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Billy club for DD, nunchaku for Shang-Chi.

What would be the outcome?

Anyone?

Shang.

shang-ch due to chi amping and the ability for powerful range chi attacks

What are those range chi attacks? Never seen it. He shoots blasts from his hands or what?

And DD can throw his trusty ricocheting billy club, remember

DD.

i think DD might take it

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
What are those range chi attacks? Never seen it. He shoots blasts from his hands or what?

Thats a very good question-what are these range chi attacks-does anyone have any scans??

It's the kamehameha.

This

http://www.angelfire.com/ut/ht1007/dbz/GokouKamehameha.gif

Now seriously, anyone have the scans with Shang-Chi performing those range chi attacks? Does he still keep this ability?

Close, I'll say DD.

DD.

I guess I'll go with DD.

Isn't Shang-Chi was supposed to be the best Martial Artist in Marvel

Originally posted by Mrblonde
Isn't Shang-Chi was supposed to be the best Martial Artist in Marvel Wolverine is.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Wolverine is.

Actually Temugin,Mantis,Moondragon,Mandarin and Gamora are. But I get what you mean.

Originally posted by Warrior18
Actually Temugin,Mantis,Moondragon,Mandarin and Gamora are. But I get what you mean.

Mantis, Moondragon, and, of course, Gamora are.

Mandarin!? Heck no!

Who is Temugin?

To me it boils down on how effective you are during combat. Not how many styles you know.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Mantis, Moondragon, and, of course, Gamora are.

Mandarin!? Heck no!

Who is Temugin?

Mandarins kid

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Mantis, Moondragon, and, of course, Gamora are.

Mandarin!? Heck no!

Who is Temugin?

Temugin is Mandarin's son.
Him and I think his father too have fought Iron Man barehanded.
Temugin did it without rings against Tony in older armour I think and the inability to fly. He kicked Tony's arse.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
To me it boils down on how effective you are during combat. Not how many styles you know.

I know...............and they are also all insanely effective during combat too.

ZOMIGOD CHIBLITZ FTW!

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
ZOMIGOD CHIBLITZ FTW!

Most definately.

Seriously though I say even split. If you were to push me for a winner I would say Shang for the ever so slight majority.

Let's see...

Daredevil

- superhuman senses and echolocation
- better acrobat (debatable)
- suit designed by Reed Richards which enhances his durability
- ricocheting billy clubs (plus the immobilizing cord)


Shang-Chi

- more skilled (most probably)
- Chi amping
- long range attacks (I need scans though)

Nunchaku would probably be a non-factor, I don't see it as an advantage over DD.

Oh and Shang has those bullet-deflecting bracers. I forgot that.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

Shang-Chi

- more skilled (most probably)

No not really didnt chi get decimated by Wolverine, didnt DD one shot Wolverine?


Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

- Chi amping

Blown out of proportion.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW


- long range attacks (I need scans though)

Dont think he has one.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No not really didnt chi get decimated by Wolverine, didnt DD one shot Wolverine?

Shang-Chi fared well against Logan in Wolverine: First Class #9. And DD also got handled by Wolvie.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Shang-Chi fared well against Logan in Wolverine: First Class #9.


I think that was prior to the fight I was refering to. Also in that story he later admitted Wolverine was better.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

And DD also got handled by Wolvie.

That was armoured DD and theres proof that armoured DD wasnt as good at h2h as DD in red.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I think that was prior to the fight I was refering to. Also in that story he later admitted Wolverine was better.



That was armoured DD and theres proof that armoured DD wasnt as good at h2h as DD in red.

Yeah, you're right. It was prior to Shang's fight with Bone Claw Wolverine.

Now you are the master. - he didn't admit Logan was better though, he simply congratulated Logan on understanding his teachings (apple thing). It's my interpretation.

In Enemy of the State mind-controlled Logan manhandled DD. Matt eventually knocked him off balance, but hairy X-Man looked better in that fight, c'mon.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yeah, you're right. It was prior to Shang's fight with Bone Claw Wolverine.

Now you are the master. - he didn't admit Logan was better though, he simply congratulated Logan on understanding his teachings (apple thing). It's my interpretation.

You could see it that way, but the fact he got his arse kicked later on doesnt help your point.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

In Enemy of the State mind-controlled Logan manhandled DD. Matt eventually knocked him off balance, but hairy X-Man looked better in that fight, c'mon.

Nah man you best read it again. DD was holding his own against Wolverine and members of The Hand, to be fair though we find out he had a piece of his soul missing.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You could see it that way, but the fact he got his arse kicked later on doesnt help your point.





Shang almost certainly meant Logan being the master in a philosophical.....finding oneself blah blah blah etc way. Shang actually looked very good in that fight even though Logan was striking with the flat side of his blades.I'm assuming they aren't double edged yes?

The fight where logan owned him although chronologically after the above fight, was written a while ago was it not? Shang was probably the only top tier Marvel could get away with punking like that because of his B-list status.I think this recent fight was Marvel trying to re-establish Shang in the wake of that embarrassing pwnage.

Still going with DD ftw.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Mantis, Moondragon, and, of course, Gamora are.

Mandarin!? Heck no!

Who is Temugin?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Soooo...

Zombie hand ninjas didn't seem to bother Murdock at all.

So the fact it was many people plus wolverine vs DD is irrelevant. All you have to say is that they didnt seem to bother him much?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

One kick from Wolverine sent DD flying. DD managed to avoid just one slash. In the end he improvised and used that dumbbell. Logan wasn't even KO'd. It helped him with shrugging off mind-control.

In a real fight, he would just get up, get the blade out of his back and continue fighting. Like he always does.

So the fact that DD was fighting many people and DD managed to chuck Wolverine and two other hand ninjas is also irrelevant? But you're making a fuss that he only dodged one blow and had to use a dumbell?

Whats the "proof" that armored DD wasn't as good of a fighter?

Stone telling DD not to be reckless.
http://img255.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dontberecklessdddx3.png
Buskwacker saying the real DD would never take a bullet.
http://img241.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ddtakesabullet2nc6.png

They both indicate that the armoured DD was more wreckless and aggressive. I also think that it was also implied that DD was suffering some sort of mental breakdown.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Stone telling DD not to be reckless.
http://img255.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dontberecklessdddx3.png
Buskwacker saying the real DD would never take a bullet.
http://img241.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ddtakesabullet2nc6.png

They both indicate that the armoured DD was more wreckless and aggressive. I also think that it was also implied that DD was suffering some sort of mental breakdown.

Is this the instance when Typhoid Mary messed with his head?

Originally posted by Warrior18
Is this the instance when Typhoid Mary messed with his head?

Dont know. Im just pointing out armour DD was not at the top of his game.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
So the fact it was many people plus wolverine vs DD is irrelevant. All you have to say is that they didnt seem to bother him much?



So the fact that DD was fighting many people and DD managed to chuck Wolverine and two other hand ninjas is also irrelevant? But you're making a fuss that he only dodged one blow and had to use a dumbell?

Overall, Wolverine looked superior to Matt in that fight.

And do I really have to remind you that he was mind-controlled and missing a part of his soul? It just makes Devil look worse.


Let's take a look at the other fights. Even when Ennis was writing it, Wolverine still cut Matt's billy club to pieces. He repeated it in Fallen Son. Armored DD may have not been in the peak shape, still putting him in a choke-hold is quite a feat. Especially considering the fact that Matt is an expert escapologist.

We're a bit off-topic. Does Wolverine really need to make a guest appearance in my thread?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW



Armored DD may have not been in the peak shape, still putting him in a choke-hold is quite a feat. Especially considering the fact that Matt is an expert escapologist.



Not denying the feat, calling it PIS or anything like that but using it to argue for Wolverine's superiority is flawed in my opinion.

I just wanted to sum up their encounters and point out that DD's track record against Logan ain't so impressive.

With all due respect Phantom Zone, I think that using example of Matt stunning Logan with Adam's apple hit in order to prove Devil's superiority over Shang-Chi is flawed.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Overall, Wolverine looked superior to Matt in that fight.

Lets put it this way DD would have eventually got killed but he did well considering the cirumstances. The odds were stacked against DD thats why he looked better.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

And do I really have to remind you that he was mind-controlled and missing a part of his soul? It just makes Devil look worse.

Theres no proof he was fighting mind-control at that point. Yes he was missing a piece of his sould but I dont think he was hindered by a big amount.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

Let's take a look at the other fights. Even when Ennis was writing it, Wolverine still cut Matt's billy club to pieces. He repeated it in Fallen Son.


Whats wrong with you today? He cut his baton but the fact that DD one-shoted him is irrelevant?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

Armored DD may have not been in the peak shape, still putting him in a choke-hold is quite a feat. Especially considering the fact that Matt is an expert escapologist.

Ok but you do realise that if it was red DD that wouldnt have happened dont you?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

We're a bit off-topic. Does Wolverine really need to make a guest appearance in my thread?

Its not off-topic really im comparing DDs performance against Wolverine to Shang Chi and trying to deduce who is the most skilled fighter. Also Shin Kuei got pawned by Taskmaster, DD did better. Shin Kuei has been shown to stalemate Shang in h2h.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I just wanted to sum up their encounters and point out that DD's track record against Logan ain't so impressive.

With all due respect Phantom Zone, I think that using example of Matt stunning Logan with Adam's apple hit in order to prove Devil's superiority over Shang-Chi is flawed.

I dunno man I think you might be on crack today.

Anyway the point is DD has done better against Wolverine than Shang.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Stone telling DD not to be reckless.
http://img255.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dontberecklessdddx3.png
Buskwacker saying the real DD would never take a bullet.
http://img241.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ddtakesabullet2nc6.png

They both indicate that the armoured DD was more wreckless and aggressive. I also think that it was also implied that DD was suffering some sort of mental breakdown.

Neither of those indicated that he was somehow a worse fighter, they both indicated that he was wearing armor... which was never up for debate in the first place.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Theres no proof he was fighting mind-control at that point. Yes he was missing a piece of his sould but I dont think he was hindered by a big amount.


Except... you... know... he said he was... and so did other peope... and it was a part of the story?

I forgot, you think Wolverine was fighting the mind-control EXCEPT when he was fighting Daredevil. Ofcourse... because that makes sense.

Wolverine missing part of his soul lost to Shogun. Wolverine with his soul wreaked Shogun and Lazaer at the same time.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok but you do realise that if it was red DD that wouldnt have happened dont you?


Based on what?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Anyway the point is DD has done better against Wolverine than Shang.

Shang has one decent showing against Wolverine and one low... it's fifty-fifty...

Ennis' DD stunned Logan, I admit it's quite a feat (PIS-feat, but still). Armored one got put in a choke-hold. Red one got disarmed in Fallen Son and manhandled in EOTS.

So I wouldn't say that Matt has done that much better against Logan than Shang-Chi...

Typhoid Mary was screwing with DD's head.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Shang has one decent showing against Wolverine and one low... it's fifty-fifty...

Originally posted by Warrior18
Typhoid Mary was screwing with DD's head.

No she wasn't.

Looks like Wolverine loses.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Lets put it this way DD would have eventually got killed but he did well considering the cirumstances. The odds were stacked against DD thats why he looked better.

He looked better 'cause he's shown that he's stronger (claws kept moving closer to Matt's face when they struggled) and more skilled (kick to the head sent DD flying, solar-plexus knee attack stunned him...)

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Theres no proof he was fighting mind-control at that point. Yes he was missing a piece of his sould but I dont think he was hindered by a big amount.

Sure, sure. When he was fighting DD, he decided to stop resisting and go all out

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Whats wrong with you today? He cut his baton but the fact that DD one-shoted him is irrelevant?

Ennis is funny. Logan took multiple nerve strikes from Shingen and Echo, his throat has been slashed a few dozen times... and it didn't
put him down.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok but you do realise that if it was red DD that wouldnt have happened dont you?

Need more scans of armored DD's inferiority to red one.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Its not off-topic really im comparing DDs performance against Wolverine to Shang Chi and trying to deduce who is the most skilled fighter. Also Shin Kuei got pawned by Taskmaster, DD did better. Shin Kuei has been shown to stalemate Shang in h2h.

Fair enough. How do you think DD would fare against Paladin? Have they fought?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I dunno man I think you might be on crack today.

Really mature comment. http://images.killermovies.com/forums/customsmilies/biscuits.gif

..

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Neither of those indicated that he was somehow a worse fighter, they both indicated that he was wearing armor... which was never up for debate in the first place.

The point is that he was acting wrecklessly. Hell Stone even said it.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Except... you... know... he said he was... and so did other peope... and it was a part of the story?

The bits where DD was actually fighting Wolverine there was no proof of him fighting mind control, if he did that was prior to there fight.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

I forgot, you think Wolverine was fighting the mind-control EXCEPT when he was fighting Daredevil. Ofcourse... because that makes sense.


Again when he actually fought Wolverine from what we saw there was no indication of him fighting mind control is that too hard for you to understand?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Wolverine missing part of his soul lost to Shogun. Wolverine with his soul wreaked Shogun and Lazaer at the same time.

Yes I know, now could you prove to me this severaly affected his h2h.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He looked better 'cause he's shown that he's stronger (claws kept moving closer to Matt's face when they struggled) and more skilled (kick to the head sent DD flying, solar-plexus knee attack stunned him...)


Again what about the fact he was fighting hand ninjas? You do realise when Wolverine dodged DDs baton thats what DD planned?

What about when he chucked two hand ninjas AND Wolverine through a door and down the stairs you do realise how much force he had to exert then? You dont think that left him open to get kicked? So you're ignoring that but focusing on the fact that DD got kicked and kneed and had to pick up a weapon?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

Sure, sure. When he was fighting DD, he decided to stop resisting and go all out

Sure show me on panel evidence where he was resisting mind-control. Its not like when he was fighting Thing were almost go clobbered becsue he was fighting it


Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

Ennis is funny. Logan took multiple nerve strikes from Shingen and Echo, his throat has been slashed a few dozen times... and it didn't
put him down.

Lol and there are example of him being put down by sword strike from Gorgon even getting put down by being belted in the head. Wolverine also couldnt breath when Gorgon impaled him on the sword and couldnt react. The feats vary just because you dont like it doesnt make it PIS.


Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

Need more scans of armored DD's inferiority to red one.

LOL well im sorry that all I got but this is what another poster said about this on another forum



Also this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daredevil_ (Marvel_Comics)

Daredevil's secret identity becomes public knowledge. Forced to fake his own death and change his uniform to an armored "razor costume", Murdock undergoes one of his numerous breakdowns. The change does not last, and Daredevil soon returns to his traditional red costume, while Murdock finds a way to convince the world that he is not, in fact, secretly Daredevil (courtesy of a deus ex machina doppelgänger).


Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

Fair enough. How do you think DD would fare against Paladin? Have they fought?

DD would kick his arse.

Oh and just so you know im not using EOTS to say that DD can beat Wolverine I know his mind was affected but I stll think it was a good feat and we need to consider he was fighting many people as well.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin


Whats the "proof" that armored DD wasn't as good of a fighter?
It was implied that his skills during that time weren't up to par with that armor when someone mentioned how he didn't appear as capable as before.

It's kind of ironic though since IIRC it was also during that time that he did exceptionally well against Venom.

And I'm still wondering where these ranged chi blasts come into play.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
No she wasn't.

Could have sworn almost immediately after he subdued DD, Logan said something basically to that effect.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Again what about the fact he was fighting hand ninjas? You do realise when Wolverine dodged DDs baton thats what DD planned?

What about when he chucked two hand ninjas AND Wolverine through a door and down the stairs you do realise how much force he had to exert then? You dont think that left him open to get kicked? So you're ignoring that but focusing on the fact that DD got kicked and kneed and had to pick up a weapon?

He had to chuck these ninjas to protect himself from being stabbed. Actually he got lucky they've been there! BTW - really intelligent fighting technique, falling down the stairs

Logan killed literally hundreds of those ninjas if not more. He was unscathed after this. You're saying that a dozen or so can tire Matt out and that much distract him? Well, that speaks for itself.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Sure show me on panel evidence where he was resisting mind-control. Its not like when he was fighting Thing were almost go clobbered becsue he was fighting it

OK... even if he WASN'T resisting mind-control, it still had an effect on him. An effect resulting in skill decrease, it's pretty obvious.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Lol and there are example of him being put down by sword strike from Gorgon even getting put down by being belted in the head. Wolverine also couldnt breath when Gorgon impaled him on the sword and couldnt react. The feats vary just because you dont like it doesnt make it PIS.

Sorry? Those instances you listed just prove Ennis wrong. Firstly, sword strike >>> Adam's apple hit. Secondly, Logan was already affected by methane.



Originally posted by Phantom Zone
LOL well im sorry that all I got but this is what another poster said about this on another forum



Also this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daredevil_ (Marvel_Comics)

Daredevil's secret identity becomes public knowledge. Forced to fake his own death and change his uniform to an armored "razor costume", Murdock undergoes one of his numerous breakdowns. The change does not last, and Daredevil soon returns to his traditional red costume, while Murdock finds a way to convince the world that he is not, in fact, secretly Daredevil (courtesy of a deus ex machina doppelgänger).

So Matt's escapologist skills were affected, too? I beg to differ.


Originally posted by Phantom Zone
DD would kick his arse.

Sure he would. Question is, would that be a flawless victory? Shang-Chi effortlessly dealt with Paladin. And you know, that guy gave Spidey problems in the past. He even withstood high caliber bullets fired from the freakin tank.

good lord alf.........stop this is retarded. You always do this shit. we know you hate wolverine, but good lord you don't need to say stupid things to pick fights. This is not the thread for this make one if you want and don't bring up pis feats.

Fact DD in the ennis issue was pis.

Fact Logan was mind controlled and fighting it in EOTS

Fact Logan out fought DD in h2h combat before

Fact Shang-chi did good, however it was heavly implied Logan had learn what he needed to and had overcome what shang-chi used to gain an advantage

Fact Logan out fought hang-chi in a later time


So there no reason for Wolverine to be broguht up in this thread and yes it was your fault for this arguement being started Alf and if you keep it up you will likly be warned.

Okay, didn't Wolverine punk both Lazaer and Shogun BEFORE he got his missing piece back? I know I'm off topic here but it seems relevant. Wolverine's practically the Brett Favre of the Marvel U - he can either play one hell of a game and put up MVP numbers or stink the joint out so bad with his lousy performance that you wonder why anyone would consider him among the greats at all..so comparing DD's fights with Logan isn't really evidence considering that you should probably take Logan at his best - and what he's replicated - not at his worst. Therefore, if you take him at his best, he beats DD hands down. Since Chi fared well against Wolverine, I would say he is superior to DD. Chi showed he can match Logans skill and that's something DD has never showed. Let me more clear...Chi popped Logan twice in the face...that wasn't Logan at his best. Then Logan got up and they both fought using skill until Logan was about to fall off the edge. Seriously, the chop to the throat thing can't be used because it's an extrememly low showing for Wolverine. He was having one of his moments. Even under Claremont, Logan has shown that arrogance and careless can get him into trouble. He doesn't always do his best. For example, he was so prideful in the danger room training storm to fight that he actually got knocked down by storm. They were using Boken and she even managed to score the "killing" blow. Right after that, Logan got tossed around by Bishop before the fight was broken up. The point is, that one could conclude that Storm is Logan's superior in H2H but I seriously don't believe that anyone smokes that much crack. Now if he can get knocked down by storm at his worst, I'm sure someone of DD's skill can score a fluke blow to the throat. And it was a fluke okay, there is no denying it. Just because DD lucked out hitting Wolverine in the throat does not mean he can do as good as Chi did against Logan. Chi matched Wolverine back in the day and I think this is enough skill to give him the win.

It's true.

Man, that was disorganised lol..

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He had to chuck these ninjas to protect himself from being stabbed. Actually he got lucky they've been there! BTW - really intelligent fighting technique, falling down the stairs

Logan killed literally hundreds of those ninjas if not more. He was unscathed after this. You're saying that a dozen or so can tire Matt out and that much distract him? Well, that speaks for itself.



OK... even if he WASN'T resisting mind-control, it still had an effect on him. An effect resulting in skill decrease, it's pretty obvious.



Sorry? Those instances you listed just prove Ennis wrong. Firstly, sword strike >>> Adam's apple hit. Secondly, Logan was already affected by methane.





So Matt's escapologist skills were affected, too? I beg to differ.




Sure he would. Question is, would that be a flawless victory? Shang-Chi effortlessly dealt with Paladin. And you know, that guy gave Spidey problems in the past. He even withstood high caliber bullets fired from the freakin tank.

Forget it im not wasting my time.

DD did better vs Taskmaster and Iron Fist and Shin Kuei did worse.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Forget it im not wasting my time.

DD did better vs Taskmaster and Iron Fist and Shin Kuei did worse.

"ABC" logic doesn't work. Good to know though.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
"ABC" logic doesn't work. Good to know though.

Yeah it does sometimes. Sometimes thats all you have. Why do you think Shang wins?

Shang.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah it does sometimes. Sometimes thats all you have. Why do you think Shang wins?

Where did I say that? I'm not sure who'd win. I'm defending Shang-Chi because he's like Marvel's Bruce Lee. He's considered to be one of the best martial artists in MU, has an excellent track record.

DD has much more appearances though. More fights with metahumans. I think it would be an even fight, DD might take a slight majority.

bump

Shang-chi has some crazy durability, and he at least the same speed, strength and skill as DD

shang chi FTW barely landing the KO punch due to the damn radar sense.

Daredevil 9 : 9 Shang-Chi

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Let's see...

Daredevil

- superhuman senses and echolocation (radar sense)
- better acrobat (equilibrium comparable to that of Spider-Man)
- suit designed by Reed Richards which enhances his durability (read "Guardian Devil"
- ricocheting billy clubs (plus the immobilizing cord)


Shang-Chi

- more skilled (most probably)
- Chi amping
- weapon master (he has nunchaku for this fight)
- bullet-deflecting bracers
- uncanny ability to distribute the trauma equally over his body

Fixed.

Originally posted by Harbinger
Shang. Still this.

Who knows more about pressure points?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Who knows more about pressure points?


batman


the reason i say shang is cause how he took does blows from the warbound guy absorbing the impact into his body.

any guy with that level of knowledge and staying calm in fights i think should win.

Daredevil 6/10

bump