Silver surfer and Genis vell vs Wonderwoman, Superman and MArtian manhunter.

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ultimatethor
Silver surfer and Genis vell ( Photon incarnation) vs Wonderwoman Supes and MM.

CIS off.

Galan007
T1.

Sasaraixx
Yikes. Team 1. sad

quanchi112
Team 1 wins.

Nihilist
team 1 in a bit of a stomp

Slaanesh
team 1

Raoul
Originally posted by ultimatethor
Silver surfer and Genis vell ( Photon incarnation) vs Wonderwoman Supes and MM.

CIS off.

why diana and j'onn? why?

team 1...

carver9
For some strange reason I give this to te dc team. You all are underrating the martian and diana and with superman being there I think that dc team could get a 6/10.

Just my opinion though.

ultimatethor
Originally posted by Raoul
why diana and j'onn? why?

team 1...

Are they that weak? I mean arent they around supes level though not exactly equal to him?

Raoul
Originally posted by ultimatethor
Are they that weak? I mean arent they around supes level though not exactly equal to him?

they are, but they're also quite similar to clark... a bit of variety never hurt anyone... stick out tongue

ultimatethor
Originally posted by Raoul
they are, but they're also quite similar to clark... a bit of variety never hurt anyone... stick out tongue

Hmm quite true though i have always considered them as sort of the big guns of the JLA ( no disrespect to GLs).

Raoul
Originally posted by ultimatethor
Hmm quite true though i have always considered them as sort of the big guns of the JLA ( no disrespect to GLs).

nah, you could make that argument very easily...

ultimatethor
Originally posted by Raoul
nah, you could make that argument very easily...

Well i dont read much Dc but i do have infinite crisis and seeing superboy prime destroy nearly the whole gl corps just left me with a bad impression of them in general though i suppose the higher level ones like hal jordan would have fared better.

Slaanesh
getting trash by prime is not a bad thing..prime will beat anyone standing in his way..

Raoul
Originally posted by ultimatethor
Well i dont read much Dc but i do have infinite crisis and seeing superboy prime destroy nearly the whole gl corps just left me with a bad impression of them in general though i suppose the higher level ones like hal jordan would have fared better.

all but say a dozen or so GL's are cannon fodder. literally.

ultimatethor
Originally posted by Raoul
all but say a dozen or so GL's are cannon fodder. literally.

Yeah thats the impression i got, so much for the whole "most powerful weapon in the universe" thing. As for the thread, maybe i should chuck wonder woman and add flash instead. Would that be a better scenario?

Raoul
Originally posted by ultimatethor
Yeah thats the impression i got, so much for the whole "most powerful weapon in the universe" thing. As for the thread, maybe i should chuck wonder woman and add flash instead. Would that be a better scenario?

honestly, i doubt it would make a huge difference lol...

and tis not the weapon that's the problem, most of the users just haven't got a clue lol...

darthgoober
Originally posted by Raoul
honestly, i doubt it would make a huge difference lol...

and tis not the weapon that's the problem, most of the users just haven't got a clue lol...
Green Lantern "Basic Training" sucks. Kilowog might be one of the GL's of note, but he seems to lack the ability to properly pass on all that knowledge to his students. I think I even remember Sinestro being pretty shocked at the low standards of Hal's training in Secret Origins...

Raoul
Originally posted by darthgoober
Green Lantern "Basic Training" sucks. Kilowog might be one of the GL's of note, but he seems to lack the ability to properly pass on all that knowledge to his students. I think I even remember Sinestro being pretty shocked at the low standards of Hal's training in Secret Origins...

i think it's just more a shortage of willpower and imagination...

like, 99% of gl's make beams and shields. they need to wake up...

Philosophía
Originally posted by carver9
For some strange reason I give this to te dc team. You all are underrating the martian and diana and with superman being there I think that dc team could get a 6/10.

Just my opinion though.

Did you hit your head, your big, smarter brother started using your account, or are you just faking the backing up-DC characters so that you don't look like an idiot with every post ?

Anti-Monitor
Originally posted by ultimatethor
Yeah thats the impression i got, so much for the whole "most powerful weapon in the universe" thing. As for the thread, maybe i should chuck wonder woman and add flash instead. Would that be a better scenario?

Hellz no to the Flash, some people are going to so over power him in a forum fight more so than Supes.

carver9

Mindset
Originally posted by carver9

If I was to set this fight up I would have martian fight surfer until supes and wonder woman get the chance and opportunity to ko genis which WILL happen.
Not really.

He can bfr.

carver9
Originally posted by Mindset
Not really.

He can bfr.

Who are you talking about, surfer or genis.

Sasaraixx
Originally posted by Raoul
why diana and j'onn? why?

team 1...

I'm sorry, but why Superman? Why?

No one on team 2 can beat SS but Superman just gets destroyed by him even faster. With cosmic awareness and the ability to drain his solar energy, what is Clark going to do against him? I just don't see a scenario where Clark can win.

I don't know a lot about genis, but he also has cosmic awareness and energy absorption abilities, right? If he can do to Clark what Surfer can do, then Clark is pretty useless in this fight.

Diana doesn't fair much better. I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt that her bracers and shield effect would work against the 2 but without a whole bunch of other gear and prep, that's all she has.

J'onn is at least more versatile. Maybe pair him up with Hal and Orion?

These are just two opponents who don't match up well for Clark and Diana. It's not a comment on their standing in the DCU.

Again, it's just my opinion.

Anti-Monitor
Originally posted by Sasaraixx
I'm sorry, but why Superman? Why?

No one on team 3 can beat SS but Superman just gets destroyed by him even faster. With cosmic awareness and the ability to drain his solar energy, what is Clark going to do against him? I just don't see a scenario where Clark can win.

I don't know a lot about genis, but he also has cosmic awareness and energy absorption abilities, right? If he can do to Clark what Surfer can do, then Clark is pretty useless in this fight.



Because according to some people Supes weaknesses cant be exploited that quickly.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by Sasaraixx
I'm sorry, but why Superman? Why?

No one on team 2 can beat SS but Superman just gets destroyed by him even faster. With cosmic awareness and the ability to drain his solar energy, what is Clark going to do against him? I just don't see a scenario where Clark can win.

I don't know a lot about genis, but he also has cosmic awareness and energy absorption abilities, right? If he can do to Clark what Surfer can do, then Clark is pretty useless in this fight.

Diana doesn't fair much better. I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt that her bracers and shield effect would work against the 2 but without a whole bunch of other gear and prep, that's all she has.

J'onn is at least more versatile. Maybe pair him up with Hal and Orion?

These are just two opponents who don't match up well for Clark and Diana. It's not a comment on their standing in the DCU.

Again, it's just my opinion.

It's a overrated weakness since supes has shown to recover nearly instantly from solar draining,resisting the affects of K-nite and even fighting past red solar enery...and oddly enough some of his most impressive feats come from being depowered. I suppose the other more important fact that is being overlooked is supes speed...and the huge leap of judgment we are making by assuming SS will not not only be able to recreate k-nite and red solar enery but that he will do in a timly manner while Supes simply forgets his superior speed advantage. Overlooking supes superior combat speed, overall better stats and incredible MA abiltiy...this fight is hardly the way most peopl are making it out to be. Sure, SS has versatility but supes has overcome versatile opponents before....and usually ones that are equal if not downright more powerful then Norrin.

Anti-Monitor
Originally posted by Anti-Monitor
Because according to some people Supes weaknesses cant be exploited that quickly.

Which is why Supes is getting more of a crappier character each day.

Bouboumaster
Originally posted by The Great Galen
It's a overrated weakness since supes has shown to recover nearly instantly from solar draining,resisting the affects of K-nite and even fighting past red solar enery...and oddly enough some of his most impressive feats come from being depowered. I suppose the other more important fact that is being overlooked is supes speed...and the huge leap of judgment we are making by assuming SS will not not only be able to recreate k-nite and red solar enery but that he will do in a timly manner while Supes simply forgets his superior speed advantage. Overlooking supes superior combat speed, overall better stats and incredible MA abiltiy...this fight is hardly the way most peopl are making it out to be. Sure, SS has versatility but supes has overcome versatile opponents before....and usually ones that are equal if not downright more powerful then Norrin.

And what if Surfer use Yellow Solar Energy Drain with one hand, Red Son Beam with the other and fart kryptonite? Would Sups would resist to that!?
Happy Dance


But seriously, team 1 stomp.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
And what if Surfer use Yellow Solar Energy Drain with one hand, Red Son Beam with the other and fart kryptonite? Would Sups would resist to that!?
Happy Dance


But seriously, team 1 stomp.

Or if supes just blitz SS since he is faster in combat and KO's SS since he does have better stats afterall, although I guess it's common for SS to use his cosmic awarness and recreate rare energy frequencies incredibly fast...especially to a character that is second only to wally in terms of speed.

Anti-Monitor
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
And what if Surfer use Yellow Solar Energy Drain with one hand, Red Son Beam with the other and fart kryptonite? Would Sups would resist to that!?
Happy Dance



Of course he does... roll eyes (sarcastic)

Bouboumaster
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Or if supes just blitz SS since he is faster in combat and KO's SS since he does have better stats afterall, although I guess it's common for SS to use his cosmic awarness and recreate rare energy frequencies incredibly fast...especially to a character that is second only to wally in terms of speed.

Or what if Surfer bull rush Sups head, because he have one of the biggest straight line speed in the comics, and use the trick said above by myself?

Or just bfr his ass 10 years light away, kick with Genis the other two asses and finish Sups in a fraction of second?

The Great Galen
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Or what if Surfer bull rush Sups head, because he have one of the biggest straight line speed in the comics, and use the trick said above by myself?

Or just bfr his ass 10 years light away, kick with Genis the other two asses and finish Sups in a fraction of second?

BFR has worked agaisnt supes when exactly...and supes has resisted skyfather level transmutation and somehow only a herald level being will do what hasn't been done before lol. Bullrushing....SS has done that when exactly and besides that supes could probably do the same since he does have the battle tendency to fight that way. SS bullrush has been countered and reacted to by Thanos of all people and supes>Thanos in regards to speed reflex.

Bouboumaster
Originally posted by The Great Galen
BFR has worked agaisnt supes when exactly...and supes has resisted skyfather level transmutation and somehow only a herald level being will do what hasn't been done before lol. Bullrushing....SS has done that when exactly and besides that supes could probably do the same since he does have the battle tendency to fight that way. SS bullrush has been countered and reacted to by Thanos of all people and supes>Thanos in regards to speed reflex.


Surfer just bfr Nova in a recent comics. Sups have a supower to stop the bfr-ing?

And does these Skyfather possesses the Cosmic Awarness?

When Thanos countered the bull rush of Surfer?

ultimatethor
Originally posted by Sasaraixx
I'm sorry, but why Superman? Why?

No one on team 2 can beat SS but Superman just gets destroyed by him even faster. With cosmic awareness and the ability to drain his solar energy, what is Clark going to do against him? I just don't see a scenario where Clark can win.

I don't know a lot about genis, but he also has cosmic awareness and energy absorption abilities, right? If he can do to Clark what Surfer can do, then Clark is pretty useless in this fight.

Diana doesn't fair much better. I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt that her bracers and shield effect would work against the 2 but without a whole bunch of other gear and prep, that's all she has.

J'onn is at least more versatile. Maybe pair him up with Hal and Orion?

These are just two opponents who don't match up well for Clark and Diana. It's not a comment on their standing in the DCU.

Again, it's just my opinion.

Its true that supes doesnt match up well against surfer at all ( and really probably doesnt match up well against genis either). Really i only put diana and MM cuz they were the ones that came to my mind as the two next powerful league members after supes. Adding a gl to the fight might make it more even i suppose.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Surfer just bfr Nova in a recent comics. Sups have a supower to stop the bfr-ing?

And does these Skyfather possesses the Cosmic Awarness?

When Thanos countered the bull rush of Surfer?

So a skyfather needs cosmic awarness to be impressive, supes resisted transmutation so how will BFR even be viable...that would like saying Thor could BRF SS. Most GL's have a form of cosmic awarness so...I dunno does that mean average GL>Supes now according to that line of reasoning.

Raoul
Originally posted by Sasaraixx
I'm sorry, but why Superman? Why?

cosmic awareness, imo, is one of the most overstated powers on this forum.

it's not some magic light switch that goes off in norrin's head saying 'ooh, kryptonite and red sun'

red sun is all but useless anyways, unless there's actually no sun around to power him, as he regenerates as fast as the power can be pushed out of him...

can norrin scan him and figure out his weaknesses? of course he can. that's why i said bring in someone different...

the only thing clark doesn't bring to a fight that j'onn brings is what, telepathy?

diana doesn't bring much bar the lasso.

imo, the only advantage those two have over clark is their lack of a kryptonite/red sun weakness.

and he's superman, he's stronger, faster, and, well, he's superman. having him on your team increases your chances by at least a factor of... let's say five.

surfer wouldnt be the first person to try and use his exploitable weaknesses against him. it's not going to be easy by any means, imo.

Bouboumaster
Originally posted by The Great Galen
So a skyfather needs cosmic awarness to be impressive, supes resisted transmutation so how will BFR even be viable...that would like saying Thor could BRF SS. Most GL's have a form of cosmic awarness so...I dunno does that mean average GL>Supes now according to that line of reasoning.

I didn't say that it takes to Skyfathers Cosmic Awarness in order to be impressive. But against Sups, it's more efficiently, because of the automatic knowledge of his weakness.

And probably that Thor can bfr Surfer, but Surfer can teleport trew time and space, so...

ultimatethor
eer so resisting transmutation means u cannot be Bfred? My god

Anti-Monitor
Originally posted by ultimatethor
eer so resisting transmutation means u cannot be Bfred? My god

Yup...theres no way to BFR Supes.

Bouboumaster
Originally posted by ultimatethor
eer so resisting transmutation means u cannot be Bfred? My god

You didn't know about THAT power?!

It's the third coolest power ever, just behind Super Weaving and T-VO! eek! The Super-Anti-BFR-ing!

The Great Galen
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
You didn't know about THAT power?!

It's the third coolest power ever, just behind Super Weaving and T-VO! eek! The Super-Anti-BFR-ing!

Or it isn't like supes simply can't fly back since he is a FTL character, althought you're right if supes uses T-VO there isn't anything SS could do...why didnt I think of that right mate. Anything else....aside from the BFR insanity or and "weakness exploitation"LMAO.

Anti-Monitor
Even Galactus couldnt BFR Supes.

Raoul
really mature guys... really...

Bouboumaster
Originally posted by Anti-Monitor
Even Galactus couldnt BFR Supes.


Yep. Even Eternity, Death, Spectre or the Beyounder.

Behold the power of Superman.

ultimatethor
Originally posted by Anti-Monitor
Even Galactus couldnt BFR Supes.

lmao. i guess of supes is BFred to some unknown place and time period or dimension, he will simply just fly back.



Edit: But seriously how can any serious discussion take place when someone thinks that BFR and transmutation are the same thing?

Anti-Monitor
Originally posted by ultimatethor
lmao. i guess of supes is BFred to some unknown place and time period or dimension, he will simply just fly back.

Yup since hes FTL....

Supes is like a cockroach, it doesnt matter what anyone does to him, he just keeps coming back.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by ultimatethor
lmao. i guess of supes is BFred to some unknown place and time period or dimension, he will simply just fly back.



Edit: But seriously how can any serious discussion take place when someone thinks that BFR and transmutation are the same thing?

Well you are guys making basless assertions, I could easily go with the T-VO excuse in every debate but I actually try debating what's likly and consistent. So if I say supes could outtrace SS and blitz KO him there is some merit to it since he has the speed and feats to support it....SS BRFing somone on supes level is a tremendous leap in judgment and spoken in complete ignorance of supes powers.

Sasaraixx
Originally posted by Raoul


and he's superman, he's stronger, faster, and, well, he's superman. having him on your team increases your chances by at least a factor of... let's say five.

Yes but after Surfer has drained Clark how much stronger and more durable will he be and how long will it take him to recover? (That was an actual question, not a rhetorical one).

And Surfer isn't exactly slow is he? He'll be fast enough to do what he needs to do and the longer the fight goes the more time he'll have to detect the weaknesses (plural).

Clark's strength, combat speed and MA skills only come into play if he survives the ways Surfer will inevitably try to depower him. Hell Diana is just as good in that department and it wouldn't do her any good in taking him down.

The whole cosmic awareness thing may be a load of crap, but if I'm to believe that with enough time Batman can take down just about anyone in a forum fight, then I'll give the same deference to CA.

J'onn at least brings telepathy and his phasing ability. And both he and Diana don't have easily exploitable weakness. I also think she has better defensive capabilities in this particular fight (assuming she went on the defense from the start, which I doubt she would). Like I said though, I'd take her out of this fight too. This just will always be a bad match-up for Supes imo. It's just harder for me to believe that Clark KO's him before Norrin goes all kinds of cosmic on him.

To each his own of course.

ultimatethor
My god, What in the world are u talking about Galen? I never made any claim that surfer would BFR supes as its not like he would need to do that in order to beat him anyways. And in case u didnt read the OP CIS is off.
That wasnt the point anyways, I simply found it shocking just as anyone would that u dont even know the difference between transmutaion and BFR!. lulz ignorance of supes powers? looool.

Raoul
Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Yes but after Surfer has drained Clark how much stronger and more durable will he be and how long will it take him to recover? (That was an actual question, not a rhetorical one).

And Surfer isn't exactly slow is he? He'll be fast enough to do what he needs to do and the longer the fight goes the more time he'll have to detect the weaknesses (plural).

Clark's strength, combat speed and MA skills only come into play if he survives the ways Surfer will inevitably try to depower him. Hell Diana is just as good in that department and it wouldn't do her any good in taking him down.

The whole cosmic awareness thing may be a load of crap, but if I'm to believe that with enough time Batman can take down just about anyone in a forum fight, then I'll give the same deference to CA.

J'onn at least brings telepathy and his phasing ability. And both he and Diana don't have easily exploitable weakness. I also think she has better defensive capabilities in this particular fight (assuming she went on the defense from the start, which I doubt she would). Like I said though, I'd take her out of this fight too. This just will always be a bad match-up for Supes imo. It's just harder for me to believe that Clark KO's him before Norrin goes all kinds of cosmic on him.

To each his own of course.

but that's the thing. AFTER he drains clark. that in itself isn't going to be quick. superman fights people all the time that try to drain his powers. lex, metallo, parasite. these are all people that either know his weaknesses, or can drain his powers.

i'm not saying surfer can't do it, of course he can. i'm just saying i don't think it's going to be easy at all.

Anti-Monitor
Originally posted by Raoul
but that's the thing. AFTER he drains clark. that in itself isn't going to be quick. superman fights people all the time that try to drain his powers. lex, metallo, parasite. these are all people that either know his weaknesses, or can drain his powers.

i'm not saying surfer can do it, of course he can. i'm just saying i don't think it's going to be easy at all.


None of those people are even close to the power of Thanos, Genis or Silver Surfer.

Raoul
Originally posted by Anti-Monitor
None of those people are even close to the power of Thanos, Genis or Silver Surfer.

they're powerful enough to fight kryptonians.

Anti-Monitor
Originally posted by Raoul
they're powerful enough to fight kryptonians.

And? the average kryptonian is not on Supes level.

ultimatethor
Originally posted by Raoul
they're powerful enough to fight kryptonians.

Zenn lavians >>>> Kryptonians stick out tongue

janus77
Surfer could easily bfr the lot of them to another dimension or trap them in the microverse. nothing they can do to combat that.

Raoul
Originally posted by Anti-Monitor
And? the average kryptonian is not on Supes level.

so why was non smashing his face in then?

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Zenn lavians >>>> Kryptonians stick out tongue

laughing out loud

The Great Galen
Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Yes but after Surfer has drained Clark how much stronger and more durable will he be and how long will it take him to recover? (That was an actual question, not a rhetorical one).

And Surfer isn't exactly slow is he? He'll be fast enough to do what he needs to do and the longer the fight goes the more time he'll have to detect the weaknesses (plural).

Clark's strength, combat speed and MA skills only come into play if he survives the ways Surfer will inevitably try to depower him. Hell Diana is just as good in that department and it wouldn't do her any good in taking him down.

The whole cosmic awareness thing may be a load of crap, but if I'm to believe that with enough time Batman can take down just about anyone in a forum fight, then I'll give the same deference to CA.

J'onn at least brings telepathy and his phasing ability. And both he and Diana don't have easily exploitable weakness. I also think she has better defensive capabilities in this particular fight (assuming she went on the defense from the start, which I doubt she would). Like I said though, I'd take her out of this fight too. This just will always be a bad match-up for Supes imo. It's just harder for me to believe that Clark KO's him before Norrin goes all kinds of cosmic on him.

To each his own of course.

SS doesn't have comparable combat speed though, infact most of his more impressive combat related speed showins are not agaisn't actual opponents. In supse situation, he can move faster then a nano-second and can ultalize speed not just for travel but combat as well. I'm not saying he goes completly unaffected by k-nite/red-energy draining but as I stated before he has fought through these exploits to gain victory in the past. While depowered, he whistood e explosion that was several times more potent then supernova's and oddly enough a lot his speed related combat showgins occured during momments when he is depowered and supposly not 100%.

At full power and full capctiy, I simply fail to see how it is a easy victory for SS considering supes superior stats. As I said before, versatility is great but supes has fought past versatile opponents before that easily comparable if not even more powerful then SS. Recreating k-nite/red solar energy is a process, which agaisnt someone who can fight so fast that they can appear at 4 different points of the world in the time it takes to finish a setence is more risky then anything else. Although if CIS of off then Supes would just T-VO him for the cheap win lol

Sasaraixx
Originally posted by Raoul
but that's the thing. AFTER he drains clark. that in itself isn't going to be quick. superman fights people all the time that try to drain his powers. lex, metallo, parasite. these are all people that either know his weaknesses, or can drain his powers.

i'm not saying surfer can't do it, of course he can. i'm just saying i don't think it's going to be easy at all.

That was fast wink

I get your point. For me it's the fact that Surfer can drain his powers AND exploit his other weaknesses, all the while wielding the power cosmic and having speed and durability of his own that are impressive. Whether it's easy or not the result is the same for me. *shrug*

Maybe Diana can get Apollo to cast some spell on him big grin

Raoul
Originally posted by Sasaraixx
That was fast wink

I get your point. For me it's the fact that Surfer can drain his powers AND exploit his other weaknesses, all the while wielding the power cosmic and having speed and durability of his own that are impressive. Whether it's easy or not the result is the same for me. *shrug*

Maybe Diana can get Apollo to cast some spell on him big grin

laughing out loud, maybe...

janus77
Surfer speedblitzed Nova, who himself is an FTL character.

Surfer's speed of thought and action far surpasses Superman's, imo.

Mindset
Originally posted by carver9
Who are you talking about, surfer or genis. Genis

ultimatethor
Originally posted by Sasaraixx


Maybe Diana can get Apollo to cast some spell on him big grin

Pfft. surfer doesnt have a weakness to magic unlike supermanshifty

Anti-Monitor
Originally posted by Raoul
so why was non smashing his face in then?



Because he has Super Strength, I never said they didnt.

So I guess Power Girl is on the same level as Superman than?

Raoul
Originally posted by ultimatethor
Pfft. surfer doesnt have a weakness to magic unlike supermanshifty

no expression
Originally posted by Anti-Monitor
Because he has Super Strength, I never said they didnt.

So I guess Power Girl is on the same level as Superman than?

power girl isn't the same thing. at all.

superman is to non what i am to brock lesnar.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by janus77
Surfer speedblitzed Nova, who himself is an FTL character.

Surfer's speed of thought and action far surpasses Superman's, imo.

SS doesn't have the combat related speed showings to prove that, were not judging by powersets but by the feats performed. Supes speed caught amazo off guard as well, and amazo has the combined attributes of the JLA.

janus77
Originally posted by The Great Galen
SS doesn't have the combat related speed showings to prove that, were not judging by powersets but by the feats performed. Supes speed caught amazo off guard as well, and amazo has the combined attributes of the JLA.
he does and he has.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by ultimatethor
Pfft. surfer doesnt have a weakness to magic unlike supermanshifty

Yet he was more then happy to get oneshotted by odin while Supes still was able to fight after being blasted by gog.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by janus77
he does and he has.

No he doesn't, there is no combat speed feat SS has that tops Supes and even goober conceded that point. At best, SS can intiate blast at high speeds and has fast mobolity...although its rarly ultalized agaisnt opponents but more for large groups of ships and what not.

janus77
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Yet he was more then happy to get oneshotted by odin while Supes still was able to fight after being blasted by gog.
and Surfer's survived being smashed up by T&A, being cut and blasted to pieces by UniLord (a juiced up Watcher) ...


Superman really is not up to Surfer's tier. no amount of lowballing is going to change that.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by Sasaraixx
That was fast wink

I get your point. For me it's the fact that Surfer can drain his powers AND exploit his other weaknesses, all the while wielding the power cosmic and having speed and durability of his own that are impressive. Whether it's easy or not the result is the same for me. *shrug*

Maybe Diana can get Apollo to cast some spell on him big grin

All those things are easily countered, on the other hand I see no counter for T-VO.

janus77
Originally posted by The Great Galen
No he doesn't, there is no combat speed feat SS has that tops Supes and even goober conceded that point. At best, SS can intiate blast at high speeds and has fast mobolity...although its rarly ultalized agaisnt opponents but more for large groups of ships and what not.
he has, on-panel, disarmed a whole armada in one-panel, attacked the entire earth and BLITZED Nova so fast that Nova couldn't even see him!

Mindset
Originally posted by janus77
and Surfer's survived being smashed up by T&A, being cut and blasted to pieces by UniLord (a juiced up Watcher) ...


Superman really is not up to Surfer's tier. no amount of lowballing is going to change that. I'd say the they're the same tier, but SS beats him.

Anti-Monitor
Originally posted by Raoul
no expression


power girl isn't the same thing. at all.

superman is to non what i am to brock lesnar.

She is Kryptonian.

Non, and? hes not a average Kryptonian.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by janus77
and Surfer's survived being smashed up by T&A, being cut and blasted to pieces by UniLord (a juiced up Watcher) ...


Superman really is not up to Surfer's tier. no amount of lowballing is going to change that.

How do you figure....Supes took a point blank explosion from sun eater while depowered, a blast from gog's staff(remember supes appearntly has a weakness to magic), transmutation from a skyfather level character and even the sourced powered IM.

Raoul
Originally posted by Anti-Monitor
She is Kryptonian.

Non, and? hes not a average Kryptonian.

she's an earth 2 kryptonian that is at best supergirl level.

did you read the last son arc in action? a kryptonian army takes over earth. who stops them? green lanterns? wonder woman? mm? the jla?

no. superman, lex, metallo and parasite, are the frontline soldiers in that battle until they free the other heroes.

janus77
Originally posted by Mindset
I'd say the they're the same tier, but SS beats him.
I don't see what differentiates Superman from say ... Nova.

he hasn't got any versatility, he has strength yes but that's hardly going to factor against Herald levellers, he isn't as fast as a standard trans-light Herald etc etc...

dunno, I see it as being extremely charitable, to bump Superman upto Surfer's tier.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by janus77
he has, on-panel, disarmed a whole armada in one-panel, attacked the entire earth and BLITZED Nova so fast that Nova couldn't even see him!

Right, supes blitz Apok's army with DS in it lol. He has even blitz a city full of villans and more impressivly has displayed the ability to fight at superspeed.

Mindset
Originally posted by Raoul
she's an earth 2 kryptonian that is at best supergirl level.

did you read the last son arc in action? a kryptonian army takes over earth. who stops them? green lanterns? wonder woman? mm? the jla?

no. superman, lex, metallo and parasite, are the frontline soldiers in that battle until they free the other heroes. Don't forget Chris!@

Anti-Monitor
Originally posted by Raoul
she's an earth 2 kryptonian that is at best supergirl level.

did you read the last son arc in action? a kryptonian army takes over earth. who stops them? green lanterns? wonder woman? mm? the jla?

no. superman, lex, metallo and parasite, are the frontline soldiers in that battle until they free the other heroes.

And your point? They are still less powerful than Silver Surfer and Genis vell.

Raoul
Originally posted by janus77
I don't see what differentiates Superman from say ... Nova.

he hasn't got any versatility, he has strength yes but that's hardly going to factor against Herald levellers, he isn't as fast as a standard trans-light Herald etc etc...

dunno, I see it as being extremely charitable, to bump Superman upto Surfer's tier.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Right, supes blitz Apok's army with DS in it lol. He has even blitz a city full of villans and more impressivly has displayed the ability to fight at superspeed.

you two need to get a room, or elope or something...

Originally posted by Mindset
Don't forget Chris!@

how could i forget?

Originally posted by Anti-Monitor
And your point? They are still less powerful than Thanos, Silver Surfer and Genis vell.

you said parasite, lex and metallo weren't powerful enough, when they are.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by janus77
I don't see what differentiates Superman from say ... Nova.

he hasn't got any versatility, he has strength yes but that's hardly going to factor against Herald levellers, he isn't as fast as a standard trans-light Herald etc etc...

dunno, I see it as being extremely charitable, to bump Superman upto Surfer's tier.

Supes has a better track record agaisnt skyfathers then Thanos does, and we all know what Thanos does to SS. By ur line of reasoning we are demeaning supes by even considering him herald level...if anything he is more skyfather in power then thanos or ss lol. Oh and I suppose flying to the source wall which is located at the far edge of DCU in only 3 panels a good measure of speed...and hell in addition to supes superior stats I suppose his HV/T-VO are just useless additives that shoudlnt be considered...

Anti-Monitor
Originally posted by Raoul



you said parasite, lex and metallo weren't powerful enough, when they are.

They are not on the same power level as Silver surfer and Genis vell.

Raoul
Originally posted by Anti-Monitor
They are not on the same power level as Silver surfer and Genis vell.

parasite's powers were enough to drain the entire jla. that includes wonder woman, hal, canary, black lightning AND superman.

parasite is a top tier energy absorber.

metallo is custom built to fight kryptonians. he strolled through them during last son. these weren't average kryptonians. these were phantom zone criminals. the worst of their kind.

if they were powerful enough to subdue the wonder womans and hal jordans of the world, then they weren't exactly weak.

Anti-Monitor
Originally posted by Raoul


if they were powerful enough to subdue the wonder womans and hal jordans of the world, then they weren't exactly weak.

I am not saying they are weak. mad

The Great Galen
But SS is>>>>>DCU is meh

Raoul
Originally posted by Anti-Monitor
I am not saying they are weak. mad

sorry. they'e not weak, they're just not that impressive either, then?

Anti-Monitor
Originally posted by Raoul
sorry. they'e not weak, they're just not that impressive either, then?


They are just not on the same power level as Silver surfer and Genis vell. Yes, Parasite, Lex and Metallo are powerful.

The Great Galen
Seems like no one is.......

Mindset
Originally posted by Raoul
sorry. they'e not weak, they're just not that impressive either, then? Actually no, they weren't impressive, not when fighting Metallo and Parasite, at least.

Also, Metallo wasn't really taking them on, he was using different kryptonite to own them.

Raoul
Originally posted by Anti-Monitor
They are just not on the same power level as Silver surfer and Genis vell. Yes, Parasite, Lex and Metallo are powerful.

parasite would give either of them trouble, imo...

Originally posted by Mindset
Actually no, they weren't impressive, not when fighting Metallo and Parasite, at least.

Also, Metallo wasn't really taking them on, he was using different kryptonite to own them.

thats how he takes people on... blink

and i was talking about metallo, parasite and lex...

Mindset
Originally posted by Raoul




thats how he takes people on... blink

and i was talking about metallo, parasite and lex...

I know that's how he takes people (Kyrptonites) on, I still wouldn't say because someone can exploit a weakness you have he's on your level.

And you think those zoners were impressive, really?

When they were fighting Lex and co. what did they do impressive? Metallo alone was easily owning multiples of them at a time.

Enyalus
Amazo dropped Superman extremely quickly with a red solar energy burst. Twice. And Amazo doesn't have the power output of Genis nor Surfer.

J'onn and Superman are both useless in this fight. And Diana can be BFR'd with little trouble.

Team One gets the win.

Allankles
Originally posted by Mindset
I know that's how he takes people (Kyrptonites) on, I still wouldn't say because someone can exploit a weakness you have he's on your level.

And you think those zoners were impressive, really?

When they were fighting Lex and co. what did they do impressive? Metallo alone was easily owning multiples of them at a time.

Yeah the Zoners were very unimpressive when it came time to fight Metallo, Parasite and Lex - who let's face it aren't on their level.

The same poor showings will probably happen in New Krypton where a couple of Kryptonian soldiers were taken out very easily with gold kryptonite. PIS seems to run rampant when it comes time to face people with kryptonite guns, no super speed, no hv or freeze breath. Meh!

Supes exploitable weaknesses will see him lose to SS more often than not (solar absorption isn't one his weaknesses though). It's funny because those weaknesses were important because of how powerful PC Supes was they don't seem to be as important now in balancing Supes power - since he got toned down - except to give people like Lex a chance at defeating him.

EDIT: Personally I think Supes is more powerful than SS, he seems to be as powerful as his will power will allow a lot of the time, but SS capacity to exploit weaknesses gives him the edge unless Supes can overcome those weaknesses with will power which he does seem to be capable of sometimes.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by Enyalus
Amazo dropped Superman extremely quickly with a red solar energy burst. Twice. And Amazo doesn't have the power output of Genis nor Surfer.

J'onn and Superman are both useless in this fight. And Diana can be BFR'd with little trouble.

Team One gets the win.

Amazo had to exert himself to take supes down with red solar energy...and where are you getting that SS and genis have superior output to amazo lol. Supes still got in and surprised Amazo with his speed, and amazo>SS in regards to reflex.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Allankles
Supes exploitable weaknesses will see him lose to SS more often than not (solar absorption isn't one his weaknesses though). It's funny because those weaknesses were important because of how powerful PC Supes was they don't seem to be as important now in balancing Supes power - since he got toned down - except to give people like Lex a chance at defeating him.

EDIT: Personally I think Supes is more powerful than SS, he seems to be as powerful as his will power will allow a lot of the time, but SS capacity to exploit weaknesses gives him the edge unless Supes can overcome those weaknesses with will power which he does seem to be capable of sometimes.

Photon is in this fight, too, though. And he controls all photonic energy. Probably even capable of doing something exotic like changing the yellow solar energy in his cells to red.

Enyalus
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Amazo had to exert himself to take supes down with red solar energy...

No. He downed him easily and moved on to the others. Then later he does it again. Easily.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
and where are you getting that SS and genis have superior output to amazo lol.

Let's see - SS has power output to casually destroy planets with his blasts as well as create black holes. When that incarnation of Amazo does something even half as impressive, let me know. And Photon's power was stated to be about equal to a trillion suns. His very being is made up of energy taken from the Big Bang and Entropy. And he, very obviously, also has cosmic awareness.

Supes is outclassed. So are J'onn and Diana.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by Allankles
Yeah the Zoners were very unimpressive when it came time to fight Metallo, Parasite and Lex - who let's face it aren't on their level.

The same poor showings will probably happen in New Krypton where a couple of Kryptonian soldiers were taken out very easily with gold kryptonite. PIS seems to run rampant when it comes time to face people with kryptonite guns, no super speed, no hv or freeze breath. Meh!

Supes exploitable weaknesses will see him lose to SS more often than not (solar absorption isn't one his weaknesses though). It's funny because those weaknesses were important because of how powerful PC Supes was they don't seem to be as important now in balancing Supes power - since he got toned down - except to give people like Lex a chance at defeating him.

EDIT: Personally I think Supes is more powerful than SS, he seems to be as powerful as his will power will allow a lot of the time, but SS capacity to exploit weaknesses gives him the edge unless Supes can overcome those weaknesses with will power which he does seem to be capable of sometimes.

That's assuming SS can recreat these weaknesses in the time before supes moves towards him, remember supes does have superior combat speed and superior stats and the plot device T-VO. I personally gave SS a 6/10 agaisnt supes but only due to the exploitations, which even then won't see a clear and easy victory. If CIS as the OP said then I don't see why supes couldn't just T-VO team 1 for the free win.

Enyalus
Originally posted by The Great Galen
That's assuming SS can recreat these weaknesses in the time before supes moves towards him, remember supes does have superior combat speed and superior stats and the plot device T-VO. I personally gave SS a 6/10 agaisnt supes but only due to the exploitations, which even then won't see a clear and easy victory. If CIS as the OP said then I don't see why supes couldn't just T-VO team 1 for the free win.

T-Vo wouldn't work against Genis-Vell. At all.

In fact, I doubt it would work against SS either. Considering he broke free of the Goddess's mind control while she was using the Cosmic Egg.

Raoul
Originally posted by Mindset
I know that's how he takes people (Kyrptonites) on, I still wouldn't say because someone can exploit a weakness you have he's on your level.

And you think those zoners were impressive, really?

When they were fighting Lex and co. what did they do impressive? Metallo alone was easily owning multiples of them at a time.

metallo, sure, you could make that argument, but not for parasite imo...

the zoners were strong enough to subdue the heroes of earth. that's not bad.

Allankles
Originally posted by Enyalus
Photon is in this fight, too, though. And he controls all photonic energy. Probably even capable of doing something exotic like changing the yellow solar energy in his cells to red.

Except of course Supes is said to super metabolize yellow sun energy. This partially explains why he gets so much power. There's another theory that he isn't actually powered by the yellow sun directly but that it merely helps him unlock the entropic power within or that it unlocks some interdimensional force that empowers him.

So I personally don't feels thats a power that will work on Supes in the way you've described not unless he is shooting beams of red sun energy directly at Supes and even then it would depend on their surroundings.

If Supes is doing anything like metabolizing the energy then it would be in some bio energetic form, further there's evidence that his power is a little bit more exotic than simple sun radiation.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by Enyalus


No. He downed him easily and moved on to the others. Then later he does it again. Easily.



Let's see - SS has power output to casually destroy planets with his blasts as well as create black holes. When that incarnation of Amazo does something even half as impressive, let me know. And Photon's power was stated to be about equal to a trillion suns. His very being is made up of energy taken from the Big Bang and Entropy. And he, very obviously, also has cosmic awareness.

Supes is outclassed. So are J'onn and Diana.

Easily....so then ignoring Amazo's own comment about exerting himself isn't relevent lol. Yet SS's blast did not even flinch Thanos who has been injured by attacks that havn't even destroyed a city...colliteral damage is quite a poor indication of power. Judging how they handle agaisnt ubber beings, supes punches actually rocked the sourced powered IM while SS couldn't even mount a effective attack on raging thor who was fighting like a idiot lol. Oh and considering supes has took shots from gog,DS and legitimate skyfathers before....excuse me of I dont think SS or the overatted genis are top shit lol.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Anti-Monitor
They are not on the same power level as Silver surfer and Genis vell. Yep.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by Enyalus
T-Vo wouldn't work against Genis-Vell. At all.

In fact, I doubt it would work against SS either. Considering he broke free of the Goddess's mind control while she was using the Cosmic Egg.

T-VO pulled in a skyfather level character....SS is going even if he doesnt want to.

quanchi112
Originally posted by The Great Galen
T-VO pulled in a skyfather level character....SS is going even if he doesnt want to. Photon can bfr the whole team.

Allankles
Originally posted by The Great Galen
T-VO pulled in a skyfather level character....SS is going even if he doesnt want to.

T-VO is another reason why Supes power source is probably more exotic than simple sun radiation. Since T-VO and other Kryptonian disciplines have to do with cosmic concordance.

Enyalus
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Easily....so then ignoring Amazo's own comment about exerting himself isn't relevent lol.

Amazo didn't even talk when he first took down Supes, so I don't know where you're getting the bullshit you spout. Flash was narrating it, and he also mentions nothing of the sort. Supes is floored all three times in one shot once Amazo uses Red Solar radiation thoughout the two issues.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
T-VO pulled in a skyfather level character....SS is going even if he doesnt want to.

The Goddess was using the Cosmic Egg, which is just under the Infinity Gauntlet in power and is multiversal. And he broke free of its control. So yeah, that feat >>> Skyfather.

Raoul
Originally posted by Enyalus
Amazo didn't even talk when he first took down Supes, so I don't know where you're getting the bullshit you spout. Flash was narrating it, and he also mentions nothing of the sort. Supes is floored all three times in one shot once Amazo uses Red Solar radiation thoughout the two issues.

mcduffie's jla = fail. uhuh

Allankles
Originally posted by Enyalus



The Goddess was using the Cosmic Egg, which is just under the Infinity Gauntlet in power and is multiversal. And he broke free of its control. So yeah, that feat >>> Skyfather.

Ummm! T-Vo is not mind control.

It pulls you and your opponent into a higher state of consciousness/reality to do battle. Supes has perfected the discipline allowing him to warp/affect reality at will in this plane of consciousness.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by Enyalus
Amazo didn't even talk when he first took down Supes, so I don't know where you're getting the bullshit you spout. Flash was narrating it, and he also mentions nothing of the sort. Supes is floored all three times in one shot once Amazo uses Red Solar radiation thoughout the two issues.



The Goddess was using the Cosmic Egg, which is just under the Infinity Gauntlet in power and is multiversal. And he broke free of its control. So yeah, that feat >>> Skyfather.

lol, obviosuly re-read the issue because it explains Amazo has to exert himself to put him down with solar energy...and no srry he is getting dragged to T-VO no matter what, unless u wanna bring in a featless wonder again. SS only chance is red solar energy,k-nite bolts and thats assuming he can even creat them let alone in a timly manner agaisnt supes who has vastly superior combat speed....and of course supes can also reconstitute his power from the stars around him so I think the tactic is overblown personally.

Mindset
Originally posted by Allankles
Ummm! T-Vo is not mind control.

It pulls you and your opponent into a higher state of consciousness/reality to do battle. Supes has perfected the discipline allowing him to warp/affect reality at will in this plane of consciousness. So is it like the Astral Plane?

The Great Galen
Originally posted by Allankles
Ummm! T-Vo is not mind control.

It pulls you and your opponent into a higher state of consciousness/reality to do battle. Supes has perfected the discipline allowing him to warp/affect reality at will in this plane of consciousness.

Popular misconception, I dont know where that idea came from that it was mind control, then again he is also convinced amazo did not exert himself with red solar enery blast to bring down supes.

Mindset
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Popular misconception, I dont know where that idea came from that it was mind control, then again he is also convinced amazo did not exert himself with red solar enery blast to bring down supes. Would you like to explain T-vo?

Allankles
Originally posted by Mindset
So is it like the Astral Plane?

You could describe it like that, however it's not like Marvel's Astral plane this arena is entirely a construct of the T-vo practitioners mind.

Anti-Monitor
Originally posted by Enyalus
Amazo didn't even talk when he first took down Supes, so I don't know where you're getting the bullshit you spout. Flash was narrating it, and he also mentions nothing of the sort. Supes is floored all three times in one shot once Amazo uses Red Solar radiation thoughout the two issues.


http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/2668/amazo2ot3.jpg

Mindset
Originally posted by Allankles
You could describe it like that, however it's not like Marvel's Astral plane this arena is entirely a construct of the T-vo practitioners mind. So then like Supes could use t-vo on SS, SS could pull Supes into the astral plane for a win?

Enyalus
Originally posted by Raoul
mcduffie's jla = fail. uhuh

Supes was also dropped by Ruin with a red solar gun for crying out loud. Both SS and Genis output an expontentially greater amount of energy.

Also, Raoul, will you please make Galen either prove that Amazo exerted himself taking down Supes or concede the point? I have the issues with me, but I am not going to do the work when it is his point.

Originally posted by Allankles
Ummm! T-Vo is not mind control.

It pulls you and your opponent into a higher state of consciousness/reality to do battle. Supes has perfected the discipline allowing him to warp/affect reality at will in this plane of consciousness.

I know that. The key word being 'pulls you in.' SS should be able to resist it. He's also resisted reality warping from the Magus (IIRC), not to mention he's beaten Thanos on a different plane of reality where they were both powerless (courtesy of Dr. Strange.) Him using T-Vo on SS does not institute an auto-win. And against Genis he won't be able to do so at all.

Anti-Monitor
Originally posted by Enyalus
Supes was also dropped by Ruin with a red solar gun for crying out loud. Both SS and Genis output an expontentially greater amount of energy.

Also, Raoul, will you please make Galen either prove that Amazo exerted himself taking down Supes or concede the point? I have the issues with me, but I am not going to do the work when it is his point.



Here...

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/2668/amazo2ot3.jpg

And a few pages later Clark is very weak and slow getting up. Team mates telling him he shouldnt be on his feet yet.

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/5208/amazo8jv0.jpg

Allankles
Originally posted by Enyalus
I know that. The key word being 'pulls you in.' SS should be able to resist it. He's also resisted reality warping from the Magus (IIRC), not to mention he's beaten Thanos on a different plane of reality where they were both powerless (courtesy of Dr. Strange.) Him using T-Vo on SS does not institute an auto-win. And against Genis he won't be able to do so at all.

They fight in higher plane of cosciousness it has nothing to do with power and it's not his soul that is pulled out or anything in only requires that Supes link (not invade) with his mind and they find themselves in the plane of reality the T-Vo practitioner's mind is in.

In one story the activationof these disciplines involved Supes merging with the heartbeat of the cosmos matching cosmic concordance. So therE's nothing SS can do about that. Problem will be that Supes can alter reality as he sees fit in this arena, SS is going to lose 10/10 in that scenario.

And why can't genis vell be pulled into this arena when an abstract like Dominus was pulled?

The Great Galen
Originally posted by Enyalus
Supes was also dropped by Ruin with a red solar gun for crying out loud. Both SS and Genis output an expontentially greater amount of energy.

Also, Raoul, will you please make Galen either prove that Amazo exerted himself taking down Supes or concede the point? I have the issues with me, but I am not going to do the work when it is his point.



I know that. The key word being 'pulls you in.' SS should be able to resist it. He's also resisted reality warping from the Magus (IIRC), not to mention he's beaten Thanos on a different plane of reality where they were both powerless (courtesy of Dr. Strange.) Him using T-Vo on SS does not institute an auto-win. And against Genis he won't be able to do so at all.

T-VO defeated a skyfather level characer...SS is not anywhere near appraching that power and T-VO is not the same astral plane as marvels nor is it mind crontrol. Red solar energy gun taking him down....yet we can ignore his fight with zod under a red sun that was tearing up a planet lol.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by Allankles
They fight in higher plane of cosciousness it has nothing to do with power and it's not his soul that is pulled out or anything in only requires that Supes link (not invade) with his mind and they find themselves in the plane of reality the T-Vo practitioner's mind is in.

In one story the activationof these disciplines involved Supes merging with the heartbeat of the cosmos matching cosmic concordance. So therE's nothing SS can do about that. Problem will be that Supes can alter reality as he sees fit in this arena, SS is going to lose 10/10 in that scenario.

And why can't genis vell be pulled into this arena when an abstract like Dominus was pulled?

Cause genis can appeartly beat kindom gog right eny LMAO.

Mindset
Originally posted by The Great Galen
T-VO defeated a skyfather level characer...SS is not anywhere near appraching that power and T-VO is not the same astral plane as marvels nor is it mind crontrol. Red solar energy gun taking him down....yet we can ignore his fight with zod under a red sun that was tearing up a planet lol. Tell us what t-vo is then.

Raoul
Originally posted by Enyalus
Supes was also dropped by Ruin with a red solar gun for crying out loud. Both SS and Genis output an expontentially greater amount of energy.

Also, Raoul, will you please make Galen either prove that Amazo exerted himself taking down Supes or concede the point? I have the issues with me, but I am not going to do the work when it is his point.

and what else happened with ruin? superman was indoors. unless the surfer can cut off his access to the sun, red sun isn't doing shit.

also, it was professor hamilton. yet another person with intimate knowledge of superman.

also, if i make galen prove amazo exerted himself (though i don't remember him doing so), that means i'll have to tell everyone else to show examples of photon bfr'ing someone of superman's caliber...

it's either both, or none at all... i don't agree with most of what galen says (tbh), but fair is fair.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Allankles
They fight in higher plane of cosciousness it has nothing to do with power and it's not his soul that is pulled out or anything in only requires that Supes link (not invade) with his mind and they find themselves in the plane of reality the T-Vo practitioner's mind is in.

And again I ask, how's he going to make this link with SS's mind. Moondragon with the Mind Gem was overtaken by the Cosmic Egg's influence. SS broke free of it. He's also resisted reality warping from the IG when Magus wielded it.

And as far as the higher plane of consciousness goes, he's fought on the astral plane before and again on a plane that Dr. Strange sent he and Thanos to to resolve their differences. He's not inept.

Originally posted by Allankles
And why can't genis vell be pulled into this arena when an abstract like Dominus was pulled?

Because Genis has fought off the Scarlet Witch's reality warp in House of M. He also exists in every time period and every universe as Photon. And his cosmic awareness allows him to know everything going on in all the omniverse (omniversal level telepath.)

So yes, he'd be able to break free of it.




Also, yeah, Genis would beat Kingdom Gog. But that's not on topic and you're trolling yet again, Galen.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by Raoul
and what else happened with ruin? superman was indoors. unless the surfer can cut off his access to the sun, red sun isn't doing shit.

also, it was professor hamilton. yet another person with intimate knowledge of superman.

also, if i make galen prove amazo exerted himself (though i don't remember him doing so), that means i'll have to tell everyone else to show examples of photon bfr'ing someone of superman's caliber...

it's either both, or none at all... i don't agree with most of what galen says (tbh), but fair is fair.

Exactly what am I saying that u dont agree with, the scans of what I was mentioning were already provided...yet all this fabled"SS can do this and that"nonsense has yet to be certified.

Anti-Monitor
Originally posted by Anti-Monitor
Here...

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/2668/amazo2ot3.jpg

And a few pages later Clark is very weak and slow getting up. Team mates telling him he shouldnt be on his feet yet.

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/5208/amazo8jv0.jpg

Red Sun aint doing shit....what is this? So, some people are just going to ignore these feats against Superman? Because in someones opinion this JLA is crap.

WTF!!

Enyalus
Originally posted by Raoul
and what else happened with ruin? superman was indoors. unless the surfer can cut off his access to the sun, red sun isn't doing shit.

The Ruin arc was what, 24 issues? He was outdoors for some of those. Even on a roof at one point.

Originally posted by Raoul
also, it was professor hamilton. yet another person with intimate knowledge of superman.

Doesn't matter, red solar energy is red solar energy.

Originally posted by Raoul
also, if i make galen prove amazo exerted himself (though i don't remember him doing so), that means i'll have to tell everyone else to show examples of photon bfr'ing someone of superman's caliber...

Genis did so to Sentry and Captain America simultaneously in a New Thunderbolts issue.

Furthermore, Galen can't prove it. He's wrong. That's the problem - he's allowed to make all kinds of false accusations and get away with it.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by Enyalus


And again I ask, how's he going to make this link with SS's mind. Moondragon with the Mind Gem was overtaken by the Cosmic Egg's influence. SS broke free of it. He's also resisted reality warping from the IG when Magus wielded it.

And as far as the higher plane of consciousness goes, he's fought on the astral plane before and again on a plane that Dr. Strange sent he and Thanos to to resolve their differences. He's not inept.



Because Genis has fought off the Scarlet Witch's reality warp in House of M. He also exists in every time period and every universe as Photon. And his cosmic awareness allows him to know everything going on in all the omniverse (omniversal level telepath.)

So yes, he'd be able to break free of it.




Also, yeah, Genis would beat Kingdom Gog. But that's not on topic and you're trolling yet again, Galen.

So you're using a feat from a alternate universe....and even thought u were completly owned and shut down with ur argument about genis u still continue. He is nowhere near as powerful as u r suggesting...he falls to T-VO the same as SS. It isnt mind control or astrol projection, him breaking free of it doesn't even make sense smokin'

Anti-Monitor
Originally posted by Mindset
Tell us what t-vo is then.

Enyalus
Originally posted by The Great Galen
So you're using a feat from a alternate universe....and even thought u were completly owned and shut down with ur argument about genis u still continue. He is nowhere near as powerful as u r suggesting...he falls to T-VO the same as SS. It isnt mind control or astrol projection, him breaking free of it doesn't even make sense smokin'

No. Photon is Photon is Photon. He exists in all time periods in all universes. He knew Wanda's universe was not correct and was able to see his 616 self (Photon.) They were the same. And anyone who can break free of Wanda's reality warp is not falling victim to Superman's. To suggest so is absolutely ridiculous.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by Enyalus


The Ruin arc was what, 24 issues? He was outdoors for some of those. Even on a roof at one point.



Doesn't matter, red solar energy is red solar energy.



Genis did so to Sentry and Captain America simultaneously in a New Thunderbolts issue.

Furthermore, Galen can't prove it. He's wrong. That's the problem - he's allowed to make all kinds of false accusations and get away with it.

How am I wrong, the scan says right there supes was not going down easy and after repeated explanations on the nature behind supes T-VO you still continue debating with"mental resistence"feats from SS that are not even relevent. You think gog loses to genis after being explained in great detail why genis isn't this"all powerful"being and u continue....once ur point is disproven and u can't provide counter material u should concede and cut down the trolling thanks.

Mindset
Galen you don't actually know what t-vo is, do you?

Anti-Monitor
Originally posted by Mindset
Galen you don't actually know what t-vo is, do you?

He is ignoring your question, as its seems. laughing

The Great Galen
What are you going on about now, try staying on topic...if u wanna spam then just pm me or something but keep it out of the thread thanks.

Enyalus
Originally posted by The Great Galen
How am I wrong, the scan says right there supes was not going down easy

Flash says it. Big deal. The artwork shows him dropping in one hit. it also never mentions Amazo exerting himself. So you're wrong.

The rest of your post is, too.

Anti-Monitor
What is on panel is this...

He did go down in one hit, regardless what the context says. The Picture says it all.

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/2668/amazo2ot3.jpg

The Great Galen
Originally posted by Enyalus
Flash says it. Big deal. The artwork shows him dropping in one hit. it also never mentions Amazo exerting himself. So you're wrong.

The rest of your post is, too.

The point is the evidence was presented, and since u want to ignore it then thats you're own problem since I don't debate what's stated on-panel.

Raoul
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Exactly what am I saying that u dont agree with

where do i start?

repost the precise scans you're talking about, please, and illustrate where it says he's straining...

Originally posted by Enyalus
The Ruin arc was what, 24 issues? He was outdoors for some of those. Even on a roof at one point.

and what did superman say? that the red sun energy was being forced out of his body as fast as it was being processed.

there's also the fact that now, red sun energy doesn't drain superman, it just shuts off his ability to process energy. he still has the energy, just no access to it.

surfer would have to consistently keep the sun's rays from touching superman while ploughing in to him with red sun energy.



see above. stick out tongue



SENTRY? HONESTLY? stick out tongue

you have the scan?



he's not. i just asked him...

Enyalus
Originally posted by The Great Galen
The point is the evidence was presented, and since u want to ignore it then thats you're own problem since I don't debate what's stated on-panel.

He gets dropped in one hit. And two other times later on he also gets dropped in one shot. Against Ruin's gun he also gets dropped.

Both of those are nowhere near as powerful as the blasts SS and Photon can muster. And Amazo did not exert himself, so what you said was wrong. You're wrong. Deal with it and move on.

Anti-Monitor
Amazo just copys powers from the JLA. The only way he will become as powerful as SS or Photon is to copy their powers. Thus if he doesnt hes not as powerful as them.

Allankles
Originally posted by Enyalus


And again I ask, how's he going to make this link with SS's mind. Moondragon with the Mind Gem was overtaken by the Cosmic Egg's influence. SS broke free of it. He's also resisted reality warping from the IG when Magus wielded it.

And as far as the higher plane of consciousness goes, he's fought on the astral plane before and again on a plane that Dr. Strange sent he and Thanos to to resolve their differences. He's not inept.

How can he not link with SS mind? He becomes one with univeral harmony when he uses T-vo and related disciplines. He isn't trying to invade SS mind just touch it. So I don't see what SS is going to do about that. You think he invaded Dominus mind? He couldn't even if he wanted yet he was dragged in all the same.

As far as SSS fighting on a higher plane, he's never fought like this. Supes controls reality in that plane. SS will lose. I didn't say he was inept but he'll lose Supes would have all the advantages.



Originally posted by Enyalus
Because Genis has fought off the Scarlet Witch's reality warp in House of M. He also exists in every time period and every universe as Photon. And his cosmic awareness allows him to know everything going on in all the omniverse (omniversal level telepath.)

So yes, he'd be able to break free of it.

And Dominus is mutliversal entity as well like the new gods and few other beings: Myx et al he is a singular being in the DCU multiverse.

And T-Vo is not direct reality manip on the physical plane, so it doesn't matter if you can resist reality manip (Supes can do that too). Dominus can reality manip on the physical plane and he couldn't prevent getting dragged in the T-Vo arena.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Raoul
there's also the fact that now, red sun energy doesn't drain superman, it just shuts off his ability to process energy. he still has the energy, just no access to it.

See JLA 23 and 24 for my response to that. Sept and Oct 08 is recent enough.

Originally posted by Raoul
SENTRY? HONESTLY? stick out tongue

you have the scan?

New Thunderbolts 14. Photon takes Sentry and CA to the Microverse. Then he BFRs Sentry into a toilet in Central Station or something (off panel.)

Anti-Monitor
Originally posted by Enyalus


See JLA 23 and 24 for my response to that. Sept and Oct 08 is recent enough.



http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=445194&pagenumber=3

Heres the fight.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Allankles
And Dominus is mutliversal entity as well like the new gods and few other beings: Myx et al he is a singular being in the DCU multiverse.


...During the '96 arc he was said to be universal-level. I haven't read the issues with him in it recently.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by Raoul
where do i start?

repost the precise scans you're talking about, please, and illustrate where it says he's straining...



and what did superman say? that the red sun energy was being forced out of his body as fast as it was being processed.

there's also the fact that now, red sun energy doesn't drain superman, it just shuts off his ability to process energy. he still has the energy, just no access to it.

surfer would have to consistently keep the sun's rays from touching superman while ploughing in to him with red sun energy.



see above. stick out tongue



SENTRY? HONESTLY? stick out tongue

you have the scan?



he's not. i just asked him...
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/2668/amazo2ot3.jpg Since flash says it is not big deal, just like how thanos says this so its no big deal http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Silversurfercreatesblackhole.jpg

Raoul
Originally posted by Enyalus
See JLA 23 and 24 for my response to that. Sept and Oct 08 is recent enough.

mcduffie's jla, which consistently lowballs superman. that's using low feats and claiming they're the standard, when they aren't.

he has too many contradictory feats, even from when he wasn't as powerful as he is now.



if i get the chance, i'll check it out...

Originally posted by The Great Galen
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/2668/amazo2ot3.jpg Since flash says it is not big deal, just like how thanos says this so its no big deal http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Silversurfercreatesblackhole.jpg

when he said he wasn't going down easy? i took that to mean superman was resisting, even to a small extent, rathr than amazo having any trouble...

Mindset
What?

The Great Galen
Originally posted by Enyalus
He gets dropped in one hit. And two other times later on he also gets dropped in one shot. Against Ruin's gun he also gets dropped.

Both of those are nowhere near as powerful as the blasts SS and Photon can muster. And Amazo did not exert himself, so what you said was wrong. You're wrong. Deal with it and move on.

Yes he did, and supes was indoor but I know context is ur enemy. T-VO FTW unless u have any material to counter it.

Enyalus
Originally posted by The Great Galen
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/2668/amazo2ot3.jpg Since flash says it is not big deal, just like how thanos says this so its no big deal http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Silversurfercreatesblackhole.jpg

Galen: Does Flash or Amazo or anyone ever state that Amazo exerted himself in order to down Superman?

No.

So you're wrong. Drop it.

Anti-Monitor
Originally posted by Raoul
mcduffie's jla, which consistently lowballs superman. that's using low feats and claiming they're the standard, when they aren't.

he has too many contradictory feats, even from when he wasn't as powerful as he is now.



And? this does not get over turned just because you guys dont like it.

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