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Both of their weakest forms against each other. Who wins?

juggy

Joe fixit

Juggs weakest form was probably when he split his power with black tom

Originally posted by rotiart
Joe fixit

Juggs weakest form was probably when he split his power with black tom

Naw I was talking about his whole Excalibur version. Cain after he turned on Cyttorak. The version that got owned by WWH.

Fixit ftw, the Wrecker could have beaten that version of Cain.

Originally posted by Stoic
Fixit ftw, the Wrecker could have beaten that version of Cain.

Wrecking Crew did beat that version of Cain.

Current Fixit got beaten by Ms. Marvel. I think Juggy takes it.

But you act like ms marvel is a slouch... She's above wrecking crew IMO

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Current Fixit got beaten by Ms. Marvel. I think Juggy takes it.

joe wasn't beat by carol

Originally posted by guy222
joe wasn't beat by carol

It depends on how you look at it. In my opinion, he was. Joe faded and Savage Hulk appeared.

Think about Sentry vs. WWH battle - who won? No one, it was a stalemate. It was Bruce who's defeated Bob.

Joe looked like crap against Carol imo. Juggy might have done the same or worse.

Cain was running at less power than Mr. Hyde... Fixit would dust his ass, and to add to this Fixit still has his strength amping, and healing factor while Cain was getting bruised by the Wrecking Crew.

This would be interesting for about 2-3 minutes tops.

Juggernaut beat Rhino who beat Grey Hulk.....

ABC logic at it's best son.

Imposternuat does have some durability feats to give him a win here.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Imposternuat does have some durability feats to give him a win here. Well Rhino was able to gore him. What feats does he have?

Charging right through a huge optic blast and an ice barrage simultaneously by Dark cyclops and Iceman.

Beat two different potential avatars of Cyttorak.

Those are two off the top of my head.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Charging right through a huge optic blast and an ice barrage simultaneously by Dark cyclops and Iceman.

Beat two different potential avatars of Cyttorak.

Those are two off the top of my head. Those are pretty cool feats.

How strong do you think he was when he was depowered?

Strength wise, I would put im around 75-90 tons. he still had some durability, like he also got hit by a double decker bus and took no damage or recoil, but his strength and overall feats fail in comparison to classic/current Cain.

Originally posted by Stoic
Cain was running at less power than Mr. Hyde... Fixit would dust his ass, and to add to this Fixit still has his strength amping, and healing factor while Cain was getting bruised by the Wrecking Crew.

This would be interesting for about 2-3 minutes tops.

False. He was still right around the 100 ton mark.

Originally posted by rotiart
But you act like ms marvel is a slouch... She's above wrecking crew IMO

lmao, suuuure.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
lmao, suuuure.

have you ever read a comic?magic 8ball says no.

Fixit beat Creel. and the Super Skrull... I guess that this would depend on a persons opinion, but as I said before Cain was losing power, while Fixit still has a healing factor, and can potentially become as strong as any green hued Hulk.

Cain in his depowered state loses this, and was measured to be less powerful than Colossus... this of course was before he fought WWHulk, Captain Brittain noticed a steady drop in Cains power level, and he's listed as an 85 tonner.

The Wrecking Crew nearly killed him as well. I truly believe that when he took his beatdown from WWHulk that he was running at about Mr. Hydes level, because he certainly was no match for even Captain Britain who was able to toss him around.

Originally posted by Stoic
Cain in his depowered state loses this, and was measured to be less powerful than Colossus... this of course was before he fought WWHulk, Captain Brittain noticed a steady drop in Cains power level, and he's listed as an 85 tonner.

They said it was barely at Colossus level when Cain started to struggle. But he kept asking for more.

I'd say he was still right around the 100 ton mark.

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/959/xmen1572004angrybadgerdpv7.th.jpghttp://img372.imageshack.us/img372/2435/xmen1572004angrybadgerddj8.th.jpg

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
They said it was barely at Colossus level when Cain started to struggle. But he kept asking for more.

I'd say he was still right around the 100 ton mark.

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/959/xmen1572004angrybadgerdpv7.th.jpghttp://img372.imageshack.us/img372/2435/xmen1572004angrybadgerddj8.th.jpg

That was then, Captain Brittain noticed a further drop in Cains power level several months later... he also threw him around, while they sparred, I don't have scans, because it was something I saw while browsing a book store, but it did happen.

I have the issue, New Excaliber. He wasn't throwing him around.

Britain would definetly notice a drop in power since their first meeting when Juggernaut punched so hard hew flew a few miles away. Brit hanging with him at that point would seem like a depowerment.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
They said it was barely at Colossus level when Cain started to struggle. But he kept asking for more.

I'd say he was still right around the 100 ton mark.

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/959/xmen1572004angrybadgerdpv7.th.jpghttp://img372.imageshack.us/img372/2435/xmen1572004angrybadgerddj8.th.jpg Actually they said he wasn't at Colossus' level yet. To me that shows he was weaker than Colossus.

Originally posted by Nestical
have you ever read a comic?magic 8ball says no.

Du you know how strong the Wrecking Crew actually is? Even when Wrecker's dividing his power to all of them they've still got impressive durability and around 50-70 ton strength. Carol's got what? 60 ton strength and energy absorption/discharge? I'd like to see her take on a fully powered Wrecker.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Du you know how strong the Wrecking Crew actually is? Even when Wrecker's dividing his power to all of them they've still got impressive durability and around 50-70 ton strength. Carol's got what? 60 ton strength and energy absorption/discharge? I'd like to see her take on a fully powered Wrecker.

Are you sure about that? I thought the Crew was 15 ton strength when the Wrecker divided the power, you should check up on that, because Spiderman clearly gave Bulldozer a hell of a hard time when they fought a while back.

Originally posted by Stoic
Are you sure about that? I thought the Crew was 15 ton strength when the Wrecker divided the power, you should check up on that, because Spiderman clearly gave Bulldozer a hell of a hard time when they fought a while back.

Yeah, in secret wars.....which was full of PIS.

Wrecker is easily class 100 on his own, I don't see how splitting his power 4 ways would tune them all down to a class 15.

Originally posted by Stoic
Are you sure about that? I thought the Crew was 15 ton strength when the Wrecker divided the power, you should check up on that, because Spiderman clearly gave Bulldozer a hell of a hard time when they fought a while back. Uh, no.

Where did you get they were 15ton?

Originally posted by Stoic
Are you sure about that? I thought the Crew was 15 ton strength when the Wrecker divided the power, you should check up on that, because Spiderman clearly gave Bulldozer a hell of a hard time when they fought a while back.

Wrecker currently keeps his full power while sharing it with the crew.

Officially the Crew is all 10 ton when divided power. Wrecker full power is 40 tons.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Juggernaut beat Rhino who beat Grey Hulk.....

ABC logic at it's best son.

UH....when did Rhino beat Grey Hulk

Originally posted by BUSTER1
UH....when did Rhino beat Grey Hulk Hulk #378 or so.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Officially the Crew is all 10 ton when divided power. Wrecker full power is 40 tons.

That's a joke.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
That's a joke. It's no joke, it's how Marvel ranks them.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Hulk #378 or so.

That was a story Rick Jones made up, for some kids in hospital, while Sampson was merging Banner's personalities. At the end of the issue one of the kids kicks Rick in the shin for insulting their intelligence, with what was obviously a made up story.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
That was a story Rick Jones made up, for some kids in hospital, while Sampson was merging Banner's personalities. At the end of the issue one of the kids kicks Rick in the shin for insulting their intelligence, with what was obviously a made up story. There was no evidence to suggest that the story didn't happen son. Even at leaderslair they gave Rhino the win.

Depowered Juggernaut did fare pretty well against Sasquatch.....

Originally posted by snoopdogg
It's no joke, it's how Marvel ranks them.

It's still a joke.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
It's still a joke. Well it's not very funny because I'm not laughing.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Well it's not very funny because I'm not laughing.

You on the other hand, are quite funny.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
There was no evidence to suggest that the story didn't happen son. Even at leaderslair they gave Rhino the win.

Believe me, son, it was a made up story-where is your evidence that it wasn't?

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Believe me, son, it was a made up story-where is your evidence that it wasn't? The same place yours is son. Go to Leaderslair and read the issue summary. I'll take their word over yours, but that's just me. You do as you will.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
There was no evidence to suggest that the story didn't happen son. Even at leaderslair they gave Rhino the win.
The story ended with Hulk and Rhino acting as Santa and oneof his elves for the kids' sake in a kind of old-school Christmas special sort of way.

I'd take it with a grain a of salt.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
You on the other hand, are quite funny. So in your view, how strong are they while sharing?

Originally posted by Accel
The story ended with Hulk and Rhino acting as Santa and oneof his elves for the kids' sake in a kind of old-school Christmas special sort of way.

I'd take it with a grain a of salt. Does it help that the Marvel handbook referenced the fight?

I never paid attention to the handbooks so not really, no.

Originally posted by Accel
I never paid attention to the handbooks so not really, no. Well, I think the editors at Marvel consider the events to have occured in Rhino's history to be cannon.

Originally posted by Rhinoceros
Depowered Juggernaut did fare pretty well against Sasquatch.....

Depowered Juggernaut was never on a stable power level, he was like a balloon with a slow leak, and continued to lose power.

At the time when WWHulk slaughtered him he was running at about Mr. Hydes power level maybe even lower. As proof for my estimation, I am taking his beating at the hands of the Wrecking Crew as proof... it's really the only solid evidence to prove how strong he was at the moment that WWHulk kicked the shyt out of him.

All the same he (Cain) wouldn't be strong enough to beat Joe Fixit who was able to defeat a true class 100 when he put the hurt on the Absorbing Man, and the Super Skrull.

Fixit would win this no matter what.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Well, I think the editors at Marvel consider the events to have occured in Rhino's history to be cannon.

Do you have any scans on Rhino beating Joe Fixit? It would be the first time because the Gray/Green Hulk in classic days beat the Rhino every time they faced off... it was more difficult than it is today, but it happened all the same.

I'd love to check out some scans on their fight though... not to prove anything just out of pure curiosity.

Originally posted by Stoic
Depowered Juggernaut was never on a stable power level, he was like a balloon with a slow leak, and continued to lose power.

At the time when WWHulk slaughtered him he was running at about Mr. Hydes power level maybe even lower. As proof for my estimation, I am taking his beating at the hands of the Wrecking Crew as proof... it's really the only solid evidence to prove how strong he was at the moment that WWHulk kicked the shyt out of him.

All the same he (Cain) wouldn't be strong enough to beat Joe Fixit who was able to defeat a true class 100 when he put the hurt on the Absorbing Man, and the Super Skrull.

Fixit would win this no matter what.

Mr.Hyde is like a class 40 or 60 and that statement is purely speculation.

WWH would've killed him..

Originally posted by Stoic
At the time when WWHulk slaughtered him he was running at about Mr. Hydes power level maybe even lower. As proof for my estimation, I am taking his beating at the hands of the Wrecking Crew as proof... it's really the only solid evidence to prove how strong he was at the moment that WWHulk kicked the shyt out of him.

Based on? Oh and the Wrecking Crew have one-shooted Savage Hulk before. He's not exactally Hyde level now is he?

Originally posted by -K-M-
Based on? Oh and the Wrecking Crew have one-shooted Savage Hulk before. He's not exactally Hyde level now is he?

Based on The Absorbing Man who has always been classified as being stronger than than any one individual in the Wrecking Crew. Based on the fact that every incarnation of the Hulk has always been able to increase in strength. Hyde isn't exactly a pencil neck, and as Snoop pointed out the Wrecker at full power was classified as being in the 40 ton range and when power sharing the rest of the Crew was in the 10 ton range. Hyde was classified as being a class 50.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Mr.Hyde is like a class 40 or 60 and that statement is purely speculation.

WWH would've killed him..

Juggernaut continued to lose more and more power as time went on, I believe it was stated that he was in Excalibur, and so he chose to go on a quest to regain his power so that he wouldn't lose more.

Are you saying that the depowered Juggernaut that could not heal from getting injured, couldn't lift anywhere near what Colossus can, could beat Joe Fixit when he can increase in strength, durability, and heal himself?

Originally posted by Stoic
Based on The Absorbing Man who has always been classified as being stronger than than any one individual in the Wrecking Crew. Based on the fact that every incarnation of the Hulk has always been able to increase in strength. Hyde isn't exactly a pencil neck, and as Snoop pointed out the Wrecker at full power was classified as being in the 40 ton range and when power sharing the rest of the Crew was in the 10 ton range. Hyde was classified as being a class 50.

Absorbing Man varies depending on the substance he assimilates, bad comparssion. That's nice, and different versions of the Crew were stronger or weaker as well. You do know even the Wrecker has strength feats that put him over class 40 right? Are you familar with their feats?

If were going by handbooks, which you seem to be even depowered Juggernaut was still said to be class 100, not Mr.Hyde level

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Actually they said he wasn't at Colossus' level yet. To me that shows he was weaker than Colossus.

No, it shows he wasn't at Colossus level yet when he asked to crank it up.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
No, it shows he wasn't at Colossus level yet when he asked to crank it up. That's called denial. Juggy was too pridefull at first to admitt he's weaker. And by the look on his face he wasn't gonna make the lift.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
That's called denial. Juggy was too pridefull at first to admitt he's weaker. And by the look on his face he wasn't gonna make the lift.

But you don't actually know how it went.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
But you don't actually know how it went. The power went off. And by the look on his face and the fact he still had more weight to go suggests that he was in deep sh!t. Do you actually believe Juggy would admitt Colossus was stronger?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
That's called denial. Juggy was too pridefull at first to admitt he's weaker. And by the look on his face he wasn't gonna make the lift.



It's not like he was completely struggling. He was still holding the weight when he asked them to crank it up.

I don't know why that's hard for you to grasp.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33


It's not like he was completely struggling. He was still holding the weight when he asked them to crank it up.

I don't know why that's hard for you to grasp. There was veins popping out of his body, sweat dripping off his face, gritting his teeth, and his body was trembling from the stress of the weight. Afre assuming that Juggernaut was gonna get to Colossus' level?

How do you know Colossus didn't look like that at that level?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
The power went off. And by the look on his face and the fact he still had more weight to go suggests that he was in deep sh!t. Do you actually believe Juggy would admitt Colossus was stronger?

I think he would have made it easily.

He did admit that Iceman was more powerful.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
How do you know Colossus didn't look like that at that level? Have you ever lifted weights? That looks like a max lift to me. When I bench 80% of my max I do not do what Cain was doing in that scan.

Oh, and BTW Cain was yelling in huge red text "NGGH!" He was struggling.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Have you ever lifted weights? That looks like a max lift to me. When I bench 80% of my max I do not do what Cain was doing in that scan.

I lift weights all the time. When I'm at my max I don't ask for more weight.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
I lift weights all the time. When I'm at my max I don't ask for more weight. Like I said Cain wasn't gonna admitt Colossus was stronger. He was in denial.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Like I said Cain wasn't gonna admitt Colossus was stronger. He was in denial.

Great theory, if true.

Too bad you don't really have anything to support your speculation.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Great theory, if true.

Too bad you don't really have anything to support your speculation. It's called common sense. Juggernaut for how many years was this unbeatable bad@ss motherf*cker, then all of a sudden......... he's not.

BTW what do you and knowbleed get from those scans?

I get that he's not nearly as strong as he once was but still stronger enough to sweep aside Rhino (Who beat Fixit)and Mammomax with ease and hang in with 3 members of Alpha Flight wearing Hulkbuster armor.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
It's called common sense. Juggernaut for how many years was this unbeatable bad@ss motherf*cker, then all of a sudden......... he's not.

BTW what do you and knowbleed get from those scans?

It's not common sense to assume that someone who's been recently weakened is in denial.

I try not to base an entire argument off one scan. Cain was struggling and asked for more.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
I lift weights all the time. When I'm at my max I don't ask for more weight. lol

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Officially the Crew is all 10 ton when divided power. Wrecker full power is 40 tons. lulz

Originally posted by I'm Bran
The great thing about robbing a fat guy is the easy getaway

He can't really chase you.

What if he starts rolling towards you?

When Cain is depowered he had alot of mixed showings. One moment he can't lift Colossus's max, the next he is powering through a evil Cyclops, Jean and Icemans powers. It could make some sense due to the recent retcon that Cy doesn't limit his powers. In the lifting scene, he wasn't really doing much. But in the Evil X-men fight he wanted to trash them and beat the crap outta them.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
He can't really chase you. Forge.

There are two very important reason why Joe Fixit would defeat the Juggernaut in his depowered state.

1. Joe can increase his strength, and durability. In his depowered form, the Juggernaut could not increase his strength, and he was hardly invulnerable, just tough.

2. Joe has a healing factor greater than depowered Juggernauts, as seen when he was being mauled by the Wrecking Crew.

These are very good reasons why Fixit would win. I'll take the time to change my first opinion on this being a cake walk for Fixit, he'd have a tough time, but he would win all the same. Why? As Cain became worn, battered, and bruised, Fixit would be stitching himself up as the seconds went by... he'd be nearly as fresh as when the fight began Cain wouldn't be.