Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

just was debating this over at the marvel boards. which i owned. thought i'd give it a whirl here.


who wins and why?

DD.

Better fighter overall, more agile, more skill. Plus hes better with the ladies.

matt

i say WC. he has olympic level agility/speed, which isn't far from DD's peak human.plus he's just about as strong/durable as a human can get. he's beaten superhumans in straight up brawls.he had an obvious advantage when him and bats went head to head with spiked metal gloves. i just don't see DD KOing a guy who can take a beating from batman equipped with spiked metal golves.i'd say he has a stamina advantage as well, being the single best boxer.he has many years on DD and more experience to boot.i'd also argue that he is more skilled. just because DD is primarily MA and WC has boxing, doesn't mean DD is more skilled. MA doesn't neccesarily>boxing(many seem to assume it does), especially when one can boast to being the single best at his primary fighting skill, while the other couldn't dream of it.besides. WC is trained in muay tai,capoeira,krav maga,hapkaido,and kickboxing as well as being the best in boxing.

Lol. Same as in the Wildcat v Cap thread, DD for the win all day.

sure........if wildcat didn't fight back.lol


DD would still be hard pressed to KO him. no, seriously.

Tell that to the 100 Yakuza that Daredevil was beating the crap out of.

Originally posted by namorsubby
i say WC. he has olympic level agility/speed, which isn't far from DD's peak human.plus he's just about as strong/durable as a human can get. he's beaten superhumans in straight up brawls.he had an obvious advantage when him and bats went head to head with spiked metal gloves. i just don't see DD KOing a guy who can take a beating from batman equipped with spiked metal golves.i'd say he has a stamina advantage as well, being the single best boxer.he has many years on DD and more experience to boot.i'd also argue that he is more skilled. just because DD is primarily MA and WC has boxing, doesn't mean DD is more skilled. MA doesn't neccesarily>boxing(many seem to assume it does), especially when one can boast to being the single best at his primary fighting skill, while the other couldn't dream of it.besides. WC is trained in muay tai,capoeira,krav maga,hapkaido,and kickboxing as well as being the best in boxing.

Strength: DD by a longshot
Speed and reflexes: DD by an even longer shot (blocking bullets with his batons)
Skill: DD can conceivably be put in the top 5 for Marvel martialartists.
Wildcat is not a top tier. Plus DD has shown an incredible grasp of pressure point knowledge and has some very impressive feats in this department.
So no DD would KO Wildcat hard.

you just can't get any more incorrect.



batman was hard pressed to with metal spiked gloves. superhumans like killer wasp who have superhuman strength have been as well. DD's not KOing anyone anytime soon.

You harping on a single example doesn't change the fact that DD is stronger, faster, more agile and more skilled.

prove he's stronger. prove he's more skilled. i know he's faster/more agile.


time for you guys to do something. it'll be hard for you to prove anything thing though because you don't know where WC is at to begin with. you're solely relying on me. pretty selfish.

Easily done, here is a Daredevil respect thread.

http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,117189.0.html

Now, where are the matching Wildcat feats?

Originally posted by namorsubby
you just can't get any more incorrect.



batman was hard pressed to with metal spiked gloves. superhumans like killer wasp who have superhuman strength have been as well. DD's not KOing anyone anytime soon.

Do you mean this encounter?
http://img106.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=44b_batgrant1.jpg&loc=loc87
http://img105.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc96&image=13a_batgrant2.jpg
http://img21.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc140&image=11a_batgrant3.jpg

Batman was holding back allot since he knew who he was fighting and Wildcat was going for broke as he didn't know he was fighting Bats. Still Batman decked him. Batman was not really being hard pressed. Back on topic.

1. that's not the fight i'm speaking of at all. it is a direct contraction to it actually. brave and the bold #118.look it up.

i also notice you had no response to the statement concerning the superhumanly fast,strong, and durable killer wasp and their h2h brawl. JSA #10. look it up.


2. it doesn't even matter though, because batman>daredevil anyway(especially in that circumstance).what's you're point?

And until you post matching feats DD >> Wildcat.

Originally posted by Silent Master
And until you post matching feats DD >> Wildcat. what do you mean posting matching feats?



what feats have you posted to superceed WC's?



i can answer that for you , nothing

Originally posted by Silent Master
Easily done, here is a Daredevil respect thread.

http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,117189.0.html

Now, where are the matching Wildcat feats? sadly, no one has laid them out conviniently for me like they have concerning DD for you.



ah well, that's life.

I've posted a link to an entire respect thread for Daredevil, until you can post matching or superior feats, all you have is unsupported claims.

so you want me to look in the DD respect thread. pick out his best feats. and look up and scan or download superior feats from wildcat to prove something to you?

you've done nothing at all on this thread. like i said before:

Originally posted by namorsubby
prove he's stronger.




Uses 400lb weight as a weapon.Then throws it hard and fast at a guy!
http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevil179071ug.jpg
http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevil179085lp.jpg
http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevil179098is.jpg

Using only one arm he dangles a fully grown man with ridiculous ease.
http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevil375withalittlehelpfro.jpg

Breaks chains.....
http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ironmanv1035157do.jpg

Bit of limo flipping
http://img360.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevilv2042089gp.jpg
http://img360.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevilv2042092oc.jpg

Some bar bending. Yeh yeh he can sense their weakest point, but still.....
http://img69.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevilyellow05062td.jpg
http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevilyellow05078vv.jpg

Thankyou herochat.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I've posted a link to an entire respect thread for Daredevil, until you can post matching or superior feats, all you have is unsupported claims. you have to actually bring out specific scans supporting your character, not post a porn link... or spyware lolz

Devil FTW. :O
I can say one thing tho, Wildcat physically stronger*

I've provided a link that has multiple Daredevil feats, which is far more than you've done.

Originally posted by Warrior18
Do you mean this encounter?
http://img106.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=44b_batgrant1.jpg&loc=loc87
http://img105.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc96&image=13a_batgrant2.jpg
http://img21.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc140&image=11a_batgrant3.jpg

Batman was holding back allot since he knew who he was fighting and Wildcat was going for broke as he didn't know he was fighting Bats. Still Batman decked him. Batman was not really being hard pressed. Back on topic. hey. wait a minute?


that was a training session. WC was training batman. they weren't actually seriously fighting. and it still didn't show whether WC was Koed are not(skeptical).


tried to screw me over aye?

Flips a limo over:

http://img360.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevilv2042089gp.jpg
http://img360.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevilv2042092oc.jpg

Casually holds a full-grown man (about 200-300 lbs.) with one arm:

http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevil375withalittlehelpfro.jpg

Curls a 400 lb weight easily, then he uses it as a weapon:

http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevil179071ug.jpg
http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevil179085lp.jpg
http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevil179098is.jpg

DD breaks some chains

http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ironmanv1035157do.jpg

Originally posted by namorsubby

i also notice you had no response to the statement concerning the superhumanly fast,strong, and durable killer wasp and their h2h brawl. JSA #10. look it up.




Don't really care DD has fought physically superior foes too throughout his career.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I've provided a link that has multiple Daredevil feats, which is far more than you've done. i've cited specifically several of wildcat's feats with issue numbers. that's far more than you've done.

Originally posted by Warrior18
Don't really care DD has fought physically superior foes too throughout his career. how many times has he defeated a foe with superhuman speed,agility,strength, and durability in a straight up no nonsense brawl? i mean with no plot devices and no tricks.

Daredevil #56

Daredevil fights 100 Yakuza, several of which have taken a drug that grants superpowers.

does he win?

Yes.

This is stupid. DD wins and Wildcats one of the few DC characters that I like.

My answer might have changed if this was purely a boxing match, but it isnt.

these feats are much harder to come by. bear with me.lol


wildcat fights vandal savage. easily blocks a engine thrown at him with his forearms

Originally posted by namorsubby
how many times has he defeated a foe with superhuman speed,agility,strength, and durability in a straight up no nonsense brawl? i mean with no plot devices and no tricks.

To be fair you do have me here, I can't really give you examples of pure H2H fights off the top of my head from DD's entire past. Having said that all you have mentioned is a fight against some probably B list foe and no scan. However this is besides the point, we need to compare DD and Wildcat and not their previous fights against other foes, it is a bit ABC don't you think? Now I have provided strength feats for DD. What about some strength scans from Wildcat?

ps the Batman v Wildcat fight I jacked from some cool Batman website. Over their they state it is from Batman/Wildcat #3.

Originally posted by namorsubby
does he win?

Yep. In under three minutes.

Originally posted by namorsubby
wildcat fights vandal savage. easily blocks a engine thrown at him with his forearms

Wildcat fights Vandal Savage. Who won? Last time i checked, Savage isnt superhuman. Daredevil blocked Caps shield with his forearms. Caps shield > Engine.

Originally posted by namorsubby
how many times has he defeated a foe with superhuman speed,agility,strength, and durability in a straight up no nonsense brawl? i mean with no plot devices and no tricks.

Who has WC beat that had superhuman speed, strength, agility and durability in a straight up brawl with no plot devices or tricks? Then the question gets asked, was it CIS? Or PIS?

Can you list them?

Originally posted by jrodslam
Who has WC beat that had superhuman speed, strength, agility and durability in a straight up brawl with no plot devices or tricks? Then the question gets asked, was it CIS? Or PIS?

Can you list them?

Some clown called Killer Wasp apparently. Can't find any info on him apart from wikipedia which says he was enhanced. No scan from namorsbuddy though. Not really an impressive win though in my opinion. Killer Wasp is obviously some z-list loser.

Let's see how well Wildcat handles this

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/1354/daredevilv20617zm1.jpg

Originally posted by jrodslam
Wildcat fights Vandal Savage. Who won? Last time i checked, Savage isnt superhuman. Daredevil blocked Caps shield with his forearms. Caps shield > Engine. sorry. had to leave for a sec.


just so you know. vandal savage is a superhuman immortal with excellent combat skills and a millenia of experience.. and heck no, cap shields isn't comparable to him tossing an engine.not close.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Let's see how well Wildcat handles this

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/1354/daredevilv20617zm1.jpg that means nothing at all. it was a nerve strike. nothing would stop WC from doing the exact same thing if he had knowledge of it.

next?

Originally posted by jrodslam
Who has WC beat that had superhuman speed, strength, agility and durability in a straight up brawl with no plot devices or tricks? Then the question gets asked, was it CIS? Or PIS?

Can you list them? thats the kind of talk that makes me think speaking to you is hopeless.

Originally posted by Warrior18
Some clown called Killer Wasp apparently. Can't find any info on him apart from wikipedia which says he was enhanced. No scan from namorsbuddy though. Not really an impressive win though in my opinion. Killer Wasp is obviously some z-list loser. does that cancel out his powers?


what are you guys trying to argue?

namorsubby could you please post scans of wildcat's strength feats as we have done for DD then we can compare and hopefully come to some sort of conclusion.

Originally posted by namorsubby
does that cancel out his powers?


what are you guys trying to argue?

Basically that your only argument for wildcat winning is some victory he had over some probable joke of an opponent.

Originally posted by namorsubby
that means nothing at all. it was a nerve strike. nothing would stop WC from doing the exact same thing if he had knowledge of it.

next?

You just said it yourself,,,,if he had knowledge of it. This is why DD is above Wildcat. He has more knowledge of fighting techniques.

Next.

Originally posted by namorsubby
that means nothing at all. it was a nerve strike. nothing would stop WC from doing the exact same thing if he had knowledge of it.

next?

Lol.Does Wildcat have knowledge of nerve strikes?

Originally posted by namorsubby
that means nothing at all. it was a nerve strike. nothing would stop WC from doing the exact same thing if he had knowledge of it.

next?

Yea...and if he had superstrength he could throw a car at Daredevil, if he had superpseed he could speedblitz DD or if he had telepathy he could mind control DD. However Wildcat has none of those(including pressure point knowledge).

So, exactly what point were you trying to make?

Originally posted by Warrior18
Lol.Does Wildcat have knowledge of nerve strikes? you guys aren't even reading what i'm posting. what's the point?



like i said before, mauy tai, capoeira , krav maga, hapkaido, and kickboxing along with being the best boxer. hapkaido employs pressure points. so yeah, he does.



BTW, the savage feat is more impressive than anything i've seen for DD. but i'm afraid it's gone to waste because you guys don't seem to know who vandal savage is either. anyway, i'll upload the scans and post em. be right back.

Originally posted by namorsubby
does that cancel out his powers?


what are you guys trying to argue?

What level are his powers at and how skilled is he, plus just how did Wildcat beat him?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Yea...and if he had superstrength he could throw a car at Daredevil, if he had superpseed he could speedblitz DD or if he had telepathy he could mind control DD. However Wildcat has none of those(including pressure point knowledge).

So, exactly what point were you trying to make? what are you even talking about? i've never said ted has superhuman anything.


i'm betting that was more of a frustrated trolling than anything else though.


now i'm completely sure you don't know what you're talking about. because he in fact does have knowledge of pressure points, having mastered hapkaido(check dc database). you're really just basing all your statements of what you see me say about him(and you're not even acknowledging half of that). why don't you give me a rundown on what you do know about WC?

Originally posted by Silent Master
What level are his powers at and how skilled is he, plus just how did Wildcat beat him? he's a low meta, but still superhuman.


he has no notable h2h skills.

Daredevil ftw.

Originally posted by namorsubby
you guys aren't even reading what i'm posting. what's the point?



like i said before, mauy tai, capoeira , krav maga, hapkaido, and kickboxing along with being the best boxer. hapkaido employs pressure points. so yeah, he does.



BTW, the savage feat is more impressive than anything i've seen for DD. but i'm afraid it's gone to waste because you guys don't seem to know who vand savage is either. anyway, i'll upload the scans and post em. be right back.

While you are away get some scans of wildcat's strength feats for the enth time.
Again you keep saying wildcat wins based on his feats against one or two other characters. Compare DD and wildcat.

Originally posted by namorsubby
he's a low meta, but still superhuman.


he has no notable h2h skills.

...........so he's a brick then.

Originally posted by namorsubby
what are you even talking about? i've never said ted has superhuman anything.


i'm betting that was more of a frustrated trolling than anything else though.


now i'm completely sure you don't know what you're talking about. because he in fact does have knowledge of pressure points, having mastered hapkaido(check dc database). you're really just basing all your statements of what you see me say about him(and you're not even acknowledging half of that). why don't you give me a rundown on what you do know about WC?

You completely missed my point, try reading the post I was responding to.

Plus, you're basing most of your argument of handbook/bios, can you show any comic examples of Wildcat using pressure points?

he's not a brick. he's also superhumanly fast/agile. he can fly too(that didn't come into play though)

Originally posted by namorsubby



now i'm completely sure you don't know what you're talking about. because he in fact does have knowledge of pressure points, having mastered hapkaido(check dc database).

Scans?

Originally posted by namorsubby
he's a low meta, but still superhuman.


he has no notable h2h skills.

So, below Spider-man in stats?

guys you can't expect me to cite a issue or provide you with a scan for every detail concerning wildcat. you're arguing against him while you're still in the dark trying to get to know him from nothing.how is that sensible?

here's the vandal scans.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/deadshot/14.jpg

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/deadshot/15.jpg


if you know savage, this should be an eyeopener.

Originally posted by namorsubby
guys you can't expect me to cite a issue or provide you with a scan for every detail concerning wildcat. you're arguing against him while you're still in the dark trying to get to know him from nothing.how is that sensible?

You have yet to provide any details in regards to his physical stats.

Originally posted by namorsubby
guys you can't expect me to cite a issue or provide you with a scan for every detail concerning wildcat. you're arguing against him while you're still in the dark trying to get to know him from nothing.how is that sensible?

Lol.All we are asking for are strength and skill feat scans. You have provided none. All you have done is talk about Wildcat's past encounters with stronger etc opponents. Which may I add don't prove anything.Why? Well because DD has held his own against Spiderman (a foe much more formidable and with far more feats than yours) before too, BUT I don't bring that up because it is somewhat lame to do so. I provide strength scans about DD and DD alone which can be used to effectively judge how strong he is.

*takes deep breath*..............alright guys. this is probably the messiest form of debate there is. we're going no where at all. i'm going to arrange this in points and see if you guys can address any thing you feel is incorrect in a certain organized order.


1.dd's main advatage, his speed/agility, is a slight one. WC is listed on every bio/stats page i've seen as olympic level agility/speed.NO, i won't give you scans.

2. WC is stronger, more durable, and generally tougher than DD.he also has more stimina(from having coompletely having mastered boxing) from brawling straight up with killer wasp in JSA 10 to taking a spiked metal batman beating and still having an obvious edge in brave and the bold #188. blocking an engine thrown by vandal in JSA #4 is a definite solidifier IMO.

3.Wc is much older and has far more experience. i think he is more skilled because unlike DD he can boast to being the single best in his primary fighting skill, boxing.besides that he's master several forms of MA skills previously named.

thesis:

wildcat wins against DD more often than not because he can afford to be slower than him. because he's tougher and stronger and has more stamina. and DD can't Ko WC with hit and run tactics. he'd have to dig in hard and really lay it on him, even then, it would be no easy task.



i ask that any replies be somewhat similar to my post.



edit:

show me strength feat better than this:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/deadshot/14.jpg


now show me a durability feat better than taking a "savage" blow to the back:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/deadshot/15.jpg

Engines only weigh a couple hundred pounds, IOW we have already posted better strength feats for DD.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You have yet to provide any details in regards to his physical stats. WTF?


what have i been doing this whole time? i told you everything about wildcat's physicality. the problem is you want a scan for every detail.this is the messiest debate i've ever been it. you're both going on and on adressing small parts of posts that i posted and in essence leading me away from the core of my argument.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Engines only weigh a couple hundred pounds, IOW we have already posted better strength feats for DD. you don't know who vadal savage is either then? there's nothing to work with if you guys don't have the common knowledge of a character from the beginning.especially one you're arguing against.


blocking an engine(which weighs about 500 pounds) thrown by the superhumanly strong savage is a greater strength feat than i've seen from DD ever.



i fear we'll drift only still further into irrelevancy as you respond.

1) Where did you get that it weighed 500 pounds and 2) We don't know how hard Savage threw it.

Originally posted by namorsubby
WTF?


what have i been doing this whole time? i told you everything about wildcat's physicality. the problem is you want a scan for every detail.this is the messiest debate i've ever been it. you're both going on and on adressing small parts of posts that i posted and in essence leading me away from the core of my argument.

You've mostly been giving your opinion with no proof to back it up, that engine block scan is the first time you have actually posted any kind of proof and that took 4 pages.

Originally posted by namorsubby
*takes deep breath*..............alright guys. this is probably the messiest form of debate there is. we're going no where at all. i'm going to arrange this in points and see if you guys can address any thing you feel is incorrect in a certain organized order.


1.dd's main advatage, his speed/agility, is a slight one. WC is listed on every bio/stats page i've seen as olympic level agility/speed.NO, i won't give you scans.

2. WC is stronger, more durable, and generally tougher than DD.he also has more stimina(from having coompletely having mastered boxing) from brawling straight up with killer wasp in JSA 10 to taking a spiked metal batman beating and still having an obvious edge in brave and the bold #188. blocking an engine thrown by vandal in JSA #4 is a definite solidifier IMO.

3.Wc is much older and has far more experience. i think he is more skilled because unlike DD he can boast to being the single best in his primary fighting skill, boxing.besides that he's master several forms of MA skills previously named.

thesis:

wildcat wins against DD more often than not because he can afford to be slower than him. because he's tougher and stronger and has more stamina. and DD can't Ko WC with hit and run tactics. he'd have to dig in hard and really lay it on him, even then, it would be no easy task.



i ask that any replies be somewhat similar to my post.

1. More than slight DD blocks gunfire with his batons.
2. No you haven't proved he is stronger. Check my post for DD strength feats. Stamina? I don't have a clue about.But your reason for Wildcat having more is hilarious. Durability? You say WC takes shots from superhumans and Batman with spiked gloves. Well DD takes shots from spiderman, tombstone and I've also seen a scan of him getting wacked by a lampost swung by Namor. Also old school Sabretooth and DD slugged it out.
3. Lol. Wildcat is no way even a top tier. Check the MA tier threads here. Most agree with me. Why? All he has shown are boxing skills. Not even nerve strikes (basic top tier stuff), unlike DD who has shown an astonishing grasp of such techniques. DD was trained by Stick an uber MA. DD has far more MA feats than Wildcat. As I said before DD can conceivably be in the top 5 Marvel MAs. The same can't be said of WC in DC.
4. DD has insane superhuman senses which coupled with his speed and absurd reflexes will make it even harder for WC to connect.

issue numbers aren't proof? bios/stats aren't proof.what are you guys thinking?



why don't you try telling me why you think DD wins. maybe in nice neat little points. then we can go from there. i'll now how to respond the right way and it'll be a little more organized. what do you say?


give it a go.

Handbook/bios have never been proof, as for issue numbers, theya re only proof if you actually list specific feats to go along with them.

So far the only strength feat you have really listed is blocking an engine and again those only weigh a few hundred pounds.

Originally posted by namorsubby
WTF?


what have i been doing this whole time? i told you everything about wildcat's physicality. the problem is you want a scan for every detail.this is the messiest debate i've ever been it. you're both going on and on adressing small parts of posts that i posted and in essence leading me away from the core of my argument.

I'm not going on and on. I've provided strength feats. Genuine strength feats. You haven't. All you have shown is a scan of Wildcat getting smacked around by Vandal. Impressive yes. Shows he is tough yes. But not the same as the feats I've posted. Also no different from DD getting smacked around by the likes of Spiderman. This and your continuous quoting from bios.

Originally posted by namorsubby
issue numbers aren't proof? bios/stats aren't proof.what are you guys thinking?



why don't you try telling me why you think DD wins. maybe in nice neat little points. then we can go from there. i'll now how to respond the right way and it'll be a little more organized. what do you say?


give it a go.

Read my four point post.

Originally posted by Warrior18
1. More than slight DD blocks gunfire with his batons.
2. No you haven't proved he is stronger. Check my post for DD strength feats. Stamina? I don't have a clue about.But your reason for Wildcat having more is hilarious. Durability? You say WC takes shots from superhumans and Batman with spiked gloves. Well DD takes shots from spiderman, tombstone and I've also seen a scan of him getting wacked by a lampost swung by Namor. Also old school Sabretooth and DD slugged it out.
3. Lol. Wildcat is no way even a top tier. Check the MA tier threads here. Most agree with me. Why? All he has shown are boxing skills. Not even nerve strikes (basic top tier stuff), unlike DD who has shown an astonishing grasp of such techniques. DD was trained by Stick an uber MA. DD has far more MA feats than Wildcat. As I said before DD can conceivably be in the top 5 Marvel MAs. The same can't be said of WC in DC.
4. DD has insane superhuman senses which coupled with his speed and absurd reflexes will make it even harder for WC to connect.


1. ok so. oylmpic level is not far under peak human, period.

2.the engine feat beats all DD's shown. dd curled 400. wildcat blocked at the very least a few hundred thrown by the superhuman vandal savage(whom you guys seem to know nothing about as well.oh well)

3.lol. you know namor is 100 class right? DD is human. there's just no way he can withstand a 100 class blow.i'm sorry, i don't mean to undermine him, but that's completely outrageous. 10 tons to the head would definitely kill any human too.sorry.

4.you have no idea how skilled WC is.how do you know what he's shown? you guys don't seem to remember that i'm telling you virtually everything you know about him. he's the best boxer comics have to offer and he's also mastered several other MA's

wc didn't have a problem connecting with and flooring someone with superhuman speed/agility along with superdurability. why would he have a problem connecting with DD?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Handbook/bios have never been proof, as for issue numbers, theya re only proof if you actually list specific feats to go along with them.

So far the only strength feat you have really listed is blocking an engine and again those only weigh a few hundred pounds. TOSSED BY VANDAL SAVAGE.AN ENGINE TOSSED BY VANDAL SAVAGE.


..................i know that means nothing to you, since you don't even know his powers, but...........ah forget it.


wildcat FTW


edit:

this is crazy, i'm not really even a big fan of WC.i guess now people are gonna be thinking i'm some kind of wildcat enthuiast.it's strange how that happens with every character i defend.only posted about him in 2 WC topics, my last 2. anyway i'm threw with WC threads. have a good one guys. it been a pl...............well, anyway have a good one.

Originally posted by namorsubby
1. ok so. oylmpic level is not far under peak human, period.

2.the engine feat beats all DD's shown. dd curled 400. wildcat blocked at the very least a few hundred thrown by the superhuman vandal savage(whom you guys seem to know nothing about as well.oh well)

3.lol. you know namor is 100 class right? DD is human. there's just no way he can withstand a 100 class blow.i'm sorry, i don't mean to undermine him, but that's completely outrageous. 10 tons to the head would definitely kill any human too.sorry.

4.you have no idea how skilled WC is.how do you know what he's shown? you guys don't seem to remember that i'm telling you virtually everything you know about him. he's the best boxer comics have to offer and he's also mastered several other MA's

wc didn't have a problem connecting with and flooring someone with superhuman speed/agility along with superdurability. why would he have a problem connecting with DD?

1: Er it is far behind someone who blocks bullets.

2: No it doesn't. He swung the weight round like a weapon with ease then threw it fast with ease.WC only blocked an engine thrown at him. We don't even know how long he held it up for. I personally think he just parried it.Check all the feats there are others. DD has much better and more numerous feats.

3. These are comics my friend. Peak humans skilled at fighting can roll with blows etc to limit the damage significantly. As usual you dismiss everything on panel as PIS or whatever.

4. He is an excellent boxer. That's it. May I ask where it says he has mastered several other martial arts?

5. The gulf in speed between many superhumans and very fast peak humans is small. Also DD is a much better fighter than Vandal ergo he would be harder to hit in that sense. Yes I don't know much about Vandal. I have no idea how fast he is. But I would guess he is not that much faster than peak humans if at all. Another poster seemed to even doubt his superhuman label.

...

It never even looked like the engine hit Ted to me; I mean when I read that comic I was under the impression he was sidestepping it...

/shrug

1. there's no excuse for any human surviving the slightest tap from namor, point blank period. it has nothing to do with me dimissing anything. if you see nothing wrong with that then there's no reason to debate with you at all.

i can't beleive people ramble about them hating batman so much when they see these things as acceptable.

if there's bat-god. there's definitely a cap-god and a devil-god. all three are disgraceful.

maybe i'll make a nice respect thread for WC so people can easily profit off of my work by going to my thread.easy access is key.

anyway, bye. i'll remake or return this topic when i'm through with the thread.............no, remake, definitely.

Originally posted by namorsubby
1. there's no excuse for nay human surviving the slightest tap from namor, point blank period. it has nothing to do with me dimissing anything. if you see nothing wrong with that then there's no reason to debate with you at all.

i can't beleive. people ramble about them hating batman so much when they see these tings as acceptable.

if there's bat-god. there's definitely a cap-god and a devil-god. all three are disgraceful.

maybe i'll make a nice respect thread for WC so people can easily profit off of my work by going to my thread.easy access is key.

anyway, bye.


If its any consolation its an old scan and it may not have hit DD fully.

oh, that's better *rolls eyes*

Big deal, Cap has caught his shield when it was thrown by the Hulk, who by the way is far far far stronger than Van but you don't see me using that in a debate about Cap's strength. Mainly because there is no way to prove how hard he threw it.

BTW, Daredevil casually threw that 400lb weight across a room, he's also flipped a limo that had like 4 people in it.

Originally posted by namorsubby
just so you know. vandal savage is a superhuman immortal with excellent combat skills and a millenia of experience.. and heck no, cap shields isn't comparable to him tossing an engine.not close.

Vandal savage is not known to always have superhuman strength or other physical attributes. Its fluctuated over the years. Yea he has the years of exp, but it can only take him so far in combat. When Savage tossed the engine, WC was no more than 3 ft away from him. It had no type of travel velocity, nor was it a big engine. not only was Cap further away from DD when he threw the shield, but Cap shild > the engine Savage threw.

Also, in the fight you mention where Savage threw the engine, not only did WC have help, but he beat Savage via plot device which was a friggin bus.

Originally posted by namorsubby
1. there's no excuse for any human surviving the slightest tap from namor, point blank period. it has nothing to do with me dimissing anything. if you see nothing wrong with that then there's no reason to debate with you at all.


Lol man. I didn't say I think it is acceptable for DD to withstand Namor's blows. I said it is on panel and peak humans regularly 'roll' etc with high powered blows. I only brought up the idea of DD surviving superhuman attacks because you kept on bringing up WC surviving assaults by Killer Wasp and Vandal. Sucks doesn't it?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Big deal, Cap has caught his shield when it was thrown by the Hulk, who by the way is far far far stronger than Van but you don't see me using that in a debate about Cap's strength. Mainly because there is no way to prove how hard he threw it.

BTW, Daredevil casually threw that 400lb weight across a room, he's also flipped a limo that had like 4 people in it. have you ever tried blocking something that you can lift. or blocking something that you can throw? not nearly the same.

take a guy who can lift 400lbs and then have something superhuman toss it at him. you think he'll easily block it? no, he'll be killed.same for being able to throw it yourself. think of the heaviest thing you can throw, and then think of what would happened if it was thrown at you.........don't even consider the it being thrown by something superhuman, just that. chances are, there's no way in helll you can block it. superior feat.


vandal is stronger than captain america. more durable too. he threw an engine, cap threw a shield. how can you sit here and tell me that is the lesser feat?

BTW, i wasn't using that feat to suggest WC could take vandal savage. savage could take WC and DD.

Originally posted by Warrior18
Lol man. I didn't say I think it is acceptable for DD to withstand Namor's blows. I said it is on panel and peak humans regularly 'roll' etc with high powered blows. I only brought up the idea of DD surviving superhuman attacks because you kept on bringing up WC surviving assaults by Killer Wasp and Vandal. Sucks doesn't it? don't act like it's comparable.


if i ever see WC withstand blowns from namor or any other 100 class character for that matter, i'd sure as hell gripe too.it's nonsense.

Yeh. So people.........DD for the win then?

no.

Everyone who has posted agrees with me!

they know as much as you do concerning wildcat. you're point?


you guys started out from the very beginning saying DD wins, and you knew nothing about WC. that right there tells me you had some other motive for voting the way you did. if you did that in the first place how do you expect me to sway you afterwards?

Yea...our motive is that DD is faster, more agile and more skilled.

Originally posted by Warrior18
1: Er it is far behind someone who blocks bullets.

2: No it doesn't. He swung the weight round like a weapon with ease then threw it fast with ease.WC only blocked an engine thrown at him. We don't even know how long he held it up for. I personally think he just parried it.Check all the feats there are others. DD has much better and more numerous feats.

3. These are comics my friend. Peak humans skilled at fighting can roll with blows etc to limit the damage significantly. As usual you dismiss everything on panel as PIS or whatever.

4. He is an excellent boxer. That's it. May I ask where it says he has mastered several other martial arts?

5. The gulf in speed between many superhumans and very fast peak humans is small. Also DD is a much better fighter than Vandal ergo he would be harder to hit in that sense. Yes I don't know much about Vandal. I have no idea how fast he is. But I would guess he is not that much faster than peak humans if at all. Another poster seemed to even doubt his superhuman label. If you read the encyclopedia of the DC universe, it tells you that Wildcat is also a master of kick boxing, krav maga, hapkido, copoeira and other forms and is the worlds best boxer.

Originally posted by kenobi
If you read the encyclopedia of the DC universe, it tells you that Wildcat is also a master of kick boxing, krav maga, hapkido, copoeira and other forms and is the worlds best boxer. I love both characters though and I think that daredevil is more agile. It would be very close. Wildcat is by FAR DC's most underrated fighter. He should be in the top 5.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Yea...our motive is that DD is faster, more agile and more skilled. you said he was stronger too, remember?


my point is how can you vote against a character while knowing nothing of him?



BTW, i've got quite a few scans so far. started on the WC respect thread today. i'll post what i have tommorrow



oh, and warrior18, that feat of batman Koing WC was not true.it's from batman/wildcat #3. he did not Ko wildcat with that hit. in fact, wildcat was completely fine afterwards.i think his performance in his bat fights alone constitute a win for WC. all DD has on batman is slightly better agility/speed.


so that's 2 stalemates with an edge to WC against batman.

I left that out since I don't know if everyone that has said DD wins agree with him being stronger, however I think we've all agreed with the points in my previous post.

even i agree. besides more skilled. your point?


those facts really have nothing to do with my argument for WC winning.

Originally posted by namorsubby
they know as much as you do concerning wildcat. you're point?


you guys started out from the very beginning saying DD wins, and you knew nothing about WC. that right there tells me you had some other motive for voting the way you did. if you did that in the first place how do you expect me to sway you afterwards?

No, I knew a bit about WC's physical stats and his back-story. Chill out, I had a basic knowledge of WC. I based my opinion on this and on DD's on panel feats. Since you are arguing for WC (and know more about him) the onus was was on you to provide evidence in his favour,which apart from some ambiguous engine feat, you haven't done.

i'm doing it now with my citing of feats through issue number, rather than scans.


scans will be in abundance shortly though(like today), be assured.

Originally posted by namorsubby
i'm doing it now with my citing of feats through issue number, rather than scans.


scans will be in abundance shortly though(like today), be assured.

I'm not taking issue with lack of scans per say. Nothing wrong with listing feats so long as they are on a par with or greater than DDs. I myself don't own a scanner so will find myself in the same boat as you.

I eagerly await them.

there's a few alrighty. about 70 something scans so far. including k-m's contribution.


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=495763


edit:

a few of his feats already(i'm not near completion yet). he's beaten a mind-controlled hawkman and endured his mace while evading his close range machine fire. he's beaten solomon grundy. he's beaten most of the justice society single handily.

he seems to be pretty formmiddable, does he not?

Originally posted by kenobi
If you read the encyclopedia of the DC universe, it tells you that Wildcat is also a master of kick boxing, krav maga, hapkido, copoeira and other forms and is the worlds best boxer.

Not sure which DC Encyclopedia you have, but the one i have says and i quote "Master of hand-to-hand combat, especially boxing; slowed aging (like other JSA members)"

I have the DC Encyclopedia hardcover (black). I believe it came out in 2004. Its says nothing about WC being a master at the other styles you mentioned.

DD wins........radar senses any one?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
DD wins........radar senses any one? ummm so?

radar senses isn't an advantage in a melee fight

Originally posted by Starscream M
ummm so?

radar senses isn't an advantage in a melee fight
..........yes it is.......... it allows him to prodict opponets attacks prior to them making them. It also allows him to see in 360 degree's meaning he never not able to see his opponets attacks. Theses are huge advantages.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
..........yes it is.......... it allows him to prodict opponets attacks prior to them making them. It also allows him to see in 360 degree's meaning he never not able to see his opponets attacks. Theses are huge advantages. it doesnt predict enemy moves...it just allows him to sense it, which normal eyesight allows as well

and seeing 360 is a big advantage here since its not like he's attacked from behind

also eyesight is better than radar in some areas

for example, you see your enemy has a bruise, you can keep attacking that area...with radar, you dont know whwer the opponent is injured

Originally posted by Starscream M
it doesnt predict enemy moves...it just allows him to sense it, which normal eyesight allows as well

and seeing 360 is a big advantage here since its not like he's attacked from behind

also eyesight is better than radar in some areas

for example, you see your enemy has a bruise, you can keep attacking that area...with radar, you dont know whwer the opponent is injured
same thing. Normal eyesight is vastly inferior to his radar in terms of sensing an opponets attack.

..........you could not be more wrong. Being able to see your opponet no matter were your standing is extremely important. DD can uses moves which would make other vulnerable to attack, but due to his radar senses he can see the attacks and dodge them.


No its really not most of the time.............

hahahah you do realizes DD can uses his radar senses to senses weak points in peoples bodies right?

Originally posted by Battlehammer


hahahah you do realizes DD can uses his radar senses to senses weak points in peoples bodies right? nope, didnt know that

meh I dont think his radar is a big factor in this fight...its going to come down to fighting skills and durability

Originally posted by Starscream M
ummm so?

radar senses isn't an advantage in a melee fight

Actually it is a tremendous advantage. It effectively means he can predict an attack.

http://img96.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevil260vitalsigns060id.jpg

Originally posted by Starscream M
nope, didnt know that

meh I dont think his radar is a big factor in this fight...its going to come down to fighting skills and durability
fighting skill matters little. sinces there roughly around the same though DD better.

durability? both have similar showings.


however DD radar senses allows him advantages no other human has. Ones that have allowed him to take capt out in a single move ect.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
fighting skill matters little. sinces there roughly around the same though DD better.

durability? both have similar showings.


however DD radar senses allows him advantages no other human has. Ones that have allowed him to take capt out in a single move ect.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
fighting skill matters little. sinces there roughly around the same though DD better.

durability? both have similar showings.


however DD radar senses allows him advantages no other human has. Ones that have allowed him to take capt out in a single move ect. i would think WC has better durability since he's a boxer...hes used to getting beat up

also fighting skills do matter...DD and WC are very different fighters

DD is more acrobatic while WC is better close up brawler

Originally posted by Starscream M
i would think WC has better durability since he's a boxer...hes used to getting beat up


umm.........DD is a trained boxer........expert actually.......and actually boxing would hurt his durability not help it. Boxer are uses to being hit with gloves. There not uses to bare knuckles which actually makes them easier to KO.

Originally posted by Starscream M
also fighting skills do matter...DD and WC are very different fighters

DD is more acrobatic while WC is better close up brawler
No he not. WC has enevr proven to be a betetr up closes fighter. Hell WC lack of versatility would hurt him in a fight with DD.

the threads up and running:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=495763


wildcat wins.

were on that thread does it show wildcat wins?

I mean first he not as agile, as fast, he not stronger nor more skilled nor does he have greater stamina.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
umm.........DD is a trained boxer........expert actually.......and actually boxing would hurt his durability not help it. Boxer are uses to being hit with gloves. There not uses to bare knuckles which actually makes them easier to KO.


No he not. WC has enevr proven to be a betetr up closes fighter. Hell WC lack of versatility would hurt him in a fight with DD. boxing certainly does not hurt someone's durability. the exact opposite actually. nice try though


wc's proven much more than some might think.check out the thread.


if you mean lack of versatily as in he's just a boxer, you're also wrong.wildcat is hands down the finest boxer who ever lived(stated in comics), but he has also mastered several martial arts, including mauy tai, hapkaido, capoeira, kickboxing, and krav maga. i have a canon comic bio that states this on the thread, and other scans that support it.

Originally posted by namorsubby
the threads up and running:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=495763


wildcat wins.

Nice thread. Good effort there.

Still think DD wins though.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
were on that thread does it show wildcat wins?

I mean first he not as agile, as fast, he not stronger nor more skilled nor does he have greater stamina. you obvioulsy don't know wildcat.


he's definitely tougher, he's more skilled, and stronger.


after posting all those scans i'm skeptical whether DD is even faster. wc has fought jay garrick and grabbed wally west. he also has examples of dodging point blank maching gunfire and ray guns.

wildcat is definitely the most under-rated fighter. jay garrick says he's the best fighter in the world. so does alan scott(grenn lantern), and stargirl.


WC has beaten hawkman. i made a hawkman vs DD thread to test the waters. obviously not to many think dd can beat hawkman.

Originally posted by Warrior18
Nice thread. Good effort there.

Still think DD wins though. why. explain.

Originally posted by namorsubby
why. explain.

Speed and reflexes: DD
Strength based on feats: DD
Skill: DD. Though WC is good.
Durability: Tie. Both have taken shots from heavy hitters.
Finally DD has his superhuman senses which are a huge huge huge advantage.

Originally posted by Warrior18
Speed and reflexes: DD
Strength based on feats: DD
Skill: DD. Though WC is good.
Durability: Tie. Both have taken shots from heavy hitters.
Finally DD has his superhuman senses which are a huge huge huge advantage. there's no way you logically came to this conclusion after seriously viewing my thread.


strength:WC
speed/agility: ?? wc has some feats that top all his
durability: definitely wildcat
skill: WC. he's fought and defeated tigress, who has superhuman fighting skills. that's right, better than any human, any peak human(cap, bats, etc). she also has enhanced sense(sound familiar?). he lost one time to her too, but that fight was extremely circmstancial. besides wc is the single best boxer to have ever lived, has mastered multiple ma's, has been stated to be the best fighter in the world several times, and has much more experience.

dd's senses only help him out really in the speed/agility category here, but like i said, the issue is debatable.


edit:

besides all that,ted has taken hawkman. check the dd vs HM thread. not pretty for dd fans.

If her skills were really superhuman(as in, better than any human), how did WC beat her?

Originally posted by namorsubby
there's no way you logically came to this conclusion after seriously viewing my thread.


strength:WC
speed/agility: ?? wc has some feats that top all his
durability: definitely wildcat
skill: WC. he's fought and defeated tigress, who has superhuman fighting skills. that's right, better than any human, any peak human(cap, bats, etc). she also has enhanced sense(sound familiar?). he lost one time to her too, but that fight was extremely circmstancial. besides wc is the single best boxer to have ever lived, has mastered multiple ma's, has been stated to be the best fighter in the world several times, and has much more experience.

dd's senses only help him out really in the speed/agility category here, but like i said, the issue is debatable.


edit:

besides all that,ted has taken hawkman. check the dd vs HM thread. not pretty for dd fans.

Strength: *sigh* DD until you show me WC bend bars with ease, twirl 400lbs weights like nothing and flip over limos.

Speed: DD until you show me WC deflect bullets with a baton.

Durability: WC is very tough, Ill give you that. He also seems to have a Punisher like pain tolerance. DD still has taken shots from the likes of Spiderman though.

Skill: She may be touted as superhumanly skilled, but she still lost to WC. :/ Superhumanly skilled is Karate Kid or the Mandarin. Anyway I said WC was good, I was too harsh on him before for sure. DD is a very good boxer too AND he is incredibly good at various other arts. He is far more versatile than WC. Show me WC match any of the insane pressure point and nerve strike feats DD has. I go by on panel feats and not encyclopedias/bios which frequently talk shit.

No DD's senses also mean he can sense incoming attacks.

I know I voted in favor of Hawkman against DD. In a pure one on one fight Hawkman would also take WC. I have seen scans of a MIND CONTROLLED Hawkman fighting WC.

making solomon grundy bleed > any dd strength feat cited

grabbing the flash > any speed feat i've ever heard from dd

how is dd more versatile? dd is a good boxer with ma's. wc is the best boxer to ever have existed with mastery of ma's and more experience to boot. besides tigress is superhumanly skilled and automatically disqualified from the ma rating scale, but she's obviously better than any peak human fighter.

wc has stalemates and 1 win vs batman, has defeated tigress, and has been stated several times to be the best fighter in the world.it's obvious he's a great fighter, not good.

sensing incoming attacks helps with speed/agility rating, like i said.




eh, fine though. agree to disagree.

wildcat FTW


edit:

at least you seem to have a general respect for wildcat, which is all i was aiming for. it's been a pleasure debate with you

Originally posted by Silent Master
If her skills were really superhuman(as in, better than any human), how did WC beat her? he's tougher and stronger and more experienced, just like with dd. he did lose once though


besides he's not to shabby himself, hence being called the world's best fighter a few times.

Originally posted by namorsubby
making solomon grundy bleed > any dd strength feat cited

grabbing the flash > any speed feat i've ever heard from dd


.........oh come on you have to be kidding me this is rediculous.

solomon grundy fluxates in powers all the time. One moment he fighting superman....next he getting knocked the **** out in brute forces by batman.

..........pleases every one and there mothers has hit flash........ It not really that impressive, you dont even know hwo fast he was going.......hell has not even robin hit flash before?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
.........oh come on you have to be kidding me this is rediculous.

solomon grundy fluxates in powers all the time. One moment he fighting superman....next he getting knocked the **** out in brute forces by batman.

..........pleases every one and there mothers has hit flash........ It not really that impressive, you dont even know hwo fast he was going.......hell has not even robin hit flash before?
what's ridiculous are these half hearted attampts to undermine WC.

if you see the scans you'll see that alan scott said he couldn't hurt him really. that was an extremely powerful version of grundy no doubt.

you're attempt to dismiss his speed feat means nothing.if you don't like that there's always his fight with jay garrick. if you don't believe that there's the fact that he displays the same routine speed feats of all the other peak humans(dodging gunfire, rays, etc)

Originally posted by namorsubby
what's ridiculous are these half hearted attampts to undermine WC.

if you see the scans you'll see that alan scott said he couldn't hurt him really. that was an extremely powerful version of grundy no doubt.

you're attempt to dismiss his speed feat means nothing.if you don't like that there's always his fight with jay garrick. if you don't believe that there's the fact that he displays the same routine speed feats of all the other peak humans(dodging gunfire, rays, etc)
I aint undermining anything I am stating facts. It a fact grundy power seems to fluxate. It a fact your feats are not nearly as impressive as they sound if you take the characters entire history into acount. also how is that more impressive then DD knocking hyde out? I mean all wildcat did was make him bleed.........batman was able to nock him out...........if anything would that not hurt your arguement?

Not dismissing anything. Hitting flash is somethign every street in DC seems to do. It not mroe imrpessive then hitting anyother speedster. It impressive, but does not in any way make him superior or equal to DD in speed. DD feats are far more plentiful and superior in msot cases. He ahs repeatedly deflected gun firer on numerous occassions.......when has wild cat done this?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I aint undermining anything I am stating facts. It a fact grundy power seems to fluxate. It a fact your feats are not nearly as impressive as they sound if you take the characters entire history into acount. also how is that more impressive then DD knocking hyde out? I mean all wildcat did was make him bleed.........batman was able to nock him out...........if anything would that not hurt your arguement?

Not dismissing anything. Hitting flash is somethign every street in DC seems to do. It not mroe imrpessive then hitting anyother speedster. It impressive, but does not in any way make him superior or equal to DD in speed. DD feats are far more plentiful and superior in msot cases. He ahs repeatedly deflected gun firer on numerous occassions.......when has wild cat done this? what about KOing hawkman?

wildcat grabbed flash in motion, not hit him.can't think of a peak human who's done that.i think deathstroke did it, but he's enhanced.

more plentiful, yes. much more plentiful, but more impressive, no.

Originally posted by namorsubby
what about KOing hawkman?

how si that more impressive then Koing hyde........Hawkman not even bullet proof if I recall correctly..........and not even overly strong.

Originally posted by namorsubby
wildcat grabbed flash in motion, not hit him.can't think of a peak human who's done that.i think deathstroke did it, but he's enhanced.
I need to see the feat to judge properly, but it seems no more impressive then any other dc street who has hit flash.

Originally posted by namorsubby
more plentiful, yes. much more plentiful, but more impressive, no.
on average I say so. DD on average show far greater reflexes. If you compare the two DD simply has more impressive shows and far more common showings then wildcats

Originally posted by namorsubby
what about KOing hawkman?

wildcat grabbed flash in motion, not hit him.can't think of a peak human who's done that.i think deathstroke did it, but he's enhanced.

more plentiful, yes. much more plentiful, but more impressive, no. Got scan of WC KO Hawkman?

Originally posted by vansonbee
Got scan of WC KO Hawkman? umm yeah.he also endures HM's mace and dodges his close range machine gunfire.



i've got that and much more........soon i'll have even more:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=495763

.......i thought about not doing this......i probably shouldn't do this......oh, well


BUMP

I have a question how many wildcats would it take to beat gorgon

how many dd's would it take to beat an uber powerful solomon grundy?

Originally posted by namorsubby
how many dd's would it take to beat an uber powerful solomon grundy?
about as many batmans which is one..........


though I was not stating some on DD beat it was a serous question.

bats beat a weak grundy.WC beat a grundy who can pose a real threat to someone like sentinal, even when he's going all out. there's a difference.


either way i wouldn't be suprised if bats beat anyone.and he's irrelevant anyway.

No not really grundy is a jobber eh jobs to street levels, unless you honestly believe WC can beat a class 100 who hulk was based off of........

no i don't.......i'm sensible, but if you want to put high end feats out there, so can i.

Originally posted by namorsubby
no i don't.......i'm sensible, but if you want to put high end feats out there, so can i.
You do realize your the one that putt out the high end feat right? I have not said a single feat at all................so your kinda condricting your suposes sensiblity..........

i thought you were saying DD beat gorgon with that statement earlier.


still that doesn't contradict anything.



btw, why don't you state why you believe DD wins and maybe we'll get started here.

Originally posted by namorsubby
bats beat a weak grundy.

Prove it.

Originally posted by batdude123
Prove it. bats beat him, duh, that's why.

the only reason i'm sure WC's grundy wasn't weak is because his showings with the JSA, particularly an enraged sentinal, right before.


either way. why is bats getting dragged into this? everyone knows he can beat anyone and will probably beat them at least once in his continuity.lol

Originally posted by namorsubby
i thought you were saying DD beat gorgon with that statement earlier.


still that doesn't contradict anything.



btw, why don't you state why you believe DD wins and maybe we'll get started here.

No and I told you that already. I was asking a serous question.



actaully it did...........


DD wins due to being slightly more skilled, more agile, superior reflexes and radar senses

why do you believe DD is more skilled?


has DD ever had a speed feat equivalent to fighting jay garrick or grabbing wally west by the wrist while he's running?


despite that though, i must admit i do believe DD is faster on average

Originally posted by namorsubby
bats beat him, duh, that's why.

And Wildcat beat Grundy too. Therefore, by your logic, Grundy was weak at the time. Obviously he wasn't strong enough at the time NOT to be KO'd by WC.

Assumptions in debates simply make you look foolish.

Originally posted by namorsubby
the only reason i'm sure WC's grundy wasn't weak is because his showings with the JSA, particularly an enraged sentinal, right before.

How do know Grundy wasn't more powerful when he fought Batman?

Again, assumptions don't work too well.

Originally posted by namorsubby
either way. why is bats getting dragged into this? everyone knows he can beat anyoned will probably beat them at least once in his continuity.lol

Because you were the one who brought him up.

lol, obviously you didn't see the fight. WC didn't KO him with his own power.


i didn't bring up bats. battlehammer did.

well.....that was completely irrelevent, buh-bye now


edit:
i think WC is more skilled, tougher, stronger,and not too much slower. he also has far more experience.

wildcat FTW

Originally posted by namorsubby
why do you believe DD is more skilled?


has DD ever had a speed feat equivalent to fighting jay garrick or grabbing wally west by the wrist while he's running?


despite that though, i must admit i do believe DD is faster on average
I gotta go, some idiot actaully argueing that some vamp faster then spiderman becauses spiderman said he was moving to fast for spiderman to catch up when it had 30 foot lead.

no way. wow........look's like you have a lot on your hands.good luck with that. i probably just wouldn't respond though.lol

Originally posted by namorsubby
lol, obviously you didn't see the fight. WC didn't KO him with his own power.

Which is even worse. He threw Grundy into a ventilation duct in order to knock him out. At least with punches or pressure point strikes, you can prove that either WC or Batman have both harmed beings with incredible durability. But by just KOing Grundy by tossing him into a duct like that, it doesn't exactly lend credence to Grundy being all that strong.

Originally posted by namorsubby
i didn't bring up bats. battlehammer did.

You brought up the sentiment of Batman defeating a "weak" Grundy. I simply called you out on your assumption.

Originally posted by namorsubby
well.....that was completely irrelevent, buh-bye now

Speaking of irrelevant, MANY feats that you like to use for Wildcat take place in the Pre-Crisis era and therefore, are unusable for Ted. Have a nice day.

WC used grundy's own momentum to KO him......so i guess that means he's strong enough to KO himself. say's nothing on his durability.

i don't even have too many old feats on the thread. i'm sure you can't name one i used that's irrelevant or non-canon, etc

you're on the DD vs WC thread, but haven't commented on anything close to relevant once........are you lost?

buh-bye now

Originally posted by namorsubby
i don't even have too many old feats on the thread. i'm sure you can't name one i used that's irrelevant or non-canon, etc

you're on the DD vs WC thread, but haven't commented on anything close to relevant once........are you lost?

buh-bye now

Oh really?

Originally posted by namorsubby
8.Ted grabs The Flash in motion!. wally west i believe. he even compliments ted on his formiddability:
http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo227/wilcat92/jla124-16.jpg

Written in 1975. 10 years prior to the Crisis. Therefore, it's not in continuity, and cannot be used as a feat for Wildcat. And btw, that's Barry Allen, not Wally West.