swordsman. Dooku's force abilities always gave him the upper hand in the duels though...

I believe that Kenobi is an inferior swordsman compared to Dooku. I know Kenobi has an advanced skill with swordplay and even the force but Dooku is superior. That's just how it is. Kenobi failed to outmaneuver Dooku in lightsaber fights and with the force. Why should we just assume he has more skill? Did he show some hidden skill I didn't see when he was trapped under a giant walkway?

Originally posted by Genesis
Did he show some hidden skill I didn't see when he was trapped under a giant walkway?

Battle Meditation...

He was waiting for the right moment to strike...then realised he was unconcious and pinned to the ground...

Force wise, Dooku completely obliterated Obi-Wan...simply because Dooku has train with both sides of the force so his knowledge was open.

Obi-Wan however failed at saber combat, because he's not agressive, he's a preferably passive jedi. If Dooku vs. Obi-Wan took place on Mustafar, no doubt Dooku would have been in a metal suit 5 hours later...not sure why i'm trying to defend Obi-Wan here, everything i come up with shows that Dooku is the superior...everything.

That's hilarious.

Well, it's essential fact that Kenobi isn't nearly as proficient offensively as he is defensively. I'd say that Dooku is the superior swordsman, but in a strict clashing of sabers, it would take him (or anyone else) forever to breach Kenobi's defense without an application of supernatural physical strength and speed.

fk dooku

Originally posted by Darth Storm
fk dooku

You always have the greatest inputs to any conversation.