Who can Defeat the Flash?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

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Hitman911
With the w/ Gem of Cyttorak??????

The ultimate unstoppable force!!!

Wei Phoenix
8th Day or Trion Juggernaut. I guess Thor if he seals his power off.

Hitman911
Thor dies...

Wei Phoenix
how so? All current Thor has to do is throw the hammer around and seal off the blessing. Is the Flash evil now that he has the power of the Gem?

Knowsbleed33
That Thor thing was complete garbage.

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
That Thor thing was complete garbage.

Trust me I feel your pain on that. I actually hate Thor and Cain is my all time favorite character. The fact that it happened in a rematch because the Thor fans "demanded" it doesn't make it seem any better.

Still if Flash is still a good guy then the gem isn't going to do much for him. He'll still be powered, but it'll be compared to the depowered Juggernaut.

Knowsbleed33
When did it happen again?

Wei Phoenix
What the Thor stealing his power? It was after the embarassment of their first fight that Cain gave him. Where the weakened version of Thor got mauled and where his godblast didn't even hurt Cain but it for some reason pushed him back, but the ground miracuosly gave in before Cain could start pushing back.

The issue even had the words "Because you demanded it" It ended stupidly with a BFR with Thor somehow tangling his hand in Mjolnir's strap or whatever and throwing it to another planet or whatever. Now why didn't Cain just hang on and come back with the hammer? IDK. The only thing I really like from that issue is that Thor still couldn't KO a depowered Juggernaut with his fist. The writer tied Cain's invulnerability to his Forcefield and without it was a sitting duck waiting to be beaten.

Knowsbleed33
I accept the GF blast stopping and pushing Cain back. Marvel has maintained for years that strong magic can stop Cain.

I'm talking about the debacle that was Thor #429 when the writers made it seem that Juggernauts forcefield was the source of his invulnerability when we all know it's not.

Hitman911
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
how so? All current Thor has to do is throw the hammer around and seal off the blessing. Is the Flash evil now that he has the power of the Gem? This is evil-no-mercy- Flash

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Hitman911
This is evil-no-mercy- Flash

Doesn't need the gem. He just runs circles around the Earth until it turns into a blackhole for reasons that no one can be bothered to explain.

Hitman911
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
how so? All current Thor has to do is throw the hammer around and seal off the blessing. Is the Flash evil now that he has the power of the Gem? Am i the only one that realizes that Thor vs Juggs is a totally different battle in every way from Thor vs a C-gem powered Flash!?!?!?

Wei Phoenix
Yeah I know what you mean because Cain obviously had his FF up every second of his life as the Juggernaut when he fights whoever. However sometimes I guess it is better for them to get lucky but I think Spider-Man said it the best while trying to teach a kid about being a hero: "Sometimes, against people like Juggernaut, you just have to learn when to lose."

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by Hitman911
Am i the only one that realizes that Thor vs Juggs is a totally different battle in every way from Thor vs a C-gem powered Flash!?!?!?

Nevermind since I didn't see your previous post. If Flash is evil then yeah he'll be stronger.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Hitman911
Am i the only one that realizes that Thor vs Juggs is a totally different battle in every way from Thor vs a C-gem powered Flash!?!?!?

Yes.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Do you fully understand the abilities of the Gem? Flash won't get the full power if he is still doing good. Cyttorak said himself that his power can't be used for good. Flash would have to be a malevolent killer causing destruction for him to have the power of Cyttorak.

Eh? I thought you just had to be acting in the interests of Cyttorak for the gem to work.

Also:

Originally posted by Hitman911
This is evil-no-mercy- Flash

Knowsbleed33
A mystical being of suffcient power could stop this Flash. He could break the enchantment turning Flash back into, well, Flash. Then it's a matter of catching him.

Wei Phoenix
Yeah I just saw that. Before we get confused, what I am saying is that you can't be a hero doing good with the full power of the Juggernaut that Cyttorak gives you.

Hitman911
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
A mystical being of suffcient power could stop this Flash. He could break the enchantment turning Flash back into, well, Flash. Then it's a matter of catching him. Which wwwwwwooouuullldddd be Dr. Strange but i dont think Flash would let him get that much needed "Second Shot."

Knowsbleed33
Dr. Strange has already stated on panel that he doesn't think he's powerful enough to severe Cains link to Cyttorak.

Wei Phoenix
Do you have a scan for that? I know I'll need it for future references.

Hitman911
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Dr. Strange has already stated on panel that he doesn't think he's powerful enough to severe Cains link to Cyttorak. Then what "mystical being" are u referring to?

Knowsbleed33
Skyfathers, Elder Gods etc.

D'spayre, a high end mystic, attempted to fully severe Cains link to Cyttorak and he couldn't.

Hitman911
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Skyfathers, Elder Gods etc.

D'spayre, a high end mystic, attempted to fully severe Cains link to Cyttorak and he couldn't. The crazy thing is, severing the link is only half the battle!!

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Skyfathers, Elder Gods etc.

D'spayre, a high end mystic, attempted to fully severe Cains link to Cyttorak and he couldn't.

Ah you seen that one too? That was absolutely one of my most feats for Cain.

ultimatethor
Classic strange. He cud throw time out of phase and then banish flash.

Hitman911
Originally posted by ultimatethor
Classic strange. He cud throw time out of phase and then banish flash. Not if he's a statue...

Galan007
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
That Thor thing was complete garbage. why?

golem370
Glorian- http://marvel.com/universe/Glorian

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by golem370
Glorian- http://marvel.com/universe/Glorian

God I hate MU.com. Their powergrids are so stupid and make no sense. The character you just showed is said to be a reality warper but his official ratings in all categories are 1. I pity anyone who references that site to show someone's power rating. Maybe they should you know redo that whole site.

Knowsbleed33
Originally posted by Galan007
why?

What part of it made sense to you?

Wei Phoenix
I think KB is talking about the fact that Cain was written as someone who is only invulnerable with his Forcefield. Apparently if you take his FF away in that book then he is as vulnerable as the next guy.

Knowsbleed33
There are many things wrong with that story.

First the fact that the writer depicted the Juggernauts forcefield as the source of his invulnerabilty.

Second the writer also made it seem that Thor severed Juggernaut from his power source, which we all know would've turned him back into Cain and the beating Thor gave him would've killed him.

Third it turned out to be all for naught. Despite seemingly taking away Juggernauts power and many peoples assessment that Thor gave Juggernaut the beating of a life time, Thor failed to even knock him off his feet. When the 60 seconds were over Juggernaut resumed handing Thor his ass before Thor BFR'd him.

It was hot garbage, the stinkiest kind.

Wei Phoenix
well that too, even Thor was amazed at his durability. I mean I know that magic of sufficient strength can hurt cain but Thor's fists aren't that magic.

golem370
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
God I hate MU.com. Their powergrids are so stupid and make no sense. The character you just showed is said to be a reality warper but his official ratings in all categories are 1. I pity anyone who references that site to show someone's power rating. Maybe they should you know redo that whole site.


I think people haven't rated him that why the bars of his chart are so low.

occultdestroyer
No one below Skyfather level

Hitman911
so lets just say for the sake of argument that if C-Gem Flash wanted to destroy DC/Marvel earth that he would succeed?

Knowsbleed33
I guess that would depend on whether or not Tiamut decided to act against this Flash.

Hitman911
Superman?

Hitman911
bump

zeel
RKT and Zoom

Space M ummy
Originally posted by Hitman911
so lets just say for the sake of argument that if C-Gem Flash wanted to destroy DC/Marvel earth that he would succeed?

Nah. there's some high end characters with oddball skillsets that could BFR or depower him.

A C-gem flash is basically a juggernaut with super speed- and jugs is still incredibly vulnerable to psi powers, magnetism (as shown when onslaught threw him across a continent), and any number of random magical attacks well under the skyfather level- jugs has been cut by shatterstar's blades before, for instance.

Off the top of my head:

A ghost rider that wasn't holding back (i.e. with the full power of Zarathos) would likely slaughter him, and HARD.

He'd be basically helpless against graviton or a fully powered magneto- either of which could immobilize or BFR him from anywhere on the planet.

If the eternals formed the uni-mind (look it up) he wouldn't last long.

The molecule man, even at his current power levels would turn C-gem flash into a pile of bricks with a thought.

Doom and/or Reed likely have anti-speedster devices somewhere.

There are a hell of a lot of characters for which this version of flash wouldn't be a problem at all, IMO.

Kasper Gutman
A goody two shoes like Flash would never get the full power of Juggernaut unless he went on a killer rampage and earned it.

Placidity
Originally posted by Space M ummy


A C-gem flash is basically a juggernaut with super speed


You make it sound like super speed is just some low tier ability. We're talking FLASH Super Speed. Speed Force. The type that would make him unperceivable to anyone except ones with high levels of speed themselves (excluding PIS).

Hitman911
Stop comparing Flash to Juggs. They are two different beings!!!! Magnetism is nothing to Flash. Juggs with the speedforce has different weaknesses then Flash with C-gem.

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