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http://www.robheller.com/images/blog/illidan_final.png

http://img37.picoodle.com/img/img37/8/6/26/f_sephiroth8jm_be34ab9.jpg

now if you mean the illidan before he became demon form....no never mind sephiroth wins this

Sephiroth 8/10

Badass pic of Illidan btw

illidan wins

Originally posted by Phanteros
illidan wins

this isn't even a fight for illidan

Originally posted by Phanteros
illidan wins


How

Majik.

How else? dur

he can shoot beams of shadow and fire from his hands, was a master spellcaster even in the eyes of the elves and now he has his powers enhanced by those of the Warlock Gul'dan and I tihnk even Kiljaeden. He would canonically have access to the Mage spell list in warcraft aside from his abilities shown as well.

Hes also damn fast.

Illidan..he's a master spellcaster and that twin blade of azzinoth is badass..

It's not like Sephiroth has no magic

Originally posted by Burning thought
he can shoot beams of shadow and fire from his hands, was a master spellcaster even in the eyes of the elves and now he has his powers enhanced by those of the Warlock Gul'dan and I tihnk even Kiljaeden. He would canonically have access to the Mage spell list in warcraft aside from his abilities shown as well.

Hes also damn fast.


And what feats does said shadow and fire have?

Because nothing I've seen from him can defeat Seph.

Originally posted by King-Fingolfin
And what feats does said shadow and fire have?

Because nothing I've seen from him can defeat Seph.
he will pwn seph ass with the shadow consumption

The pic of Illidan reminds me of Spawn.

Originally posted by Phanteros
he will pwn seph ass with the shadow consumption

And Sephiroth will pwn Illidan by ripping him apart with TK




c wut i did thar?

They dont need feats to kill Sephiroth, because hes got no durability feats worth mentioning, if any at all. Illidan can destroy him damn quickly, he could also transform him into a sheep with polymorph

Sephiroth just needs to look at Illidan, and pop his head off


Sephiroth is immune to shapeshifting attacks like that

When has he done that?

wheres this said?

When he was toying with the FF7 Party. They said it felt like their bodies were being ripped apart, and that was him toying with them.

Plus he brought down the top of the Shinra Building by looking at it.


He can't be affected by Transform Materia, which is the same thing as Polymorph.

No, I remember the dog thing simply saying his tail felt like it was being ripped off, that doesnt mean he can burst anyones head with one look.

pff, so the fans say, thing is ive not seen a single shred of proof, in a city thats busted up enough and is falling apart anyway, assuming he destroyed the Shinra building with TK just because he happened to look up at the time of it falling is a little far fetched. Is there any official script that says he Tked it down?

But when? if your talking about in-game then it could just be a game mechanic....

Everyone felt like that. He didn't choose Red specifically out of the bunch. Infact, he would have chose Cloud over anyone.

The fact that neither Cloud nor Sephiroth touched the top of Shinra Tower, where it collapsed, disproves your theory, as well as nothing else was falling apart before Cloud and Sephiroth began fighting. Infact, the only part where anything fell apart was when Sephiroth brought down the tower.


No, it isn't. A game-mechanic would be like in the flashback, Sephiroth can't be damaged at all. When Sephiroth displays an immunity to a spell, it's not a mechanic.

BUt he didnt actually rip any body parts off of anyone?

The whole city was being attacked by the negative lifestream and was in a bad way anyway, the place was very badly damaged. Regardless, thats still not to assume Sephiroth used any kind of TK, all he did was look up...thats it....

ofc its a mechanic, if its in the gameplay..then its in the gameplay....does your information come from players using spells on Sephiroth or an actual cinematic? if its cinematic then please show me the evidence.

He was toying with them. He could have easily ripped them apart, but, being the overconfident person he is, let them live.

There are other people in fiction that use TK by looking at them

I don't feel like going on youtube and spending an hour looking for a video uhuh

But nothing can prove that he can destroy beings using his apprent TK, toying around with them doesnt mean he can destroy anyone using TK. I can toy around with a bar of steel, tapping it, rolling it etc, but if I put my full strength into trying to break it I could never do it.


There probably are, thing is most of them likely have much better ways of showing them doing it, or more obvious actions. If its a comic it is likely said, if its a video game its usually shown by a diffrent graphic. Sephiroth showed nothing more than "looking" up.

fine....then your case is not proven for the while

Except for the fact that when he looked up, the top of the tower collapsed

sephiroth could easily pop someones head off. Pretty much anyone who has tk can.

Originally posted by k1Lla441
sephiroth could easily pop someones head off. Pretty much anyone who has tk can.


no....I disagree, for example Kain can lift up human bodies with ease, but he cant tear someones head off, never has. Same with a lot of characters who use TK, having enough force to lift up someone and having enough force to destroy a piece of their body is very diffrent.

Originally posted by King-Fingolfin
Except for the fact that when he looked up, the top of the tower collapsed


That can be expalined for many reasons, perhaps he simply heard it breaking and shattering above him and looked up just as it started to break away from the tower? this "coincidence" could likely be the reason.

BT, if you think the Shinra tower fell for no reason(and Sephiroth made a gesture towards it when it fell, he didn't just look up), then GTFO, would you kindly?

erm no, show me evidence please dear one...

and show me this gesture, I dont remember any gesture...was it a gesture that was undeniably a Telekinetic conjure?

And I didnt say it fell for "no" reason did I? no...

Bioshock quote failure.

Well, you can see Sephiroth clench his fist like he's drying to crush something in it, then he says something like "Get on your knees, beg for forgiveness", looks up and the top of the building falls down.

Seriously, coincidences like that just don't really happen in video games/movies. Not to say that it would have taken Sephiroth a lot of telekinetic power to bring it down considering the building was in a such a sorry state in the first place. Screw with a seam or two and it all goes crashing.

So you are admitting the building was in a sorry state? I mean seriously, anyone who has seen the film, the building is not in a good condition at all. Assuming him looking up actually brought the roof down and not the other way around (the roof coming down made him look up) is ludicrious without hard evidence. It was far from obvious that Sephiroth used TK at that moment, for all we know he heard it was cracking and breaking away and said that line to taunt Cloud as the debris was about to apprently smash him.

What's to admit, it's pretty obvious that the whole place was all screwed up.

Of course the building(hell, the city) is in a shit state, but to make such a claim as it just fell for the sake of falling, or saying that it was not clear that Sephiroth brought it down, well, that would make you an idiot now wouldn't it?

no that would make you an assumption loving idiot with no real proof if you assumed it was Sephiroth pulling down the building even though the thing was badly damaged anyway just because sephiroth looked up...

Maybe not time something falls ill blame myself or someone nearby for "looking" at it because TGE thinks Id be stupid to think it fell becaue of physical causes. The building and the whole city was fvucked up, simple....theres no reason to belive just because Sephiroth looked up that he TKed and could not hear it breaking away, knew it was about ot break or used some super soldier senses to predict its damage. A piece of building of that size doesnt even come close to falling without nobody noticing, the sounds it would make and its overall state would be obvious to a normal human, let alone super/enhanced.

Not really, since it began breaking away after he looked at it

Can you prove this? it may have completly smashed off until he looked up at it, but the actual damage to the construction and the breaking of the buildings support up the top there could have broken long before the whole building top crashed down. When the Titanic split in two pieces, the first time anyone heard notice of it about to happen isnt when it was in two bits, its the incredible creaking and sound of tension that happenis beforehand. Now this is normal humans, now if Sephiorth has enhanced senses, he would have sensed the supports breaking before even then.

The proof he used some sort of TK is zero, its simply an inconclusive assumption, nothing actually states and theres no bullet hard evidence that he did so, him looking up as the piece falls is not good enough.

You can't prove anymore that the building just "happened" to collapse conveniently during Sephiroth and Clouds battle.

http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=22917
some of illidan's magic capabilities

http://www.wowwiki.com/Illidan_Stormrage more info about him.

I'M GOING TO HAVE TO ASK FOR PROOF OF ILLIDAN'S SPELLS BEING USED IN A CINEMATIC, OR IN THE ACTUAL STORY, OR FOR ALL I KNOW, IT'S ALL GAMEPLAY!


...


131 c wut i did thar?


Nah, but here are some of Sephiroth's spells

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_Materia

Originally posted by King-Fingolfin
I'M GOING TO HAVE TO ASK FOR PROOF OF ILLIDAN'S SPELLS BEING USED IN A CINEMATIC, OR IN THE ACTUAL STORY, OR FOR ALL I KNOW, IT'S ALL GAMEPLAY!


...


131 c wut i did thar?


Nah, but here are some of Sephiroth's spells

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_Materia

during the game you fight with the person that takes him down which counts since it being mmoRpg they won't show cinematics of the quest.
so it counts unlike sephiroth's moves.

Originally posted by Phanteros
during the game you fight with the person that takes him down which counts since it being mmoRpg they won't show cinematics of the quest.
so it counts unlike sephiroth's moves. I lol at this double standard.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
I lol at this double standard.
*bows*

thanks You blizzard for being cheap a$$ bastards

Sephiroth owns a Master Magic Materia in the Flashback, which means in canon all of Sephiroth's spells are canon


I win.

Time stop = /endthread

Originally posted by King-Fingolfin
Sephiroth owns a Master Magic Materia in the Flashback, which means in canon all of Sephiroth's spells are canon


I win.

Time stop = /endthread nope because he will be shadow out before that.

there i win

Originally posted by King-Fingolfin
Sephiroth owns a Master Magic Materia in the Flashback, which means in canon all of Sephiroth's spells are canon


I win.

Time stop = /endthread does he still have it? no so no use in that since he doesn't have it there for i win.

Why Sephiroth Wins

My money is on Illidan because mainly, his magic capabilities are almost endless, and have never been matched. Hell, the guy absorbed what was thought to be pure magic, and hilariously ironic, he was blinded by the exsplosion.

You win some, you lose some I guess.

But then again, I am going on a limited knowledge on Sephiroth, and he does appear to have kicked much ass in his damn. Hmm.. this is going to bug me now.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Why Sephiroth Wins
you jackass!!

Originally posted by Phanteros
does he still have it? no so no use in that since he doesn't have it there for i win.


No.


He does however have the source of all the magic in the FF7 universe, which is even better

Originally posted by King-Fingolfin
No.


He does however have the source of all the magic in the FF7 universe, which is even better




show me him doing it then. like yu yu hakasho i will not accept hyperbole.

What did I say that was hyperbole

And also to point out, Sephiroth can just wrap himself with the Nega-Lifestream, which would make him virtually untouchable by Illidan.

prove he can do that..
how long would it take him?
would the nega lifestream actually provide any kind of resistance against someone like illidan?

Seeing as how the lifestream managed to dissolve a giant meteor that a spell that was stated to be able to destroy anything evil couldn't, in seconds.....

Yes


And he summoned the Nega-Lifestream with a hand gesture.

Originally posted by King-Fingolfin
Seeing as how the lifestream managed to dissolve a giant meteor that a spell that was stated to be able to destroy anything evil couldn't, in seconds.....

Yes


And he summoned the Nega-Lifestream with a hand gesture.

holy is what dissolve the meteor not the life stream you fail. also life stream doesn't apply to every planet and since the op didn't specify i will assume it this is regular earth. and since when did he sheild him self with life stream anyway? and it became a sheild?

and only cetra can sommon holy not sephiroth.

No. Holy tried to dissolve Meteor, but it was too late, so the Lifestream had to act to save the planet. Watch the ending again.

The Nega-Lifestream is Sephiroth's weapon, so ofc it's granted to him.

He can just wrap it around him

If Illidan touched it, he would be dissolved.

Originally posted by King-Fingolfin
No. Holy tried to dissolve Meteor, but it was too late, so the Lifestream had to act to save the planet. Watch the ending again.

The Nega-Lifestream is Sephiroth's weapon, so ofc it's granted to him.

He can just wrap it around him

If Illidan touched it, he would be dissolved. no ut wasn't it finished the job. and plus it since when did he use it for a weapon?

only if the life stream sees someone as a threat plus this takes place on regular earth possibly and we don't know if illidan will be affected by it.

how long can it stay in the surface? not long perhaps.

o_jwZhIlb7c

5:20 Meteor pushed through Holy
6:04 Red says It's too late for Holy, and infact, Holy is helping Meteor
6:39 That is the lifestream
8:35 Lifestream dissolved Meteor


I win. All your base are belong to us.

The Nega-Lifestream is Sephiroth's weapon. It is under his complete control. Which means he can use it to kill Illidan.

has he killed anyone with it? no plus it's place defendant. i say shadowed before he can do it anyway

however i think this is a tie

So, even though the lifestream has been shown disentegrating a giant meteor, that has way better durability then Illidan, it can't kill someone?
(btw, it has killed people. It killed Denzel's mom)

What does "shadowed" do?

Originally posted by King-Fingolfin
So, even though the lifestream has been shown disentegrating a giant meteor, that has way better durability then Illidan, it can't kill someone?
(btw, it has killed people. It killed Denzel's mom)

What does "shadowed" do? shadow is a instinst kill move that illadin does.

Instant Kill is gameplay. I guess it would instant kill Pyron then lol.


and for the record, Sephiroth has an instant kill move too. Go figure.

there is also shadow fiend which damages his foes and also place two fiends in place which will continue to damage until defeated. soul power which siphons 10,000 hp and into his hp, and rage which drastically increase his stats and his spell's potential capiblity

hp is also gameplay =|

Originally posted by King-Fingolfin
hp is also gameplay =| so... its a mmorpg so it has to be a feat since they won't show a cut scene of him doing it. anyway think we should stop debating this because all wow villians feats are only shown in gameplay since developers want to be cheapasses and not show feats in cut scene form. :/

that and its a mmorpg... go figure.

And Sephiroth's spell resistances may also very well be gameplay, according to you and BT. Go figure.



Regardless, if Illidan touches the Lifestream, he's dead. And the Lifestream covered the giant city of Midgar so......

yeah but its place dependant... this fight takes place on earth not gaia. but any way it didn't look like it was dissolving any thing now.

But the Nega-Lifestream is Sephiroth's weapon. As such, he gains it for the battle. Also, the battle takes place on neutral ground.


Watch the video again, it disentegrated meteor. Also, it completely dissolved Sephiroth when he jumped into the lifestream.

I can't remember if it was Sephiroth's lifestream or the normal lifestream, but in the On the Way to a Smile novellas we are shown that a tentacle of it can kill by passing through someone. This proves it can be used offensively as the negative stream is under Sephiroth's full control. Also, because Sephiroth has his own lifestream to control and all magic comes from the lifestream, he has access to any magic in VII's universe.

On top of this he's more powerful than Chaos, a being that can wipe all life from the largest Behemoth to the smallest blade of grass in a very short amount of time, or Omega Weiss, a being powered by the WEAPON absorbing the entirety of the lifestream. I love how some people on this board horribly underrate Sephiroth because they know nothing about him or simply hate him for being popular.

Nah hes just massively overrated by fans, the Neg lifestream alone makes him more powerful than both, from showings however he is prob slower than Omega Weiss/Chaos and less destructive than Chaos thats for sure. And also, him having all FF spells just because he can move the Neg lifestream through Jenova cells does not mean he can gain all the "materia".

Materia only grant magic because they give you a connection to the lifestream, which is the source of all magic in the VII universe. Sephiroth has his own lifestream, meaning he's got all magic available in his world. We don't know if he's as fast as OW or CV because he's never been trying in what we've seen from his best, but we do know that even before Nibelheim he could teleport, as he shows us in CC, and he is extremely quick in his combat speed, so he doesn't really have a speed disadvantage in most fights, much less this one.

Please, stop hating Sephiroth because more people have heard of him than Kain.

Then it gives a very specific and condensed link, because each materia has a diffrent power attached. Can you find the evidence for your claims? that just being able to move the neg lifestream around suddenly gives you all FF powers? Ive heard around these forums that Kadaj and co are also pure Neg lifestream..is that true? if so then surely they should have a vast connection to powers but obviously that is untrue.

As if I care about either of their popularities, but you just touched on the only reason Sephiroth is anything at all on any forum rather than just a enhanced human with a ton of fanboyish claims backing him up.

No, no, silly, each materia has a specific link top the lifestream because it is only a small part of it condensed into a crystal. Sephiroth has access to his own lifestream, he can pull off every spell in the world.

The reason Sephiroth is more than an enhanced human is because he's not just an enhanced human. He's a being that ascended to a new level of existence and is more powerful than world enders and goddesses.

Blind and baseless speculation. And he has access to its movement "silly"

No, he just has a trump card, the lifestream at his disposal which all of them are made out of, in actual destructive power most of them can beat him, in actual speed and durability, a lot of them can beat him etc etc, hes just like a kid whos got a special trick, unfortunatley for him most of the fictional world do not have any such connections to the lifestream that would make them vulerable.

Sorry, guy, but that's not what makes him the top, I don;t know why you keep trying to argue about a character you know nothing about. The creators specifically said there is nothing stronger or above him, and that they would never make a more powerful character than him in the world of FF VII. You wouldn't look so silly if you would stop talking out of your ass, no one has more power than Sephiroth in VII's world, end of story. Sorry, slick.

err excuse me, what evidence suggests something other than the Neg lifestream makes him top? he has zero feats to put him above durability, speed, physically etc etc than other characters such as Chaos, and Omega, its obvious you are the one who has no idea over the character.

Yeh and the creators are correct, with the Neg lifestream he has a trump over them...as I said....without it, he would be a pathetic whelp in the face of Chaos or the weapons.

The negative lifestream is just a fraction of his power, champ. I know you've never set eyes upon a FF VII title, but ignorance is not a good defense.

Sephiroth has shown more physical power than any other character has displayed, he's spoken of by any character who mentions him as being the most powerful thing they've ever seen, his feats, which already trump any feat shown by any other character in the compilation, are all of him using no effort, and the creators have already flat out said there is nothing more powerful than him and nothing above him, and that they'd never make anyone above him. He's the most powerful physically, mentally, magically, and in swordsmanship. The NL is just icing on the cake.

Please play at least on FF VII title before you look silly again.

Now your just bantering, I see no evidence for your claim that he has done your claimed feats....fanfictions are not canon

Sorry pal, but FF VII, AC, DoC, BC, and CC aren't fanfictions.

I see you have no more silly rebuttals left, so I'll take this as you conceding.

Now your just trolling, youve made no evidence or real argument, reported.

Knock it off, both of you.

This may shock you, but Illidan isn't from FF7. You can claim that Sephiroth is the most powerful character(not by feats, though) in FF7 all you want.

Anyway, I can't really see Illidan winning more than 2/10. He's outmatched in speed, strength, agility and mobility and probably even fighting skills. Yea, Blades of Azzinoth would be more than a match for Sephiroth's sword but the wielder wouldn't. The only way Illidan can get a win is through magic.

It still amazes me how no one ever seems to read more than a line or two from my posts mentioning Sephiroth's power. I never said Illidan was in VII so Sephiroth owns him because he > all in VII. If you were paying closer attention you'd see that my point was that if Sephiroth is more powerful than beings that wipe out all life on the planet or have access to the lifestream as all of it is being absorbed then he's not going down to Illidan.

This is for those who will debate, so not you FC

Speed: Illidan turns him into a sheep and cuts him in half, easily. Sephiroth has not shown feats much faster than Illidan, in the opening cinematic of TBC Illidan moves from the ground level of shadowmoon valley above the Clouds, anyone whos played the game knows the distance is quite extensive, take into account above Cloud level in the real world is in miles and Illidan knocks through those Clouds in less than a second, he is faster than Sephiroth.

Strength: ive seen none from Sephiroth and I cannot remember any from Illidan although judging simply by physical mass Illidan would win.

power: easily Illidan, he was a master magic user in the eyes of the Elves before his current enhancements. Take into account the Elves thrived since their excistence around the source of infnite magical energy. He has been enhanced by then by Sargeras who would wipe out FF accidently and Kiljaeden who would prob destroy it easily as well. not ot mention taking the power of one of the greatest Orc warlocks in the skull of Guldan.

Skill: tbh I wouldnt even give this to Sephiroth without discussion, from shown feats he has shown he is far more skilled but thats without taking into account Illidan is perhaps hundreds of years old and is immortal, the only reason I dont give this immeidaltey to him is because he spent 10k years in imprisonment but I think its safe to say he isnt a kid with a sword here, hes going to be especially deadly with his weapons.

Sephiroth is immune to poly morph. You're so fond of using gameplay mechanics as evidence so this holds true. And Illidan is a big lumbering oaf, Sephiroth has shown us movement too fast to be tracked and teleportation.

Sephiroth has sliced skyscrapers in half and has had his physical strength greatly enhanced even before Nibelheim. When Illidan can cut things with enough power to cause steel and concrete to burst into flames, then we'll talk.

Sephiroth has access to all magic in the FF VII world, silly. He wins the magic contest easier than Arnold beats Chris Farley in body building.

Sephiroth is one of the greatest swordsman in fiction, Illidan stands no chance in swordplay.

Just a few lies and fanboyish remarks.....so ill not answer it, if theres no one who wants to debate this topic then I guess it may as well be closed.

Well its good to see that you know when you're defeated, but you don;t have to call the source material fanboyish comments and lies. Canon is canon, I'm afraid.

Illidan is BLIND and still fights better with blades than most other warriors. No longer hindered by what he sees, he could literally hear Sephiroth's "super speed".

I will educate certain people in this thread about the abilities proved in canon that Sephiroth has and what he can do.

Now granted Sephiroth doesn't have many 'feats' however his implied strength, speed etc is HUGE. The following few paragraphs etc will inform you a bit more about his awesome power.

http://forums.thelifestream.net/advent-children/'there-is-nothing-stronger-than-sephiroth-nothing-above-him'-is-this-real/15/

Summary of quote:

In the Japanese audio commentary(sp?) it is stated that "In VII, a stronger enemy than Sephiroth can't be made".



If you would like to disprove this go ahead and watch the commentary of both english and japanese version of AC, then come back and say "Oh yeah thats right.".

Okay, so from this we know that there can't be a stronger enemy than Sephiroth in FFVII is true. Therefore: Any strength seen in any enemy in the FF VII world is in fact weaker then Sephiroth, think about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1m79XasUd0

Watch this ^ Sephiroth is stronger then the guy with two swords. Sephiroth in fact moves faster then anything I have ever seen in WoW, Sephiroth would not be hit by anything that Illidan could do, even Polymorph. (and if Polymorph is able to be used, why can't Transform materia be used on Illidan so that he turns into toad?).

Also to the people that say materia takes a super long time to do, in AC Bahumet is summoned with a throw of a hand, Therefore the cast time for Transform would be instant. (Also in the game when someone casts magic 'time' is frozen).


Sephiroth has also shown that he can fly in AC and the original game.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbwiDIy-m2Y&feature=PlayList&p=5EDE0A7C0F8A7994&playnext=1&index=58

(@ a certain person.) At about 3:50 you can see the building fall, with Sephiroth floating below it. Sephiroth kinda just stays there talking, Sephiroth then looks forward and the bit of the building falls, Sephiroth is not suprised at all...but then again he rarely is. This part of the building was not once touched by Cloud or Sephiroth, so you can come to your own conclusion. However to me it looks as if Sephiroth done it intentionally.

Youtube Video Shows a weaker Sephiroth cutting through tougher materials then what Illidan is made of. (Yes it is a training simulation. But look at the AC vid again.)

How Sephiroth wins:
Before Illidan can even think about doing anything at all, Sephiroth has already sliced him in half. Thanks for playing.

How Sephiroth wins 2:
Sephiroth plays around with Illidan for a while before bending Illidans will so that he is then controlled by Sephiroth.

How Sephiroth wins 3:
Uses a certain materia combination to come back to life and heal to full whenever he dies. (Gameplay)


Random tidbit from FF VII Ultimania (Official Source - unofficially translated):
http://au.faqs.ign.com/articles/698/698416p1.html
It's mentioned that after Sephiroth jumped into the Lifestream back in
Nibelheim, his body dissolved, but because of his powerful will , he reformed it at the Northern Crater, where his life energy and Jenova's head were washed to.

Originally posted by Shaggs
Illidan is BLIND and still fights better with blades than most other warriors. No longer hindered by what he sees, he could literally hear Sephiroth's "super speed".

In fairness, Sephiroth is a terrible fighter. He's a pathetic swordsman who just has insane physical stats. If all swordsmen in existence were equal physically he'd be very weak.

Originally posted by K1ll3r


Okay, so from this we know that there can't be a stronger enemy than Sephiroth in FFVII is true. Therefore: Any strength seen in any enemy in the FF VII world is in fact weaker then Sephiroth, think about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1m79XasUd0

Watch this ^ Sephiroth is stronger then the guy with two swords. Sephiroth in fact moves faster then anything I have ever seen in WoW, Sephiroth would not be hit by anything that Illidan could do, even Polymorph. (and if Polymorph is able to be used, why can't Transform materia be used on Illidan so that he turns into toad?).

Also to the people that say materia takes a super long time to do, in AC Bahumet is summoned with a throw of a hand, Therefore the cast time for Transform would be instant. (Also in the game when someone casts magic 'time' is frozen).



Being stronger than an opponent does not make you stronger in every area. If you belive that just because he is "stronger" than Chaos that he is also faster, more destructive etc despite no feats being shown and nothing being implied that he is more powerful in every attribute then please explain your logic.

Polymorph isnt a targeted spell, its like TK, it just affects the target, like almost all the stronger Warcraft spells. Because first Illidan has many resistances and spell shields to protect him almost all of which are created instantly, and the Polymorph spell itself is faster than FF spells from what ive seen.

No i disagree, he takes a good few seconds to be summoned just like in the games and dont assume just because summoning a weak dragon is seemingly more impressive than other lesser materia that they all take less time than that would, the fact remains is that in AC, all times he uses materia he has a fairly long chargup. Sephiroth using any kind of spell will kill him because A: Illidan would have instant spell locks and even if these do not work on FF materia uses the same way mana magic users are, we have B: Illidans spell casting and Warcraft spells in general are all so much faster.

Dont forget Illidan would have access to all the Warlock spells as well, since he consumed the powers of Guldan through his skull, Guldan was one of the most powerful Warlocks in Warcraft.

And I disagree with the speed, Illidan passing over at least 5 miles in a second is far quicker than Sephiroth....

Originally posted by Burning thought

Being stronger than an opponent does not make you stronger in every area. If you belive that just because he is "stronger" than Chaos that he is also faster, more destructive etc despite no feats being shown and nothing being implied that he is more powerful in every attribute then please explain your logic.

Polymorph isnt a targeted spell, its like TK, it just affects the target, like almost all the stronger Warcraft spells. Because first Illidan has many resistances and spell shields to protect him almost all of which are created instantly, and the Polymorph spell itself is faster than FF spells from what ive seen.

No i disagree, he takes a good few seconds to be summoned just like in the games and dont assume just because summoning a weak dragon is seemingly more impressive than other lesser materia that they all take less time than that would, the fact remains is that in AC, all times he uses materia he has a fairly long chargup. Sephiroth using any kind of spell will kill him because A: Illidan would have instant spell locks and even if these do not work on FF materia uses the same way mana magic users are, we have B: Illidans spell casting and Warcraft spells in general are all so much faster.

Dont forget Illidan would have access to all the Warlock spells as well, since he consumed the powers of Guldan through his skull, Guldan was one of the most powerful Warlocks in Warcraft.

And I disagree with the speed, Illidan passing over at least 5 miles in a second is far quicker than Sephiroth....

Polymorph is a targeted spell, with a cast time. Besides Sephiroth is Immune all status effects.

I disagree again, Kadaj shot his arm forth and it was summoned, also that is not a weak dragon, in fact that dragon could defeat Illidan itself.

Illidan has access to the spells stated by Blizzard.

Illidan is not that fast, when has he ever past over at least 5 miles in a second? Also Sephiroth has reflexes so fast that he can deflect bullets off his sword, you cannot tell me that Illidan is this fast as he is NOT, if he was he would have had an attack speed of like 0.001 on his weapons, nowhere has any Blizzard employee or any story shown that he is even close to as fast as Sephiroth. Before Illidan could think or react Sephiroth could have sliced him into a million parts. Sephiroth was a first class SOLDIER he was not a retard in handling his sword.

When a player summons or casts magic in FFVII (or an enemy for that matter) 'time' stops, so take that how you will.

Sephiroth is 'above' all enemies in FFVII, maybe read what I post.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
Polymorph is a targeted spell, with a cast time. Besides Sephiroth is Immune all status effects.

I disagree again, Kadaj shot his arm forth and it was summoned, also that is not a weak dragon, in fact that dragon could defeat Illidan itself.

Illidan has access to the spells stated by Blizzard.

Illidan is not that fast, when has he ever past over at least 5 miles in a second? Also Sephiroth has reflexes so fast that he can deflect bullets off his sword, you cannot tell me that Illidan is this fast as he is NOT, if he was he would have had an attack speed of like 0.001 on his weapons, nowhere has any Blizzard employee or any story shown that he is even close to as fast as Sephiroth. Before Illidan could think or react Sephiroth could have sliced him into a million parts. Sephiroth was a first class SOLDIER he was not a retard in handling his sword.

When a player summons or casts magic in FFVII (or an enemy for that matter) 'time' stops, so take that how you will.

Sephiroth is 'above' all enemies in FFVII, maybe read what I post.

Immune only in gameplay In that case Illidan cannot be cut because he never is in gameplay in the WoW, damage effects are not shown on the characters and hes also immune to stunning and spell locking! no....gameplay...

Well show me, ill pick it apart like I do any and all information, I remember it taking longer than that and you still did not answer my other questions of your assumptions.

Well....Illidan would have access to the powers given to him by Blizzard, their his creator afterall....

HyI4bnDCHdw

2.27, he flies from ground level through the Clouds....distance would be at least 5+ miles if youve seen WoW and Shadowmoon valley.

Show me Sephiroth dodging/deflecting bullets? oh and as the video shows, he is far quicker than a bullet.

erm an attack speed of 0.001? thats very funny, gameplay.....ofc then again are you assuming Sephiroth will stand and wait his turn? because you kno the gameplay of FF7 for one is turn based

Time does not stop, the game is just turn based...time for the enemies is pretty much always stopped until its their turn and vice versa...

Sephiroth speedblitzed Zack, who effortlessly blocked bullets.

Nothing in that video suggests he flew 5 miles in that time, there is no scale we're given, it was just a neat effect for a trailer.

Also, I love BT's glaring double standards when it comes to "just gameplay." If Sephiroth has to show something in a cutscene for it to be canon, then Kain doesn't have half the powers you claim he does, seeing as how many of them appear only in one game in game play.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Nothing in that video suggests he flew 5 miles in that time, there is no scale we're given, it was just a neat effect for a trailer.

Also, I love BT's glaring double standards when it comes to "just gameplay." If Sephiroth has to show something in a cutscene for it to be canon, then Kain doesn't have half the powers you claim he does, seeing as how many of them appear only in one game in game play.

Yes it does, hes on the ground and he reaches a level above clouds....ime just being massively underrating, it was far more than 5 miles.

There a diffrence betwene using abilities shown in a game, and using gameplay mechanics.

Originally posted by King-Fingolfin
Sephiroth speedblitzed Zack, who effortlessly blocked bullets.

Show me please? can you be sure Zack was moving at his quckest speed?

I will take Sephiroth

Originally posted by Burning thought
Immune only in gameplay In that case Illidan cannot be cut because he never is in gameplay in the WoW, damage effects are not shown on the characters and hes also immune to stunning and spell locking! no....gameplay...

Well show me, ill pick it apart like I do any and all information, I remember it taking longer than that and you still did not answer my other questions of your assumptions.

Well....Illidan would have access to the powers given to him by Blizzard, their his creator afterall....

HyI4bnDCHdw

2.27, he flies from ground level through the Clouds....distance would be at least 5+ miles if youve seen WoW and Shadowmoon valley.

Show me Sephiroth dodging/deflecting bullets? oh and as the video shows, he is far quicker than a bullet.

erm an attack speed of 0.001? thats very funny, gameplay.....ofc then again are you assuming Sephiroth will stand and wait his turn? because you kno the gameplay of FF7 for one is turn based

Time does not stop, the game is just turn based...time for the enemies is pretty much always stopped until its their turn and vice versa...

I have sources for everything in this post, if you see two points and then a source, that source covers both points.

No-one knows Sephiroths true power, but we do know he is greater then all villians \ enemies in the Final Fantasy VII series. Which gives us a basis for his true power.

In the game time does stop, game is canon. It is gameplay but it is gameplay for a reason if they didn't stop time the outcome would be the same because the wait bar would go up anyway at the end of the spell. In AC the video I linked when Kadaj summons Bahumet he flicks his hand the beam goes out (BAHUMET is summoned then) Kadaj could then run around in circles and whatnot and it wouldn't stop BAHUMET from coming. Being fully logical, the summon took 10 seconds. So I concede to the point that Summon Materia isn't instant.

source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdOx6L3H59s&feature=related

It doesn't matter that he can move 5 miles or 20 miles a second, Sephiroth is faster then either of those by instantly teleporting, or by flying faster. Yes he is faster and has more destructive power in fact more everything then Weiss Empowered and Omega Weiss.

Source:
Weiss: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fd9x3h9BikQ
Weiss: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VsmKGsxeAI
Fight with Cloud: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmBj8NmumNw

Sephiroth is faster then Illidan, prove to me Illidan can move faster then Weiss (who again is less then Sephiroth.) Weiss is moving faster then 5 miles a second while fighting. He also shows teleportation (or close to Instantly moving to a completely different place).

If Cloud (who is less then Sephiroth) could block bullets easily, and Weiss could block bullets easily (who is less then Sephiroth) then logic would dictate that Sephiroth can block bullets, without trying at ALL.

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Now5jv53Ihg

A lot of this is Moot, Sephiroth could cut through Illidan using the same technique he used destroying the Junon cannon, before Illidan could run to him or use any Spells on him.

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiDngEgoj9E

Just an FYI: Supernova doesn't destroy the universe, it is an illusion which is so real that the players take damage eqaul to a sun exploding. Show Illidan withstanding such an attack.

Source: FF VII Game, and AC + Ultimania Omega.

Another: Sephiroth can block physical attacks with just his Will, as you can see in AC fight when Sephiroth manifests physically and his sword has only got the hilt and he has stopped Cloud, the force of which bent the metal object they were standing on.

Source
Fight with cloud: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmBj8NmumNw

Another: Sephiroth can turn intangible as him and Jenova are one and the same and as long as he has Jenova cells (which he always will have), and Jenova cells have proven that they can turn Intangible.

Source: FF VII Game, and AC + Ultimania Omega.
http://au.faqs.ign.com/articles/657/657331p1.html

------------------

Has Illidan ever shown Immunity to any Materia spell?
If no Transform and Manipulate could be used, along with many others.

Can Illidan defend against attacks that can slice through super thick metal?
If no Sephiroth can make those attacks and definitely defend against them.

Has Illidan been known to move so fast he couldn't be seen?
Sephiroth by proxy can. Straight up he can Teleport.

What abilities does Illidan canonically have?


Link sources please.

I have conceded to the point that Illidan can move 5 miles per second.


Edit: Added one more source.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
I have sources for everything in this post, if you see two points and then a source, that source covers both points.

No-one knows Sephiroths true power, but we do know he is greater then all villians \ enemies in the Final Fantasy VII series. Which gives us a basis for his true power.

In the game time does stop, game is canon. It is gameplay but it is gameplay for a reason if they didn't stop time the outcome would be the same because the wait bar would go up anyway at the end of the spell. In AC the video I linked when Kadaj summons Bahumet he flicks his hand the beam goes out (BAHUMET is summoned then) Kadaj could then run around in circles and whatnot and it wouldn't stop BAHUMET from coming. Being fully logical, the summon took 10 seconds. So I concede to the point that Summon Materia isn't instant.

source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdOx6L3H59s&feature=related

It doesn't matter that he can move 5 miles or 20 miles a second, Sephiroth is faster then either of those by instantly teleporting, or by flying faster. Yes he is faster and has more destructive power in fact more everything then Weiss Empowered and Omega Weiss.

Source:
Weiss: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fd9x3h9BikQ
Weiss: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VsmKGsxeAI
Fight with Cloud: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmBj8NmumNw

Sephiroth is faster then Illidan, prove to me Illidan can move faster then Weiss (who again is less then Sephiroth.) Weiss is moving faster then 5 miles a second while fighting. He also shows teleportation (or close to Instantly moving to a completely different place).

If Cloud (who is less then Sephiroth) could block bullets easily, and Weiss could block bullets easily (who is less then Sephiroth) then logic would dictate that Sephiroth can block bullets, without trying at ALL.

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Now5jv53Ihg

A lot of this is Moot, Sephiroth could cut through Illidan using the same technique he used destroying the Junon cannon, before Illidan could run to him or use any Spells on him.

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiDngEgoj9E

Just an FYI: Supernova doesn't destroy the universe, it is an illusion which is so real that the players take damage eqaul to a sun exploding. Show Illidan withstanding such an attack.

Source: FF VII Game, and AC + Ultimania Omega.

Another: Sephiroth can block physical attacks with just his Will, as you can see in AC fight when Sephiroth manifests physically and his sword has only got the hilt and he has stopped Cloud, the force of which bent the metal object they were standing on.

Source
Fight with cloud: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmBj8NmumNw

Another: Sephiroth can turn intangible as him and Jenova are one and the same and as long as he has Jenova cells (which he always will have), and Jenova cells have proven that they can turn Intangible.

Source: FF VII Game, and AC + Ultimania Omega.
http://au.faqs.ign.com/articles/657/657331p1.html

------------------

Has Illidan ever shown Immunity to any Materia spell?
If no Transform and Manipulate could be used, along with many others.

Can Illidan defend against attacks that can slice through super thick metal?
If no Sephiroth can make those attacks and definitely defend against them.

Has Illidan been known to move so fast he couldn't be seen?
Sephiroth by proxy can. Straight up he can Teleport.

What abilities does Illidan canonically have?


Link sources please.

I have conceded to the point that Illidan can move 5 miles per second.


Edit: Added one more source.

It does not give us much basis at all, the ability to control the Negative lifestream is more than enough ot make him above in power other FF characters due to its nature.

Gameplay mechanics are not canon to a real battle like this one against Illidan, if there is no canonic description or information actually telling us that Sephiroth is immune to certain effects then we cannot assume he is just because the player cannot defeat him in gameplay with one spell.

From the beginning of the charge, the spell took about 7-10 seconds to summon the Dragon...thats too long for Sephiroth to be able to defeat Illidan. Anything that takes longer than less than a split second would be fairly useless to Sephiroth.

Illidan is a master magic user, he can also teleport, any basic mage in Warcraft, even a lowly human mage can teleport. And Sephiroth has shown nothing as fast as 5 miles per second, especially since ime more underrating the distance he covered. What proves Sephiroth is as fast as Weiss? also I disagree, Weiss moves perhaps 5-10 meters in a split second in the battle, Illidan covered 5-10 miles+ in a second is more impressive.

Thats not a good A>B>C because first Cloud>Sephiroth, as weve seen and furthermore and more importantly is that your using the fact Sephiroth is more powerful than them to give him abilities greater than them in every attribute, this is wrong because the statement merely states he is above them, not necesserily faster, stronger etc or greater in every attribute. As I said the Neg lifestream immediatley makes him greater than any of them.

Illidan is too quick to be hit by those slash waves and Illidans spells would hit Sephiroth first.

I need to actually see the canonic info that states its an illusion that allows the power of a Supernova on an opponents body, Cloud and none of his gang, nor anyone in FF are of that durability.


Immunity to materia? no but he has immunity to various spells and massive resistances. Thats a weird question, thats like asking has Sephiroth ever shown resistance to Illidans blades, obviously not but he may have done so against something equelly strong in his world, and Illidan has for the magic part, Magic in WoW is far greater than that in FF7.

info on his magic capabilities:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Illidan

Cloud is not > Sephiroth. Sephiroth has kicked Cloud's ass on every encounter, and Cloud has only ever won WITH THE UNHOLY POWERS OF PIS

This is why I can never take BT seriously when he's talking about FF characters.

It does give a basis, the power of the negative lifestream just heightens that basis.

I conceded to this point, don't continue argueing something that we agree on.

Has he canonically been shown to Teleport (you ask this very same question)

Sephiroth is faster then Weiss because nothing in FF VII is above him. But if you don't want to believe that he is as fast or faster then Weiss I won't push it, however it is proven that he can Teleport. (Anything with Jenova cells he can teleport, he has Jenova cells therfore he can teleport.)

Since I seem to have to prove everything with undeniable official sources so should you, where is it stated he has the abilities of a lowly human mage or that he can teleport. In that source it doesn't say anything about his abilities. The source says he is a gifted sorcerer with demonic powers brought on by the Skull of Gul'dan and various other demonic power increase brought on by Kil'jaeden or Sargeras, that source isn't even official and only links to one official source.

Cloud is not greater then Sephiroth, read FFVII Ultimania Omega official source, Cloud only wins because Sephiroth doesn't want to admit that Cloud is not weak so he doesn't fight at full capacity.

Since they didn't specify what he is greater at then what? You could say it meant he was greater than them at buttering toast. But they just said he was greater then them.

Sephiroth is to quick to be able to be hit by Illidans physical or magical attacks. (Just mimicing you, ofcourse there is no basis for this.)

He isn't fast enough to stop lowly humans hitting him, how come he doesn't just dodge or fly out of the way of every attack? Because he isn't that fast.

Again read FFVII Ultimania omega.

So he will be damaged by a Bolt3 to the face is what you are saying here?

Magic in FFVII is far greater than that in WoW. (mimicing you again)

Originally posted by Burning thought
Cloud>Sephiroth

I was actually thinking you knew what you were talking about for once, but when I read that quote, as always, you don't know waht you are talking about. Sephiroth teleports behind Cloud, cuts his head off, the end.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
Cloud is not greater then Sephiroth, read FFVII Ultimania Omega official source, Cloud only wins because Sephiroth doesn't want to admit that Cloud is not weak so he doesn't fight at full capacity.

Someone knows what he is talking about, Seph only fought at like 10% of his all-out skill.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
It does give a basis, the power of the negative lifestream just heightens that basis.

I conceded to this point, don't continue argueing something that we agree on.

Has he canonically been shown to Teleport (you ask this very same question)

Sephiroth is faster then Weiss because nothing in FF VII is above him. But if you don't want to believe that he is as fast or faster then Weiss I won't push it, however it is proven that he can Teleport. (Anything with Jenova cells he can teleport, he has Jenova cells therfore he can teleport.)

Since I seem to have to prove everything with undeniable official sources so should you, where is it stated he has the abilities of a lowly human mage or that he can teleport. In that source it doesn't say anything about his abilities. The source says he is a gifted sorcerer with demonic powers brought on by the Skull of Gul'dan and various other demonic power increase brought on by Kil'jaeden or Sargeras, that source isn't even official and only links to one official source.

Cloud is not greater then Sephiroth, read FFVII Ultimania Omega official source, Cloud only wins because Sephiroth doesn't want to admit that Cloud is not weak so he doesn't fight at full capacity.

Since they didn't specify what he is greater at then what? You could say it meant he was greater than them at buttering toast. But they just said he was greater then them.

Sephiroth is to quick to be able to be hit by Illidans physical or magical attacks. (Just mimicing you, ofcourse there is no basis for this.)

He isn't fast enough to stop lowly humans hitting him, how come he doesn't just dodge or fly out of the way of every attack? Because he isn't that fast.

Again read FFVII Ultimania omega.

So he will be damaged by a Bolt3 to the face is what you are saying here?

Magic in FFVII is far greater than that in WoW. (mimicing you again)

As I said, neg lifestream alone= Sephiroth above all others in FF

He has the power canonically, hes not actually done it no.

erm, how is being faster than Sephiroth being above Sephiorth? you see this is your major major flaw and it goes for the same for every Sephiroth fan, you take the quote that says he is above everyone as "he is above every single attribute of every character in FF", this isnt what the quote says. And correct me if ime wrong, but isnt every soldier have a portion of Jenova cells inside of them giving them their enhancements? please provide evidence.

In the source I provided you just outlined where he was a masterful sorceror, it points it out several times, the guy wouldnt be a masterful sorceror if he couldnt even manage a teleport that the lowliest of human mages can manage now would he?

Originally posted by Ultimate Wil
I was actually thinking you knew what you were talking about for once, but when I read that quote, as always, you don't know waht you are talking about. Sephiroth teleports behind Cloud, cuts his head off, the end.


Sephiroth has no ability that he could have used on Cloud to defeat him even if he was on full power, Clouds Omnislash is beyond Sephiroth.

Originally posted by King-Fingolfin
Cloud is not > Sephiroth. Sephiroth has kicked Cloud's ass on every encounter, and Cloud has only ever won WITH THE UNHOLY POWERS OF PIS

Cloud was under PIS for not doing Omnislash right away and killing Sephiroth before he could move.

Did you just admit your assuming the whole thing? by the quote saying he is "above" or "greater" than them, I would imagine it means he could beat them, and I understand this now that hes got the Negative lifestream....their abilities are worthless compared to it.

Speed is a non factor in most of Illidans spells, some of them are instant, most of them dont require an actual projectile target, they just happen on a whim like the curses of a Warlock.

Because first few humans canonically attack him and second hes shown his incredible speed already in an actual official cinematic so if hes slower in gameplay or otherwise its obviously a gameplay mechanic.

Your telling me to actually go and find your source?.....thats like me telling you to go and play all the Warcraft games, get to level 80 and finish all boss encounters in WoW and then come back to me after youve read the Warcraft books....You wouldnt have to do that, I would have to find the source for you and you have to do the same for me.

Who will be damaged by bolt3? Sephiroth prob would, but being a master magic user Illidan would have access to vast numbers of anti-magic shielding.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Sephiroth has no ability that he could have used on Cloud to defeat him even if he was on full power, Clouds Omnislash is beyond Sephiroth.

Teleporting behind Cloud, and cutting his head off, speed blitzing Cloud, enough said.

Sephiroth>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cloud. Everyone knows that.

My first points correspond to your last points:

So Illidan can be hit by a lightning spell from a Shaman but not a lightning spell from Sephiroth? Bull. Is this gameplay mechanic? He is canonically dead. (Yes with the help of Maeiv) He was killed by 25 'Heroes' who would easily be beaten by Sephiroth, and Maeiv who lays traps. This canonically(is this a word?) happened.

Yeah he is fast, not as fast as Sephiroth (in combat). If I am assuming he is more powerful because his attributes are all higher, you are assuming it is because of the Negative Lifestream. The fact of the matter is he can beat someone with the speed of Omega Weiss or Weiss (and the power of them), so Illidans speed is useless to him, if you disagree with this even now there is nothing anyone can say or do to sway your mind. Read my first post as to why he can beat someone with the speed of Omega Weiss or Weiss. Please let me know specifically if you concede that the speed of Illidan does not matter.

If you are unable to click a link and read it as I have done with your source it shows you just have no interest actually finding out who would really win. In fact I have provided a canonical source for every point of mine. I have posted you a link to all my sources, including FFVII Ultimania Omega (English translated version). Maybe read my posts and my sources like I do with yours.

All of Illidans spells I have seen wouldn't even phase Sephiroth.

You sir do not listen to reason, I am glad you admit that Clouds Omnislash is so powerful that it beats Sephiroth. Cloud wouldn't use Omnislash straight away because he was required to be beat up a fair bit. Omnislash or 'Super Ultimate War God Champion Slash' is an incredibly destructive ability that uses Spirit Energy (A LOT of it) making it incredibly powerful which is why it defeated Sephiroth (Source: Ultimania Omega). If Sephiroth wanted to he could have ended that fight with ease, read all my links I have posted and you would know this. Cloud only wins because Sephiroth doesn't want to admit that Cloud is not weak so he doesn't fight at full capacity, stated by official source I have posted link to it go read it and stop saying this, I will now ignore things that I have proven and you still try and prove it wrong through some Illogical and completely wrong statement.

I don't know, it doesn't say anywhere he has the ability of all mages everywhere, even lowly ones. It just says he is a Masterful Sorcerer (I read Sorcerer is different somehow to Mage otherwise it would say Mage)

You take the quote and twists its meaning to be: Sephiroth is above them because of the Negative Lifestream, is one of us right? Or both of us? I know you will dispute this to your grave even though you have no evidence. One thing IS known: He is greater then all other enemies or villians in FF VII he can defeat them all one way or the other whether through speed or the Negative Lifestream, it doesn't matter.

So you admit that the Negative Lifestream alone makes Sephiroth above all other FF VII villians / enemies? However the creators didn't say it was specifically the Negative Lifestream that made him more powerful it stands to reason that there could be something else entirely that also makes him so powerful. Moot point here.

Sources for all things Sephiroth or FF VII without needing to play the game or watch the movies, the AC FAQ comes with clear and undeniable facts quoting from official source, the Ultimania Omega is translated official source.

Advent Children Plot FAQ (contains FFVII game plot and analysis)http://au.faqs.ign.com/articles/657/657331p1.html

FF VII Ultimania Omega FAQ (English): http://au.faqs.ign.com/articles/698/698416p1.html

What can Illidan do to stop Sephiroth teleporting to a distance away eqaul to half the length of his sword from Illidan pointing his sword so that the sword is within Illidans head? Teleport himself? Even If he can (which so far you have shown he can't) his teleportation wouldn't teleport him very far and he couldnt use it in quick succession.

According to you:

Illidan:
Has ALL mage abilities plus more. (I do not agree)
Has ALL warlock abilities plus more. (I do not agree)
Can travel at speeds faster then 5+ miles a second. (I have conceded this point)
Most of his spells are instant. (I concede to this point but under the condition they cannot be used instantly after one or at the same time and one can't be instantly casted any amount of times (e.g. he can't cast the same spell twice instantly)
He has rarely been attacked by humans. (I concede)
He has spell lock (Which I believe a spell lock would work on anything that uses mana or magic points.) (I do not concede he has spell lock)
He has Anti-Magic shield (I do not concede to this point)

According to me:
Sephiroth:
Sephiroth can defeat someone moving faster then the speed of light.(you have conceded to this)
Sephiroth can cast magic quicker then 5 seconds you would know this if you played the game or watched this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkFphJHi608 (you do not concede to this point)
Said magic can bring Illidan to within a hairs breadth of death or dishing out damage eqaul to the sun exploding. (you have not conceded to this)
Has killed and been attacked by many humans and has defeated them with ease. (you have conceded to this)
Sephiroth can cast magic on Illidan (You seem to think Anti-Magic shield would stop this, it would but Illidan wouldn't have this ability)


Agreed points:

Illidan:

Can fly at speeds of up to or possibly greater than (the distance between clouds and mid land in SMV) in a second. (This however doesn't prove his agility in a combat situation, it does prove he can fly that fast)
His spells are instant (With limitations such as: He cannot use his Instant spells Instantly on top of eachother, and he cannot use a spell which he just casted for a small amount of time.) - not sure if you agree with limitations.

Sephiroth:

Sephiroth can defeat a being that can move and fight at speeds that exceed light such that you can't see him move and who also has incredibly powerful and devastating attacks and durability feats, Namely this is Empowered Weiss and Omega Weiss.

Just so people will ***** at me; Illidan wins because Warcraft is more popular than Final Fantasy.

Originally posted by Burning thought




Sephiroth has no ability that he could have used on Cloud to defeat him even if he was on full power, Clouds Omnislash is beyond Sephiroth.




I hope you're kidding.


I hope to god you're kidding.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
My first points correspond to your last points:

So Illidan can be hit by a lightning spell from a Shaman but not a lightning spell from Sephiroth? Bull. Is this gameplay mechanic? He is canonically dead. (Yes with the help of Maeiv) He was killed by 25 'Heroes' who would easily be beaten by Sephiroth, and Maeiv who lays traps. This canonically(is this a word?) happened.

Yeah he is fast, not as fast as Sephiroth (in combat). If I am assuming he is more powerful because his attributes are all higher, you are assuming it is because of the Negative Lifestream. The fact of the matter is he can beat someone with the speed of Omega Weiss or Weiss (and the power of them), . Read my first post as to why he can beat someone with the speed of Omega Weiss or Weiss. Please let me know specifically if you concede that the speed of Illidan does not matter.

In fact I have provided a canonical source for every point of mine. I have posted you a link to all my sources, including FFVII Ultimania Omega (English translated version). Maybe read my posts and my sources like I do with yours.

All of Illidans spells I have seen wouldn't even phase Sephiroth.

Cloud wouldn't use Omnislash straight away because he was required to be beat up a fair bit. Omnislash or 'Super Ultimate War God Champion Slash' is an incredibly destructive ability that uses Spirit Energy (A LOT of it) making it incredibly powerful which is why it defeated Sephiroth (Source: Ultimania Omega). If Sephiroth wanted to he could have ended that fight with ease, read all my links I have posted and you would know this. Cloud only wins because Sephiroth doesn't want to admit that Cloud is not weak so he doesn't fight at full capacity, stated by official source I have posted link to it go read it and stop saying this.

I don't know, it doesn't say anywhere he has the ability of all mages everywhere, even lowly ones. It just says he is a Masterful Sorcerer (I read Sorcerer is different somehow to Mage otherwise it would say Mage)

You take the quote and twists its meaning to be: Sephiroth is above them because of the Negative Lifestream, is one of us right? Or both of us? I know you will dispute this to your grave even though you have no evidence. One thing IS known: He is greater then all other enemies or villians in FF VII he can defeat them all one way or the other whether through speed or the Negative Lifestream, it doesn't matter.

So you admit that the Negative Lifestream alone makes Sephiroth above all other FF VII villians / enemies? However the creators didn't say it was specifically the Negative Lifestream that made him more powerful it stands to reason that there could be something else entirely that also makes him so powerful. Moot point here.

Advent Children Plot FAQ (contains FFVII game plot and analysis)http://au.faqs.ign.com/articles/657/657331p1.html

FF VII Ultimania Omega FAQ (English): http://au.faqs.ign.com/articles/698/698416p1.html

What can Illidan do to stop Sephiroth teleporting to a distance away eqaul to half the length of his sword from Illidan pointing his sword so that the sword is within Illidans head? Teleport himself? Even If he can (which so far you have shown he can't) his teleportation wouldn't teleport him very far and he couldnt use it in quick succession.

According to you:

Illidan:
Has ALL mage abilities plus more. (I do not agree)
Has ALL warlock abilities plus more. (I do not agree)
Can travel at speeds faster then 5+ miles a second. (I have conceded this point)
Most of his spells are instant. (I concede to this point but under the condition they cannot be used instantly after one or at the same time and one can't be instantly casted any amount of times (e.g. he can't cast the same spell twice instantly)
He has rarely been attacked by humans. (I concede)
He has spell lock (Which I believe a spell lock would work on anything that uses mana or magic points.) (I do not concede he has spell lock)
He has Anti-Magic shield (I do not concede to this point)

According to me:
Sephiroth:
Sephiroth can defeat someone moving faster then the speed of light.(you have conceded to this)
Sephiroth can cast magic quicker then 5 seconds you would know this if you played the game or watched this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkFphJHi608 (you do not concede to this point)
Said magic can bring Illidan to within a hairs breadth of death or dishing out damage eqaul to the sun exploding. (you have not conceded to this)
Has killed and been attacked by many humans and has defeated them with ease. (you have conceded to this)
Sephiroth can cast magic on Illidan (You seem to think Anti-Magic shield would stop this, it would but Illidan wouldn't have this ability)


Agreed points:

Illidan:

Can fly at speeds of up to or possibly greater than (the distance between clouds and mid land in SMV) in a second. (This however doesn't prove his agility in a combat situation, it does prove he can fly that fast)
His spells are instant (With limitations such as: He cannot use his Instant spells Instantly on top of eachother, and he cannot use a spell which he just casted for a small amount of time.) - not sure if you agree with limitations.

Sephiroth:

Sephiroth can defeat a being that can move and fight at speeds that exceed light such that you can't see him move and who also has incredibly powerful and devastating attacks and durability feats, Namely this is Empowered Weiss and Omega Weiss.


When was he canonically hit by a lightning spell? and no, canonically he was killed by Mediev, the 25 heroes would kill Sephiroth, in what way, shape or form could he defeat hundreds of spells, most of characters can go invincible in some way or live more than once and most of them have instant spells that would tear him to pieces and make him so slow and weak with curses he could not even move. hes fast id give him a few kills due to speed but by the time hes done that he would have so many Warlock, mage, hunter curses etc etc so that he will be drained, spellless, strengthless and slow.

The negative lifestream is a wave of energy he controls that is like an embodiment of all power in the world and your telling me this is not a likely reason for him being more powerful than FF beings? all FF beings are apprently formed of the lifestream so according to Terry and SHM he should be able to infect them and control them the same way he does with the Neg lifestream thus making him superior, the wave of energy is beyond them anyway.

And no because neither of them can fly, Illidan can, both of them are also prob magically helpless, Illidan is a magic powerhouse. I think Illidans speed is enough to escape Sephiroths neg lifestream uses which are the only ways I can see him beating Weiss and others, thing is their helpless to such power because afaik their not magic powerhouses like Illidan.

Ive clicked the link but its just an enormous wall of text, at least my source has small regions that describe his powers. Can you at least take a quote and tell me the area of your document?

Wouldnt phase him? on what grounds? hes not shown any durability feats, one punch from Illidan is more than enough to probably kill Sephiroth according to durability.

Now you apprently claim your source without reference to any portion of it actually backs up Sephiroth would have beaten Cloud? that still does not give reasons why Cloud wouldnt just omnislash right away, he gained nothing (infact prob lost strength since he was stabbed) since the beginning of their battle and then he annhilated Sephiroth with Omnislash.

Similair thing, its all the same, he was a masterful spell user, he would have all of those powers by canon, hes just not got the entire class spell list in gameplay thats all..

No ime saying the Negative lifesrtream IS the only possible power he has actually shown that could beat those villains, hes shown zero feats in all other areas, so in answer to the both of these arguments, no ime not actually assuming, ime using evidence that his lifestream he controls is above them, its the only thing he has shown that could beat them, his speed and strength are pathetic and have shown zero feats, and his power is pretty feeble as well compared to most but his lifestream has a one up on them.

So you have two choices, admit youve got NO case whatsoever for your argument that him being above those characters and what power this may give him OR you can take the ONLY shown power that could possibly be above them (Neg lifestream) and use that.

Sephiroth has never teleported like that, infact ive not seen Sephiroth teleport myself but thats not how teleportation has ever worked not to mention Illidan is not going to be standing still, hes going to be constantly moving, Sephiroth would miss then end up frozen with an ice spell and dropped in a lake for a laugh.

You should concede to all of them, if you do not concede to him having all Warlock powers despite having all the power of one of the greatest Warlocks in Warcraft then thats simply denile, same with the magic user, he is a masterful magic user beyond the typical human, and as shown in Warcraft, almost every mage and his dog can teleport and cast spells of the like. Hes also enhanced by Sargeras and kiljaeden who could both easily seriously erase FF7 by themselves, obviously they did not give him all their powers but a gift from any of them would make him more than a simple user of the arts.

i think its safe to say from any point of view he is vastly superior to Sephiroth and prob any other FF7 materia user in spell casting.

He is perhaps faster as shown than most FF characters and hes not unintelligent either.

Originally posted by King-Fingolfin
I hope you're kidding.


I hope to god you're kidding.


What if ime not? your going to troll for a while and spam some faces while moaning "zomg yu obviously dunt luv sephiroth as much as me!"

Because Cloud has shown NOTHING capable of taking down Sephiroth. Omnislash is a PIS move, and Sephiroth could have just dodged the attack instead of standing there with a stupid expression on his face.

According to Terry the attack moves insanely fast, Omnishlash is a move regarldess of what labels you want to slap on it, you could call any move killing or defeating your favourite characters PIS.

Sephiroth is not my favorite character =/

And when Cloud was charging it, and waving the sword around, Sephiroth could have just jumped forward and cut Cloud's head off

When the hell did it charge and wave his sword around? Cloud could have just done it from the beginning before Sephiroth made his first attack, its fast enough and would have destroyed the shemale.

No it isn't. Omnislash requires Cloud to charge it for like 5 seconds. Go watch it again. Sephiroth had plenty of time to kill Cloud.

Sephiroth >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cloud, BT. The creators know a little bit more about their game than you do, especially considering you've never played it...

Now, give me evidence like that to support anything Illidan can or has done.

I would do more but atm I don't have time.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Sephiroth >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cloud, BT. The creators know a little bit more about their game than you do, especially considering you've never played it...


Well obviously he had met his match in Cloud, since he has been defeated on many occasion by him. And could do nothing against Omnislash, although in theory he is likely above Cloud due to Negative lifestream, in practice, its obviously not as useful as Omnislash.

Originally posted by King-Fingolfin
No it isn't. Omnislash requires Cloud to charge it for like 5 seconds. Go watch it again. Sephiroth had plenty of time to kill Cloud.


I have to go and look at one of your sources myself? thats not how debating works chum, find your source.....



K1ll3r I have not ignored you, but like youve ive not the time to spend on here atm and your post is actually worth answering with a little more time spent.

R8FHn6dKyvQ

1:05 - 1:09

Plenty of time to kill him.

With what? and its not that long, it wasnt even a charge up, he was simply spinning his sword, Omnislash doesnt even happen until the sword goes blue and the 5 blades are around Sephiroth in which he is pretty much frozen.

He could have just jumped forward and cut Cloud's head off.

and yet, he didn't!

Originally posted by King-Fingolfin
He could have just jumped forward and cut Cloud's head off.

Jumped forward right into Clouds spinning sword? good idea.......

He couldnt have done much of anything and it happened too quick for him to react

Sephiroth overpowered Cloud several times in the battle.

Hell, Sephiroth could have just TKed Cloud, and ripped his limbs off ftw.

Not if Cloud instantly did an Omnislash before he could react ftw

Except Sephiroth's TK is instanteous, whereas Cloud's omnislash isn't.

What makes you say its that fast? ive not seen it that quick, although ive seen Omnislash happen before Sephiroth could even recognise what was going on.....

He knew Cloud was going to attack. He just thought he could block it, hence why he prepared his sword. Had he known what Cloud was going to do, he wouldn't have stood there like an idiot

There was no time between it starting and finishing where Sephirtoh could have done anything, Cloud was spinning his blade in the beginning and it was only like a second before all the attack had started.

No

It was 5 seconds.


Stop denying it.

I disagree, Cloud span his sword, that was before the attack had begun, Omnislash had not begun until like 1/2 seconds later. Sephiroth was chanceless.

Seph still didn't do anything. Just saying.

Omnislash V.5 took place in the blink of an eye according to the makers.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Not if Cloud instantly did an Omnislash before he could react ftw

You never answered how Cloud can stop Seph from teleporting instantly behind Cloud, and cutting his head off, or speed blitzing him, and that is quicker than omnislash.

None of them are.

This thread isn't Seph vs Cloud.. lol. Illidan still wins.

Make a seperate thread for this of dig up an old one, I'm sure it's been done.

Already did.

dSephiroth
------------------------
Intangibility - FFVII.
Teleportation - FFVII.
Massive Speeds - FFVII AC.
Supernova - Illusion of a sun exploding. FFVII.
Massive Strength - FFVII: CC/FFVII/FFVII:AC.
Heartless Angel - FFVII.
Incredible Skill with a Sword - FFVII: CC/FFVII/FFVII:AC.
Effortlessly Deflects bullets - FFVII: AC/FFVII: CC.
Regeneration - FFVII: CC/FFVII/FFVII:AC.
Psychokinesis - FFVII
Telekinesis - FFVII/FFVII:AC.


Note: The actual known speed and strength of Sephiroth is unknown, as during the fight with cloud it is said in the Ultimania Omega that he was holding back and not trying.

Speed
------------------------
Sephiroths speed is immense(Full speed is unknown) along with his agility in combat.

Sephiroth can also teleport himself.

Strength
------------------------
I think it is pretty obvious Sephiroths strength is underrated a lot of the time, he EFFORTLESSLY cuts through 2 metre thick metal , he cuts entirely through them. The logistics of strength required to accomplish this is immense and he does it EFFORTLESSLY. The strength behind his swings is enough to cause a force that could cut through anything in its path (or at least 2 metre thick metal x 2).

Sephiroth's Sword - Masamune
------------------------
A lot of people who pitch Sephiroth against someone will say that Sephiroths sword would break on their skin, this is incorrect as his Sword is there by his Will. Pre-Nibelheim Sephiroth was able to cut through things just from the force of swinging his sword (he could be miles away from something and still cut it). In Advent Children you can see him create his sword, meaning it isn't just sharp metal it is an extension of his will.

Durability
------------------------
Sephiroth has survived massive direct Fire attacks and has come out of them with no damage done to him. Sephiroth has survived crash landing from space at the place now known as the northen crater\caves. Physical attacks on Sephiroth are near useless as the Jenova cells within him will unite when split apart, this means even when sliced through down the middle of his head, the cells will reunite. Sephiroth can turn himself Intangible so that nothing physically can hurt him. The remnants of Sephiroth are able to withstand huge explosive damage, as seen in AC.


Magical capabilities
------------------------
Sephiroth has access to everyones knowledge who has died, including the Ancients knowledge. (because of the lifestream) the Ancients created Materia and were the first ones to use it meaning Sephiroth has knowledge of all spells in FF VII. Sephiroth has shown instant cast capabilities in his Supernova and Heartless Angel spells. Using only one ability practically wiped out an entire race who created materia. Aside from the knowledge of all those dead before him he has the Negative Lifesteam. Held back Holy THE ultimate white magic. Sephiroth also wields Telekinetic powers the actual strength of this is unknown but with ease he pulled out the top of a building.

@Burning Thought
You have such a double standard when it comes to sources. So I will be the same, Illidan has never shown using any more then a handful of spells SHOW me where he uses any spells or anywhere it is STATED he can use them. Even something that says a sorceror is a Warlock and Mage put together. Prove that Illidan can do any of the things you have said just like you ask me to do.

No matter what I type you won't listen to reason.


Bibliography
------------------------
FFVII: Ultimania Omega
FFVII: Advent Children
FFVII: Crisis Core
FFVII: Advent Children FAQ with FF:VII Plot Analysis
Contrary to what you say these are sources and I have linked to them many times, it is up to you to read and\or disprove what I say. I took exact quotes from some of these
------------------------

Now with all this Sephiroth could easily slice through Illidan. Even if Illidan flew away at 20+ miles a second he could cast Heartless Angel then Supernova effectively destroying Illidan. Illidan could try slicing him but Illidan is nowhere near as good as Sephiroth in melee combat.

Anything that Illidan has cast hasn't seemed as damaging as lots of things Sephiroth has survived. Sephiroth is Pre-Nib Sephiroth + Jenova. This is stated in the Ultimania Omega.

well put man

You realize that the only reason Sephiroth is so great, is because you can make a character do anything in a game. I remember back in the good days of gaming, where a Sephiroth-esque character pissed people off for the way he was designed.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
dSephiroth
------------------------
Intangibility - FFVII.
Teleportation - FFVII.
Massive Speeds - FFVII AC.
Supernova - Illusion of a sun exploding. FFVII.
Massive Strength - FFVII: CC/FFVII/FFVII:AC.
Heartless Angel - FFVII.
Incredible Skill with a Sword - FFVII: CC/FFVII/FFVII:AC.
Effortlessly Deflects bullets - FFVII: AC/FFVII: CC.
Regeneration - FFVII: CC/FFVII/FFVII:AC.
Psychokinesis - FFVII
Telekinesis - FFVII/FFVII:AC.


Note: The actual known speed and strength of Sephiroth is unknown, as during the fight with cloud it is said in the Ultimania Omega that he was holding back and not trying.

Speed
------------------------
Sephiroths speed is immense(Full speed is unknown) along with his agility in combat.

Sephiroth can also teleport himself.

Strength
------------------------
I think it is pretty obvious Sephiroths strength is underrated a lot of the time, he EFFORTLESSLY cuts through 2 metre thick metal , he cuts entirely through them. The logistics of strength required to accomplish this is immense and he does it EFFORTLESSLY. The strength behind his swings is enough to cause a force that could cut through anything in its path (or at least 2 metre thick metal x 2).

Sephiroth's Sword - Masamune
------------------------
A lot of people who pitch Sephiroth against someone will say that Sephiroths sword would break on their skin, this is incorrect as his Sword is there by his Will. Pre-Nibelheim Sephiroth was able to cut through things just from the force of swinging his sword (he could be miles away from something and still cut it). In Advent Children you can see him create his sword, meaning it isn't just sharp metal it is an extension of his will.

Durability
------------------------
Sephiroth has survived massive direct Fire attacks and has come out of them with no damage done to him. Sephiroth has survived crash landing from space at the place now known as the northen crater\caves. Physical attacks on Sephiroth are near useless as the Jenova cells within him will unite when split apart, this means even when sliced through down the middle of his head, the cells will reunite. Sephiroth can turn himself Intangible so that nothing physically can hurt him. The remnants of Sephiroth are able to withstand huge explosive damage, as seen in AC.


Magical capabilities
------------------------
Sephiroth has access to everyones knowledge who has died, including the Ancients knowledge. (because of the lifestream) the Ancients created Materia and were the first ones to use it meaning Sephiroth has knowledge of all spells in FF VII. Sephiroth has shown instant cast capabilities in his Supernova and Heartless Angel spells. Using only one ability practically wiped out an entire race who created materia. Aside from the knowledge of all those dead before him he has the Negative Lifesteam. Held back Holy THE ultimate white magic. Sephiroth also wields Telekinetic powers the actual strength of this is unknown but with ease he pulled out the top of a building.

@Burning Thought
You have such a double standard when it comes to sources. So I will be the same, Illidan has never shown using any more then a handful of spells SHOW me where he uses any spells or anywhere it is STATED he can use them. Even something that says a sorceror is a Warlock and Mage put together. Prove that Illidan can do any of the things you have said just like you ask me to do.

No matter what I type you won't listen to reason.


Bibliography
------------------------
FFVII: Ultimania Omega
FFVII: Advent Children
FFVII: Crisis Core
FFVII: Advent Children FAQ with FF:VII Plot Analysis
Contrary to what you say these are sources and I have linked to them many times, it is up to you to read and\or disprove what I say. I took exact quotes from some of these
------------------------

Now with all this Sephiroth could easily slice through Illidan. Even if Illidan flew away at 20+ miles a second he could cast Heartless Angel then Supernova effectively destroying Illidan. Illidan could try slicing him but Illidan is nowhere near as good as Sephiroth in melee combat.

Anything that Illidan has cast hasn't seemed as damaging as lots of things Sephiroth has survived. Sephiroth is Pre-Nib Sephiroth + Jenova. This is stated in the Ultimania Omega.

Most of those powers can be ignored as something Illidan could easily bypass with a far quicker power of his own. heartless angel and Supernova are simply gameplay spells, especially heartless angel, both have very small grounds in any debate. Not that he could cast any of them, both are slower than Illidans spells.

note: then we cant assume anything and will have to take his highest feats in each area, which are below Illidan. (except maybe strength but ive not read the books)

Cutting through things can also be all down to the sharpness and power of his lifestream formed sword. Not his strength at all. Furthermore you would have to prove its strength and not a power that allows him to cause those blade beam things.

The only time I remember the remnants getting his by "huge" explosive damage is when they were pretty much dieing/dead at the end. When has Sephiroth himself actually taken any powerful hits?

having access to knowledge is not the same as being able to cast those spells themselves and no, heartless angel, the 100% gameplay spell is pretty much unusable in a debate but whats more its not instant cast, neither is Supernova.

Ive no double standard at all, can you point this out? ive shown you already Illidans spell mastery, he has all the power of the greatest warlock known=all warlock powers and was a master sorceror even in the eyes of the Elves=all mage spells, arcane, frost, fire elemnts etc.

His shadowmoon valley powers in the game would be enough to destroy sephiroth:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Illidan_Stormrage_%28tactics%29

he has there Soul devouring powers, fire, demon energy, summons etc and being within 15 yards of him will cause increasingly powerful shadow damage.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Most of those powers can be ignored as something Illidan could easily bypass with a far quicker power of his own. heartless angel and Supernova are simply gameplay spells, especially heartless angel, both have very small grounds in any debate. Not that he could cast any of them, both are slower than Illidans spells.

note: then we cant assume anything and will have to take his highest feats in each area, which are below Illidan. (except maybe strength but ive not read the books)

Cutting through things can also be all down to the sharpness and power of his lifestream formed sword. Not his strength at all. Furthermore you would have to prove its strength and not a power that allows him to cause those blade beam things.

The only time I remember the remnants getting his by "huge" explosive damage is when they were pretty much dieing/dead at the end. When has Sephiroth himself actually taken any powerful hits?

having access to knowledge is not the same as being able to cast those spells themselves and no, heartless angel, the 100% gameplay spell is pretty much unusable in a debate but whats more its not instant cast, neither is Supernova.

Ive no double standard at all, can you point this out? ive shown you already Illidans spell mastery, he has all the power of the greatest warlock known=all warlock powers and was a master sorceror even in the eyes of the Elves=all mage spells, arcane, frost, fire elemnts etc.

His shadowmoon valley powers in the game would be enough to destroy sephiroth:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Illidan_Stormrage_%28tactics%29

he has there Soul devouring powers, fire, demon energy, summons etc and being within 15 yards of him will cause increasingly powerful shadow damage.

How could he bypass it with a quicker spell? What spell? Sephiroth could have sliced off his head before he could cast some spells and could easily take all of his spells. Whoa an aura that wouldn't phase Sephiroth and where Sephiroth would just kill him when he was that close (almost). Sephiroth can take a lot of the most powerful magic in FF VII. It hasn't come down to feats, you have yet to show me anything that Illidan could do to forestall a slice in the head brought on instantly from a teleport and a slice, watch fight with cloud in AC and you see him slice entire buildings quicker then you could see, it isn't cut in half then it is sliced in half no in between it is just super quick.

He casts Supernova instantly.
He casts Heartless Angel instantly. Do not argue against me with this there is no casting it just goes.

Why would *I* have to prove that it is Strength and not Power? Niether of us can prove either one but if you want to say it is power then fine Sephiroth just slices through Illidans head with his Will. Look at him hold againts Cloud slamming into him in the first part of the fight he stands erect and doesn't have any damage but the force from Cloud landing on his sword(when it hasn't formed yet) has made him bend the metal beneath him and he wasn't hurt by it at all, it didn't affect his posture and he flung Cloud a few miles into the air several times.

It is in the game, he can do it. He has shown he can do it so he can.
Illidan cannot hit Intangible targets. (Maybe with spells although they would go straight through Sephiroth)
Remnants of Sephiroth are a larvae form of Sephiroth and are Weaker.
They were dieing from the Aeris's spell (THE RAIN).
In Crisis Core he survives a huge explosion from Genesis.

He consumed a skull getting his knowledge, according to you knowledge isn't the same as being able to do a spell. On the page you linked I see he only has Shadow and Fire spells, possibly because of the corruption into a more Demonic form?

Quote from your Wiki source on the skull of gul'dan:
The Skull of Gul'dan (written as "skull of Gul'dan" in lore) was a powerful demonic artifact created from the skull of the orc sorcerer Gul'dan. Used for a plethora of demonic activity, from opening portals to corrupting the forests of Ashenvale, its powers were finally consumed by Illidan Stormrage. Although already consumed by Illidan, the skull still holds power and is in Illidan's possession.

This doesn't say anything about knowledge, says nothing about a Warlock(Except it was a skull of a Warlock) or someone who consumes it gains all abilities of a Warlock just that they can Corrupt forests and make portals. Again he is no longer an Elf he is like an advanced Satyr with demonic powers.

Stop argueing against me with no evidence. Sephiroth can use Heartless Angel and Supernova as he has used it.

fair enough.

LOLGAMEPLAY. Like seriously can I pull that out on you?

Seriously though Illidan could run up to Sephiroth and he would be dead.

-----------------

Okay new tactic, Sephiroth reads Illidans mind and then makes Illidan think that he is Kil'Jaeden and makes Illidan do his bidding. (This was the same kind of tactic used against the Anceints except it just made them think it was a friend of theirs then infected them.) When he is doing his bidding he slices his head off.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
How could he bypass it with a quicker spell? What spell? Sephiroth could have sliced off his head before he could cast some spells and could easily take all of his spells. Whoa an aura that wouldn't phase Sephiroth and where Sephiroth would just kill him when he was that close (almost). Sephiroth can take a lot of the most powerful magic in FF VII. It hasn't come down to feats, you have yet to show me anything that Illidan could do to forestall a slice in the head brought on instantly from a teleport and a slice, watch fight with cloud in AC and you see him slice entire buildings quicker then you could see, it isn't cut in half then it is sliced in half no in between it is just super quick.

He casts Supernova instantly.
He casts Heartless Angel instantly. Do not argue against me with this there is no casting it just goes.

Why would *I* have to prove that it is Strength and not Power? Niether of us can prove either one but if you want to say it is power then fine Sephiroth just slices through Illidans head with his Will. Look at him hold againts Cloud slamming into him in the first part of the fight he stands erect and doesn't have any damage but the force from Cloud landing on his sword(when it hasn't formed yet) has made him bend the metal beneath him and he wasn't hurt by it at all, it didn't affect his posture and he flung Cloud a few miles into the air several times.

It is in the game, he can do it. He has shown he can do it so he can.
Illidan cannot hit Intangible targets. (Maybe with spells although they would go straight through Sephiroth)
Remnants of Sephiroth are a larvae form of Sephiroth and are Weaker.
They were dieing from the Aeris's spell (THE RAIN).
In Crisis Core he survives a huge explosion from Genesis.

He consumed a skull getting his knowledge, according to you knowledge isn't the same as being able to do a spell. On the page you linked I see he only has Shadow and Fire spells, possibly because of the corruption into a more Demonic form?

Quote from your Wiki source on the skull of gul'dan:
The Skull of Gul'dan (written as "skull of Gul'dan" in lore) was a powerful demonic artifact created from the skull of the orc sorcerer Gul'dan. Used for a plethora of demonic activity, from opening portals to corrupting the forests of Ashenvale, its powers were finally consumed by Illidan Stormrage. Although already consumed by Illidan, the skull still holds power and is in Illidan's possession.

This doesn't say anything about knowledge, says nothing about a Warlock(Except it was a skull of a Warlock) or someone who consumes it gains all abilities of a Warlock just that they can Corrupt forests and make portals. Again he is no longer an Elf he is like an advanced Satyr with demonic powers.

Stop argueing against me with no evidence. Sephiroth can use Heartless Angel and Supernova as he has used it.

fair enough.

LOLGAMEPLAY. Like seriously can I pull that out on you?

Seriously though Illidan could run up to Sephiroth and he would be dead.

-----------------

Okay new tactic, Sephiroth reads Illidans mind and then makes Illidan think that he is Kil'Jaeden and makes Illidan do his bidding. (This was the same kind of tactic used against the Anceints except it just made them think it was a friend of theirs then infected them.) When he is doing his bidding he slices his head off.

Wrong.

Originally posted by K1ll3r
How could he bypass it with a quicker spell? What spell? Sephiroth could have sliced off his head before he could cast some spells and could easily take all of his spells. Whoa an aura that wouldn't phase Sephiroth and where Sephiroth would just kill him when he was that close (almost). Sephiroth can take a lot of the most powerful magic in FF VII. It hasn't come down to feats, you have yet to show me anything that Illidan could do to forestall a slice in the head brought on instantly from a teleport and a slice, watch fight with cloud in AC and you see him slice entire buildings quicker then you could see, it isn't cut in half then it is sliced in half no in between it is just super quick.

He casts Supernova instantly.
He casts Heartless Angel instantly. Do not argue against me with this there is no casting it just goes.

Why would *I* have to prove that it is Strength and not Power? Niether of us can prove either one but if you want to say it is power then fine Sephiroth just slices through Illidans head with his Will. Look at him hold againts Cloud slamming into him in the first part of the fight he stands erect and doesn't have any damage but the force from Cloud landing on his sword(when it hasn't formed yet) has made him bend the metal beneath him and he wasn't hurt by it at all, it didn't affect his posture and he flung Cloud a few miles into the air several times.

It is in the game, he can do it. He has shown he can do it so he can.
Illidan cannot hit Intangible targets. (Maybe with spells although they would go straight through Sephiroth)
Remnants of Sephiroth are a larvae form of Sephiroth and are Weaker.
They were dieing from the Aeris's spell (THE RAIN).
In Crisis Core he survives a huge explosion from Genesis.

He consumed a skull getting his knowledge, according to you knowledge isn't the same as being able to do a spell. On the page you linked I see he only has Shadow and Fire spells, possibly because of the corruption into a more Demonic form?

Quote from your Wiki source on the skull of gul'dan:
The Skull of Gul'dan (written as "skull of Gul'dan" in lore) was a powerful demonic artifact created from the skull of the orc sorcerer Gul'dan. Used for a plethora of demonic activity, from opening portals to corrupting the forests of Ashenvale, its powers were finally consumed by Illidan Stormrage. Although already consumed by Illidan, the skull still holds power and is in Illidan's possession.

This doesn't say anything about knowledge, says nothing about a Warlock(Except it was a skull of a Warlock) or someone who consumes it gains all abilities of a Warlock just that they can Corrupt forests and make portals. Again he is no longer an Elf he is like an advanced Satyr with demonic powers.

Stop argueing against me with no evidence. Sephiroth can use Heartless Angel and Supernova as he has used it.

fair enough.

LOLGAMEPLAY. Like seriously can I pull that out on you?

Seriously though Illidan could run up to Sephiroth and he would be dead.

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Okay new tactic, Sephiroth reads Illidans mind and then makes Illidan think that he is Kil'Jaeden and makes Illidan do his bidding. (This was the same kind of tactic used against the Anceints except it just made them think it was a friend of theirs then infected them.) When he is doing his bidding he slices his head off.

No he couldnt have, not even close, apart from the fact he is much faster than Sephiroth by feats, Illidans spells unlike Sephiroths are mostly instant, he could use a simple spell block or an eye beam.

Wouldnt phase? show me Sephiroths durability feats

I disagree, ive had this debate before and when the fanboy posts the video of each respective move I cna usually count a few seconds before its activated but as i said, both are featless gameplay powers with zero out of gameplay mechanic.

You would have to prove its strength because its your statement. Not ot mention slicing with swords is still a sword sharpness feat, not strength.

Whats in the game?
Illidan has hundreds of spells and can take souls, instangbility or not, also the only time ive seen Sephiroth go intangible is when he moves extremely slowly through the floor.
You would have to prove each one has less durability by Sephiroths own feats, and thats not what ive read, ive read the remnants are exactley as their name implies, poritions of Sephiroth, one of which (Kadaj? or?) are his strength.

Show me the crisis core explosion

You just stated the quote, saying he gained the power from the Skull of one of the most powerful warlocks. Thats all the evidence I need....

Ive posted several pieces of evidence and youve even quoted a piece of it, stop using inconclusive FAQs made by people who dont have any idea, and youve shown very little evidence as it is, you just stated about 20 things in this post alone without evidence, all ime doing is highlighting this and using evidence ive already shown.

gameplay abilities are usuable, and I at you for being so so shortsighted, Sephiroth has never had Supernova outside gameplay events and I dont think he has even had heartless angel so dont even go there....you just lost a lot of credability.

No Illidan wouldnt run, he would fly from the sky at hundreds and hundreds of mph before Sephiroth could od anything and end up a smear on the ground from the force.

First, that wouldnt work because Illidan can see magic, Sephiroth has none the way Warcraft sees it and Kiljaeden overflows with magic, furthermore you would have to prove Sephiroth could actually make such a good deception form of Kiljaeden, considering hes tiny and not half as overbearing as the demon lord.