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I nod to Hewhoknowsall. From what I read in that thread, ppl believe Galactus can beat three or four regular Celestials. A single average Celestial made three skyfathers look like insects. I doubt that the difference in power between skyfathers and Galactus is nearly THAT severe, but people in general seem to believe that Odin and skyfathers are definitely weaker than Galactus. How many can a sated Galactus beat before they take him down?

Without Odin, they cannot win. With Odin they might have a shot to hurt him. Also, it depends how strong Galactus is. If he is hungry they will kill him. If he is okay(not hungry not full) they got a shot. If he is full, then may all of Hell run in fear because they will meet the Skyfathers.

Is it just Galactus alone (no prep/tech)?

Also, where would we put Annihilus with the Q bands at, and a Watcher? Because Galactus basically took both out with a non-concentrated blast (he killed the Watcher, and Annihilus came out after the blast was done in the carcass of a ship weakened).

uumm .. all of them ?

Originally posted by Red Hulk
Is it just Galactus alone (no prep/tech)?

Also, where would we put Annihilus with the Q bands at, and a Watcher? Because Galactus basically took both out with a non-concentrated blast (he killed the Watcher, and Annihilus came out after the blast was done in the carcass of a ship weakened). Galactus is written consistently decent since Galactus the Devourer mini sage.

Originally posted by kgkg
Galactus is written consistently decent since Galactus the Devourer mini sage. McDuffie had his way with him... but the reason that he has been written consistently, is because he hasn't really been portrayed as fighting hungry since then.

Also, I don't get why he doesn't whip out some shit from his Worldship though. Doom said that the ship alone has stuff that could conquer entire galaxies, and Galactus also has a 'wishing' machine if you will. Meh.

How many? I don't know, as many as they come until he gets hungry.

Depends.

One of the trinity that Split the Source in Two should be enough.

Does anyone but me think it'd be a good story if the Avengers had Galactus' planet-sized spaceship as their base? I think there was a DC story where some team beat a Galactus-ripoff and used his spaceship for their base.

if Galactus is bloodlusted, then this is spite, he could beat ALL the Skyfathers, ridiculously easily.

if Galactus isn't looking for the fight, it'll stalemate, as he'll just consume their dimensions and destroy their powerbase.

if Galactus is already weak ... they might scare him off, but they can't beat him.

If we take the showing against Arishem (since it's the celestials compared to Skyfathers) as a way to calculate the powerlevel of the skyfathers (I know that is not a accurate way to do it since Odin has feats far beyond what was showed in the battle against Arishem), then I would say that you can take all the skyfathers on earth and throw them against Galactus they will get slaughtered and their realms devoured.

However if we suppose that every single skyfather works on the same powerlevel as Odin did at his prime (galaxies destroyed in battles, Asgard moved etc) then it can probably range from anywhere around 2-5 skyfathers and up depending on Galactus powerlevel and on how much we weigth Kubiks words concening Galactus.

What exactly was Marvel's motivation for turning Odin & other skyfathers into mere "local gods" and taking them down so many rungs on the cosmic ladder? Given that they were much higher up in the Silver Age. I don't see why skyfathers shouldn't be Galactus' equal.

Originally posted by UKR
What exactly was Marvel's motivation for turning Odin & other skyfathers into mere "local gods" and taking them down so many rungs on the cosmic ladder? Given that they were much higher up in the Silver Age.

Probably the same as with Silver Age Superman to much power, I mean in those days half of Odin's power could destroy the universe maybe that's a bit of a overkill for a being that is working with Mortals, and is maximum dealing with something up to a galaxy level threat.

Originally posted by UKR
I don't see why skyfathers shouldn't be Galactus' equal.

Because that is what Kirby decided would be the case when he introduced Galactus. Remember it was never Kirby's intention to involve Galactus on the level that he has been in comics since his creation. From what I have read Kirby intended him to be something along the lines of the Celestials but he was simply to popular with the readers.

galactus would crush all of them

Id say that Galactus can take quite a number of them out. Watchers are at least skyfather level and Galactus while extremely weak took one out pretty easily.

Galactus take all of them

Originally posted by UKR
What exactly was Marvel's motivation for turning Odin & other skyfathers into mere "local gods" and taking them down so many rungs on the cosmic ladder? Given that they were much higher up in the Silver Age. I don't see why skyfathers shouldn't be Galactus' equal.

yep as Utragita mentioned Kirby intended for Galactus to be above all the "mythic gods." I put several Kirby quotes in Galactus' wiki entry, if you want to read them exactly.

We essentially see a cosmic pantheon developing with the introduction of Death in the mid-70s. This is Marvel editors taking a step back and saying "ok how do these concepts of time, space, etc. actually operate" and the answer was to have what we now call "the abstracts."

You're right Odin used to be much, much more powerful in the silver age. But as mentioned Kirby wanted a unique, singular character that answered to no one, and was above all morals. These traits automatically made him higher than Odin by concept, and subsequently other writers continued that notion.

The introduction of the celestials finally solidified the relegation of skyfathers to above top tiers, but still far below the cosmic beings.

as always depends on the level of galactus. imo, he'd have to be VERY powerful to achieve what some here are saying. mephisto has proven to be equal to him at some level and he had to threaten to tear apart mephisto's realm to overcome him. agamotto has done something similar. hell, ego has as well. the same old excuse will come up--he was weak, or hungry or . . .

as usual, people don't give 'skyfathers' enough credit, or give galactus too much. personally, i'd LOVE to see odin vs galactus at some point. i've a feeling it would be a hell of a battle . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
as always depends on the level of galactus. imo, he'd have to be VERY powerful to achieve what some here are saying. mephisto has proven to be equal to him at some level and he had to threaten to tear apart mephisto's realm to overcome him. agamotto has done something similar. hell, ego has as well. the same old excuse will come up--he was weak, or hungry or . . .

as usual, people don't give 'skyfathers' enough credit, or give galactus too much. personally, i'd LOVE to see odin vs galactus at some point. i've a feeling it would be a hell of a battle . . . Odin is nothing to a Celestial, Galactus is at least on a Celestial's level under normal circumstances.

Problem with that fight is, it was more that Mephisto seemed insanely powerful (IMO, what he should be in his realm), not the level where Thor can beat him..

I mean, that battle was cracking reality, and Galactus started to consume his realm to stop the universe from crumbling as a result of their battle.

Originally posted by Mindset
Odin is nothing to a Celestial, Galactus is at least on a Celestial's level under normal circumstances.

all due respect--that's flat out wrong. under normal circumstances, celestials>>galactus. given average showings that is. unless you think thanos can knock a celestial on its arse as easily . . . and THAT was a 'well fed' galactus . . . i won't bother comparing high and low feats of odin and galactus. not necessary and it never does any good due to the variabilty of their portrayals. everyone goes by that one skyfather/celestial showing in thor 300. anyone ever mention that maybe, just MAYBE THAT showing was pis . . .?

and mephisto can and has been portrayed in many ways as well. just as thor has at times challenged him, he's melted ss effortlessly, cruched thor AND all the avengers without effort and obliterated strange in hell.

if this is a 'general version' of galactus, one odin level being would be enough challenge him--not beat him necessarily, but challenge him for certain.

Originally posted by leonidas
all due respect--that's flat out wrong. under normal circumstances, celestials>>galactus. given average showings that is. unless you think thanos can knock a celestial on its arse as easily . . . and THAT was a 'well fed' galactus . . . i won't bother comparing high and low feats of odin and galactus. not necessary and it never does any good due to the variabilty of their portrayals. everyone goes by that one skyfather/celestial showing in thor 300. anyone ever mention that maybe, just MAYBE THAT showing was pis . . .?

and mephisto can and has been portrayed in many ways as well. just as thor has at times challenged him, he's melted ss effortlessly, cruched thor AND all the avengers without effort and obliterated strange in hell.

if this is a 'general version' of galactus, one odin level being would be enough challenge him--not beat him necessarily, but challenge him for certain. When Thanos knocked over Galactus and didn't do any actually damage you mean, yea he was hungry and pretty weak.


What exactly is the general version of Galactus?

Originally posted by Mindset
When Thanos knocked over Galactus and didn't do any actually damage you mean, yea he was hungry and pretty weak.


What exactly is the general version of Galactus?
The one that gets owned by thing, held by Annihilus, knocked over by Thanos, trapped, maimed, hungry, out prepped by Tyrant.

Originally posted by fangirl101
The one that gets owned by thing, held by Annihilus, knocked over by Thanos, trapped, maimed, hungry, out prepped by Tyrant. *sigh*

Please have an intelligent post the next time you reply to me.


You even give widely varied levels of power in your estimation of general Galactus...

Originally posted by Mindset
*sigh*

Please have an intelligent post the next time you reply to me.


You even give widely varied levels of power in your estimation of general Galactus...
I know. That was just to irk you.

sure

Originally posted by Mindset
When Thanos knocked over Galactus and didn't do any actually damage you mean, yea he was hungry and pretty weak.


What exactly is the general version of Galactus?

all due respect--that's flat out wrong--again. i could post the scan where thanos observed that galactus was fell nourished. i won't bother. and a general level is the galactus that is most often seen. i can post a sky-father level being (surtur) destroying a galaxy. how many times have we seen g do that? i'd love for you post post all your "galactus=celestial level" feats. you know, just for kicks.

skyfathers get a bad wrap. but everyone--including galactus--has bad showings. LOADS of them. and any showings that put him at 'celestial level' are very clearly the minority. so i go back to my original supposition--it would take a VERY powerful galactus to do what so many here are claiming he could do. a galactus we do NOT see very often (at all) in books.

I'll try to do an approximation of how often Galactus is actually impressive and how often he jobs when I revise his feats.

Originally posted by Bentley
I'll try to do an approximation of how often Galactus is actually impressive and how often he jobs when I revise his feats.
He's hardly impressive in battle. He got pwned by T and A whom Silver Surfer defeated.

Originally posted by fangirl101
He's hardly impressive in battle. He got pwned by T and A whom Silver Surfer defeated.

By a Plot Device called the Crunch? If you failed to notice it Tenebrous and Aegis completely manhandle Surfer prior to him riding the crunch.

Originally posted by leonidas
all due respect--that's flat out wrong--again. i could post the scan where thanos observed that galactus was fell nourished. i won't bother. and a general level is the galactus that is most often seen. i can post a sky-father level being (surtur) destroying a galaxy. how many times have we seen g do that? i'd love for you post post all your "galactus=celestial level" feats. you know, just for kicks.

skyfathers get a bad wrap. but everyone--including galactus--has bad showings. LOADS of them. and any showings that put him at 'celestial level' are very clearly the minority. so i go back to my original supposition--it would take a VERY powerful galactus to do what so many here are claiming he could do. a galactus we do NOT see very often (at all) in books.

A celestial has been "harmed" by Thor's god blast. Thanos beats Thor.

Originally posted by fangirl101
He's hardly impressive in battle. He got pwned by T and A whom Silver Surfer defeated.

Its true that Galactus is not much of a warrior, Galan was holding his ground against Tenebrous.

A hell of a showing for Surfer though.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Probably the same as with Silver Age Superman to much power, I mean in those days half of Odin's power could destroy the universe maybe that's a bit of a overkill for a being that is working with Mortals, and is maximum dealing with something up to a galaxy level threat.



Because that is what Kirby decided would be the case when he introduced Galactus. Remember it was never Kirby's intention to involve Galactus on the level that he has been in comics since his creation. From what I have read Kirby intended him to be something along the lines of the Celestials but he was simply to popular with the readers.



Half of Odin's power could destroy the universe? Since when?

Originally posted by leonidas
all due respect--that's flat out wrong--again. i could post the scan where thanos observed that galactus was fell nourished. i won't bother. and a general level is the galactus that is most often seen. i can post a sky-father level being (surtur) destroying a galaxy. how many times have we seen g do that? i'd love for you post post all your "galactus=celestial level" feats. you know, just for kicks.

skyfathers get a bad wrap. but everyone--including galactus--has bad showings. LOADS of them. and any showings that put him at 'celestial level' are very clearly the minority. so i go back to my original supposition--it would take a VERY powerful galactus to do what so many here are claiming he could do. a galactus we do NOT see very often (at all) in books.

A assesment made in the Astral Plan to be correct, earlier in the story before Galactus stats that he depleted vital energy to destroy all of Thanos Forcefields.

When have we seen A Celestial destroying a Galaxy? Never if I recall correctly, do we however have the statement from Kubik concerning the Celestials and Galactus that places them above him in terms of power? Yes we do.

The Celestials when looking at it have done surprinsingly little themselves, I can think of five Certain incidents showing their power and that's it. The Battle against the Destroyer, The Battle Against Thor, The closing of the access to Franklins Pocket universe, Throwing around planets in IG Saga, The confrontations with the three skyfathers.

The real difference between the Celestials and Galactus is that Galactus has many more appearances then the Celestials if the Celestials had been used to the extent that Galactus has then I would say that they would have some rather bad feats too.

Originally posted by UKR
Half of Odin's power could destroy the universe? Since when?

Since before the retcon of Odin's evil half, changing the Evil to have been tapping into the Aspects infinity's power, not using Odin's power. Anyway that is how I understood it...

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Without Odin, they cannot win. With Odin they might have a shot to hurt him. Also, it depends how strong Galactus is. If he is hungry they will kill him. If he is okay(not hungry not full) they got a shot. If he is full, then may all of Hell run in fear because they will meet the Skyfathers.

Ya know this is kinda laughable. Skyfathers cant beat galactus but sentery can stalemate him lol. Or at least some think he can stalemate him.

Originally posted by Utrigita
A assesment made in the Astral Plan to be correct, earlier in the story before Galactus stats that he depleted vital energy to destroy all of Thanos Forcefields.

When have we seen A Celestial destroying a Galaxy? Never if I recall correctly, do we however have the statement from Kubik concerning the Celestials and Galactus that places them above him in terms of power? Yes we do.

The Celestials when looking at it have done surprinsingly little themselves, I can think of five Certain incidents showing their power and that's it. The Battle against the Destroyer, The Battle Against Thor, The closing of the access to Franklins Pocket universe, Throwing around planets in IG Saga, The confrontations with the three skyfathers.

The real difference between the Celestials and Galactus is that Galactus has many more appearances then the Celestials if the Celestials had been used to the extent that Galactus has then I would say that they would have some rather bad feats too.

so he goes from 'well nourished' to . . . less than ( ) --to the point where thanos can send him flying--because he used power to break thanos's forcefield?? and you think he can somehow stay strong enough (assuming he started at that high a level to begin with . . .) to destroy multiple skyfathers?

your observation is more of an indictment than i could have come up with on my own . . .

and of course the celestials have a couple low showings as well--if you're talking about celestials 'in general' as opposed to singular celestials. i never claimed different. the thread wants to know how many skyfathers g could beat. at average showings, he'd have his hands full with one.

Originally posted by Bentley
A celestial has been "harmed" by Thor's god blast. Thanos beats Thor.




anyway . . .

if you really wanted to 'hurt' me with your argument you should have used the sue example instead, btw . . .

Originally posted by leonidas


anyway . . .

if you really wanted to 'hurt' me with your argument you should have used the sue example instead, btw . . .

Well, that would've been clear PIS. Also, lets face the facts that the godblast has never been compared with Thanos. Is within the realm of possibilities that one of Thanos best shots -after his upgrades- are in godblast levels.

Of course, I'm getting that out of nowhere, but its for the sake of the argument.

Galactus has been getting pretty badly mistreated by the writers. Same thing with Eternity. The guy is meant to be the living embodiment of the universe, and hes consistantly made to be the damsel in distress. Does anyone have a single impressive showing from eternity?

Originally posted by leonidas
so he goes from 'well nourished' to . . . less than ( ) --to the point where thanos can send him flying--because he used power to break thanos's forcefield?? and you think he can somehow stay strong enough (assuming he started at that high a level to begin with . . .) to destroy multiple skyfathers?

your observation is more of an indictment than i could have come up with on my own . . .

and of course the celestials have a couple low showings as well--if you're talking about celestials 'in general' as opposed to singular celestials. i never claimed different. the thread wants to know how many skyfathers g could beat. at average showings, he'd have his hands full with one.

I have no idea on how he moved from well fed to Low on Power, all I can say is that perhaps Thanos assesment wasn't entirely correct based on the sudden drop in power Because somehow based on Galactus previous showings I find it hard to believe that he went from Well fed to Starving by destroying Thanos forcefields. Annihilation Six where Galactus badly weakened destroyed a watcher, last time I checked a Watcher was above Skyfather...

I just find it strange that you are asking for a feat for Galactus destroying a Galaxy on his own when the Celestials have failed to done that too... I can however provide a Scan of Galactus teleporting a Galaxy...

Few and very far between. Can you mention a low feat for them beside the obvious with Sue? And the average Skyfather is what to be exact at Odin's level? Ore at Zeus level when he couldn't defeat Zuras?

Originally posted by Utrigita
I have no idea on how he moved from well fed to Low on Power, all I can say is that perhaps Thanos assesment wasn't entirely correct based on the sudden drop in power Because somehow based on Galactus previous showings I find it hard to believe that he went from Well fed to Starving by destroying Thanos forcefields. Annihilation Six where Galactus badly weakened destroyed a watcher, last time I checked a Watcher was above Skyfather...

untrue, imo. watchers have deferred to odin and been seen as equal. likewise, odin and dormammu have been treated as equals, and mephisto has been shown to actually be afraid of odin . . .

all that is NOT to say that odin doesn't have low feats--he clearly does. lots of them . . . i wouldn't use 'mutli-verse shaking odin' in this thread anymore than i would universe devouring galactus, or 'full-power' galactus. all's i'm saying is that going by their most often portrayals, odin would give galactus a hell of a battle.



i'm actually not asking for anything from you, u. i'm very well acquainted with all characters being discussed here.



as for average skfather--that's a bit more difficult to determine. is odin TRULY the most powerful? shrug

i've never SEEN that stated and the fact that set has challenged him and so has perrikus's people would lead me to think that if he IS more powerful than the standard, it's not by much.

as for low showings for celestials: didn't 2 of them prove unable to defeat ego at some point? i'm sure there are others that i'm forgetting aside from those already mentioned.

I think the Big G is getting the short end of the stick here. I mean granted, that Galactus has portrayed quite a few times as being hungry and hence not as powerful as he should be, but that shouldnt be the default version of him used in debates. From all indications and references as far as the cosmic hierachy ladder goes, the Big G is a character that is quite a few steps above skyfather level characters when well fed.

Originally posted by leonidas
untrue, imo. watchers have deferred to odin and been seen as equal. likewise, odin and dormammu have been treated as equals, and mephisto has been shown to actually be afraid of odin . . .

The day the Celestials begin to regard the Skyfathers as equal and Kubik comments that the skyfathers are above him let me know. the same Mephisto that at one point of time trapped Odin for three years?

Originally posted by leonidas
all that is NOT to say that odin doesn't have low feats--he clearly does. lots of them . . . i wouldn't use 'mutli-verse shaking odin' in this thread anymore than i would universe devouring galactus, or 'full-power' galactus. all's i'm saying is that going by their most often portrayals, odin would give galactus a hell of a battle.

Because they are being used in two entirely different situations, Odin isn't used as the menace from which Earth most protect themselves against quiet the contrary he is the one that saves earth, he is (if I may be so blunt) destined to win, Galactus being turned into a Villian and taken down from the position Kirby intended for him, is however destined to lose.

Originally posted by leonidas
i'm actually not asking for anything from you, u. i'm very well acquainted with all characters being discussed here.

Okay, I just still find it a strange request.

Originally posted by leonidas
as for average skfather--that's a bit more difficult to determine. is odin TRULY the most powerful? shrug

He is certainly the one being shown most and the one that has shown the greatest level of power from my point of view.

Agreed, but that doesn't per say means that all the other skyfathers are operating on the same level as he is

Originally posted by leonidas
i've never SEEN that stated and the fact that set has challenged him and so has perrikus's people would lead me to think that if he IS more powerful than the standard, it's not by much.

Just because you are the most powerful it doesn't mean that people wouldn't challenge you...

Originally posted by leonidas
as for low showings for celestials: didn't 2 of them prove unable to defeat ego at some point? i'm sure there are others that i'm forgetting aside from those already mentioned.

Are you calling a Stalemate Against Ego in a alternate universe a bad Showing? Then I guess that the Celestials being defeated in Earth X was a bad showing too?

Originally posted by ultimatethor
I think the Big G is getting the short end of the stick here. I mean granted, that Galactus has portrayed quite a few times as being hungry and hence not as powerful as he should be, but that shouldnt be the default version of him used in debates. From all indications and references as far as the cosmic hierachy ladder goes, the Big G is a character that is quite a few steps above skyfather level characters when well fed.

you're confusing position and power. galactus has been shown to be integral to the universe. his 'station' is clearly much greater than odin's. that doesn't mean (by necessity) that galactus>odin.

Thanos isn't that weak. He is above herald level, after all, though not skyfather class. I think that if Thanos put all his power into his very best shot and hit a very hungry Galactus with it then it would certainly be enough to send Big G flying.

Originally posted by leonidas
you're confusing position and power. galactus has been shown to be integral to the universe. his 'station' is clearly much greater than odin's. that doesn't mean (by necessity) that galactus>odin.

Not really. Im using references from beings like Eternity that are directly concerning his power and instances like the Celestials incident where skyfathers were portrayed at a far lower powerlevel on the hierachy.


P.S- For that thanos incident, it might have been a low feat but the Big G did have him begging for his life ( even after he activated all his shields) in one hit. Technically ( Save the thanos blasting him part) he delt with thanos much easier than Odin.

Originally posted by Utrigita
The day the Celestials begin to regard the Skyfathers as equal and Kubik comments that the skyfathers are above him let me know. the same Mephisto that at one point of time trapped Odin for three years?

see above.





i've no idea what you're talking about.





s'ok. i find it strange you find my reguest strange when i didn't request anything . . .





i think i said that . . .





er, ok . . .?





yeah i'm calling BOTH of those a low showing (like i'd call galactus being forced to dodge high evolutionary's attack--for fear of being devolved) a low showing for him. but what's more, i'm calling those showings irrelevent. actually didn't realize that ego was alternate or i wouldn't have brought it up. (hell, an alternate ego was ripped in half by GLADIATOR!) anything in earth x is irrelevent to me, as is all the other alternate stuff which could both be good AND bad for galactus.

bottom line is simple, imho--as general portrayals go, galactus is NOT usually depicted (through feats) to be very far (if at all) above skyfathers. his station is substantially higher, but station does NOT equate to power necessarily, and as general portrayals go, imo, celestials>galactus.

you are clearly entitled to feel otherwise. just based on historical portrayals and accumulated feats, i don't know how you can.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Not really. Im using references from beings like Eternity that are directly concerning his power.

really? wanna share some of those references? most deal with his station in the hierarchy. i'd love to see one of these references of yours that discusses his power in the manner you mean.

Originally posted by UKR
Thanos isn't that weak. He is above herald level, after all, though not skyfather class. I think that if Thanos put all his power into his very best shot and hit a very hungry Galactus with it then it would certainly be enough to send Big G flying.

cool. now all's you gotta do is prove it was a 'very hungry galactus' he sent flying.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
( Save the thanos blasting him part) he delt with thanos much easier than Odin.

that much is true--at least he dealt with him quicker. but that's ABC logic and needs to be taken as such. and again--i'm not saying odin>galactus. i'm saying that based on all the accumulated evidence between the 2, galactus (as we usually see him) would not have an easy time disposing of odin. at all.

you feel different, i'm cool with that.

and just out of curiosity, who's the most powerful being galactus has convincingly defeated 1on1? anyone?

holy quitruple posts bada!!

Originally posted by leonidas
see above.


See what above?


Originally posted by leonidas
i've no idea what you're talking about.


Are Odin and Galactus not being used in two entirely different situations when a comic is concerning the possible destruction of earth? Odin is the valiant defender, Galactus is the Evil Destroyer...


Originally posted by leonidas
s'ok. i find it strange you find my reguest strange when i didn't request anything . . .


If I recall correctly you on the previous page asked mindship to show you a incident of Galactus destroying a Galaxy with the reference that Surtur had performed that.


Originally posted by leonidas
i think i said that . . .


You say he is the one that has shown most, but from my point of view not saying whether ore not he can be used as a way to judge the others.


Originally posted by leonidas
er, ok . . .?


Galactus is more Powerful then Thanos? Agreed? Good. Thanos deliberately challenged Galactus in the previous mentioned encounter. The Fantastic four has challenged Galactus etc, Comics are filled with beings that challenges those that are above them.


Originally posted by leonidas
yeah i'm calling BOTH of those a low showing (like i'd call galactus being forced to dodge high evolutionary's attack--for fear of being devolved) a low showing for him. but what's more, i'm calling those showings irrelevent. actually didn't realize that ego was alternate or i wouldn't have brought it up. (hell, an alternate ego was ripped in half by GLADIATOR!) anything in earth x is irrelevent to me, as is all the other alternate stuff which could both be good AND bad for galactus.

You call avoiding a attack a low showing?

Originally posted by leonidas
bottom line is simple, imho--as general portrayals go, galactus is NOT usually depicted (through feats) to be very far (if at all) above skyfathers. his station is substantially higher, but station does NOT equate to power necessarily, and as general portrayals go, imo, celestials>galactus.

Fine Bottom Line I disagree the only Skyfather that we have a idea concerning the powerlevel of is Odin the rest is a big pile of undefined skyfathers, all with the same mentioned in their bio on marvel Appendix that they have the same power as Odin even though they have no feats to solidate that claim. His Station is combined with his powerlevel as shown when he goes to the Living Tribunal to cancel the restrictions on the gems. Imo Galactus > Celestial

Originally posted by leonidas
you are clearly entitled to feel otherwise. just based on historical portrayals and accumulated feats, i don't know how you can.

I would say the same to you. But we are each entitled to oure own opinion.

Originally posted by Utrigita
See what above?

station v power post.









g is shown as 'good' as often as not. and when has odin saved earth?

you seem to be saying that they are close because odin is the . . . good guy?




i mentioned it. don't think i requested a similar feat. pointmess anyway. it was to show that skyfathers (aside from odin) have destroyed galaxies.



so if by your own admission you can't judge the levels of others, how can you (if not you, others) claim g can beat multiples of skyfathers? it would be a rare galactus who could take out multiples of odin, that is for certain.









when he is forced to dodge an attack from someone of HE's status as opposed to being able to shrug it off? absolutely . . .





cool. then it's pointless to ask how many skyfathers he could beat. i'd say ONE odin would challenge him. him beating multiple odins would be extremely rare and i don't think i've seen an on-panel g (except MAYBE the one that was abttling tyrant . . .) who could do that . . .



fair enuff.

oh--can't recall if it was you or not who mentioned mephisto 'imprisoning' odin . . . this is EXACTLY how false info is spread on the forum. mephisto did indeed imprison odin's soul. some context would help though.

he was ONLY ABLE TO DO SO BECAUSE ODIN WAS IN THE ODINSLEEP. stealing the soul of someone who is sleeping is NOT much of a feat--nor is it a low showing . . .

when odin was freed, mephisto was frightened of him and what he might do to him . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
really? wanna share some of those references? most deal with his station in the hierarchy. i'd love to see one of these references of yours that discusses his power in the manner you mean.

Well Eternity has referred to him as an equal when fully powered( not to sure what that is but.... meh) and the magus with the ig also noted that he was too powerful a foe to be left alive.

Originally posted by leonidas
that much is true--at least he dealt with him quicker. but that's ABC logic and needs to be taken as such. and again--i'm not saying odin>galactus. i'm saying that based on all the accumulated evidence between the 2, galactus (as we usually see him) would not have an easy time disposing of odin. at all.

you feel different, i'm cool with that.

and just out of curiosity, who's the most powerful being galactus has convincingly defeated 1on1? anyone?

Im not trying to use that feat in itself to say Galactus >> that odin by alot( which i believe he is). I only brought it up because Galactus low feat against thanos was being used to downplay his powerlevels. Hence if we were even to use thanos as a gauge ( which im not doing) Galactus would do much better than Odin.

And as for the most powerful person that G has defeated convincingly, he did kill a watcher(skyfather level or higher imo) while weakened with one blast.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Im not trying to use that feat in itself to say Galactus >> that odin by alot( which i believe he is). I only brought it up because Galactus low feat against thanos was being used to downplay his powerlevels. Hence if we were even to use thanos as a gauge ( which im not doing) Galactus would do much better than Odin.

And as for the most powerful person that G has defeated convincingly, he did kill a watcher(skyfather level or higher imo) while weakened with one blast.

which issue did the watcher thing happen? don't know if i've heard of that one. surfer ALSO showed power to beat a watcher though, and quasar has stalemated and bested a watcher so watchers are an inconsistent gauge to say the least.

i wasn't using thanos to 'downplay' g, but rather to point out his varying levels. this debate has gone on for pgs well beyond this thread and it's very hard to come up with a definitive argument 'proving' that galactus is noteably more powerful than odin let alone multiples of odin. i'll agree that g's station far exceeds odin and i'll say that if properly prepared and nourished that g WOULD defeat odin easily. however, this thread does NOT state this is a hypothetically 'full powered' g, so i assume this is meant to be the more classically illustrated galactus. THAT galactus is rarely shown to be convincingly more powerful than other 'great powers'. which is why i asked who he has beaten of consequence in a straight 1on1 encounter. historically, feat-wise, galactus is NOT definitively above odin--or at least they are close enough that this particular battle is no where near as clear cut as some are saying it is.

Random things I saw.

Galactus was certainly not hungry in the Thanos exchange, but the part about G's energy being depleted was complete pis. He's thrown more powerful attacks tons of times in fights when he was starving, and actually had fights while throwing these attacks. The In-Betweener fight is a great example of this, as G was starving before going into a coma, woke up, and immediately fought IB for twenty or so pages while throwing big attacks. Following the Thanos example... G would have probably been dead in the first couple of panels.

Having to dodge an attack with a specific purpose has no say on power. It was meant to devolve him, should we expect Galactus to take the risk?

Meph vs Galactus was quite honestly Meph's best feat (beside ret-conning like 20 years of comics), even taking into account it being in his own realm. Sure you could make mention of Meph holding back to protect souls, but Meph has never had a repeat performance, or even close in his appearances.

Surtur isn't an Skyfather (Skyfathers are a pantheons of different Gods only in Marvel). Surtur is an equal to Odin, and with the Sword of Twilight (which is the only time he's destroyed galaxies if I remember correctly), he is far above Odin.

And beating and vaporizing a Watcher in one shot are completely different.

Originally posted by leonidas
which issue did the watcher thing happen? don't know if i've heard of that one. surfer ALSO showed power to beat a watcher though, and quasar has stalemated and bested a watcher so watchers are an inconsistent gauge to say the least.

i wasn't using thanos to 'downplay' g, but rather to point out his varying levels. this debate has gone on for pgs well beyond this thread and it's very hard to come up with a definitive argument 'proving' that galactus is noteably more powerful than odin let alone multiples of odin. i'll agree that g's station far exceeds odin and i'll say that if properly prepared and nourished that g WOULD defeat odin easily. however, this thread does NOT state this is a hypothetically 'full powered' g, so i assume this is meant to be the more classically illustrated galactus. THAT galactus is rarely shown to be convincingly more powerful than other 'great powers'. which is why i asked who he has beaten of consequence in a straight 1on1 encounter. historically, feat-wise, galactus is NOT definitively above odin--or at least they are close enough that this particular battle is no where near as clear cut as some are saying it is.

Well i havent seen the quasar watcher thing( what issue?) but the only time that surfer beat a watcher was in the unilord saga and he was amped and he was facing a watcher with some sort of disease so i doubt he was as strong as regular watchers. Not only that Surfer didnt really beat him but rather just jacked him up and threatened him.

Galactus also was able to beat Hyperstorm quite convincingly and also FP tyrant. Then there is him stalemating Inbetweener( it was a stalemate but IB i believe is way way above any skyfather) And yeah the watcher thing happened in Annihilation 6.

As for the rest part, I believe that featwise galactus IS definitively above Odin considerably. He has been portrayed alot of the times as hungry and thats when a lot of his low feats have come. However i dont think that is the default galactus for threads.

Originally posted by ultimatethor


As for the rest part, I believe that featwise galactus IS definitively above Odin considerably. He has been portrayed alot of the times as hungry and thats when a lot of his low feats have come. However i dont think that is the default galactus for threads.

QFT. The "standard" Galactus that so many people invoke on the forums, which is the galactus replete with low showings and defeat at the hands of the FF, etc. is not the same as the "standard" Galactus for the purposes of debate.

"Standard" Galactus that gets continuously referenced (the thing incident, getting beaten by the FF, other low showings) are generally written into the story with the extremely easy device of having him be hungry.

Now that may seem like a cop out but the bottom line is that in the interest of creating interesting stories and compelling drama, you cannot have Galactus and characters like the FF interact without severely handicapping Galactus, which happens to be his hunger. That is why when we debate here, we remove his hunger, and assume he is well-fed, or moderately fed.

The difference between Odin and Galactus:

Thanos vs Odin:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=4512666

As you see, Thanos isn't fresh, but he's ready for more. Odin is bloodlusted in this fight, really pissed off, damaging Asgard while trying damage the face of Thanos.



Now. Thanos vs Galactus:
http://img94.imageshack.us/my.php?image=galactus48na.jpg

In this arc, Galactus sucks. But he have OWNED (It's the least that can be said...) Thanos. Galactus one-shotted Thanos, pierce ALL his shield (The shields held Champion with the PG away) in the process.


And just not forget that Galactus seems to have re-gained some RESPECT since Annhilation. He would ownz Odin and the Dread Destroyer, Surtur and Ymir and all ****in' Asgard.

In Odin's respect thread it shows that he beats Mephisto in Hell...without the Odinforce and while no longer king of Asgard. Going by some showings, one could say that Odin is actually a true cosmic force. I've already noted before that in the Silver Age, Thor compared Odin's power to Galactus'. I think there may be other instances where the Allfather has these kinds of showings. Going by them, one may be able to say that Odin could beat Big G single-handedly. After all, gods in Marvel have been powered down over the years so in earlier times they may have been on Galactus' level or at least on a significant link of the cosmic food chain.

Originally posted by UKR
In Odin's respect thread it shows that he beats Mephisto in Hell...without the Odinforce and while no longer king of Asgard. Going by some showings, one could say that Odin is actually a true cosmic force. I've already noted before that in the Silver Age, Thor compared Odin's power to Galactus'. I think there may be other instances where the Allfather has these kinds of showings. Going by them, one may be able to say that Odin could beat Big G single-handedly. After all, gods in Marvel have been powered down over the years so in earlier times they may have been on Galactus' level or at least on a significant link of the cosmic food chain.

To put it bluntly, Thor has no idea what he is talking about

But yeah gods in marvel were depowered from there Silver age days and maybe once were intended to be put on Big Gs level of power, but i think those days are long gone and that galactus is quite a few steps above them nowadays.

Originally posted by leonidas
station v power post.



Even though that in the comic Kubik refered to them as the greater powers that Kosmos and himself shouldn't challenge?



Originally posted by leonidas


g is shown as 'good' as often as not. and when has odin saved earth?

you seem to be saying that they are close because odin is the . . . good guy?

I remember Odin Moving Earths population from what I cannot remember

All I'm pointing out is that Odin will not have the record of being defeated by the Fantastic four because that his role concerning earth is entirely different.

Originally posted by leonidas
i mentioned it. don't think i requested a similar feat. pointmess anyway. it was to show that skyfathers (aside from odin) have destroyed galaxies.

Surtur to be more preciese with the Twilight Sword I would regard as being above Odin since Odin has never on panel alone destroyed a Galaxy.

Originally posted by leonidas
so if by your own admission you can't judge the levels of others, how can you (if not you, others) claim g can beat multiples of skyfathers? it would be a rare galactus who could take out multiples of odin, that is for certain.

I have already one page one given my analyse of the battle, if we take Odin Zeus and Vishnu's showing against Arishem as the maximum Damage they can produce combined, Galactus should have no problem with defeating them and numerous other skyfathers, however if all others are as Odin then 2-5 and up depending on Galactus powerlevel would defeat him.


Originally posted by leonidas
when he is forced to dodge an attack from someone of HE's status as opposed to being able to shrug it off? absolutely . . .


He wasn't forced to dodge it he choosed to dodge it... And HE is regarded by Kubik on the same level as Stranger as the new of the ascended.


Originally posted by leonidas
cool. then it's pointless to ask how many skyfathers he could beat. i'd say ONE odin would challenge him. him beating multiple odins would be extremely rare and i don't think i've seen an on-panel g (except MAYBE the one that was abttling tyrant . . .) who could do that . . .

And I will say that based on the showing that three skyfathers had against Arishem they cannot challenge Galactus. I would say the one that Defeated Diableri could do it too, the one that without taking the battle with Agamotto serious and still having a stalemate could do it.

Originally posted by leonidas
fair enuff.

oh--can't recall if it was you or not who mentioned mephisto 'imprisoning' odin . . . this is EXACTLY how false info is spread on the forum. mephisto did indeed imprison odin's soul. some context would help though.

he was ONLY ABLE TO DO SO BECAUSE ODIN WAS IN THE ODINSLEEP. stealing the soul of someone who is sleeping is NOT much of a feat--nor is it a low showing . . .

when odin was freed, mephisto was frightened of him and what he might do to him . . .

Yet he still held him for three years ore did Odin sleep for all that time?

Attack on leonidas day?

Are we talking about Hungry Galactus well if we go by average showing he is often shown Hungry.

By reading the OP's post he seems to be talking about at least a well Fed Galactus hence the Celestials reference

Originally posted by Red Hulk
Random things I saw.

Galactus was certainly not hungry in the Thanos exchange, but the part about G's energy being depleted was complete pis. He's thrown more powerful attacks tons of times in fights when he was starving, and actually had fights while throwing these attacks. The In-Betweener fight is a great example of this, as G was starving before going into a coma, woke up, and immediately fought IB for twenty or so pages while throwing big attacks. Following the Thanos example... G would have probably been dead in the first couple of panels.

pis is attributed to galactus A LOT. part of my point regarding his varying levels of power . . .



if he's as great as everyone is saying, what's the risk? HE is an evolved human. g is much, much more. personally, i found it funny. take it however you'd like. as for his being equal to stranger . . . i'd like to see this hierarchy that kibik takes us through again. i know it's in an FF annual somewhere, and i have it, but i've not looked at it in quite some time . . .



he's on the same level as someone like dormammu. both are lords of splinter realms. that is NOT a low level to be placed upon . . .



you COULD say all that. you'd be wrong, but you could say it. skyfather (as used in this discussion) is not a station, it's a power designation. surtur (with twilight) is a skyfather level being. you've helped me considerably though with your error. here's some more misinformation i'll correct--

surtur destroyed a galaxy to BUILD THE FORGE TO CREATE TWILIGHT. he never had twilight when he showed galaxy-destroying power, nor is surtur, without the sword, equal to odin. WITH THE SWORD he's about equal. when surtur used the sword the first time, he stalemated odin and his brothers who eventually broke the sword. the sword the second time prevented odin from fully ACCESSING his odin-power. once odin DID regain his full power, he again matched surtur with the sword.



i'd love to see that scan. vaporizing a healthy watcher in one blast IS impressive--likely g's single most impressive feat.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Well i havent seen the quasar watcher thing( what issue?) but the only time that surfer beat a watcher was in the unilord saga and he was amped and he was facing a watcher with some sort of disease so i doubt he was as strong as regular watchers. Not only that Surfer didnt really beat him but rather just jacked him up and threatened him.

true, but it was clear via inference who was the greater powers. but i concede your point.



inbetweener is a tough gauge. strange has--without prep--stalemated him for a prolonged time. thanos seemed able to match (or at least approach) his energy output at one time . . . he's had some inconsistent showings as well. i'd still like to see the watcher scan. may need to look that one up.



i still don't see the feats that put him definitively above odin. odin's battle with set shook the MULTIVERSE. g's battle with tyrant (their COMBINED energy output) destroyed galaxies. surtur alone--without the sword--destroyed a galaxy and he is LESS than odin . . .

we have kubik's hierarchy and one showing vs celestials that everyone harps on. the hierarchy is fine, but hardly 'law' and the one showing vs the celestials could be written off as PIS as easily as some of g's showings could be. if i factored in some of odin's older showings the difference becomes even smaller.

but it's your opinion and you're welcome to it. i just think the thread was getting ridiculous and that the power of s skyfather was being mis-represented in this thread--badly.

Originally posted by kgkg
Attack on leonidas day?

Are we talking about Hungry Galactus well if we go by average showing he is often shown Hungry.

By reading the OP's post he seems to be talking about at least a well Fed Galactus hence the Celestials reference



reminds me of the days you and cc and lp used to try ganging up on me . . . .

with about the same effectiveness.

surtur destroyed a galaxy to BUILD THE FORGE TO CREATE TWILIGHT. he never had twilight when he showed galaxy-destroying power, nor is surtur, without the sword, equal to odin. WITH THE SWORD he's about equal. when surtur used the sword the first time, he stalemated odin and his brothers who eventually broke the sword. the sword the second time prevented odin from fully ACCESSING his odin-power. once odin DID regain his full power, he again matched surtur with the sword.

Just to add to what was said Odin didn't have his power "Odinforce until after the battle with surtar. So 3 asgaurdians were able to defeat him.

Originally posted by UKR
I nod to Hewhoknowsall. From what I read in that thread, ppl believe Galactus can beat three or four regular Celestials. A single average Celestial made three skyfathers look like insects. I doubt that the difference in power between skyfathers and Galactus is nearly THAT severe, but people in general seem to believe that Odin and skyfathers are definitely weaker than Galactus. How many can a sated Galactus beat before they take him down?

It depends:

Is he hungry, well fed or Full Power?

Does he have Tech?