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Battle to the Death. No Prep. No BFR. No amping. Self or others.
All Standard Gear.

hmm

Originally posted by Raoul
hmm

Indeed . . . I'm going to have to sleep on this one

This might really just depend on who fights who.

Its embaressing that bob is now the weakess link....hmm dont know yet.

I like team one for the small majority on this matchup.

Fangirl, you make a lot of really good fights.

team one

nvr is a pro thats for sure....could u replace ww with glads and bob with lightray.

Bob would eat Lightray for breakfast. He's not that weak of a link.

Namor says otherwise.....

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Namor says otherwise.....
I don't know why u bring that up, when Namor never beat Sentry.

Although Sentry hasn't really beat Namor either so.......

I am going with team 2 for 6-7/10 win but good fights

Team 2

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Although Sentry hasn't really beat Namor either so.......

Neither has, say, Superman. He must suck.

Orion,Thor,Wonder Woman,Beta Ray Bill
vs.
Superman,Silver Surfer, Hal Jordan, Sentry

Diana and bob would be the first to go, Bill could potentially take out Jordan and thor/orion could probably stalemate SS and supes...guess it really depends on the outcome of Jordan and bill.

IC and SC left a bad taste in my mouth regarding GLs and their power.

To me, BRB should be able to shatter any of Hal's constructs with ease, considering he can bust planets with ease and generate enough power to destabilize the foundations of the universe itself.

Also team 2 has Fusion of power options
another bonus for team 2

Jordan when motivated is a beast, im really undecided as to who would win between him and bill...but regardless both will be taxed after there encounter.

Originally posted by kgkg
Also team 2 has Fusion of power options
another bonus for team 2

You mean like Jordan making a solar suit construct for supes or giving his ring to SS.

uuuh.... Team 2. Barely

Originally posted by kgkg
Also team 2 has Fusion of power options
another bonus for team 2

No, they don't. OP states no amping themselves or others.

Originally posted by Enyalus
No, they don't. OP states no amping themselves or others. I ignored "No Prep. No BFR. No amping. Self or others. " it seems

Originally posted by ultimatethor
This might really just depend on who fights who.

I definitely agree. You could write multiple scenarios where either team could defeat the other. It really does depend on who fights whom. There are a couple not so favorable potential match ups , but generally just about anyone could handle a member of the other team and the fights would take a while.

Team two should take a decent majority.

Id say that the best case scenario for team two would be if surfer goes after wonderwoman. He would likely end that fight before the rest giving his team the advantage.

Best case for team one would be if Thor goes after Sentry and orion takes on surfer. These days Sentry seems to be getting weaker and weaker and weaker.

I think the best chance would be Surfer taking on Orion. He and the rest of the New Gods are weak to Radion, right? Surfer simulates that, fight over soon...

IMO the team with Thor and BRB will win.

Since Surfer can't amp himself, I say team one.

team 1

Diana vs SS is probably the worst match up in the bunch. That would give Team 2 the edge it needs, which was why my initial gut reaction was to give the majority to team 2.

But, I think WW does better against the other 3 than Sentry does against Team 1, so that balances things out a little.

Team 2. Almost any line up with end up with the winners as Team 2. Superman handles Orion, SS fights Thor, Hal Jones defeats WW, Sentry and Bill fight(no idea who win)

SS wouldn't match up that well to WW IMO, she could deflect all of his projectile offensive and close quarters wouldn't go any better for him since she could easily lasso him if she needed. SS is best to take out bill, but he will probably stalemate thor and orion.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
SS wouldn't match up that well to WW IMO, she could deflect all of his projectile offensive and close quarters wouldn't go any better for him since she could easily lasso him if she needed. SS is best to take out bill, but he will probably stalemate thor and orion.

Galen, this must be backwards day. I'm arguing against Diana and you for her

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Galen, this must be backwards day. I'm arguing against Diana and you for her

Well I do think that it's probably one of the more favorable matches for her, aside from Sentry whom I am now convinced she would wreck...namor level dudes don't belong here.

LOL. Am i reading this right? SS being unable to take diana?

Wonderwoman wont be able to lasso SS and even if she did somehow, SS would just phase out of it. SS could easily encase diana in a forcefield or cocoon of ethel energy and the match would be over. Or create sharp constructs and impale her while she is immobile. SS takes diana easy.

Right. And saying Sentry is Namor level is probably baiting/trolling.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
LOL. Am i reading this right? SS being unable to take diana?

Wonderwoman wont be able to lasso SS and even if she did somehow, SS would just phase out of it. SS could easily encase diana in a forcefield or cocoon of ethel energy and the match would be over. Or create sharp constructs and impale her while she is immobile. SS takes diana easy.

Not really, there isn't a single projectile SS could land that Diana could not easily deflect agaisn't and in close quarters....well she is faster then him. She blitz behind Amazo while she was still in his line of sight so it really wouldn't be a issue to lasso someone like SS who doesn't ultalize speed in close quarters. To top it off she has kept pace with flash on foot so"encasing"a target moving that fast is very unlikly.

She might not have the striking power to KO him, but if she uses her speed advantage and lasso then she could easily take him....getting in close would be the issue and Im sure a well written SS would want to further the gap in distance as much as possible.

Team one. Thor and BRB's ability to absorb energy attack helps a lot here, particularly against Hal.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Not really, there isn't a single projectile SS could land that Diana could not easily deflect agaisn't and in close quarters....well she is faster then him. She blitz behind Amazo while she was still in his line of sight so it really wouldn't be a issue to lasso someone like SS who doesn't ultalize speed in close quarters. To top it off she has kept pace with flash on foot so"encasing"a target moving that fast is very unlikly.

She might not have the striking power to KO him, but if she uses her speed advantage and lasso then she could easily take him....getting in close would be the issue and Im sure a well written SS would want to further the gap in distance as much as possible.

lol at the nonsense . Wonderwoman bullrushed Amazo and so what? SS has much faster bullrushing speed than diana can even imagine. U obviously have no idea what u r talking about ONCE AGAIN. SS doesnt utilize speed in close quarters? In what part of the OP did u see that this fight was close quarter h2h combat? SS is very maneuvrable on his board and is so much faster than Diana its not even funny. She would have almost no chance of lassoing him at all not to mention he can just phase out. He can also use blasts while zipping around on his boards at such speeds so no diana wont be blocking jack. Also encasing her would be easy as hell for SS. SS can encase multiple people with a thought. No matter how fast wonderwoman is running/flying Ss moves at least ( and im being conservative) 1000000 times faster. After he renders her immobile he impales her with sharp constructs.

So lets see here,

Her lasso is useless in this match
Her H2H speed advantage is irrelevant
SS has movement and manoevrability advantage
SS has evry other advantage in this match.

But somehow Diana wins or has a chance of winning?

Orion,Thor,Wonder Woman,Beta Ray Bill vs. Superman,Silver Surfer, Hal Jordan, Sentry

Orion vs Supes = Orion
Thor vs SS = Thor (he has the best record against SS for a Marvel character)
WW vs Hal = Hal
BRB vs Sentry = BRB (Sentry has fallen from grace since his first appearances)

So Orion, Thor and BRB against Hal.

Team 1 ftw IMO

Originally posted by ultimatethor
He can also use blasts while zipping around on his boards at such speeds so no diana wont be blocking jack.

She can block at least 1500 strikes per second and, according to narration panel statements, has faster reaction times than Superman.

I agree with SS being able to encase her, etc. I just think that if he attempted to blast her, she'd be quick enough to deflect it.

Originally posted by Enyalus
She can block at least 1500 strikes per second and, according to narration panel statements, has faster reaction times than Superman.

I agree with SS being able to encase her, etc. I just think that if he attempted to blast her, she'd be quick enough to deflect it.

Attacks coming at what speed? Im sure supes has been able to get her with heat vision before.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Attacks coming at what speed? Im sure supes has been able to get her with heat vision before.

Yeah, she has. But it's PIS every time:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_JLA023016.jpg

That's her deflecting HV from Amazo...who was obviously using Superman's powers.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Yeah, she has. But it's PIS every time:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_JLA023016.jpg

That's her deflecting HV from Amazo...who was obviously using Superman's powers.

Well I doubt that evry time supes has hit her with HV or that she has been hit with a blast ( even in her respect thread there are numerous times) it has been PIS glare there is also the thing that surfer wont be staying in one position blasting but attacking from multiple angles.....

........Meh it really doesnt matter as after he encases her she is done for. He can choose to blast her to pieces then or just impale her or just leave her in dat immobile and incapacitated state etc.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
lol at the nonsense . Wonderwoman bullrushed Amazo and so what? SS has much faster bullrushing speed than diana can even imagine. U obviously have no idea what u r talking about ONCE AGAIN. SS doesnt utilize speed in close quarters? In what part of the OP did u see that this fight was close quarter h2h combat? SS is very maneuvrable on his board and is so much faster than Diana its not even funny. She would have almost no chance of lassoing him at all not to mention he can just phase out. He can also use blasts while zipping around on his boards at such speeds so no diana wont be blocking jack. Also encasing her would be easy as hell for SS. SS can encase multiple people with a thought. No matter how fast wonderwoman is running/flying Ss moves at least ( and im being conservative) 1000000 times faster.

So lets see here,

Her lasso is useless in this match
Her H2H speed advantage is irrelevant
SS has movement and manoevrability advantage
SS has evry other advantage in this match.

But somehow Diana wins?

Umm...no just no. SS has superior travelling speed which I never argued, so yeah technically his bullrushing is better but I wasn't talking about a bullrush when I mentioned the Amazo example...since she DIDN'T BULLRUSH but rather blitz behind him which is a big difference. On that note, SS can intiate blast at high speed and yes he can travel at high speeds....but what relevance does that have to a actual battle. What matters is how the characters apply there attributes in a battle situation or in this case speed, and so SS traversing vast distances accross the universe in only a few short momments doesn't have any real importance to this battle nor should it factor in any "vs"debate unless this was a race or something.

Further more, Diana has some of the best reflex/deflecting abilites in comics so to assume SS could even nail a single blast on her is a very gross underestimation of her skill, Besides that, has SS ever shown to incase a target moving with WW's level of speed...has he ever hit a target that is fast enough to blitz behind Amazo while still in his line of sight. Oh and this line just kills me:

"No matter how fast wonderwoman is running/flying Ss moves at least ( and im being conservative) 1000000 times faster. "

What matters is how they apply there speed in combat, WW has applied her speed for more then simple travel. She can also intiat strikes while propeling and maneuverering her body at superspeed as well, unless you have a speed example outside of travelling for SS then what basis is there to suggest he is faster. If anything the evidence strongly supports that she is his superior in speed as it relates to a combat situation...so really dude what are you basing ur opinion on cause clearly it isn't based of anything on-panel that we have seen.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Umm...no just no. SS has superior travelling speed which I never argued, so yeah technically his bullrushing is better but I wasn't talking about a bullrush when I mentioned the Amazo example...since she DIDN'T BULLRUSH but rather blitz behind him which is a big difference. On that note, SS can intiate blast at high speed and yes he can travel at high speeds....but what relevance does that have to a actual battle. What matters is how the characters apply there attributes in a battle situation or in this case speed, and so SS traversing vast distances accross the universe in only a few short momments doesn't have any real importance to this battle nor should it factor in any "vs"debate unless this was a race or something.

Further more, Diana has some of the best reflex/deflecting abilites in comics so to assume SS could even nail a single blast on her is a very gross underestimation of her skill, Besides that, has SS ever shown to incase a target moving with WW's level of speed...has he ever hit a target that is fast enough to blitz behind Amazo while still in his line of sight.

Galen - did you read the issue? Amazo was not only physically damaged, but psychologically as well. His programming was conflicting with Red Tornado's. He was not at optimum levels - mentally or physically. Her blitzing behind him isn't much of a feat. He was busy attempting to gain control over the Red Tornado programming still in his system at the time. He wasn't giving her full attention. And the only one who seems to be in awe of her speed there is Red Arrow.

So...don't distort things.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Umm...no just no. SS has superior travelling speed which I never argued, so yeah technically his bullrushing is better but I wasn't talking about a bullrush when I mentioned the Amazo example...since she DIDN'T BULLRUSH but rather blitz behind him which is a big difference. On that note, SS can intiate blast at high speed and yes he can travel at high speeds....but what relevance does that have to a actual battle. What matters is how the characters apply there attributes in a battle situation or in this case speed, and so SS traversing vast distances accross the universe in only a few short momments doesn't have any real importance to this battle nor should it factor in any "vs"debate unless this was a race or something.

Further more, Diana has some of the best reflex/deflecting abilites in comics so to assume SS could even nail a single blast on her is a very gross underestimation of her skill, Besides that, has SS ever shown to incase a target moving with WW's level of speed...has he ever hit a target that is fast enough to blitz behind Amazo while still in his line of sight. Oh and this line just kills me:

"No matter how fast wonderwoman is running/flying Ss moves at least ( and im being conservative) 1000000 times faster. "

What matters is how they apply there speed in combat, WW has applied her speed for more then simple travel. She can also intiat strikes while propeling and maneuverering her body at superspeed as well, unless you have a speed example outside of travelling for SS then what basis is there to suggest he is faster. If anything the evidence strongly supports that she is his superior in speed as it relates to a combat situation...so really dude what are you basing ur opinion on cause clearly it isn't based of anything on-panel that we have seen.

Please stop saying things like, "it isnt based of anything that we have seen" . U hardly read any comics so yeah its not surprising that YOU havent seen anything at all.

And are u kidding me? did u really ask what relevance blasting and moving and manoevring at high speed has in battle More proof that u dont know what the hell u r talking about. SS has applied his speed for more than simple travel on quite a few occasions. Thats why i talked about his manoevrability in battle. Now add that manoevrability in battle plus the ability to BLAST ( which if u didnt know is an attack) while in battle and what do u get? U can figure it out cant u? lol at the nonsense.

Further what do u mean by blitz behind Amazo while in his line of sight? what exactly is the definition of a blitz in this case? Cuz what wonderwoman did was rush and tie Amazo in her lasso. Depending on the definition u wud like to use, that is a BULLRUSH. IT certainly isnt a blitz in the sense of initiating multiple attacks. This is because being able to get behind amazo quickly involves her movement speed a category as i said in which SS is at least 100000 times superior. In regards to movement speed SS would be seeing wonderwoman as a statue so encasing her would be easy.

And oh yeah SS has speed is not only straight line travel speed. As i said he is very manoevrable on his board and can attack while manoevring at such high speeds.

Here he shows much more than straight line travel speed. Proof he can and does use his sheer movement speed in battle
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1935/silversurfer199003316ik9.jpg

Here he shows great manoevrability and speed on his board in battle.
Once again, not STRAIGHT LINE TRAVEL SPEED

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/7517/annihilationsilversurferi9.jpg

Another example of surfer combining moving speed and manoevrability in battle. Again not straight line travel speed.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/silversurfer.jpg



Really im tired of this. U obviously dont read any comics and so arguing with u is a big waste any sane persons time.

If everyone's fighting "in character" here's how I see things working out...


Superman

vs Orion= Supes
vs Thor= Thor
vs Wonder Woman= Supes
vs Beta Ray Bill= Supes

Supes= 3 wins

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Silver Surfer

vs Orion= Surfer
vs Thor= Surfer
vs Wonder Woman= Surfer
vs Beta Ray Bill= Surfer

Surfer= 4 wins

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hal Jordan

vs Orion= Hal
vs Thor= Thor
vs Wonder Woman= Hal
vs Beta Ray Bill= Hal

Hal= 3 wins

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sentry

vs Orion= Orion
vs Thor= Thor
vs Wonder Woman= WW
vs Beta Ray Bill= BRB

Sentry= 0 wins

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Victories for Team 1= 6/16
Victories for team 2= 10/16

And unless I'm doing the math wrong(possible since I'm high), that equals out to Team 2 winning 6/10.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Please stop saying things like, "it isnt based of anything that we have seen" . U hardly read any comics so yeah its not surprising that YOU havent seen anything at all.

And are u kidding me? did u really ask what relevance blasting and moving and manoevring at high speed has in battle More proof that u dont know what the hell u r talking about. SS has applied his speed for more than simple travel on quite a few occasions. Thats why i talked about his manoevrability in battle. Now add that manoevrability in battle plus the ability to BLAST ( which if u didnt know is an attack) while in battle and what do u get? U can figure it out cant u? lol at the nonsense.

Further what do u mean by blitz behind Amazo while in his line of sight? what exactly is the definition of a blitz in this case? Cuz what wonderwoman did was rush and tie Amazo in her lasso. Depending on the definition u wud like to use, that is a BULLRUSH. IT certainly isnt a blitz in the sense of initiating multiple attacks. This is because being able to get behind amazo quickly involves her movement speed a category as i said in which SS is at least 100000 times superior. In regards to movement speed SS would be seeing wonderwoman as a statue so encasing her would be easy.

And oh yeah SS has speed is not only straight line travel speed. As i said he is very manoevrable on his board and can attack while manoevring at such high speeds.

Here he shows much more than straight line travel speed. Proof he can and does use his sheer movement speed in battle
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1935/silversurfer199003316ik9.jpg

Here he shows great manoevrability and speed on his board in battle.
Once again, not STRAIGHT LINE TRAVEL SPEED

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/7517/annihilationsilversurferi9.jpg

Another example of surfer combining moving speed and manoevrability in battle. Again not straight line travel speed.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/silversurfer.jpg



Really im tired of this. U obviously dont read any comics and so arguing with u is a big waste any sane persons time.

LMAO, this doesn't refute a single thing I have said...and yes I have seen all this a thousand times before. For one, those are not direct interactions agaisnt opponents minus the last one but umm...it's a simple confirmation that he can intiate blast at high speeds which I even acknowledged. How he applies his mobolity agaisn't opponent is what im looking for...and sure circling agaisnt a opponent with multiple blast is sweet no doubt, but that still only qualifies as"intiating at high speeds and traveling fast". Do you know what applying speed in a combat situation looks like, have ever seen quicksilver or flash and how they fight....thats the definiton of true combat superspeed which WW can do.

You're confusing travelling for combat speed once again, seriously it is pointless to debate because u dont know what combat speed is.

Originally posted by darthgoober
If everyone's fighting "in character" here's how I see things working out...


Superman

vs Orion= Supes
vs Thor= Thor
vs Wonder Woman= Supes
vs Beta Ray Bill= Supes

Supes= 3 wins

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Silver Surfer

vs Orion= Surfer
vs Thor= Surfer
vs Wonder Woman= Surfer
vs Beta Ray Bill= Surfer

Surfer= 4 wins

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hal Jordan

vs Orion= Hal
vs Thor= Thor
vs Wonder Woman= Hal
vs Beta Ray Bill= Hal

Hal= 3 wins

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sentry

vs Orion= Orion
vs Thor= Thor
vs Wonder Woman= WW
vs Beta Ray Bill= BRB

Sentry= 0 wins

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Victories for Team 1= 6/16
Victories for team 2= 10/16

And unless I'm doing the math wrong(possible since I'm high), that equals out to Team 2 winning 6/10.

Don't really see SS taking on Orion or even WW, but for the most part that is correct except supes beats Thor.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Don't really see SS taking on Orion or even WW, but for the most part that is correct except supes beats Thor.

ss would cream wonder woman, and not in a good way.

he could take orion too imo...

i do think clark > thor, though...

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Don't really see SS taking on Orion or even WW, but for the most part that is correct except supes beats Thor.
Yes... we all know that you have a ridiculously low opinion of Surfer's abilities, it goes without saying nowadays. Are you just putting your opinion out there, or do you actually want to discuss in the reasoning behind our calls on WW and Orion?

Thor and Supes can go either way IMO. I only picked Thor because I didn't want to leave any fights with "even split or stalemate", Thor's got a significant upgrade since they last fought, and "in character" I don't see Supes blitzing anymore than he did last time. Plus the math is easier with 6 and 10 then it is 5 and 11...

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Don't really see SS taking on Orion

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_dg-31.jpghttp://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_dg-32.jpghttp://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_dg-36.jpghttp://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_dg-37.jpg

Originally posted by The Great Galen
LMAO, this doesn't refute a single thing I have said...and yes I have seen all this a thousand times before. For one, those are not direct interactions agaisnt opponents minus the last one but umm...it's a simple confirmation that he can intiate blast at high speeds which I even acknowledged. How he applies his mobolity agaisn't opponent is what im looking for...and sure circling agaisnt a opponent with multiple blast is sweet no doubt, but that still only qualifies as"intiating at high speeds and traveling fast". Do you know what applying speed in a combat situation looks like, have ever seen quicksilver or flash and how they fight....thats the definiton of true combat superspeed which WW can do.

You're confusing travelling for combat speed once again, seriously it is pointless to debate because u dont know what combat speed is.

Hmmmm...... lets see, so surfer FIGHTING and intiating multiple blasts while manoevring at superspeeds only qualifies as "initiating blasts while travelling fast" and is irrelevant in COMBAT situations.

Yet somehow when flash and quicksilver are FIGHTING and intiating punches manoevering at super speed its not just "initiating punches while running fast" but is instead "true" COMBAT speed?

LOL. and u say im confused?

Originally posted by Enyalus
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_dg-31.jpghttp://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_dg-32.jpghttp://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_dg-36.jpghttp://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_dg-37.jpg



Non canon.
Like WW loosing to Storm, LOBO loosing to Wolvie ( ), etc.

So it doesn't show anything, except that the writer (Byrne I think) likes Marvel more.

The only canon crossover is JLA/Avengers.

Originally posted by comicfan11
Non canon.
Like WW loosing to Storm, LOBO loosing to Wolvie ( ), etc.

So it doesn't show anything, except that the writer (Byrne I think) likes Marvel more.

The only canon crossover is JLA/Avengers.

I know all that.

And no, I don't think Bryne is biased at all. He's practically the authority on New Gods besides Kirby.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I know all that.

And no, I don't think Bryne is biased at all. He's practically the authority on New Gods besides Kirby.

Byrne is the guy that wrote Genesis...
The authority besides the King would be Simonson IMO...
His Orion was better than anything Byrne wrote.
IMO Fact.

But anyway still non canon = bears no weight in a discussion (at all)

fdgd

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Hmmmm...... lets see, so surfer FIGHTING and intiating multiple blasts while manoevring at superspeeds only qualifies as "initiating blasts while travelling fast" and is irrelevant in COMBAT situations.

Yet somehow when flash and quicksilver are FIGHTING and intiating punches manoevering at super speed its not just "initiating punches while running fast" but is instead "true" COMBAT speed?

LOL. and u say im confused?

Diana once fought through a group of warriors at superspeed, she has displays of combat speed that are similar to flash/quicksilver....SS hasn't done anything like that.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes... we all know that you have a ridiculously low opinion of Surfer's abilities, it goes without saying nowadays. Are you just putting your opinion out there, or do you actually want to discuss in the reasoning behind our calls on WW and Orion?

Thor and Supes can go either way IMO. I only picked Thor because I didn't want to leave any fights with "even split or stalemate", Thor's got a significant upgrade since they last fought, and "in character" I don't see Supes blitzing anymore than he did last time. Plus the math is easier with 6 and 10 then it is 5 and 11...

Well IMO Supes would use his speed, but that's another issue. I believe Orion would win because of being physically stronger,superior MA and combat speed...although SS has the versatility so it would be a close fight. I gave my reasons for why it think SS cant beat WW.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Diana once fought through a group of warriors at superspeed, she has displays of combat speed that are similar to flash/quicksilver....SS hasn't done anything like that.

lack of reading comprehension skills FTW.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Well IMO Supes would use his speed, but that's another issue. I believe Orion would win because of being physically stronger,superior MA and combat speed...although SS has the versatility so it would be a close fight. I gave my reasons for why it think SS cant beat WW.
Orion doesn't have combat speed on Surfer unless you have some proof to back the claim. And aside from Surfer beating Orion as far as pure versatility goes, Surfer also "fights smarter" and is the clear victor of the two IMO for that reason.

And WW would get absolutely wasted by Surfer. He's too fast and maneuverable for her to grab with her lasso given the starting distance between the two, and if she's tries to use the lasso it means her hands will be too occupied to deflect incoming attacks with her bracers.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Orion doesn't have combat speed on Surfer unless you have some proof to back the claim. And aside from Surfer beating Orion as far as pure versatility goes, Surfer also "fights smarter" and is the clear victor of the two IMO for that reason.

And WW would get absolutely wasted by Surfer. He's too fast and maneuverable for her to grab with her lasso given the starting distance between the two, and if she's tries to use the lasso it means her hands will be too occupied to deflect incoming attacks with her bracers.

Don't really know how SS fights smarter lol, if anything Norrin is the worst case of CIS u will find in comics today. Sur ehe has versatilit, if orion doesnt have the harness I could give it to SS....but orion has S beat in MA,physical strength and combat speed. Diana has the combat speed,MA advantage and yes...has better mobility. SS only really goes fast when traveling, really isnt any shinning examples of SS combat speed to be honest.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
lack of reading comprehension skills FTW.

Or knowing the difference between combat speed and travelling.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Don't really know how SS fights smarter lol, if anything Norrin is the worst case of CIS u will find in comics today. Sur ehe has versatilit, if orion doesnt have the harness I could give it to SS....but orion has S beat in MA,physical strength and combat speed. Diana has the combat speed,MA advantage and yes...has better mobility. SS only really goes fast when traveling, really isnt any shinning examples of SS combat speed to be honest. lol1

Originally posted by comicfan11
But anyway still non canon = bears no weight in a discussion (at all)

You missed the point completely. Galen said he couldn't see SS beating Orion. So I showed him SS being Orion.

It was sarcasm. And a clever joke. But no, I had to go and explain it all because of you. Cheap bastard. Ruining my fun.

Yeah but then again what happens if Orion gets SS in a armbar....wait armbars are banned right....

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Yeah but then again what happens if Orion gets SS in a armbar...

He'd phase out of it and then blast Orion's head off with a high dose of Radion.

Originally posted by Enyalus
He'd phase out of it and then blast Orion's head off with a high dose of Radion.

What if Orion has a thanos mask?

Originally posted by The Great Galen
What if Orion has a thanos mask?

He'd say what Eros said...something like, "I've known a mad god. I've seen mad gods. And you? You are no mad god."

SS is not producing a element that is rare and exists only outside the normal dc creation,Orion not held back by pis would demolish jordan sentry or superman and there is no reason he would lose to surfer.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
SS is not producing a element that is rare and exists only outside the normal dc creation,Orion not held back by pis would demolish jordan sentry or superman and there is no reason he would lose to surfer.

Sure he would. Falls under KMC's basic knowledge rules. Plus Cosmic Awareness. The only reason Darkseid doesn't use it often is because it's a rare element. Doesn't mean it's particularly difficult to simulate.

Yeah it does, besides how long would it take is what I would like to know...and besides that cosmic awarness is overatted. On a unrelated note, 3:14 into this clipd is awesome http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NysiCRw1NVU

Originally posted by Enyalus
Sure he would. Falls under KMC's basic knowledge rules. Plus Cosmic Awareness. The only reason Darkseid doesn't use it often is because it's a rare element. Doesn't mean it's particularly difficult to simulate. Yes... because Radion is basic knowledge...

Originally posted by Red Hulk
Yes... because Radion is basic knowledge...

"Each side receives basic knowledge of the other. A good measure of this would be what the general population of the character's homeworld knows."

It wouldn't be?

Prove he can make an element that exists not only outside marvel but outside mainstream dc itself(hint you can't),and its not like orion can't make a shield from the astro force.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Prove he can make an element that exists not only outside marvel but outside mainstream dc itself(hint you can't).

knowing of something's existence and knowing what its composed of are two very different things...

not saying he can or can't make it, though...

Originally posted by Enyalus
"Each side receives basic knowledge of the other. A good measure of this would be what the general population of the character's homeworld knows."

It wouldn't be? Hmm... Bada edited since I last checked...

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Prove he can make an element that exists not only outside marvel but outside mainstream dc itself(hint you can't),and its not like orion can't make a shield from the astro force. Radion exists in our 'universe'...

Really...Ive only seen it in the new gods universe.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Don't really know how SS fights smarter lol, if anything Norrin is the worst case of CIS u will find in comics today. Sur ehe has versatilit, if orion doesnt have the harness I could give it to SS....but orion has S beat in MA,physical strength and combat speed. Diana has the combat speed,MA advantage and yes...has better mobility. SS only really goes fast when traveling, really isnt any shinning examples of SS combat speed to be honest.
Surfer uses his brain and takes out his opponent in a "think outside the box" fashion more often, that's how he's the smarter fighter. Need proof? Take a look at his fights with the Hulk(energy manipulation), Wonder Man and the Vision(energy manipulation), Lunatik(genetic restructuring), Legacy(offensive transmutation), Firelord(energy manipulation), the Obliterator(indirect transmutation) and any number of others. He may not do it right out of the gate, but it doesn't take him long to get there. And Orion doesn't have him beaten in combat speed unless you have proof to support the claim.

And I'll need to see proof supporting WW being more mobile as well. Keep in mind that the opponents start at .5 kilometer's apart, what feats spanning these distances does WW have to support her being more mobile? Because I can post several instances of Surfer scouring cities, and even entire planets in mere seconds...

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Or knowing the difference between combat speed and travelling.

LOL. Point out one of the scans i showed that shows SS "travelling". All of them had SS manoevring at high speeds in a non straight line manner while in battle. One even had him blitzing and blasting multiple targets at superspeed. But oh yeah thats "travelling"

Ur own daft logic is even self contradictory.

SS initiating multiple blasts at superspeeds while IN COMBAT, is somehow irrelevant IN COMBAT situations

And yet flash and quicksilver initiating multiple punches at superspeed while IN COMBAT is different.

You dont even make sense.

element x is no longer the god's weakness. It's used to power mother boxes and the mobius chair. You'd think with all that around they'd be dead.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
lol at the nonsense . Wonderwoman bullrushed Amazo and so what? SS has much faster bullrushing speed than diana can even imagine. U obviously have no idea what u r talking about ONCE AGAIN. SS doesnt utilize speed in close quarters? In what part of the OP did u see that this fight was close quarter h2h combat? SS is very maneuvrable on his board and is so much faster than Diana its not even funny. She would have almost no chance of lassoing him at all not to mention he can just phase out. He can also use blasts while zipping around on his boards at such speeds so no diana wont be blocking jack. Also encasing her would be easy as hell for SS. SS can encase multiple people with a thought. No matter how fast wonderwoman is running/flying Ss moves at least ( and im being conservative) 1000000 times faster. After he renders her immobile he impales her with sharp constructs.

So lets see here,

Her lasso is useless in this match
Her H2H speed advantage is irrelevant
SS has movement and manoevrability advantage
SS has evry other advantage in this match.

But somehow Diana wins or has a chance of winning?

when surfer's blast is reflected back in his face then what?

Originally posted by fangirl101
when surfer's blast is reflected back in his face then what?

SS congratulates her for blocking his blasts, then encases her in an ethel energy shell, and impales her.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Orion doesn't have combat speed on Surfer unless you have some proof to back the claim. And aside from Surfer beating Orion as far as pure versatility goes, Surfer also "fights smarter" and is the clear victor of the two IMO for that reason.

And WW would get absolutely wasted by Surfer. He's too fast and maneuverable for her to grab with her lasso given the starting distance between the two, and if she's tries to use the lasso it means her hands will be too occupied to deflect incoming attacks with her bracers. Orion's energy far outstrips Surfer's. he's also faster, has the MB that is as versatile as Thor and can amp, and Orion is a better fighter and Is faster than surfer. By alot.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
SS congratulates her for blocking his blasts, then encases her in an ethel energy shell, and impales her. because Thor and BRB and Orion are going to be letting this happen? Sentry can be taken out by any of the other three faster than surfer can take out Diana. Unless you show me surfer encashing someone as fast as her in energy. Or is it just as Possible that She can lasso Surfer in less time than it takes for your lil scenario?

Originally posted by fangirl101
because Thor and BRB and Orion are going to be letting this happen? Sentry can be taken out by any of the other three faster than surfer can take out Diana. Unless you show me surfer encashing someone as fast as her in energy. Or is it just as Possible that She can lasso Surfer in less time than it takes for your lil scenario?

Not even close. SS speed and manoevrability straight up shits on dianas. Also SS can pull off multiple encasements with a thought. Much quicker than the time she has to try and lasso him ( which wud be a futile exercise anyhow).

and oh yeah this scenario only occurs if SS somehow gets into a one on one with wonderwoman ( may not be likely to happen but im only discussing what would happen if it did).

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Not even close. SS speed and manoevrability straight up shits on dianas. Also SS can pull off multiple encasements with a thought. Much quicker than the time she has to try and lasso him ( which wud be a futile exercise anyhow).

and oh yeah this scenario only occurs if SS somehow gets into a one on one with wonderwoman ( may not be likely to happen but im only discussing what would happen if it did).
surfer's travel speed is better than Diana's. She shits all over him when it come it comes to combat speed and reflexes. And that is the truth. Stop wanking surfer. He has a hard time with Bricks like the hulk unless he uses some energy draining win. That won't happen with Diana.She could easily Hold Surfer Off for as Long as she did Amazo. She only has to Hold him off until Who ever fight's Sentry wins.

Originally posted by fangirl101
He has a hard time with Bricks like the hulk unless he uses some energy draining win. He does?

Originally posted by fangirl101
He has a hard time with Bricks like the hulk unless he uses some energy draining win. Not wanting to kill Hulk and other bricks is having hard time?

Originally posted by fangirl101
He has a hard time with Bricks like the hulk unless he uses some energy draining win.

Hulk is pretty much a nonentity when he fights Surfer.

Having a hard time with Hulk is not a bad thing also check Hulks record.

Gladiator , Thor , Avengers etc all has harder time with Hulk than Surfer

I just don't see how WW beats SS. Lord knows I love her, but I don't see her KO'ing him and I doubt Tiara decap would work. She would probably be able to deflect most of his energy attacks but he would just change strategies and encase her in something. If she lasso'ed him then he could phase out of it, right?

This is just what if's of course. I really doubt that he would go after her. More likely than not the characters that know each other best will head straight for each other, which means . . .
WW vs Supes
Thor vs Surfer
leaving . . .
Orion vs Hal
BRB vs Sentry

Bill wins his match pretty easily and in plenty of time to go over and help Thor finish off SS. I'm very confident that both Diana and Orion can keep their opponents occupied long enough for the brothers to finish up and come lend a hand. In *this* particular scenario, Team 1 wins.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
In *this* particular scenario, Team 1 wins.

I think Team One wins the majority of the time, too.

Is it wrong if I think that Orion is the weak link on the team, though?

Originally posted by Enyalus


Is it wrong if I think that Orion is the weak link on the team, though?

Wonder Woman is the weakest link.

Team 1.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Wonder Woman is the weakest link.

After seeing some of her battles against Superman and Amazo, I'm not so sure.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Is it wrong if I think that Orion is the weak link on the team, though?

yes, tbh...

Originally posted by Raoul
yes, tbh...

I'll reread Genesis (Don't have any other New God material except for DOTNG) again, but with standard gear isn't he simply a brick who isn't strong enough to take down Superman, with a harness that shoots beams?

That's pretty one dimensional, right? I mean, Wonder Woman written properly (using her lasso and all) should be able to do at least that well against Superman.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I'll reread Genesis (Don't have any other New God material except for DOTNG) again, but with standard gear isn't he simply a brick who isn't strong enough to take down Superman, with a harness that shoots beams?

That's pretty one dimensional, right? I mean, Wonder Woman written properly (using her lasso and all) should be able to do at least that well against Superman.

he's said to be equal to superman in strength, and they've fought enough to make it a reasonable statement. his 'beams' as you said, are focused blasts of the astro force. the astro force is insanely powerful.

he also has a mother box...

DOTNG isn't great, tbh... for general NG stuff, kirby's fourth world would be a good place to start imo...

Originally posted by Enyalus
After seeing some of her battles against Superman and Amazo, I'm not so sure.


She's impressive, but the rest of the team is even more so.


Originally posted by Enyalus
I'll reread Genesis (Don't have any other New God material except for DOTNG) again, but with standard gear isn't he simply a brick who isn't strong enough to take down Superman, with a harness that shoots beams?

That's pretty one dimensional, right? I mean, Wonder Woman written properly (using her lasso and all) should be able to do at least that well against Superman.

Astro Force is as versatile as Thors uru hammer.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I'll reread Genesis (Don't have any other New God material except for DOTNG) again, but with standard gear isn't he simply a brick who isn't strong enough to take down Superman, with a harness that shoots beams?

That's pretty one dimensional, right? I mean, Wonder Woman written properly (using her lasso and all) should be able to do at least that well against Superman.

Not this again. Orion isn't a brick and has shown his versatility through the MB and Astro Force. Not only has he gone toe to toe with Superman, but he has taken him down as well.

Is Orion FTL combat speed?

Originally posted by cloud102
Not this again. Orion isn't a brick and has shown his versatility through the MB and Astro Force. Not only has he gone toe to toe with Superman, but he has taken him down as well.

My bad. As I freely admitted, I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to New God stuff. Just seemed to me like most of the appearances I've seen, he hits people hard and fires energy blasts, while getting his MB to heal him. And that's about it.

Originally posted by Enyalus
My bad. As I freely admitted, I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to New God stuff. Just seemed to me like most of the appearances I've seen, he hits people hard and fires energy blasts, while getting his MB to heal him. And that's about it.

Yeah, that's how a lot of writers like to write him. Morrison on the other hand made him create the Genesis Box, which restarted the universe and wiped it clean of Darkseid's taint. A high for Orion.

Waid on the otherhand had him weakened by FIRE. sigh.

Simonson had him do a variety of stuff with the Astro Force and Mother Box.

In one run of the New Gods, Orion defeated Darkseid by jumping INSIDE his body. I forgot some of the details as I haven't read the story in a while.

Was Rock of Ages even canon?

Yes.

team 2

supes and ss dominate

Superman,Silver Surfer, Hal Jordan, Sentry

hands down.
I mean Superman and Silver Surfer are stronger than anyone on the other team. So unless team 1 has some Kryptonite they are in trouble. Moreover, the Sentry is probably really strong. Comparable to Superman and Silver Surfer. Orion and Thor are the strongest on the other team but they still lose.

Orion takes down superman,BB takes care of hal,thor stalemates surfer,and ww keeps sentry busy till she can get help.

Originally posted by fangirl101
surfer's travel speed is better than Diana's. She shits all over him when it come it comes to combat speed and reflexes. And that is the truth. Stop wanking surfer. He has a hard time with Bricks like the hulk unless he uses some energy draining win. That won't happen with Diana.She could easily Hold Surfer Off for as Long as she did Amazo. She only has to Hold him off until Who ever fight's Sentry wins.

Stop making a fool of urself with daft statements . Ive already provided examples of surfer using his extremely quick movement speed and manoeuvring in BATTLE. Surfer makes use of his movement speed in combat so yeah he is way to manoevrable and fast to get hit by diana's lasso. The only thing diana is better than him at is pure H2H speed and that is irrelevant in this match considering how fast SS can move and blast.

LOL. SS has a hard time with Bricks like Hulk? U are obviously confused and have absolutely no idea what the hell u are talking about. Have u ever read any SS vs Hulk fight?

Lord!, the level of nonsense that some posters spout is just unbelievable

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Orion takes down superman,BB takes care of hal,thor stalemates surfer,and ww keeps sentry busy till she can get help.

Wow honestly?! That is so wrong and farfetched it is comical. And I agree with everything you said ultimatethor

Its exactly how it would go,Orion is a high herald level character when not held back by PIS,the astro force would drop superman,thor has stalemated surfer everytime they fought,BB can at the very least stalemate with hal and Diana is more then enough to keep sentry busy,go read some new gods comics and get back to me.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Its exactly how it would go,Orion is a high herald level character when not held back by PIS,the astro force would drop superman,thor has stalemated surfer everytime they fought,BB can at the very least stalemate with hal and Diana is more then enough to keep sentry busy,go read some new gods comics and get back to me.

Circumstances have come into play in all thor and surfers fights

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Its exactly how it would go,Orion is a high herald level character when not held back by PIS,the astro force would drop superman,thor has stalemated surfer everytime they fought,BB can at the very least stalemate with hal and Diana is more then enough to keep sentry busy,go read some new gods comics and get back to me.

Superman would beat Orion to a bloody pulp. The others I don't know. Maybe Thor could take the Silver Surfer, I will look into it. But no way Diana takes down the Sentry. She won't be able to buy enough time for someone to come to her aid. Honestly, Sentry will mess her up. I mean she lost to storm okay, in the marvel dc crossover over comic. That says something.

Superman gets dropped,orion is his physical equal in every way and the astro force>>>>>>>>>>anything superman has in his arsenal,orion under his own power has reversed universal ending energies,LOL at using marvel vs dc for any comparison ww has held her own against superman level foes time and time again,one shot from the astro force from a serious orion and superman is splattered.

Actually Simonson has stated Orion stronger and in Superman Confidential, Orion takes down Superman. In DONG, Orion and Superman go toe to toe and seem even. In Cosmic Odyssey, Orion actually holds back and in the crossover with the villain who can mess with reality, Orion is brought in to take down a super charged Superman because it is said he is the only one. Yeah, Superman isn't his superior.

Originally posted by Silent Guardian
Superman would beat Orion to a bloody pulp. The others I don't know. Maybe Thor could take the Silver Surfer, I will look into it. But no way Diana takes down the Sentry. She won't be able to buy enough time for someone to come to her aid. Honestly, Sentry will mess her up. I mean she lost to storm okay, in the marvel dc crossover over comic. That says something.


Wow, you really didn't just say that did you? lol You do realize that the results of those fights were determined by fan votes. That's the same issue Wolverine beat Lobo, isn't it? Diana puts down Mjolnir because it wouldn't be fair? If you honestly believe that Storm has a chance in Tartarus against WW then I really can't take anything that you say seriously.

This is my opinion, but Sentry's recent showings make me feel that he is the weakest link in all of these fights. If the match ups go the way you've outlined them, then team 1 will win. Diana will beat Sentry and then help Bill with Hal. I give the slight edge to Orion against Clark (MB gives him too many possibilities.) I actually think Surfer would eventually beat Thor after quite a battle, but I'm not willing to bet that it happens before the other fights are finished.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Stop making a fool of urself with daft statements . Ive already provided examples of surfer using his extremely quick movement speed and manoeuvring in BATTLE. Surfer makes use of his movement speed in combat so yeah he is way to manoevrable and fast to get hit by diana's lasso. The only thing diana is better than him at is pure H2H speed and that is irrelevant in this match considering how fast SS can move and blast.

LOL. SS has a hard time with Bricks like Hulk? U are obviously confused and have absolutely no idea what the hell u are talking about. Have u ever read any SS vs Hulk fight?

Lord!, the level of nonsense that some posters spout is just unbelievable

You havn't proven anything, just SS travel speed and thats about it. You obviosuly don't understand what combat speed is, although if you've ever seen flash,QS or even a DBZ fight you would have a idea of what it's supposed to look like. There are basically 3 aspects to what constitutes true combat speed, that being mobility and intiation and reflex. Mobility would be how they move about in the battlefield and intiation being how fast they can strike...and reflex is obviously how they react. SS has never applied the speed you posted agaisnt a opponent, sure he can intiate blast which I give him credit for...but he hardly bullrushed let alone converting his travel speed into battle.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
You havn't proven anything, just SS travel speed and thats about it. You obviosuly don't understand what combat speed is, although if you've ever seen flash,QS or even a DBZ fight you would have a idea of what it's supposed to look like. There are basically 3 aspects to what constitutes true combat speed, that being mobility and intiation and reflex. Mobility would be how they move about in the battlefield and intiation being how fast they can strike...and reflex is obviously how they react. SS has never applied the speed you posted agaisnt a opponent, sure he can intiate blast which I give him credit for...but he hardly bullrushed let alone converting his travel speed into battle.


lol. He hardly bullrushed? Do u really expect people to take u seriously when u can actually look at whats on panel and ignore it?
LOL. Once again u show that u have the comprehension of a toddler. In the scans i showed SS made use of his mobility and manoevring across the battle field, initiated multiple attacks against multiple targets and was also able to dodge and avoid attacks from those same targets hence showing his reactions. I beg of u not to dodge the question again and point out one scan in which SS was purely "travelling". Obviously though u cant thats why u keep dodging the question and coming up with stupid replies that actually further prove SS has does in fact have combat speed.

What a joke.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
lol. He hardly bullrushed? Do u really expect people to take u seriously when u can actually look at whats on panel and ignore it?
LOL. Once again u show that u have the comprehension of a toddler. In the scans i showed SS made use of his mobility and manoevring across the battle field, initiated multiple attacks against multiple targets and was also able to dodge and avoid attacks from those same targets hence showing his reactions. I beg of u not to dodge the question again and point out one scan in which SS was purely "travelling". Obviously though u cant thats why u keep dodging the question and coming up with stupid replies that actually further prove SS has does in fact have combat speed.

What a joke.



What you showed wwas totallty unrelated to combat speed, it isn't the samething in any shape or form. True combat speed is what somone liek flash or quicksilver would do, someone like supes or even logan already potrayed this so....man ur just clueless all around.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Orion's energy far outstrips Surfer's. he's also faster, has the MB that is as versatile as Thor and can amp, and Orion is a better fighter and Is faster than surfer. By alot.
Proof of Orion being far faster or having far better energy output?

Originally posted by The Great Galen
You havn't proven anything, just SS travel speed and thats about it. You obviosuly don't understand what combat speed is, although if you've ever seen flash,QS or even a DBZ fight you would have a idea of what it's supposed to look like. There are basically 3 aspects to what constitutes true combat speed, that being mobility and intiation and reflex. Mobility would be how they move about in the battlefield and intiation being how fast they can strike...and reflex is obviously how they react. SS has never applied the speed you posted agaisnt a opponent, sure he can intiate blast which I give him credit for...but he hardly bullrushed let alone converting his travel speed into battle.

Noone on the battle field fights anywhere close to anyone on dbz, stop bring them up.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Proof of Orion being far faster or having far better energy output?

I'd say there energy output is the same, really depends on which gear Orion is packing but a standard Orion energy output is equal to SS IMO. In terms of combat speed, Orion doesn't have supes/flash/QS h2h speed but he can propel his body into superspeed much like DS...but his MA talent is vastly beyond SS.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
I'd say there energy output is the same, really depends on which gear Orion is packing but a standard Orion energy output is equal to SS IMO. In terms of combat speed, Orion doesn't have supes/flash/QS h2h speed but he can propel his body into superspeed much like DS...but his MA talent is vastly beyond SS.
Surfer's energy output has created large black holes as a side effect, what does standard Orion have that makes him Surfer's equal in that department?

And if Orion doesn't have combat speed(the way you describe it anyway), then why did you claim that his combat speed is far better than Surfer's before? Do you have any proof to support the claim that Orion's faster?

Team 2.

This thread isn't fair tbh.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
What you showed wwas totallty unrelated to combat speed, it isn't the samething in any shape or form. True combat speed is what somone liek flash or quicksilver would do, someone like supes or even logan already potrayed this so....man ur just clueless all around.

More dodging. Im asking u again to bring up the scans i showed and explain to me how they were all unrelated to combat speed. Really u gave ur defintion of combat speed and those scans fulfill them perfectly.

But since u dont even know what u urself are talking about let me point out the criteria u gave for combat speed

1.- Mobility across the battlefiled- The scans i provided showed SS manoevring at high speeds across the battlefield while IN BATTLE

2.- initiation of atacks at high speed- The Scans showed SS initiating blasts while manoevring at high speeds as well.

3- reflexes- Scans showed SS dodging attacks while manoevring at high speeds and intiating counter attacks of his own as well.

Now can u please justify ur claim that it has nothing to do with combat speed even though it satisfies all the criteria u even provided.
And please try to come up with a better answer than "all he was doing was travelling"

Originally posted by darthgoober
Surfer's energy output has created large black holes as a side effect, what does standard Orion have that makes him Surfer's equal in that department?

And if Orion doesn't have combat speed(the way you describe it anyway), then why did you claim that his combat speed is far better than Surfer's before? Do you have any proof to support the claim that Orion's faster?

He can propel is body in h2h to superspeed which SS can't, SS doesn't ultalize speed when fight opponents. In the situations when SS has relied on nothing but MA, he hasn't even propelled his body to the effect that DS and Orion do. I'm assuming this is Orion with the astro foce, although FG might imply something else by standard gear.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
More dodging. Im asking u again to bring up the scans i showed and explain to me how they were all unrelated to combat speed. Really u gave ur defintion of combat speed and those scans fulfill them perfectly.

But since u dont even know what u urself are talking about let me point out the criteria u gave for combat speed

1.- Mobility across the battlefiled- The scans i provided showed SS manoevring at high speeds across the battlefield while IN BATTLE

2.- initiation of atacks at high speed- The Scans showed SS initiating blasts while manoevring at high speeds as well.

3- reflexes- Scans showed SS dodging attacks while manoevring at high speeds and intiating counter attacks of his own as well.

Now can u please justify ur claim that it has nothing to do with combat speed even though it satisfies all the criteria u even provided.
And please try to come up with a better answer than "all he was doing was travelling"

It wasn't agaisnt a opponent, SS destroying ships at superspeed doesn't mean he can fight at those speeds....which nearly every fight agaisnt opponents prove. Destroying ships doesnt equal h2h speed....srry to break the news.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
It wasn't agaisnt a opponent, SS destroying ships at superspeed doesn't mean he can fight at those speeds....which nearly every fight agaisnt opponents prove. Destroying ships doesnt equal h2h speed....srry to break the news.

lol. I was just waiting for this foolish line of thought.

1.SS was acually FIGHTING the ships at those speeds using blasts.
2. U really must be a RETARD. H2H speed is not = to combat speed. SS does not have to use punches as attacks to show combat speed. He makes use of blasts not punches. SS does not fight h2h regularly, he makes use of BLASTS. This is NOT a h2h fight. Do u get that? No where in the OP is it indicated that this fight is limited to h2h. Go learn how to read.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
lol. I was just waiting for this foolish line of thought.

1.SS was acually FIGHTING the ships at those speeds using blasts.
2. U really must be a RETARD. H2H speed is not = to combat speed. SS does not have to use punches as attacks to show combat speed. He makes use of blasts not punches. SS does not fight h2h regularly, he makes use of BLASTS. This is NOT a h2h fight. Do u get that? No where in the OP is it indicated that this fight is limited to h2h. Go learn how to read.

Does you're mon and dad know you use the internet, besides that point he doesnt have sueprspeed combat speed so wat r u going on about. Combat speed would be how he applies his speed during fights with opponents jack.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Does you're mon and dad know you use the internet?

So where back to ur old tactics of dodging and trying to derail the thread with lame flame attempts. Pathetic.

Ur post didnt even make sense. Combat speed would be how he applies his speed in fights with opponents? And what he does against Deathurge counts as what? Oh let me guess "travelling"?

ultimate thor and galen, i'm going to ask you nicely. stop bashing, please.

i really think you should either agree to disagree, or stick each other on ignore...

i don't want to have to close this thread...

Originally posted by The Great Galen
He can propel is body in h2h to superspeed which SS can't, SS doesn't ultalize speed when fight opponents. In the situations when SS has relied on nothing but MA, he hasn't even propelled his body to the effect that DS and Orion do. I'm assuming this is Orion with the astro foce, although FG might imply something else by standard gear.
Wrong, Surfer can and does utilize speed in combat. If you want to do a feat to feat comparison then you can start off since you're the one claiming it'll be a deciding factor in the fight.

Originally posted by Raoul
ultimate thor and galen, i'm going to ask you nicely. stop bashing, please.

i really think you should either agree to disagree, or stick each other on ignore...

i don't want to have to close this thread...

Yes you do.

Do it Paul! Do it! Close the thread! BAN THEM ALL!

Team 2.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
So where back to ur old tactics of dodging and trying to derail the thread with lame flame attempts. Pathetic.

Ur post didnt even make sense. Combat speed would be how he applies his speed in fights with opponents? And what he does against Deathurge counts as what? Oh let me guess "travelling"?

SS does not have combat speed, how many times do we have to go through this. If he used speed agaisnt a opponent and not a bunch of ships then yeah I would concede and u would have a point...but ur equating combat speed with some that is completly unrelated.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Wrong, Surfer can and does utilize speed in combat. If you want to do a feat to feat comparison then you can start off since you're the one claiming it'll be a deciding factor in the fight.

lol u have showed me these"combat speed"feats before....it was rather pathetic.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
lol u have showed me these"combat speed"feats before....it was rather pathetic.
Well let's compare them to Orion's. You start...


And I'd be careful if I was you. You're just back from being banned and you're already coming dangerously close to trolling...

Originally posted by darthgoober
Well let's compare them to Orion's. You start...


And I'd be careful if I was you. You're just back from being banned and you're already coming dangerously close to trolling...

Wow this is a shock, ur bashing again....then again it isn't like ur credibility can't get any lower. Although I alread saw the scans of SS h2h speed....dude its not superspeed how many times do we have to go through this.

Originally posted by Raoul
ultimate thor and galen, i'm going to ask you nicely. stop bashing, please.

i really think you should either agree to disagree, or stick each other on ignore...

i don't want to have to close this thread...

Galen does this all the time. Takes a fight that clearly is not limited to H2H and then attempts to say, since Opponent X isn't as good in H2H situations as Opponent Y, he loses. When in actuality it has very little bearing on the fight. Surfer has won plenty of fights against plenty of powerful opponents without needing to resort to H2H.

Unless he can prove it would need to come down to H2H IMO he should be told to drop the line of thought.

Well I don't SS can"blast away"at Diana if thats wat ur thinking, IMO what offensive options does he really have agaisnt someone as fast and skilled as her....and from ive heard so far it isnt that impressive.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Well I don't SS can"blast away"at Diana if thats wat ur thinking, IMO what offensive options does he really have agaisnt someone as fast and skilled as her....and from ive heard so far it isnt that impressive.

Originally posted by Classic NES


Trolling again?

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Trolling again?

Just pointing out something that is horribly wrong.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Wow this is a shock, ur bashing again....then again it isn't like ur credibility can't get any lower. Although I alread saw the scans of SS h2h speed....dude its not superspeed how many times do we have to go through this.
That wasn't bashing. That was me reminding you of pr's post...

Originally posted by Raoul
you know bloody well how.

if you have an opinion, then back it up. don't clog up threads by saying the same thing over and over. that's trolling.

I'm trying to keep you from getting banned for doing the same thing you got in trouble for before. I mean if you'd rather I just used the report button to bring an end to the nonsense that's fine, I just figured you'd rather hear it from me before you actually got into trouble than hear it from a mod afterwards since it'll probably be accompanied by a ban...

And Surfer's feats are just as much speed feats as Orion's are, how many times do I have to tell you? Of course if you want we can start that comparison any time you're ready...

Originally posted by Enyalus
Galen does this all the time. Takes a fight that clearly is not limited to H2H and then attempts to say, since Opponent X isn't as good in H2H situations as Opponent Y, he loses. When in actuality it has very little bearing on the fight. Surfer has won plenty of fights against plenty of powerful opponents without needing to resort to H2H.

Unless he can prove it would need to come down to H2H IMO he should be told to drop the line of thought.

i appreciate that you're trying to help, but it's ok, i got this, as the man said...