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What do you believe? What makes you believe or not believe?

I guess the best way for me to put my belief in God is that I don't have a very strong belief or an obsession over it. I don't really have an organized religion's concept of God. I don't have the idea that people have to follow my religious beliefs or that something bad will happen to them for not doing so. I think the best way for me to describe my understanding of God is an experience in my life.

It was about 2 AM one night (I'm a night owl, no question), and all of a sudden I heard the fire alarm in the hallway of my apartment building go off. I gave it a while because I figured it was just an accident and nothing bad would happen. But after a while it didn't stop and I could smell the smoke in the hallway. Eventually you could even see the smoke wafting around in the air in the hallway. So I called the fire department. And after I called, I prayed because it was a time of desperation and I was so sure someone could die (later it turned out to be a small cooking accident caused by a woman whose race and ethnicity I won't describe here, but which I could use some colorful words to do so). Never before did I honestly, truly believe; I'd been an adamant, in fact vehement atheist my whole life. I said "Lord, I don't know what your name is or what you look like. I don't know if you're Christ, Allah, Brahman, Zeus, Yahweh, El or Buddha, but I'm in trouble now and I need your help unlike ever before". I can't tell you for a fact that there's someone up there and/or that He saved anyone's life. I can't tell you what God's name is or which, if any, of those aforementioned gods He is. All I know is that the trucks arrived on time and no one was hurt or killed. That's what I actually know for a fact. That's what I saw with my own two eyes and heard with my own two ears. I don't know if He made the trucks arrive on time or if He even exists at all. All I know is that in my mind, someone could have been in life-threatening danger, but the honest truth is that when it was all over everything was alright again and no one was burned at all, let alone to death. That's all I can tell you. This actually happened to me.

Feel free to discuss.

Originally posted by UKR
What do you believe? What makes you believe or not believe?

I guess the best way for me to put my belief in God is that I don't have a very strong belief or an obsession over it. I don't really have an organized religion's concept of God. I don't have the idea that people have to follow my religious beliefs or that something bad will happen to them for not doing so. I think the best way for me to describe my understanding of God is an experience in my life.

It was about 2 AM one night (I'm a night owl, no question), and all of a sudden I heard the fire alarm in the hallway of my apartment building go off. I gave it a while because I figured it was just an accident and nothing bad would happen. But after a while it didn't stop and I could smell the smoke in the hallway. Eventually you could even see the smoke wafting around in the air in the hallway. So I called the fire department. And after I called, I prayed because it was a time of desperation and I was so sure someone could die (later it turned out to be a small cooking accident caused by a woman whose race and ethnicity I won't describe here, but which I could use some colorful words to do so). Never before did I honestly, truly believe; I'd been an adamant, in fact vehement atheist my whole life. I said "Lord, I don't know what your name is or what you look like. I don't know if you're Christ, Allah, Brahman, Zeus, Yahweh, El or Buddha, but I'm in trouble now and I need your help unlike ever before". I can't tell you for a fact that there's someone up there and/or that He saved anyone's life. I can't tell you what God's name is or which, if any, of those aforementioned gods He is. All I know is that the trucks arrived on time and no one was hurt or killed. That's what I actually know for a fact. That's what I saw with my own two eyes and heard with my own two ears. I don't know if He made the trucks arrive on time or if He even exists at all. All I know is that in my mind, someone could have been in life-threatening danger, but the honest truth is that when it was all over everything was alright again and no one was burned at all, let alone to death. That's all I can tell you. This actually happened to me.

Feel free to discuss.

What about all the people who died in other fires? Do you think they did not pray?

The truth is, shit happens. Everything turned out alright because you call the fire department. There is nothing supernatural about that.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What about all the people who died in other fires? Do you think they did not pray?

The truth is, shit happens. Everything turned out alright because you call the fire department. There is nothing supernatural about that.


See, that's why I didn't claim that God made the trucks arrive on time. I don't know if He did or if He's even real. I just know nobody died in that fire. Did God save our lives? Is He a fictitious character? I'm just saying, don't go crazy and assume He can't be real or that He's responsible for everything even if you do think He's real.

You could claim that God didn't let you step in the mud puddle because he helped you see it before you stepped in it, or that the cookie monster did it. There is nothing to support your concept but it is a feel good notion that someone is looking out for you even though you have no proof.

Even if you believe that God is real, the idea that an all powerful being is watching our day to day lives seems silly to me. Why would he just be watching you? Does he not have an entire universe to run, watch over and what ever?

I believe a lot of things. You'll have to be much more specific if you want an answer.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
Even if you believe that God is real, the idea that an all powerful being is watching our day to day lives seems silly to me. Why would he just be watching you? Does he not have an entire universe to run, watch over and what ever?

He's God . . . what the **** stops him from doing both?

Is this a "What you believe" thread? Or are we discussing UKR's stuff? I'll lend my brief voice to the former question...others are handling the latter topic well enough.

I call myself atheist, though mainly for the shock value, because I don't mind tackling the stereotypes that often come with that label. If I don't have time to discuss it with others, I generally use non-religious or non-theist to avoid social stigmas. I am a former devout Catholic, and don't begrudge my religious upbringing, but rather am happy that I was able to experience both sides of religion quite fully.

I see great benefit to traditional religions when they are viewed as metaphoric truths that are intended to help us through various aspects of our lives. It is when religions are made into literal truths that they create division between themselves and other belief systems, as well as make claims that are silly, illogical, lacking evidence entirely, and become counter-productive to true inquiry and progress between and among people.

Let's see, what else falls under religion? I'm a determinist, relativist, violinist ( ), comic bookist, etc.

If you strip it of the supernatural, I could consider myself a Taoist. Though even then, I would consider it more of a helpful philosophy for enjoying life than a religion.

So let me get this straight. Because you did your civic duty and called for aid during an emergency, (the fire) and the professionally trained workers who specialize in putting out fires arrived in time to quench the blaze, you deduce that there is a supernatural entity determining the outcomes of various situations across the globe? This seems like a bold claim to me. I don't have the mental agility to jump from "things worked out well" to "an all powerful benevolent force saved me." Maybe my imagination just isn't good enough.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
So let me get this straight. Because you did your civic duty and called for aid during an emergency, (the fire) and the professionally trained workers who specialize in putting out fires arrived in time to quench the blaze, you deduce that there is a supernatural entity determining the outcomes of various situations across the globe? This seems like a bold claim to me. I don't have the mental agility to jump from "things worked out well" to "an all powerful benevolent force saved me." Maybe my imagination just isn't good enough.

"later it turned out to be a small cooking accident"

He's more agile than that. Straight from "there was actually no danger at all to begin with" into "an all powerful benevolent force saved me".

Millions of people have prayed.

Millions of those prayers have been unanswered.

Why does God favour you over all those other people?

That's a pretty self-centered view you've got there.

somewhere there is a room full of firefighters just waiting for that thank you card

EDIT:

wait!!! yo, wtf is this?

Originally posted by UKR
woman whose race and ethnicity I won't describe here, but which I could use some colorful words to do so

why don't you go ahead and describe it

Originally posted by inimalist
EDIT:

wait!!! yo, wtf is this?



why don't you go ahead and describe it

She was a bright pink neonian!

I believe we should never have stopped burning the heretics.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
I believe we should never have stopped burning the heretics.

If you agree to stay away from infidels and witches I think I can allow that. I have retroactive infallibility so you might have never stopped burning them. It all depends on if you can make it worth my while...

God saved you from a small cooking accident?

Originally posted by King Kandy
God saved you from a small cooking accident?

Caused by jobstealing foreigner apparently.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
I believe we should never have stopped burning the heretics.

He's not a heretic, he's a troll. He's baiting people.

Originally posted by Devil King
He's not a heretic, he's a troll. He's baiting people.

Hmm...he did give us permission to discuss...

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
I believe we should never have stopped burning the heretics.

Sooooooooo that's what happened to me in my last life!

Originally posted by UKR
I guess the best way for me to put my belief in God is that I don't have a very strong belief or an obsession over it.

Then why go on to explain your strong belief?

Here's what I believe.

I believe that all men are created equal.

I believe that god created the earth, giving man a choice to ultimately love and follow him or betray him, and that adam and eve chose poorly, sinking us into the state that we are in now.

I believe that Jesus died on the cross and caused it so that we have an option so that we won't live the eternity of betrayers to our creator and that all one has to do is chose that option to be saved for eternity.

I believe that a human being should be allowed to DO WHATEVER THEY WANT, own WHATEVER THEY WANT, and believe WHATEVER THEY WANT. I also believe that a human being is free to dislike whomever they want, including racism. It's someone's constitutional right. Now this person should not be allowed a government job, but overall, he has the right to reject anyone he wants.
alot of people will cry over this, but my point is that I am not a racist, but I'm not forcing anyone else not to be, but everyone has the the constitutional right to free speech.

I believe that the founding fathers were devout Christians who made The United States of America to run on the oldest and most successful morale code in history, and ultimately created the best man-made society, which has slowly deteriorated ever since.

I believe that Jesus Christ or the christian morale code should not dominate anyone. You should be free to do what you want, be what you want, act how you want. Laws should only apply to things that hurt either the state, the society as a whole, or the property or person of another individual. You don't want to believe what I believe? well the reason that Jesus doesn't come down and "omg y dunt jesus come down and stop all evil if hes so good, lol" is because you should be free to choose, and that's an integral part of the christian morale code.

I believe that evolution is not valid enough to be taught in schools.

I believe in the nuclear family.

I believe that in an ideal society, the man provides for the wife who home-schools her children so that they will reflect the beliefs of their guardians and not those of the state.

I believe that evolution is not valid enough for public schools, and that the origin of the universe and of mankind should not be taught in schools at all.

I believe in baseball

I believe in Apple Pie

I believe in Thanksgiving

I believe in Christmas

I believe in Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness.

I believe everything in this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruRpreggAtc&feature=related

I believe that superman fights for truth, justice, and the American way, not just truth and justice, as he seems to fight for in more recent incarnations.

I believe that guns are more than a tool or a killing machine. They represent freedom and the freedom that America stands for.

I believe that abortion goes against the constitution because it is robbing someone of their life, their liberty, and their pursuit of happiness.

I believe in the right to free speech.

I believe in the right of life for everyone.

I believe in the right of liberty for everyone.

I believe in the right to the pursuit of happiness for everyone.

I believe in the America of the 18th century, the America of the cowboys, the America of the 50s, and the America of world war II.

I believe in the America of today.

edit

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
Here's what I believe.

I believe that all men are created equal.

I believe that god created the earth, giving man a choice to ultimately love and follow him or betray him, and that adam and eve chose poorly, sinking us into the state that we are in now.

I believe that Jesus died on the cross and caused it so that we have an option so that we won't live the eternity of betrayers to our creator and that all one has to do is chose that option to be saved for eternity.

I believe that a human being should be allowed to DO WHATEVER THEY WANT, own WHATEVER THEY WANT, and believe WHATEVER THEY WANT. I also believe that a human being is free to dislike whomever they want, including racism. It's someone's constitutional right. Now this person should not be allowed a government job, but overall, he has the right to reject anyone he wants.
alot of people will cry over this, but my point is that I am not a racist, but I'm not forcing anyone else not to be, but everyone has the the constitutional right to free speech.

I believe that the founding fathers were devout Christians who made The United States of America to run on the oldest and most successful morale code in history, and ultimately created the best man-made society, which has slowly deteriorated ever since.

I believe that Jesus Christ or the christian morale code should not dominate anyone. You should be free to do what you want, be what you want, act how you want. Laws should only apply to things that hurt either the state, the society as a whole, or the property or person of another individual. You don't want to believe what I believe? well the reason that Jesus doesn't come down and "omg y dunt jesus come down and stop all evil if hes so good, lol" is because you should be free to choose, and that's an integral part of the christian morale code.

I believe that evolution is not valid enough to be taught in schools.

I believe in the nuclear family.

I believe that in an ideal society, the man provides for the wife who home-schools her children so that they will reflect the beliefs of their guardians and not those of the state.

I believe that evolution is not valid enough for public schools, and that the origin of the universe and of mankind should not be taught in schools at all.

I believe in baseball

I believe in Apple Pie

I believe in Thanksgiving

I believe in Christmas

I believe in Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness.

I believe everything in this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruRpreggAtc&feature=related

I believe that superman fights for truth, justice, and the American way, not just truth and justice, as he seems to fight for in more recent incarnations.

I believe that guns are more than a tool or a killing machine. They represent freedom and the freedom that America stands for.

I believe that abortion goes against the constitution because it is robbing someone of their life, their liberty, and their pursuit of happiness.

I believe in the right to free speech.

I believe in the right of life for everyone.

I believe in the right of liberty for everyone.

I believe in the right to the pursuit of happiness for everyone.

I believe in the America of the 18th century, the America of the cowboys, the America of the 50s, and the America of world war II.

I believe in the America of today.

I believe the harder you push, the more shit comes out of your *******.

I believe in booze.

All praise budweiser.

- Ashe <3

no...

the word is a-s-s-h-o-l-e

I believe that devil king is a totally unpatriotic contemptible 12 year old.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
I believe that devil king is a totally unpatriotic contemptible 12 year old.

Its a bit hard to ask someone to be patriotic for a country which by-law makes them second class citizens...

I mean, far be it from me to cast out judgements, but have you ever lived in a country where things you can't control - in his case sexuality- are used against you to demonise you, bully you and make you feel ashamed of being alive?

Can you imagine what its like to know that in your own country a sizeable amount of the population HATE you by default?

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
I believe that devil king is a totally unpatriotic contemptible 12 year old.

No, the truth is far worse.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Its a bit hard to ask someone to be patriotic for a country which by-law makes them second class citizens...
OMIGOD hes a Canadian immigrant?

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
I believe that the founding fathers were devout Christians
However, you are sadly wrong.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
OMIGOD hes a Canadian immigrant?

Your just a pathetic, twisted little man aren't you?

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav

I mean, far be it from me to cast out judgements, but have you ever lived in a country where things you can't control - in his case sexuality- are used against you to demonise you, bully you and make you feel ashamed of being alive?

Can you imagine what its like to know that in your own country a sizeable amount of the population HATE you by default? One of the things he seems to get wrong is that I don't hate him, I think his actions are wrong, but I don't hate him. I don't bully him, and I think he has every right to do what he does.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Your just a pathetic, twisted little man aren't you? dammit, he guessed! i'm a minority! don't hit me! discrimination!!!

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
One of the things he seems to get wrong is that I don't hate him, I think his actions are wrong, but I don't hate him. I don't bully him, and I think he has every right to do what he does.

I'm sure you believe you don't hate him and I am also sure you could get along with him perfectly amicably...despite what he does/doesn't do.

Fact is- to hate homosexual acts leads to a hatred of homosexuals...its overkill. 'Cause, I don't think you have the necessary ability to differentiate between a man and his actions...

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
I'm sure you believe you don't hate him and I am also sure you could get along with him perfectly amicably...despite what he does/doesn't do.

Fact is- to hate homosexual acts leads to a hatred of homosexuals...its overkill. 'Cause, I don't think you have the necessary ability to differentiate between a man and his actions... If his actions were harmful to others or society, no i would not differentiate between a man and his actions, but as it is, sexuality is just an over-celebrated six inches of the human body, and i have a few homo friends who respect my beliefs, and think that its good that I have my convictions.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
If his actions were harmful to others or society, no i would not differentiate between a man and his actions, but as it is, sexuality is just an over-celebrated six inches of the human body, and i have a few homo friends who respect my beliefs, and think that its good that I have my convictions.

But, you do believe it is harmful to society...you have already said that...

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
But, you do believe it is harmful to society...you have already said that... I believe that homosexual marriage is, yes.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
I believe that homosexual marriage is, yes.

Exactly...

and why do you believe that?

copy/pasted from my original arguement with the moron king:

First of all, the main reason for gay marriage is so that they can get the same treatment as heterosexual marriage. The reasons that the government should not allow this are quite blatant.
1. Unlike blacks being allowed to vote, which is the popular analogy you seem so deft to take, Homosexuals chose the way that they are.
2. Now if you take away morals completely, you will find that homosexuality is still a grievous trespass against communities. First of all, it allows a homosexual to take his or her spouse on as a dependent. This means that the government would have to give him more of a tax return. It would also mean that, if in a government or other job that would give healthcare, these jobs would be forced to give healthcare to the spouse. Now this is fine in heterosexual marriages, because the social plan is that man+woman=children=citizens=taxes, so the government reaps what it sews in the long run. With Homosexual marriage, there are no children being produced, so this is already money just adding to the load on our tumbling economy's anvil. Furthermore, after homosexual sex, aids ensues and the two parties die. Now you have lost tax dollars, and citizens who could benefit society. That's why homosexuals should not be allowed to marry.

Now, if these homosexuals were to adopt, they would have a child who would be emotionally and mentally scarred from:
a) Being in a homosexual home.
b) having their original parents die early.
c) having their new "parents" die early.

I'm against marriage period. Straight marriage too. Marriage "licenses" are stupid. You are whatever you say you are. If I'm with someone permanently, that's the way it is. Marriage itself is just a social construct derived from various religions, most of which go back well beyond currently practiced religions, so the religions claiming it to be their particular institution is fairly ignorant. Handing out a license for it is even more idiotic, because it pretends to regulate morality.

Also, if you got rid of all marriage licenses, homosexuals wouldn't have anything to complain about. Problem solved. The churhces can still marry or not marry whoever they want, but the issue was always with the official governments documents that confirm it.

If people want to go through the ritual and whatnot, great, let them. Just don't hand them out as a government like we can control what is and isn't right. Separations of church and state my ass.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
copy/pasted from my original arguement with the moron king:

First of all, the main reason for gay marriage is so that they can get the same treatment as heterosexual marriage. The reasons that the government should not allow this are quite blatant.
1. Unlike blacks being allowed to vote, which is the popular analogy you seem so deft to take, Homosexuals chose the way that they are.
2. Now if you take away morals completely, you will find that homosexuality is still a grievous trespass against communities. First of all, it allows a homosexual to take his or her spouse on as a dependent. This means that the government would have to give him more of a tax return. It would also mean that, if in a government or other job that would give healthcare, these jobs would be forced to give healthcare to the spouse. Now this is fine in heterosexual marriages, because the social plan is that man+woman=children=citizens=taxes, so the government reaps what it sews in the long run. With Homosexual marriage, there are no children being produced, so this is already money just adding to the load on our tumbling economy's anvil. Furthermore, after homosexual sex, aids ensues and the two parties die. Now you have lost tax dollars, and citizens who could benefit society. That's why homosexuals should not be allowed to marry.

Now, if these homosexuals were to adopt, they would have a child who would be emotionally and mentally scarred from:
a) Being in a homosexual home.
b) having their original parents die early.
c) having their new "parents" die early.

You have a warped view of homosexuality. AIDS is not a homosexual disease, there are many, many heterosexuals affected by it, and besides, with current advancements in medicinge, being HIV positive, is no longer an immediate death sentence. Sufferers of the virus can live a relatively normal live for many, many years.

Though it is beside the point, as clean, monogamous homosexual couples can have as much homo-sex with each other as they want and they will not get AIDS.

You don't understand very many things about the fundamentals of homosexuality, which leads you to have such an ignorant and offensive view. I doubt you want to educate yourself, but it would be greatly beneficial.

Originally posted by Bardock42

Though it is beside the point, as clean, monogamous homosexual couples can have as much homo-sex with each other as they want and they will not get AIDS.
i want one example of such a couple....

one example of a homosexual couple without aids?

Kinda my thoughts as well. It was a perplexing demand. I could probably go door-to-door from my house and find him an example within 15 minutes or so.

But bardock's post was very valid. He's got a lot of misinformation there, and would do well to educate himself more on the subject.

I could go to the "rainbow room" on campus and take a survey of people with aids...

EDIT: indeed, but I bet the problem is that he feels he is already educated on the issue.

no i want an example of a "clean" monogamous couple.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
i want one example of such a couple....

Adam Poe and Capt Fantastic, I believe, might have split (sorry, if that causes offense, I thought it was publich though)

My parents have a friend who is in a monogamous relationship with another man for years now, and they do not have AIDS.

Lindsay Lohan and her partner.

Elton John and his partner.

Magic Johnson and his wife....oh...wait...there's AIDS involved there, my bad.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
no i want an example of a "clean" monogamous couple.

your argument is that homosexuals can't have monogamous relationships?

I work with a lesbian who was in a clean and monogamous relationship for many years, and broke for reasons similar to why straight people break up.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
I believe that devil king is a totally unpatriotic contemptible 12 year old.

Of course you consider me totally unpatriotic; that's because you have no idea what patriotic means.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
I believe that superman fights for truth, justice, and the American way, not just truth and justice, as he seems to fight for in more recent incarnations.

i dare say, superman would be very, very disappointed in you...

I believe anything is possible......God told me so. Oh, that's right, I'm god. HAHAHAHA

Originally posted by King Kandy
However, you are sadly wrong.

No doubt...
The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution contain jack about Christianity.
-Art. 11. of the Treaty of Tripoli: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
-Thomas Jefferson
"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies." - Benjamin Franklin
Thomas Paine, "The Age of Reason," Rejected the Bible as the word of God

The truth is, life is not fair! Bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people. If you feel as if you had a religious experience, keep it to yourself. No one can take that away from you. And try/attempt to make sense of it, if possible. Pray about it; but maintain an open mind. Do not jump to conclusions (based on emotion). For all you know, your "experience" may have been the product of pure circumstance -- nothing more. If you wish to find truth in religion, just like anything else, it requires study -- knowledge! Take "emotion" and throw it into the trash can; it will get you nowhere. As the Apostle Paul said:

"And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile.... If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men (1 Corintians 15: 14, 17, 19, NIV).

whats to believe, a bunch of washed up religion celebrating and worshiping certain laughable deities and crap, believe in that or get a grip of the real world and just live life as it is. Who cares for religious aspects of it but the moron religious ones

I believe i m drunk

I believe I'm going to work defiling the Holy fake Sabbath day.