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When he is trying to talk vader down before thier fight in rots, he says "only a sith deals in absolutes" as if the jedi are these morally relative being which is a buncha bull crap

just look at the jedi code

There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
(There is no chaos, there is harmony.)(*)
There is no death, there is the Force.


no emotion? no passion?

that seems like an absolute to me.

so why would obi wan make such a blunder?

What he means by a sith dealing with absolutes, means that there is a set way to act on a certain instance. Obiwans thinking is to address each case differently with his ethical/courteous/coherent/considerate/tolerant....etc manner.
There are no set rules to follow. Set rules leads to the darkside

Which is ironic considering, well, the line is self-contradicting.

Is this canon?


There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
(There is no chaos, there is harmony.)(*)
There is no death, there is the Force.

Yes


And even if it weren't, Yoda shows dealings in the absolute: "Do, or do not. There is no try."

Personally, I think that it is good ol' George creating, yet another paradox in the Star Wars Movies.

The list goes on...

Glad someone else thought of this too. I wondered about this comment the first time I saw EP3. I think it should be the other way around. Only a sith would speak of no moral absolutes.

That Jedi Code isn't canon.

However, being pedantic about what Obi-Wan said is extremely unhelpful. Obi-Wan was simply commenting on the ludicrous nature of Anakin's with me/against me line. Trying to extrapolate beyond that is pointless.

ya he wasn't trying to present a lecture he had prepared on thirty-seven very neatly hand-printed 3x5 note cards that would logically explain why anakin shouldn't fall to the dark side, he was pulling stuff out of his hat.

like bunnies

indeed.

beer

milk

Obi Wan's Magic Show.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
That Jedi Code isn't canon.

However, being pedantic about what Obi-Wan said is extremely unhelpful. Obi-Wan was simply commenting on the ludicrous nature of Anakin's with me/against me line. Trying to extrapolate beyond that is pointless.

if what you say is true then he wouldnt have generalized and said "only a sith" he would have said something about anakin in particular which he didnt.

and there is a point to this i am merely discussing one of many problems i have with the horrendous dialogue in episodes 1 2 3 thats one thing permitted and purpoted on this forum is it not?

What's not permitted then?

The contradiction is no mistake; The Jedi are narrow-minded and dogmatic. The Jedi Code is prohibitive and is filled with absolute rules that can't be broken.

When Anakin proclaims all who oppose him as his enemy. To Obi-Wan he sees this as a declarative worthy of a Sith, and he calls Anakin out on it...but in a manner that reaks of hypocrisy. That Jedi hypocrisy illustrates that he doesn't understand-or cannot understand-what has befallen Anakin.

Just cause a character says something doesn't make it true.

The Jedi Code is canon - it's spelled out in the Star Wars Encyclopedia.

It isn't

in the

movies.

When Obi-Wan is telling Anakin about his "new assignment" Anakin responds with, "You're asking me to do something against the Jedi Code, against the Republic, against a mentor and a friend...that's what's of place here."

They mention the Jedi Code in ROTS, discuss aspects of it when Anakin and Padme are traveling as refugees to Naboo in AOTC. Ellaborate on it the novelizations...what makes it, non-canon?

?

Originally posted by Anakin_the_Hutt
?

The Jedi code itself is never stated, just mentioned. We never hear it stated in the movies. Thus we are not sure how accurate the EU Jedi Code is.

By the way, don't double post with a question mark, some of us have jobs and other activities away from the forum, we will get back with a reply when we can my friend.

LOL Sure thing, friend...glad you responded.

The "Jedi Code" is canon. You are right, though - none of the films had any characters recite the Jedi Code - but the films do acknowledge the existance of the Jedi Code and actually call it by name. The Jedi Code is offical movie canon.

As far as what the Jedi Code is...you would have to look at the novelizations for brief references of the Code's contents (Prequel Novels of course) as a narrative to a scene or a character thinking to himself, whatever. But it's up to you if you consider the novels canon.

You guys consider the novels canon? Or are we only talking about the movies? The movie mentions "The Jedi Code." The novelization, in instances, will refer to "There is no emotion, there is peace." Or "There is no death, there is the Force."

Originally posted by Anakin_the_Hutt
The Jedi Code is canon - it's spelled out in the Star Wars Encyclopedia.
is this encyclopedia Lucas approved?

Originally posted by Jack Daniels
is this encyclopedia Lucas approved?

Who knows, it is a book so I doubt it.

Hahaha.

If it isn't from the movies or from Lucas himself you can't have any guarantee of it being canon.

You can, if it's not from the movies or novelisations, it's not canon. If the Code is in the novels, it's canon.

Originally posted by sweersa
The Jedi code itself is never stated, just mentioned. We never hear it stated in the movies. Thus we are not sure how accurate the EU Jedi Code is.


Star Wars is more than just the movies.

Ignoring the novels, comics etc is not only narrow-minded, but rather foolish, if you'll pardon my saying so. It's like watching a movie with the sound off. You don't enjoy the whole experience.

Plus the EU adds to SW and makes it much richer and more interesting.

For example, in the movie it looks like the Council just refused to give Anakin Master status because they didn't like him. In the novel it was explained that they couldn't as it would give him a vote in all the Council's decisions, which would be just like giving Palpatine a vote.

Likewise in the novel it is shown that Anakin was bitter about the 'Master' thing because the rank of Master would have allowed him to access restricted archives that may have given him the knowledge to save Padme. That's much better than the movie which makes it look like he was just mad that his pride was insulted.

Star Wars is more than the movies, but the canon isn't. Everything outside of the canon can be discussed in the EU forum.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Star Wars is more than just the movies.

Ignoring the novels, comics etc is not only narrow-minded, but rather foolish, if you'll pardon my saying so. It's like watching a movie with the sound off. You don't enjoy the whole experience.

Plus the EU adds to SW and makes it much richer and more interesting.

For example, in the movie it looks like the Council just refused to give Anakin Master status because they didn't like him. In the novel it was explained that they couldn't as it would give him a vote in all the Council's decisions, which would be just like giving Palpatine a vote.

Likewise in the novel it is shown that Anakin was bitter about the 'Master' thing because the rank of Master would have allowed him to access restricted archives that may have given him the knowledge to save Padme. That's much better than the movie which makes it look like he was just mad that his pride was insulted.

I totally agree. EU is great...but it isn't canon. As much fun as the EU is to make fun of sometimes, I accept that it is official and acceptable at times, but that doesn't make it canon, canon is what I am talking about.

I like some EU, but if you considered all of it canon SW would have a massive amount of contradictions due to the diversity and many different authors of various skills and experience with the EU.

I am a canon! just ask wifey..lol?..jus kiddin anyways EU is fun ..not just to make fun of ...but really interesting reading when the wife is crashed...lol...but canon after Queeq made his ruling..lol..I googled and he is right...novels of movies + movies only...they went thru alot of werk to keep the SW novels canon....but I am still googling the issue on SW canon..cant find much Lucas quotes..??that should make it canon also in SW universe....the only movie novels I have read are PM once and ROTS audio...which that rocked...gave alot of insight to certain things...but EU doesnt apply to the real deal...and thats why we are here right..not hanging out in EU fantasy..lol...just my current drunken thought from googled stuff..lol..peace all...
edit:
along time ago I read ANH
and kick azz paperback cartoon(comic style) version of ESB...none of the rest though

There's quite a lot of it going around as well. hard (or expensive) to keep track.

wish I still had my cartoon comic of ESB bet that would be worth some $$$ now....my parents bought it 4 me right around the time the movie came out...musta read it 100 times..(that was after I realized darth vader wasnt the monster in my closet...lol)

Originally posted by Jack Daniels
wish I still had my cartoon comic of ESB bet that would be worth some $$$ now....my parents bought it 4 me right around the time the movie came out...musta read it 100 times..(that was after I realized darth vader wasnt the monster in my closet...lol)

You should read the ROTJ novel. Uncle Owen is Obi-Wan's brother in it. Oh yeah, did I forget to mention the novels are canon?

Canon and contradictory. Welcome to the Lucas Universe.

U HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING!? There has to be a canon way out of that...oh man that is f'ed

You're talking about Lucas here. He has the Indy way: making things up as he goes.

yeah spielberg would agree..lol

Originally posted by Jack Daniels
yeah spielberg would agree..lol

Spielberg isn't perfect. Remember Indy 4? Yeah...don't put all that on George.

People like to use GL as a scapegoat these days. Makes me sick.

Well... it's not enirely silly. After all, let's see.

The George Lucas Films in the last ten years:
TPM
AOTC
ROTS
Indy4

The Spielberg films in the last 10 years:
Saving private Ryan
AI
Minority Report
Catch me if you can
The Terminal
War of the Worls
Munich
Indy4.

Hmmm... the overall quality tips to Spielberg. Only three lesser films out of 8... Lucas's films all suffer from the same ailments...

Originally posted by queeq
Well... it's not enirely silly. After all, let's see.

The George Lucas Films in the last ten years:
TPM
AOTC
ROTS
Indy4

The Spielberg films in the last 10 years:
Saving private Ryan
AI
Minority Report
Catch me if you can
The Terminal
War of the Worls
Munich
Indy4.

Hmmm... the overall quality tips to Spielberg. Only three lesser films out of 8... Lucas's films all suffer from the same ailments...

Steven has always directed more than George. Lucas is more of a businessman, look at all of his companies, he directs on the side, so of course Steve is going to have a much larger library of films.

George is an easy target so people love to bash him. The funny side is he doesn't care. I wouldn't either if I was as successful as him, who would?

As a creator he can do anything he wants, if someone doesn't like it they don't have to buy it or support it. But people do, espicially kids, like us many years ago. Star Wars is still selling, and kids still love it. The main reason so many older SW fans have the PT is becuase they were not kids like me when they saw them. But of course they were kids when the OT came out.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
That Jedi Code isn't canon.

Very true, which makes this whole thing pointless.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
However, being pedantic about what Obi-Wan said is extremely unhelpful. Obi-Wan was simply commenting on the ludicrous nature of Anakin's with me/against me line. Trying to extrapolate beyond that is pointless.

Its not being pedantic.

1. Lucas can't write dialogue for beans.

2. Obi-Wan's statement is contradictory and such is worth noting, but it really has no further meaning, because (see #1), so it it can't really have any further point.

Originally posted by Ordo


1. Lucas can't write dialogue for beans.


We all know you are a great writer, and we look forward to seeing your version of the PT scripts.

Originally posted by sweersa
As a creator he can do anything he wants, if someone doesn't like it they don't have to buy it or support it. But people do, espicially kids, like us many years ago. Star Wars is still selling, and kids still love it. The main reason so many older SW fans have the PT is becuase they were not kids like me when they saw them. But of course they were kids when the OT came out.
And I will never forget going to theatre for ANH....sad maybe but true one of the most exciting nights of my childhood..lol..then when ESB came out I remember the day we drove to the theatre just to find out what the date it was coming out...now days u just log on moviefone or google..lol..back then we had to drive down...wonder why we just didnt get a paper? Think my parents were just teasing me...

They were.

They did take me to see it though so it was all worth it! makes me wanna watch ANH and ESB 2day...all I have on my pitiful agenda 4 the day is more cleaning..lol..maybe send out a resume or two to make unemployment happy...nobody hires A+ bench techs anymore...should never wasted my $ getting certified...Though it is a lifetime cert...The day is coming (probably distant though) where Im gonna take bartending classes...there IS ALWAYS a need for them!!!Already have a possible future job doing that..it's sort of promised on a mutual drunken nite just dont know when cause other things have to come first and plans can change... anyways what was I saying..lol...SW thats it! I cant wait to go back 2 werk!...If it wasnt for the milk bar I might lose my insanity..hehe

Originally posted by Ordo
Its not being pedantic.


By an absolutely enormous margin- yes it is.

Originally posted by Jack Daniels
And I will never forget going to theatre for ANH....sad maybe but true one of the most exciting nights of my childhood..lol..then when ESB came out I remember the day we drove to the theatre just to find out what the date it was coming out...now days u just log on moviefone or google..lol..back then we had to drive down...wonder why we just didnt get a paper? Think my parents were just teasing me...

Could you call them?

I do remember the theater was not open when we went...there were no cars in the lot place looked closed...dont know about all that I dont even know if we had a phone?..lol...long time ago...just SW memories never fade with me anyways

Originally posted by Ushgarak
By an absolutely enormous margin- yes it is.

So dialogue and its intent really doesn't matter? Phrasing doesn't matter? Should we avoid looking at everything in film beyond face value?

Originally posted by queeq
Obi Wan's Magic Show.
is that where Obi-Wan cuts off dudes arm and its like now you see it now u dont..lol... or when he just disappears and comes back in ESB glowing..or..I better stop

Some Jedi deal in black and white. period. *Shrug*

Originally posted by Anakin_the_Hutt
When Obi-Wan is telling Anakin about his "new assignment" Anakin responds with, "You're asking me to do something against the Jedi Code, against the Republic, against a mentor and a friend...that's what's of place here."


Anakin is a hypocrite to be complaining about going against the Jedi Code when he's been going against it dozens of times. He's also going against the Republic by helping his "friend and mentor" eliminate the Jedi and abolish the entire government. just so he could have the power to save Padme.

Originally posted by Forcewielder
Anakin is a hypocrite to be complaining about going against the Jedi Code when he's been going against it dozens of times. He's also going against the Republic by helping his "friend and mentor" eliminate the Jedi and abolish the entire government. just so he could have the power to save Padme.

Seeing as Palpatine is still Senator, and still has control over the Republic, Anakin's the only Jedi to stay true to the Republic. True the Senate is corrupt and ruled by a evil dictator, but the Jedi always talk about how they "serve the Republic"...bollocks

The Jedi serve the government that gives them the best councel houses...

I can't remember the exact quote, but i think it's the truest quote in the whole SW saga, Palpatine says that Jedi and Sith are the same...

Imo, the Jedi were loyal to the Republic. Before Palpatine got his claws in to it, yes, it was a bureaucratic mess, but it was still fairly democratic and peaceful (the republic, not the senate).

Palpatine slowly began to take over, and he distorted the Republic and the Senate just enough for it not to be what it was when the Jedi were loyal.

Anakin was loyal to one thing and one thing only. Padme. He is a hypocrite, imo. He doesn't care about the "Jedi Code" unless it suits his own ends. He's the one who decided to betray the Jedi and become Palpatine's apprentice. He would have easily betrayed Palpatine too, as he told Obi-Wan about his new empire.

He would have got away with it too, if it wasn't for that pesky Jedi Master...

Is the new Clone Wars cartoon canon? How about the old one? And The Force Unleashed? After all Lucas had some involvment in all of them.

Originally posted by ares834
Is the new Clone Wars cartoon canon? How about the old one? And The Force Unleashed? After all Lucas had some involvment in all of them.

They are not the movies so no.

We are as yet in the dark about their official status.

If The Clone Wars is canon, then canon would be very very confusing. ROTS never mentioned, even a fleeting insinuation that Anakin ever had a padawan.

Although, if they kill Ahsoka, it would work. if you watched ROTS alone you'd never guess that Qui-Gon ever existed...

...Lucas never did announce if its canon or not yet though, right?

just ****ing kill everyone in cw. and do it now.

...mass killing before Order 66? I don't think GL would let that happen.

Originally posted by Jaeh.is.Awesome
...mass killing before Order 66? I don't think GL would let that happen.

Geonosis.

Originally posted by Jaeh.is.Awesome
...mass killing before Order 66? I don't think GL would let that happen.

Tusken Camp...perhaps thats not a great example though

just have anakin rape everyone. they will die of boredom.

Originally posted by sweersa
Geonosis.

not counted, its war.

I did kinda forget about that.

Originally posted by CadoAngelus
Tusken Camp...perhaps thats not a great example though

eh, just one clan... tribe... Not like its a whole world or something...



imho, The Clone Wars shouldn't be canon. That would just mess up everything.

YEah I agree.. but who are we, eh?

Originally posted by queeq
YEah I agree.. but who are we, eh?

A couple.

Originally posted by queeq
YEah I agree.. but who are we, eh?

devoted lovers

Originally posted by CadoAngelus
devoted lovers

sounds weird.