Ken Masters VS Geese Howard

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Sado22
this is SF3 Ken against Real Bout1 Geese. who wins?

Kazenji
I'm going with Ken on this one unless i'm proven otherwise.

Sado22
why are you going with ken? we need reasons for the debate to actualy get somewhere big grin

4RX
oh..Real Bout 1...eh, SF3 Ken.

Man of Violence
Tie...

Ken and Geese don't have any solid feats that don't involve the actions of someone else.

I wish Ken would win...I'm gonna get a Ken sig.

Sado22
geese has feats. he has a heart blow with which he killed Jeff Bogard. and he beat him perfect. Jeff was considered the strongest fighter of Southtown when geese beat him down. and he beat him down perfect. goes to show what a badass he is.
other than that, he killed his clone with a single move (reppuken) while the said clone was giving terry, kyo and andy a hard time.
that siad the guy has awesome power, great reversals, air projectiles, regular projectiles, double projectiles and loads of other badass moves.

~Sado

Dark-Jaxx
Alot of what you said is irrelevant gameplay crap, but since Ken is a featless wonder and Geese is not, Geese.

EkinEku
Geese counters everything ken can think of then kills him

I-Drop
Nah. If Ken sees that he's being anticipated he'll do some old fancy shit & surprise him. It's what he does. What happened to Jeff shows how much of a badass Jeff ain't. If Geese was a toughguy he'd have done something other than lose in extremely embarrassing ways since then. (ran from ripoff & got fuked up by Terry so bad muthafukas thought he was dead. Now THAT'S an @sswhoopin') He hasn't. Ken dragon punches Geese off the tower & Geese falls to his death. Is this "clone" shit canon?

Even if Geese has the upper hand, his history says that whenever Geese gets the upperhand on somebody who looks & fights like Ken laughing out loud , he suddenly turns megastupid and asks them to "hit me w/your best shot". Ken would then Shinryuken his stupid @ss out of said tower. Geese WILL find a way to lose. It's what he does sad

Sado22
that shite only works on nameless hobbos. we aint discussing "what if" scenarios. otherwise i might as well say, "nah, geese will anticipate THAT too and toss him down all the same". see what i mean? that shite don't get us no where. and geese is more skilled and stronger than said hobbo.


once. and it was against some nameless, featless dude. it aint what he does cuz he's too busy beating up rookies and schoolgirls.


but ken beating down nameless chums shows how tough nameless chums were? even though he was oneshotting them with the shoryuken?

when the company says the man was the strongest fighter of south town it means he WAS the strongest fighter of southtown. no matter how much you try to downplay it, the fact that Jeff was the strongest fighter of south town holds. he was past his prime while geese was up and coming and hungry and "was strong as a demon". regardless of how vague this is, he still AT LEAST has a rep. its not a bad feat for jeff, its a great feat for geese. kinda like hugo and ryu, where hugo socking shinshoryuken (according to you) is a feat for him and not a bad one for ryu.

by comparison, hugo has no rep, no feats prior to that, wasn't considered the strongest of his city and wasn't so tough that other people respected him for it (Takuma respected Jeff as a great fighter etc.). double standards mane. not cool laughing out loud


cuz terry's punches were badass. he scarred him with his punches. that's power for you. you're gonna call sagat a pansy for getting hospitalized cuz of ONE scar now?hysterical
as for running away, he didn't run away. he was only momentarily dazed, and was so unimpressed he decided ryo wasn't even worth his time laughing out loud


you DO realize you're supporting a featless character over someone who has feats. i recall someone claiming that he only goes by feats laughing out loud


laughing out loud
or he'll pwn ken, but decide he wants to f--k him instead like sagat and ryu laughing


nah. ken does shoryuken and geese sidesteps, catches him and smacks on the ground hard. ken gets dizzy and tries some stupid shite again, and gets smacked on the ground hard again. ken KO. its what HE does. and i'm not even BSing cuz the dude that nearly beat down ken in the first USAMA tourny nearly beat did it with a throw hysterical. geese pwns ken and while ken lies there shitting himself cuz of a throw, geese jumps of the building while laughing to show ken how MANLY people die.

Geese beats Ken more experience, stronger, master of several martial arts, actually has a kill rate, has projectiles strong enough to kill people, fast, and has a oneshot sure killing technique etc. etc. etc. etc.

Geese wins 8/10

~Sado

Dark-Jaxx
I am pretty sure that post was mostly a joke...

Although to Sagat's credit, the scar he got went from his abs, went along his torso, and then knocked out his eye...Who wouldn't have to be hospitalized? no expression

Man of Violence
What feats does Geese have? Feats that he accomplished by himself wit no one around?

Kirikaze Fuuma
and what feats does Ken have?

Man of Violence
Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
and what feats does Ken have? I answered that question a few posts above. (my 1st post in this thread) That's why I said it was a tie, duh.

Do you even read my post?

Sado22
the scar cut went from abs to torso. the eye was ripped out years earlier by Goh Hibiki, dan' dad.

@MOW: geese's feats are killing his clone with a reppuken projectile. his most basic and weakest ki attack. other than he also oneshot killed Jeff with a heart blow. he also soaked ryokurenbu from Ryo which is the strongest attack of his (and geese was pretty young back then) and was only dazed slightly. still more than ken's i guess.

~Sado

I-Drop
Originally posted by Sado22
cuz terry's punches were badass. he scarred him with his punches. that's power for you. you're gonna call sagat a pansy for getting hospitalized cuz of ONE scar now?hysterical
as for running away, he didn't run away. he was only momentarily dazed, and was so unimpressed he decided ryo wasn't even worth his time laughing out loud Bullshit. Prove that's why he left. ripoff ain't worth anybody's time, that's no excuse for running off & not finishing him. Originally posted by Sado22
you DO realize you're supporting a featless character over someone who has feats. i recall someone claiming that he only goes by feats laughing out loud I don't need to downplay Geese's "feat". YOU just said he beat some old man who was past his prime. I'm not impressed & I'm not gonna let you have it both ways. Beating up an old guy who's past his prime is a "great" feat for Geese? laughing out loud I smell bias. What a surprise
Originally posted by Sado22
laughing out loud
or he'll pwn ken, but decide he wants to f--k him instead like sagat and ryu laughing More gay shit from you? You really seem to like talking about 2 dudes hooking up. Not cool or funny. Seriously, Sagat = sportsman who got cheapshotted(considered a hero). Geese = arrogant fool who fuked up & then ran from a ripoff. We went over this already. YOU agreed. Dead that shit. You arguing w/yourself now
Originally posted by Sado22
nah. ken does shoryuken and geese sidesteps, catches him and smacks on the ground hard. ken gets dizzy and tries some stupid shite again, and gets smacked on the ground hard again. ken KO. its what HE does.It's obviously not 'cuz the dude didn't KO him. The dude hurt Ken & then Ken knocked him the fuk out for his trouble. Think b4 you post. Geese has no feats unless you think beating the shit outta old guys past their prime(you said it. Makes him seem like a coward), running from ripoff(REALLY makes him seem like a coward) & getting your @ss beat so bad people think you got beat to death & then fighting the same damn guy a while later, getting your ass beat by him & then falling to your death. Ken beats his incompetent, old man fighting, ripoff fleeing, unholy @sswhoopin receiving, falling from towers @ss laughing out loud Quite a career Geese's had, bouncing around from game to game getting his @ss beat and/or making a fool of himself sad & it seems you still don't know what "one-shot" means. Video of Geese not one-shotting a guy that was past his prime & please post this some dude v. Ken fight again so I can see it. & while you're @it stop dodging my question about the clone shit. Was it canon? Source?

Dark-Jaxx
Originally posted by Sado22
the scar cut went from abs to torso. the eye was ripped out years earlier by Goh Hibiki, dan' dad. Oh yeah, forgot about that.

But still, the scar went from abs to torso and was like, really big, I would not be surprised if it shattered ribs...And likely caused severe blood loss.

Sado22
simple. think about it as hard and concentrate. you can do it.

-geese didn't have scars before the fight
-geese didn't fall outta the window which would be the only other possible explanation.
-geese was said to be beaten so badly people thought he was dead
-geese still has the scars now despite the retcon.
-they fought h2h without weapons
-terry dind't have bricks in his gloves or nails
-thus the scars were from terry's blows.
dah big grin


flashforward KoF2003, mukai lost but was unscathed. why do you suppose?


jeff was past his prime, don't mean he was a puppy foo. on top of that he was (pay attention) STILL considered the strongest fighter in south town. that's why its a great feat. it aint that hard to understand.


bigot!! mad
its a joke. if a gayjoke makes you question which way you swing its your fault, not mine laughing out loud


no i'm not. we've been through that before too.


cuz the dude was a nameless chum who hasn't done anything before or after. and ken did it out of desperation. think about what is being talked about.

you're saying that ken'd win against a guy whose a master of throws and actually has ki-based explosions that he can followup with........when ken barely won agianst a guy who tossed him to the ground hard. and said dude wasn't even someone excelling in throws like geese. he was karateka. stop being thick.
the only thick things that people is thick booty.

the clone was canon cuz it was from KoFKyo which is canon, and the manga was semicanon. thick of it as Udon which at the end of the day means that no matter what, the depiction of power were at least canon. fail.

~Sado

Kirikaze Fuuma
a true warrior won by cheapshot... interesting. shifty

P-Geyser
Originally posted by Sado22
jeff was past his prime, don't mean he was a puppy foo. on top of that he was (pay attention) STILL considered the strongest fighter in south town. that's why its a great feat. it aint that hard to understand.



Sado, you are beating a dead horse with this one. On this forum, Southtown is a place full of bums and hobo's and nothing special...go figure. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Sado22
the only dead horse here is SF itself roll eyes (sarcastic)

Dark-Jaxx
Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
a true warrior won by cheapshot... interesting. shifty He was possessed by the Satsui no Hadou. Which as can be demonstrated by Gouki, forces the user to spam cheatshots.

I-Drop
'Zactly. They do whatever it takes to win when SNH takes over.Originally posted by P-Geyser
Sado, you are beating a dead horse with this one. On this forum, Southtown is a place full of bums and hobo's and nothing special...go figure. roll eyes (sarcastic) As stated Southtown is a town of hyperbole. The "strongest" guy gets beat to death VERY easily(didn't look very strong), it's 1st family of MA claims to have the "strongest" style & they have 3 muthafukas on the team (including the Grandmaster sometimes) w/black belts in this "strongest" style & they can't even win a KOF ([email protected] can't even make it to the finals for buddah's sake). Not to mention they got a style chock full of "death" blows & ain't none of 'em ever "done K'd a B"! Not one of them has a single bodycount. They totally kill clothing though laughing out loud . What they say about the fighters of Southtown & what said fighters actually do are far from the same. They say cats are "strong as a demon". These same cats run from ripoff, get fuked up so bad people think they got beat to death, & then actually die from falling out a tower. This demon must be the demon that all the other demons in hell rape whenever they feel like it(that was for you Sado). He probably be washin' clothes & braidin' hair too. laughing out loud Some demon.

Sado, what parts of a semicanon tale are to be taken seriously?

Dark-Jaxx
Not to mention Terry wears a goofy hat.

Yeah.

I-Drop
That too. How can he be all that tuff when he wears goofy hats?

Dark-Jaxx
And wears incredibly tight jeans, showing he has oddly skinny legs, when compared to his bulky upper torso.

P-Geyser
laughing laughing laughing laughing ..........no.

Sado22
like throwing several hadoukens at a fallen opponent, yes?


the part where i said feats are depicted canonically and that the game itself WAS canon no expression

I-Drop
It happened in the game? Then wTF made you mention the manga?

Sado22
cuz there is a manga called KoFkyo too to avoid confusion.

P-Geyser
Originally posted by I-Drop
'Zactly. They do whatever it takes to win when SNH takes over. As stated Southtown is a town of hyperbole. The "strongest" guy gets beat to death VERY easily(didn't look very strong), it's 1st family of MA claims to have the "strongest" style & they have 3 muthafukas on the team (including the Grandmaster sometimes) w/black belts in this "strongest" style & they can't even win a KOF


Cause KOF is all about A$$anagi and his "hero" trio so they can't have the Sakazaki's win.


On another note. I find it replulsive how that when Sado mention's Ryu in A NEGATIVE WAY, there is a noose placed around his neck...or if it's in a thread that does not concern him, same sh!T. Though when you guys diss on Terry, there is plenty of yucks to go around and as I see now a forum thats got NOTHING to do with him.

Man of Violence
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Oh yeah, forgot about that.

But still, the scar went from abs to torso and was like, really big, I would not be surprised if it shattered ribs...And likely caused severe blood loss. Almost cut him in half, yo.
You see how the blood shoots from around his back and not just the front. Caused some real damage.

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters3/ryu-comicstuff2.jpg

Man of Violence
Originally posted by I-Drop
'Zactly. They do whatever it takes to win when SNH takes over. As stated Southtown is a town of hyperbole. The "strongest" guy gets beat to death VERY easily(didn't look very strong), it's 1st family of MA claims to have the "strongest" style & they have 3 muthafukas on the team (including the Grandmaster sometimes) w/black belts in this "strongest" style & they can't even win a KOF ([email protected] can't even make it to the finals for buddah's sake). Not to mention they got a style chock full of "death" blows & ain't none of 'em ever "done K'd a B"! Not one of them has a single bodycount. They totally kill clothing though laughing out loud . What they say about the fighters of Southtown & what said fighters actually do are far from the same. They say cats are "strong as a demon". These same cats run from ripoff, get fuked up so bad people think they got beat to death, & then actually die from falling out a tower. This demon must be the demon that all the other demons in hell rape whenever they feel like it(that was for you Sado). He probably be washin' clothes & braidin' hair too. laughing out loud Some demon.

Sado, what parts of a semicanon tale are to be taken seriously? laughing laughing out loud rolling on floor laughing

I-Drop
Originally posted by P-Geyser
Cause KOF is all about A$$anagi and his "hero" trio so they can't have the Sakazaki's win.


On another note. I find it replulsive how that when Sado mention's Ryu in A NEGATIVE WAY, there is a noose placed around his neck...or if it's in a thread that does not concern him, same sh!T. Though when you guys diss on Terry, there is plenty of yucks to go around and as I see now a forum thats got NOTHING to do with him. Well, if you're talking about this thread, Sado mentioned Terry foist. & even when Kyo's not winning ripoff suckassaki's team of "deadly" fighters still can't make it to the finals. They ain't shit.

Fvcking rain! Phils didn't win so I didn't get to riot & loot.

Sado22
MOW: going from the official representations that aint possible cuz Sagat's scar is only from his abs to his chest. not to his back. we can't use that.


ditto. no one has raged on and hated on a character more than I-drop raging and hating on Ryo. heck, he has been saying "ripoff" since i got here, and its been 2 years to that.
the only reason people lecture me on the ethics of gaming is because i'm raging on jesus christ in a karate gi laughing out loud

notice how NO ONE says anything about that. but me making fun of ryu on ryu's thread (which i helped in creating) and was actually an inside joke, has been something that I-drop's been using against me for sometime and later on others saw it and began regurgitating it at me laughing out loud

like i said, call me McMurphy from now on since i'm going agaisnt he "SF Combine". HOOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

~One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
P.S. brain, dead that whiny "sado did it" stuff wink

I-Drop
As soon as you "dead" doing it, Sado. big grin Was just pointing out that we didn't bring Terry up.

About ripoff: Nobody cares. You already said you didn't. PG didn't even mention him in his rant. ripoff Suckassaki ain't on the radar really. Why bit<h on his behalf? Only muthafukas people really seem to go to war on are Ryu & Terry. Everybody seems to get along when they ain't mentioned.

Darkstorm Zero
All it is is a difference of oppinion bitween two groups of debaters really...

Ryu and Terry would have a really good face off in an actual fight.

However, nobody here even considers what would theoretically happen and go on and on about feats that it becomes an endless cycle of featwars and circular logic. (Notice how I'm bowing out of debates much earlier these days? I do this to avoid circular debates, it's pointless regurgitating the same stuff over and over again if your oppoents don't see, or refuse to aknowlege anything you say and simply taunt you with flames , in-jokes and other stuff.)

Feat Wars ultimately solve nothing, and the spirit of the debate becomes lost amongst all the angst it causes, and the bodily fluids some people have for their favourite characters spills all over the threads...

Personally, I'd love to see half these fights made into animes, written properly and animated well, it's then that theories of HOW a fight goes down that wopuld determin the victor more than anything done in the past would show, for example, Terry beating geese for the upteen millionth time would not prove much against Ryu, simply because Ryu is a different person, simultaneously, ryu facing down Akuma would not be of much value against Terry, since Akuma and Terry are also different.

In theoretical debates such as these, feats may be important, but they fade into obscurity in the face of the moment... How would these men fight each other, based on their expereinces, teachings, training, and personal principals of fighting...

I only sided with Ryu (Barely) in the Ryu vs Terry debate simply based on the fact that Ryu's tutelage and upbringing have given him a more solid fighting background to use, as opposed to Terry's mostly self taught style. MA masters rely on the philosophies of their art to dictate their methodology in fighting, Terry lacks any sort of real philosophical background exept for the very early teachings from Jeff, while ryu's 10 years of training from Gouken was largely complete before Gouyken's (supposed) death, and Ryu's been using his masters teachings very solidly ever since, continuing to grow and master the arts on his own, always evolving and adapting to meed the needs of victory over his opponents, but always having that solid core background to go back to if and when the need arises.

This is certainly not to say that Terry is no match for Ryu, far from it, it could still go either way, Ryu's determination and warriors heart is every bit matched by Terry's fierce spirit and self taught capability, Where ryu had tutelage and guided training to focus his natural fighting ability, Terry's primary focus was vengence, he purred himself into fighting shape with the need to surpass Geese and defeat him, essentially he traveled a very dark and tragic road that severely toughened him up at a very dangerous fast pace, he invented most of the techniques he uses by hand. And when the time came, he was able to meet the challenge, he defeated Geese, a man that has haunted Terry since childhood. Overcoming such an adversary is no small feat.

This was ONLY mirrored in Ryu with the awakening of the Satsui No Hadou, and even though the Killing intent was no physical opponent like Geese was to Terry, it served every bit to force Ryu to make a choice, become a slave to murderous power, or continue to strive for something better...

The end result is that we have 2 fighters, brought into the fighters way by 2 very different roads, but both faced similar challenges, one is almost entirely self taught and has the spirit strong enough to face any opponent, vs one who has been trained by one of the best martial artists in the world, and has had the strength of will to resist the temptation of power to become more than his fist could tell you.

Thats my aview of the debated characters...

Sado22
as a humanbeing and an intellectual thinker i can't agree with the above statement. i am humanly repelled by it and every part of my fallible anatomy is repelled by such a false, insensitive and demeaning show of ignorance. Let me hereby declare that this is not about ryo being a ripoff or ryu having no feats and still being considered the best for absolutely no reason.
This is something else.
This is about right, justice, equality, humanity and gender emancipation. an asian man can't hate on another asian dude but black dude hating on white dude is acceptable? this is the kinda shite that has held down people all over the world, why little children die for no reason, why black people were turned into slaves and made to work a white man's farm in the name of god and humanity, why women can't go to work in several countries, why Saddam Hussain aint no different than George "Dubya" Bush and why Bin Ladin is doing what he's doing. putting your arm around an asian boy while a black-turned-white-pedophile sings "we are the world" aint the end of discrimination of social injustice or inequality. its stuff like this that gets good people killed, and women forced to undergo abortion, and men have their cocks cut off while they are forced to run in a swamp covered with landmines, and why women are wearing strapons and f0cking men in the ass. this is the reason why so many good people got killed and why Arabs blow themselves up to show that the islam is a religion of peace. this is why athiests are more conscerned with the existence of god than theists and why agnostics are more tolerant of others than religious people.
don't you see what's happening? everytime you say ryo's a ripoff god kills a little kitten to cover up for you sins. everytime i say ryu aint god, god brings armageddon even closer to our backs than ever.
don't you get it?!? i am destroying the world. who is to say, that if i say ryu's not god enough times, the world will stop spinning and the 4 trumpets of the day of judgement will blare so hard that we won't be able to hear what brittany spears and 50cent are saying. don't you see?! are you that blinded, you stray sheep? repent and we will be saved. or shall i offer my body as bread so we can feast together in the last supper. please, brother, don't forget my crown of thorns as i carry the crucifix of hate and anarchy and die for the sins of all fanboys so that people can finally play a game without turning it into psalms of destruction, seeds of hate.

this is how the world ends
this is how the world ends
this is how the world ends
not with a bang but a shinkuu hadouken

Sado22
@Darkstorm: nice post, man. reminds of the good old days where darko was always the man to rise to the occassion.

.......i take it all back, a$$hole no expression


that's a good point. but, suggesting that using the same fighting style without making any revolutionary changes to it is better than upgrading your style and mixing it up with several styles via practical training is a debatable suggestion. i know what you're saying but i'm saying its arguable. for the simple reason that a fighter who has always fought in karate may be at a disadvantage against someone who has learnt karate, boxing, kung fu and ground fighting. whether he may win is arguable.

terry's also more experienced, has had a tougher life and has fought more often. also, he while ryu was dojo dorking for the most part of it, terry got an "feild training" and experience which IMO surpasses what ryu did by the same logic that simulation flight is not better than actually flying a plane.


ditto. a little correction though: by the time terry actually faced geese he had outgrown a need for revenge and it was mainly just the need to fight a strong warrior.


ditto.

~Sado

I-Drop
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
All it is is a difference of oppinion bitween two groups of debaters really...

Ryu and Terry would have a really good face off in an actual fight.

However, nobody here even considers what would theoretically happen and go on and on about feats that it becomes an endless cycle of featwars and circular logic. (Notice how I'm bowing out of debates much earlier these days? I do this to avoid circular debates, it's pointless regurgitating the same stuff over and over again if your oppoents don't see, or refuse to aknowlege anything you say and simply taunt you with flames , in-jokes and other stuff.)

Feat Wars ultimately solve nothing, and the spirit of the debate becomes lost amongst all the angst it causes, and the bodily fluids some people have for their favourite characters spills all over the threads...

Personally, I'd love to see half these fights made into animes, written properly and animated well, it's then that theories of HOW a fight goes down that wopuld determin the victor more than anything done in the past would show, for example, Terry beating geese for the upteen millionth time would not prove much against Ryu, simply because Ryu is a different person, simultaneously, ryu facing down Akuma would not be of much value against Terry, since Akuma and Terry are also different.

In theoretical debates such as these, feats may be important, but they fade into obscurity in the face of the moment... How would these men fight each other, based on their expereinces, teachings, training, and personal principals of fighting...

I only sided with Ryu (Barely) in the Ryu vs Terry debate simply based on the fact that Ryu's tutelage and upbringing have given him a more solid fighting background to use, as opposed to Terry's mostly self taught style. MA masters rely on the philosophies of their art to dictate their methodology in fighting, Terry lacks any sort of real philosophical background exept for the very early teachings from Jeff, while ryu's 10 years of training from Gouken was largely complete before Gouyken's (supposed) death, and Ryu's been using his masters teachings very solidly ever since, continuing to grow and master the arts on his own, always evolving and adapting to meed the needs of victory over his opponents, but always having that solid core background to go back to if and when the need arises.

This is certainly not to say that Terry is no match for Ryu, far from it, it could still go either way, Ryu's determination and warriors heart is every bit matched by Terry's fierce spirit and self taught capability, Where ryu had tutelage and guided training to focus his natural fighting ability, Terry's primary focus was vengence, he purred himself into fighting shape with the need to surpass Geese and defeat him, essentially he traveled a very dark and tragic road that severely toughened him up at a very dangerous fast pace, he invented most of the techniques he uses by hand. And when the time came, he was able to meet the challenge, he defeated Geese, a man that has haunted Terry since childhood. Overcoming such an adversary is no small feat.

This was ONLY mirrored in Ryu with the awakening of the Satsui No Hadou, and even though the Killing intent was no physical opponent like Geese was to Terry, it served every bit to force Ryu to make a choice, become a slave to murderous power, or continue to strive for something better...

The end result is that we have 2 fighters, brought into the fighters way by 2 very different roads, but both faced similar challenges, one is almost entirely self taught and has the spirit strong enough to face any opponent, vs one who has been trained by one of the best martial artists in the world, and has had the strength of will to resist the temptation of power to become more than his fist could tell you.

Thats my aview of the debated characters... Damn. You had a lot on your mind, good post though. I think this would be an awesome anime battle. They should either use the guys who make the SF4 stuff or the KOF:AD stuff. Just don't put any fagcoon designs or Sakura in there

Sado22
i................i.............err..........................i agree eek!

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Sado22
@Darkstorm: nice post, man. reminds of the good old days where darko was always the man to rise to the occassion.

Well, I guess it was simply time for me to step back a little away from the debates and anylise what was happening to the boards... It really is only about peoples oppinions really... Thats why it's a debating forum..

Originally posted by Sado22
.......i take it all back, a$$hole no expression

crybaby

Originally posted by Sado22
that's a good point. but, suggesting that using the same fighting style without making any revolutionary changes to it is better than upgrading your style and mixing it up with several styles via practical training is a debatable suggestion. i know what you're saying but i'm saying its arguable. for the simple reason that a fighter who has always fought in karate may be at a disadvantage against someone who has learnt karate, boxing, kung fu and ground fighting. whether he may win is arguable.

What I mean by that is, Ryu is every bit as adaptable, his experience from combat across the globe means he knows how to utilise his fighting style against so many different types of combat forms... In a way, it means he's perfecting his fighting art down to a science, so if your asking me does that mean I think having one martial art is better than having many, then yes, IF you have trained well enough in that one to make it effective against whatever your opponent can throw at you.

Remember, Quality, not quantity. A good way to summarise the situation would be to draw a comparison, If your familiar with the Battle of Hu Lao Gate from the Romance of the 3 kingdoms novel, or the Dynasty warriors games, then you'll know who I'm talking about right away. Anyways, there was a warrior by the name of Lu Bu, who charged out of the Gate at an entire army alone, with nothing but his Halberd (The Lunar Spear), and his steed, Red hare. That night, he single handedly obliterated ofer 1,000 men alone, and was slaying officers of considerable power and experience. He was about to slay one of the leaders (Gongsun Zan) when Zhang Fei arrived to rescue him, Zhang Fei being one of the 3 brothers (And later counted amongst one of the 5 tiger generals of Shu) is a formidable warrior himself, but Lu bu was proving to be unstoppable, Guan Yu (Also one of the 3 brothers, honored as a God of War, and the leader of the 5 tiger generals) joined the fray to aid Zhang Fei. Still Lu Bu didn't faulter... and was continuing to puch the alliance back alone, it wasnt until Liu Bei the 3rd brother (And the future king of Shu. finally ade it to the battle ground and joined his brothers that Lu Bu was finally forced to withdraw.

The moral of tht description is that numbers don't matter, only your skills with those numbers.

And again, I stress, Terry is by no means unskilled, but his experience and adaption after adaption of the Hakkyokuseiken style may lead to his defeat at the hands of a more structured fighting style... sometimes overadapting a style can destroy it's usefulness, fighting isn't like running a computer. It needs to be balanced.

Originally posted by Sado22
terry's also more experienced, has had a tougher life and has fought more often. also, he while ryu was dojo dorking for the most part of it, terry got an "feild training" and experience which IMO surpasses what ryu did by the same logic that simulation flight is not better than actually flying a plane.

Ah, but as I said before, Ryu's so-called "Dojo Dorking" is actually training, ahve yopu ever heard the term Why are trained fighters more skilled and have better basics than those who are self taught?", I'll tell you, people who are untrained have no chance against those who have been trained properly, this is why most security guards are no match for professional soldiers in combat, soldiers have got better training.

Yes, Terry may have more in-fighting experience, but thenumber of styles South Town would have for him to test his might on (Short of the Upper Echelons perhaps) would be very limited in comparison to what Ryu fought round the globe anyways during the years after he finished training with Gouken... Everything Terry fought before facing Geese would have been centered around Southtown... There's only so much one city (No matter how violent/tough/criminally run) can offer a fighter in terms of versatility, in comparison to the entire planet....

Originally posted by Sado22
ditto. a little correction though: by the time terry actually faced geese he had outgrown a need for revenge and it was mainly just the need to fight a strong warrior.

A major driving factor in Terry's early develiopment (Post Jeff Death) was indeed vengence, but by the time he had grown enough to be able to enact on it, I suppose it morphed more into a sence of justice rather than vengence, but even so, yould you say that during that first fight, Terry idn't enjoy beating the living $h!t out of Geese before blasting him off the tower? I think he would... then hate himself for it later. laughing

Sado22
agreed. what i was saying is that its debatable which means holding either opinion is reasonable. terry has been incorporating other styles and is more variable and has had more "field training" but it doesn't gaurantee a win over ryu, the same way the fact that ryu's been training in one art doesn't gaurantee a win over terry. in the end all it boils down to is which warrior has more heart and will to fight. going by both their careers fighting spirit is what both Terry and ryu are all about that.


true. after all, as far as terry was conscerned he did "kill" geese. it was only later that he found out that Geese lived.

~Sado

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Sado22
agreed. what i was saying is that its debatable which means holding either opinion is reasonable. terry has been incorporating other styles and is more variable and has had more "field training" but it doesn't gaurantee a win over ryu, the same way the fact that ryu's been training in one art doesn't gaurantee a win over terry. in the end all it boils down to is which warrior has more heart and will to fight. going by both their careers fighting spirit is what both Terry and ryu are all about that.

Then we agree there stick out tongue I guess in the very truest sence it would boil down to luck, and a little bit of who wants it more on the day (Geeze that sounds wird when I say it... Double ententendre et al... sick ) Although the same could be said for just about anyone in Fighting games, including Kyo and Iori... Although poersonally, I think Ryu would lose one on one against Iori slightly, he'd do just as well against Kyo as he does against Terry... or Ryo for that matter.

Originally posted by Sado22
true. after all, as far as terry was conscerned he did "kill" geese. it was only later that he found out that Geese lived.

~Sado

2 agreements? wow, thats a first. Happy Dance

P-Geyser
Though many people have got it pegged that Ryu can sh!tstomp Terry anyday of the week and that's what pisses me off.

If you look at what I said way before, I said it could be a tie between these two. While Terry was self taught, he did have teachings from Jeff then after his death, Tung Fu Rue taught him. Then KOF was was invented to bring in all skilled fighters from around the globe so it's not like Terry was just fighting regulars in Southtown.

Other than that I can agree somewhat.

4RX
Then again it's only Ryu's lovers who say it. Others just acknowledge Ryu has better feats in general.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by P-Geyser
Though many people have got it pegged that Ryu can sh!tstomp Terry anyday of the week and that's what pisses me off.

If you look at what I said way before, I said it could be a tie between these two. While Terry was self taught, he did have teachings from Jeff then after his death, Tung Fu Rue taught him. Then KOF was was invented to bring in all skilled fighters from around the globe so it's not like Terry was just fighting regulars in Southtown.

Other than that I can agree somewhat.

Just remember what I told you a few weeks ago, Street Fighter, like King of Fighters is a very heavy upper echelon fighting game, it's everywhere, and the characters that are in it, will also be extremely popular with the general public, of course cour going to experience alit of Biased oppinions from people (Normally reguardless of what they may say to the contrary). It takes pushing Sh!t up hill to carying a boulder up a mountain.

But thats the challenge, if you burn yourself out getting angrier and angrier with other peoples oppinions, then this place becomes a sad lonely place, you only view it to see what happens next... and beleive me, thats not a fun way to experience KMC, or any debating forum for that matter...

The techings he got fro Tun Fu Rue where even more limited than what he got from Jeff... What, a few weeks?... Thats not even enough to get started... he may have gotten some of Tun's principals though, which is always a bonus.

P-Geyser
Your right about Tung it indeed was very limited in teachings as well as for Andy. As I said man I agree with most of what you said and believe me there are to many things going on in my life right now than to be worried about what goes on a forum.

Dark-Jaxx
DSZ, you seem to be under the impression that feats don't matter, when they do.

Okay, we get it, during his life Terry picked up alot of skill from his various fights, and from Jeff.

But what can he do with that skill?

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
DSZ, you seem to be under the impression that feats don't matter, when they do.

Okay, we get it, during his life Terry picked up alot of skill from his various fights, and from Jeff.

But what can he do with that skill?

I thought you might say that...

Feats are important, I don't deny that, but are they MORE important in the face of what the character does? are they more important than the debate itself? Of course not, Comparing feats is fine, but it's far from being the be-all-end-all of the debate. the moment a debate becomes a featwar, it loses everything that makes it a great debate. if you read my first post, you'll see my oppinion of a purely featwar debate.

Sado22
yup. Iori and Ryu ends in ryu's defeat. that i'm very certain about.
Kyo and ryu would be a solid good fight (provided Kyo doesn't get bloodlusted).
Ryo and ryu would also be a great fight, and just cuz they were made by the same guy and ryu came first doesn't mean ryo's a loser. i don't even known what being a "ripoff" has anything to do with fighting ability confused


laughing


power feat:
-his blows were so powerful they etched scars all over Geese's body in Fatal Fury1. it wasn't just wounds but scars, and the beating was so bad people thought geese died.
-he breaks the ground around his fist and creates craters when he does the power wave and power geyser (we see it clearly in FFDM intro)

speed feat:
-is actually famos for his "dizzying speed" (FF fliers)
-blurring out of vision with some moves (buster wolf, shining knuckle)

skill feat:
-taking out entire platoon of heavily armed troops in KoF2000 without breaking a sweat and actually enjoying himself (also a speed feat).

endurance feat:
-socking a blow that smacked him 20ft back (and would've been more) from Ryo, crashes into a steel pole that bends out of shape entirely, only to grin and shrug it off. it just made him get serious.
-socking and evenenly trading blows with a metahuman (grant)
-getting smacked through walls and all over the place by Krauser (FFRBS intro) and just getting serious.

as far as i'm concerned, these feats place Terry above Ryu but thats IMO. at the very least, we are shown that its everything but a shitestomp and that Terry DOES have feats, regardless of how much his detractors say otherwise.

~Sado

NonSensi-Klown
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Feats are important, I don't deny that, but are they MORE important in the face of what the character does?

Considering a feat is an achievement, what someone does is, in fact, a feat.

no expression

Dark-Jaxx
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I thought you might say that...

Feats are important, I don't deny that, but are they MORE important in the face of what the character does? are they more important than the debate itself? Of course not, Comparing feats is fine, but it's far from being the be-all-end-all of the debate. the moment a debate becomes a featwar, it loses everything that makes it a great debate. if you read my first post, you'll see my oppinion of a purely featwar debate. Feats ARE what the character does DSZ. What do you suggest we take into account in debates if not feats DSZ?

Sado22
lets not get into a discussion on feats and get back to the fact that i have pointed out "feats" big grin

Kirikaze Fuuma
finally a peaceful moment in game versus forum thread...

Man of Violence
Originally posted by Sado22
MOW: going from the official representations that aint possible cuz Sagat's scar is only from his abs to his chest. not to his back. we can't use that.
The scar could have completely healed all around except in that area cuz it's the same in my knee injury. I shattered my knee cap in foot ball and I had an 8 inch staple job that turned into a 3inch scar. That's a perfect representation of what happened. UDON has officially stated that "the SF and DS back stories are just retellings of stories that already happened but were never seen". (Paraphrase)Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I thought you might say that...

Feats are important, I don't deny that, but are they MORE important in the face of what the character does? are they more important than the debate itself? Of course not, Comparing feats is fine, but it's far from being the be-all-end-all of the debate. the moment a debate becomes a featwar, it loses everything that makes it a great debate. if you read my first post, you'll see my oppinion of a purely featwar debate. Feats are the most important part of a debate, they show what the character is capable of.

Wit out a stranght feat how will we know how strong a character is?

Wit out a speed feat how will we know how fast a character is?

Wit out an endurance feat how will we know how much the character can endure?

If a characters has many feats and the person he is fightin has none, there is no chance of "a great debate". You need feats, if not those at least special powers. A fighting debate wit fictional characters is a "featwar".

Kirikaze Fuuma
your story about Sagat almost cut in half is completely wrong.

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u130/kensaburo/250px-SFASagat.jpg

which one is "almost cut in half"? erm

Man of Violence
Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
your story about Sagat almost cut in half is completely wrong.

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u130/kensaburo/250px-SFASagat.jpg

which one is "almost cut in half"? erm No it's not. I have proven already that it's not. Do you read the post or just reply and say what you want to hear. You need to stop.

Sado22
scars usually form in the aream that is the most heavily damaged. i have a couple of scars of my own and have had a sionus operation as well. the part that takes the brunt of the cut/trauma etc and the one that is most damaged is the one that forms the scar. why i said, we cant use that is because Sagat's shoulder is clearly torn off with the attack. ts like he was hacked with an axe, only upwards instead of downwars. the human body can't heal such a badcase of severtion without the formation of scar tissue. which is why i'm saying we can't use it. for one the event itself is depicted wrong because Sagat had ryu badly beaten, ryu didn't have a red bandana, and ryu did the shoryuken when Sagat was actually trying to help him up.
even if not, the EVENT is depicted right, but what goes on in the fight is not. see what i mean?

Darkstorm Zero
Featwars only look at single spects of a character is all, people get so caught up in a single feat that it detracts from the rest of the debate.

For example, Akuma's island busting, yes, a super-huge strength feat though it is, does that win him almost every debate he is involved in here? I dare say it is...

And that detracts from his other skills and abilities, not to mention that said feats can be misleading, for example, The three Treasures taking down Orochi.

Now, my beef here is that, while Orochi is immortal and massively strong, he has no confirmed feats of his own... Yet we reguard him as a highly vaunted opponent... The very fact that the 3 owned him in the end is used as a feat, but we never know how they did it, this is all in contrast to what we know about their skills and powers anyway...

Featwars.... = illogical and circular nonsense... But feats + character information + skill information = good stuff.

Man of Violence
Originally posted by Sado22
scars usually form in the aream that is the most heavily damaged. i have a couple of scars of my own and have had a sionus operation as well. the part that takes the brunt of the cut/trauma etc and the one that is most damaged is the one that forms the scar. why i said, we cant use that is because Sagat's shoulder is clearly torn off with the attack. ts like he was hacked with an axe, only upwards instead of downwars. the human body can't heal such a badcase of severtion without the formation of scar tissue. which is why i'm saying we can't use it. for one the event itself is depicted wrong because Sagat had ryu badly beaten, ryu didn't have a red bandana, and ryu did the shoryuken when Sagat was actually trying to help him up.
even if not, the EVENT is depicted right, but what goes on in the fight is not. see what i mean?

1. Sagat is a fictional character, he doesn't have to heal like regular humans.

2. If you read the whole story you will see ryu get his ass beat.

3. The red bandana is a mistake on UDON's part, kinda like how in the Sagat VS Adon story Sagat had like 6 toes.

Man of Violence
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Featwars only look at single spects of a character is all, people get so caught up in a single feat that it detracts from the rest of the debate. That's why peeps wit alot of GOOD feats usually win.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
For example, Akuma's island busting, yes, a super-huge strength feat though it is, does that win him almost every debate he is involved in here? I dare say it is...Well, it wins him er debate wit an opponent who lacks a simmilar or better feat in terms of strikin' power.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
And that detracts from his other skills and abilities, not to mention that said feats can be misleading, for example, The three Treasures taking down Orochi...Seein' as how Orochi has no feats and the 3 Treasures have no really good feats that proves that the 3 Treasures are better than Orochi cuz they fought at simillar lvls and the 3 Treasures won.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Now, my beef here is that, while Orochi is immortal and massively strong, he has no confirmed feats of his own... Yet we reguard him as a highly vaunted opponent... The very fact that the 3 owned him in the end is used as a feat, but we never know how they did it, this is all in contrast to what we know about their skills and powers anyway...

Featwars.... = illogical and circular nonsense... But feats + character information + skill information = good stuff.
The thing is we don't "reguard him as a highly vaunted opponent". Only some of you. He aint to me cuz he hasn't proven it and he has no feats or any real special powers that are powerful enough to help him. You have to see things this way cuz the logic that works for 1 game aint gonna work on another from a completly different company and franchise. For example, SF hardly ever jobs and their characters are prone to have more feats and KOF jobs all the time. Is it fair to pit an instance of jobbin' against actual feats? No.

"Featwars".... = logical and sencible debates. But feats + character information + skill information = even better. But...

Feats>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>character information + skill information, That's the point I'm makin'

Sado22
you do realize that same can be said about your analogy to the 3inch scar to your kneecap right? laughing out loud


i have. Sagat had the upperhand but ryu wasn't beat. canonically, ryu was beat so badly he was on his knees and about to pass out till he went nuts and did the metsushoryuken to Sagat...who was trying to help him up.


keyword is mistake laughing out loud

Man of Violence
Originally posted by Sado22
you do realize that same can be said about your analogy to the 3inch scar to your kneecap right? laughing out loud Yes, I realize that now...


Originally posted by Sado22
i have. Sagat had the upperhand but ryu wasn't beat. canonically, ryu was beat so badly he was on his knees and about to pass out till he went nuts and did the metsushoryuken to Sagat...who was trying to help him up. I have never heard that part of the story in such detail.


Originally posted by Sado22
keyword is mistake laughing out loud And what's wrong wit that? Erbody makes mistakes.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Man of Violence
That's why peeps wit alot of GOOD feats usually win.

Really, then why does Orochi win like 95% of the debates he's been in?

Originally posted by Man of Violence
Well, it wins him er debate wit an opponent who lacks a simmilar or better feat in terms of strikin' power.

Which shows why Feats alone don't work, A stronger person doesn't always win the fight.

Originally posted by Man of Violence
Seein' as how Orochi has no feats and the 3 Treasures have no really good feats that proves that the 3 Treasures are better than Orochi cuz they fought at simillar lvls and the 3 Treasures won.

And I say thats BULL-$h!t, for the same reson Sado calls the same on M.Bisons series of losses from Alpha 3, Orochi is immortal, unhurtable, anf damn near omnipotent (Supposed to be). Iff we go purely by feats, then Orochi should have handed the planet it's own @$$ on a platter. That certainly didn't happen.

Originally posted by Man of Violence
The thing is we don't "reguard him as a highly vaunted opponent". Only some of you. He aint to me cuz he hasn't proven it and he has no feats or any real special powers that are powerful enough to help him. You have to see things this way cuz the logic that works for 1 game aint gonna work on another from a completly different company and franchise. For example, SF hardly ever jobs and their characters are prone to have more feats and KOF jobs all the time. Is it fair to pit an instance of jobbin' against actual feats? No.

"Featwars".... = logical and sencible debates. But feats + character information + skill information = even better. But...

Feats>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>character information + skill information, That's the point I'm makin'

Ok, then lets use Capcom logic here, Without relying on any outside media, I want you to name one solid fight feat Pyron has done from the games only, Name me one decent feat from the games only that Orochi or any of his bloodline members couldn't match.

You can't, because they don't exist. Pyron's only skill was getting devoured by Demitri, and thats it.

I'm a fan of Capcom's fighters as mucj (If not more) than SNK's, but I use more than simple featwars to settle debates, it is, as they say, the skool of old.

Dark-Jaxx
Good feats from Pyron in the game?

Turning the planet into a ring that orbits his finger.

When reverting to mortal form, destroying an entire civilization of Darkstalkers when landing in the Atlantic.

Releasing his energies and separating Bishamon from his sword and armor.

Speaking to the entire dimension of Makai, and luring them to Earth so he could battle them.

As seen in the third ending, he can devour/destroy Makai.

While mortal, even though he lost, he was able to give Demitri, who was currently the most powerful Darkstalker alive, a good fight, by Demitri's own words in the canon ending Pyron was a worthy opponent.

Eating planets(dur).

So yeah, even using just games, Pyron has great feats, and as you know, OVA and UDON show canonical powers.

Feats are important, now sure, Gouki's punching power won't grant him every win, but it is an advantage he has over many an opponent, and if his other attributes such as skill, speed, durability, power, and whatnot are sufficient, he should win. Feats are the definitive and most important factor in deciding a debate.

And since Orochi is as you basically said a featless wonder whose only feat is getting beaten by three dudes, who are also featless wonders(except Kyo who has a few decent feats), yeah, I don't know why he wins so many threads. Oh wait yeah I do, character cock-stroking.

I-Drop
Originally posted by Sado22
yup. Iori and Ryu ends in ryu's defeat. that i'm very certain about.
Kyo and ryu would be a solid good fight (provided Kyo doesn't get bloodlusted).
Ryo and ryu would also be a great fight, and just cuz they were made by the same guyStop. That's an assumption & we ALL know it. We've never seen anybody claim to have created both characters. I would imagine that creating both characters would have come up in print somewhere if that had been the case. I also imagine Dan would not have been created as a spoof on the AOF guys either. They way ripoff got "treated" in the Capcom games & in the comics that went w/'em shows how much respect they don't seem to have for his design also(Ryu one shots him & calls him a "thief" & says he's "embarrassing the style"wink. If you can't say 100% beyond the shadow of a doubt that they were in fact created by the same cat(s), then it's best that we not say it @all. Somebody who doesn't know any better could be reading this & assume you're telling the truth. The truth is that we've never seen ANYthing that said they came from the same guy. ALL we've seen is that a couple of guys worked on both games. The rest is ALL assumption, probably cooked up by ripoff's fans so they can sleep @night Originally posted by Sado22
and ryu came first doesn't mean ryo's a loser. i don't even known what being a "ripoff" has anything to do with fighting ability confused It doesn't. I even gave ripoff the W over Paul. Even though Paul's waaaaaay cooler. Nice to see you finally calling ripoff by his real name big grin

Sado22
we've been through this enough times bub. it all comes down to the fact that the gameplanners of the game ARE the ones telling the designers what to design. the IDEA is their's. we've even sent you links to this fact and given you a detailed explanation of the whole process laughing out loud
and heck, who in the world can be proud of making the most redundant, overly boring, overrated person on the planet next to wolverine stick out tongue


i've read that noncanon steaming pile of garbage that has ryu look and dress like a chinese dude with wavy middle part hair. that boyband street fighter bull was lame sick
as for Dan, they created him AFTER losing the case, as i've already explained.


the DESIGNER for both are the same people. 100% sure.


laughing

I-Drop
Originally posted by Sado22
we've been through this enough times bub. it all comes down to the fact that the gameplanners of the game ARE the ones telling the designers what to design. the IDEA is their's. we've even sent you links to this fact and given you a detailed explanation of the whole process laughing out loud
and heck, who in the world can be proud of making the most redundant, overly boring, overrated person on the planet next to wolverine stick out tongue Who wouldn't be proud of making THE icon of fighting games? Ya'll sent me stuff that never proved anything. When I asked Kriz if he'd proven it, he couldn't give me a simple "yes"
Originally posted by Sado22
i've read that noncanon steaming pile of garbage that has ryu look and dress like a chinese dude with wavy middle part hair. that boyband street fighter bull was lame sick
as for Dan, they created him AFTER losing the case, as i've already explained.& you never showed ANY proof of that. I showed a few sites where they said Dan was created INSTEAD of suing. There never was a case IIRC. They sued Data East.

The thing I saw had Ryu looking as he normaly does. Will look for it 2morrow.
Originally posted by Sado22
the DESIGNER for both are the same people. 100% sure. I saw the credits when Kriz posted 'em. It was a bunch of designers

Sado22
ditto.


we weren't counting on you being a retard big grin
seriously, i've sent you pics and links where it gives the names of both the game designers, who are people who tell the character designer what to draw. that's why the Kentaro Miura is credited with being the maker of Guts and not the guy who draws him for the manga. dah laughing out loud

~Sado

I-Drop
You do realize that people can design & "make" the characters also. Didn't Fagcoon draw & make @ss Crimson, Alba & varoius other [email protected] designs? I'm not into making assumptions as much as you are. Truth is we don't know who created what. They could have just approved the designs that the designers made. @least Kriz was smart enough to know no concrete shit had been brought to the table. Until I see something saying "so & so created Ryu & ripoff", you can go fvck yourself j/k laughing out loud Seriously though, you got anything saying that Capcom tried to sue SNK or is this more anti Capcom bullshit from you?

P.S. Ryu's career could revolve around taking shits in the forrest, he'd still be more of an icon than that guy in the hat or the ripoff who looks like Ken will ever be big grin

NonSensi-Klown
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
However, nobody here even considers what would theoretically happen and go on and on about feats that it becomes an endless cycle of featwars and circular logic.


When you start getting hypothetical shit gets stupid and exaggerated, hence the point of feats. Feats can't be debated, because they happened.

Hypothetically speaking, Ryu wins because he can shoot a hadouken into the atmosphere, setting it on fire and killing everyone.

erm

Darkstorm Zero
@Jaxx: Ok, A): I wasn't talking to you, and B): all of that is either from another source, unconfirmed, or from an ending.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Turning the planet into a ring that orbits his finger.

Ending which never happened. Not an IN-GAME feat either

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
When reverting to mortal form, destroying an entire civilization of Darkstalkers when landing in the Atlantic.

Never seen this in-game, source? And remember, anything not from within the game is not what I'm asking for

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Releasing his energies and separating Bishamon from his sword and armor.

Never seen this one either, source? see above.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Speaking to the entire dimension of Makai, and luring them to Earth so he could battle them.

Not seen ingame either, source? see above. And also, even if I let this in, what good would it do?

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
As seen in the third ending, he can devour/destroy Makai.

Ending feat thats also non-canon...

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
While mortal, even though he lost, he was able to give Demitri, who was currently the most powerful Darkstalker alive, a good fight, by Demitri's own words in the canon ending Pyron was a worthy opponent.

Source? Although it's canon, it's still an ending, and also, whern't you the one who said defeating opponents isn't a feat?

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Eating planets(dur).

Not seen in-game, doesn't qualify to my question.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
So yeah, even using just games, Pyron has great feats, and as you know, OVA and UDON show canonical powers.

I know that, but I am asking a question, about 95% of feats used arn't even generated within the game itself, but by other media seen with the characters is the point I'm making.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Feats are important, now sure, Gouki's punching power won't grant him every win, but it is an advantage he has over many an opponent, and if his other attributes such as skill, speed, durability, power, and whatnot are sufficient, he should win. Feats are the definitive and most important factor in deciding a debate.

I disagree, feats only serve us a single side to a debate, wtf happened to the rest? it gets tossed aside simply because people like to compare feats? yeah, then they begin to tear up the validity of eachother's feats and the whole thing degenerates to mindless flames... That is what I seek to avoid with this thread, and many others.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
And since Orochi is as you basically said a featless wonder whose only feat is getting beaten by three dudes, who are also featless wonders(except Kyo who has a few decent feats), yeah, I don't know why he wins so many threads. Oh wait yeah I do, character cock-stroking.

No Jaxx... It's because of background story/history and character lore, which both sides of the Capcom/SNK war have been using since debates where formed. You see what I mean now? Feats can only tell us so much. What happens when your faced with a vague character? "Oh he must be a weak @$$ed biach because he's got no feats", which, of course is utter nonsense.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
When you start getting hypothetical shit gets stupid and exaggerated, hence the point of feats. Feats can't be debated, because they happened.

Hypothetically speaking, Ryu wins because he can shoot a hadouken into the atmosphere, setting it on fire and killing everyone.

erm

Blax, you know better than that, the entire point of these debates is to see who would theoretically win anyways...

Err, Ryu's Hadouken Dopes not equal thermonuclear radiation= nor does it burn hot enough to light up the atmosphere..., AND, we don't know the Hadouken's maximum effective range...

Nice try though.

NonSensi-Klown
We don't know it's range, nor it's maximum power.

It's theoretically possible though.

Sado22
cuz he is the artist for the designer. are you proving my point or arguing it? confused


did you just say the f word to me?! sad
*goes I-emo, reports thread and says "watch yourself mane"*
laughing out loud


the guy in the hat who got further in the videogame hero matchup than any fighting game hero (including "hogan"wink? and has fanspaces and fanlists dedictated to him for several years and won in a landslide poll against superheroes and was runner up to Hogan in SFland a.k.a fightersgeneration.com when the poll asked who the greatest hero was?

not by a longshot bub. even haters, respect terry enough. like you do.

~Sado

Kazenji
I'm with I-Drop on that last quote, Ryu will always be more of a bigger icon then Terry especially when it comes to the wider public mainly because its Street Fighter and two its Capcom, Don't get me wrong SNK is good with their King Of Fighters games but compared to the wider public King Of Fighters is like a pebble compared to Street Fighter.

Sado22
you're right. but only in US and places where fighting games arent' the shite anymore

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
We don't know it's range, nor it's maximum power.

It's theoretically possible though.

Theoretical within reason, If it's range where that high, then the SFer universes earth would be nothing but a potmarked hellhole due to all the missed ki blasts...

It's not theoretically possible, given the information we have, the Shankunetsu Hadouken burns, but doesn't immolate like Gouki's does, and even if it did, it wouldn't burn hot enough to light up an atmosphere... you'd need thousands of digrees of heat over a massive area (Like a HUGE atomic blast) to even begin that proccess.

Dark-Jaxx
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
@Jaxx: Ok, A): I wasn't talking to you, and B): all of that is either from another source, unconfirmed, or from an ending.



Ending which never happened. Not an IN-GAME feat either



Never seen this in-game, source? And remember, anything not from within the game is not what I'm asking for



Never seen this one either, source? see above.



Not seen ingame either, source? see above. And also, even if I let this in, what good would it do?



Ending feat thats also non-canon...



Source? Although it's canon, it's still an ending, and also, whern't you the one who said defeating opponents isn't a feat?



Not seen in-game, doesn't qualify to my question.



I know that, but I am asking a question, about 95% of feats used arn't even generated within the game itself, but by other media seen with the characters is the point I'm making.



I disagree, feats only serve us a single side to a debate, wtf happened to the rest? it gets tossed aside simply because people like to compare feats? yeah, then they begin to tear up the validity of eachother's feats and the whole thing degenerates to mindless flames... That is what I seek to avoid with this thread, and many others.



No Jaxx... It's because of background story/history and character lore, which both sides of the Capcom/SNK war have been using since debates where formed. You see what I mean now? Feats can only tell us so much. What happens when your faced with a vague character? "Oh he must be a weak @$$ed biach because he's got no feats", which, of course is utter nonsense. Then what do you want me to friggin do? Show you a cutscene of Pyron doing something? Cutscenes were not in friggin Darkstalkers games dude. You are just asking a bullshit question to prove a bullshit point. That speculation, which is opinion-based, is more important than the character's feats, which is based on fact. And all are feats from the game's canon. Noncanon endings show canon abilities except when the character gets a powerup in his ending. Pyron never received one. And it is in the game, wtf are you asking for? Gameplay feats?

Kirikaze Fuuma
non-canon ending doesn't show canon abilities. for example, aside of tank a nuke, Bison was killed by Ken's shoryuken, Dan's hishou burai ken, E-Honda's headbutt, list goes on. these are the examples of non-canon abilities. I think the same goes to Pyron.

Darkstorm Zero
So, your telling me that because I asked a question to demonstrate that even though feats are important, they are not the be-all-end-all of debates makes my point bullshit?

Thats it mister, I'm cutting your porn and cheeto allowance for a week!

And I never said speculation, in fact, point out where I even said the word speculation in this thread please.

Gameplay feats are not a half bad play, and neither is confirmed sources.

But endings that don't happen are as valid as speculation in alot of ways, you've debated this when reffering to Jinpachi havn't you?

NonSensi-Klown
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Theoretical within reason, If it's range where that high, then the SFer universes earth would be nothing but a potmarked hellhole due to all the missed ki blasts...

Unless they all know that they have the potential to do so, so never use all-out ki blasts. 131

I-Drop
Originally posted by Sado22
cuz he is the artist for the designer. are you proving my point or arguing it? confused He's both ain't he? Isn't Ash a 100%
Fagcoon creation? Those screenshots Kriz put up had certain guys names on them. He left out the screen w/the peeps listed under character design. I saw it. It was a whole team. Any of them could have created the characters in question. We don't know enough yet to do anything but make assumptions. I'm not gonna do that.
Originally posted by Sado22
did you just say the f word to me?! sad
*goes I-emo, reports thread and says "watch yourself mane"*
laughing out loud laughing out loud If I cut both your hands off you'd still have enough fingers to count how many times I've reported a thread.
Originally posted by Sado22
the guy in the hat who got further in the videogame hero matchup than any fighting game hero (including "hogan"wink? and has fanspaces and fanlists dedictated to him for several years and won in a landslide poll against superheroes and was runner up to Hogan in SFland a.k.a fightersgeneration.com when the poll asked who the greatest hero was?Don't know (or care) about most of the stuff you mentioned. Frankie likes the guy in the hat more'n anybody else. The poll was done & Ryu came in 1st. Terry was in second? Awesome. no expression 'Round here, "2nd place" means the same as "the first loser". This is the city of champions! Happy Dance Fuk 2nd place! Ricky Bobby's dad told me that "if you ain't 1st, you're last!!!"

P.S. If I didn't know any better I'd say you're flat out dodging my shit about the lawsuit. But I know your not that type of person. smile

Dark-Jaxx
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
So, your telling me that because I asked a question to demonstrate that even though feats are important, they are not the be-all-end-all of debates makes my point bullshit?

Thats it mister, I'm cutting your porn and cheeto allowance for a week!

And I never said speculation, in fact, point out where I even said the word speculation in this thread please.

Gameplay feats are not a half bad play, and neither is confirmed sources.

But endings that don't happen are as valid as speculation in alot of ways, you've debated this when reffering to Jinpachi havn't you? 1. Feats are the single most important aspect in a debate, they are not theoretical, are not opinion based most of the time, and are based on facts.

2. Cheetos suck.

3. Okay. Let me rephrase this. We should not go by what is "theoretically" possible. Theoretically, Pyron, being essentially a living sun, should be able to make himself supernova to insta-win a fight.

4. Gameplay is not a good judge of abilities often, certain things in gameplay can be used, but those come after actual feats in the canon.

5. No, I have not. I debated that Jinpachi shouldn't get all the wank and praise because of some vague quote from a fallible character stating he can destroy the world.

Dark-Jaxx
Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
non-canon ending doesn't show canon abilities. for example, aside of tank a nuke, Bison was killed by Ken's shoryuken, Dan's hishou burai ken, E-Honda's headbutt, list goes on. these are the examples of non-canon abilities. I think the same goes to Pyron. Bison in like all other endings I can think of was actually killed by his Drives self-destructing.

And their is nothing to contradict Pyron's endings.

Kirikaze Fuuma
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Bison in like all other endings I can think of was actually killed by his Drives self-destructing.

And their is nothing to contradict Pyron's endings.

I just want to give you an example of non-canon ending doesn't show canon abilities. and I don't want to talk about Bison too much here since we are not talking about Bison's endings.

Kazenji
Originally posted by Sado22
you're right. but only in US and places where fighting games arent' the shite anymore

Capcom's fighting games and SNK's ones are'nt that big here in Australia i think its all about Namco.

Sado22
its what game planners/directors do. which is what i've been telling you.


can there ever be a doubt? big grin


notice also that the ways things worked 10 years ago is different from today. back in the day, for something as plain and simple like SF1, the game wasn't that big and so one person could do several things. now adays since there is so much tecnique involved and so many things to take care of, the work is specialized.

here is one dude explaining it:


I'm still looking for the definite source.

Man of Violence
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Really, then why does Orochi win like 95% of the debates he's been in? Beats me. Maybe cuz there are alot of fanbois around these parts

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Which shows why Feats alone don't work, A stronger person doesn't always win the fight.But if the guy has A good feat that shows his strength is superhuman and the other guy has NO FEATS AT ALL. Then the guy wit the one feat will win cuz they're both are perceived equally wit one guy havin' a HUGE lead in power.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
And I say thats BULL-$h!t, for the same reson Sado calls the same on M.Bisons series of losses from Alpha 3, Orochi is immortal, unhurtable, anf damn near omnipotent (Supposed to be). Iff we go purely by feats, then Orochi should have handed the planet it's own @$$ on a platter. That certainly didn't happen.It did not happen cuz Orochi can't. He is stated in so many words to be able to end life on earth over a period of time but he can't DBZ a planet, yo. He has no feats and was defeated by 3 people wit no feats (Kyo has some "Okay" ones). To say that some how he is stronger than erbody seems like total Bull Shit. There is no evidence. You can try yur hardest to make some which the fanbois do, but if it aint there...it just aint there, man. Now O'course Orochi wont lose to Ryu cuz he can end life on earth over a period of time and Ryu's feats aint THAT X'treme but when goin' up against Akuma or even some of the the other SNK bosses...he wont win.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Ok, then lets use Capcom logic here, Without relying on any outside media, I want you to name one solid fight feat Pyron has done from the games only, Name me one decent feat from the games only that Orochi or any of his bloodline members couldn't match.

1.He is hundreds of times bigger than Earth

2.He eats stars

3.And he's made from energy

And Jaxx named alot of thers. You say that's not what you want to hear but it's from the game and it is all said to be canon. I get yur point but CAPCOM, THE CREATORS OF PYRON, said he can do it.

No one in KOF or even Capcom can top that.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
You can't, because they don't exist. Pyron's only skill was getting devoured by Demitri, and thats it. I just did and there are more AND Capcom and UDON have said that the abilities in the comics and in the Alpha movie are all canon (paraphrase). I have never heard such a thing from SNK, dude.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I'm a fan of Capcom's fighters as mucj (If not more) than SNK's, but I use more than simple featwars to settle debates, it is, as they say, the skool of old. Well dude, you got yur opinion and that's fine. You should avoid debatin' me cuz I will not except yur logic and it's clear you wont except mine. We may agree on alot of things but it will always be for different reasons.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Man of Violence
Beats me. Maybe cuz there are alot of fanbois around these parts

But if the guy has A good feat that shows his strength is superhuman and the other guy has NO FEATS AT ALL. Then the guy wit the one feat will win cuz they're both are perceived equally wit one guy havin' a HUGE lead in power.

It did not happen cuz Orochi can't. He is stated in so many words to be able to end life on earth over a period of time but he can't DBZ a planet, yo. He has no feats and was defeated by 3 people wit no feats (Kyo has some "Okay" ones). To say that some how he is stronger than erbody seems like total Bull Shit. There is no evidence. You can try yur hardest to make some which the fanbois do, but if it aint there...it just aint there, man. Now O'course Orochi wont lose to Ryu cuz he can end life on earth over a period of time and Ryu's feats aint THAT X'treme but when goin' up against Akuma or even some of the the other SNK bosses...he wont win.



1.He is hundreds of times bigger than Earth

2.He eats stars

3.And he's made from energy

And Jaxx named alot of thers. You say that's not what you want to hear but it's from the game and it is all said to be canon. I get yur point but CAPCOM, THE CREATORS OF PYRON, said he can do it.

No one in KOF or even Capcom can top that.

I just did and there are more AND Capcom and UDON have said that the abilities in the comics and in the Alpha movie are all canon (paraphrase). I have never heard such a thing from SNK, dude.

Well dude, you got yur opinion and that's fine. You should avoid debatin' me cuz I will not except yur logic and it's clear you wont except mine. We may agree on alot of things but it will always be for different reasons.

*Sigh* Dones NOBODY read what I friggin say anymore? You and Jaxx BOTH missed what I said by leagues... Nowhere was I debating the canon validity of Udon or the Anime's... ALL I asked was that you show me IN-GAME feats that don't rely on outside media... No endings, no comics no movies... Just the friggin raw of the game, and NEITHER of you showed me this...

THIS is why Featwars arn't as high and mighty as some people like to think they are... NOBODY here seems to have any in-game knowlege whatsoever...

Man of Violence
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
*Sigh* Dones NOBODY read what I friggin say anymore? You and Jaxx BOTH missed what I said by leagues... Nowhere was I debating the canon validity of Udon or the Anime's... ALL I asked was that you show me IN-GAME feats that don't rely on outside media... No endings, no comics no movies... Just the friggin raw of the game, and NEITHER of you showed me this... Few actually have that...

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
THIS is why Featwars arn't as high and mighty as some people like to think they are... NOBODY here seems to have any in-game knowlege whatsoever... I have "in-game knowledge". It's just in-game knowledge doesn't all ways applly cuz...ERBODY AINT FROM THE SAME GAME.

Dark-Jaxx
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
*Sigh* Dones NOBODY read what I friggin say anymore? You and Jaxx BOTH missed what I said by leagues... Nowhere was I debating the canon validity of Udon or the Anime's... ALL I asked was that you show me IN-GAME feats that don't rely on outside media... No endings, no comics no movies... Just the friggin raw of the game, and NEITHER of you showed me this...

THIS is why Featwars arn't as high and mighty as some people like to think they are... NOBODY here seems to have any in-game knowlege whatsoever... Endings are not an outside media source, failure.

Everything I named is totally game based.

And wtf is your point? Feats that according to the creators are as good as feats from the game are still usable feats, what would YOU have us consider in debates? The fact that so and so was a "threat to the world" or some other bullshit?

You wanna use lore and random vague quotes to determine debates?

Okay. Pyron is omnipotent and only fought the DSers due to boredom. He beats everyone.

I-Drop
Originally posted by Sado22


I'm still looking for the definite source. & you'll likely never find one. Capcom sued Data East over Fighter's History & lost. Never sued SNK because "they were good competition". I think it's really because they didn't consider SNK a threat. Any company that presents ripoff suckassaki as a contender & not the joke that he is is destined for failure. big grin They created Dan instead of suing.

Sado22
fixed.


and yet, Dan existed before anyway in official arts. they said they consider SNK a formidable opponent. nice to see you pull this one outta your keister again laughing out loud

I-Drop
Yep, Dan existed b4 in the arts. You conced that there was no lawsuit now? Suing a formidable opponent is a bit<h move. That's why I was pissed when they sued Data East. I think they saw FH as a threat. The characters were way less similar to SF than those in AOF. I think "formidable opponent" was Capcom's nice way of saying "future business failure" big grin

Jayct
Geese wins. And spite threads sucks.

SmashBro
Originally posted by I-Drop
Yep, Dan existed b4 in the arts. You conced that there was no lawsuit now? Suing a formidable opponent is a bit<h move. That's why I was pissed when they sued Data East. I think they saw FH as a threat. The characters were way less similar to SF than those in AOF. I think "formidable opponent" was Capcom's nice way of saying "future business failure" big grin

I thought I was the only one who thought that. I always thought that Capcom sued Data East for that same reason and not because FH was "too similar" to SF. I really get sick of how some people just jump the hate wagon just because Capcom sued them and lost and never even think about exactly WHY they lost.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Endings are not an outside media source, failure.

Everything I named is totally game based.

And wtf is your point? Feats that according to the creators are as good as feats from the game are still usable feats, what would YOU have us consider in debates? The fact that so and so was a "threat to the world" or some other bullshit?

You wanna use lore and random vague quotes to determine debates?

Okay. Pyron is omnipotent and only fought the DSers due to boredom. He beats everyone.

Oh for the love of........

I DIDN'T SAY YOU COULD'T USE OTHER MEDIA IN ORDINARY DEBATES!!!

I asked a simple question, and I get the runaround... If you can't name ingame feats you should have fugging said so when I asked in the first place, not drag out the thing over 2 pages...

I mean, for christ sake it's not a difficult thing to admit is it?

Endings are for the most part, what-if's, they have never been canon unless they are CONFIRMED to be so.

And yes, Pyron has a bucketload of ingame, even gameplay feats that you simply either not seeing, or your being stubborn because what I'm asking for doesn't coincide with your almighty story feats...

Come on Jax, your better than that.

Sado22
laughing

Man of Violence
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Oh for the love of........

I DIDN'T SAY YOU COULD'T USE OTHER MEDIA IN ORDINARY DEBATES!!!

I asked a simple question, and I get the runaround... If you can't name ingame feats you should have fugging said so when I asked in the first place, not drag out the thing over 2 pages...

I mean, for christ sake it's not a difficult thing to admit is it?

Endings are for the most part, what-if's, they have never been canon unless they are CONFIRMED to be so.

And yes, Pyron has a bucketload of ingame, even gameplay feats that you simply either not seeing, or your being stubborn because what I'm asking for doesn't coincide with your almighty story feats...

Come on Jax, your better than that. I don't get yur point at all.

Rather the endin is canon or not doesn't take away the feats produced in the endin'. The event is NOT canon but the actions taken in the endin are. Now this does not apply to non canon games like MVC.

If that up there does not pretain to yur argument then I suppose you might as well drop the discussion cuz I don't know WTF you are tryin' to get across to us or at least to me.

Sado22
*going by Ken's "endurance feats"*
Geese trips Ken. Ken dies

Ryu: oh no! they killed kenny! sad

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Man of Violence
I don't get yur point at all.

Rather the endin is canon or not doesn't take away the feats produced in the endin'. The event is NOT canon but the actions taken in the endin are. Now this does not apply to non canon games like MVC.

If that up there does not pretain to yur argument then I suppose you might as well drop the discussion cuz I don't know WTF you are tryin' to get across to us or at least to me.

http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10071/picard-no-facepalm.jpg

*Sigh...*

#1: Can you prove that Non-canon endings demonstrate usable ability? And why does this only apply to certain games and not others of equal quality? For example "Jinpachi Ending"

#2: I asked you to name ingame feats, you couldn't, this proves that the most valuable feats fall to the wayside in favour of yout trusty "Story feats" that for a good portion of, cannot be proven to be a canon ability in the first place.

Make no mistake, I confirmed whats canon and whats not in reguards to capcom's fighters because I bought all the stuff. I can spot the gold in the shit from 12 parsecs away.. stick out tongue

What I am getting at is that your well beloved feats, even though they can be proven, can also be grosely misinterpreted and misrepresented in these debates, hence why they arn't ALWAYS the most convincing of evidence.

Sado22
Darko, stop being stupid. every rule every law every excuse in the galaxy no matter how lame is perfectly valid when you're supporting a SF character. i can't believe how stupid you are! stick out tongue

Darkstorm Zero
Hey, look, I usually support Capcom characters for the most part, but there's a line bitween supporting them when your right, and blowing out chunks of garbage because one oozes affection for the characters...

And that line should be friggin huge...

Sado22
which is what the problem is what SF supporters. i remember a time when i was arguing with a dude who insisted that Ryu can beat Omega Rugal. so i asked him if he thought that ryu can beat the entire cast of KoF95. guess what his answer was? roll eyes (sarcastic)

Kirikaze Fuuma
Originally posted by Sado22
which is what the problem is what SF supporters. i remember a time when i was arguing with a dude who insisted that Ryu can beat Omega Rugal. so i asked him if he thought that ryu can beat the entire cast of KoF95. guess what his answer was? roll eyes (sarcastic)

eek! interesting. what did he said?

Sado22
it was an "overrated" answer big grin

NonSensi-Klown
Originally posted by Sado22
which is what the problem is what SF supporters.

Excuse me?

I have never seen more rabid SF haters on this board than any other board in my life. Fortunately, most of them are gone.

Dark-Jaxx
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
#1: Can you prove that Non-canon endings demonstrate usable ability? And why does this only apply to certain games and not others of equal quality? For example "Jinpachi Ending"

#2: I asked you to name ingame feats, you couldn't, this proves that the most valuable feats fall to the wayside in favour of yout trusty "Story feats" that for a good portion of, cannot be proven to be a canon ability in the first place.

Make no mistake, I confirmed whats canon and whats not in reguards to capcom's fighters because I bought all the stuff. I can spot the gold in the shit from 12 parsecs away.. stick out tongue

What I am getting at is that your well beloved feats, even though they can be proven, can also be grosely misinterpreted and misrepresented in these debates, hence why they arn't ALWAYS the most convincing of evidence. 1. Jinpachi in his ending flew away. Whoa. That's some impressive shit right there. Why would the creators in the actual game portray the characters doing something they are incapable of doing?

2. I gave you feats from the game's canon. But no, they had to be gameplay feats. Which is stupid and retarded, and always will be. Story feats cannot be proven to be canon? Other than being a CANON part of the character? That statement was ignorant in every sense of the word. Every feat of Pyron's, other than obvious shit like he can shapeshift and is like really strong, was from the canon storyline of the game.

3. You don't appear to have a grasp of what=a game feat and what an outside media source is.

4. "Gee, since Jinpachi can threaten existence, even though he is virtually featless, he must be able to beat up Gouki!"

Sado22
you know it works kinda simply. Jinpachi was holding back the whole time. the transformation wasn't taking time. he was resisting it as much as we could. what he transforms into in his ending IS true jinpachi because he's no longer holding back. dah. hence, yes, he CAN actually defeat Gouki and IS a threat to existence because if he ever gave in to his devil completely, that's what he'd be like and pwning the world is what he'll do. we've been over this before. Gouki is no threat to existence. not by a longshot....especially if a barrage of hadoukens barely do any damage.

~Sado

Darkstorm Zero
Look, if you don't have ggameplay feats, then I can conceivably prove that Pyron can't even manipulate things physically...

Example, your Planets orbiting his fingers feat.. Sure, it's impressive as heck, but cn he grab those planets and sqish-em like pimples? I can say no, because he is a being of energy, not matter. He can burn em up, but he can't physically crush them.

Do you like my demonstration now? Without gameplay, he can't be proven to physically touch anything... Now you and I both know thats bullshit.

You gave me feats, but nothing even remotely from the actual game short of non-canon endings. What you gave me was Udon feats, and a few tidbits from the OVA, which I told you was NOT what I was looking for. I'll say it again because your choosing to ignore me. I DIDN'T SAY THEY WHERN'T CANON, ALL I ASKED WAS FOR YOU TO DEMONSTRATE IN-GAME FEATS!

Alright... Jaxx, if you REALLY want to try so desperately to validate OVA and Udon as canon, despite me not even erguing their validity, why don't you SHOW these anti Capcom debaters WHERE it's stated that Udon and Anime are valid for character abilities...

Go on... I have my evidence, so I know I can do it, but thats not even my argument, so I'm leaving that shite to you now.

If you can't do it, then say so and stop wasting my time arguing a point I'm not even making...

Sado22
so....Udon is NOT canonical depiction? confused

Darkstorm Zero
I'll answer that, but only to go so far as to say that abilities demonstrated therein (Despite some of them being grossely overestimated, like Charlie destroying a cliffside with a Somersault Justice (!!!)) are considered accurate represenation by Capcom...

But I'll leave proving that to Jaxx till he can either do it, or confesses that he can't.

PS. Waith for a PM from me.

Sado22
yeah, but charlie's the shite big grin

Darkstorm Zero
Admittedly though, at that point, Charlie was pumped up on Psycho Power Steroids so...

Man of Violence
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
1: Can you prove that Non-canon endings demonstrate usable ability? And why does this only apply to certain games and not others of equal quality? For example "Jinpachi Ending"Damn DSZ Chill, I thought we were cool, "ace coon boon in the boom boom room". big grin

Name me one endin' in DS or SF where a characters' power is over exaggerated. You can't, I got the PSP version right now wit all the endins on it and there ain't one. It would be stupid to have Dan, for example, be the weakest character in the game but in his enedin' he does a Gadoken and blows up the world. There is no endin' where a character does a feat that is beyond his power except for non-canon games, like MVC and CFE, for example. Reasons why some games apply and others don't is cuz the games that dont apply are completly noncanon, games that could never actually happen like MVC. The version of Bison in MVC is not the real Bison so any feat done by Bison in that game belongs to THAT Bison, not the SF Bison. The version of Bison in SF IS the real Bison so any feat done by Bison in that game belongs to THAT Bison, not the MVC Bison. Do you get what I'm sayin'?

And I have no idea what you mean by "Jinpachi Ending".

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
##2: I asked you to name ingame feats, you couldn't, this proves that the most valuable feats fall to the wayside in favour of yout trusty "Story feats" that for a good portion of, cannot be proven to be a canon ability in the first place. That's where you and I differ, you think that the most valuable feats are in-game feats. I dont. Any feat shown that Capcom has said or shown the character doin' is just a valuable to me.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Make no mistake, I confirmed whats canon and whats not in reguards to capcom's fighters because I bought all the stuff. I can spot the gold in the shit from 12 parsecs away.. Then you know that er feat I bring to the table is said canon by Capcom rather it came from a game or not. I wouldn't say it if it wasn't true, it aint that serious to me to lie over a VG character, yo. sad

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
What I am getting at is that your well beloved feats, even though they can be proven, can also be grosely misinterpreted and misrepresented in these debates, hence why they arn't ALWAYS the most convincing of evidence. If some body misinterprets the feat, it aint my fault, it's thier's and they need to get thier shit straight. Tell me DSZ, drop some knowledge on me, tutor me to the game, open that door for me, show me the light...what is more important than feats? After sayin' so, give me an example, PLEEZ!

Man of Violence
Originally posted by DSZ
Hey, look, I usually support Capcom characters for the most part, but there's a line bitween supporting them when your right, and blowing out chunks of garbage because one oozes affection for the characters...

And that line should be friggin huge... Are you talkin' bout' me cuz I really am tryin' to be civil but when peeps start sayin' stupid shit like that about me, it can really phuck a debate up. So just let me know now if that's how you feel, yo. Cuz If you do, then your a total retard if you think I feel that way and your still tryin' to argue a point and expect me to accept it. I "ooz affection for the characters", I will never listen to you, that's common sence. So if you feel like this you might as well not reply to the post above and stop.Originally posted by Sado22
*going by Ken's "endurance feats"*
Geese trips Ken. Ken dies

Ryu: oh no! they killed kenny! sad No, just cuz a character has no feats in that aspect doesn't mean he's totally weak in that aspect. Cuz Ken has no "endurance feats" he should at least be held at the level of a skilled regular martial artist and as far as I know, regular humans don't die from bein' tripped and seein as how Geese has no "endurance feats" the same can be said for him. laughingOriginally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Jinpachi in his ending flew away. Whoa. That's some impressive shit right there. Why would the creators in the actual game portray the characters doing something they are incapable of doing? My point exactly!

Sado22
Geese survived being punched and kicked so hard by terry his whole upperbody was scarred. EVERY scar on Geese's body is coutsy Terry's powerful moves. I've seen SFcats comment on Sagat's durability for surviving ONE scar. Geese has way more than he does and the X-shaped on his back is bigger than Sagat's. Geese survived it and lived through sheer willpower. And unlike Sagat, he didnt' get medical treatment in a hospital but simply went underground and healed overtime.
that's one endurance feat for you.

Ken has no endurance feat. and i was talking about the time in the 1st USAMA tournament where Ken was about to lose to some no name chum who tossed ken to the ground and ken was put in a pinch hysterical

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Man of Violence
Damn DSZ Chill, I thought we were cool, "ace coon boon in the boom boom room". big grin

We are cool, All I'm trying to do is make a demonstration, and you guys are all over my tail about it, Do you know what happens when you step on someone's tail? They turn around and snap you in half for it

Originally posted by Man of Violence
Name me one endin' in DS or SF where a characters' power is over exaggerated. You can't, I got the PSP version right now wit all the endins on it and there ain't one. It would be stupid to have Dan, for example, be the weakest character in the game but in his enedin' he does a Gadoken and blows up the world. There is no endin' where a character does a feat that is beyond his power except for non-canon games, like MVC and CFE, for example. Reasons why some games apply and others don't is cuz the games that dont apply are completly noncanon, games that could never actually happen like MVC. The version of Bison in MVC is not the real Bison so any feat done by Bison in that game belongs to THAT Bison, not the SF Bison. The version of Bison in SF IS the real Bison so any feat done by Bison in that game belongs to THAT Bison, not the MVC Bison. Do you get what I'm sayin'?

Dan defeating Bison with the Hisshou Burai Ken even before the Drive was destroyed being a really huge one... That was easy enough...

I didn't even mention MVC, CVS, SVC or CFE... WTF did that come from?

Originally posted by Man of Violence
And I have no idea what you mean by "Jinpachi Ending".

You expect people to swallow that Non-canon endings for Capcom characters demonstrate true and usable ability, yet deny the same privelage to other fighting games, Jinpachi being a threat to life on earth is a major one, and the centerpoint of much conflict in these debates... I personally think if it's non-canon, it's inadmissable as evidence for use in debates unless the Thread-Starter says so.

The simple fact of the matter is, even though Non Caonon endings are impressive, the simple fact is that the character has never ACTUALLY done the feat according to the timeline. Do you get my understanding now?

Originally posted by Man of Violence
That's where you and I differ, you think that the most valuable feats are in-game feats. I dont. Any feat shown that Capcom has said or shown the character doin' is just a valuable to me.

I never said that they are MORE valuable, I said they should be used with equal measure..

Originally posted by Man of Violence
Then you know that er feat I bring to the table is said canon by Capcom rather it came from a game or not. I wouldn't say it if it wasn't true, it aint that serious to me to lie over a VG character, yo. sad

So you never lie AND you never wrong? You must be the Jesus of KMC VGvs... laughing

Originally posted by Man of Violence
If some body misinterprets the feat, it aint my fault, it's thier's and they need to get thier shit straight. Tell me DSZ, drop some knowledge on me, tutor me to the game, open that door for me, show me the light...what is more important than feats? After sayin' so, give me an example, PLEEZ!

So, let me get this straight... If I say that "Gouki can blow up earth ith a punch 'cause he did it to an asteroid capable of blowing up Earth", then thats others misinterpreting feats, not me misrepresenting feats?

err... roll eyes (sarcastic)

Originally posted by Man of Violence
Are you talkin' bout' me cuz I really am tryin' to be civil but when peeps start sayin' stupid shit like that about me, it can really phuck a debate up. So just let me know now if that's how you feel, yo. Cuz If you do, then your a total retard if you think I feel that way and your still tryin' to argue a point and expect me to accept it. I "ooz affection for the characters", I will never listen to you, that's common sence. So if you feel like this you might as well not reply to the post above and stop.

I named no names... if you think that was directed at anyone specific, you'd be mistaken. That comment covers a broad spectrum of debaters I have had to speak to over my 3 and a half year career here...

Sado22
first a black president now a black jesus. 2008 rocks!! laughing

Kirikaze Fuuma
MOV is black?

Sado22
can't you tell, foo? erm

P-Geyser
I actually have to add on what Benedict Sado stated. Alot of people OUTSIDE KMC, think Ryu owns everybody's a$$ for free and I am talking about personal experience. As much as Terry is hated here, and all of his "dickeating storyines," he is also loved in the fighting game world per se but he is nowhere put on a pedestal like Ryu. Also no one would say Terry can beat the whole 95 cast because if they did, sure enough they would be castrated and beaten to a pulp.

Sado22
if Terry ran an SF3 gauntlet, the only people he'd have trouble with would be ryu, ken, urien and Oro (not counting gill). everyone else would just be fodder. but hell no, he aint beating any of them all together.

~Sado

Man of Violence
Originally posted by Sado22
Geese survived being punched and kicked so hard by terry his whole upperbody was scarred. Regular people get scarred all the time by punches and kicks, by regular people.

Originally posted by Sado22
EVERY scar on Geese's body is coutsy Terry's powerful moves. I've seen SFcats comment on Sagat's durability for surviving ONE scar. ONE scar that almost killed'im in ONE move. I've never heard of Terry doin' such a thing and you know what, he hasn't. Step into the ring wit a skilled martial artist and let'im kick yo ass, sure to leave plenty scars.

Originally posted by Sado22
Geese has way more than he does and the X-shaped on his back is bigger than Sagat's.

1.Geese has some scars but they aint bigger than Sagat's. Nor do they glow when he touches'em. laughing

2.This shows Sagat is better than Geese cuz Sagat got his scars over time fightin different people. All Geese's scar come from gettin' rocked by one dude who has no feats.

Originally posted by Sado22
Geese survived it and lived through sheer willpower. And unlike Sagat, he didnt' get medical treatment in a hospital but simply went underground and healed overtime.
that's one endurance feat for you. Which is somthin' a regular man could do. Now a day after gettin' treatment you put a dude in a hospital who can break stone Buddha statues wit his knee and then instead of sittin' down and healin, you train like your life depended on it, like you wasn't almost killed yesterday? That's some super human shit for that ass.


Originally posted by Sado22
Ken has no endurance feat. and i was talking about the time in the 1st USAMA tournament where Ken was about to lose to some no name chum who tossed ken to the ground and ken was put in a pinch hysterical You have yet to prove that and when you do I will have no problem believin' you. Also Geese has no endurance feats either, sooooo...

Man of Violence
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
We are cool, All I'm trying to do is make a demonstration, and you guys are all over my tail about it, Do you know what happens when you step on someone's tail? They turn around and snap you in half for it



Dan defeating Bison with the Hisshou Burai Ken even before the Drive was destroyed being a really huge one... That was easy enough...

I didn't even mention MVC, CVS, SVC or CFE... WTF did that come from?



You expect people to swallow that Non-canon endings for Capcom characters demonstrate true and usable ability, yet deny the same privelage to other fighting games, Jinpachi being a threat to life on earth is a major one, and the centerpoint of much conflict in these debates... I personally think if it's non-canon, it's inadmissable as evidence for use in debates unless the Thread-Starter says so.

The simple fact of the matter is, even though Non Caonon endings are impressive, the simple fact is that the character has never ACTUALLY done the feat according to the timeline. Do you get my understanding now?

1. My bad....

2. Not you too DSZ! Beatin' someone is not a feat. And I brought up MVC as an example of a games endins that truly don't count cuz the entire game is non canon.

3.WTF? That makes me sound like I have double standards, which I don't. Which is why I can say I never did that. Name me one time sayin that an endin from a canon game didn't count cuz the endin in this canon game wasn't canon. Name one time. And Jinpachi's endin' says nothin' about him bein' a threat to life on earth. My point is, "Why would the creators in the actual game portray the characters doing something they are incapable of doing?" Answer is...they wouldn't and they never have at least in SF and DS and beatin' somebody aint a feat.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
So you never lie AND you never wrong? You must be the Jesus of KMC VGvs... laughing I don't lie and I'm hardly ever wrong. And what's the big deal about that? Is it so hard to go in a debate and not lie and know all the facts first before postin'? If it is then maybe I really am the Jesus of KMC Game VS. But that aint really sayin' much lookin' at the atmosphere of this place.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
So, let me get this straight... If I say that "Gouki can blow up earth ith a punch 'cause he did it to an asteroid capable of blowing up Earth", then thats others misinterpreting feats, not me misrepresenting feats? You see, not only is that endin' not canon but the game its self is not a canon SF game, so ALL the endins in that game don't count cuz the game its self never really happened at all. Do you get it now?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I named no names... if you think that was directed at anyone specific, you'd be mistaken. That comment covers a broad spectrum of debaters I have had to speak to over my 3 and a half year career here... Well you are only arguin' wit 2 people here which leads me to believe you are either directin' that at me or Jaxx or both of us.

Kirikaze Fuuma
Dan, who is far from Bison in term of power can defeat Bison. agreed with DSZ, that shows how exaggerated the ending is.



what a confidence erm

I-Drop
Originally posted by Man of Violence
This shows Sagat is better than Geese cuz Sagat got his scars over time fightin different people. All Geese's scar come from gettin' rocked by one dude who has no feats. laughing out loud

Sado22
dude, those were lacerations. getting socked in the kisser and getting a scar on your lips is one thing. getting laceration-like ALL over you body is another thing. geese had no damage to his face. all the scars he had were on his body. and they are huge scars the type that come only from insane powerful shots.

and from geese's own mouth in FF3, he says they are "sinuses". that's the wtf power of Terry Bogard for you. and that's a feat without cheapy power upgrades that he still uses like a cheating n00b.


you never heard of it cuz nobody realizes it. dah.
the one scar ryu gave fagat was from a power boost. its different. Terry didn't go dark hadou or anything. and i've been in plenty of fights, taken lots of things to the head too. the only scars i have on me are on my head and face whcih is because that area is most sensitive. i have three scars: one from taking a wiper swing near the eye, the other from falling and smacking my head on a window that broke, and third from being accidentally stabbed in hte head with a pair of scissors (yeah, you read right)
now please, name me one person in history who ever scared somebody with a body blow or a kick. the only scars that ever happened are on the face. NOT the body unless a weapon was involved.


the glowing thing is an effect. in case you didn't notice, his eyes glow too. that probably means he's godtier now?
and of course the scars on Geese's back are bigger. and they aare TWO of them.


1. has feats...one of them being scarring geese. stop being in denial. not cool.
2. sagat lost his eye to Goh for getting cocky, got his other scar for assuming he won and we don't know how he got the gash on his head. so the man got scarred for all the wrong reasons. some feat roll eyes (sarcastic)


unlike sagat.


surviving multiple scars and sionuses

Now a day after gettin' treatment you put a dude in a hospital who can break stone Buddha statues wit his knee and then instead of sittin' down and healin, you train like your life depended on it, like you wasn't almost killed yesterday? That's some super human shit for that ass.
no its not. not when you get a power upgrade "hogan" didn't do it without power boosts. and stop talking like evil ryu and ryu are the same person when it comes to power. they are not.
no dice.


i posted the thing back in this thread IIRC. check it for yourself.

~Sado

I-Drop
You R incorectly. This is what you sent me 2day via PM

Ken from SFZ2

Shoryureppa

"Ch......got me didn'cha."
It's the fighting championship's finals. For Ken Masters, in spite of being
the tournament's newly participating rookie, he won and advanced to the next
round with bamboo breaking vigor, hogging the subjects within the assembly
halls. Before his sure killing jumping upper "shoryuken", he was sinking the
victory nominated players one by one.
However, circumstances with the finals were different. Perhaps that blue gi
giant was likely a karate Black Belt, such that he was predicting the timing
of the ruling move shoryuken that he fortified a guard on it. And so catching
a defenseless Ken during his fall, he struck him into the ring. Already he
couldn't apply the shoryuken......at a breath Ken, was driven into a dilemma.
A better opponent, as he was seemingly waiting for the shoryuken. Having
captured his sure killing techniques, he could see to fight with composure.
"'Don't be taking me lightly......', still not less of a case which has room
for you eh?"
Sink or swim, Ken was realizing a planned clever scheme.
"Failure is an instant pinch, yet, it'll probably be interesting."
Quickly at the interval's end, Ken releases the shoryuken. His opponent
with a broadly grinning sneer, guarded this.
Did he take victory or defeat?......everyone had concluded at that instant.
However, immediately following that blown outside of the ring, was the gi
giant's person.
The initial shoryuken slightly attacked, shifted before the predicted drop
point, in the twinkling of an eye he lets out the next shoryuken......even
Ken himself could not believe the consecutive move.
"Here's some sense for you fella......better watch out!" Even barely for
Ken victory was in his hands. There's a great uproar at the assembly halls
from the unexpected result.
Since then the name "shoryureppa" was given to the base form of the
combination upper.


This looks nothing like the shit you been spewing. Struck to the ground doesn't seem like a throw & you made it seem like Ken was getting totally fuked up. More exaggeration from you to make a SF guy look bad. This is getting tiresome.

Kirikaze Fuuma
try to imagine this... before Ken landed after performing shoryuken, his opponent catch him and struck Ken into the ring. sounds like a throw doesn't it?

I-Drop
Or he caught him and socked him. Struck could simply mean "hit". I caught Kriz while he wasn't paying attention and socked him. In any case, it doesn't look as bad as tardo made it seem

Sado22
i-drop, what does "struck him INTO the ring mean? thats a new low for you, mane. not cool no expression
and as for making ken look bad, you wanna tell me what the f0ck does it mean when the throw had him in a pinch? notice that it was the ONLY move that he did on Ken that we know of. till then all he had done was fortify against the shoryuken previously.

and

the only way everyone could have driven THIS conclusion is if Ken was not only in a pinch but was at his limit. hence pwned because of a throw.

get a life laughing out loud

~Sado

I-Drop
laughing out loud Hey fool, go check your PMs. You don't know WTF you're talking about.

Sado22
seems like we both suck then. you don't know what "struck into the ring" means even though you're american laughing which happened to be the main point anyway. nice dodge, foo wink

I-Drop
Struck into the ring is open to interpretation, [email protected] I-drop caught Sado off guard and struck him into the wall, punishing him for his ignorance. Put what you sent me here & let others interpret it, fool. To me it looks like he simply got socked & was sent to the canvas

Sado22
i-drop stuck Sado into the wall i.e. he smashed sado into the wall.
nice way of proving my point, retard big grin

I-Drop
Nah tardo. I used a STRIKE(present tense of struck) to put you into the wall. It's stRuck. Not stuck. You lose 2 more points for bad reading. I punched you & you flew into said wall. We don't both suck. You suck all by yourself.

For those who don't know, Sado thinks "at a breath" means Ken was panting laughing out loud

Sado22
it was a typo. looks at YOU exaggerate like a mofo laughing out loud

being struck into the ring means only one thing: it was throw or a slam. if it said "struck" ken then yeah you'd have a point.

~Sado

I-Drop
Originally posted by Sado22
it was a typo. looks at YOU exaggerate like a mofo laughing out loud

being struck into the ring means only one thing: it was throw or a slam. if it said "struck" ken then yeah you'd have a point.

~Sado struck "him" into the ring. The "him" IS Ken! WTF is wrong w/you?!

Sado22
dude, it clearly said "struck ken into the ring". it didn't say "struck ken". it was struck INTO. and you didnt answer my question: what do you supoose he did to ken then? do the superman fatality? get real.
fail.

I-Drop
Originally posted by Sado22
dude, it clearly said "struck ken into the ring". it didn't say "struck ken". it was struck INTO. and you didnt answer my question: what do you supoose he did to ken then? do the superman fatality? get real.
fail. Are you telling me the guy threw ken thru the floor of the ring? laughing out loud If I knock you into a wall do I make you part of the wall?

Sado22
don't answer a question with a question.

I-Drop
Just pointing out how dumb you sound. If I knock you into a wall, does it mean I knocked you thru the wall?

Sado22
still not answering the question.

I-Drop
Any STRIKE that sends Ken to the floor, genius. Now answer my question.

Sado22
don't think so. if it was just a "strike" it would've said "struck ken" and that's it. struck ken INTO the ring simply means he was slammed into via throw. ever watched WWE? next time watch out for JR saying "nailed him into the mat" without the person being actually driven inside the ring. its just hyperbole. used all the time by everybody. ken was struck into the ring means he was smacked into it with a throw. not driven into it.

~Sado

I-Drop
He got struck. Not slammed. Watch at 1:13. Dude is struck, not slammed into the ring.

& watch at 1:49 Jack is struck into the ground. When somebody gets slammed does JR say "struck into the mat"?

I'm tired. Be back sometime soon.

Sado22
to the ground. i got socked to the ground. i got punched to the ground. i got struck to the ground............is one thing. i got my ass throwin into the ground, i got slammed into the ground, i got nailed into the ground, i got struck into the ground.

i'm tired too. you wanna discuss semantics and whatnot, make a english lit/lang board and we'll settle it there. the point is ken got oneshotted into a pinch. throw or not.

~Sado

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