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Thanos,Silver Surfer and Genis Vell up agaisnt H/P Doomsday,Superman 1M and wonder woman who is completly equiped with all her gear. The fight has 2 stipulations:

1. It's a "all out"battle with no one holding back and no CIS.

2. There are no BFR's and everyone fights "in-character".

Depending on where the match took place, Team 1 could attempt to isolate WW for a majority of the match, letting them get the much needed 3 on 2 to pull out some wins against team 2.

team 2 without much difficulty, imo.

team 1 wins

Scenario 1: Marvel in a shitstomp.

Scenario 2: Marvel again, closer because of the no-BFR clause.

ohh, just noticed there were 2 different scenarios.

first battle = team 1, (only because of their option to BFR.)
second battle = team 2 without much difficulty.

Team 2 both times. Superman 1M? He kinda solo's. And Wondy with all gear would just use the medusa head and turn surfer and genis into stone. since it's old God magic.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Team 2 both times. Superman 1M? He kinda solo's.

Originally posted by Enyalus

Superman 1M? are you kidding me? The guy is abstract in power. His freaking force vision held half a galaxy at bay. don't be silly. He punched his way thru thousands of years into the futre while weak. Stop yourself.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Superman 1M? are you kidding me? The guy is abstract in power. His freaking force vision held half a galaxy at bay. don't be silly. He punched his way thru thousands of years into the futre while weak. Stop yourself. Superman 1M is not abstract level...

He didn't even show more power than a skyfather

Originally posted by fangirl101
Superman 1M? are you kidding me? The guy is abstract in power. His freaking force vision held half a galaxy at bay. don't be silly. He punched his way thru thousands of years into the futre while weak. Stop yourself.

No, he's not. He held half a galaxy together for a brief while. He punched his way through a broken time barrier.

Hulk's punched through a timestorm. Is he abstract level in power? No way in hell. S1M is Skyfather, sure.

Genis is so far beyond that...omniversal level telepathy, capable of killing Eternity, existence in every time period, self-resurrection, just to name a few.

And Thanos is also high-trans/low Skyfather. Who can BFR DD easily in the first match.

Originally posted by Enyalus
No, he's not. He held half a galaxy together for a brief while. He punched his way through a broken time barrier.

Hulk's punched through a timestorm. Is he abstract level in power? No way in hell. S1M is Skyfather, sure.

Genis is so far beyond that...omniversal level telepathy, capable of killing Eternity, existence in every time period, self-resurrection, just to name a few.

And Thanos is also high-trans/low Skyfather. Who can BFR DD easily in the first match.
He was skyfather without the super sun.

Originally posted by Enyalus
He punched his way through a broken time barrier. how'd you gather that the time barrier was broken?

Originally posted by Enyalus
Genis is so far beyond that...omniversal level telepathy, capable of killing Eternity, existence in every time period, self-resurrection, just to name a few. then sentry must be quite uber to have stalemated him for a while. same with zemo /w/ moonstones. srsly

no need to hype up genis so much

Originally posted by Enyalus
Scenario 1: Marvel in a shitstomp.

Scenario 2: Marvel again, closer because of the no-BFR clause.

How would SS handle Supes 1M...or even Diana with her complete gear. I don't know much about genis, although didnt Bob stalemate the guy?

Superman 1 m is too overpowered for this,and he didn't hold half a galaxy...he held a whole one for some time that was in forward motion towards another galaxy....its alot more then just ''holding it'',also how would they bfr him?he has a boomtube on him at all times.

Originally posted by Galan007
how'd you gather that the time barrier was broken?

It had stopped working. Also, I know you weren't the one who brought this up, but I'll say it here anyway: Supes 1M didn't punch through it while severely weakened per se. He used all the solar energy stored in his suit up to do what he did, and as a result was weakened because of it.

Originally posted by Galan007
then sentry must be quite uber to have stalemated him for a while. same with zemo /w/ moonstones. srsly

Genis was holding back. (So was Sentry, though.)

Originally posted by Galan007
no need to hype up genis so much

It's all true. Genis is beyond Skyfather. At full potential he was bisecting space and time for a 500 km radius around him. He even collapsed the entire universe and restarted it in an instant. (This happens during House of M.) Genis also controls photons - meaning he controls the very thing which powers Supes 1M. He's capable of soloing anyone on either team. And in scenario 1 he can solo the entire Team 2 with a BFR to the Microverse.

You like going by feats. I respect that. Combat feat wise, Supes 1M has nothing on Genis. He had difficulty with a teenage AS Superman, got damaged by Krypto (IIRC?) before putting him down, needed the assistance of...3 other Supermen to even bind the Chronovore, and needed the help of dozens of other superheroes to put down Solaris - when AS Superman had essentially solo'd him.

That's not abstract-level power. Not even close. Genis is in an entirely different league. Especially with CIS being off in scenario 1. (I see you gave Marvel the win there, so I shouldn't keep harping on that, should I? lol)

Anywho - yeah.

Originally posted by Enyalus


It had stopped working. Also, I know you weren't the one who brought this up, but I'll say it here anyway: Supes 1M didn't punch through it while severely weakened per se. He used all the solar energy stored in his suit up to do what he did, and as a result was weakened because of it.



Genis was holding back. (So was Sentry, though.)



It's all true. Genis is beyond Skyfather. At full potential he was bisecting space and time for a 500 km radius around him. He even collapsed the entire universe and restarted it in an instant. (This happens during House of M.) Genis also controls photons - meaning he controls the very thing which powers Supes 1M. He's capable of soloing anyone on either team. And in scenario 1 he can solo the entire Team 2 with a BFR to the Microverse.

You like going by feats. I respect that. Combat feat wise, Supes 1M has nothing on Genis. He had difficulty with a teenage AS Superman, got damaged by Krypto (IIRC?) before putting him down, needed the assistance of...3 other Supermen to even bind the Chronovore, and needed the help of dozens of other superheroes to put down Solaris - when AS Superman had essentially solo'd him.

That's not abstract-level power. Not even close. Genis is in an entirely different league. Especially with CIS being off in scenario 1. (I see you gave Marvel the win there, so I shouldn't keep harping on that, should I? lol)

Anywho - yeah.
Your are like a song that they play on the radio over and over that no one likes.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Your are like a song that they play on the radio over and over that no one likes.

That was a constructive post.



(I have no clue what you're talking about - no radio listening for me.)

Originally posted by Enyalus


It had stopped working. Also, I know you weren't the one who brought this up, but I'll say it here anyway: Supes 1M didn't punch through it while severely weakened per se. He used all the solar energy stored in his suit up to do what he did, and as a result was weakened because of it.



Genis was holding back. (So was Sentry, though.)



It's all true. Genis is beyond Skyfather. At full potential he was bisecting space and time for a 500 km radius around him. He even collapsed the entire universe and restarted it in an instant. (This happens during House of M.) Genis also controls photons - meaning he controls the very thing which powers Supes 1M. He's capable of soloing anyone on either team. And in scenario 1 he can solo the entire Team 2 with a BFR to the Microverse.

You like going by feats. I respect that. Combat feat wise, Supes 1M has nothing on Genis. He had difficulty with a teenage AS Superman, got damaged by Krypto (IIRC?) before putting him down, needed the assistance of...3 other Supermen to even bind the Chronovore, and needed the help of dozens of other superheroes to put down Solaris - when AS Superman had essentially solo'd him.

That's not abstract-level power. Not even close. Genis is in an entirely different league. Especially with CIS being off in scenario 1. (I see you gave Marvel the win there, so I shouldn't keep harping on that, should I? lol)

Anywho - yeah.
By the time supes 1m tried punching through the timestream he had already lost almost all of his powers and was severely weakened.

This isn't insane genis so all that crap is irrelevant regular old genis is a high herald and photon is mid herald.

You can't bfr supes 1m he has a boomtube integrated into his suit.

If diffuculty is slapping him down with no effort and making a fool of as superman then sure he had a lot of diffuculty,he was never damaged by krypto,and one of those supermen was a 5d imp....it makes the chronovore strong not supes weak,needed their help?he didn't get there until the fight was over and he contained solaris when kyle was about to lose it...as superman soloed a solaris with no upgrades and who was made with 21st century technology,supes 1mill fought 853rd century technology upgraded solaris big difference.

Supes 1 mill could bind nearly anyone on team 1 with a force jacket like he did hourman,he is vastly the physical superior and has a dozen others powers and senses not to mention his force vision that could solo anyone on team 1,you then have I adapt to everything and the only thing that actually killed me was a force several orders of magnitude stronger than anyone on team 1 can use doomsday.

Genis was never empowered before going insane or depowered after he regained his sanity.

Latest incarnation of Genis he had gotten stronger than before.

And yet he only displays herald level power after his insanity is gone.

Originally posted by Enyalus
It had stopped working. Also, I know you weren't the one who brought this up, but I'll say it here anyway: Supes 1M didn't punch through it while severely weakened per se. He used all the solar energy stored in his suit up to do what he did, and as a result was weakened because of it. there was nothing which indicated that the timeline had been "broken." nothing at all.

and yes, S1M was quite weak when he accomplished this feat. however, his suit had nothing to do with it. supes tapped the remaining solar energy in his body's cells to do what he did.

here's the facts: S1M physically busted through the timestream, completely unaided - while extremely weak.

Originally posted by Enyalus
It's all true. Genis is beyond Skyfather. At full potential he was bisecting space and time for a 500 km radius around him. He even collapsed the entire universe and restarted it in an instant. (This happens during House of M.) was not genis 'wanda-amped' during that instance, thus making the feats he accomplished during HoM somewhat non-canonical to his powerset?

Originally posted by Enyalus
Genis also controls photons - meaning he controls the very thing which powers Supes 1M. He's capable of soloing anyone on either team. And in scenario 1 he can solo the entire Team 2 with a BFR to the Microverse. none

Originally posted by Enyalus
You like going by feats. I respect that. Combat feat wise, Supes 1M has nothing on Genis. He had difficulty with a teenage AS Superman, got damaged by Krypto (IIRC?) before putting him down, needed the assistance of...3 other Supermen to even bind the Chronovore, and needed the help of dozens of other superheroes to put down Solaris - when AS Superman had essentially solo'd him. S1M made AS supes look rather pathetic, actually. sure, krypto blindsided S1M, but in the next page he had krypto by the throat like the minor nuisance he was.

anyhow, if you recall, S1M never attempted to face the chronovore. however, judging by how he dealt with AS supes (who did bind the creature,) it obviously wouldn't have been much of a challenge... and please remember that S1M never wanted to hurt AS supes. all he was trying to do was get him to go see his dying father, instead of fighting the chronovore.


as for S1M battling solaris, once he applied force-vision, he could have beaten it. the only thing that stopped him from doing this, was when he thought prime had just been killed.

now when AS supes 'beat' solaris, it was in it's infancy. nowhere near as powerful as when S1M dealt with it.

Originally posted by Enyalus
That's not abstract-level power. Not even close. Genis is in an entirely different league. Especially with CIS being off in scenario 1. (I see you gave Marvel the win there, so I shouldn't keep harping on that, should I? lol) i never gave S1M abstract level power. not once. i simply think that if sentry was capable of holding genis off, why couldn't S1M?

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
And yet he only displays herald level power after his insanity is gone.

I never read the Genis fight with Baron, but everything else I saw he operated on the same levels he did while insane.

Originally posted by Galan007
ohh, just noticed there were 2 different scenarios.

first battle = team 1, (only because of their option to BFR.)
second battle = team 2 without much difficulty.

Don't know about the without much difficulty part for the second battle but Ill agree with this.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
By the time supes 1m tried punching through the timestream he had already lost almost all of his powers and was severely weakened.

And then tapped into his suit's reserves for the power to do what he did...



Firstly, the OP doesn't specify. It's Genis period. And without CIS. Secondly, he is no weaker sane than insane. He simply doesn't hold back. And Photon is his strongest incarnation.



Kind of hard to boom tube into a place where spacetime is literally bisected.



Except that SS and Genis can phase through objects.



No. Genis holding back was stalemating Maestro physically. SS overpowered Hulk and through him into a wall, and when grappling - had Ravenous on his knees.

Besides that, SS or Genis can wipe out the Super Sun with a black hole or energy blast. Or as I said, BFR to the Microverse. Not to mention that Genis is a top tier energy absorber and manipulator, with total control over photons - which is what powers Supes 1M.



Thanos or Genis could shut down DD's mind. Thanos has done so to the freakin' Beyonder and Fallen One, while Genis is an omniversal telepath. And then there's Thanos' famous Force Block, too.

Originally posted by Mindset
I never read the Genis fight with Baron, but everything else I saw he operated on the same levels he did while insane.
Meh if he was at his insane levels I don't see why he couldn't have dealt with sentry easily even while holding back,and again no enyalus he didn't tap anything but his own powers,its the most recent version of genis and photon is not some beyond herald being,boomtubes teleport people across different dimensions/universes all the time it won't be hard,yes he is as supermans complete superior in physical power they measure his power in stars he can blow a sun out with just his breathe while he is weakened,and you keep acting like 1 mil will sit there and let them do anything,prove genis can take his power o wait you can't,1mil is beyond herald level beings by leaps and bounds.

Originally posted by Enyalus


And then tapped into his suit's reserves for the power to do what he did...



Firstly, the OP doesn't specify. It's Genis period. And without CIS. Secondly, he is no weaker sane than insane. He simply doesn't hold back. And Photon is his strongest incarnation.



Kind of hard to boom tube into a place where spacetime is literally bisected.



Except that SS and Genis can phase through objects.



No. Genis holding back was stalemating Maestro physically. SS overpowered Hulk and through him into a wall, and when grappling - had Ravenous on his knees.

Besides that, SS or Genis can wipe out the Super Sun with a black hole or energy blast. Or as I said, BFR to the Microverse. Not to mention that Genis is a top tier energy absorber and manipulator, with total control over photons - which is what powers Supes 1M.



Thanos or Genis could shut down DD's mind. Thanos has done so to the freakin' Beyonder and Fallen One, while Genis is an omniversal telepath. And then there's Thanos' famous Force Block, too.
since when did h/p Doomsday have a mind to shut down. And I thought he was immune to any kind of energy blast or manip. are you sure you re thinking about the right characters for the thread?

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Meh if he was at his insane levels I don't see why he couldn't have dealt with sentry easily even while holding back,

But didn't he do that?

Originally posted by Galan007
there was nothing which indicated that the timeline had been "broken." nothing at all.

The portal was broken, which was why they couldn't get back. He punched through it.



Nope. He specifically said that the suit he wears stores power in his suit, which is how he's able to travel to places that don't have the Super Sun. And he tapped all of the stored power in his suit, thus greatly aging/weakening him. I do agree he was already weakening prior to that point. Couldn't even fly or use his HV.



He was hitting a time portal that wasn't working. It isn't like he was punching through thin air and voila, 853rd century.



Naw. He wasn't amped at all for one. And two he knew, because of him existing in other time periods and places, that this wasn't how things should be. He just had his potential unlocked again - becoming pure Photonic energy. Like in his Photon incarnation.



No he didn't. Sure, he was telling AS Supes, "This is foolish, I'm stronger than you. I'm faster than you. You're not even grown up yet" or somesuch thing. But he wasn't dominating him. And again, AS was a teenager and it was far before the sunamp. He was a vastly weaker incarnation of AS Supes and S1M did not trash him by any means.



You're right. Point withdrawn.



Noooo...He uses his Force Vision to boost Kyle's focus. He clearly needed all of the heroes that were there to be there.



Genis was holding back. It's stated on panel. They were still destroying planets with their power output. CIS off in the first scenario means Insane-level Genis feats come into play, and he assrapes.

Originally posted by fangirl101
since when did h/p Doomsday have a mind to shut down. And I thought he was immune to any kind of energy blast or manip. are you sure you re thinking about the right characters for the thread?

Um, everyone has a mind to shut down.

I didn't say anything about energy blasts taking out DD. I don't know where you got that from.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Meh if he was at his insane levels I don't see why he couldn't have dealt with sentry easily even while holding back He should have been able to.

Look at his respect thread, there are a many number of things that he could do and has done that would beat Sentry.

Originally posted by Mindset
He should have been able to.

Look at his respect thread, there are a many number of things that he could do and has done that would beat Sentry.

He casually desposes of him into a toilet and leaves...I mean, it isn't like he was in danger of being killed by Bob...

Originally posted by Enyalus
He casually desposes of him into a toilet and leaves...I mean, it isn't like he was in danger of being killed by Bob... I mean he could beat him w/o having to resort to bfr

Originally posted by Enyalus
Nope. He specifically said that the suit he wears stores power in his suit, which is how he's able to travel to places that don't have the Super Sun. And he tapped all of the stored power in his suit, thus greatly aging/weakening him. I do agree he was already weakening prior to that point. Couldn't even fly or use his HV. please reread that story. it states in black and white that S1M was tapping the energy in his cells to punch through time (which also caused minor retcons, come to think of it.)

had supes been using a suit's energy, he wouldn't have aged.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Naw. He wasn't amped at all for one.
He just had his potential unlocked again - becoming pure Photonic energy. Like in his Photon incarnation. so he was amped, in a way.

Originally posted by Enyalus
No he didn't. Sure, he was telling AS Supes, "This is foolish, I'm stronger than you. I'm faster than you. You're not even grown up yet" or somesuch thing. But he wasn't dominating him. And again, AS was a teenager and it was far before the sunamp. He was a vastly weaker incarnation of AS Supes and S1M did not trash him by any means. it took one hit from S1M to down AS supes. imo, that says enough. tack on his TP, and AS wouldn't have a prayer really.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Noooo...He uses his Force Vision to boost Kyle's focus. He clearly needed all of the heroes that were there to be there. yeah.... reread that story. once S1M cemented the construct, he could have not only contained solaris, but allowed it to burn itself out. granted, his concentration did have to remain on that task until solaris was beaten - however, he didn't 'need' any other help. none.

Originally posted by Enyalus
CIS off in the first scenario means Insane-level Genis feats come into play, and he assrapes. facepalm

Meh, fine. I'll reread the story....sometime.

Genis was fighting some Hourman clone, Timesomethingoranother. And instead of killing Genis, his attack makes him realize what is wrong with this version of his life and the universe, and gets him back to his full power. I wouldn't call it an amp.

Where do you keep getting this teenage as supes from?1mil casually disposed of the post sunamp as supes...

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Where do you keep getting this teenage as supes from?1mil casually disposed of the post sunamp as supes...

Naw. Post Sunamp AS Supes was pretending to be the unknown Supes from 4500 AD so that his younger self did not see him. Supes was a teenager when he helps bind the Chronovore.

yeah, he was in college or somesuch