Superman(kc) vs. Superman(red son)

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quanchi112
Who wins?

Enyalus
KC should shitstomp the Commie.


(And that hurts, because I'm a devout Stalinist.)

quanchi112
Originally posted by Enyalus
KC should shitstomp the Commie.


(And that hurts, because I'm a devout Stalinist.) Do you really think he stomps him?

cloud102
No, Red Son wins. Smartert and all around more powerful.

quanchi112
Originally posted by cloud102
No, Red Son wins. Smartert and all around more powerful. How is he more powerful?

fascistcrusader
KC probably wins, but Red Son is a cool interpretation of Supes so I'm gonna post this in his honor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny4YpBgq_Pk

quanchi112
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
KC probably wins, but Red Son is a cool interpretation of Supes so I'm gonna post this in his honor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny4YpBgq_Pk KC is most definitely the coolest supes out there.

fascistcrusader
Russian military parades prove otherwise, comrade.

Endless Mike
Interesting one - I'd give it to KC 7/10

cloud102
Originally posted by quanchi112
How is he more powerful?

Mark Millar has stated that Red Son is an homage to Pre-Crisis Superman in terms of power and intelligence. And we all know how powerful PC Superman is. Plus, he has more feats, I think.

guy222
KC

Surtur
Originally posted by cloud102
Mark Millar has stated that Red Son is an homage to Pre-Crisis Superman in terms of power and intelligence. And we all know how powerful PC Superman is. Plus, he has more feats, I think.

He did nothing that puts him above current Supes, let alone PC Supes.


So, KC Supes easily takes this.

spetznaz
Interesting match-up.

Off the top of my head I want to say Kingdom Come, primarily because he has absorbed more yellow-tinge solar radiation over the years, and also because of the clear extrapolation of powers between him and New Earth Superman.

However, that is thrown into a loop because it is clearly stated in the Red Son Graphic Novel that RS Superman has ALSO absorbed a lot of solar, and near the end of the graphic novel (when he finally decides to go off and conquer the newly re-assembled US that is headed by Lex) it is evident that he is also an older Superman (like KC) ....thus totally negating the whole 'but KC has more years of solar absorption.'

Thus, the two are both senior Superman at their peaks when it comes to yellow-tinge Solar absorption, as well as power sets.

Both are also highly technical combatants (e.g. they don't have the boy scout tendencies of NE Superman). For instance, RS Superman effectively takes out all those Green Lanterns (I love the blurb where he tells them they are foolish for using a thought-based weapon against someone who can move 10 times the speed of thought).

So, thus far they seem more or less neck to neck.

However, there is a part that makes me give this to RS Superman.

Near the end, when Braniac turns against him after RS-S refuses to finish the job of dismantling the new US, Braniac is disabled by Lex ....which triggers the several mini-Black Holes that power Braniac's ship.

He has seconds left.

The 6 black holes will destroy everything within a radius of 15 MILLION miles.

He has to travel that distance in seconds .....and he rushes up, grabs the LARGE SHIP, and hurtles off into space at what must be multiples of C.

Manages to take it far enough that it is way beyond 15 mil miles from Earth.

And even though Luthor expected the 15mil mile blast to also destroy Superman, it did not (Superman quips that Luthor must have miscalculated his density by some decimal point).

That is, simply, a type of feat that is CLEARLY Pre-Crisis, and would not lose face when compared with anything that PC Superman, PC Superboy, Emo-Prime, Tangent Superman, and All-Star Superman have done (there have been greater feats, easily ...e.g. sneezing away galaxies or pulling strings of planets, or even the more recent Emo-Prime pushing of a planet at high velocity .... but that feat by Red Son Superman could stand with them and even though it would not win it would not lose face. It would be an honorable standing).

Red Son Superman, in that feat, did something that could have easily have fallen out of a pre-Crisis planning dossier!

Red Son Superman wins this ....although it should be noted that both are 'senior citizen' Kryptonians at their absolute power-peaks. It is just that, based on panel feats (and not Quanchi-esque 'prove to me he also cannot do that' circular logic nonsense), Red-Son Superman does have the higher feats.

Thus, in my book, Red Son Superman wins. (Although, if I channel the inanity that is Quanchi, I could say that 'maybe KC Superman could do all that and more ...after all, prove to me that he cannot.' However, I am all out of meth, thus without the idiot juice I cannot do that).

Red Son wins.

spetznaz
Originally posted by Surtur
He did nothing that puts him above current Supes, let alone PC Supes.




Another poster whose exposure to comics (that he actually wastes bandwidth posting on when it is evident he knows not what he is speaking about) actually comes to Wikipedia entries.

Saying that Red Son Superman has done nothing that puts him above current Superman, shows that you have evidently not read Superman: Red Son.

Which brings up the question ...why post in the first place?

Unless you have some vestigial gene that compels you to make a fool of yourself in public?

Martian_mind
I give the win to Red Son....The one true Superman.

Surtur
Originally posted by spetznaz
However, that is thrown into a loop because it is clearly stated in the Red Son Graphic Novel that RS Superman has ALSO absorbed a lot of solar, and near the end of the graphic novel (when he finally decides to go off and conquer the newly re-assembled US that is headed by Lex) it is evident that he is also an older Superman (like KC) ....thus totally negating the whole 'but KC has more years of solar absorption.'

Great, it was also stated Sentry beat Galactus.



Which isn't backed up by what they've actually done.



A feat not beyond current Supes.



I think it was more implied he was fast enough to escape the blast radius.



Normal post crisis Supes has survived exploding sun eaters, the moon being obliterated, etc. Once again, you're not naming anything current Supes can't do, to compare it to PC supes is..not right.

spetznaz
Originally posted by Surtur
Great, it was also stated Sentry beat Galactus.



Which isn't backed up by what they've actually done.



A feat not beyond current Supes.



I think it was more implied he was fast enough to escape the blast radius.



Normal post crisis Supes has survived exploding sun eaters, the moon being obliterated, etc. Once again, you're not naming anything current Supes can't do, to compare it to PC supes is..not right.

Silly rabbit.

Anyways, let me indulge you.

a. You state that: Great, it was also stated Sentry beat Galactus.

Well, I also heard that JFK was killed by the mob, i.e., it has no pertinence in this matter. I mentioned that both Supermen are older, and have absorbed more Solar radiation, and you post that "it's stated that Sentry beat Galactus." That is totally asinine and has no bearing on anything on this thread.

Flawed logic.

b. You state that: Which isn't backed up by what they've actually done.

This was in response to when I said that both were senior Supermen who were at their power peaks due to prolonged Solar Absorption. Well, KC is definitely more resistant towards magic, and has shown more resilience to attacks that would have rocked NE Superman. As for RS-Superman, he was doing feats that NE-Superman simply cannot do. Which ties in with your next nugget of wisdom.

c. You state that: A feat not beyond current Supes.

Well, I have many scans of Post-Crisis/New Earth Superman doing many tremendous feats, including some of those that you mention. I have some of him moving at speeds that are implied to be faster than c, and him surviving blasts that are truly prodigious (ranging from ground zero nuclear attacks while poisoned with Kryptonite, all the way to a major space detonation that was simply astounding). All of these can be found in his respect thread.

There is NONE that show him moving the distance of OVER 15 million miles in SECONDS, and surviving a blast that would destroy everything within that radius.

You are pulling facts out of your posterior.

d. You stated: I think it was more implied he was fast enough to escape the blast radius.

Well, you can go ahead and THINK, but I own the bloody rag, and I know what it says. After Red Son Superman covertly comes back to Earth, and centuries upon centuries pass, with him not dying (immortality ...although his powers start to dim as our sun turns from yellow to a Red Giant), he quips that Luthor calculated his density some decimal point off. So you can 'think' away all you want, it doesn't change the fact that you are pulling 'facts' out of your posterior all the same.

e. You stated: Normal post crisis Supes has survived exploding sun eaters, the moon being obliterated, etc. Once again, you're not naming anything current Supes can't do, to compare it to PC supes is..not right.

Silly rabbit! There is a difference between an obliterated moon, and a blast that will destroy everything in a 15 million mile radius! There is a difference between normal Superman flying from Earth to another planet within our solar system at speeds implied to be faster than C when Luthor wins the presidency, against Red Son Superman flying over 15 million miles in less than a minute!

Go home and scrub your brain.

Martian_mind
http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/u131/jason-todd/Communist%20Superman/?action=view&current=Jimscomics057.jpg

15 Million miles in 50 seconds or under.

Zack Fair
While its always nice to see Spetsnaz lay some Supes knowledge....I can't help but feel an usual hostility...maybe its because he is pissed at the thought of having to deal with Quanchilogic....meh still good anyways.

Juntai
Originally posted by Martian_mind
http://s167.photobucket.com/albums/u131/jason-todd/Communist%20Superman/?action=view&current=Jimscomics057.jpg

15 Million miles in 50 seconds or under. In Countdown, Superman flew from the Vega System to Earth in a few beeps of Olsen's watch.

Juntai
To put that into pespective, that's roughly 150 trillion miles.
10 million times the distance of Red Son.

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by spetznaz
Another poster whose exposure to comics (that he actually wastes bandwidth posting on when it is evident he knows not what he is speaking about) actually comes to Wikipedia entries.

Saying that Red Son Superman has done nothing that puts him above current Superman, shows that you have evidently not read Superman: Red Son.

Which brings up the question ...why post in the first place?

Unless you have some vestigial gene that compels you to make a fool of yourself in public?

Owned.

quanchi112
Originally posted by cloud102
Mark Millar has stated that Red Son is an homage to Pre-Crisis Superman in terms of power and intelligence. And we all know how powerful PC Superman is. Plus, he has more feats, I think. You really think red son is equal to pc Supes?Originally posted by Zack Fair
While its always nice to see Spetsnaz lay some Supes knowledge....I can't help but feel an usual hostility...maybe its because he is pissed at the thought of having to deal with Quanchilogic....meh still good anyways. He isnt even talking to me. Cant you even follow along? I mean wow. One thing though the guy is bashing surtur for no apparent reason other than the fact he disagrees.

quanchi112
Originally posted by spetznaz
Interesting match-up.

Off the top of my head I want to say Kingdom Come, primarily because he has absorbed more yellow-tinge solar radiation over the years, and also because of the clear extrapolation of powers between him and New Earth Superman.

However, that is thrown into a loop because it is clearly stated in the Red Son Graphic Novel that RS Superman has ALSO absorbed a lot of solar, and near the end of the graphic novel (when he finally decides to go off and conquer the newly re-assembled US that is headed by Lex) it is evident that he is also an older Superman (like KC) ....thus totally negating the whole 'but KC has more years of solar absorption.'

Thus, the two are both senior Superman at their peaks when it comes to yellow-tinge Solar absorption, as well as power sets.

Both are also highly technical combatants (e.g. they don't have the boy scout tendencies of NE Superman). For instance, RS Superman effectively takes out all those Green Lanterns (I love the blurb where he tells them they are foolish for using a thought-based weapon against someone who can move 10 times the speed of thought).

So, thus far they seem more or less neck to neck.

However, there is a part that makes me give this to RS Superman.

Near the end, when Braniac turns against him after RS-S refuses to finish the job of dismantling the new US, Braniac is disabled by Lex ....which triggers the several mini-Black Holes that power Braniac's ship.

He has seconds left.

The 6 black holes will destroy everything within a radius of 15 MILLION miles.

He has to travel that distance in seconds .....and he rushes up, grabs the LARGE SHIP, and hurtles off into space at what must be multiples of C.

Manages to take it far enough that it is way beyond 15 mil miles from Earth.

And even though Luthor expected the 15mil mile blast to also destroy Superman, it did not (Superman quips that Luthor must have miscalculated his density by some decimal point).

That is, simply, a type of feat that is CLEARLY Pre-Crisis, and would not lose face when compared with anything that PC Superman, PC Superboy, Emo-Prime, Tangent Superman, and All-Star Superman have done (there have been greater feats, easily ...e.g. sneezing away galaxies or pulling strings of planets, or even the more recent Emo-Prime pushing of a planet at high velocity .... but that feat by Red Son Superman could stand with them and even though it would not win it would not lose face. It would be an honorable standing).

Red Son Superman, in that feat, did something that could have easily have fallen out of a pre-Crisis planning dossier!

Red Son Superman wins this ....although it should be noted that both are 'senior citizen' Kryptonians at their absolute power-peaks. It is just that, based on panel feats (and not Quanchi-esque 'prove to me he also cannot do that' circular logic nonsense), Red-Son Superman does have the higher feats.

Thus, in my book, Red Son Superman wins. (Although, if I channel the inanity that is Quanchi, I could say that 'maybe KC Superman could do all that and more ...after all, prove to me that he cannot.' However, I am all out of meth, thus without the idiot juice I cannot do that).

Red Son wins. Oh,I just found at the end where you throw a jab at me. Wow. You spoiling to flame on someone. I find it highly amusing that you come out of nowhere and hurl insults at me while I only gave my opinion as did others on the outcome of this matchup.

So,one feat that is close to a precrisis feat makes him precrisis? Can you listen to that statement? He isnt precrisis or anywhere near it.

I have seen kc Supes stand up to a punch that floored regular Superman without even budging. He took a Magog blast like it were nothing and sat there and took repeated Marvel lightning. Id say he has proven he is more durable than regular Superman who has kc beat in feats. Direct comparisons show this to be true. If you want to hide behind feats then feel free but common sense says if thats all you go by you would indeed be wrong.

KC Supes wins this. Did you see how far Superman flew when he cracked him one. Yeah,red son for the loss.

Zack Fair
I know he wasn't talking to you, but he does mention you in his post and thus the reference.

Nothing more.

xJLxKing
This is weird. How can KC Superman be equal or ever greater then PC stats Superman?? It was stated(forgot where) that the Red Son Superman has the power and other stats of PC Superman. That was almsot immediately put him as the stronger verson.

I think I read ones that on Wiki(not actual source) that he did have PC Superman's power. If it's true then KC doesn't have much chance, so I go with RS.

Surtur
Originally posted by spetznaz Silly rabbit.

Anyways, let me indulge you.

a. You state that: Great, it was also stated Sentry beat Galactus.

Well, I also heard that JFK was killed by the mob, i.e., it has no pertinence in this matter. I mentioned that both Supermen are older, and have absorbed more Solar radiation, and you post that "it's stated that Sentry beat Galactus." That is totally asinine and has no bearing on anything on this thread.

I'm sorry, but what's asinine is basing the outcome of a fight on assumptions and statements. There really isn't anything else to say.




You know, it kind of sucks you're trying to come off as so arrogant, while at the same time obviously not knowing what you're talking about. So I'll indulge you:

KC Supes was bleeding from his ears from repeated magical lightning bolts. Current Supes pretty much takes them with around the same damage. Not to mention harmlessly inhales magical poison, fights off magical mind control,etc. So no, he isn't more resistance to magic. Next.




Once again, get your facts straight. Superman and GL flew from Jupiter to Pluto in mere seconds, a lot more than 15 million miles.



It really isn't any different than basing a fight on statements.



First off, lose the snark, it really isn't working out too well for you. I don't mind when it's done well, but this "silly rabbit" crap is a bit creepy.

Second of all, surviving isn't beyond normal Supes, so if he did take the blast..it doesn't matter.



Normal Supes has survived supernova's as well, those can cover that distance. So once again, your argument is flawed.



Just think before you post things ok?

quanchi112
Originally posted by xJLxKing
This is weird. How can KC Superman be equal or ever greater then PC stats Superman?? It was stated(forgot where) that the Red Son Superman has the power and other stats of PC Superman. That was almsot immediately put him as the stronger verson.

I think I read ones that on Wiki(not actual source) that he did have PC Superman's power. If it's true then KC doesn't have much chance, so I go with RS. Where is your source? I really hope you dont think he is comparable to pc Supes. I dont know how anyone could buy into that.

xJLxKing
Originally posted by quanchi112
Where is your source? I really hope you dont think he is comparable to pc Supes. I dont know how anyone could buy into that.
Like I said I don't have actual proof but you can go to wiki

quanchi112
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Like I said I don't have actual proof but you can go to wiki So,you dont have actual proof and you really shouldnt go by anything on wiki if thats your only source. I have seen some wacky stuff on wiki.

xJLxKing
Originally posted by quanchi112
So,you dont have actual proof and you really shouldnt go by anything on wiki if thats your only source. I have seen some wacky stuff on wiki.
Thats the only proof I have, but I am not the only one who stated this.

UniOmni
Wow, Spetz is acting like a douche.

And he's wrong to boot, so that just makes my tip drip.

















































Yep, THAT tip.

quanchi112
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Thats the only proof I have, but I am not the only one who stated this. Ok,but that isnt the same as actual proof. Originally posted by UniOmni
Wow, Spetz is acting like a douche.

And he's wrong to boot, so that just makes my tip drip.

















































Yep, THAT tip. Yeah,I dont even see the guy often and he really tried slamming me and surtur simply for disagreeing with him.

Eel O'Brien
Red Son couldn't even beat Reaganomics Supes from the Dark Knight returns.

No way is he PC level and no way he beats KC.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Eel O'Brien
Red Son couldn't even beat Reaganomics Supes from the Dark Knight returns.

No way is he PC level and no way he beats KC. Yep.

Enyalus
He also got stomped by Monarch. Whom Prime (PCish levels) basically beat.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Enyalus
He also got stomped by Monarch. Whom Prime (PCish levels) basically beat. Prime beat him though after he survived his attacks through his amp. Just saying. i agree that red son is nowhere near pc levels and think its completely absurb to say he is even close to those levels.

cloud102
Red Son ftw.

quanchi112
Originally posted by cloud102
Red Son ftw. Based on?

EkinEku
kim el supes takes it

Eel O'Brien
Originally posted by EkinEku
kim el supes takes it

confused

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