Shin Akuma and Ken VS. Heihachi and Ryu

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k1Lla441
I dont know much about street fighter, but i know enough to think you guys might like this match. If i need to be a lil more specific on the exact versions of the fighters, please ask, as i dont know much about it.

The bout consists of 3 matches:

1. A normal elimination match (as in if 1 person gets killed/KOed, the teammate has to continue on by themself) in a normal circle arena.

2. A match in an indestructible maze, meaning that the only way to kill your oponent is to find them, which is crucial for speed and endurance. Also, if one person dies on the team that team loses., so no deaths are aloud for the win.

3. The final match is in a very large forest and puts ken and ryu on the line as in the first team to kill ken/ryu of the opposing team wins. So any kills on Heihachi/Akuma do not count and they instantly get revived if that happens.

Besides that, happy debating.

KN7JL3
Too exhausted to determine rules for each match, so in a real match, Akuma and Ken take it.

Ryu or Heihachi will beat Ken, just as Akuma would defeat either on team 2, so team 1 wins.

Terryc250
Shin Akuma would solo the team

Sado22
well, its not a stomp. if Shin akuma could be knocked around by ryu in SF4 intro then he can get knocked around by Hachi. on top of that, Hachi can practically shrug of the projectiles from Akuma since he can and has taken worse things than being hit by a kick.

if Hachi can hang in there with akuma long enough for Ryu to beat Ken, then ryu and hachi can double team akuma and win. the same can happen with Hachi fighting Ken and ryu fighing akuma. akuma and ryu can trade blows for some time which would be more than enough for Hachi to smack around Ken. Ken has nothing on Hachi. This way, again, Hachi and Ryu double team akuma and win.

Team2 6/10

~Sado

k1Lla441
Originally posted by Sado22
well, its not a stomp. if Shin akuma could be knocked around by ryu in SF4 intro then he can get knocked around by Hachi. on top of that, Hachi can practically shrug of the projectiles from Akuma since he can and has taken worse things than being hit by a kick.

if Hachi can hang in there with akuma long enough for Ryu to beat Ken, then ryu and hachi can double team akuma and win. the same can happen with Hachi fighting Ken and ryu fighing akuma. akuma and ryu can trade blows for some time which would be more than enough for Hachi to smack around Ken. Ken has nothing on Hachi. This way, again, Hachi and Ryu double team akuma and win.

Team2 6/10

~Sado
This sould probably be the outcome of the match in match 1 and 3, but in match 2 i see team 1 taking this, i dont know why but i think they have the speed to beat team 2, as heihachi seems kinda slow compared to team 1.....

Dark-Jaxx
Originally posted by Sado22
well, its not a stomp. if Shin akuma could be knocked around by ryu in SF4 intro then he can get knocked around by Hachi. on top of that, Hachi can practically shrug of the projectiles from Akuma since he can and has taken worse things than being hit by a kick.

if Hachi can hang in there with akuma long enough for Ryu to beat Ken, then ryu and hachi can double team akuma and win. the same can happen with Hachi fighting Ken and ryu fighing akuma. akuma and ryu can trade blows for some time which would be more than enough for Hachi to smack around Ken. Ken has nothing on Hachi. This way, again, Hachi and Ryu double team akuma and win.

Team2 6/10

~Sado 1. Gouki(who was NOT Shin) dominated most of the fight, with Ryu getting a few hits in and a throw, but Gouki clearly being superior. And based on strength and speed, Ryu is much more able to fight Gouki than Ryu is, as Hachi's speed and strength have not yet proven to be as great. Oh, and it was stated that Ryu's NORMAL Hadouken is a kick, not Gouki's, unlike Ryu, Gouki's Hadoukens are meant to kill, and then he has more variation than that. And Heihachi has been physically beaten by Jin. Who is undeniably less powerful in terms of physical output than Gouki, you know, the guy who destroyed an island, kicked a sunken ship in half(and destroyed a submarine with a shockwave) and split a small mountain? Hell, the explosion that Hachi survived from the Jacks was not even as powerful as some of Gouki's attacks.

And Ryu has never fought SHIN Gouki, nor has anyone else for that matter. But we know it is much stronger than his normal, holding back form. Hachi smack around Ken? Well although Ken is not as strong as Ryu, we do in fact know that physically he is similar, he doesn't hit as hard but is faster, and is less skilled, so the idea that Hachi will smack around Ken is laughable. And Gouki is stronger than Hachi(by alot), and stronger than Ryu, with Ken being nearly up to Ryu's level.

Team 1 8/10.

Sado22
come on, not this "shin" shite again. there is no way we can say he was or wasn't holding back considering he don't hold back against worthy opponents (though ryu being worthy is a joke imo).
as for shitstomping ryu for the most part of it, agreed but ryu always has the hogan routine to tap into...as he did in the video laughing out loud


confused
i assume you mean ryu is more capable of fighting akuma than hachi. well, speed wise, yeah but IMO he aint got nothing on it in terms of power and durability. sure he could lift a 10 (?) ton boulder but that's not reflective of how hard he can hit considering that even his hadouken just feels like a kick and can only push people backwards. lifting a 10ton boulder is comparable while being pushed to his limits as opposed to Hachi who could smash armor plated robots to bits and he was seen effortlessly picking a jack5 (200-300kgs) with one hand. imo he's shown to hit harder and he's got tons of stamina and durability on his side too. Hachi durability>>Ryu's.


look up.


actually gouki's normal hadoukens are weaker than ryu's. ryu's were reported on being the strongest in the shotoclones.


there are several things wrong with this:
-jin is a hybrid of the THREE stongest bloodlines in tekkenverse. his physical power is practically insane given that by just having the devil powers activated he was able to splatter Ogre all over the place....somebody who could shake the earth. now i'm getting tired of "jin beat ogre therefor ogre is weak" crap. i can use that and tell you that gouki is shite cuz he was evenly fought by ryu in SF4 intro. see how it can go both ways and how you guys are using double standards. please tell me what ryu has done that makes what he did to gouki in that trailer even excusable? nothing.
-don't even make me mention Jin's durability where he takes a blow so hard he goes smacking into a boulder that dusted on impact and he just sat there only confused as to why asuka did it.
-destroying island part is dealt IN DETAIL in my theories section. go see for yourself.
-kicking sunken ship in half, yeah, cool.
-destroyed a submarine......no proof.
-split a mountain, yeah, cool again.


there's no way you can prove or support it so why go there?


dude, ken was put in a pinch by no-name karate dude who happened to toss him in to the ring with a throw. ken has no durability, has no power feats, heck he has no feats. period. compared to someone like hachi who outclasses him in all departments:
-power
-experience
-durability
-phsyical strength

the only thing ken's got going for him is speed but that wont matter cuz hachi can soak shots explosions, get smacked through pillars, fall from great hieghts and get up like nothing happened. its no exaggeration to say that hachi will "broken toy" ken to defeat. being ryu's friend is no feat. nor is beating him when he's got his head up his @$$ a feat. i like ken but he's not doing anything in my book if he's got no feats.

~Sado

k1Lla441
uuuu, looks like we got a street fighter-knowledge pro on our hands. seems like jaxx has some big competition.....

Dark-Jaxx
Originally posted by Sado22
come on, not this "shin" shite again. there is no way we can say he was or wasn't holding back considering he don't hold back against worthy opponents (though ryu being worthy is a joke imo).
as for shitstomping ryu for the most part of it, agreed but ryu always has the hogan routine to tap into...as he did in the video laughing out loud


confused
i assume you mean ryu is more capable of fighting akuma than hachi. well, speed wise, yeah but IMO he aint got nothing on it in terms of power and durability. sure he could lift a 10 (?) ton boulder but that's not reflective of how hard he can hit considering that even his hadouken just feels like a kick and can only push people backwards. lifting a 10ton boulder is comparable while being pushed to his limits as opposed to Hachi who could smash armor plated robots to bits and he was seen effortlessly picking a jack5 (200-300kgs) with one hand. imo he's shown to hit harder and he's got tons of stamina and durability on his side too. Hachi durability>>Ryu's.


look up.


actually gouki's normal hadoukens are weaker than ryu's. ryu's were reported on being the strongest in the shotoclones.


there are several things wrong with this:
-jin is a hybrid of the THREE stongest bloodlines in tekkenverse. his physical power is practically insane given that by just having the devil powers activated he was able to splatter Ogre all over the place....somebody who could shake the earth. now i'm getting tired of "jin beat ogre therefor ogre is weak" crap. i can use that and tell you that gouki is shite cuz he was evenly fought by ryu in SF4 intro. see how it can go both ways and how you guys are using double standards. please tell me what ryu has done that makes what he did to gouki in that trailer even excusable? nothing.
-don't even make me mention Jin's durability where he takes a blow so hard he goes smacking into a boulder that dusted on impact and he just sat there only confused as to why asuka did it.
-destroying island part is dealt IN DETAIL in my theories section. go see for yourself.
-kicking sunken ship in half, yeah, cool.
-destroyed a submarine......no proof.
-split a mountain, yeah, cool again.


there's no way you can prove or support it so why go there?


dude, ken was put in a pinch by no-name karate dude who happened to toss him in to the ring with a throw. ken has no durability, has no power feats, heck he has no feats. period. compared to someone like hachi who outclasses him in all departments:
-power
-experience
-durability
-phsyical strength

the only thing ken's got going for him is speed but that wont matter cuz hachi can soak shots explosions, get smacked through pillars, fall from great hieghts and get up like nothing happened. its no exaggeration to say that hachi will "broken toy" ken to defeat. being ryu's friend is no feat. nor is beating him when he's got his head up his @$$ a feat. i like ken but he's not doing anything in my book if he's got no feats.

~Sado 1. Other than we know Shin looks different than normal Gouki? For one his hair is white. His hair was red when fighting Ryu. And he was shit-stomping Ryu? Because I could have SWORN you just said Ryu was holding his own. eek!

2. His Hadouken feels like a kick, yeah. A kick from who though? Most likely from Ryu, but you are implying it is like a kick from the average joe. And I don't think you really get how strong lifting ten tons makes you, as far as striking goes, and when backed up by Ryu's superior speed, he would demolish the cannon-fodder bottom tier Jacks. Hachi ever tanked a punch from a dude who destroys islands with punches? And out of curiosity, when was that "Hadouken=Kick" bullshit even STATED? By Tiamat I assume?

3. Which is incorrect based on the sole fact that Gouki's can kill, Ryu's cannot. And Gouki fires Gou Hadoukens, not Hadoukens, does he not?

4. 1. Can you prove Ogre had the durability though? Considering the fact that power output=/=Durability, as fictions such as DBZ clearly show. And has Devil Within ever been confirmed as canon? Gouki was fought evenly by Ryu in the SF4 intro? B-but I thought you just said Ryu was getting shit-stomped by Gouki! eek! You have changed your opinion three times in a total of two posts. And he got like...2-3 hits in on Gouki, one of which was a throw which did not even hurt him, and Gouki has pre-established durability feats, so Ryu being able to hurt him is a feat for Ryu.

2. And has been taken down by tranqs. Whereas Gouki withstood the pressure of 1,000 meters under the sea.

3. I don't care about your "theories." Gouki punched an island with what was never confirmed to be more than a punch, and said island disappeared. He destroyed an island with a punch. Either that or he "took it out of existence" lol.

4. Yeah, with one of those kicks, he would at least KO Hachi, probably kill.

5. Other than contact with the submarine was lost(seriously, how do YOU interpret that) and it was confirmed it was destroyed as a shockwave when Gouki destroyed the sunken ship?

6. Which would kill Hachi. No doubt.

7. Oh, I can't? Gouki destroyed an island, which supported mountain ranges, whereas said explosion only destroyed a fairly large building, and it knocked Hachi out for a week as well.

8. Well let's consider Ken's status. Despite not having a name, he managed to beat Ken. Not bad.

Now, I am not saying Ken will beat Hachi, but based on status, I do not think Ken should just be considered a chump to Hachi.

Also, hasn't Ken shattered boulders or sumthin?

Sado22
you don't make a website for nothing cool
and jaxx sucks mad

@Jaxx: goddamn it, why can't you just reply like everyother human being?! mad


notice in the first post, where i talk about hogan routine. that's explain everything.
okay, you know when i'm wrong, i'll just go ahead and admit it. that's why i'm saying he got shitstomped because YOU reminded me that ryu only held his own after the hogan routine.
dude, and canonically, we KNOW FOR A FACT, that Gouki doesn't get a dyejob and change his gi. he IS shin when not holding back. the difference is shown in games only to distinguish between foo and shinfoo.


i'm not implying shite beccause common sense would dictate that if one character does a move that's said to be as strong as a kick, you'd assume its the character's own kick and not a donkey's or a fetus'. and hadouken has been shown to do barely any damage or anything in SF4 trailers as well as UDON both of which are canonical, unlike SFA anime which aside from being a pile of garbage was also non canon.
also ryu wouldn't demolish shite with the jacks because we HAVE NOT seen anything from him that even compares to what Kaz and Hachi did. heck, ryu hasn't even been shown to destroy walls, let alone armor plated robots. lifting 10 tons is one thing but we don't use that to support striking feats unless there are feats for that. which there arent. even going by "HARDON" comics, ryu's hadouken barely does anything beside knocking the person back and his strikes aren't that powerful either.


because gouhadoukens are so basic to gouki that he doesn't care about them. on the other hand he is more conscerned with shakunetsuhadouken. still, i might be wrong about this because like i said before, its IIRC.


can you prove that ryu has enough to take shots from akuma?


your first point is moot. otherwise, gouken wouldn't be getting shitestomped all over the place nor would Shi(t)Bison be getting spanked by girls. devil withtin aint may or maynot be canon, fact is *cough* "why can't would a company make something if it wasn't possible?" *cough*


so did he NOT hold his own after going Hogan? remember that i did mention "hogan routine" before also right after i mentioned the shitstomp part in the very first post.
you can drop the accusations now big grin


hogan routine....


unlike the SF-boys, i don't like throwing dirt in people's eyes and argue by making the other guy look bad....it was not 1000m, not by a long shot. you can just say "yeah, you're right" or i'll really start posting some shite.


then i don't care about this point of yours


that's where you're being stupid. there is a whole difference between that explosion and the island buster ( roll eyes (sarcastic) ) punch. you know what the difference is? its simple: gouki punched the foundation of the island with a solid blow where as the explosion was carried out on TOP of the mountain and was not a solid blow or soemthing but an explosion which consisted mainly of fire....you know how fires usually are. and taking that kinda shite at groud zero makes Heihachi an endurance god. period.


yeah, he's a regular masochist aint he? laughing


in stupid chinese manhua where Terry bogard oneshotted Sagat. i like terry bogard but i know bull when i see it no expression

~Sado

I-Drop
Dude didn't beat Ken. He got Ken w/one attack & literally got uppercutted out of the fuking ring for doing so. Ryu got a few hits on a Gouki that is still holding back & trying to convince Ryu not to.

Sado22
going by what it said, he had ken in a pinch with that one attack and the only reason he lost was cuz of a last second innovation by Ken. we can't really call that a feat now since the dude was a no-name bum.

Darkstorm Zero
Now, I didn't want in this, cause it doesn't really need my input, but just for the Record.

Gouki holds back the lions share of his powers juring most of his fights. Gouki has the ability to shut off the Dark Hadou within himself, he does this when the fight opens up so he can test wether or not a foe is worthy.

Thats the regular playable Akuma we get in the arcades, Black Gi, Red Hair.

When he finally does go all out, the Dark Hadou awakens fully, his hair turns to silver white, and his aura's glow slightly lightens the color of his gi. (Super Saiyan routine if you ask me but meh...)

And he does do this when you fulfill the conditions to fight Shin Gouki in SF3 2nd impact, you actually have to go through Normal Gouki first, and he does the whole ressurect & Transform thing...

So, yes, canonical fact from the game, when Gouki goes all figgin out, he does physically change his apperance.

Thats 1 for me!

Sado22
i COULD swallow the white hair but that lighting shade of gi is just incomprehensible...especially since his aura is RED. SHIN Akuma is akuma not holding back. THAT is what Capcom has said. his appearance has nothing to do with it.


in-game stuff. don't count.


that's not canonical. that's as canonical as my Grant shaking the screen routine.

~Sado

Kirikaze Fuuma
@DSZ : what makes me curious is... we never saw any of "shin gouki" real appearances even though capcom makes him playable. or maybe what Sado said was right?

Sado22
i AM right and i have a source.

SADO>>>KMC mad

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Sado22
i COULD swallow the white hair but that lighting shade of gi is just incomprehensible...especially since his aura is RED. SHIN Akuma is akuma not holding back. THAT is what Capcom has said. his appearance has nothing to do with it.

Have you actually shinned a red light on something black/dark grey? it becomes a lighter shade... Don't tell me you still havn't learned physics... Besides, the shade change is only around 5 to 7.5% lighter than normal, it's not a massive difference, and could certainly be influenced by the aura's light seeping through it.

Originally posted by Sado22
in-game stuff. don't count.

Tell that to most of the hobo's who hang around here.

And yes, Ryu's final (sic*) confrontation with Akuma happened here, this is when Akuma is fully convinced that Ryu will never turn to tha Dark Hadou now.

*Sic: Basically, with Capcom/ Street Fighter, nothing is ever concrete, especially when it's vague, this battle may be retconned without warning!)

Originally posted by Sado22
that's not canonical. that's as canonical as my Grant shaking the screen routine.

~Sado

Read above.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
@DSZ : what makes me curious is... we never saw any of "shin gouki" real appearances even though capcom makes him playable. or maybe what Sado said was right?

He's only playable in the home versions, and even then, only with cheats...

As I said, the only time I can clearly say he's ever used his full poower as Shin was at the very end of SF3 2nd impact during his battle with Ryu.

Though I'm not entirely sure how accurate that fight really is, Capcom's vagueness when it comes to confirming actual battles is still as remarkable as it's ever been, but I know for certain (Street Fighter Eternal) That he did transform. And this is the only time ever he's done so.

Darkstorm Zero
[Cursed double posting... *Grumble, grumble...*

Kirikaze Fuuma
confused confused

Kirikaze Fuuma
wait a minute... he fought Ryu in the end of SF3 2nd?

Darkstorm Zero
Yes he did, although I don't know the specifics of the fight other than it was LONG, and Gouki pushed up into Shin...

Marathon match with transformastions, thats about as specific as it gets...

Darkstorm Zero
I'll do you all one more favour to prove my point, here are the actual color differences.

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/akuma-ts-stance.gif For normal Akuma.

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/akuma-s8.gif for Shin Akuma.

As can clearly be seen, only his hair actually changes color, the outfit itself only becomes a lighter shade of grey.

Oh yeah, and one more thing:

Originally posted by Sado22
in-game stuff. don't count.

This is the single most retarded thing anyone has ever said on any thread in VGvs history.

Only GAMEPLAY Elements don't get full consideration, In-Game events however, are fully official.

NENF3P
-Edit-

Yeah I think he meant gameplay elements.

Kirikaze Fuuma
even Ryu's gi become black when he become evil. strange. laughing

NENF3P
^That's a color swap foomaster. smile

Darkstorm Zero
Yeah, thats a little different... E.Ryu has only ever canonically appeared once, and that was when he Metsu shoryuken'ed Sagat to the kadavers... And no, his costume/skin color didn't change that time, he only got glowing red eyes and a burst of purple energy outta his hand.

NENF3P
Just wondering, has Shin Akuma done things that put him above normal version?

Kirikaze Fuuma
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Yeah, thats a little different... E.Ryu has only ever canonically appeared once, and that was when he Metsu shoryuken'ed Sagat to the kadavers... And no, his costume/skin color didn't change that time, he only got glowing red eyes and a burst of purple energy outta his hand.

I mean Evil Ryu's karate gi when he's evil Ryu in gameplay. and I think the same goes to Shin Gouki.

NENF3P
Foomaster didn't look at the sprites. no

Kirikaze Fuuma
foomaster?

NENF3P
It's a nickname I made for you but if you don't like it...I'll stop.

Kirikaze Fuuma
what makes you calls me foomaster?!

NENF3P
Lol! eek! Didn't even realize until now your last name sounds like half of Foomaster!

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by NENF3P
Just wondering, has Shin Akuma done things that put him above normal version?

It's essentially just a massive increase in abilities and energy, his Dark Hadou is in full force in this mode and isn't suppressed like the normal version.

But like I said, the only time he's canonically done this is vague and schetchy at best, I don't think you'll find specific feats for that battle.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
I mean Evil Ryu's karate gi when he's evil Ryu in gameplay. and I think the same goes to Shin Gouki.

If you look at the sprites, the attire doesn't go thru massive change, only his hair does.

Kirikaze Fuuma
Originally posted by NENF3P
Lol! eek! Didn't even realize until now your last name sounds like half of Foomaster!

sad



you're right. but... the same goes to evil Ryu too. the only changes of evil Ryu are his karate gi, moves and his eyes.

NENF3P
If you change your name to The Foomaster...I will forever be your best friend, forever. I meant to say forever twice btw. big grin

Kirikaze Fuuma
Originally posted by NENF3P
If you change your name to The Foomaster...I will be your best friend forever.

shut up no expression

NENF3P
Damn. mmm

Darkstorm Zero
Well, that was Sado's Argument, the change to the Gi, because it's not a part off Ryu's body and is a peice of material, it shouldn't change color.
Although, I could lay claim that his aura DARKENED the color to that extent, however, I'm certainly not stupid to say white becomes black, thats an Extreme change that could only occur if Ryu's aura was draining the light from the surrounding area, in which case, he'd be more like shadow Charlie rather than a pallette swap with Akuma...

k1Lla441
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Well, that was Sado's Argument, the change to the Gi, because it's not a part off Ryu's body and is a peice of material, it shouldn't change color.
Although, I could lay claim that his aura DARKENED the color to that extent, however, I'm certainly not stupid to say white becomes black, thats an Extreme change that could only occur if Ryu's aura was draining the light from the surrounding area, in which case, he'd be more like shadow Charlie rather than a pallette swap with Akuma...
You seem to know a lot about street fighter, so which sf games are the best? i have a psp, ps2, 360, and a gamecube.

Sado22
yeah i meant gameplay elements. my bad.
so going by those sprites, when gouki becomes SHIN:
-his hair turn white
-his eyes start to glow
-his normally purple/blue gi becomes purple
-the rope at this waist becomes a karate belt

.................i'm not convinced no expression

~Sado

Kirikaze Fuuma
@DSZ : when I checked plot guide again, and I can't found any record of Gouki fight Ryu and Gouki become shin. would you please show me about the fight.

so, in my opinion, Shin Gouki's body color is just a gameplay to differentiate holding back Gouki with Shin Gouki. and there's no other proof that Gouki's hair would become silver white when he become Shin Gouki.

Dark-Jaxx
Well when Shin in a Capcom vs. SNK game he does so as well...

http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/neogeo/c/svcsak.htm

May not show his canon powers, but why would they make him look any different?

Zack Fair
Shin Akuma solos the field.

Dark-Jaxx
Originally posted by Sado22
you don't make a website for nothing cool
and jaxx sucks mad

@Jaxx: goddamn it, why can't you just reply like everyother human being?! mad


notice in the first post, where i talk about hogan routine. that's explain everything.
okay, you know when i'm wrong, i'll just go ahead and admit it. that's why i'm saying he got shitstomped because YOU reminded me that ryu only held his own after the hogan routine.
dude, and canonically, we KNOW FOR A FACT, that Gouki doesn't get a dyejob and change his gi. he IS shin when not holding back. the difference is shown in games only to distinguish between foo and shinfoo.


i'm not implying shite beccause common sense would dictate that if one character does a move that's said to be as strong as a kick, you'd assume its the character's own kick and not a donkey's or a fetus'. and hadouken has been shown to do barely any damage or anything in SF4 trailers as well as UDON both of which are canonical, unlike SFA anime which aside from being a pile of garbage was also non canon.
also ryu wouldn't demolish shite with the jacks because we HAVE NOT seen anything from him that even compares to what Kaz and Hachi did. heck, ryu hasn't even been shown to destroy walls, let alone armor plated robots. lifting 10 tons is one thing but we don't use that to support striking feats unless there are feats for that. which there arent. even going by "HARDON" comics, ryu's hadouken barely does anything beside knocking the person back and his strikes aren't that powerful either.


because gouhadoukens are so basic to gouki that he doesn't care about them. on the other hand he is more conscerned with shakunetsuhadouken. still, i might be wrong about this because like i said before, its IIRC.


can you prove that ryu has enough to take shots from akuma?


your first point is moot. otherwise, gouken wouldn't be getting shitestomped all over the place nor would Shi(t)Bison be getting spanked by girls. devil withtin aint may or maynot be canon, fact is *cough* "why can't would a company make something if it wasn't possible?" *cough*


so did he NOT hold his own after going Hogan? remember that i did mention "hogan routine" before also right after i mentioned the shitstomp part in the very first post.
you can drop the accusations now big grin


hogan routine....


unlike the SF-boys, i don't like throwing dirt in people's eyes and argue by making the other guy look bad....it was not 1000m, not by a long shot. you can just say "yeah, you're right" or i'll really start posting some shite.


then i don't care about this point of yours


that's where you're being stupid. there is a whole difference between that explosion and the island buster ( roll eyes (sarcastic) ) punch. you know what the difference is? its simple: gouki punched the foundation of the island with a solid blow where as the explosion was carried out on TOP of the mountain and was not a solid blow or soemthing but an explosion which consisted mainly of fire....you know how fires usually are. and taking that kinda shite at groud zero makes Heihachi an endurance god. period.


yeah, he's a regular masochist aint he? laughing


in stupid chinese manhua where Terry bogard oneshotted Sagat. i like terry bogard but i know bull when i see it no expression

~Sado 1. Hogan routine means you get shit-stomped, then come back and win. Gouki never lost. Change in gi maybe, but in the ending I posted, in the gameplay, and even on the official friggin action figures, Shin Akuma is depicted with white hair. Also, Gouki no longer considers Ryu "worthy", at least I am pretty damn sure that is what he said.

2. And Ryu's Hadoukens are not meant to be uber destructive. Ryu lifted a large boulder, physically, he should be able to push directly through a wall, and a Jack. And who does Ryu fight? Also, Gouki by feats is more durable than any Jack, and Ryu can hurt him. Ryu's Hadoukens are not supposed to vape or blow anyone to shit, they are non-lethal, Gouki's, are not.

3. Like I said, what source?

4. ...Other than he did? no expression I mean really...You DID watch the SFIV intro, right?

5. Gouken has been shit-stomped? And you just proved my point. Power output does not equal durability. Well, Capcom also made Capcom Fighting Evolution. Going by what you just said, Gouki solos the thread with his meteor busting punches and space hopping speed.

7. He wasn't beaten like a rag-doll, but he was clearly not the one possessing the advantage.

8. Was it not stated in the canon guide to be 1,000 meters?

9. Cop-out. What are your "theories" then?

10. ...Can you post the vid? Cause that sounds much more fantastic than I remember.

Zack Fair
When did Ryu hurt Gouki?

Dark-Jaxx
SFIV anime intro, his punches were ultimately in-effective, but Gouki could definately feel them and was noticeably fazed.

Kirikaze Fuuma
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Well when Shin in a Capcom vs. SNK game he does so as well...

http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/neogeo/c/svcsak.htm

May not show his canon powers, but why would they make him look any different?

you used a non-canon game made by SNK as a reference? please show me the canon cource

Dark-Jaxx
You're copping out, the game was made by Capcom with SNK, why would they have Shin Gouki's appearance changed?

Not to mention in-game, he is represented as having the same white hair, and the notion that that is not the way Shin Gouki was intended to look is ignorance.

Then there is the fact that official Capcom merchandise like action figures of Shin Gouki have white hair.

Kirikaze Fuuma
you mean it was created by SNK. it's SNK who collaborate with capcom.

the game itself is not canon. for example, even another crossover such as capcom vs SNK 2 which is a result of collaboration between capcom and SNK shows different way about how Gouki turned shin. in CvS 2, Gouki turned Shin because of orochi power. and now you want to show me another non-canon game? we can't trust such a crossover games.

Sado22
and ryu is depicted with black gi. but did his ki do anything to his outfit? no. even in the SF4 vid where he goes emoryu, did his gi become black? also, Shin gouki in SFA2 wears a gay looking purple gi but his hair remain red. IT IS INGAME thing to distinguish between the two. period.


if you know anything about fighting, you'd know that lifting strenght has virtually nothing to do with punching power because the overall conept of them both is totally different.


gouki has no endurance feats. period.


*grabs cock* this one, mofo!


he took a kick to the face and was thrown around like a ***** in the beginning. so by this token, jin has what it takes to soak punches from the likes of Jinpachi. heck, little girls in tekken hit harder than Ryu. asuka dusted a huge ass boulder with a punch and jin soaked it without even being phased. at least that shows that jin:
-has greater durability than ryu
-has what it takes to soak worse shots (Ogre, Jinpachi) and by that we can also understand why they lost to Jin in the first place.........its cuz he's uberhuman, has great power and has uber endurance. what has ryu done that he can soak shots from Akuma?
(see how much you guys use doublestandards btw?)


he never busted the meteor. we say him approach it...but that's about it. he wasn't shown to do squat IIRC. and jin defeated and soaked blows from jinpachi who can destroy all existence>>not even destroying meteor


who? too many pronouns here.


no.


see my site.


the intro to tekken5?

~Sado

Sado22
ditto. its an ingame thing to differeniate the two.

Kirikaze Fuuma
come to think of it... SFA, CvS and SF3 Shin Gouki has different colors. more solid proof about this is a gameplay.

Sado22
Sado>>KMC
we all know it big grin

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Sado22
yeah i meant gameplay elements. my bad.
so going by those sprites, when gouki becomes SHIN:
-his hair turn white
-his eyes start to glow
-his normally purple/blue gi becomes purple
-the rope at this waist becomes a karate belt

.................i'm not convinced no expression

~Sado

Actually, his gi is black/very dark grey as REGULAR. Only lightens up a few shades when he goes Shin.

As for the belt and gloves, I can't explain those, it was never even considered in AAC... Which is where I got the source.

But here, again for your conveniance.

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/akuma-ts-stance.gif SF3 2nd impact regular Akuma

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/akuma-cvs-stance.gif CVS2 Regular Akuma

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/akuma-snk-stand.gif SVC Chaos Regular Akuma

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/akuma-alphastand.gif SFA series Regular Akuma

Notice how the only one that is blue is the SNK made one?

Now, lets do a Comparative.

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/akuma-s8.gif SF3 Shin Akuma, Official, The way he should be.

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters3/akuma-shin-cvs2-stance.gif CVS2 Snin Akuma, Empowered further by Orochi powers, (Non-canon)

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff40/KOFHI5/ShinAkuma/shoosh.gif SVC Chaos Shin Akuma, Same as above, also non-canon.

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/akuma-c-combo.gif SFA Shin Akuma, Non Canon. He has the entire blue costume, but this one isn't official

@Kirikaze: I don't use Tiamat's plot guide, Ever... It's based mostly around his own oppinion.

@ k1Lla441: Depends on what part of the series you like, PS2 has all the great ones, CVS2, The Alpha Anthology, Capcom Classics, SVCChaos and Marvel vs Capcom 2, Even EX3 is on it. It also has the vast majority of King of Fighters games, as well as Fatal Fury and AOF Classics.

As for the rest, it's just Sado's rant all over again...*Snorez*

Kirikaze Fuuma
are you saying tiamat is unreliable now?

Darkstorm Zero
I have always stated that... if you read his discaimer, he states as much that alot of it was based on hypothesis rather than actual fact, the rest is 2nd hand knowlege from Saiki, and more hypothesis from Roland.

Only about a third of the entire guide could be taken at face value (AAC and SFE sources)

Kirikaze Fuuma
so, is there another source for SF canon story?

Darkstorm Zero
The source Books, Street fighter Eternal, and All About Capcom.

Darkstorm Zero
Oh, and for Sado, the Real Evil Ryu

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/ryu-alpha3-end1.gif

Sado22
Darko, you foo, the pic you showed is PSYCHO ryu. NOT evil ryu. they are different. we've spoken of Evil Ryu and it was spoken of in detail back in SF1......but no one said anything about his gi turning black cuz he went Emohadou. so it refutes what you're saying. also in the new SF4 trialer, dark hadou also doesn't turn his gi black IIRC. that's two points directly contradicting what you're saying.
thus far, SHIN Akuma's look is there only to serve as marker of the two characters.


grey becomes purple?
dark blue becomes purple?
come on mane.

~Sado

Kirikaze Fuuma
@DSZ : those all books. sad

and... I have few question for you.

1. how did you know that the real canon Shin Akuma is the one just like SF3's Shin Akuma? he has neither canon appearances and endings
2. I never heard about Ryu fight Gouki in the very end of SF3. how did you know about Ryu fight Gouki again in SF3?

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Sado22
Darko, you foo, the pic you showed is PSYCHO ryu. NOT evil ryu. they are different. we've spoken of Evil Ryu and it was spoken of in detail back in SF1......but no one said anything about his gi turning black cuz he went Emohadou. so it refutes what you're saying. also in the new SF4 trialer, dark hadou also doesn't turn his gi black IIRC. that's two points directly contradicting what you're saying.
thus far, SHIN Akuma's look is there only to serve as marker of the two characters.

Reread what I've said in the thread, nowhere did I claim that the dark skinned, black Gi wearing E.Ryu was canon did I?

In fact I've been stating the opposite, E.Ryu as most would know him, is largely a What if character, nothing more.

So no, nothing you've said refutes anything I've said.

Originally posted by Sado22
grey becomes purple?
dark blue becomes purple?
come on mane.

~Sado

*Sigh* look at the sprites... Read what I wrote next to each one... Only one of the 4 shin akuma spirtes I posted is in-fact canon, and it's not the purple or the blue one.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
@DSZ : those all books. sad

and... I have few question for you.

1. how did you know that the real canon Shin Akuma is the one just like SF3's Shin Akuma? he has neither canon appearances and endings
2. I never heard about Ryu fight Gouki in the very end of SF3. how did you know about Ryu fight Gouki again in SF3?

Yeah, they are all source books.

#1: Because it's the one and only time Shin Akuma has appeared in any official histories anywhere, he took on Ryu with his full power because Ryu said he was finally ready, he was strong enough to take on Akuma's full power. Akuma, then proceeded to test Ryu without utilising the full power of the Dark Hadou (IE: Regular Akuma fight).

When Ryu was proving himself worthy without succumbing to the Dark Hadou's influence, Akuma awakened all of his Dark Hadou, hence the seeming transformation.

After that though, the details of who won and lost is not available, but both are still alive, so i'm assuming it was eitehr a draw, Ryu won without killing, or Akuma let ryu live to become even stronger. Roll a dice I guess.

#2: SFE explained it, the epilougue chapter describes all the conclusions but leaves them relatively open ended so that Capcom has the option of continuing the story.

I-Drop
I don't remember Ryu turning evil in SF4 vid.

Sado22
there are 3 or 4 of them so far. you probably only saw one of them. just type ryu vs vanessa...er...crimson viper laughing out loud

Dark-Jaxx
Originally posted by Sado22
and ryu is depicted with black gi. but did his ki do anything to his outfit? no. even in the SF4 vid where he goes emoryu, did his gi become black? also, Shin gouki in SFA2 wears a gay looking purple gi but his hair remain red. IT IS INGAME thing to distinguish between the two. period.


if you know anything about fighting, you'd know that lifting strenght has virtually nothing to do with punching power because the overall conept of them both is totally different.


gouki has no endurance feats. period.


*grabs cock* this one, mofo!


he took a kick to the face and was thrown around like a ***** in the beginning. so by this token, jin has what it takes to soak punches from the likes of Jinpachi. heck, little girls in tekken hit harder than Ryu. asuka dusted a huge ass boulder with a punch and jin soaked it without even being phased. at least that shows that jin:
-has greater durability than ryu
-has what it takes to soak worse shots (Ogre, Jinpachi) and by that we can also understand why they lost to Jin in the first place.........its cuz he's uberhuman, has great power and has uber endurance. what has ryu done that he can soak shots from Akuma?
(see how much you guys use doublestandards btw?)


he never busted the meteor. we say him approach it...but that's about it. he wasn't shown to do squat IIRC. and jin defeated and soaked blows from jinpachi who can destroy all existence>>not even destroying meteor


who? too many pronouns here.


no.


see my site.


the intro to tekken5?

~Sado 1. Who gives a shit what E. Ryu looks like? And I have several sources that show Shin Gouki with white hair, the ending I posted, the "OFFICIAL" action figures, and the game itself.

2. There are four factors that influence the force of a strike. Strength, mass, technique, and speed. Ryu has the physical strength, the technique, he is fairly large, and is faster than Hachi. Ryu has all the strike categories above him except for technique. Hell, if strength does not factor into strike force, why does Hulk hit so damn hard then?

3. He took deep sea pressure.

4. In other words, you cannot even tell me your source.

5. I'm not even sure what you just said...But both have traded blows, and we already know how hard Gouki hits.

6. That's bullshit, we clearly see his purple aura engulf it, and we see the separated pieces of meteor in the aura. So now Jinpachi can destroy all existence? And you have the gall to call anyone else a fanboy? Lol.

7. Ryu held his own, but was clearly at the disadvantage.

8. Well talk to your Tekken friend Fuuma then, because he was the one who told me this shit.

9. No.

10. Like I said. Post it.

Kirikaze Fuuma
tekken friend? I know very little about tekken.

Sado22
official action figures don't mean shite man. stop using that as a proof for canonity. Capcom released action figures for SF vs Xmen too didn't they so was that an OFFICIAL thing now?
i'm using evil ryu because it directly contradicts what you're saying.


actualy, aside from shoulder and wing strength, you also need weight and speed. ryu's faster, about as strong, but he's a shorty and he doesn't weight that much (only 67kgs). and like i said, Hachi's striking feats>>>>>Ryu's. heck everyone in tekken seems to hit harder than ryu ever can. heck, ASUKA hits harder than ryu laughing out loud


he wasn't that deep. at all.


i said i don't remember, remember?


well you can read it again and understand what i'm saying. i'm not only answering your question but also confronting that age old contradictory bull that SF fans use against Jin.


can you post the pic/vid cuz i don't remember him destroying it.
jinpachi CAN destroy existence because Namco stated that he can. at least i have a source for what i'm saying mr-gouki-was-1000m-under-the-sea laughing out loud


yeah, but after hogan routine he managed to daze gouki (which is PIS btw). ryu shouldn't even be getting up........no less after remembering his f0cking life while being knocked out. i hate when they do that. no matter what way you look at it, the moment ryu got up to fight it was sad PIS and hogan routine to the max.


youtube it, foo? how hard can it possibly be erm

~Sado

DarkC
The "white hair" Shin Gouki is Gouki basically being empowered with Orochi courtesy of a dying Rugal Bernstein and is technically non-canon (being from a CvS game). The official Shin Gouki (in SFA3) has a bright purple gi rather than aquamarine and flame red hair rather than orange.

The plot guide says that Shin Gouki is just simply Gouki with no restraints and holding back, so by the story his appearance shouldn't really change at all.

Are you talking 'bout Gouki's 3S ending? He was actually at least 1000m under the ocean. Light from the surface of the water starts to darken at around 800.

Also, Tiamat's guide states from an interview (maybe it was just a statement) that the "3000" in the Shinku 3000 (the name of the sub depicted in that video) refers to the maximum depth that the sub can dive is 3000m, intentionally inserted by Capcom there.



And didn't Gouki K.O. Evil Ryu with like two fingers? Or was that from one of the comics?

Sado22
yeah but it wasn't stated to be so and we could see light.


interesting. okay, conceded then.


that was from the comics. officially the two never faced off.

~Sado

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by DarkC
The "white hair" Shin Gouki is Gouki basically being empowered with Orochi courtesy of a dying Rugal Bernstein and is technically non-canon (being from a CvS game). The official Shin Gouki (in SFA3) has a bright purple gi rather than aquamarine and flame red hair rather than orange.

The white haired one your reffering to is only the CFJ(E)/CVS2.SVC Chaos one, Yes, that is non-canon, the blue go wearing one from SFA series is also a what-if character like E.Ryu. But the SF3 2nd Impact one isn't a what if, that one is an actual character. And, beleive it or not, his hair is completely white/silver.

And I'll take this time to reinterate that I don't rely on Tiamat's plot guide... he leaves too many holes that he either plugs with oppinion, or leaves as is.

Sado22
proof?

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Sado22
proof?

....................................

How many times do I have to post that?

Read this very page, my last post here................

Come on Sado, you can try harder than that, just put the beer down... Down..... No! Not another sip... Put it down... There we go... Now adjust your glasses, there we go.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Actually, his gi is black/very dark grey as REGULAR. Only lightens up a few shades when he goes Shin.

As for the belt and gloves, I can't explain those, it was never even considered in AAC... Which is where I got the source.

But here, again for your conveniance.

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/akuma-ts-stance.gif SF3 2nd impact regular Akuma

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/akuma-cvs-stance.gif CVS2 Regular Akuma

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/akuma-snk-stand.gif SVC Chaos Regular Akuma

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/akuma-alphastand.gif SFA series Regular Akuma

Notice how the only one that is blue is the SNK made one?

Now, lets do a Comparative.

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/akuma-s8.gif SF3 Shin Akuma, Official, The way he should be.

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters3/akuma-shin-cvs2-stance.gif CVS2 Snin Akuma, Empowered further by Orochi powers, (Non-canon)

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff40/KOFHI5/ShinAkuma/shoosh.gif SVC Chaos Shin Akuma, Same as above, also non-canon.

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/akuma-c-combo.gif SFA Shin Akuma, Non Canon. He has the entire blue costume, but this one isn't official

@Kirikaze: I don't use Tiamat's plot guide, Ever... It's based mostly around his own oppinion.

@ k1Lla441: Depends on what part of the series you like, PS2 has all the great ones, CVS2, The Alpha Anthology, Capcom Classics, SVCChaos and Marvel vs Capcom 2, Even EX3 is on it. It also has the vast majority of King of Fighters games, as well as Fatal Fury and AOF Classics.

As for the rest, it's just Sado's rant all over again...*Snorez*

AND, from this very page:

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Yeah, they are all source books.

#1: Because it's the one and only time Shin Akuma has appeared in any official histories anywhere, he took on Ryu with his full power because Ryu said he was finally ready, he was strong enough to take on Akuma's full power. Akuma, then proceeded to test Ryu without utilising the full power of the Dark Hadou (IE: Regular Akuma fight).

When Ryu was proving himself worthy without succumbing to the Dark Hadou's influence, Akuma awakened all of his Dark Hadou, hence the seeming transformation.

After that though, the details of who won and lost is not available, but both are still alive, so i'm assuming it was eitehr a draw, Ryu won without killing, or Akuma let ryu live to become even stronger. Roll a dice I guess.

#2: SFE explained it, the epilougue chapter describes all the conclusions but leaves them relatively open ended so that Capcom has the option of continuing the story.

There now, see? That wasn't so hard was it Sado? smile

Sado22
and all this doesn't prove anything either darko. for all intent and purposes it just looks like another thing Capcom does in-game to differenciate between the two characters....sameway Iori's clothes change colors to tell the difference between Iori and Riot Iori.
not to mention that the whole episode itself was non-canon and that the two never even crossed paths in SF3. at all.
or are you gonna suggest that Ryu got shistomped by Oro but was able to make Akuma go all out?

~Sado

Kirikaze Fuuma
makes sense

Darkstorm Zero
I'm not making any assumptions, and I'm certainly not second guessing here mate.

Riot Iori got an entirely new stance unique to him, so there wasn't a need to do any color changes to him, this isn't the case with Shin Akuma, he uses the exact same stances, sprites and voice. Yes, the earlier versions where nothing but palette swapouts because those versions arn't official.

And no, I'm certainly not suggesting he got Shitstomped by Oro, then MADE Gouki go all out. Remember, Gouki allowed him to see the Dark Hadou's full might.

Do you see now? The only reaon Ryu's still alive is because Gouki allowed it.

Sado22
well, as long as your saying your "assuming" then yeah fine. gouki went darkhadou but decided to go easy on "hogan" even then.

Darkstorm Zero
............................

No, Err, Sado? This was after the tourney? Oro himself even admitted he had to exert some effort in order to stop Ryu. Gouki being impressed enough with Ryu to show him the path that would have been had he taken up the Killing Intent.

And yeah, he let Ryu Go.

I'm imagining their final battle as incredibly intense, Whenever that is going to happen.

Sado22
*burps from excessive beer drinking*
wha ya shay, darko? drunk

Kirikaze Fuuma
all I know is... Oro was impressed. that's a new story to me.

Jayct
Just my two cents: You guys talked about things that effect strike force, like mass, height etc. Actually it's bone density and inner energy that plays the biggest role. Guys who wants to break bricks train to make their bones denser: hitting against hard stuff like wood for hours on end, breaking down the bone in their hands and letting them regrow denser, much like muscles does when you lift weights.

Also, many learn to focus inner energy and transfer them to their punches: that's why you get guys the size of bruce lee who can knock through 10 slabs of ice with seemingly no effort.

Alright, done

/nerd

Sado22
agreed.

Darkstorm Zero
http://images.torrentmove.com/ij/8_19_de2462ec53701a8.png

Sado22
still doesn't prove anything.

Kirikaze Fuuma
laughing out loud laughing out loud laughing out loud

psycho gundam
shin gouki stomps, team two gets a free trip to hell just for the audacity of challenging him.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Sado22
still doesn't prove anything.

Prove what? I've laid my proof down and the only thing you can come up with is "It's not the right color"

Lame!

Sado22
proof whcih you have backed up with stuff that has already been contradicted both in-game and by existence of other characters. Evil ryu and the fact that even ryu getting manhandled by regular gouki and pwned by regular Oro points heavily AGAINST what you said. not to mention that you don't have solid proof yourself.

who'se lame now, darkfoo?! mad

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Sado22
proof whcih you have backed up with stuff that has already been contradicted both in-game and by existence of other characters. Evil ryu and the fact that even ryu getting manhandled by regular gouki and pwned by regular Oro points heavily AGAINST what you said. not to mention that you don't have solid proof yourself.

who'se lame now, darkfoo?! mad

WTF are you on about?

Nowhere did I argue E.Ryu is anything more than a what if character... Point out to me where I said otherwise Sado. Again your putting words in my mouth.

As for ingame, that actually supports me, observe:

See if you can prove where Ryu got mauled by Oro, or even Gouki in SF3 timelines genius.

I'll be waiting... smokin'

Sado22
......the fact that Oro beat him up with one arm no expression
if someone beats you with literally an arm tied behind his back, that's means you've gotten the "proverbial asspwnage".

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Sado22
......the fact that Oro beat him up with one arm no expression
if someone beats you with literally an arm tied behind his back, that's means you've gotten the "proverbial asspwnage".

Err...............

Dude......... You do realise that you didn't prove a damn thing right there? Yes, Oro did defeat him, but how badly?

Kinda hard to prove that without details of the fight dude... Your speculating very badly, and blindly at that...

Sado22
and you're proof of SF3 shingouki being canonical is also baseless. just because he "turns" into shingouki in-game doesn't mean he actually becomes like that. especially given the number of insconsistencies in the gamewise and canonwise depictions of characters to begin with (ryu wearing a white bandana when it should be red, psycho ryu looking perfectly like regular ryu even though he should have red glowing eyes etc), Evil ryu actually being a character.......and hte fact that we have never seen shingouki in any canon ending. also the shingouki of SF3 directly refutes those in other games and your logic of his ki manupilating the color of his outfits and hair is also self contradictory: red hair become white and a darkblue/dark grey karate gi becomes gray (and the rope becomes a karate belt smile )
it doesn't make sense. at all.

~Sado

Kirikaze Fuuma
if Gouki was forced to go Shin by Ryu, then Ryu must have pushed Oro to used his left arm.

Sado22
which he didn't.
either that or Shin akuma is one overrated wimp laughing out loud

Darkstorm Zero
*tiredly*

Like I said before, it was a display of power more than an actual fight...

We know normal gouki stalemated Oro and outright flattened Gill, not to mention one-shotting Bison (Weakened or not, nobody has ever soloed Bison before, nevermind one-shotting)



#1: Baseless means I havn't actually shown anything, which I did. Read AAC

#2: Ryu only got the red one in SFA2, but nobody can say when he started wearing it, personally he should have worn it during A3, but I'm assuming that for some ungodly reason Capcom couldn't increase the number of colors on the character pallete to actually match that... (Which is bullshit, my old apple mack can make a character animation consist of 255 colors just fine, they limit it depending on the number of bits a system can take, hell a 16 bit animation has 18 colors per sprite...

#3: Actually, Psycho Ryu shouldn't have red eyes... That is the Killing intent awakening, hence why Bison got freaked out when that happened. Psycho power normally results in "lost" eyes (Completely pupilless like Bison's is), "Lost" with a bluish glow, or lost with a bright purple glow. but never red.

#4: E.Ryu being selectable as a what-if character wasn't even Capcom of Japan's decision, COA actually did that over the top for the american release of SFA2, and only later got introduced in japan. but he NEVER was a canon character to begin with. (You've been using this for ages now as an excuse, please stop... nobody is saying E.Ryu is canon anywhere, why do you insist on keeping this up based on E.Ryu when I never even mentioned him being canon?)

#5: Who cares if he's in an ending or not? I never said he was... And yes, he does refute them, because the rest where non-canon, like I've been saying... Congrats, you've just figured it out.

Sado, you've blundered this quite badly... please don't make me go through this all again.... I've repeated a number of those arguments 3 times or more, especially those that actually have nothing to do with what I'm saying, the E.Ryu stuff is completely irrelevant for starters...

Sado22
in a fight that we have not seen or heard anything about. up to now, YOU are the only person who i know after all these years whose ever said this.


neither of which were serious at the time.


non-canon/not confirmed


he blindsided the guy with his most powerful move. hardly something worthy of being called a feat.


baseless means that what you're saying isn't "holding" under the arguments....hence the term "base".


he started wearing it the moment Ken gave it to him in SFA2.


going by story, it was Psycho Ryu not darkhadou. heck, his eyes go red like that in almost everyone's ending.


but he's in the game as stronger pallete swap of Ryu is he not? similar to how S.Gouki is a stronger pallete swap for gouki. which is what i've been saying from the beginning....its just a palette swap to differentiate the characters.


okay, so you're saying that the character's appearance is canonical even though we've never seen him in an ending but only as a lousy palette swap.....similar to how other characters have their sprite's color changed to show the difference in-game?

~Sado

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Sado22
in a fight that we have not seen or heard anything about. up to now, YOU are the only person who i know after all these years whose ever said this.

Thats only because I read about it recently, is tht all you have? Ad-populem? Please...

Originally posted by Sado22
neither of which were serious at the time.

True, but that doesn't discard anything i've said

Originally posted by Sado22
non-canon/not confirmed

So, for once, your saying that Tiamat is wrong?

I beleive it was confirmed in the sourcebooks that Gouki SGSed Gill, who later ressurected hours later.

Originally posted by Sado22
he blindsided the guy with his most powerful move. hardly something worthy of being called a feat.

Again, everyone assumes he bum-rapped Bison, when akuma's attack came from the front, well within Bisons field of vision, this claim is assumption.

Originally posted by Sado22
baseless means that what you're saying isn't "holding" under the arguments....hence the term "base".

So your saying that going by your own oppinion and nothing else, my claim is baseless despite proof positive to the contary?

I'd say your oppinion is baseless more than any confirmed facts mate.

Originally posted by Sado22
he started wearing it the moment Ken gave it to him in SFA2.

I know, reread my posts, I dunno why capcom didn't give it to him... the only explanation I have would be graphic limitation as I described. Either that or Capcom was being lazy again.

Originally posted by Sado22
going by story, it was Psycho Ryu not darkhadou. heck, his eyes go red like that in almost everyone's ending.

Going by story, Psycho Power is the Dark Hadou's kindred, an influx of it temprarily awakened it, hence "Red Eyed" Ryu. it';s also what fended off Bison's control. if you read the ending texts for Ryu, Sakura and Sagat, it should all be listed there.

Originally posted by Sado22
but he's in the game as stronger pallete swap of Ryu is he not? similar to how S.Gouki is a stronger pallete swap for gouki. which is what i've been saying from the beginning....its just a palette swap to differentiate the characters.

So similarities in context grant you the ability to say that the characters share circumstance and should not be considered?

Talk about baseless....

The only one I have said that isn't just a palette swap was SF3 Shin Gouki anyways, there IS no E.Ryu to be had in any SF3 game at all, your excuse just went out the window.

Originally posted by Sado22
okay, so you're saying that the character's appearance is canonical even though we've never seen him in an ending but only as a lousy palette swap.....similar to how other characters have their sprite's color changed to show the difference in-game?

~Sado

Sado..... reread the thread, I've pointed out where he canonically appeared, which is outside of the actual fight, - after you defeat Gouki, and the game does all the victory sequence stuff, all the scoring for the fight is done. then the screen goes dark, and gouki starts glowing as he stands up, and goes into his stomp, his aura flares, and the fight against Shin Gouki immediately begings against the darkened background (Think the Riot stages of KOF '97)

Sado22
if they weren't serious they werent using their full potential.


i doubt it.


f0ck everyone. i don't care what everyone says....especially if by everyone you mean SF fans who happen to be the most misinformed bums out there who live on fanwanked BS, unconfirmed bull and selfcontradictory information. there was a time when "everyone" thought tekken didn't stand a chance against "hogan". so please, spare me the "everyone".


what you showed didn't hold, mate. hence, baseless.


which is my point. capcom is even unreliable in their depiction of things INGAME.


and i'm saying that it doesn't prove that he is canon. these things don't prove squat mane.

~Sado

Sado22
also the SF4 trailer that clearly shows dark hadou in action for the first time does not change anything about ryu except his eyes. and that was the first canonical depiction of Evil ryu outside of videogames..................and guess what? no black karate gi, no change of hair, no change of skin color.

and merry christmas, foo! smile

~Sado

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Sado22
if they weren't serious they werent using their full potential.

And that means.... What for the argument at hand?

Originally posted by Sado22
i doubt it.

Then red the book and prove me wrong

Originally posted by Sado22
f0ck everyone. i don't care what everyone says....especially if by everyone you mean SF fans who happen to be the most misinformed bums out there who live on fanwanked BS, unconfirmed bull and selfcontradictory information. there was a time when "everyone" thought tekken didn't stand a chance against "hogan". so please, spare me the "everyone".

You and the Capcom haters is whom I'm reffering, your the ONLY ones who claim Bison was sneak attacked. Unfortunately Your arguments are "Baseless".

Originally posted by Sado22
what you showed didn't hold, mate. hence, baseless.

Which is only your oppinion on the matter, just because you say it's baseless doesn't make it so. Hows about providing counter evidence instead of sidestepping the issues like you've done since you came here?

Originally posted by Sado22
which is my point. capcom is even unreliable in their depiction of things INGAME.

I never denied Capcom wasn't lazy. In fact I've always stated this.

However, the fact that they sourced it and published it directly discounts your claim in this matter.

Originally posted by Sado22
and i'm saying that it doesn't prove that he is canon. these things don't prove squat mane.

~Sado

Then you need to relearn SFer mane... Don't argue with me about SFer any-more, I can't make this any clearer to you, and if you won't be swayed by whats in front of your face, then it only shows what I've said toyou and about you before, your too damn stubborn.

Originally posted by Sado22
also the SF4 trailer that clearly shows dark hadou in action for the first time does not change anything about ryu except his eyes. and that was the first canonical depiction of Evil ryu outside of videogames..................and guess what? no black karate gi, no change of hair, no change of skin color.

and merry christmas, foo! smile

~Sado

PLEASE REREAD THE F0CKING THREAD!!!!! SHOW ME WHERE I SAID E.RYU IS CANON!?!?!

I have not claimed this once, but your holding onto this for some strange and f0cked up reason, E.Ryu has nothing to do with S.Gouki, I'm not even arguing with you about him... Why do you persisit in this meaningless charade? this is now the 3rd time i've had to tell you I'm not even arguing E.Ryu, I didn't even mention him.

Oh, and a Heppy new year.

Sado22
darko, as far as i'm conscerned that vid just contradicts everthing you've been saying about shingouki. if you want to argue that point, come up with something that refutes what was shown in the video.

~Sado
P.S. you better not eat any more chillis for christmas mofo! mad

ThunderGodEneru
...It didn't show Shin Gouki, it showed Ryu. no expression

Sado22
........talk about missing the point no expression
merry christmas, asstard! big grin

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Sado22
darko, as far as i'm conscerned that vid just contradicts everthing you've been saying about shingouki. if you want to argue that point, come up with something that refutes what was shown in the video.

~Sado
P.S. you better not eat any more chillis for christmas mofo! mad

What F0cken video?

If your reffering to the SF4 Trailer, then I've got 3 things to say to you, 1st prove Gouki was going all out, 2nd, that happend some time BEFOE SF3, so it contradicts nothing and 3rd, WTf has that got to do with S.Gouki?

Sado22
this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyAoLp2amsY
directly contradicts EVERYTHING you've said.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
If your reffering to the SF4 Trailer, then I've got 3 things to say to you, 1st prove Gouki was going all out, 2nd, that happend some time BEFOE SF3, so it contradicts nothing and 3rd, WTf has that got to do with S.Gouki?

Reread what I just said, your video contradicts nothing I have said at all.

Sado22
watch the video.

Darkstorm Zero
Err. dude, I;ve watched the vid, probably more times than you have, there is NOTHING there that contradicts anything I said.

Your wierd denial is blinding... I dunno whats wrong with you, but I pray that there is more to your argument than repeating points that have been shot down.

Sado22
weird denial?
okay, so you've been insisting that akuma becomes white haird and his gi becomes purple or lighter color of gray when he turns shin. when i asked you first, you insisted that it was because the aura does that. all the time i was insisting that it wasn't a color change as much as it was CApcom allowing us to differentiate between the characters. i also brought to your attention Evil Ryu and how HE too is simly a darker palette swap of Ryu to just tell the difference between the two.

NOW, i post the video from SF4 which proves that darkhadou has no such "color changing" abilities and that the only thing it does is change your physical appearance (you get red eyes). period. so its Evil Ryu? big deal. its still dark hadou at its purest form and we see no such things as you've been stating. no color change, no hair color change, and no changing ropes into karate belts etc.
hence you're point is moot.
hence you've been proven wrong.

now come up with something better than, "i have seen that video and it refutes nothing" because it does...or just admit you've been proven wrong.

~Sado

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Sado22
weird denial?
okay, so you've been insisting that akuma becomes white haird and his gi becomes purple or lighter color of gray when he turns shin. when i asked you first, you insisted that it was because the aura does that. all the time i was insisting that it wasn't a color change as much as it was CApcom allowing us to differentiate between the characters. i also brought to your attention Evil Ryu and how HE too is simly a darker palette swap of Ryu to just tell the difference between the two.

The thing your not getting is this, I'm not even remotely talking about E.Ryu..

Ok, first and foremost, Akuma with purple or blue is non-canon, I beleive I stated this numerous times, the ONLY official one is SF3 2nd Impact, THATS the only one you should focus on dude, 2 his skin doesn't darken, his hair becomes white and his Gi lightens up a few shades of grey, big deal. The only thing you've done is establish that you don't listen, and latch onto AANYTHING hoping you look good for others enough for them to say "Sado is right".

Thats all this is about.

Originally posted by Sado22
NOW, i post the video from SF4 which proves that darkhadou has no such "color changing" abilities and that the only thing it does is change your physical appearance (you get red eyes). period. so its Evil Ryu? big deal. its still dark hadou at its purest form and we see no such things as you've been stating. no color change, no hair color change, and no changing ropes into karate belts etc.
hence you're point is moot.
hence you've been proven wrong.

Again, your arguing the wrong effen character. Your not even remotely close.

Akuma is a different character, Shin Akuma is the next step of Akuma, not Ryu, or E.Ryu or anything even remotely close to that.

Where did I state his colors change? Hmm? His hair is the only thing that really changes, and that shite happens all the time in Anime/Video Games...

This is becoming really foolish... I proved my case already, A: the only thing you have is vagrities that you ASSUMA from a trailer that happens years prior to the events I described, B: your argument focuses on a character thet I'm not even arguing,, and C: Ryu and E.Ryu's circumstances are entirely different from Akuma/Shin Akuma....

Originally posted by Sado22
now come up with something better than, "i have seen that video and it refutes nothing" because it does...or just admit you've been proven wrong.

~Sado

Hows about you put up some evidence reguarding the actual character then you may be able to dictate anything to me, let alone how to debate Sado, Seriously, your roundabout logic won't save you here.

Sado22
but he uses Dark hadou like Akuma and his power in terms of Dark Hadou is said to be up there with Akuma's. so the reason we can't use that is...?


yeah you said that. and i said, purple or grey.


which the official depiction of Evil ryu in the latest game directly contradicts because it does nothing to his gi or his skin or his hair. which is what i've been saying. and that is why it negates you're point that SF3GI shitgouki is the real one. is it really that hard to follow?


comparable in strength
same damn power source
why is it not comparable exactly?

~Sado

Man of...
LOL, put Ken on Ryu's team and team 2 would still lose.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Sado22
but he uses Dark hadou like Akuma and his power in terms of Dark Hadou is said to be up there with Akuma's. so the reason we can't use that is...?

Akuma is a SEPARATE Character, Akuma's feats are LEAGUES beyond almost any other SFer, including Ryu... These reasons are more than enough. Remember, Akuma's been using the Dark Hadou for a very long time now, and he was trained in the full killing arts, Ryu wasn't.

Originally posted by Sado22
yeah you said that. and i said, purple or grey.

The grey one is the only official one, the Purple one is for CVS and Chaos only.

Originally posted by Sado22
which the official depiction of Evil ryu in the latest game directly contradicts because it does nothing to his gi or his skin or his hair. which is what i've been saying. and that is why it negates you're point that SF3GI shitgouki is the real one. is it really that hard to follow?

Is that it?

Are you done?

Your using Ryu as an example for Akuma now?

Your off your noggin...

Read above, Akuma's circumstances are entirely different... Ryu's Dark Hadou is naturally occuring, Akuma's is controlled and CONSIDERABLY stronger than ANYTHING Ryu can generate. Your sidestepping the issue.

Originally posted by Sado22
comparable in strength
same damn power source
why is it not comparable exactly?

~Sado

Comparable strength? not a f0cking chance

Completely different levels of that same power source, read above and stop strawmanning.

Sado22
not ryu but evil ryu. and we both evil ryu can make akuma run for his money based on AKUMA'S OWN WORDS:
"you possess the same power as I"

so like i said, if it didn't work for Evil Ryu, it won't work for gouki. simple as that.

~Sado

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Sado22
not ryu but evil ryu. and we both evil ryu can make akuma run for his money based on AKUMA'S OWN WORDS:
"you possess the same power as I"

so like i said, if it didn't work for Evil Ryu, it won't work for gouki. simple as that.

~Sado

Sado, your clinging onto that because it's the only strand you have, Akuma's level of power is Leagues beyond any form of Ryu.

And the rest is assumtion, simple as that.

Sado22
and yet, i have words from gouki's OWN MOUTH supporting what i said. and then there is the bit that its the sole reason why he's been asking ryu to unlock it.
YOUR claims are baseless. I have his own words to prove what i'm saying.

~Sado

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Sado22
and yet, i have words from gouki's OWN MOUTH supporting what i said. and then there is the bit that its the sole reason why he's been asking ryu to unlock it.
YOUR claims are baseless. I have his own words to prove what i'm saying.

~Sado

Ha!, mine are baseless? I told you where mine are from, all you have is proxy, IE: the fact that they use the same energy source, but your not even remotely considering Akuma's MASSIVE lead in experience and demonstrated power.

Once again, your vague quotation fails in the face of demonstrated fact, now GTFO my internet. evil face

Sado22
fool, akuma SAID they are equal in power. all you're doing is guessing that its not even though his own words DIRECTLY contradict what you're saying. GTFO foo.

~Sado

Darkstorm Zero
No Sado, he said their powers where the same, he didn't mention anything about equal.

ThunderGodEneru
Not to mention them being equal in power doesn't actually prove anything anyway.

Sado22
"you have the same power as I". seems it could go either way. and this time the japs are saying "power" which is what they mean when they're talking about "strength" (when the say "strong" they mean skill btw).
not to mention that regular ryu was shown to do just about fine with gouki in SF4 and on top of that Evil Ryu and Gouki's special intro they were pretty shown to be equals.


if you followed whats been happening thus far...then yes, it does no expression

~Sado

Darkstorm Zero
Sado, your taking a pretty sizable leap of faith with loose interpretation there, which is at best still suspect to other meanings. And that means, you've got no solid evidence which refutes me.... I'm sorry dude, but thats the way it is.

Sado22
solid evidence for what? for your stupid self-contradicting BS of a "proof" that the gouki in SF3 is the real shin gouki? something that we have no evidence for, which is directly contradicted by SF4 vids.

oh and now Akuma saying "you have the same power as i" does not mean that evil ryu and akuma are of comparable strengths just because YOU think akuma should be stronger. well here's the deal: how else do you translate "you have the same power as i" anyway? and why else would Akuma be chasing ryu for 10 years if it wasn't? the same evil ryu that was shown to be his equal in their game intros? the guy who was shaking the earth with just his transformation?
just stfu.

~Sado

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Sado22
solid evidence for what? for your stupid self-contradicting BS of a "proof" that the gouki in SF3 is the real shin gouki? something that we have no evidence for, which is directly contradicted by SF4 vids.

Sado, your really trying, I have to respect that, but the fact is, you don't read... you ignore whatever is conveniant and repeat points shot down already, let me make this PERFECTLY F0cking clear right now ok?

#1: Gouki became Shin Gouki in his fight with Ryu in 2nd impact, This fact is confirmed in AAC. *FACT*

#2: Once again, I never mentioned E/Ryu, and since the so-called Self Contradiction is based on what your gathering from Ryu/E.Ryu and not Gouki, is entirely your assumption and has no proven basis at all, let along anything solid.

Now, I have a question for you: Where did I contradict myself? or where did my evidence contradict itself?

Originally posted by Sado22
oh and now Akuma saying "you have the same power as i" does not mean that evil ryu and akuma are of comparable strengths just because YOU think akuma should be stronger. well here's the deal: how else do you translate "you have the same power as i" anyway? and why else would Akuma be chasing ryu for 10 years if it wasn't? the same evil ryu that was shown to be his equal in their game intros? the guy who was shaking the earth with just his transformation?
just stfu.

~Sado

Oh I dunno Sado, maybe it's because It could be that Ryu has ACCESS to the Dark Hadou Naturally? No, well hows about the fact that he could sense Ryu's Dark Hadou but didn't use it on Akuma?

Just like you said, they have the same energy source, but nowhere near equal power levels despite the common source, Akuma for one, has confirmed canon feats that are LEAGUES beyond ANYTHING any form of Ryu can do, this is a fact.

Akuma is nailing down Ryu because his POTENTIAL power may be enough to kill him, Akuma simply wishes to speed up the proccess by trying to force Ryu to utilise the Dark Hadou as he does. There is simply no way of determining wether or noth a Fully Awakened E.Ryu would be any kind of match for Akuma let alone Shin Akuma.

Right, now that Shin Akuma has been established as Canon fact by AAC and confirmed by me, can we simply leave this matter be Sado? I'm in no mood for continued sparrimg matches with you, we've been over this merry circus too many times in the past, Your going to continue to post here ignoring everything i've just said and recounting your only previously shot down point, that being the SF4 vid, which has been debunked 5 times now as having no relevance to the debate at hand.

Sado22
first things first, sorry being rude in the last post. it was uncalled for. my bad, man sad


okay, but was that "transformation" a fact? is it confirmed that shin gouki looks and transforms that very same way?


but its the same power source and just because its more or less than Gouki's doesn't matter because more or less would not alter the conditions of his transformations.


we have this one simple factor to count: why would akuma be going after ryu's ass if evil ryu was NOT comparable to him interms of power? heck, akuma literally coniseders ryu his archnemesis in this respect BECAUSE evil ryu is one of the few people who can actually kill him? i mean, do you really see akuma chasing ryu's ass for 10 years for nothing? in that light, his above quote does shed light on the matter. heck, there is another thing: why did he say "all other battles will seem like child's play" if their power was NOT the same? or atleast comparable?


and leagues above Gen too......but that never stopped Gen from whipping his butt in SFA3 now did it?


akuma is interested in Ryu's dark hadou. we all know it. and talking about potential and speeding up, you're pretty much just agreeing with me aren't you?

~Sado

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Sado22
first things first, sorry being rude in the last post. it was uncalled for. my bad, man sad

Tis cool Happy Dance

Originally posted by Sado22
okay, but was that "transformation" a fact? is it confirmed that shin gouki looks and transforms that very same way?

Yes, it is, and it does.

Originally posted by Sado22
but its the same power source and just because its more or less than Gouki's doesn't matter because more or less would not alter the conditions of his transformations.

Thats because Ryu doesn't technically transform as Akuma does.

Originally posted by Sado22
we have this one simple factor to count: why would akuma be going after ryu's ass if evil ryu was NOT comparable to him interms of power? heck, akuma literally coniseders ryu his archnemesis in this respect BECAUSE evil ryu is one of the few people who can actually kill him? i mean, do you really see akuma chasing ryu's ass for 10 years for nothing? in that light, his above quote does shed light on the matter. heck, there is another thing: why did he say "all other battles will seem like child's play" if their power was NOT the same? or atleast comparable?

Like I said, it's Ryu's potential power.

Then there is the line he said just after the one you quoted "When you have MASTERED your power, find me..." Namely when he has control over his Dark Hadou, Simply awakening it is not enough, E.Ryu is essentially a rage fuelled monster, and no real match for Akuma. He wants Ryu to embrace the Dark Hadou willingly and to master it as he does. Thats the reason he calls Ryu a spineless coward in the Trailer you posted, Ryu refuses to yield to the temptation for more power, and will not willingly awaken it or master it because of Gouken's teachings.

Originally posted by Sado22
and leagues above Gen too......but that never stopped Gen from whipping his butt in SFA3 now did it?

Lol Wut? Thats speculation from Tiamat! That never was confirmed. If that where true, Akuma would be dead.

Gen is an assasin, it's not in his character to return favours like that, thats why I disagree with this particular speculation from Tiamat.

Originally posted by Sado22
akuma is interested in Ryu's dark hadou. we all know it. and talking about potential and speeding up, you're pretty much just agreeing with me aren't you?

~Sado

Well, perhaps, Read above to get my view on it.

Sado22
thou art kind, Lord Darko smile


proof?


mastering one's potential and having it are two different things. i am not denying the fact that Gouki is more experienced with his power than Ryu is. but as it stands, they are equally powerful which is the sole reason why akuma's been doing what he's been doing.


maybe so, but fact remains that Gen was able to make Akuma get serious.......despite akuma having better feats. THAT was the point.

~Sado

Xplosive
Originally posted by Sado22
mastering one's potential and having it are two different things. i am not denying the fact that Gouki is more experienced with his power than Ryu is. but as it stands, they are equally powerful which is the sole reason why akuma's been doing what he's been doing.

Equally powerful? No. The same energy source, but doesn't mean equally powerful at their potential. I think Ryu is more powerful, but they are not equally powerful. Someone is more powerful.

ThunderGodEneru
Evil Ryu was equal to Gouki in SFA2 I think it was.

Gouki has gotten much stronger.

Darkstorm Zero
It all boils down to Gouki wanting Ryu's full potential fully mastered and in active use so he can finally use his full might in a match to the ultimate end.

Gouki would actually WANT Ryu to be stronger than himself, as he searches for the one who CAN defeat him.

Alan Kyder
Ryu can be stronger than Akuma and Akuma knows this. It's only a matter of time before Ryu reaches this "Gouken Type of Hadou".

Got no proof but if you look at how Capcom handles Ryu (not Ken...suckaz) it's pretty damn obvious.

M.Bison STILL wants Ryu's body. Even after he gets killed by Akuma.

Seth wants Ryu's power and NOT Akuma's. He even knows about Akuma.

Akuma wants to fight Ryu and on one else.

Zack Fair
But does Seth have any way of finding Gouki?

From what I saw in the anime they couldn't even locate Ryu. They had to **** up Ken's life once again to find him.

Darkstorm Zero
I dunno if S.I.N has any more of a way of finding Ryu than Shadaloo did, considering that S.I.N's technology is directly inherited from Shadaloo technology. Gouki can sense Ryu at great distances, so he can always find him.

Bison wants Ryu because Ryu has the unique ability to contain UNLIMITED energy, and he already has access to the naturally occurring Dark Hadou.

Seth covets this naturally occurring Dark Hadou for the BLEECE project. Gouki's Dark Hadou has been mastered and is therefore incompatible with either Bison or BLEECE

I am who I am
Originally posted by Zack Fair
But does Seth have any way of finding Gouki?

From what I saw in the anime they couldn't even locate Ryu. They had to **** up Ken's life once again to find him. I think Akuma would be easier to find. 1, Akuma is already usin' the Dark Hadou. 2. Akuma wont refuse a fight against cowards who hide behind tech. 3, Akuma's power level is phuckin' HUGE!Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I dunno if S.I.N has any more of a way of finding Ryu than Shadaloo did, considering that S.I.N's technology is directly inherited from Shadaloo technology. Gouki can sense Ryu at great distances, so he can always find him.

Bison wants Ryu because Ryu has the unique ability to contain UNLIMITED energy, and he already has access to the naturally occurring Dark Hadou.

Seth covets this naturally occurring Dark Hadou for the BLEECE project. Gouki's Dark Hadou has been mastered and is therefore incompatible with either Bison or BLEECE I just think Ryu's dark powers are stronger (not now but they could be) which is why the "what if" Ryu slays Shin Akuma in Alpha3. I mean Evil Ryu is the ONLY character in that game to fight Shin Akuma, period. I spend my SF games playin' wit Ken, I didn't pick Evil Ryu til weeks later and found out for the 1st time that there was a "Super Akuma".

Darkstorm Zero
Nah, not stronger. Not even the "what if" Evil Ryu is that strong. However it is stated that Evil Ryu is in the same league as ordinary Gouki, in terms of power at the very least.

As for possible potential power, well.. Ryu's potential power could be even higher than any Darkstalker powers we know of.. Or so they say.. The ability to hold unlimited energies is an incredible ability indeed.

I am who I am
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Nah, not stronger. Not even the "what if" Evil Ryu is that strong. However it is stated that Evil Ryu is in the same league as ordinary Gouki, in terms of power at the very least.

As for possible potential power, well.. Ryu's potential power could be even higher than any Darkstalker powers we know of.. Or so they say.. The ability to hold unlimited energies is an incredible ability indeed. The "what if" Evil Ryu KILLED Shin Akuma and all of Shadowloo. Not the other way around. It is officially stated in the All About Capcom Fighting Games that the SFA3's Evil Ryu story would be the "What if Ryu fully embraced the Dark Hadou"? This is why through out the story he struggles against it and then fully embraces it to kill Akuma and take his place as "Supreme Master of Fists" in the end.

And I really don't think Evil Ryu could phuck wit any REAL DS, he is just a man. He could be 1 of the few humans to dwell in Makai wit no problem wit the Dark Hadou and all. I think Bison was just talkin' shit when he was hollerin' 'bout unlimited power and immortality (could be wrong). I think guys like Akuma and Evil Ryu would be at a B+ in Makai, they could join Talbain's family.

Darkstorm Zero
It's non-canon reguardless, but no... E.Ryu would never have won that match, the gap bitween the two is simply to big...

E.Ryu and Gouki would quite literally curb the hell out of Talbain... Mid tiers havn't done anything even remotely close to sinking islands... Hell man, even Bishamon hasn't done anything that wild.

I am who I am
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
It's non-canon reguardless, but no... E.Ryu would never have won that match, the gap bitween the two is simply to big...

E.Ryu and Gouki would quite literally curb the hell out of Talbain... Mid tiers havn't done anything even remotely close to sinking islands... Hell man, even Bishamon hasn't done anything that wild. Hey, I'm only goin' by what Capcom said. We all know it aint canon but that's how it woulda went down.

Talbain is just as fast as Ryu if not faster and I aint never seen Talbain wit power feats like E.Ryu and Akuma but I have seen Talbain slice chumps in half wit his bare hands. One wave from Talbains QUICK hands and it's over. And Bishomon could just still their souls...end of fight.

Darkstorm Zero
Bish has to KILL them first before he can attempt that. And Talbain is fast, but he can't 'port, he'd have a hectic time trying to keep up. And we can't forget th e shoto's newly reinforced durability, like tanking bullets to the face without so much as flinching...

I am who I am
I don't remember Bmon needin' to kill in order to steel souls but cuz I ain't sure I'll just check back at the gams and stuff.

So what's stronger, takin' bullets to the face or bein slashed by a DS wit ft long claws that can slash so hard that it slices peeps in 2. Or in half. And I can prove that.

Darkstorm Zero
If they can survive mountain crushing blows that sink islands, a slice from a claw is like getting a papercut, IOW, it's going to do precisely jack & $h!t to them.

I am who I am
Cuz Akuma can bust islands doesn't mean he uses that much force against Ryu. I doubt he ever did. Akuma could prolly take Talbain but not Ryu.

Darkstorm Zero
He's been "Taking" Ryu ever since SFA, and Ryu only won 1 measely test against him, before he sunk an island...

Yeah, Akuma loses to Ryu... if we discount the entire story arc bitween em.

I am who I am
No, I meant Akuma would kill Talbain and that Ryu could not kill Talbain.
Akuma will destroy Ryu, I just think that Ryu is "potentially" stronger.

Darkstorm Zero
Ah, I see, my bad for the mis-interpretation.

quanchi112
Team 2 wins.

ThunderGodEneru
Originally posted by quanchi112
Team 2 wins. I would LOVE to hear your reasoning for this.

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